You say it well.

That's why the High Road is the only way. Anything else is slow death.

I suppose I COULD look into rocket. Never even heard of it before you brought it up.

Ha, Ha, SS learns something. Now if he can only remember it.

Sleep in peace, sweet dreams.

SS

Thank you SS, I'll sleep okay if I can avoid the dreams. Darned things.

Look into rocket, haw haw. Yes, do look into it. It's great on sandwiches. Combine with a good piece of bread, a good piece of cheese, maybe a tomato if you can find a decent one, and some prosciutto if you're into that meat thing.

Nighty night,

GC

Something else, before I forget...

The sparrow and I were married in the Catholic church. Now, I'm not a practicing Catholic, which may be a problem. But I'm not NOT a Catholic either, right?

If I'm divorced, and it's possible, I'd like to approach the Church about having my marriage annulled.

Should I let my W know I plan to do this, or should I just leave it on the shelf?

That's right, ss. The only way for a thinking, caring, thoughtful, empathic individual - male, female, or whatever <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> - is the high road.

There's no other way. And it does take an incredible amount of time for the epiphanies 2 come. My latest is "do no harm." Same thing as saying "don't LB", but feels different, more substantial 2 me somehow.

The weather here is wonderful! A little cool, certainly for So Cal, but warm for SF this time of year. Clear, sunny days, and not so cool in the evening that I was uncomfortable in my Santa T-shirt walking back from dinner just now.

Pretty!

-ol' 2long

Thanks 2long, I've been wondering about you, but you seemed to be so busy............

Tell JL hi for me, I'd like to shake his hand sometime, and thank him for all he's taught me.

You've taught me a lot too - just so you know.

SS

If I'm divorced, and it's possible, I'd like to approach the Church about having my marriage annulled.

Should I let my W know I plan to do this, or should I just leave it on the shelf?

Just do it quietly, then send her the paperwork.

SS

Couple of things, if you are in a no-fault state, then how could sparrow use the emails against you? for what purpose would that serve? she's the one that had the A, so unless she's going to sue you for slander or something like that I don't see how they could be used against you. Same thing for car4love, the OM's the one that had the A, why would they want to use something like that? Florida is also a no-fault state and the only time that adultery would play a part is if I could prove (or needed to prove) that the WS spent $$ on the OP. Is that what you think the sparrow might do in some twisted way? is say you used her money for the email?

as far as the anullment thing, well to put it bluntly, if you're not catholic then why does it matter if it is anulled? it would be more of a concern to sparrow if she is catholic then it would be to you. I mean honestly, it's just samantics because you still will be divorced legally speaking (according to the government). i think that's why or howmy STBX family just cast me aside so easily because we were never married in the catholic church (his family is catholic) so even though we will be getting divorced, to them we were never married in the first place so it's really of no consequence. it might have mattered to them if we had kids but since we didn't it's off with the wife.

anyway, enough of my rant, continue to keep us posted. also to pigtail on what you said about the start of their R (sparrow and om), that's exactly what SH said to me and it was so profound that i actually said it to WH, his mom, and the OW's mom. Because that's the truth of the matter, in that their R started as an A and that will never ever change, no matter what happens. but that is a bed they made and they will have to lay in it.

RR

<small>[ December 14, 2004, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong> DV, I'm having an awful time letting go, but I'm feeling okay. Just very ambivalent. I still haven't all the way accepted that I'm getting divorced. You could call it hope, or you could call it not standing up against someone who has hurt me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did too. For me, moving on (literally - getting a new place to live) has made a big difference. But, you can move on in your head too. Here's what I did - I decided to examine patterns in our M that are surfacing yet again as we negotiate the end. And, I'm seeing traits in him and how he perceives certain kinds of things very differently from me - things that I believe go back to his family background. The more I look at these things, the more I realize there is quite a large gap in mindset between us. For example, he tends to see examples of things and generalize them into something that reflects on him - when it was NOT about him. Then he applies it to other things, and decides everything is about him. Often HE is the farthest thing from my mind when I make a comment. He is really over sensitive - and even though he has had trouble with this at work too, and got in trouble for blowing up and walking off the job one day, he still doesn't see it as his issue.

Anyway, short story long I guess - the point really is that because I know every end also means a new beginning, I'm looking for the new things - or removal of old things - that will make my NEW life better. And it really is helping me get through it. It remains to be seen how I will feel once I'm really gone and spending X-mas alone, etc. etc. - but I think I've finally let go and also (shock!) that I don't want to go back any more. (I can't believe I said that!)

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But don't worry about me; I'm looking out for myself first.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good! Keep it up - you deserve to be happy.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't get through how it will be for the sparrow. I can't see a way out for her. ...

So looking at it from her perspective, there is no way to be free...

I want to help her. But it has a condition, and she doesn't want that...

But I can't stop her from choosing it, and I have to let her go. I'm trying. I tell myself all the time that I must. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, for sparrow - so sorry, so sad. It's not much different from an alcoholic - you can't stop them from killing themselves, and at least she's not doing that. I hope you can get past wanting to help her, and go for the tough love thing instead. Sounds like she is good at avoidance, and it is time she steps up to the plate ALONE and accepts responsibility for her own decisions and actions. How else can she get past this and become a better person? Whether you are in the picture or not... she may need to make changes if she is going to ever have a healthy relationship. I'd be surprised if you could go back to beint with the same person you were with before - without any changes - after all this. It seems to me you want better than that, and so you should.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know I deserve better. But part of me still believes in her... I'm not a fast griever, I suppose. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And that's the part of you that proves you deserve better! Take the time you need - it will only strengthen your resolve in whatever direction it takes you. If I don't talk to you again soon, please take care and have a good holiday season!

Hmmm. GC, the e-mails in that account were written by you, yes, but they were also written by all the people who sent you e-mail. All of those people have copyright on their materials. If those materials were provided to YOU in an e-mail address that was for your use, and the sparrow now has them, I believe all of those people have the right to complain to the ISP that their property has been used for purposes that they did not give permission for. Unless the information was obtained with a search warrant (which it doesn't sound like it was), I suspect your friends could raise quite a stink and demand that all e-mails that they sent be returned to them.

Check with your attorney to see how this all flies, but surely there are quite a number of friends and family of yours who would be interested in having their words returned to them -- and not used in a manner for which they were not designed, by people they didn't address the e-mail to.

J, I like that idea. Hopefully I'll get a chance to discuss it with my extremely busy attorney pretty soon. I got more than I bargained for by hiring a lawyer who is a two-time BS. We get on famously, and she's doing what I need her to do.. but I can see she also wants me to get divorced and be free.

My memories, my promises, and my dreams of a future with my wife are all important to me, and giving up on them challenges me. But they are also a part of my past. They remain, unchangeable, regardless of what happens now. But I have to be willing to give up the life I thought I would have.

I've also begun thinking of the last seven months as a form of abuse. I've begun to wonder if the need to hold on isn't a little victim-like.

From that perspective - viewing my wife as someone who wants to abuse me - I see that the only way to be free might be to turn my back on her and start a new life.

So much to give up...

Oh, hey, thanks to 2long, RR, DV, SS...

Regarding the annullment - I may choose one day to become a Catholic, or I may choose one day to marry a Catholic. I would like both to be options for me.

Yakity yak. Sorry, had music rehearsal tonight, which always makes me chatty.

GC

well i understand now why the question about anullment. unless there is some kind of timeframe that would occur, i would almost cross that bridge when and if it comes.

hope you're doing well and keeping an eye on all those little snowflakes for us. BTW I "named" my truck snowflake, obviously because it's white and because i seemed to always be in cold weather areas..........God Bless, RR

Doing okay. New feeling today.

I feel sorry for my wife, for real.

I saw a photo of her today, saw the old person in that face, and felt a deep, deep sadness for her, that she's got herself stuck where she is.

And there's nothing I can do.

I remember the last time I saw her, three months ago. She talked about how unpleasant it was, collecting her things. When I pointed out that it was all her choice, she dismissed what I said, clearly expressing her belief that there was no alternative for her. When she cried, I hugged her, her arms hanging at her side, my hand on the back of her head. She melted into my embrace, but after a few seconds she backed away suddenly, wiped her eyes, and got out of there.

GC

Sorry, no rocket, just turnips.

SS

(tents fingers)
Excellent. I can't wait!

GC

GC, you haven't been on I'ville for a while.

I noticed you said on another thread that there aren't that many FWW's around to give insight. What am I, chopped liver? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Just kidding. There are lots of us you silly boy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> How about Myrta, KYellow, Knewbetter, Aussieswife, Buttercup:CC, Hope4future (who hasn't been around on the board for a while and I miss her). I know I'll think of some others soon.

Jen

L.I.T, Faithfull Follower, Faithfully Hoping.

There'll be more when I think of them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Jen

NotOnlyWords. Eeyorelover(getting there and I'm sure she'll make it.)

Keep 'em comin' Jen.

I haven't been feeling very idiotic. I think I'll be back soon though.

I think the sense that there aren't more FWWs all over is because as a BH, there's something you always want to hear when you're trying to preserve hope:

"I was exactly like your wife, and the circumstances of my affair were the same, and I came home."

Ridiculous. But sometimes, especially in the early days, those little threads of similarity are like daisies on the side of a cliff that we want to grab hold of, in hopes that they'll keep us from falling.

Actually, H4F seems to have had an experience pretty similar to my WW's, except she never pursued a divorce like my wife has. Doh!

Bless your heart, Kiwi. Summer shaping up down there in utopia?

GC

Gray,

I just read your post on anothers, and I wanted to say that I don't think anyone would have thought her affair would still be going on.

I sure hope you are going good. You sound okay but you have that sadness in your posts that is hard to miss.

It will be nice to see you happy, and I'm sure it won't be long now before this horrible cloud which has surrounded you these past months lifts for good and you will be happy go lucky once again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

weaver

Thanks weaver. I thought the thing would have run its course by now. These two people are absolutely transformed, apparently. They seem to have no redeeming characteristics any more. Horrible.

I just sent Xmas cards to most of the sparrow's extended family, and I mailed gifts to MIL and SFIL. I kept the messages in the cards short, simple, and light. Felt good for a bit to have done all that. I suppose it will make some of them nervous.

GC