Just search for "The Other Woman" and you are there. I guarantee you will only stop there once for its BS central!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Michael, don't go there and GC, you stop going there too. THAT'S an order!

The first time I had a look there it made me feel creepy and unclean and not because I'm a FWW. Even at my deepest, darkest, foggiest moments I knew I was wrong, morally and personally. It's the justification and skewed reasoning that's so creepy over there.

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Have I got this tortured logic about right?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it sounds like you have it right. Is Car4love doing ok? You sound pretty strong lately yourself. But please stay away from that OTHER site. It is just too sickening. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Hi GC,

Thought I would check in on you after a long while.I liked your post about the illogical thinking of a WS when it comes to the marriage ending.In my case,my WH informed me that "WE both let the marriage die".Hmmm. I never knew that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He takes responsibility,but refuses to make things right or give the marriage a chance.We are at a point now where we both just want it to be over and fast.My WH because the longer he has to interact with me,he has to look at me or hear the voices in his head about what he did and what he is throwing away.If he is far away from me,those little voices are so small he can probably shut them out completely by going out to some bar,talking to his homewrecker who is supporting him leaving me and our children or by working himself to death.And now it's best if I live without him so we can all be better off mentally,as he says.Yah.

So what is the deal,are you getting a D or is it on hold? Maybe I should go back a reread a bit.I haven't been posting as much the last few days,too tired to and just reading is depressing right now for me.It's probably them holiday blues.

**I agree.Newbies(like michael) should NOT go to the TOW board.It's pure he** and revolting.You have to have a thick skin and be passed the A crappola a good ways before you venture over there to stomach it.

O

FF, I haven't talked to car4love in several days. We sent each other Xmas cards, but have been otherwise a bit outta touch.

O, thanks for stopping by. My D is about to become full speed ahead, it seems. After sparrow did nothing for almost two months, a letter came from her lawyer the first week of December - "come on, come on, let's hurry up and get this done" sorta thing. My lawyer and I played phone tag for a week, and another letter arrived, "come on, come on, let's get these two divorced before year's end". That one is dated 12/15, there are several BIG unresolved issues, and all of a sudden I'm supposed to scramble around during the holidays to make the D happen quickly. Yeh right. Cram it, I say.

I'm meeting my lawyer in the morning, and we'll go from there. I'm supposed to sign off on the title to the sparrow's car, which has been delivered to my attorney's office.

There is no earthly way this will be done by Friday. I don't know if the sudden urgency is related to piddly tax issues (what the sparrow's lawyer claims) or if it's because car4love's due date is beginning to loom (1/29).

I'm suddenly freaked about New Year's. It was always a big deal to the sparrow. She lived for her New Year's kiss. A couple of women friends and I were thinking about going to dinner at this place where SIL works, and I freaked at the possibility that the sparrow might be there, and then started remembering that kiss that was such a big deal to her, and thought of her and OM on New Year's and... you know the rest.

GC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm suddenly freaked about New Year's. It was always a big deal to the sparrow. She lived for her New Year's kiss. A couple of women friends and I were thinking about going to dinner at this place where SIL works, and I freaked at the possibility that the sparrow might be there, and then started remembering that kiss that was such a big deal to her, and thought of her and OM on New Year's and... you know the rest. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GC, I am so sorry for this. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I think New Year's would be tougher than Christmas in your sitch. Please try to surround yourself with friends and have a good time. Try to put the picture of sparrow and OM out of your mind. Can you go somewhere that you know for sure Sparrow won't be at? Not sure I understand why getting D before car4love is due is so important. It is still his child right?

FF, thanks.

I feel like I haven't been pulling my weight around here. I see a million threads that I'm just plain clueless about...

And I'm sorry for that.

So here's my latest.

I met with my lawyer today. We have a good rapport, and after we'd settled the business of the day, she told me about finishing her divorce a few weeks ago (her XH is a serial cheater), then asked me a bunch of personal questions about the sparrow. She had an interesting perspective.

I talked about how the sparrow was very flighty (haw haw) before she and I got together. Early in all this, SIL told me this:

"When sparrow was little, she was the good sparrow, then she got into high school and became the evil sparrow. When she met you she turned back into the good sparrow, and now she's back to being the evil sparrow."

I told my lawyer about how my W had never to my knowledge actually stayed in the place she rented last summer because she "didn't want to be alone". I described our last meeting, how the sparrow said,

"At least you get to feel good about yourself."

I told how at the end of that meeting I found her in the bathroom crying, and I started to cry and held her for a bit, and she went limp and kind of melted into me with her arms hanging at her sides, but after a few seconds collected herself and backed away, then left.

My lawyer said,

"Well, then you know how she feels. She still loves you, but she's distracted herself. She'll be fine as long as she's got something shiny to focus on."

She made a fist and waved it around and followed it with her head. Then she said,

"For a long time, you were her shiny thing, but she got distracted. Now either OM will dump her or she'll realize what an a-hole he is and get rid of him, and then she'll remember you, and one day..."

She rapped her knuckles on her desk and said, in a fake, high-pitched, pretend-sparrow voice,

"'Honey, can I come back in?'"

Then she said,

"But you'll be done with her."

Her description felt so true, and devastating. That stuff about my W needing a shiny thing to follow was right on. I wish the sparrow could be her own shiny thing.

I took the rest of the day off and met my friend for lunch, and the two of us bought records and looked at guitars and came back to my house and drank a bottle of wine and listened to The Flaming Lips and Jerry Lee Lewis.

GC

GC,

Listenin' to the Killer with a buddy and some wine, huh? Maybe it's just me, but somehow I can envision "Goodness, Gracious! Great Balls of Fire!" playing in the background! heehee. Was there "A Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> "Good Golly Miss Molly", "Rockin' Pneumonia", "Roll Over Beethoven", and "Chantily Lace" are also some of my personal favs. Once, when I was very young, I had the pleasure of seeing the Killer at a concert...he played his piano like no man I had ever seen before (or since) and it reminded me of Jimmy Hendrix in a way. It was like he knew those keys intimately, just like Jimmy knew his guitars inside and out.

Anyway, I am unfocused here. I think your lawyer offered a wonderful illustration of how the sparrow operates. I guess what makes me kinda sad is that line you wrote (paraphrasing): "I wish she was her own shiny thing." That really is the deep, underlying problem of it all. Rather than loving themselves and respecting themselves, some WS's have such low self-value and self-worth that they just can't look at themselves for love and acceptance--so they get distracted by shiny things and things that offer OUTER love and acceptance rather than INNER love and acceptance.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Let's face it, dude. If your sparrow or my wolf loved themself and found deep inner self-worth, they would not need to turn to other "lovers" for validation that they are loved and wanted. It would be within! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Meanwhile, you know what I take from all this? It is DARN important for me to continue to find self-worth and self-value from within--and if I need to feel valuable, I find value in my intrinsic rarity and uniqueness. After all, I am the only 5ft. bombshell I know! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />


CJ

Wow, down to page 4!

My prospective tenant stopped by today. It looks like she probably won't be moving in. She wants to go to school in the spring, and she doesn't need a place until March anyway.

If she doesn't get accepted into grad school, she'll need a place, otherwise I'll have to find someone else.

Darn it. She was my only prospect, and I'm bummed. But maybe it's for the best - she's smart, interesting, and quite pretty. Recipe for trouble.

GC

New Year's was a little crazy, though the sparrow had nothing to do with it.

Me, the drummer in my band - call him Crow - and a woman I work with - call her Amelia - and Amelia's friend from out of town - call her Clarice - met for dinner, then went to see a band I know, where other good pals were in attendance.

I was quite sad, and retreated to a dark corner of the club a few times to just soak in the atmosphere and the stuff I was feeling. But I also danced and clowned and had an okay time.

Later, we headed back to the ladies' hotel room. Crow and Clarice were pretty smashed and started messing around a bit. Amelia and I had drunk far less, and were both steady.

Amelia and I got out of there, but there was really nowhere to go, since everything was closed. Drunk revelers roamed the halls of the hotel.

We sat in the vending machine room on the smoking floor for a while, smoking and chatting. After a while we went back to the room. Crow and Clarice were sort of wrapped around each other in Clarice's bed, fully conked.

Amelia put on her PJs and brushed her teeth, then invited me to sleep into her bed. Confident that she wasn't expecting anything, I said the wrong thing.

I said, "Okay."

She's been a great friend this year and has been there for me more than just about anyone else. She's single and she's cute, but I figured I'd done a perfectly good job of "friending" her.

By the way, I had not planned to crash in this hotel room.

I should have called a cab.

I brushed my teeth, then came out, grabbed the extra blanket from the closet, pulled a pillow off the bed, and hit the floor. Amelia gave me the hell of a hard time about it. She said stuff like "I don't bite" and said I was hurting her feelings. It was tough. I said, "Amelia, I love you, but I am still married and I have to protect this boundary. I know you think it's pointless and crazy, but that's how it is. There is not a woman in the world I'd get in that bed with tonight."

She said, "You are so stubborn!" I said, "So are you, but there's nothing you can say or do that will change the fact that I'm sleeping down here tonight."

Terribly cold, and smelling like one big ashtray, I slept horribly on the floor of that hotel room.

Today Amelia came over and gave me my present - a replacement for something the sparrow took from our house.

I don't like my life so much right now. I still miss the nutty sparrow. I hate that I might never speak with her again. I hate everything she's done. I still feel discarded and rejected. I worry that 2005 is not going to be so swell.

But at least my conscience is still clean.

Night MBers.

GC

Hats off to you, Gray,
for having clean conscience.

I feel so empty and deprived of love, touch, etc that had I been in your situation and felt desired I would give in.

I gave plan B letter but H remained at home and now returned after leaving for holidays. No communication as I stopped any attempt after handing the letter. I avoid being in his presence.

Gray, I am still lurking though I don't post much.

It is not easy to be the decisive one when you love the WS.

I wish you all the best for New Year.

FBOW

SS asked how the healing is going...

It's not. I could whine away at this thread, but instead I'll just say I'm stuck in the funk, and I think it partly has to do with clinging to hope for my M to survive, which it almost certainly will not.

See, even one paragraph comes across as a big "Boo hoo."

GC

Hey Grey,

t'aint nothing wrong with a little Boo Hoo, or a great big BOO either for that matter, and Yogie don't think there's nothing wrong with Boo Boo! LOL

You know you don't have to stop loving her, you just have to accept that this is the way things are for right now. But the beautiful thing about life is that we never know what could be right around the corner. Isn't that wonderful? (okay I might have gone a bit too far with that last one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Guess what I'm going to have for supper? Asparagus dip, with tortillas fried crisp in olive oil and a really good Beaujolais. Now doesn't that sound good? I worked out tonight, so I'm cool.

Hang in there Gray...I know it's tough but what else can we do?

"I've finally realized now, that you just have to keep breathing. Tomorrow the sun will rise, and who knows what the tide will bring." Tom Hanks (Castaway, 2000)

That movie had a lot of life lessons in it GC. That quote is really the whole story in a nutshell. Keep breathing, keep trying, keep your head up.

One day the tide will bring something ... probably when you least expect it and probably something you weren't looking for. But it will be a wonderful something.

Chin up GC.

Gray:

Even if you smelled like one big ashtray (iew!), I think you smelled like roses that night. I'm proud of you.

It might've been a much better idea to catch a cab, it's true. (Remember that for future reference, eh?) But on the way down that slippery slope, you caught yourself and made a good choice. THAT is more important than where along the slide you decided to stop.

Good for you.

And Amelia -- whether she knows it or not -- just saw something that should make her proud to know you.

Oh, and about that funk? If you haven't cried yet, you might as well go ahead and get it over with. Seems like sometimes the waves of sorrow just have to have tears or you can't get through 'em. The longer you fight it, the longer it lasts.

Nice stuff, Tom. I dug that picture. Zemeckis really knows what he's doing.

You know, J, I hadn't thought of that moment when I resolved to hit the floor as a huge victory. I just stood staring into the bathroom sink for a few seconds and realized it was the only thing to do.

What's it they say - some of the most important moments, you don't realize they were a big deal until later.

Crying is rare for me. In a way, I like when it happens. It's such a relief, and it makes me feel incredibly "alive".

Weaver, thanks for what you said about continuing to love my wife. Nobody seems to want me to do that any more. It postpones my recovery, I think, but still seems right.

On New Year's Day I took a swim and a good long sauna to sweat out the previous night's craziness. All gone!

GC

Good for you GC...i am happy to hear that you are still sticking to your boundaries.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Something else happened on New Year's Eve.

The band I saw - the main dude is kind of a friend, and the rest I know only casually.

One of my friends asked the drummer if his wife was there. He replied, "We're separated, but everything is going to be okay." My cheat-dar went off.

I felt I'd heard of WSes saying some variant of "everything is going to be all right" a few times before on this board. And the sparrow said it to MIL one time right after she left, as her affair was gathering steam.

At midnight, some woman, not the drummer's wife, came up to the stage and gave him a kiss, a real one.

He has two kids.

Sad, sad, sad.

GC

GC,

There is an epidemic out there. I have been told so by many people lately - people who deal with the public and especially with people in transition, and they are saying they've never seen such a run on divorces.

A friend of mine was just informed last week by her H that he wanted out too.

I'm thinking of opening a boarding house for separating people. I could make a living at it.

Seriously, I don't blame you for hanging on emotionally to sparrow. I'm doing the same thing, at least part of the time. I talked to H for about 2 hours on the phone on NY Day, and have had disturbing dreams ever since. Dreams that I wake from and think we have reconciled. Very unsettling. Then I can't get back to sleep. This is taking a toll on me, that I hope will end soon.

OTOH, he has not mentioned the D word lately, including last weekend when he said we would have to do taxes but that was about the only thing still dangling, he said (no mention of D). Of course I (in my dreams) read too much into that. Oh well. It's a rocky road, but it's the high road and one we may both have to keep coming back to for awhile.

The good news is however things end up, maybe we will both know we did what we could do, and can move on (with or without spouses) - and with no regrets.

Take care!

P.S. You gave me some grief last fall about my negative-sounding signature line - how do you like my new one?