<small>[ August 19, 2004, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: whiteknight1 ]</small>

sigh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> you risked irreparably breaking your wifes heart for sex?

I usually do feel like I can learn something from your posts. I do think it's good to get the WS p.o.v. here, you do give us that.

You haven't answered my ? to you (you may not have seen it) WHY when your ow was knowingly and purposely doing something that would damn near kill your wifes spirit and cause her pain that is indescribable, why then was she so great that you couldn't stay away from her? But the second she did something that might hurt you she became "evil"?

Honestly, I am not sure what anyone would get out of reading about the sordid, sleazy sex life of a fogged out, screwed up WS who is NO WAY in any sense of recovery. The blind cannot lead the blind, my friend.

PAL, if you do come back, stick with the winners, not other newcomers who are in the same mess you are in. We have numerous WSes here ARE in recovery who CAN help you. WhiteKnight is not in recovery himself, so is not in a position to help you. He can't even help himself.

And whiteknight, to you, I would only suggest that you take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth. You need to focus on recovery YOURSELF before you can help anyone else. And maybe a good first step would be in telling your victim, ie: your wife.

<small>[ August 19, 2004, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: whiteknight1 ]</small>

WK, far from being a text book case of recovering WS, I don't see you even trying. Rather, I see you here trying to "educate" others with nonsense when you can't even educate yourself. Why not clean up your own backyard before you presume to clean up others?

WhiteKnight,

Maybe if you confessed to your wife, stopped obsessing about sexual fantasies with OW, and put up some boundaries (like not sending private e-mails to another man's wife) THEN we would see that you are in recovery?

You seem to be stuck and therefore not really capable of helping somebody else to let go of an affair. I don't think we mean to be rude to you, IMO it's more a matter of you not realizing how abrasive some of your posts are to people who are in recovery. You certainly can relate to others in the same stage you are still in. But this site is for people who are willing to follow MB principles to try to save their marriages. That's what we are trying to support each other in doing. We just don't see how you can help someone else change when you are unwilling to make those changes yourself. There are sites like the TOW site for the sort of sharing that enables and endorses adultery. No doubt those folks would not feel welcome here and vice versa. Maybe you're just not ready to save your marriage yet (or to help others save theirs)?

If my WH ever came to this site I would worry about him talking to somebody like you. He already has plenty of friends and relatives who have 'supported' his adulterous urges to the point that he's wreaked ruin on his marriage and family. My WH would benefit from the 2X4 whacks to help knock him free of the fog.

Maybe this analogy would help: What if somebody showed up at an AA meeting and started handing out his e-mail address to recovering alcholics, inviting them to contact him if they need to talk about how good beer tastes, how badly they miss sipping it and hanging out at bars? The reason what you want to talk about (not YOU) is unwelcome here is because it is not what helps people save their marriages. To fight an addiction you have to come to a realization that dwelling on the pleasure you got from feeding the addiction is dangerous.

I know you can't help thoughts popping in your head... but 7 months later? I think it would be better if somebody who has had much better success with withdrawal gives advice to PAL (and to YOU). And I don't think it's appropriate for the private e-mails to be going on, no matter what the motive. Even if it never did lead to an emotioanl affair, it is in itself a betrayal IMO. Does your wife know about it? And would she be OK with it? ONLY if it was OK with PAL's husband AND your wife, and you showed them the e-mails, would it be OK IMO. Frankly I'm appalled at how you've left your wife totally in the dark about your affair, about why the OW is taking vengence on you, AND about you e-mailing PAL.

IMO you should start taking some advice from the more successful posters here and wait until you've had more success saving your own marriage before giving advice.

It's not just a BS vs WS thing either. We have a lot of respect for the WS's who post here who are working hard at restoring their marriages. There doesn't need to be more support here for the justification, fog, hanging on to the fantasy, dishonesty, etc. Those THINGS (not the people who do them) get criticized here because they do not help marriages recover.

Your wife will find out someday and she will be mega upset that you continued to be dishonest with her for so long. You're not merely delaying recovery - you're making it more painful, more work, and less likely to be successful the more you stall.

<small>[ May 29, 2004, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

Meremortal that was one of the best posts I have EVER read on MB.

Jenny

PS I hope I'm included in the WS's who are doing their best to save their marriages.

Another PS I find it interesting that WK seems to think he is the only WS on the board. I have never seen a flicker of interest when any of us (WS's) post.

I have had nothing but support (except for one notable occasion when I WAY overstepped the boundaries of good taste) from EVERYONE on this board.

<small>[ May 29, 2004, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

Jenny, I would sure put you in that category! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WK,
I'm not a perfect ws by no means, but I have been
where you are and I know how it feels. You don't
have to take any advice from anyone and you won't,
not until you're ready to accept responsibility
for your own actions. Ya got to let ow go! You have to let it be over or it goes on forever, ya got to stop blaming her.You and I both know, she didn't twist your
arm, you are just as guilty, accept it, leave it be,
move on.

I didn't tell my wife, trust me, I wasn't protecting her,I was protecting my own [censored] and so are you.
Just couldn't find the right time, couldn't sleep,
or eat, couldn't do my job, it ate me up. I had all kind of stomach problems. The ow told her, it was awful
and yes it would have been awful regardless, but I
only wish now I had been man enough to do it. It hurt
my wife so much, the fact that I didn't tell her,
but we are working on it everyday, she's right here
with me, we've had to go to court recently with ow,
and sometimes things were ugly but we made it.

As far as emailing another woman, you should make it a rule NEVER to do that, my wife and I share the same screen name, and everything, I like it better that way, no secrets, nothing to hide. Any mail can be read by both of us at all times. Ya gotta work on you before you can
even try helping anybody else and right now, you're a mess.

Please tell your wife
she has the right to know!

wk,

the person of the the married couple that you are trying to engage are not responding.

However, everyone else is.

wk, come out of your fog.

Once again, how can your BS meet your need when she doesn't know what has been going on with you?

You have triggered me in a huge way. No one knows all of my story here. But, my FWS has his own issues, not to do with yours. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But hey, you never know!

How can your wife meet your serious, very valid EN's if you don't let her know what is up? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Are you scared? Good. U are wrong. Your wife needs to know what you need. This is why, after 7 months of NC, except legally of course that you are not fulfilled.

Ask your BS why she does not meet your en's. Have you tried MB principals with your BS?

I just have to agree with everyone else here. CONFESS.

Don't be scared. MB posters will all be there for you and support you when it all comes down.

Sacrificing your health for secrecy is not good. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

God Bless, I hope you find the way you need to go for a healthy life.

I am done.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

WK -

My D-Day would have been far better if my WH told me about the A. Instead I was informed by the OW that she had indeed slept w/ my H. The pain that was inflicted upon me that day was horrific. I went totally black. My OW (former friend) filled me w/ Cosmopolitians and then ripped my heart out. Do you want that for your BS?

Please tell her yourself before someone else does. I would have respected my WH abit more if he was MAN ENOUGH to tell me of his betrayal. He was a COWARD. Your wife deserves more and you are not being fair to her, you are still deceiving her - remember your vows - lift the fog that you apparently are still in. Your OW is not to blame for your deceit - ONLY you are - she didn't take vows w/ your BS!

JMHO.
BB2

hello to all-
I will continue
to encourage WK
to confess. It is
his decision-
not ours. I have
let go of OM-
but my withdrawal
is a process. It
is not as easy as
BS want to think it
is. That I am
honest about. My A
was more an EA-
than PA-I had
thought I had a
trusted friend-
that is what I miss.
WK & I will chat
on board & not
thru email anymore.
I do not want to
make myself vulnerable
to anyone.

That is what sucks about affairs, isn't it? Everyone loses something, to some degree. My FWH's OW was my "best friend" at the time. We talked all day, every day. We called each other when we got up in the morning, throughout the day, at night. Her and my H were my best pals.

So, after d-day, I had nobody. My days were filled with those two. It was so quiet. My phone didn't ring. And I had so much pain, and nothing to do with it, nobody to tell!

I did create a circle of friends around myself, those that I had let fall off my radar, being so busy with H and my "friend." And these friends were so grateful to be back in my life! We had all missed each other. And they have been so awesome to me. Let me back in their busy lives, taken long phone calls with me repeating the same things to them over and over and over (mostly "Why?Why?Why?How?How?How?).

And H came home. We are in a wonderful recovery. BUT, OW will never be in our lives again. She lost her two best friends. We miss her kids. In some ways, I miss her - the person I thought she was.

But I have a life with my H. We have kids, dreams, plans, a home, love. We made a commitment to each other 13 years ago to be life partners and best friends.

Fill up your days with others. Fill up your heart with love. Keep talking to your H and reconnect with him. Go for a romantic weekend. Even if the trust is tentative - work with what you have.

Best wishes, and sending you lots of love and prayers.

SS

<small>[ August 19, 2004, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: whiteknight1 ]</small>

Well??????

WK how is your wife now?

Jenny

hello WK,
it may not seem like it now, but you did the right thing. my W thought she could hold it inside her forever and spare me the pain. it simply was too much to carry. she still has moments when she questions her decision to tell me. i simply asked recently if she felt the weight of that burden was gone and she said yes. even though it was difficult to hear and think about for me at the time, i know she is better off emotionally and physically having laid down that burden. in time you will feel the same. i know without a doubt that during the A she was not herself or thinking clearly. i also know that she never stopped loving me, she just slowly developed feelings for OM over time. your situation may be similar. i know this for certain. if there is true love between you and your W you will make it. it won't be easy but you must try hard. encourage her to come here. i'm glad my W did for me. but most of all, pray both of you for God's will to be done in this matter and for strength to get through it no matter how long it takes. one more thing, be open, be honest, be loving! you have taken the first step toward a better marriage. we will be praying and thinking of you both.
trusting in Him, rdl

oops, my computer skills need work. at first i posted same post twice. then deleted the duplicate. will work on that. later.

<small>[ June 03, 2004, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: renewingdeeplove ]</small>

wk...I glad that you came "clean" with your wife. We will be waiting to hear more from you.

OK, I'm back for a little while. I am absolutely exhausted. Have not slept much, as everyone can imagine.

On this incredible road of experience I have been travelling on for so long, I have learned all the things I was wrong about. A lot of what I wrote in the past were honest feelings a WS goes through, and I thought they would last forever, but they don't. Something happened to me a few weeks ago. Maybe I was all talked out. Maybe I bled myself dry from all the thinking about OW, but suddenly --- she was nothing to me anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


Maybe time had finally caught up to me. Maybe all the evil things she did really pounded its way so deep into me, that it knocked all images and thoughts about her Out of my system. I just don't care about her anymore. I don't wish evil or death or misery upon anyone, but if she died tomorrow, it would be of little interest to me. She tried to ruin my M. She tried to ruin my life. She can burn at the stake tomorrow. I don't care.

The worst part about the A was that it hurt my W --- someone who did not deserve to be hurt.

Th other horrible things is how it humiliated me. It made me ashamed of me. It took my pride away. It diminished me as a person. It made me less of a man.

There is nothing GOOD about an A; but I would not be honest if I didn't admit that I at least wish my OW was a nice woman, and she and I strayed and now were saw how wrong we were, and we went our seperate ways. Instead I am absolutely embarassed that I fell victim to a manipulator and evil witch.

I explained to W why things happened --- in my opinion. I ave been working way too much in the last few years. She has been busy and I have been busy. We neglected each other. Our sex life was non existant. She was not very affectionate. It did not seem she was very much interested in my lfe. I was bored. And then came this OW. She smiled at me. She was attracted to me. She was proud of me. She wanted to be with me. She was all over me. It felt like being in H.S. again. I fell into the pit and did not know how to get out. Truth is, in a lot of ways, I did NOT want to get out.

I am so ashamed that I lied to myself and W and so many others for an entire year! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> NOT that a one night fling is justified, but what a liar and jerk and fool I was. Holy co <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> w, I ******* some OW for an entire year! Imagine if I spent that time trying to improve my M. Imagine if I spent that time doing something good. Instead, all I did was "take a vacation from real life." Well, the vacation is over. The bags are unpacked. The lights are on in the house. The vacation was not free. Got to pay the bills now.

I don't have too much to say about W reaction now. She is terribly upset. She is upset that I *********** OW. Especially, a ***** who has caused us so much misery.

I really put my health --- and hers --- in danger. There are diseases out there! I could have gotten A.I.D.S., Genital Warts, or who the heck knows what else? What an ******* I was! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

She feels like a fool for not seeing what was going on. After all, I lied to W for an entire year. I have done my best to let her know that she was NOT an idiot --- I was just a very good liar. I was an expert at hiding the truth.

W is amazed that I --- of all people --- would do this. You see, even though I am an American, in many ways, I have a lot of non-American standards. In a lot of ways, I can really relate to certain Asian cultures. Every one who knows me knows I always keep my word. I am not known to be a liar. Honor means a lot to me. If these were different times, I would ram a sword into my heart, because I have disgraced myself. I have disgraced my family. My parents did not raise me to be the type of person who gives their word to another person, spend years with that person, offering trust and love and everything I have, and then hide in the shadows and screw OW.

I have not been the person I always wanted to be. I have not anything I am proud of. MY W can not be proud of me. No one can be proud of me. I was wrong, wrong, wrong.

W does not talk much. SHe has not had many questions. She is the quiet type. She is sweet and quiet and honest. She is not flamboyant or talky. She does not have many friends. She likes to come home and read books. She does not know who to talk to. I have encouraged her to come here, and she may come and lurk around for awhile. I have not told her I am WHITEKNIGHT yet. I am so scared of her reading some of the things I have written. She can learn so much by reading other posts for awhile, before making herself known.

She agrees with me, that telling her friends and family can be a nightmare. She is wiling to FORGIVE me, but there is no doubt whatsoever, that her friends will NEVER forgive and forget. Not that I need their forgiveness; but I do need to be in the same room with them i the future, and answer the phone, and more. What will they thik of me besides --- WHAT A JERK! WHAT A LIAR! SHE DESERVES BETTER!

Does anyone have any experience with this? How do you deal with BS family and friends?

How do I recover my self-esteem? I used to be so proud to be me; now I am ashamed to look in the mirror. I was a liar. There is no changing that. I lied to someone I lved. I took the easy way out. Instead of fixing something that could be fixed, I hid and played in the park with my little "friend." I kicked my W out of the sandbox and hung out with my new "best friend" instead; who turned out to have motives a child's mind could not compreend.

I have matured. I have grown. But I am still ashamed of my chilldhood antics. I wish I could go back in time and talk to the little boy I was --- last year! I was not a man. I was not a H. I was not a partner. I was not my W best friend.

The GOOD NEWS? Something like this will NEVER happen again. I give all of you my word, I give my W my word, and I give ME my word. I have a life to life. It is short enough. There is no time at all for messing around with anyone or anything that might cause anyone harm.

I'll be back. I'm exhausted.

WK

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: whiteknight1 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do I recover my self-esteem? I used to be so proud to be me; now I am ashamed to look in the mirror. I was a liar. There is no changing that. I lied to someone I lved. I took the easy way out. Instead of fixing something that could be fixed, I hid and played in the park with my little "friend." I kicked my W out of the sandbox and hung out with my new "best friend" instead; who turned out to have motives a child's mind could not compreend.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Last week you had something to be ashamed about. This week you don't, WK. You handled this bravely like a real man of character would and I am proud to know you.

The definition of a real man is not someone who is perfect, but someone who has the strength of character to admit when they are wrong and make amends for their wrongs. You did very good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As far as her family and friends go, most will forgive you when they see you are sincere about your committment to your W. Some won't, but there isn't much you can do about that.

Take care, WK, I am proud to know you.