GC,

I understand very well your desire to be understood..to bare the pertinent points of that journal to her and..and..that's the clincher isn't it?

You are quite correct.

Your short letter, is the sort, that would haunt me the rest of my life.

Your short letter, is the sort, that would haunt me the rest of my life.

That's because of the kind of person you are Noodle.

I wonder if unrependent WS's are even able to internalize anything even remotely related to causing another pain.

My DD's dad thinks I am the slime of the earth. I honestly think that now he would gladly take my DD from me and not look back. To him I am the devil in desguise, or worse a non-entity. And I have done nothing but treat him fairly and decently since I was pregnant.

So what effect parts of the journal would have on the sparrow is questionable. I for one wouldn't waste my time and energy with sending her anything, I would make her a non-entity. Not worthy of putting pen to paper.

But that is just me, the jaded one. (lately it seems anyway)

Weaver, that's remarkable. I think you're right. They lose their ability to have empathy, at least for the people they themselves have hurt. Hope4future has written about this.

I don't have the feeling the sparrow thinks I'm slime. I reckon she considers me sanctimonious and disagreeable though.

Maybe a short farewell letter, but no magna carta. We'll see...

GC

Gray --

I've been where you are, I understand what you've done. I've been there, I did it too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having been faithful to your marriage. Nothing at all wrong with simply saying, "No really, I meant it."

And now that it's ending, I can certainly understand trying to figure out what to say.

We all do these things differently, but here's a few thoughts for you.

Whatever letter you write, write it for you, not for her. Write the ending of your marriage, the cutting of the bonds. Write YOUR choices, not her mistakes. Write what YOU are doing and want, not what she is doing and wants.

Write that letter. That one will set you free, if you let it.

Write it not about your hurts, but about your healing. Write about freedom. Write the future, not the past. Better yet, write the present.

gc:

I agree with JJ. Write such a letter for you.

If you send anything 2 her at all, send something that clearly acknowledges the ending that's occurred, but don't burn the bridge she could come back on if she ever wakes up, because I'll bet you'll try 2 help if she ever asks for it.

-ol' 2long

I will do it that way...

RAR! These lawyers are p$$ng me off. Especially sparrow's lawyer, Cruella. She's nagging me, through my lawyer, to hurry. I've been actively working with a mortgage broker to try and find some way of giving the sparrow what she wants, and what do I get? "Faster! Faster!"

The court already has set a deadline for this agreement, so I don't know what the additional nagging is about. Cruella claims it's for the purpose of filing 2004 taxes, but that doesn't make any sense.

Cruella also told me to hurry it up after court, when we were leaving. I just glared at her. Here I am, feeling like hell, and she's trying to crack a whip at me.

No wonder people hate lawyers.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

GC

gc:

Definition of cryin' shame: A busload of lawyers going off a cliff with 2 empty seats.

Can you just ignore her lawyer?

Sounds like you're doing what is required of you in the time it's required. I'd do no more.

-ol' 2long

Gray,

NCW

<small>[ February 25, 2005, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: ncwalker ]</small>

Ambivalent.

Technically do not want to get divorced, but can't imagine ever letting my WW into my life.

Last night I dreamed the sparrow and I were back together and we went to one of her family's holiday gatherings. Being with her was a humiliation.

My increasing desire to protect my self-respect now competes with the diminishing wish to have anything to do with my WW.

I suppose I first felt this ambivalence strongly during the holidays... long after I started telling myself I have to move on.

Now I just want the shift to happen quickly.

Twelve days ago, I quit smoking. I didn't want to quit, but I wanted to want to quit. So I motivated myself.

I want to not want my wife anymore. Trying to think of ways to motivate myself there.

It would be nice if I were dating. That would probably help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

GC

GC

Here is my email address email me.....I do not have your email address...

schluter@frontiernet.net

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Twelve days ago, I quit smoking. I didn't want to quit, but I wanted to want to quit. So I motivated myself.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You go guy! I love to dring wine and smoke cigarettes. What a drag to have to quit because we are adults now, and must be mature. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Drag, drag, drag!

gc:

OT, 2 cheer you the hell up:

From an old "Snappy answers 2 s2pid 2uestions" in Mad Magazine (when I was but a child)...

Q: 2 what do you owe you're long life?

A: 2 the fact that I haven't died yet.

-ol' 2long

Weaver, I made pasta and tomato sauce tonight (I make amazing tomato sauce), and cracked a cab that's been on my counter for a couple of weeks.

I finished my pasta and topped off my wine... and it's a small miracle I didn't put on my shoes and walk, hell, run, hell, sprint to the corner for smokes.

The physical addiction has been no problem. I've always been a light smoker. But these rituals I have to abandon are such a bummer.

I know I can't have cigarettes any more, light smoker or not. The guck I hawk up every morning before I get into my car is proof enough of that.

But I still have that little devil on my shoulder saying, hey dude, cigarettes are a nice little bonus every now and then. You can just have one after a dinner. Why should you deprive yourself? You didn't smoke that much.

Stupid El Nico, trying to trick me.

GC

GC, if you've got 'em, smoke 'em. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sorry, I can't help myself. I just can't give them up.

Would everyone please lay off lawyers. I know it's funny and all but my late father was a wonderful, humanitarian lawyer who everyone loved and it really p's me off when everyone finds it hilarious to have a go at lawyers in general.

OK, said my piece. Going now.

Jen

<small>[ March 01, 2005, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: KiwiJ. ]</small>

Jen

We had such a lawyer like your dad in town. Everyone loves him and I was told that even the girls who work at Friend of the Court would always put his stuff through first, sit on the lawyers whom they didn't like. I guess games are played depending on how likeable the lawyer is, anyway...

I called him hoping to retain him for something I am going through now (just to get him in case I need one) and he left town. Entered a monestary and is now going to be a monk! Can you believe it?

PS. you'll quit smoking when you are ready to, must not be your time yet.

Kiwi:

Hey, I don't hate all lawyers, just enough of them 2 fill a bus, that's all.

Some of my best friends are lawyers.

-ol' 2long

Today I received an email from my W about picking up things this weekend, forwarded through her lawyer and then through mine. She doesn't use her sister as an intermediary any more, just the lawyers.

When I read my lawyer's message, and saw there was a message written by the sparrow attached to it, I had that old familiar feeling. A wave of pain and grief washed over me.

In the message, she referred to the garage where her things are stored as "Gray's garage".

She's found a way to not feel sorry for doing this, I think. I hate that. I hate that she sees our time together as "growing up", as she puts it. I hate that she thinks her nasty affair is okay. I hate that she can move on with her life and feel like everything is fine. I have that feeling, that she feels it's all okay. I don't think she's going to have any moments of clarity. I have already become a distant memory to her. I can't express how much that hurts me. It's like an eradication.

I'm okay, folks. I'm just putting on some heavy mileage. I heard a song the other day... a woman tells a man she likes his eyes, and he says,

"I got these eyes from cryin'."

Isn't that cool?

GC

Evil genius that I am, I post at midnight on Friday when I'm guaranteed the lowest number of potential responses.

Sparrow comes over tomorrow to get the last of her belongings.

Still hurts, yeah.

So I've been thinking of my last communication with the sparrow. I'm not obsessed by it, but in idle moments, I think about what I'd like to tell her. I plan to write a short letter to her when the divorce is final.

I don't plan to focus on the past, and on negative, horrible stuff. But nonetheless, tonight, I want to write some "venty" things (but believe you me I have no intention of actually putting such a screed to paper and giving it to my wife):

Getting served her divorce papers, I felt like somebody had come to kill me. It really did feel just like I imagine it would feel to have a hit man come to the door.

Every step I've had to take - opening a new bank account, hiring a lawyer, arranging for an appraisal, setting up meetings with a mortgage broker, getting a new loan for my car, having her name removed from the gas bill, changing the locks, telling my friends, telling my family, reaching out to strangers for help, reaching out to her family for support, telling my boss, seeing a doctor to get antidepressants, finding a personal counselor... each of these steps was the result of some measure of coercion, each involved some degree of humiliation for me.

In short, each of the things I've had to do has injured me.

Love is a choice. The sparrow is dead wrong to believe otherwise. I choose to love her. I'm a better man for it. I'll soon choose to stop loving her. Knowing the real nature of love in this way will make me a better partner, and will protect my relationships in the future.

I feel vaccinated against infidelity. I know that I will never do it. There's simply no way it will happen.

I have never violated my promises to the sparrow. I have never given any of myself to another woman to the exclusion of my wife.

I have never intentionally done her harm or wished pain on her. I have never broken my loyalty to her. I would never knowingly hurt her for my own pleasure.

With her gone from my life, I will also never excuse her for what she's done. That doesn't mean I'm not forgiving. It means that without making amends for what she's done, she will never be off the hook as long as either of us lives.

What happened did not just happen. It was the result of conscious decisions, decisive actions done by the affairees that they knew would hurt people, and they did them anyway.

I try to be strong and principled. I try to face my problems. I acknowledge my faults and try to overcome them. I care about other people. I try to protect their feelings. I try to consider their needs, their wishes. I hope I do okay at these things. Sometimes I succeed at this, sometimes I fail.

I try to be courageous. Sometimes I surprise myself with my courage. Sometimes I'm surprised by my cowardice.

Well my heavens, it's late. Thanks for reading my vent. Worry not - I won't tell the sparrow most of this stuff. This one was for me, now.

GC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong> .... She's found a way to not feel sorry for doing this, I think. I hate that. I hate that she sees our time together as "growing up", as she puts it. I hate that she thinks her nasty affair is okay. I hate that she can move on with her life and feel like everything is fine. I have that feeling, that she feels it's all okay. I don't think she's going to have any moments of clarity. I have already become a distant memory to her. I can't express how much that hurts me. It's like an eradication....

GC </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi, Gray.

I know you are hurting.

I will tell you something. In the quoted excerpt above, you state that you don't think that the Sparrow will ever have a moment of clarity. Well, bud, you got that one, all wrong :-)

She will never be able to eradicate you from her mind. She is stuck, permanently, with the memory of you, and the kind way you have treated her this past year.

You may not believe this right now, but your memory and the memory of how she has treated you, will haunt her until the day she dies.

Hang in there, Gray.

All the best,
Gimble

What they have done will manifest in all areas of their psyche, in their internal and external world.

This is a universal truth, the one that says "as we sow, so shall we reap".

She and he are to be pitied really. Well pitied as much as you can pity someone who has caused such pain and destruction to others. And who have stolen the rightful family from little babies. And who would continue to try and destroy a young mother who has already suffered so much, and who must provide a stable, happy life for these babies.

<small>[ March 05, 2005, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>