Alright, Mr. Evasive, it is late so I am letting you off this one tonight. But I find it hard to believe you'd welcome the amourous attentions of just any old Hoochie Momma. . . unless I read you wrong? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Oh, good grief, was I totally off-base with that entire list LOL!?

Going to bed now. . . :: yawn ::

Goodnight y'all!


slh

Well, gc, imagine my surprise when I tried 2 put "Remember" in my sigline and got the message "Your signature is 2long!" Well, they spell it differenlty, but I thought it was pretty funny. Heck no, my sigline isn't 2long, *I'm* 2long!

-ol' 2long

Oh, wait, now do I get to make a list of all the BAD thing about GC? All the little bothersome things I've noticed and never commented on? All his irritating quirks and idiosyncrisies???????? No one said I could do THAT, too!!!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Mmmmmmwwwwhhhhaaaaa hhaaaaaa hhhaaaaa haaaaaaaaa!

You guys know i love you all.


slh

I love how you capiltalized "Girls", SS. Like we're some unfamiliar outlander, a Sassenach.

It's in caps because Girls are important. Even I know that.

SS

LOL, [color:"purple"] SS. [/color] You never were one of those guys who tugged on schoolgirls' pigtails, were you? You and I would have been good friends, unless, of course, you thought I had cooties. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thank you so much for the link you enclosed . . . especially for the time it took you to locate it and send it along. . . I really appreaciate it, SS. It was something I needed to read, and you would be surprised how much of it I found beneficial to my sitch. Despite the fact there have been no As in our marriage (and yes, I read between the lines at what you may've been pointing to <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ), there is an awful lot of resentment and also quite a load of unfulfilled ENs every day. For the first time in my life I can honestly feel what would enable a person to have an affair -- not that there is ever an excuse for one, please don't minsunderstand. If you have a moment, would you please read my last thread? It's as long as the one you suggested but if you have a moment I would really value your insight:

SLH's Petulant, Griping Unmet Needs Thread

Some great advice was given but we all know that your sensitive soul, SS, may have some additional acumen : great big smile :. I need to say again that my H is easily working 14+ hours a day, plus some weekends, and comes home literally dead to the world, so my asking for help with things sometimes reeks of selfishness . . . he just can't do it, physically. Most weekends are spent just trying to catch up with the myraid things that need to be done in order to raise a family in an older house. You would think I would know all of this and be sympathetic, but I do find that my needs are never being met in the rush, and I am becoming more and more resentful.

End slh gripe. . .

Binder exclaims girlishly:


Aaaaawwwwwww, [color:"purple"]Binder, 2long. . . [/color]you poor dahlins'; I see what's goin' on here. . . do you want me to write one about each of y'all, too? [color:"purple"] 2long,[/color] I know where your thread is; I've been reading it for weeks now, even though I haven't had much to offer in the way of advice. I can post your list there ASAP if you like for all to see. : guffaw : What would Pepper say? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You either, [color:"purple"]Binder[/color]; now don't tempt me, I can post yours on the OM thread I just came across. :wicked grin: Get me started on MORALS, you two. . . (St. Bindus & St. Lingerus!)

You are both fantastic guys and i would thoroughly enjoy humiliating you with many, MANY paragraphs of heartfelt and genuine adulation. [color:"red"] Mmmmwwhhaaaa hhhaaaa hhaaaa haaaaa![/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

On to other things. . . <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When is [color:"purple"] Weaver [/color] getting back? I am really missing her and hoping all is well.

[color:"purple"] Gray,[/color] you okay today?

Where's [color:"purple"] Faithful[/color] been? I know she's been feeling down latley. Has anyone heard from her lately?


slh
: off to begin her lists. . . devious chuckle :

Aw, SLH you are sweet. I am here, still down and hanging in Idiotville getting the laughs I so desperately need.

Gray, hope you are ok.

Thank goodness, FF. I was about to email you.

Glad you're doing okay. Yeah, I'ville has been rather. . . rambunctious lately. NCW & Jelly & Tama are all on a roll. I haven't checked in today, too easy to get sucked in and I have too much to do today, lol.

Want to email you later about our earlier AD discussion. Chores, first!

Hugs,

slh

SLH,
I never tugged on pigtails.

Many of my friends growing up were girls - from grade school - through HS. I would play dolls with them and so on. As far as friends, it was all the same to me. That is, as far as friends went.

I have read your thread........and am thinking. At the end, you say things are better. That can change daily. That fact that you asked me to read means you worry for long term.

It looks like the root is the long hours.
Your H can do it, but at great cost. If you knew now that the cost WOULD BE your marriage, what would you do differently?

Every one needs some personal time to be emotionally healthy. Time alone, time to unwind, time to let the brain cells rest.

Your H doesn't even have time for that, let alone for you.

You know all of that already, but needs are EMOTIONAL, and they don't respond well to logic. You know, but it doesn't matter that you know, the needs are still there.

In order to function, your H needs to put his needs first. The order is:

1. Himself
2. The marriage
3. The family

We can help no one when we are low ourselves. To help someone that is low requires that we be on higher ground than they are. For your H to do what he does (work long hours) requires that he withdraw to an extent from other things so that he can continue to work as he does.

Now, this is how it looks to me - and I am not an expert.

Must go for now. See you later.

Think on that question - if you knew that the marriage would fail if he continues to work these hours, what would you do?

SS

SS, thanks for looking at it at all. I know not every one abounds in time, and I appreciate your consideration.

I agree with the basis of what you've said, about the hours. We are hoping it is temporary. But the stress levels, my God. . .he has turned into the guy who does anything and everything for everyone at work because no one else can -- from Computer Tech to Printer HandyMan to Machinist to Drafter to Engineer (gee, his actual job) and even the boss' confidant. At BOTH jobs. He really feels the pressure, the bosses are griping about deadlines and how HE is the key to the company being successful (both small co.s), and his rearing (strict southern Catholic upbringing; I mean no offense to anyone but Catholicism has changed a good bit from what he calls "the Dark Ages", when Nuns would crack his knuckles repeatedly with a ruler for for such nefarious misbehaviours as bad handwriting, lol) has left him with a guilt complex and the urge to save the world, at any cost, LOL. "Everyone has to be happy", "Can't let anyone down" la la la la. Just wish he felt that way about US.

When I ask him to lower the boom, just a bit, he insists he is working so darn hard so that his company will reward him for his hours, time and support when they begin receiving more contracts. I understand and respect this. . .I just. . . I just. . .

I cannot believe I am a loss for words here. :: sarcastically :: Yes, Me. I guess I just want to stand up and yell, What about Me???

You're right, he has NO time to himself. None. Nada. Zilch. Believe me, I *do* encourage it (a night out with his friends, flying, etc) but he never takes me up on it. Don't ask me why. You can bet the moment he offers it to me, I am at the beach riding my horse!

Thanks again for your time SS. If you have anything to add, you can do so on the aforementioned thread, so the noble Gray doesn't kick me (or us) out for TJ'ing.

:: falling on knees, hands clasped before me, lips trembling in humility :: Have mercy, Gray!


I knew you never tugged pigtails. Doesn't seem like "you" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



slh

SLH... is your H a "fixer"? Sometimes we fixers overestimate our power to make things right all over the place, and we become guilty of benign neglect.

It's big pitfall that many of us fall into, compromising the pleasure of our journey for the sake of its destination. It's a lame cliche, and it could not be more true. You and your H have a destination you seek, and you're gritting your teeth and squeezing your eyes shut and grinding away in anticipation of that destination.

It's good to work hard and pay dues. But sometimes you get so caught up in all that, that your life goes out of balance, and you're paying too many dues and postponing too many of life's joys. And if you don't watch out, suddenly you're old. The only way to change that is to want to put things back into balance.

Do you like Tom Waits? I do. Mule Variations is a masterpiece. If you like his whiskey-soaked howling, and who wouldn't, it's a great record to have around.

And since this is my thread...

Two nights ago, after seeing a concert, it stormed. I got maybe four hours' sleep.

Last night, I did not sleep one wink.

I was thinking about forgiveness. I read about South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission, I believe the most honorable thing I've ever heard of a nation doing officially. A miracle.

I thought about my position on forgiveness, which until now has been that there is no real forgiveness without reconciliation. That it should have another name.

I'm beginning to see forgiveness as having degrees.

The thing I'm trying to understand... is how to forgive the sparrow without pardoning her, and without ever having any reconciliation or resolution, and without her seeking my forgiveness. Who would live like this?

I still have trouble distinguishing between forgiving her and excusing her for what she's done. How could I excuse her? She's done something horrible, something no decent person should ever dream of, and she isn't sorry. And we probably will not be reconciled, ever. I mean to avoid having anything to do with her, ever.

I feel horrible about that. She sent an email about something she wanted a few weeks ago. I tried to delete it without even reading the subject line. I felt like a stubborn a-hole for doing that, but any communication that comes from her hurts me. She's batted 1000 on that score for a year now.

I can't fit this puzzle together. I sat up all night last night trying. Once in a while I'd shut my eyes and try to sleep, but it was no good. The birds started to chatter, and I still puzzled. The sky lit up outside my windows, and I puzzled. I reached that state of vague despair you get when you stay up all night and you know you've spoiled the next day. Finally, I hung it up when my radio turned on, and I got up and went to work. Actually accomplished a ton today.

I've still got this here puzzle all spread out in front of me, and the pieces still don't fit.

Today was the anniversary of the day she told me she wanted to get divorced.

I feel fine. I'll sleep tonight.

GC

Graycloud:
You are on a journey that I have not duplicated. Mine is different than yours, but the advice is the same.

Sail on -
Sail on,
sail on and on.

SS

SLH,
I thought about posting on Gray's thread (to you) on the way home from work last night. Though I am (fairly) sure he doesnt' care, it WOULD be best to do it on yours.


Early in my time at MB, it was common for 4 or 5 good friends to share a thread. By that I mean someone started it, and it would end up that a small group would use it among them selves, all working on their own problems, however different they might be. People floated in and out giving advice but the core remainded. I have kinda come to see Grays thread as this type. (I am giving you my thought processes - what I realized as I laughed while I read your intreaty to Gray not to be upset at my thread jack.)

Anyway, I have tons more to say to you - we'll see how the time goes at work today.

So much to do, so little time. You would know it as well as any, better than most.

SS

Graycloud,
I am giving you this link because I think there is something in it for you.
The story is different, but the feelings are the same. Make sure you read part two.

Oswalds story of forgivness

Forgivness is something you need, not something she needs.

Lets see, I should stop.............. for now.

SS

SS, I appreciate you more than you know.

If time permits, please do pass on some advice. If it doesn't, please know I do understand.

I'm sorry I didn't understand the policies & protocol of the MB forum, LOL. I just saw the title of this thread and didn't want GC mad at me, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This morning I woke up to a printout sitting in the tray of my printer, still warm. H (who is in the Gulf of Mexico right now, using a computer to measure temperatures and strains at the bottom of the ocean) had remotely printed out the 8 pages for The Marriage Builders Home Study Courses. This was nothing that we had ever discussed, but it was welcome! It showed initiative and thoughtfulness on his part, and concern. I am only hoping that it is a reflection of his long-term commitment, and not the fact that he is missing me because he is away (which is so often the case when he is out of town).

Gray, you're right, the man is a fixer. And you hit our situation exactly on the head. We have been gritting our teeth and existing, but I miss living, you know? He must too. We need to get beyond this, together. We must.

He is supposed to return tonight, per Hurricane Arlene's threat. For the first time in a long time, I am really looking forward to it.


slh

Had you been dreading yesterday, Gray? Were your demons stalking you, biting and nipping, masquerading as a puzzle?

You made it. Whole.

So how did you sleep last night?

Well I hope. You need to be strong. It isn't over yet, my friend.

slh

I'm sorry I didn't understand the policies & protocol of the MB forum, LOL. I just saw the title of this thread and didn't want GC mad at me,

Oh no, I was agreeing with you and I have posted on your other thread, but I was just kind of saying out loud why I went ahead and posted on Grays thread. It's not done as much now, but it used to be common. I took Gray's kindness for granted, and should have checked with him first.

Him printing out MB stuff is a good sign.

SS

SLH, late last night, when I posted about that anniversary, that was the first it had occurred to me. So no, I hadn't been dreading it.

Slept like a dead man.

Today, off work. I'm making my fireplace pretty. The bricks were painted white long ago. My many efforts to get the paint off have turned it to a hideous eyesore. But it will be an eyesore no more.

SLH, you and H will be fine, just not automatically.

Why would any of y'all worry about posting on my thread? Of course I don't care.

GC

Didn't worry about it, but neither do I want to take it for granted. I used to do that way too much.

SS

I saw documentary years ago on this. There was a dramatic portion where an anguished man faced his wife's murderer. He told of his feelings when, in church, these thugs burst in and sprayed the congregation with bullets. He relayed in great detail his observations and feelings of his wife being struck by the bullets and dying as he watched helplessly. The man also was allowed to ask the murderer why he chose his wife to kill.

The murderer, through a translator I believe, coldly replied how there was not conscious decision, just a desire to kill borne out of rage/association or something like that.

The aggrieved man claimed forgiveness on the spot. The gesture was obviously wasted on this vacuous shell of a human who was simply exploiting the amnesty the program offered and by all rights really only deserved the quick end a contact wound that a small caliber handgun behind his ear would provide. The widower went on to exclaim his faith in God and how he realized that to move forward he must forgive and not allow the cycle of hate and vengeance to gain momentum. I knew watching that man I have a long way to go to even have that level of self actualization in sight.

I know you struggle with forgiving her who does not want it. I really don't think she has to even acknowledge it really. Does it not completely depend on your perspective and willingness to progress? If, one day, you realize you are more fulfilled, happier, maybe even in a better relationship, will you still struggle with this?

I don't really think it's an issue. You've not denied your grieving and I know your will pass through those "levels" of forgiveness in due time. Heck....maybe I will too.

In the meantime I simply pray she develops a chronic and particularly painful lower intestinal disorder characterized by severe cramping and gas.

I've got the marshmellows, can I join the campfire? Gray, got your guitar.