Removing the secrecy of an affair by its exposure is often the only "upset" necessary to end it. Frequently, merely the threat of exposure causes an affair's end, even before a BS knows it's happening.

Just as frequently, a BS who has discovered an affair hesitates to expose it, fearing shame, backlashes from the affairees, or a tougher course to recovery.

After discovery and a refusal of the affairees to end an affair, its exposure is just about the only direct action a BS can take to end it and doing so is a staple of Plan A. Yes, a love buster, but a calculated one.

I offer the following links to posts covering the prevalent methods of exposure for the benefit of BSs contemplating it.

Please add to each individual post below to offer your views or personal experiences that may contribute to the benefit of all for the specific topic, or to this post for views/experiences of general interest.

On revealing the affair to the light of day

On involving/informing the WS's family

On informing OP's spouse of the affair

On contacting the OP

On exposing a workplace affair to the employer

Good work ... like always <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ May 13, 2004, 04:09 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

My personal Experience with Exposure:

Everyone told me to do it.
I wouldn't do it...to worried it would end my M.
I finally saw no other choice and just did it.
Exposure saved my M....hands down. I wouldn't be in recovery right now if I hadn't done it.

I would not have had the courage to expose if I hadn't had the support of Mr. WAT in particular, and other's here at MB.

My H could have faced a Court Martial, that was a big reason in trying to avoid exposure. Regardless, I exposed and that was all it took to break up my H's fog.

Exposure made him face the fact that there were 2 families being destroyed here and it also brought out some pretty ugly warts in the OW.

OW has since moved on to her next victim....another married soldier in that reports to her. Go figure!

Sending you my repect and admiration WAT. You're the best!

up for Blue Note

Exposing hasn't slowed my WW down any at all but getting caught did appear to make her feel guilty, til she justified by claiming she didn't start dating OM til after separation. I have evidence that indicates otherwise. Exposing did make me feel better and I would do it again.

For the record - I should have said this from the beginning - exposure did not upset my XW's affair sufficiently for her and OM to end it.

It pretty much exposed itself, they were so blatant.

Nonetheless, exposure did contradict and clear up lies told to others by both my WS and OM which caused the end to a lot of head scratching by mutual acquaintences.

WAT

I agree with the exposure clearing up lies told to mutual aquaintences. I could see things falling into place in some of their minds. Some of our closest mutual friends have distanced themselves from both of us. I think from WW because of reality of hers lies coming to light and me because they think I have gone insane- dwelling on this crap. It is just about all I think about. WW has complained to me that some friends of hers won't speak to her anymore. Oh well, too bad so sad.

^bump^

Nice post, Wat!

Exposure? Well. . . for WH it seemed to put him in a huge depression. As each new bit of information became available I shared with family and friends. He was constantly saying,"do me a favor and don't tell everyone this or that."
My answer? I'm only telling the truth, I'm not the one living a lie.

Not sure if exposure has helped the situation. But it has certainly helped me so far.
And we are communicating more and more, so I can only hope we are heading into the right direction.
But as far as the exposure getting him to drop the OW - that didn't happen.

I have to add, that talking with OW hubby has been a tremendous help for me. And it has been good to tell WH that I know quit a bit about the OW. It seemed to demystify her all the more.
In fact, unknowingly I had info that apparently she chose not to share with WH . . . so that was pretty interesting.

up^

^bump^ This thread is so important, it should be permanently at the top! ^bump^

WAT,
Thanks for a great post! You and I have debated on this isssue in the past, but I think we are in agreement for the most part. As you know, I chose non exposure to anyone beyond my W. We are at 9 months and steadily improving. I can say that it was extremely difficult to keep this to myself. My plan A was to break contact and as long as we made progress, I kept to the plan. I have read many accounts here and in other M books. I have seen a wide range of ways to expose the A. I can say if my W had not broken all contact by the 6 month mark, I would have reevaluated non exposure. My point is you should use exposure only to break contact. There should be no other reason.

Every situation is different and it s/b evaluated on a case by case basis. I was really trying to protect my family and do what was best for them and my W. Also, I have seen where family and friends may even discourage you from saving your M, so I would say tell those who will help you save your M. You should really think through exposure and definately use it when all else fails. I really think it finally comes down to the WS choosing to end contact.

I know 9 months is not a recovery, but my W is responding more and more each day. I can say now it was worth the pain b/c my children and extended family will not be hurt by the A. I can say my dependance on God grew immeasurably and I really learnd alot about myself. I owe my resolve to God and the poeple on this site.

Thanks again WAT,
Christ's Love,
Roman121

^

WAT- you are a full service member of MB.

Thanks
KY

Exposure to me that my BF was married would have meant that if I had to keep seeing him (which I doubt very much) I would not have let him into my daughters life, my brothers and sisters would not have welcomed into our family, my friends, neighbors, people at my company would not have thought he was the best thing that ever blew into town. My relationship would not have ripped my and my daughters life apart. The relationship would not have been able to go that far. My daughters father would most definitely have got a court order to keep my dauther away from him
(and him and his now wife would not have given him christmas presents).

Everyone who has an affair with a married person is not slime of the earth. Maybe most are but you just might be one of the lucky ones whose spouse is actually messing around with someone who does care about the sanctity of marriage.

A short note, message on my answering machine, a call from a friend of the wife - just to say this is my husband and I am going to fight for him. It doesn't have to be a conversation.

For what it's worth...
Weaver

^

^

^

Bump!

Hey WAT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

^

what a marvellous resource this thread is. Thanks you all.

^

I've never done the message board thing before so please be patient with me. Hope I'm posting where I'm supposed to.
I need help! I think I'm going crazy. I'm not sure if my husband is having an affair or not. There are some signs that make me think he is. The biggest two signs being he just told me that he thinks he needs to see a doctor because he has no sex drive, second being we're not having relations but there is definite proof that he's doing something somewhere. I do the laundry in my house so some things are hard to miss. He's become very distant, not so much as even wanting to kiss. He doesn't come home from work late or find reasons to be gone from the home; but every time I'm gone, when I arrive home he's not there and doesn't come home till late, cell phone calls are cleared out of his phone, several different things. Please help! Am I crazy. He's making me feel crazy. When I try to talk to him about it, he goes ballistic. He tells me I need to get a grip on myself. He's stopped telling me he loves me. There's no intimacy at all. I can understand maybe not having a sex drive; however, he is only 34, but, I mean, there's no intimacy at all, no flirting, nothing. We used to have our little inside sexual jokes, not any longer. I just don't know what to think.

Bowl -

I think it's pretty safe to say that all the signs are there.

Walks like a duck
Talks like a duck

IT'S A DUCK.

Why don't you start a thread for yourself. I think you'll get more of a response. Would you like me to do that for you? I do not mind a bit. I know you are new here. I promise you will get the help you are looking for.

Regards,
Heroswife

For the longest time, I said nothing to anybody about my husband's EA with OW. I kept it all inside of me. I finally found myself brave enough to talk to family and a few friends about this issue and I told them that I love my husband, want to save my marriage and I asked for their support. My husband's aunt and uncle are very close to us and they immediately told me that they wanted to talk to him and they are supporting us. At first, I was a bit reluctant because I was afraid of my husband's reaction, but then I agreed. Well, they never did... I feel let down and I feel angry because I beared my soul to these people. Now his aunt is always calling me and asking how we are doing and how I am doing and I find myself angry and hurt to the point that I feel reluctant to answer to phone or talk to her. I know that she is praying for us and I appreciate it, but I feel let down since she kept insisting that she wanted to talk to my husband. Sometimes I feel like yelling or lashing out, but this is so unlike me, but it feels like something is going to explode inside of me.

I understand that one should never really count on anyone but oneself. I'm really beginning to grasp this concept. I guess I've just been to naive and innocent and maybe the time has now come that I'm learning the cold hard facts of life.

Most of this has made me feel very disconnected from this family and some friends seem to have distanced themselves. I guess people may be afraid that these problems could end up "rubbing off" on them or jeopardize their own marriage.

Kati

^

^

Bumped for InFaith. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

^ for RM

re-exposing this

Bumped for Lostinmanitoba

WAT! Where are you??!? I hope you read this.

OK...now since March I have strongly believed the exposure was what ended the friendship that lasted beyond the A...ok extended the A...I have to admit that.

As you know just last week I was able to get my H to wake up and start answering my questions. We this statement just flopped out of his mouth without him even realizing it:

"After that day in the yard that was it....it was over. I never spoke to her again. I just acted like she wasn't there anymore."

The day in the yard he was referring to was the day I told her H and her H brought her to my house to confront my H.

Now I was shocked to hear this. As far as I knew at the time it was over...all over and he never spoke to her at work...or so he said. But I still suspected...I just couldn't prove it. Now here it is all these months later and I find out that he was still talking to her on a friendly basis and probably still in some type of fog over her.

I thought I'd post this to you hoping that you might be able to use this as more proof to the fact that exposure is a must.

I hope all is well with you.

Hi HW - all is very well with me.........

You don't have to convince me that exposure is a must. Hopefully your words will help a hesitant BS be convinced that exposure is a must.

Hug your girls,
WAT

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

WAT -

I knew it all along and you knew it all along...the only proof that I had was the way he acted. He never came out and told me anything. He didn't even realize that I exposed to put pressure on him to cut off his friendship.

I have no doubt that had he continued the friendship it would have eventually lead back to a full blown PA. That's how it works...they give themselves the liberty of having this friendship and then they convince themselves that it's OK to move forward.

Just hearing him say it validated how I had been feeling up until that point.

I'll give the girls a hug. I'll send pictures as soon as we have our portraits back.

Sending you and Gem some {{{{{{hugs}}}}}}.

Hi all! Great info and advice, thanks!

I'm all for exposure. I think it would have helped a lot in my case.

My wife had a ONS with her best friend's H while the friend was out of the country. The ONS was followed by an EA.

The OM told a relative, who told the other spouse when she got back. The spouse told her H that she didn't want him seeing my W anymore. But...he ignored her NC request (as did my wife.)

The other spouse DID NOT expose the affair to me, however. I found out only by reading a print out of an email that was left in our car. The other spouse had known for at least a month at that point.

When I did find out, I insisted that my wife end ALL contact THAT day. I also contacted the OM and told him firmly that the relationship had to end, and that he should stay away from my W.

Had I not found out, I'm convinced the A would still be going on. It was only after I knew about it that it cracked.

Had the other spouse told me...the affair would have ended weeks before it actually did. We could have begun re-building our marriage sooner.

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: AndrewA ]</small>

Andrew -

I think your story adds a different point of view to the rest. I didn't expose the A to FOW's H until I worked up the courage...I feared so many different outcomes that I couldn't bring myself to do it. Finally once I felt like there was no hope and I was about to just leave I decided I had nothing to lose. Had I gone to him earlier I could have saved myself a great deal of pain.

The irony of the situation is I tried to call FOW's H the day I found out but couldn't find the number! I called 411 and gave the name and even the street but there was no listing. By gones!

^bump^ for IamSLICC

^

I have never made a decision more 'right' in my life than to go to the OM's wife and expose his nasty, vile mess.....I highly recommend it to anyone.

In my case it worked, in your case, it might not. However, you will always be able to rest well with yourself,knowing that you did the 'right thing'!!

^

^^

^^^

^

shift 6

Since there hasn't been many new ones, I'll go:

I believe in exposure 110%!! Would do it over and over again... I am the BS, I did not do this, and while I am a little embarassed, it is not my shame to bear!

I told my family, his family, the friends & neighbors that were here for DD13 b-day party, and everyone from the gym (where OW works & WH leases) who I have encountered including the mgr and owners. I told DD4 preschool teacher (a kind, praying woman) and the school director (one of the reasons we could not pay the bill!) I told a few select friends from work and more. I am not afraid of anything... he wants her, she wants him (or so they thought) than let them shout it frm the rooftops!!!

It actually has been very therapeutic, and I would do it again!

I have 2 of his OW phone #'s. They don't know he was married. Should I call them and find out if he and they were physical cause he says they weren't.

^^Bump For Danny on JFO

bump for those considering exposure

shift 6

^bump^ for 2xTrying

^

Bump

And don't worry about how angry the WS and OP get when you expose - do it anyway.

Remember that exposure angers them BECAUSE it spoils their fun and increases their feelings of shame. Exposure helps to end the affair - or at least the fantasy/honeymoon stage of the affair.

Just be careful when exposing to protect yourself. Never discuss exposure with the WS or OP without first lining up some back-up. It's safer to have somebody with you when you expose and/or the first time you talk to the WS after exposure.

Oh, and BTW as long as the WS is still angry about exposure then they are still deep in fogland.

^bump^

^up^ for LostInMn

I wrote in this thread previously and said that I had not exposed the affair and that sometimes it may not be beneficial.

Well..., I have to retract...

Everything has finally been exposed which was BEST for all. It was the HARDEST thing that I've ever had to do, but I did it.

I think that we are finally in recovery...

I don't post here much anymore, but I wanted to say that expose should be done. I was too scared and too timid for too long...

Love

Kati

^^^bump for foundareason^^^

bump

I will only add that exposure is simply the most effective tool a BS has in his/her arsenal that I have ever seen. Exposure is ruinous to affairs and can result in the immediate end of the affair. Even in cases where the end is not immediate, it seems to hasten the end of the affair because an affair cannot survive without secrecy.

And here is why it works so well. What drives an affair is a fantasy. The fantasy can only survive if reality is not allowed to intrude. Exposure shines the light of reality on the affair and ruins the affair. It causes great conflict and embarrassment when the WS is forced to explain his sleazy actions to others. He begins to see how foolish and sleazy he looks through the eyes of others.

It is like turning the light on in a crack house. Who wants to smoke crack in the light of day when others are watching?

bumpity bump

^^^^^

^bump^ for Petite Flower

up for newbies

Exposure was a strange kind of an "accident" in my sitch...I had not yet found MB, had some pretty condeming evidence that at the least my WH was having an EA..(most of it but not all came straight from the horses mouth BTW) After several months of confrontations (my 1st questions to him about her left me totally shell shocked by his guilty response- was not expecting it) I left for a month to stay with my DD in another state after a huge fight. I confided in a mutual friend (long distance, as I left in the middle of the night for the airport) that I "thought" they had at least an attraction for each other, and she did NOT keep her mouth shut......told everyone in their little group which got back to WH and to OW also. At 1st I was very upset by this as I thought the same thing that Heroswife thought....it would ruin my M. Turned out to be just the opposite........probably the best thing I could have done.....and it was NOT INTENTIONAL. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Figured this out later, as when I returned I found MB and you all, and learned about exposure. That was the turning point in their R. Yes my WH was FURIOUS...and that was not the complete end of their R....but not very long after that it was over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Tare

Lost my last post....won't be so windy this time....I hate typing all that over again....long story very short. In my sitch exposure was a complete ACCIDENT...NON INTENTIONAL...I confided in a mutual friend that I thought there was at the very least an attraction between my WH and OW............mutual friend was supposed to keep this info in confidence...........SHE DID NOT.......SHE TOLD SEVERAL OTHER MUTUAL FRIENDS....Got back of course to my WH and also to the OW. This all took place before I found MB and learned about exposure. H of course was FURIOUS....I was also very upset as I thought as Heroswife did, it would ruin my M......Best thing I could have ever done....and it was all non intentional.LOL Did not end their R completely after that but it certainly was the turning point....not more than a month later they were done......and I didn't even have to sweat over exposing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Tare

bumping up up up

Exposing definately helped in my case.

I exposed to DD and DS, (this devastated fws) and messed up his image of himself.

I exposed to my sisters for support. (This helped to maintain my sanity and realize I was still loved)

Saving the best for the last and what nailed the coffin shut on the affair, was exposing the affair to the director/administrator of the facility my MIL lived at and the ow worked at as an activities director. (FWS visiting his mother gave him cover to see ow daily and in the light)

Exposing to the place the ow worked, and my fws visited, embarressed fws so much, he did not visit after that and demanded that I move his mother out of the facility immediately without his help and he never put another foot inside that facility again.

It was weeks later before the fog started to lift and recovery started.

If I had not exposed, contact would have never ended, and who knows, the EA might have turned PA.

Hi all.
I've been away for a while. I often stop by to read the boards and see if there's anyone out there that I might be able to help. Not that I'm an expert by any means but because this site saved me and my marriage.

I think this thread and it's owner deserve most of the kudos!

I'm glad to see that people are still exposing and I hope that by reading this thread others are convinced that exposing is the right path for the BS.

Keep it going WAT!

Okay, I'm admitting that I didn't read this entire thread, because, well.....I'm tired.

Exposure is CRITICAL to destroying the Affair.

You have to make sure you hit targets which would be influential to either the WS or the OP.

Make SURE that you have a list of the people you are going to expose to, and do it ALL in one fell swoop. Don't drag it out. Do it all in one day....phone call, after phone call.....until you've exposed to them all.

Alot of BS's are scared to expose....you should be afraid NOT to expose.

YES your WS will be angry....but it goes away fairly quickly, and now the affair has tons of outside pressure, and the affair "bubble" begins to crack.....letting reality seep in.

Exposure is one of the most important parts of Plan A, don't be afraid of it.

I know that a lot of BS's are *ashamed* that their spouse has cheated on them, and that keeps them from exposing. DO NOT BE EMBARRASSED you have done NOTHING wrong.

DO NOT be afraid of your WS's anger......your marriage can withstand a temporarily angry spouse, it CANNOT withstand an affair.

God Bless,

-Caren

Anyone else notice anything missing on this thread?

Where are all the FWS's saying how glad they are that their BS's exposed?... Crowing about their better-than-ever marriages?... Claiming they harbor no resentment toward their BS's for exposure?

Or perhaps the real question is... do such creatures even exist?

My livin boyfriend of 6 years threatened that he would never talk to me again if I told his married girlfriends husband or his parents.....I told his parents right away and I told him I did.....I then tracked down his girlfriends husband and we had a nice long chat about an hour.....once I found out that my boyfriend and this girl were together out someplace and I called her husband and told him he showed up at the restaurant they were out....it wasn't pretty.....I then told his boss about the A since they were co-workers.....all his threats of he will never talk to me again....completely false.....once I cut off all communication with him.....he started calling emailing etc. made it a point to tell me he understood why I told.....his A was very quick less then a month....but once I kicked him out of the house he plenty of time to think about what he gave up it also made it easier on him to see her....I think we all need to do what we feel is correct for our situation.....in my case I needed to expose him....I also told a few close friends of mine......

Oh yes, there are several around here. In fact, several recommend it! [Lexxy, Suzet, and KiwiJ come to the top of my head] But the point is that it is not done to make the WS "glad;" it is to bust up the affair. A WS who is RECOVERED will not "resent" exposure. They get over it very quickly.

Key words: FWS's... on this thread.

smartcookie, here's the point I think you are missing. The BS has a choice between potential WS anger/resentment and the continuation of the affair. Continuation of the affair will destroy the marriage, temporary anger will not. Since exposure is ruinous to affairs, a little anger is very much worth it. The WS gets over it.

If a WS is sincerely remorseful about his affair and committed to rebuilding the marriage, they will not RESENT the BS for exposing them. Rather, a truly remorseful person would regret PUTTING the BS in that position in the first place. After all, it WAS the WS who put himself in that position. If they don't feel any remorse, then they probably have much greater problems than "resentment" over exposure.

And........................?

SmartCookie, I have to somewhat disagree with others. I am a FWW, and I confessed to my H without exposure. I do believe that the motives behind exposure must be carefully considered. If the WS is not ready to end the A, it will not happen and the resentment may affect the M, if it is salvageable. I don't think it is necessary to expose beyond the immediately involved people...not saying I have all the answers, just my perspective

Where are all the FWS's saying how glad they are that their BS's exposed

who said anything about the fws being glad...
who said anything about the fbs being glad,..

it's all sick and painful and twisted...

people here rarely crow about their better than ever marriages....

usually they both crawl on their hands and knees through glass to repair and correct....

yes smart cookie there are plenty of people who repaired their marriages post affair...and there are plenty of those that didn't....

very little of affairs or its fall out makes people GLAD

ARK

Allow me to reword my basic question: Where are all of these FWS's who've "gotten over it"? None so far on this thread.

I think it must be exposed within the married couple, but, outside of that, exposure can create long-term problems for the couple trying to recover their M.

Yep, I exist. At least I'm pretty sure I do <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm a FWS (was a FBS, too...and I exposed to my parents and his, as well as our Pastor. OW's H already knew. I was ready to expose to their employers if A didn't stop, but I didn't have to.)

My H exposed my A to my parents. That was a horrible and humiliating conversation, and they didn't even know all the facts (it was PA)! But, I gotta say, that exposure sure helped me face reality in a big hurry! It put a big 'ol spotlight on my sin....sin hates light, ya know.

Am I thankful my H exposed to my parents? YES!
Did exposure help to end the A? Not 100% immediately, but YES!
Do I have a great relationship with my H now? YES! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lori

ETA: Obviously, I have "gotten over it." I'm grateful every day for the happiness I have with my husband. It is a gift I/we didn't deserve.

So? Am still not getting your point.

At Peace,

Thanks so much for your input. A couple of follow-up questions, if you don't mind.

What exactly did your H tell your parents? How did they react? How do you think things would have been different if they knew the whole truth? Was this before or after his affair? Did you initially resent him for exposing? If so, for how long? What has happened in your relationship with your parents, post-exposure?

Thanks,
--SC

Well no. What causes long term problems is the AFFAIR. And that runs the risk of not only ruining the marriage, but of fostering very appropriate resentment from the BS. The BS should do whatever it takes to bust up the affair, and that very often involves exposure to family members, children, employers, pastors, friends.

It takes what it takes and potential "resentment" about being exposed should never be a factor. The deciding factor should always be what will bust up the affair. A WS who is "resentful" about being busted isn't in recovery anyway.

Just remember, many marriages don't make it at all because the BS decides to move on. Their resentment is so great that they choose to cut their losses. The resentment of an affair is a very legitimate risk to a marriage, whereas resentment over exposure is just a job hazard, a job hazard that the WS CHOSE.

I am a FWS who wasn't exposed...Mr. W had yet to find MB...

I have said here MANY times that if my h would have exposed...in my case, to the OM's parents alone, the A would have ended IMMEDIATELY...

Do I wish that my h would have exposed had he have known to...YES, YES, YES!!!

I was a very twisted and sick individual who continued to inflict pain on my family and myself after Dday...I needed saving from myself...

I would have gotten over it because I am recovered and see VERY CLEARLY the merit of exposure...

I would have understood and been grateful...just like I have about the digital recorder that my H used...the keylogger...the meeting with a divorce attorney...the gathering of evidence for issues of custody...

I forced Mr. W to do those things...MY A...MY choices...forced his choices...

A FWS that cannot see this is NOT fully recovered and IS still in the FOG!!!

Mrs. Wondering

Here is my point...

If BS's are to believe that the potential long term gain (a recovered marriage) is worth the short term pain of exposure... and that the WS will eventually get over it... let's hear it from a few of the horses mouths.

Why smartcookie? How many will it take for you to get it? At Peace told you...though I was not exposed, I told you that I should have been and would definitely have gotten over it-I'm not lying...I would have and I am sure...100%

Give us the number of exposed FWS that it will take to convince you...we'll go searching and find them for you...be honest with yourself though...are you really gonna believe them???

Mrs. Wondering

But the BS's don't suffer any short term pain from exposure. They DO suffer LONG TERM pain from the affair. Further, most of the ones who were exposed do not post here, only their BS.'

And yes, BS' are to believe that exposure is very effective because we have seen it happen time and time again on this forum. Regardless of potential "resentment" exposure is simply the most effective weapon in the BS' arsenal. "Resentment" does not change that factoid.

Frankly, I am not too damn concerned about the WS' potential "resentment." What is more important is the resentment of their victims, the BS, the children, the family and other effected people. The people that DID NOT volunteer for an affair but had to suffer the consequences. The WS chose the affair and with that choice, has to suffer the consequences.

If the WS is resentful about exposure, then they shouldn't have been doing those things they don't want exposed in the first place. Exposure is a consequence of having an affair, and if folks don't like that, they shouldn't have affairs. DUH.

A WS who is truly remorseful and in recovery won't be resentful anyway. Only a foghorn would be resentful about having to face the consequences of their own actions.

Any WS who truly wants to save his marriage, will get over it. If they don't then that is their choice.

What exactly did your H tell your parents? How did they react? [color:"green"]I'm not sure what he told them, exactly. I know that he told them I'd been seeing another man and that I'd been lying about it. Their reaction, to ME, was calm, but very disappointed. They let me know that they knew I was involved in "something" and that we all knew it was wrong. They asked what they could do to help restore my marriage. (Yeah, I have good parents!) [/color]

How do you think things would have been different if they knew the whole truth? [color:"green"]Well, an affair is an affair, regardless of which body parts touched which body parts. Lying is lying. However, I do think they would've been much more specific and aggressive in their disapproval if they'd known it was a PA. Which is why I didn't tell them at the time. I tried to downplay it as an "overly involved friendship." Geez, this is embarassing to admit.[/color]

Was this before or after his affair? [color:"green"] This was several years after his affair. [/color]

Did you initially resent him for exposing? [color:"green"] Heck, yeah. I was pissed. [/color] If so, for how long? [color:"green"] I was mad and embarassed at first, but I'm no fool -- I realized pretty quick (like on the way home) that I wasn't really angry at my H. He was only doing what he thought he had to do to. I knew he was desperate. I was just ticked that I was busted to my parents. Ours is a very religious family.[/color]

What has happened in your relationship with your parents, post-exposure? [color:"green"]They never spoke of it to me again, specifically. They'd made it perfectly clear that they love me but would never condone an affair. Period. I do think they kept tabs thru my H, tho, and had several "support" sessions. In our convo they had encouraged me to work it out with my H -- with counseling, if need be. They never mentioned another option. We still have a very close and healthy relationship.[/color]

[color:"green"]Hope this helped!

Lori [/color]

Let me make one thing perfectly clear -- this is not about me (Mrs W). Exposure did not enter into my situation since my affair ended about a month before I told my H about it.

As I have watched several posters struggle with backlash from the WS after exposure, it has raised questions in my mind about exposure and how it should be handled in order to increase the odds of a recovered marriage. Not just bring the so-called natural consequences of an affair raining down on the head of the WS. But to break up the affair in such a way that it increases the chances of reconciliation.

I have expressed those questions/doubts on other theads. WAT -- the creator of this thread -- recently put out an invitaiton for more input on this thread. He wrote, in part:


So here I am. Not to argue. But to question.

And that is what we are all trying to tell you. Exposure does not DECREASE the odds of marital recovery, only INCREASES them. Often, there would be no marriage to recover at all if it weren't for exposure. The initial anger of exposure is not a problem, but an expectation. It is not a big deal as it always blows over. Their anger is not a problem, nor is it an impediment to recovery.

A WS who is truly sincere about recovery will not allow some - very inappropriate - resentment to stand in his way. Nor will a BS, the one who really has something to be resentful about, allow his resentment to interfere in recovery if he is committed to rebuilding the wreckage. It often takes a BS months or years to get over the resentment of an affair. And he didn't sign up for it, a WS DID.

Let me explain it another way. The WS is like a crack addict when in the throes of his affair. He might get FURIOUS when the crack pipe is taken away from him, but that temporary anger does not impede recovery, nor does it render confiscation of the crack pipe to be a BAD THING. The crack head's anger does not change the positive effects of confiscation.

How do you decide if you need to expose? In my case, the OM is married and I know his wife. On the other hand, I do believe my W's EA with him is over. I think it's been over for a month. I am not 100% sure, but I am pretty sure. I may never be 100% sure.

I don't think I should tell OM's wife because first, I do think it is over, and second, I am worried it could backfire. If he's single, I think he'd be more of a threat.

I also worry it could push my W over the edge since she has claimed to have not been happy with me for a long time. Maybe she's bluffing, but maybe not.

Of course, it does seem to me that if I find out she is still talking to the OM, that the first thing I should do is tell his W. Before I even tell my W.

Any advice?

1. He's more likely to end up single in the long run if you don't tell.

2. OM's wife will keep tabs on him and help you keep them apart

3. As long as that BIG secret is out their your wife and him remain connected within the "secret".

4. You, as the husband and leader of YOUR family AND because your wife is supposed to be in No Contact, have the moral obligation to let this woman know a secret you know about her life. Wouldn't you want and feel you deserve the same from her??????

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

Disclosed affairs rarely result in divorce...marriages survive and rebuild, often better than before.

Whereas, a marriage with a secret has a constant and enduring impedement to intimacy and often results in the eventual demise of the marriage.

Help this woman save her marriage. It's the right thing to do.

Mr. W

I think my question has more to do with the manner of exposure than exposure itself (although I reserve the right to question exposure flat-out in future posts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />).

In order for recovery to happen, both the BS and the WS must want it. I can understand how exposure that leads to a lovingly supportive reaction -- one that supports the WS without condoning the affair (as At Peace's parents reacted)-- would eventually help the WS to look inward and recommit to the marriage.

However, might it not also be true that said WS -- exposed in a way that brings about a harsh, shameful, judgemental reaction -- may not ever get to the point of WANTING to recover?

Whether or not the WS's resentment is inapropriate, I think, is also debatable. Behold the exposure equation:

A+E=R.

That is -- Affair+Exposure=Reaction.

While it is true that without the affair, there is no reaction. It is also true that without exposure, there is no reaction. Both parts of the equation involve choice. The choice of the WS to have the affair. And the choice of the BS to expose. Actually -- not only the choice to expose... the but choice HOW to expose.

Your chances of restoring your marriage are MUCH GREATER if you do expose. If you expose, then there will be two people watching instead of one. It will greatly discourage either of them from pursuing the other if they know their spouse knows.

The OM's W also MUST BE TOLD. She has to be told so she can protect herself and her children from your W and her H. She does not have a chance to save her marriage if no one will tell her the truth. Not telling her is cruel.

In your case, I suspect your W is still in touch with the OM. Telling his W would probably kill this affair very quickly before it goes any further.

smartcookie...

It is not my intention to argue either...it is my intention to fully support the principles of Marriage Builders...It is my opinion that casting doubt regarding the single most powerful tool used to bust up affairs is dangerous ground to tread on here...For the "newbies" that come here completely distraught...unsure...questioning...needing clear direction...I simply feel that it is irresponsible for anyone to lead them away from the path that the Harleys have very clearly defined...a very narrow path...

The posters aren't struggling with the backlash of exposure...it is the backlash of the A that they struggle with...

Mrs. Wondering

This is not true at all. A WS in the throes of an affair will never want to be exposed. That is an expectation. This is why it always done without telling them in advance.

The purpose of exposure is to bust up the affair, and the WS rarely wants that. If they did want that, then there really is no purpose to exposure at all, because that would mean the affair was already over.




It is more likely true that the WS will not get to the point of recovery if the affair is not exposed. As I said before, a WS who is truly remorseful will not be resentful and will not let anything stand in his way. A truly remorseful WS should feel shame, that is the natural consequence of bad behavior. Nothing stops a truly sincere WS who wants recovery.

Huh?

Not certain if you are refering to the Ws's reaction to being exposed.... or if you were refering to the reaction of family who were made aware of the infidelity ...

Exposure works to end the affair. Without an ending of the affair, there is no possible recovery.

Exposure is an event intended to be an intervention consistant with consequences of choices motivating someone to stop bad behavior.

If a WS never gets to the point of "wanting to recover" ... why did they not just divorce their BS to start with?

This makes no sense what you are saying ... so I must not understand your point ... could you explain it better perhaps?

Pep

I would add that MOST reactions will be judgemental,[most sane people CAN judge that affairs are immoral] some harsh, and some indifferent. It would be unrealistic to expect sympathy for abhorrent behavior.

The BS has no control over reactions, nor is it relevent to recovery. The WS will have to suffer some backlash from her affair. That is a natural consequence of behaving badly. Ya ain't gonna get an award!

In my case, my mother and sister were quite OUTRAGED about my H's affair and wanted nothing to do with him. But, if he wanted to get me back, I made it very clear that he would have to make amends to them too.

He went to both of them and apologized, which impressed them very much. Had he sat around and sulked or been resentful, I would not have been impressed at such remorseless, juvenile behavior. And I had no intention of cutting off contact with my mother and sister.

So, instead of feeling resentful at the natural consequences of one's bad behavior, we should encourage folks to act with a little honor and character and face the music. No one should encourage cowardly, petty, childish behavior by accomodating stupid resentments produced by their own behavior

ML - What have I said that leads you to believe my W is still in touch with the OM? I have no evidence of that, and I am looking as hard as I can.

Here's a brief summary: W was friends with OM for 2 years. Saw him approx. every 2 weeks at a meeting. At a church retreat about 8 weeks ago he told her he loved her and they discussed how they liked each other. They held hands. That was it for physical contact. She got back and I was suspicious so I checked her cell phone and discovered they were talking a ton - after the retreat - not before. Confronted her, she denied said they were friends. Then she used the home phone and I heard their talk - confronted her again, she admitted it and said she wouldn't talk to him anymore. 3 weeks later he called her on her cell, and she immeidately hung up and called him on the home phone. Big mistake since my recorded was still on. Confronted her, she broke down and told me she had also called him 3 or 4 other times in that 3 week period from public phones. That was about 5 weeks ago and she has told me repeatedly that she has not called him. She did see him one time in carpool line (and talked to him for a minute - kids were in the car). And she saw him at church - I was with her and their was no conversation.

Duirng that time we have been to a lot of MC - including a 3 day weekend of MC. I have been working hard to meet her ENs and do Plan A. She says she's notices. We have regular SF. In other words, I think we are doing OK.

I did hear one call between W and friend last week where W said "you didn't help me out ..." Friend said: "I am not going to tell you what you want to hear, I am devil's advocate..." W said: "I've been good... but I did see him at church on Sunday" - that call bothers me and I am being especially vigilant.

So what would lead you to think she is still in contact?

One reason I don't want to expose is that if she is not still in contact, it will be very bad for me I think. One of our problems is how I have treated her over the past 15 years (no A, but I have been very withdrawn and not met her needs, acted disappointed in her etc.). II have worked very hard on this for the past 8 weeks and I think we are actually doing better right now than before the EA, so I hate to upset the whole thing with exposure.

I sort of feel guilty now too, for the OM's W.

19, it will be very bad for you if you DON'T EXPOSE. As long as the OMW doesn't know, there is a strong chance she can/is resuming the affair. As you say yourself, your W just saw him at church and from the sounds of her converstation is hoping to see him again.

As long as she continues to see him, she cannot withdraw and recovery is IMPOSSIBLE.

In order for her to withdraw from the OM, contact needs to end completely. That means she NEVER EVER sees him again. Not even at church.

This is another reason why the OMW must know. One of you will have to find another church unless you want to be dealing with an on-again, off-again affair for years. And we have many such examples here if you don't believe me.

This is why Dr. Harley says that the affairee's spouses should ALWAYS be notified and why he is ADAMANT that contact never take place again. The chances of no contact are much greater if both spouses know.

And just how will his wife know if you don't tell her? She has a right to this information and it is likely being withheld from her. How can she protect herself and her children from your W and her H if no one has the decency to tell her?

Are you telling me that you are allowing your W to attend the same church as HIS WIFE and be around her without her knowing that she was screwing around with her H?

REALLY??

It will be worse for you if the affair resumes...

if she is still seeing him at church, she will not withdraw...without withdrawal there can be no recovery...you are changing churches, right? Since this A happened at a church retreat, I also feel that the pastor should be informed...

If she really wants to recover your marriage...then she will eventually understand and get over any anger...It sounds like you just don't want to "upset the apple cart"...but I fear that you are setting yourself up for a false recovery with this line of thinking...

Yes, the OMW MUST know...you do understand that you are now an accomplice to the infidelity by helping the infidels hide their dirty little secret and CHOOSING not to tell her, right?

Mrs. Wondering

Yes, I guess I am telling you that.

But, "screwing around" is not really correct - there has been no PA. If there had been a PA, I would have exposed immediately (and left my W too). My W has downplayed the whole thing and she has never done anything like this before - not even close.

She thinks this thing has been overblown - says they were just friends who got a little too close for 3 weeks. Now, she may be lying about that - I don't know for sure, but if she is telling the truth and if I am making too big a deal out of it, then she will be royally pissed if I tell OM's wife. That's my dilemna. Am I being naive?

She may very well try to kick me out if I tell OM's wife.

Also, our kids are friends (it's his step-kid - this is his second marriage). I don't think I can do anything about that. It will be next to impossible to completely have NC forever because of kids and church.

W (and OM) also know that I have considered exposure to OM's W. They knew a month ago. He has not called her since he realized I had considered it. I think it scared him away from his little game.

I do feel terrible for OM's wife. On the other hand, if this really is not a big deal (which I don't know) am I making OM's wife miserable by telling her something she doesn't really need to know?

So, I really don't know what to do.

How often are you confronted with a moral dilemma?

When you are confronted by a moral dilemma, go with your principles, not with your fears.

Mrs. - The pastor does know. We told him 2 days after I found out. WW had to extricate herself from the group meeting that started all this and she had to talk to him to do that. So we told him the whole story. Unfortunately, we go to a relatively liberal church and he didn't make a huge deal out of it.

Please don't forget, however, it was an EA - not a PA. I think that is why the priest didn't get too worked up about it.

You are right, I don't want to upset the apple cart. I am admittedly being a baby - I am scared to upset it.

Do you really think I am an accomplice to infidelity when there was no PA?

Please see what I wrote above too - maybe they really were just friends.

I heard 2 calls on my recorder. The first was her telling him I had her cell phone records and he told he wasn't to call her anymore and she got very upset - started crying etc. The other call was about 3 weeks later and it was pretty much nothing - about like me talking to a guy friend - I was sort of glad to hear that call because it was nothing. Of course, I was royally pissed because she wasn't supposed to be calling him at all....

So, I am not 100% convinced that they weren't just friends. Of course I could be in denial because by her own admission he did tell her he loved her. She says she didn't say that back to him, just that she had a "crush" on him.

On the other hand, she says she still considers him to be a friend -

Pepper - You are right. The problem is, I am not sure what the right thing is to do here - I am not sure what my principles should be here.

If this really wasn't a big deal (which I don't believe, but I don't know), then I would be causing the OM's wife alot of grief and trouble for nothing. That's part of the dilemna.

I also do not have a ton of evidence - I have a couple of phone calls, cell phone records and a list of pros and cons my wife made for leaving me and it lists the OM and his W as a con - since he's happily marries. I think her IC made her make the list.

Anyway, at this point that is all I have.

Of course, she could check his cell phone records and we could quickly determine if they are still talking. W was calling some from public phones...

Also, my W may get so mad if I do expose that my M may be over. That's part of the dilemna too.

Thanks.

If your wife was not the one who had the affair, I would give her opinion about the need for exposure more weight...

What is morally right is not changed by an angry wife.

Mrs. Wondering. Thank you. I can certainly understand that POV.

Interestingly, when I did a search in the main section of this web site, using the key word "exposure" I found nothing that helped to clear up my questions/doubts. Now, granted, I'm not the smartest-computer-cookie on the block. But if exposure is such an all-important part of MB, I find it interesting that it's difficult at best -- impossible at worst -- to find any reference to it on this web site.

I also don't think questioning any principle... here at MB or elsewhere... is "dangerous". IMO, NOT questioning is the real danger. If it's such a solid principle.. those who espouse it should be able to defend it (without getting defensive) and back it up with solid examples and statistics.

I asked on another thread if any statistics were available re: exposure's long term effect on the recovery of a marriage. I was told there was not, to anyone's knowledge.

So... we're left to consider anecdotal evidence. So I start looking for anecdotal evidence and I find, on this thread, only the stories of BS's. So, I asked: Where's the other side? Where are the FWW's who've recovered their marraiges after exposure? I really think that's a valid question.

If I were a newbie BS... coming here looking for advice I could count on to reach my ultimate goal -- the healing of my marriage -- I would think it would be very valuable information to hear the stories of FWW's who were exposed... details about how they were exposed... and their reactions. For someone who is unsure, doubting etc... I would think that would carry even more weight that someone who writes a post saying esentially "Here's how it is. I know. Trust me. Don't worry. This will all blow over in time."

Again, I'd love to hear more about the manner of exposure.. how the friends/family reacted... and how in turn that affected the WS. (Mel, I noticed you touched on that a bit in your post above. Thanks)

Respectfully,
--SC

Cookie .... why are you concerned with opinions of FWW and not of FWH ???

Just curious.

Hi Pep,
Oops. Typo. Previously, I was writing FWS... FWW is just old habit (since I am one, she said sheepishly).
Outa time for tonight... I'll try to clarify my earlier point that you asked about if I get a chance tomorrow.
--SC

19...

Put yourself in the position of OMW...Would you want her to tell you about the choices that your wife and her husband had been making about your life behind your back?

If it is truly "no big deal" then why would the OM and your W care if OMW knows? Tell her and let she and OM figure that out for themselves...

Women don't cry over relationships with other men if they are, in fact, "no big deal"...seriously, they don't...

Yes, I do think that you are an accomplice to the infidelity if you don't tell her...EA or PA...it doesn't matter...betrayal is betrayal, plain and simple...you hold a secret about her marriage that she has a right to know...how is your holding on to that secret any different than what your wife and OM were keeping from you???

The friendship of your children to OM's children will NEVER be as important to them than the marriage of their parents...NO WAY...NO HOW!!!

Your marriage can survive anger...it CANNOT and WILL NOT survive an ongoing affair...

Another thing...no matter what the fallout...you DO NOT move out..NO WAY...if anyone moves it should be the infidel...NOT the BS...and if they choose to go, they go WITHOUT the children...

You have the evidence...you have the gut feelings...you know what you have to do...deep down, you know...otherwise you wouldn't be here...don't prolong it...the risk to all involved is simply too great...


Mrs. Wondering

19, now you know they are not just "friends." That makes no sense at all. An emotional affair is actually much worse for a female than a physical affair. However, this will probably escalate to a physical affair since you are willing to help them hide their secret. See, affairs thrive on secrecy so you have made it much more likely to resume, that is if it did ever end. The big issue that you have is that they are still in contact so your W cannot withdraw from the addiction she has with this man.

And you know what else? You have a MORAL obligation to alert this woman that your W and her H are destroying her behind her back. She needs to know so can take measures to protect herself.

For you to allow your W to parade around her without her knowing her H is screwing around with your W is extremely cruel. Do you realize that? She will not forget that you allowed that to happen.

I thought that was it ... just making sure the boat had not left without me (again)

19,

Additional benefit of exposure

It appears you are not willing or able (WS resistance) to change churches, well after you expose I bet they will. Saves you having to make your family switch. Bonus being...no contact can really be "no" contact.

Mr. W

No, they don't need "statistics" to know that exposure is an effective tool. Nor would the "long term effects," whatever in the world that means, of exposure be relevant. We only need to know that exposure serves its purpose and there is plenty of experience on this forum and in Dr. Harley's case files. Its purpose is to bust up affairs. Dr. Harley is an exposure advocate who has years long experience with its positive effects. After all, he is one of the most successful marriage counselors in the US.

He speaks about exposure on an almost daily basis [you can hear his radio show by clicking on the link above] and has counseled folks to do the same for years. It is a good solid, effective Marriage Builders tool.

So, if you are going to question it, you should do so with countering facts and statistics [this was your standard, after all and you should live up to it] and relevant questions, instead of simply making blind challenges with no substantiation whatsoever for no reason whatsoever. That would be the "smart" way to make a challenge. Just asking aimless, irrelevant questions for the purpose of creating doubt and unsubstantiated challenge won't achieve that.

Here is a recent email from Dr Harley about his thoughts on exposure. I dont see that he leaves much question about what he believes:

"While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.

Another suggestion I make to a couple struggling to restore their marriage after one of them had an affair is to make the affair public. Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children and spouse of the lover -- so that the affair is exposed to the light of day. What often makes affairs appealing is that it is done in secret. Most affairs become very unappealing once everyone knows about it.

So whether an affair is a one night stand, or has been going on for years, the basic rule for ending them are the same -- extraordinary precautions to guarantee permanent separation. But I will admit that the precautions used for long-term affairs are usually more extraordinary than those used for short-term affairs. I've helped many spouses overcome affairs that have lasted over ten years, but none of them have been easy. "

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

19, you CANNOT allow the OMW to continue to associate with your W and your children not knowing about this affair. That is cruel and she will deeply resent it when she finds out. Nor should your children be around his children ever again because that would mean contact between your W and the OM. This is the problem with keeping secrets, 19, you become an enabler to the affair, which only helps the affair. The truth needs to come out so both your families can seperate and heal. That is the only solution.

Stating the obvious for the record -- Affairs are ruinous to marriages. An affair, once discovered, left unchecked, is likely to lead to divorce. I am not questioning that point. Okay? No need to keep harping on it.

So... the next question is how best to stop the affair. MB principles say exposure is a very effective way to stop the affair. Okay, fine.

HOWEVER... this isn't the "Affair Busters" web site. It's the "Marriage Builders" web site. Most, if not all, of the people dealing with infidelity who come here are trying to achieve the long term goal of saving and improving their marriages.

So the question is -- Does the WAY exposure is handled have any impact on the long term goal of saving and improving the marriage?

Well, YES, this is the Affair Busters website. This is the "INFIDELITY" Forum. [please note sign on door] In order to save marriages, we learn how to KILL affairs. There is nothing left TO build unless that happens. And I have no idea what you mean by the "WAY" exposure is handled. WHAT "WAY?"

19
My exhusband - yes ex - was involved in an emotional affair with a co-worker - they had "feelings" for each other - they both confessed that to each other and then to their respective spouses. Then three days later they "ended" it. I never told a soul - figured I could handle it on my own - no one else needed to know my shameful secret - and yes - I thought of it as mine. Well the EA never stopped - he refused to quit his job - went out of his way to see her. And I did nothing - and now I am divorced - and he actually annuled our 26 year marriage and she is divorced and annuled her 12 year marriage and they are together. So please listen to the wise people on here - They know what they are talking about.

"Happy Finally". You are having hindsight thinking. You have no way of knowing that had you exposed to more people it would have in any way stopped this affair.

Perhaps JUST THE THREAT of ratting to others about the WS affair might help it to end. If not, then follow through with the threat and EXPOSE. JMHO

Celt, sometimes it does not REQUIRE widespread exposure to kill an affair, but when it does, it should be done. Sure, the WS' reputation should not be purposely trashed, but it should not be protected at the COST OF THE MARRIAGE. Nor should the affairee be protected from the consequences of his affair. That is not compassion. And often that is what it comes down to.

A WS' damaged reputation is the CONSEQUENCE of having an affair. A direct consequence of a chosen behavior. The affairee DID something about which to be GOSSIPED. That is a consequence of having an affair. Many people think it is the AFFAIR, rather than exposure, that ruins the affairees reputation, because that is the TRUTH. It is simple common sense. And to assert otherwise is to help the WS engage in blameshifting and encourage lack of accountability.

To clarify Dr. Harley's position about the above post, he ALWAYS advocates exposure to both spouses. He advocates WIDE SPREAD exposure in high risk cases where there was a long term affair or where the affairees live in the same community in order to keep them seperated.

Facing the consequences of one's behavior is not the most terrible thing in the world. Grown up boys and girls do this every day. It is an exercise in character building and maturity and is a sign of RECOVERY.

I think the important thing about exposure is that it be an act of love, not of revenge. The WS will no doubt see it as revenge, because it helps support their rationalization that the BS doesn't love them and the marriage is a bad one. So I do think that the WAY exposure is carried out is important - if for no other reason than for the BS to know that there is nothing to regret in their own actions, and to maintain or gain the respect and support of those closest to the WS. In my opinion, based a lot on what I have read on this site, exposure should be a staged process, enlightening first those closest, and most loving, to the WS, and then to expand the circle as necessary (allowing plenty of time between circles). The idea is not to bully the WS into breaking off the A, because this will not work - rather it will drive them further into their trenches. The idea is to support the real person, not the position they have taken, and through this support combined with the clear stance taken on the A, the WS will have to see the A through a different perspective. Similar to the carrot and stick of plan A.

MT, agreed it should not be an act of revenge, that goes without saying. The purpose is to use maximum PRESSURE to force the affair to an end.

Celt06-
You're right it is hindsight and I never said it would have saved my marriage but I do in my heart - especially after reading about exposure here- believe that it would have ended the affair and my marriage would have stood a much better chance. Especially if I would have exposed at work.
And I must disagree with you on this "Some think the affair ruins a person's reputation but actually it is exposure that ruins it." Sorry - the affair ruins the reputation - even if you are the only one that knows. And you may think you are the only one that knows but I would bet that there are more out there than you think that know.

Pressure - yes, but in my experience, external pressure is something for the WS to work against, to pit all self esteem against - even a way to measure their power. I think the benefit of exposing to people who are a significant source of emotional support and are respected by a WS is that the pressure is internalized - because one can only reject so many people and their opinions and redirect guilt at them, especially when they still respect them. I think gossip will only yield shame, which is not the greatest motivator, but to have people you respect give you both love and express their dissapointment in your choices adds significant weight to one's internal scales. The choice has to be made by the WS (or the S) - if it is made for them (as clearly seems to be the desire of my WW) they will never accept that it is/was wrong, but they and the OP become martyrs in a sense, and personal growth will be stunted.

MT, affairs collapse under pressure, which is why it is important to apply the greatest amount. That is the goal of Plan A and is why exposure is so effective. Exposure is effective because the affairees are naturally ashamed of their behavior and want to keep it a secret.

The internal pressure of that shame causes the affair to crumble when the affairee is forced to see how sleazy he looks through the eyes of others. It ruins the fantasy that supports the affair. Therefore, the GOAL of Plan A is to apply as MUCH PRESSURE as possible, via exposure and not enabling the affair in any way.

Affairs should be exposed to those who are closest to the situation who have the most impact on the WS. Not for the PURPOSE of gossip, but for ending the affair. However, gossip is a job hazard of having an affair and no one has control over that. If you have an affair, you are probably going to be gossiped about, that is simply a consequence.

And of course, only the WS can make the decision to end the affair, that goes without saying. No one is suggesting holding a gun to their head! But it is up to the BS to make that affair as unpleasant as possible in order to disrupt the fantasy.

An affair is a DECLARATION OF WAR on a marriage and you don't come to war unarmed, lest the marriage gets killed on the field of battle.

SmartCookie, I believe that the manner of exposure does matter. I do believe that if my H had exposed to more people (such as employer, extended family, etc.) than the immediate parties involved, I would have not been as willing to work on the M. I think widespread exposure works in some cases,and not in others. Take the opinions here and contemplate what is best for your individual situation.

Obviously, there is disagreement between people on this. Equally obvious, there are a couple of people on here with strong opinions that I should expose to the OM's wife.

I am not as sure. If the EA is really over, then I think exposure to OM's wife is a terrible idea from my perspective. No doubt my W would be very upset. Would she get over it - I don't know, but it would not make things any easier. It would help with total NC in my situation.

On the other hand, if the EA is not over, then I would not be writing this, I would be on the phone with the OM's wife. If I find out it's still going on at all, I will call her.

That certainly does not address whatever moral obligations I may have to OM's W (especially since I know her). I do feel bad that I have not already told her, but there are 2 considerations here that would go against it:

1. If it is over, does she really need to know? I know the answer to this from my perspective would be "yes" - but it's not 100%. Some people might not want to know - especially since it was not PA and it is over.

2. While I do have a moral obligation to OM's W, my primary responsibility and obligation in life has to be to my family - and specifically my 3 kids (not my W, but my kids). I have to do what I can to save my marriage for their sake. If the EA is over (which I don't know for sure) then I am not sure it helps my marriage at this point to tell OM's W and it may, in fact, harm it.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice and I am sorry if I don't agree with everyone. I know you have nothing but the best intentions. I am not being stubborn and I am not stupid, I just think this is one of those decisions that could be good or bad either way and, unfortunately, I won't know that until after the decision is made.

Thanks.

Go with your gut feeling for your situation...

It might.

But not as much impact as the residual resentment of the betrayed spouse.

Harley says that after the affair ends, the person most at risk for ending the marriage during recovery is the BETRAYED spouse. Because of all the resentment that the AFFAIR causes. Let's face it, infidel resentment from whatever form of exposure is not remotely justified compared to resentment for emotional or sexual infidelity.

There is a hierarchy of problems in the aftermath of adultery. Resentment about the method of exposure does not stand out amongst some of the more pressing issues.

Not to mention that the betrayed spouse has emotional needs as well. And some of those betrayed spousal needs get met by wide exposure.

safety <<< the more family/friends/co-workers who are aware of the affair, the more pressure to end the affair


support and counsel <<< often the betrayed feels he/she has no one to speak to and seek advice from

The marriage house is on fire .... if the firefighters need to douse everything in order to save the structure .... who is going to argue with them that they ought not to have used so much water because now the carpets are ruined ????

Does that make sense?

An affair is your house on fire. Put out the fire by any means available, then talk about what got wet fighting the fire.

Pep

Don't make ethical/moral decisions based on feelings, gut or otherwise. Use your moral compass and your life experiences. Gut feelings pick out lottery tickets. Moral and ethical choices require more mature consideration.

I disagree...Certainly, there is resentment about the A. There should be anger, etc. about the A, but it does not help to heap more resentment upon the situation using widespread exposure IF that causes the WS to flee

I don't think a tactical maneuver needs an emotional characterization.

EXPOSURE is a tactical strategy used for fighting a very cunning enemy. Infidelity is an ugly monster and requires planning and resourcefulness.

I don't understand why someone would want a spouse back who is bent upon continuing the A??

19 - I thought my ex's EA was over too - as a matter of fact both he and the OW told me it was. So I didn't expose - didn't make him have no contact and it continued. Am I saying this is what is happening with your W - no - but it is possible. They sure get pretty inventive when they are trying to continue contact.

I do wish you well and I hope that things continue to work out for you.

An A can still continue with widespread exposure

I just thought this needed to be said again! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Lori

I agree there also, at peace...I do not think it is morally correct to try to repair a M using humiliation and embarrassment as strategic techniques

Exposure rarely causes the adulterous spouse to flee. And when it does, it is usually a dramatic short term exit a'la "SEE what you've done. This marriage is OVER.", with an equally dramatic return very soon afterwards. Years on this message board has shown us that the average infidel is an unstable emotional mess.... and they spin themselves in circles no matter what form exposure takes ... they ALWAYS are angry after exposure. What they'd like is NO exposure at all.

Like ripping off a bandaid, exposure hurts, causes yelling, then afterwards, other more pressing issues in the marriage take precedence.

I guess we must agree to disagree...what works for one doesn't work for others

I've been here for years, and I don't recall anyone ever advocating humiliation and embarassment in order to stop an A! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes exposure to others besides the spouse is recommended in order to garner more support for the marriage and to put additional pressure on the WS to end the A. But, I've only seen that recommended when the WS refuses to end the A completely. In which case, which will do more damage to the marriage?: The continuing affair or the exposure of the affair? If the WS won't end the affair, then exposure is absolutely the lesser of the two evils. And, in that case, a necessary one, IMO.

Lori

Perhaps it is not advocated per se At Peace, but it certainly isn't discouraged. And when it happens, many posters are told in effect, "Don't worry about it. It's just a natural consequence of WS's evil actions. It's not your job to appease the WS. Let the chips fall where they may." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

A very reckless attitude, IMO, with so much at stake.

SmartCookie, you are so correct!!

Pep,
Yes it makes sense. It doesn't really answer my question. I appreciate your input none-the-less.
--SC

If a WS is embarrassed and humilitated because their affair is exposed how is that the BS problem? They shouldn't be involved in an affair if the truth being told is going to humiliate and embarrass them.

I was told how right and true their love was - so why not shout it from the roof tops then??? Why be humilitated when people learn the truth? The humiliation and embarrassment should start when the affair does.

Let the chocolate chips fall where they may! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LOL

MANY people do morally incorrect things, and we don't resort to telling people who have not business in it

Exposure works where secrecy does not.

MT wrote:


Yes. Yes. Yes. Brilliant!

I guess that it is all in the way you view the posts-

some FWS seem to have a perspecitve where they view all posts as being negative and bashing toward FWS. They think most posts and posters take joy in pointing out the 'evil ways' and throughly enjoy putting the FWS through a shameful and humilitating exposure. These FWS seem to be very vocal and continue to bring the same issues up over and over and over.

Some FWS don't see it that way as has been discussed on here many times.

Now for the BS. We are considered bitter and mean and evil for exposing the affair- no one is promoting that you take out an ad inthe paper that the WS is having an affair. What is advocated over and over and over is exposing to the other person's spouse even if the affair is over. It is also advocated that if the affair is actve or it is going to be difficult to maintain NC that more widespread exposure might be necessary. I don't think any of us will tell you to expose just for the heck of it.

I think most BS see exposure as a necessary evil. Come on, do you really think a BS enjoys having to tell other people their spouse is having an affair? Can you imagine how much that adds to the pain they are already experiencing? Exposing is not a trip to disneyland.

As for those who don't want to tell the OP even though the A is over, that makes no sense. I didn't find out til the A was over. FInding out gave me the opportunity to work on myself and my marriage. If I had not found out, we might still be really struggling. What kind of life is that?

Well, to be honest humiliation IS a natural consequence of A's. It just IS. It was humiliating to stand in front of my parents and know that they were so disappointed in me. But it made me look OUTSIDE of the little fantasy bubble I had fancied myself to be in. I saw my A through THEIR eyes, and it was ugly.

Humiliation, yes. It's humiliating to a BS to have to tell her and/or WS's family -- or whoever -- that they're being cheated on. It's humiliating to the WS for those people to know that they're cheating.

If you knew that additional exposure (after OP's spouse) would HELP STOP THE AFFAIR, when nothing else is working...why not do it? If the WS refuses to give up his/her OP, then what have you got to lose by exposing? What's gonna happen...is your spouse gonna reject/humiliate/be mad at you?

I do understand what you're saying, SC. I just don't agree that the intention behind recommending wider exposure is the abject humiliation of the WS. The intention is to stop the affair and recover a marriage. The recovery can't even begin until the affair stops, so pussyfooting around with it will only drag things out longer.

Lori

Yes, I answered your question from my perspective ... MY answer was this

"It might".

But there are much more important indicators for recovery than the one of exposure technique.

sfjaj

Does anyone know about your affair???????

My H and several of my close friends whom I confided in

Is there anyone your husband talks to about this??? Does the OM W know?

My H has spoken with one of his close friends and our pastor. We have an appt. with an attny. this week before we tell the OMW as there is an OC involved

Just felt compelled to give you one of these....(((sfjaj)))

Lori

thank you

I'm glad your h has someone to talk to. I feel horribly for the OMW.
My exh didn't want me to tell anyone - so I didn't and still regret it.

MF,

Not sure if you were refering to me in your post since you didn't name names, but I'd like to respond to some of your observations anyway.


Yikes! I certainly don't view these boards that way. Not at all. To the contrary -- I've been blown away many times by the compassion extended to me regarding my own sitch -- quite often from BS's no less. This exposure business is ONE area where I think a more careful and constructive approach toward the WS/FWS is warrented.


Again, not sure whether you were referring to me. But I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who's used the word "evil" so far on this thread, so I'll assume you were.

However, I, nor anyone else to my recollection, ever suggested that the BS gets any joy out of exposing. If I implied that in any way, I didn't mean to.

Do I think there may be one or two posters who actually get their jollies pointing out the WS's evil ways, and actually enjoy seeing WS's squirm as much as possible? Well, to be perfectly honest, yes, I do get that impression.



No. Execpt perhaps by your own WS. Maybe there's no way to avoid that when exposing. I don't know. That's what I keep trying to explore here. Is there a way to handle/orchestrate exposure so that the WS is less likely in the long run to see it as retaliation... so that it doesn't become a barrier to recovery?

I was not referring to anyone in particular- it just seems to be the current feeling that FWS are bashed, BS are bitter and exposure seems to get a different perspective every day.

Sure...in a perfect world...In the same world where the A itself isn't a barrier to recovery...

Of course, in a perfect world A's wouldn't happen...SO...Here it is, plain and simple...

AFFAIRS ARE UGLY...EVERYTHING that surrounds the A gets "THE UGLY" all over it...There is no sugar coating it...PERIOD!!! You choose the behavior...you choose ALL of the consequences of that behavior...pretty simple...Exposure IS the most effective tool to shine reality on an affair...and END it...Ending an affair is the ONLY chance a marriage has to recover...

smartcookie...I sincerely mean you no disrespect, but *I* think that whether you realize it or not...this is personal for you...the stuff you are saying reminds me of a time when I came on here and told everyone that "there's more than one way to skin a cat"...I was FOGGY...Days later after letting some of the posts sink in I began to see that...Hey, I continue to see things more clearly everyday...I am still learning...

Foggy, that is how you are coming off here...don't shoot the messenger-I'm just telling you how it looks to a lot of people-"hate" me if you must...I think that you should really do some reflection...a FWS completely out of the fog sees that any means necessary to end the affair should be taken...and are NOT offended by that at all...don't believe me...take a look at who you have on your bandwagon...that should give you a clue...

And what I said yesterday about casting doubt on MB principles and that being harmful to "newbies"...well, just look at 19 if you need an example of that...


Mrs. Wondering

From WAT's post soliciting input on this thread:


emphasis, mine.

To which I say...




Emphasis, mine...

As a freshman or "newbie" at a state college, when I signed up for a class, I knew what the subject was based solely upon it's title...In other words, when I signed up for European Lit 101...there was no doubt what was in store...No one came to class and argued that the class should be American Lit 101...Nope...Never...

The freshman/"newbie" here should be given the same courtesy...They come to Marriage Builders "College" and then choose the thread/course entitled Affair Exposure 101...*I* think that's what they should get...

Mrs. Wondering

Do YOU have suggestions in this regard your own self Cookie ?

How a foggy soulsick WS experiences exposure (to me ) seems impossible .... impossible to control/manage. Overall, they are royally pissed off about exposure, no matter what!

Are you still foggy or what? October 05 - shouldn't be. Are you serious? I have never seen a BS encouraged to use exposure for revenge or humiliation. It is ALWAYS advocated to help END an affair. And yes. Let the chips fall where they may. It is not the job of a BS to protect a WS from the consequences of their affair. It is the BS's job to do EVERYTHING to end the affair. And as tools go, exposure has no peer.

I'm glad to hear that exposure is not meant to humiliate or ridicule...that seems to be accepted as an important part of exposure...now we agree

look at this

Removing the secrecy of an affair by its exposure is often the only "upset" necessary to end it. Frequently, merely the threat of exposure causes an affair's end, even before a BS knows it's happening.
Just as frequently, a BS who has discovered an affair hesitates to expose it, fearing shame, backlashes from the affairees, or a tougher course to recovery.
After discovery and a refusal of the affairees to end an affair, its exposure is just about the only direct action a BS can take to end it and doing so is a staple of Plan A. Yes, a love buster, but a calculated one.


[b]

written on the first page of this thread .... by WAT

the WS who continues his/her affair after discovery is NOT allowed to vote or suggest when, or how the exposure will take place ... It is a unilateral decision made by the betrayed spouse desperate for the affair to end.

NO ONE brought up humiliation as a motive .... except some (former) waywards who obviously do not understand the exposure recommendation ...exposure is a part of Plan A ... which is VERY loving PRO marriage-anti-affair...

"Removing the secrecy of an affair by its exposure is often the only "upset" necessary to end it. Frequently, merely the threat of exposure causes an affair's end, even before a BS knows it's happening."

IMO, THREATENING TO EXPOSE should ALWAYS be tried FIRST before actual exposure.

Common sense would be not to use a bomb of exposure to stop the affair if all you needed was a threat.

BAD ADVICE.

You don't understand HOW exposure works. The goal of exposure is to kill the affair by REMOVING THE SECRECY. Making threats does not achieve this. Secrecy ENABLES the affair.

Making threats to expose is doing nothing more than forearming the AFFAIREE with your BATTLE PLAN. Before you go into battle do you GIVE YOUR OPPONENT YOUR BATTLE PLAN? Of course not! If you do, guess what? YOU LOSE.

Making threats not only defeats the purpose of exposure, but it takes away that weapon for any future use. When the affairee is forewarned, they simply get to the exposure target first and spin the story with the BS starring as the "insanely jealous nut who thinks I am having an affair with everyone." So when you do call they simply roll thier eyes at you. Then the truth never gets out.

If the threat doesn't work, which it LIKELY WON'T, you will not have that weapon for future use because you will have been NEUTRALIZED.

When an addict is pushed against the wall, he/she will fight with all their might to continue the addiction and will be p*ssed as all get-out because you are giving them a choice: either stop the addiction or you will lose your loved ones as support for the addiction.

It's the same with infidelity.

While the affair is going on, I'm a beliver in FULL disclosure: i.e. tell ANYONE and EVERYONE.

When my ex-H cheated (with several women in 1987 - two at the same time)... I was so embarrassed and told nobody. His parents got a clue on their own, and I did eventually tell them, with my (then)H sitting right there. They were a fantastic support to me and were very disappointed in their son. I wish I'd told more people... it wasn't until we moved 100 miles away that the affairs finally ended. I believe if I'd shared with our minister and other key friends we might not have had to move, though I do advocate moving to another state, if necessary to get away from the affair partner.

When I was a WS (years later)... I told my family (including my children and grandmother - and if you think that was comfy, think again), he told his family, and his friends, our friends, and anyone who would listen. Though we weren't able to save our marriage, I hold no anger toward him at ALL, for exposing me or anything else. I completely understand why he did. And let me say, it was VERY UNCOMFORTABLE to know that all those people knew my dirty little secret. Further, I'm still embarrassed when I see anyone he or I told. I'm embarrassed because of WHAT I DID, not because he told.

I believe that during the affair you tell whoever can help you ... after the affair is over... yes, even years later... I believe the spouse of the affair partner needs to know. I also believe in telling your children, if you hadn't before. They always know that *something* happened in the household and it's very unfair that they be left in the dark.

THIS is what true recovery looks like. A truly recovered WS will not resent having to face the consequences of thier actions, but will ACCEPT the consequences as they honestly take accountability for thier actions.

Resentment is a sign of fog and should not be encouraged because it is the antithesis to true recovery and taking accountability for one's own actions.

A true friend to a WS will help them RECOVER AND GROW, not aide them in validating destructive resentments that prevent them from building character.

Good post, newbeginning, good to see you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And I don't believe that two people trying to recover a M are at war with one another...

Threatening exposure waters down the effect of exposure ... and that is NOT recommended.

I agree, drop the bomb without warning. It is the only way. Otherwise, the WS has the opportunity to prepare the other person to minimize the effects of the exposure. "My spouse has gone crazy. If they call, don't believe anything he/she says." etc.

A warning for newbies:

Exposure sometimes takes some time to work. Sometime radical change happens immedicately, sometimes it takes time before you see the effect. I waited 6 months, thought exposure hadn't worked, but it had. I just could see it working. Trust the people here - exposure works. It is the only thing that does.

PS - Hi, you guys - I don't post much any more, but I'm still around.

No one said they were. The affair is an act of war on the marriage and until the dragon is slayed there will be no recovery.

Like many other addictions, the threat of exposure (cancer for smokers, loss of family/job/vehicle/integrity for drinkers or drug addicts, for example) does almost nothing. Maybe in the short-term... maybe.

I seriously doubt the threat of exposure is frequently helpful in ending the affair.

As a struggling addictive personality myself, I know that the many times, the *only way* to stop the addiciton is by hitting rock bottom. It would be wonderful if one's own moral compass would kick in before hitting rock bottom, but unfortunately, that is not often the case.

It is worth trying the threat of exposure first...rather than exposing to those who have no business knowing the information

"who have no busness knowing" ... ahhhhh the wonderful secrecy treasured by infidels everywhere

Infidels don't think their spouse has any business knowing affair information ...

Not an excellent gauge of who "has no busness knowing"

Pepperband, I NEVER said the spouse shouldn't know...

Does OM's wife know you and her husband share a child?

No; my H and I meet with an attny. this week before that occurs so that we are sure we don't have legal issues over the OC

Do you think MM and his wife have a "right to know" this child ... after all HE is the father and SHE is the child's step-mother, is she not?

There will be legal issues
There will be moral issues
There will be heartache

... and it ALL was born of secrecy

which is why we like to shine a very BRIGHT light on adultery ... because if your affair had not been secret for so long ... perhaps there would not be an innocent lovely child caught in the middle of adult's bad choices

....

now that the affair has been partially exposed to the wounded ... it ought to be exposed to OM's wife so she can be a part of the decision-making

Really, sfjaj, I applaud your partial coming out of your secret .... That must have been heartwrenching. And, it was a brave step out of the shadows. GOOD FOR YOU !!!

However, you have a long track record of secrecy and distrust of radical honesty...

You have a long term history of living in the shadows of lies ...

Now you express an opinion that certain others don't need to know .... when, clearly, you witheld life-altering information from thoses who DID need to know ... for years and years ... and still the step-mother of your child is unaware.

It might cross your mind that perhaps you are not actually a very good judge of "who needs to know".

Pepperband, you gave me cause to think with your last post. You are very correct in your assessment of the pain and damage I've caused in my M. The OMW does deserve to know...but my H and I plan on raising the OC as ours,without interference from the OM and OMW. Your last line regarding my judgment is a valid point. So, at the risk of sounding harsh, the OC is not to be involved with the OM and his family

For your sake as well as the child's sake ... I hope that plan works out for you. I actually think a child needs less chaos not more ... and being thrown between 2 unhappy sets of parents is definitely MORE chaos. I sincerely hope and pray that MM and his BW do NOT seek visitation rights.

I beg of you ... please refrain from advising others on this board right now ... please believe me .... in 8 months or so ... your perspective will be dramatically altered and your advice will be much sought after ... but

truthfully

YOUR marriage is NOT yet recovered ... and your current advice to others reflects that yours is still a very early bud of recovery, not nearly close to fully bloomed.

You need assistance yourself ... ask more questions from other recovering WW ... one of my favorites is FaithfulFollower ... plus she is also dealing with an OC ...

Ask for HELP ... because that is your reality right now ... you know much less about recovery than you think you know ... It takes a long time to get over the emotions and you are taking early baby steps ... so don't try running.

Take care.

i understand. i guess i should have stopped posting much earlier and continued on my own. as I said on an earlier thread, several have been so very helpful, and it's with their encouragement I confessed. I'm not sure what the magical arbitrary amount of time in recovery is before one's posts are deemed "worthy" of consideration, but I don't think I will ever hit the mark in anyone's eyes. I realize I've made huge mistakes , but I've never felt so unwelcome anywhere before

If a person enters an AA meeting and has been sober just a few weeks ... that person cannot offer insight to another newbie as to what it takes to remain sober for 10 years ... What I am saying to you has nothing to do with "being worthy" but I am noticing that you are very inexperienced at Marriage Builders concepts... and it shows.

Your worth is completely in your own hands. How you choose to live your life will determine that.

Please, take care

Greetings and Salutations everyone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

WAT asked me to come over and describe what I had gone through as it relates to exposure, the associated fear, procrastination... Basically, the whole ball of wax, so, here goes.

As indicated in my signature, I found out on 3-29-06 that my wife was having an affair. For two days I surfed the web, internalizing pain and anger, etc, until I discovered this web site. It took me another fea days to sift through the printed material until I really found a board I could post on. Once I did, things started happening quickly.

I learned a lot of things in a very short amount of time. Betrayed spouses will internalize. What I was doing, saying, feeling and experiencing was normal! It was classic! And along came someone who said, "Expose if you want to save your marriage." I thought, "Expose? You're friggin nutz. I go around telling the world and my wife is going to drop me like a hot potato."

Guess what? That is normal for a betrayed spouse to think and feel too! What's going on here? I had this inner arguement. I couldn't see how loving my wife and my marriage meant hurting her by telling people that were in a position to put pressure on her. What I didn't realize was that while I was fence sitting about exposure, I was only enabling what I didn't want to happen in the first place.

We had been going to marriage counseling, doing our homework, having good weeks, having bad weeks, not really making any progress. Why? Why weren't we moving toward something that could be attainable with some work? I'll tell you why! On Mother's Day, I found out she was still in contact with the other man after she said she wasn't! I hadn't exposed and it cost me 6 weeks. Six weeks!

I had thought that by threatening exposure, I had done enough. Didn't want to mess up her job, thought my situation was unique. Sound familiar? "Oh, but I'm special and I don't fall into the normal category so I don't have to follow the normal rules." Tell me you didn't say that to yourself and I'll buy you ice cream.

Now then, in order to expose properly, there is one thing for certain that you absolutely must do. You have to pull your head out of your [censored]. Yup, I said it. You're a betrayed spouse and your head is so far up your [censored] you playing ostrich. A little trivia about that bird. It doesn't actually bury it's head. It puts its head low to the ground because it thinks it can't be seen, no knowing the REST of him is still standing up!

If you don't expose the affair, you're asking to be blindsided. You're putting yourself in a position that has no control. "Sure, honey, you can go bang the neighbor. I'll stay here and watch the kids for you." You're enabling your wayward spouse to blindside you at will.

Absolutely nothing will work if you don't expose. Plan A is useless if you don't expose. Your wayward spouse will think, "Ohhh, isn't that cute. I'm having an affair and my spouse is so happy for me. S/he is doing all this wonderful stuff for me and I don't have to do a thing." That's called cake eating, BUT, in this instance, you're spoon feeding your wayward spouse.

After I discovered the contact again on Mother's Day, I exposed to my wife's boss on Monday. Now, my situation is a little different because we have a military association. Sweet mother of pearl was my wife mad at me! But guess what? The other man is history. I have made more progress in the last week than I had in the previous 6! Why, you ask? Because I was in competition!

It's easy to win when there's no competition. If you give the other person competition, they start to rethink things. They didn't bargain for the additional stress of exposure. People finding out wasn't part of their little plan.

IT IS VITAL to expose. Will it be scary? Yes. Will it hurt some? You bet. Will your wayward spouse be angry? Oh, heck yeah. Will it give your marriage a much better chance at surviving an affair? Absolutely. So, if you're still sitting on the fence about whether you should expose... if you've heard everyone and their dog tell you to expose and still can't decide, think about this...

Your marriage has a disease. It's called infidelity. It's a cancer, eating away at your marriage. The only way to get rid of it is to operate (expose) and follow that with some chemo (Plan A). The chemo by itself won't have the desired effect. You have to cut out the diseased part first. Will you get it all the first time around? Hopefully. Sometimes not and sometimes you have to go back in and do it again. If you allow the cancer to grow and give it a safe harbor in your marriage, believe me, it will thrive.

So, get your instruments in order. 1) a list of who is in a position to put pressure on the adulterers and their phone numbers. 2) proof. 3) uninterrupted time to sit down and nuke the affair. 4) courage to stand up to your wayward spouse and not apologize for exposure. Your marriage can't survive an affair without exposure.

Best wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Is there a point of no return? How long is too long?

I think the point of no return is when you decide that you've absolutely had enough. Only you can decide that. I can say that the longer you know about the affair and don't expose, the less respect your wayward spouse will probably have for you. Nobody wants to be with a doormat. Typically, nobody wants to be a doormat.

If I remember correctly, your wife and the OM work together at a school and there was some talk about her transfering? It's awesome if she's going to transfer. I think the school administration should still know about it. The more water you let under the bridge, the more you have to mop up later.

Best wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This link is for people who want to see an example of exposure working.

The OM was in town last week and a friend of mine called him up just before he was to get off work and go to his motel. My friend asked to speak to my wife (who wasn't actually there yet).

Apparently this caused them to call off their meeting, because my wife came home shortly after that madder than heck.

In a previous phone conversation two weeks earlier with the OM, I calmly told him that I would be helping his wife in any way I could with evidence of his affair for the purposes of their divorce so that she could obtain the best settlement possible. The OM is the majority owner in a small business which isn't doing well enough to support him (he works a construction job during the week). He understands now that he has put his ownership in this business at risk with the affair. He is also aware that I know a great deal more about the affair than he suspected, so I think he is not quite sure whether I've hired a PI or not.

When my friend called the OM Thursday and asked for Mrs. Hiker just before my wife was to meet with him, he probably suspected that we knew of the meeting and decided the risk of being caught was too great. Perhaps the same thought was in his mind for the weekend near his home. Remember, he is the one dictating when and where they meet, so obviously there are factors that have caused him to curtail the frequency of the meetings. I think these phone calls played the major role, but there may be other things at work here of which I am unaware.

Recall that after my first phone contact with the OM, my wife came to me furious because she said the OM was stressing out and "he's got enough to worry about."

Very thoughtful of her, don't you think?

^bumping for new arrivals^

Bump for newbies...

Very helpful thread

i can't get to any of the links on the first message, can someone help me out? it says page not found

definitely bumpin' this one up for the newcomers!

Drexell,
My husband had a very short-lived affair while we were separated this past summer. When we got our crap straightened out and started to work on our M, he ended the affair. There has been NC by him. She called him one week into NC, and he told me immediately. The problem I have is that I never told anyone except my best friend. This OW had a man waiting in the wings. She moved on to him less than three days after my H called it off with her. Do I tell the OW's new man? Or do I let him find out for himself what kind of "woman" she is, to use the term loosely? By the way, I know the man in question. I have known him for a long time, and he is a very nice guy.
Studentmomof3

For the newcomers.

I know exposure can be scary and may anger the adulterers.

It wasn't until the end of my 25 year marriage to a serial adulterer that I started doing exposure of his adulteries.

ALL the adulteries eventually ended on their own, but exposure helped end them sooner and also had some other added benefits such as sending a clear signal to my WH that I would no longer silently put up with his cheating.

Also, IMHO when their is a pattern of serial adultery THAT fact should also be exposed to others - not merely the current adultery, as if each adultery is an isolated incident. Actually the serial adultery just proves that it is not the marriage/BS that is at fault, AND it is not that the OP is somehow better than the BS, it's the serial adultery problem of the WS that is the problem and MUST be dealt with.

Even if/when the current adultery ends, the current OP is out of the picture, the serial adultery still needs tobe addressed or it will just happen again.

I exposed my ww's affair to the om's w. We live 1000 miles away and my ww drove several times for trysts with her "soul mate". When confronted by om's w's team (she told several people and they were so bold other people noticed), my ww came home MAD. She threw her clothes in a suitcase and moved out (after telling me I'm lower than snake-spit and should just hang myself). That was two weeks ago. Today she sent a text message to my phone saying she needs money for an apartment and furnishings. She also wants to move some more of her belongings and I need to be gone when she does...and she needs "help" to get movers...

Am I sorry I exposed? I was until reading this thread. Would I expose again. Yes! Thank God for this site and this thread...and thanks to the ws who post here...I appreciate your input...

Great job! Hope you understand that she did not leave because of your exposure, but because you interfered with her affair. And it is your job to interfere with her affair.


I hope that you don't help her or agree to leave your house or allow her to take ANYTHING except her personal effects without a court order.

MisterR, welcome to Marriage Builders. You will get much more help if you start your own thread so folks can see you. They won't see you buried down at the bottom of other peoples threads. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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