</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulNewCJ:


Can you say "Passive-Agressive Conflict Avoider?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

When the fecal matter has hit the oscelator,...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Too bad that Passive doesn't start with a 'C' because then our WS would be CACA. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

2MCM:

I looked up synonyms for "passive" for "c" words that might fit.

Here's what I found:

compliant
comatose
circumventive
cool
chilly
cold-hearted

How about "Comatose-Agressive Conflict Avoider?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

gc:

I know you're fond of the house (like I am of ours). Have you considered selling it now and giving sparrow her "cut" now, with the knowledge that one of her "fallbacks" has now been sacrificed?

or, can you get the house appraised in it's current condition and somehow "freeze" the equity she's entitled 2, so that you can get back 2 work on it? You'd have 2 both hire an appraiser that you can agree upon.

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong> or, can you get the house appraised in it's current condition and somehow "freeze" the equity she's entitled 2, so that you can get back 2 work on it? You'd have 2 both hire an appraiser that you can agree upon. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's what we did. Our deal will (presumably) say that when the house is sold, I get half the profit, or $xx (my share of the equity today) whichever is less. That way if the market crashes, he won't lose all the equity to me. I will never take more than 1/2 of what is there, and in theory will take less than he gets assuming there is appreciation before he sells it.

I've had an appraisal done, but she does not know about it yet.

The equity will be frozen, so to speak, when we both sign the marital termination agreement. That's about all I can do right now.

The way it's going is this - sparrow's lawyer sent the original MTA, and we started to skirmish about a few points, via letters between the lawyers. My last contribution was mailed right before Halloween, and she has done nothing since then.

2long, selling the house to scare the sparrow straight is an interesting idea. But I'm not prepared to lose the place.

I wonder if she wants to play file-for-divorce chicken with me.

Whatever it is, something seems to be happening. For better or worse, my plan B has caused a change in her behavior.

She's gone from seeing me occasionally and pushing hard for the divorce to never seeing or hearing from me and not pushing a bit.

Not sure I like where that may be headed.

GC

GC,

I still think that when that affair falls, sparrow will take a huge fall. When she sees the pain this has caused she will crumble. Not that I would wish that kind of pain on anyone, even one who has hurt a pregnant woman, I think sparrow will take a huge beating at her own hands.

Part of me hopes when that happens, you still have love in your heart because I do not like to see people hurting, even from their own misdeeds. But part of me thinks you deserve better.

HOWEVER, I still hope that things work out for you and sparrow. I must be a romantic at heart. And I truely hope that car4love finds peace and happiness too.

What can I say, I'm a girls girl, and I don't like to see women hurting.

Where I'm going with this, I have no idea. Just wanted to be part of the GC group I suppose. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks, weaver. I'm having a tough time posting on other threads lately. I'm conflicted, and I don't feel I have much to contribute. So I'm glad you stopped in!

I'm uncertain the A will have a normal, natural death any time soon. Even if either one has doubts, they may feel obligated to stay in it.

And if they don't have doubts, well...

GC

No new events or dramas to report.

I've been reading some threads, thinking about this protection phase. How it's supposed to force the affair to play out, lose its romantic charms, at which point the WS is likely to make a choice to return.

I'm in "yeah but my situation is different" mode today. But I'm not pouting or pitying myself. Just thinking on it...

My W left without giving me a chance for plan A. I did the best I could from a distance. And she may have found a way to keep the loss of romantic luster from killing the affair.

She made it her only option.

And now, seemingly content to let me swing, she's dragging her butt with the divorce too.

I got what I wanted! The divorce isn't happening. But neither is our marriage.

She's content to wait it out until the world accepts her evil affair. Which, eventually, what choice does the world have? And if she's content to wait for me to pursue the D, she won't have to wait long. I can't afford to be separated much longer.

Brilliant.

I suppose there's a slim chance that she's confused, that the affair is not going so well, that she's just stewing at Grandpa's house trying to figure her life out. I have no way really of knowing. But I expect the worst.

Last night my band rehearsal was cancelled - the singer's BIL is an alcoholic, and he disappeared a few days ago. She called me and we talked for a long time. She kept apologizing, then I reminded her how much she's listened to me. And on she rambled. The drunk turned up alive late last night, so at least he's survived another bender...

GC

Hi Gray,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The divorce isn't happening. But neither is our marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Welcome to Limboland.

The good news is that even though it feels like nothing is happening, time and familiarity tend to wear off the attraction and they find out that they are no better off. Much worse off, actually.

Its a waiting game.

I have done plan A ad nauseum , and sucked up all the hurt.

I am a bit tired of Plan A. I think I have been laying it on a bit thick, so I am backing off.

He has been coming around alot more. The main good thing is that he is spending time with our daughter and she is happy when he is here.

The other day he admitted to causing her harm by taking off- he sees that now, how it messed her up.

I think the fog is lifting slowly, and I think that as it does he is seeing that the mess he has made for the past 20 years, all the harm he has done; is beyond his ability to fix .

Only God can repair this. (but He is good at that). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Shul

hey gray, just wanted to let you know i still read here and try to keep up with what's happening with you.

you are pretty much par for the course at this point and IMO moving along very nicely. i'm curious to know what your IC thinks of your progress and if they have any recommendations at this point. I hope that i don't upset you but i don't put much stock in thinking about whether the A will last or not. i think you are realistic and very insightful and i agree with you when you say that maybe the only reason why they are together or stay together is out of obligation. SH said the exact same thing to me.

i certainly don't want to rush you or push you but i think you said it best when you said you don't have a marriage either right now. if you were to pursue the finalization of things, just remember that you did not start things, she did in more ways then one. why should she get to call the shots now? i had convinced myself that if i pursued anything or went along with anything then i would be giving my h the easy way out and that's just not the case. he and the ow already have issues and i'm aware of the statistics, and also i know that if he is truly a child of God then he will realize one day what he's done and you know what they say? that will be priceless. they also say the best revenge is having a good life. now i'm not saying we have to seek revenge or be vengeful but i think you get what i mean. these adulterers are going to experience heartache and the other saying is they've made their bed and they will need to lie in it.

IMO you are already getting to the point where you really question whether or not that you really want the sparrow back. i don't say that because you don't care for her or love her but because i say it because of what she has done, what she has become, and all the obstacles you would face if reconciliation happened. that's one of the reasons i chose the name i did for the boards because i knew that whatever road i took it was going to be rough and that included recovery. but i eventually got to a point where a recovery w/my h no longer looked desirable and in fact was something i felt that God did not want for me. i didn't get that way overnight but my h never gave me any indication that he was going to change his mind or things would be different. i did see that my changes had an affect on him because if they didn't i think i would already be divorced by now because i would have given good justification to divorce me, does that make sense?

i personally would have been starting off from scratch w/my h had we got back together because we were never good friends, never talked, and didn't have the same goals and beliefs. that would be different from you and sparrow but someone said something to me once that has just kind of stuck. in that would you ever go out with someone you knew had an A? i most definitely would not and would have essentially be "dating" my H and i certainly KNEW he had an A. also w/the career choices, interests, and hobbies my h would always be putting himself in a vulnerable position and i didn't want to always have that lingering.

anything is possible and certainly is possible you and the sparrow could get back together and go on to have the best marriage you could imagine. All things which are impossible with man are possible with God (Luke 18:27). So if you still want to get back together w/sparrow then i want that for you. but i also want to encourage you and reinforce that it is also okay if you no longer want to get back together w/the sparrow and in fact wish she would get going on things. even if you got things going again or whatever, it still would not be done overnight. i told my lawyer on 11/5/504 to tell my h to have the paperwork sent to my lawyer's office and he did tell my H and almost a month later nothing has been finalized, in fact i feel like i'm being jerked around. anyway.............

continued prayers to you, RR

Shul, you seem to get the best results from your H when you push him away. You've got that instrument pretty well calibrated at this point, haven't you? Push this hard, he comes running. Pull that hard, he runs like the wind...

Good to hear from you, RR. I'm so glad you're okay with things, such as they are.

I associate wanting the sparrow back with how much it hurts when I get any news of the affair. MIL and car4love have been good enough to shield me from information, but when I talk to them I can infer more or less what's going on, and it pains me still. And that suggests to me I'm not ready yet.

Of course, feeling pain at the severing of an attachment is perhaps not the same as wanting it unsevered.

This is the kooky course of my thinking these days. I'm like one of those ball & paddle toys. Do those things have an actual name?

I like my current plan - do nothing until car4love has the baby, unless sparrow gets it together and makes some kind of move. I need to talk to my attorney about what I might do about the house though.

GC

what is car4love's due date? i don't remember.

Car4love is due at the end of January.

GC

(((sigh)))

Poor mija. Would you tell her there are people who she doesn't even know that are thinking about her and hoping she's okay?

You, too, GC. ((((GC & C4L))))

Thanks Kimmy. It's like you have a sixth sense. This is one of those days - tired of being tough and loyal and principled.

GC

Yeah. I'm psycho that way. (hehe)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This is one of those days - tired of being tough and loyal and principled.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're preachin' to the choir on that one buddy! But the alternative to being loyal, discipline and good (gotta throw in that we're good, right?) Hoovers big time! D'ya think you'd have such staunch supporters as RR and Believer and BobP and even me if you were a moral-less s.o.b.? I'd not want to call you friend... and I do count you as a friend and a blessing, so you're doin' something right - capice? Blessings, however small and insignificant are still blessings and deserve counting.

How are you feeling? My bug kicked my bootay! Evicted the frog from your throat yet?

I got my lap doggie - not the yorkie I wanted, but a mini-daschaund from a rescue. She's the bomb diggety! She made my convalescence not so bad.

one more time ((((GC))))

NOW GO DO SOMETHING FUN!

I'm incredibly preoccupied with the silence I'm getting from my W. As I keep repeating on this thread, aside from slinking by twice (the last time a month ago) to pick things up, she has done nothing to pursue the divorce since I went to plan B two months ago. A large pile of her things remains waiting in the garage.

To recap, the last time I saw her was 9/18, when she and her cousins came here to get most of her things. At the end of that meeting (in which she said, "I don't want to be married to you any more!"), she cried, I cried and hugged her, and off she went. The last time I spoke with her was when I put her in plan B on 10/13, over the telephone, and she was very emotional. I sent the plan B letter the same day.

I want to just let things slide until car4love has the baby at the end of January, hoping that with a little more time I'll be less ambivalent about what I want. But the situation is driving me to distraction.

Possible reasons:

1. She's not sure this is what she wants. The affair is in its seventh month, and things could be changing. Maybe she's just hiding out, not entirely sure where her feelings are.

2. She has nothing motivating her to hurry it up, since OM won't be divorced for many, many months.

3. She thinks she's doing me a favor by letting me dangle, figures she'll let it go until I want the divorce as much as she does. Though how would she know?

4. She hates being the villain, and wants to wait until I get sick of it all and file for divorce on my own. As a card-carrying conflict avoider, she may simply lack the guts to follow through on the divorce.

4. She figures the longer she waits, the more equity gets built up in the house and the more it costs me to buy her out.

I wish I could stop thinking about this, because there is no way to know what the truth is.

GC

GC,

Oh this isn't even a mystery at all. Your sparrow has been extremely consistent on this one--I just don't think you want to see it. Or at least, I think you love her so much you don't CHOOSE to see it. Your lovely sparrow follows the adage "If you ignore it, it will go away." She runs away. Period. She chooses not to deal with issues, she flees them.

Thus...it is extremely consistent for her to run away from this mistake too. If she ignores you, you will go away. If she ignores the failed marriage, it will go away. If she runs away from the pain she has caused you, it will not exist. If she acts as if you don't exist, there is no need to divorce you and face the loss that she will inevitably have to face, because you don't exist!!

If she were to suddenly now turn around and FACE what has happened and what she has done...now THAT would be inconsistent. Right now, she is behaving exactly as she most usually does.


CJ

P.S. I do realize this is not easy to hear. I'm in a bit of a funk (as I'm sure you understand), so if I said this with an unusual lack of compassion, I'm sorry. It sucks when the WS's are consistent!

CJ, sure I can see it. That's #4, but your description is better.

When I was doing plan A, it forced her to deal with what she'd done. Having the fact of our M repeatedly thrust in her face made her hostile.

Now that I'm doing plan B, I can be ignored. What a relief that must be.

Now I can see that facing these things she wants to ignore is the last thing she wants to do. Wanting to avoid them trumps most everything else.

Question is, what am I supposed to do about it, if anything?

GC

First quick note: my son is still missing so I'm not altogether in my mind. If this wanders a bit, I apologize, but do your best, okay?? I will too!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong> CJ, sure I can see it. That's #4, but your description is better.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well actually, GC, this is NOT #4, because that implies some level of consciousness. I believe she is relatively unconscious to her choices to ignore her problems (because of course, she chooses to ignore that she has an issue avoiding her issues! haha). Anyway, #4 sort of suggests that she has thought about this and is trying to jerk you around, and I suspect it is much more about avoidance than deliberately trying to increase equity.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Now that I'm doing plan B, I can be ignored. What a relief that must be.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Heehee...GC you tickle me. Now honestly...can you look me in the keyboard and tell me that you were not ignored while she was right there in front of you? Can you honestly say you were considered and respected? I know you are trying to be sarcastic here (it's DRIPPING with sarcasm!), but at this point it's not about HER anymore so much as it's about YOU. For your own self-worth and self-respect you need to protect yourself from her harmful ways. Now as luck would have it, she probably DOES find it "easier" to ignore you, but the focus here is on doing what you need to do to protect YOU. If she refuses to face her issues and work on herself, then she could be standing right there in front of you and she would still be avoiding you. It's just easier for you to pretend she is "with you" when she is in the same room.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Now I can see that facing these things she wants to ignore is the last thing she wants to do. Wanting to avoid them trumps most everything else.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep--and it helps a little to think of this like a drug addict. She will do ANYTHING (including harming herself, her family, losing her things, ANYTHING!!) in order to not face this--much in the same way a drug addict will willingly lose everything for their numbing drug. They will LOSE AND DESTROY everything so they can numb out and avoid. This is just my personal opinion, but that is heartbreakingly sad, isn't it??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Question is, what am I supposed to do about it, if anything? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There's not a lot you CAN do, GC. Even if you two were to get back together in a healthy relationship, you are each responsible for yourself and your choices. She may be making poor choices, but she's free to do so. About the only thing you CAN do is to protect yourself and keep yourself on the straight and narrow. This is why, on the occasion, the BS is the one to file...not because they want the M to end, but because there does come a day when you realize that it is in fact dead and unrecoverable -AND- the WS does not have the chutzpah to file (even though they did a lot of the work to destroy it)!

In my case, my exH and I were separated for a while (like 6 months), we tried one last time to reconcile and he cheated again, we separated for serious, and the abusive behavior escalated. Even so, we lived apart for another 6 months and then finally I filed. He was willing to continue "status quo" because he didn't want to face what he had done and what he had to lose, but he also didn't want to face what he had done and fix it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> So, I gave it consideration, knew in my heart that he was the unbeliever and did not want to stay, and went ahead and released him (and in a way, released me). I filed for ME--not to hurt him or "wake him up" or any of that--not to gain financially--but because I did see that I was a valuable woman worthy of guarding my heart. See that verse in my signature?? It's there because I know that God finds my heart VALUABLE and wants me to protect it...from my heart a lot of people receive a lifeline and eventually LIFE, and it's too precious to keep allowing it to be damaged.

So that's what you can do. Get to know yourself more and more, and when it's time, you will possibly need to be the one to file.


CJ