I have no wise comment to make GC. I follow your story with very update and I * sigh * for you. The resigned sadness permeates your every post. What foul things affairs are.

{{{{GC}}}}

Be happy

Thank you Bob. You named my feelings well. I hadn't noticed myself. Got to reluctantly let go, and make a life from the wreckage. I'm no danm good at parties these times.

Stupid high road.

You can take the high road, or you can be like the sparrow, and the OM.

Hard as it is, do you really want to go the other way?

BTW, I know, I know.

I wish you could see just how well you are doing. I think living in the middle of it clouds your vision.

Don't think it's a waste - doing what is right is never a waste. That's how you get from where you are, to where you want to be.

I'm still praying for you. Mostly that you will know the things you want to know, and that you will be OK.

Wish it were easier though.

SS

One of the things that helps the fire to remain lit, in an affair, is opposition. The more opposition, the tighter the two will hold together. It makes it more 'tragic' when the world doesn't support them, and feeds right in to the fantasy. Romeo and Juliet and all that.

So while it's good that her family is voicing their true feelings about the path she's chosen - it also probably helps them to stay together, in a way. I wouldn't ever expect them to love the situation - but I wonder if they didn't concede a little, if it wouldn't help to dowse the flames a little.

H4F, could you email me? The email theft has not been resolved, and I've lost your address. My new email is A BIG DAMN SECRET.

Interesting thought, kill the magic by accommodating the affair.

There's something very weird about this relationship. Car4love and I have a line we use to describe the two of them: "Us, but less." Last night she was telling me about some of OM's interests, and the similarity between us in some of those ways is remarkable.

I was telling car4love about some of the things the sparrow asked me to give her that I thought were strange requests, things I refused to let her have because they have always been more my things than hers, and because they're useful to me and not easily replaced. Each of those requests, when I told car4love about it, she'd say, "Yeah, she wants to give that to OM. He's into such-and-such and would want it for that."

So, I'm getting long-winded here, but it looks like sparrow has not only replaced me with OM, but is actually attempting to give some of my possessions to OM, to encourage him to pursue interests that are common between us. Like she's trying to make him into a copy of me that's just more wimpy and passive.

Okay, now I know I'm in plan B, and I'm not supposed to obsess about these things. It was last night's conversation got me thinking on this, is all.

Who has seen Vertigo?

I wonder if the sparrow will get OM to take guitar lessons.

Heh.

GC

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: graycloud ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And car4love and I get to start over from scratch.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nuh-unh. You both are better people now. I know you don't see it as such...but GC, you've GROWN. And you are an even more awesome human being now because of your growth. Sure, none of us wanted to be FORCED to grow like this....but bud, you cannot tell me that you are not a better, kinder, more learned person than you were pre-A....Cause that would be bull-sh*t and I'd call you on it in a heartbeat.

- Kimmy

h4f:

I was thinking somewhat of the same thing. Like "What you resist, persists" maybe.

Don't know how 2 suggest a change here, but it does seem like one is in order.

best,
-ol' 2long

GC, have you packed that stuff yet? For Pete's sake, I know looking at pretty girls is fun (I do it regularly), but please, would you be willing to get off the dating sites and get the stuff packed?

See, I sense a certain amount of wallowing, here. You're feeling sorry for yourself -- and I understand why -- and you're wishing you had a pretty girl to talk to. Or your friends who do not want to hear about your pain anymore. Or sparrow's family.

In other words, you're working on getting your emotional needs filled. Conversation, affection, admiration, all that stuff. It's totally understandable -- and if you continue to go about it in the ways you're currently doing it, well, I suspect it might not work out the way you want it to.

You're looking, in some senses, for a way to fill the hole inside you. I know that hole well. I've sat with my own emptiness more nights than I can count. (And unlike Spider Robinson, who was once employed to guard a hole in the ground, I have not written anything nearly so amazing as Callahan's Crosstime Saloon, which is all about the utter pain of humanity -- and finding a place where it can finally be healed.)

If you eventually find God, He/She/It can fill that hole. If you eventually heal, the hole will close of its own accord. If you eventually reconcile, you will still have to fill the hole (it's not sparrow-sized, though you may think it is). If you don't reconcile, it may actually take less time to fill it.

But be careful while it's there. Spend the MOST time with the friends who don't want to talk about sparrow. Let them help you NOT talk about her, for hours at a time.

Find a way to pay forward the support you've gotten. Give to others the help that's gotten you through the rough times.

Spend time with children -- those of friends or family -- because you can't talk to them about your adult troubles and the child within you needs to go out and play sometimes.

Try to spend at least one hour each and every day engaged in something other than thoughts about sparrow. All these things I've suggested will help you do it. Just keep trying.

GC, had to drop in. Have been an infrequent contributor to MB lately. Well, I have to be honest, I guess I have never really been a "contributor" I have recieved much more than I have ever had to offer the members of this board for the emotionally insane. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> However, I still lurk daily. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

What you say about the Sparrow looking for your interests and pseudo qualities really hits home. I don't know if my own STBX does that as much with the HomeWrecker Steve or not. I do feel I, myself, will be doing it however. The things that are special to me and the things I cherish, the places and activities I've enjoyed, .... Well .... I don't know if I want to give them up. Though admittedly it nauseates me to think of my STBX sharing things that were special between US, with HWSteve.

To answer you from TreeReich's thread. It actually is peaceful. Sometimes to peaceful, but much better. Maybe she feels the same too. However, she still trys to antagonize me on the phone, and keeps putting conditions on me seeing my children.

I try to limit my exposure to her ... just send emails. She says she wants to talk instead of email, but I tell her ... it is too painful to hear her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

But I'm feeling better, gaining back some weight, and having fun most nights.

JustJ, very well spoken. I thought you were talking to me for a minute.

J...

Thanks for your advice. I'm wallowing a little, but don't get the wrong idea. That one visit to the dating site put me off the whole idea, though I admit I was tempted to chat. And I'm fighting the urge to lay my worries on my friends.

I spend most of my spare time working on the house.

What you said reminded me of a verse from a Woody Guthrie tune Wilco recorded:

All this day long I linger here
And on in through the night
My greeds, desires, my cravings, hopes
My dreams inside me fight
My loneliness healed, my emptiness filled
I walk above all pain
Back to the breast of my woman and child
To scatter my seeds again

Pretty, ain't it?

I think the best thing I can do to deal with the hole right now is probably to do something generous. I worked on the election, but with that over, I think I might volunteer at the library or hospital in my neighborhood, maybe see if I can read stories to kids or something.

I swear in the name of all that's holy I'll finish the packing this weekend. The girl has so much stuff, and all of it fragile!

GC

One more thing, J.

About Callahan's Crosstime Saloon - this week, I'm the monkey on the cover. Boo hoo.

GC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think the best thing I can do to deal with the hole right now is probably to do something generous. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's probably colder than a wooly booger up where you are right now, GC, but Habitat for Humanity is one of my favs.

Oh, and a lot of hospitals need "holders" to rock little ones that don't have parents to hold their hands....but that one is a really hard one to do.

Heh heh. I hadn't seen the new cover -- had to look it up on Amazon.com. My copy of that book is so aged and worn that I'm not sure it even has a cover anymore.

And yes, you've hit it exactly right. Go do something for someone. (And if you were a Kerry worker, understand that there's a good bit of grief tied up in that loss, as well, and you may be conflating the two.)

Nio, what's so hard about being a "holder"? Perhaps I'm not understanding the context?

Holders usually hold the little ones (babies) that are terminal, but don't have mommies or daddies there....

My granma in Milwaukee is a holder for AIDS babies.

All babies need to be loved and held - it's just a really hard thing to do when you know they're not long for this world. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Oh. Yeah. Wow. I never thought about their parents not being with them. Wow.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think the best thing I can do to deal with the hole right now is probably to do something generous. I worked on the election, but with that over, I think I might volunteer at the library or hospital in my neighborhood, maybe see if I can read stories to kids or something.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GC, what a sweet soul you have.

Nursing homes are always a great place to help out too. Nothing better than chit chatting with somebody as adorable as grandma, while respectfully kicking her a$$ in checkers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jelly

Gray! Jel's got a point...I'll bet my left pinky toe that you and your guit-fiddle would be most welcome at a nursing home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Those are good ideas, y'all. Got a volunteer application for the neighborhood hospital. Let's see if that leads to anything.

I'm packing sparrow's stuff tonight. Sorting photos is taking forever!

Here's a funny thing. Years ago, I went to the shoe museum in Toronto - very cool place. Sparrow loves shoes the way lots of women do. So I bought a cool poster with pictures of shoes on it I knew she'd like, secretly built a frame for it, and gave it to her on her birthday. She went wild over it, and always displayed it prominently. Later, on a trip to Toronto, we went to the museum together, so on. And this poster was on the short list of stuff she wants from the house.

Why would she want this poster? It may as well be a picture of me.

Anyway, that's my Friday night. Not the most pleasant evening, but I still have a beer left, and there's good music. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

GC

Well, get over on the Iditville thread with the rest of them that don't have a life <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As for all the rest, stop it right now. You all ready have it figured out. You know she wants you but in OM's passive self. She needs to be with someone she perceives as her equal. She thinks you are better than her. She has low self esteem. You see it already Gray. You've answered all you own questions. Once she realizes she had everything she is looking for, except herself, she will get it.

Sorry Gray. I know how much you still hurt, and don't hurt, and want to move on, but the questions keep you hanging on. I know, I've been there with my DD's dad.

Don't worry, be happy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />