KA, what's a booty call? Haw, haw. Here at the monastery we've forgotten about such things.

Monday, Monday.

GC

Hello all....I was referred to come over here to this thread. Maybe I can give a little insight into what happens a year later after the D.
Thanks for the invite Graycloud

jrjr, what has changed since the D? Was there any recent development? You say she's probably living with this huntin' dude. Then you say the information that she's messing around with him old news. Which is it? Did you know she was cheating with the huntin' dude when your M ended? If so, what's new and surprising? That she isn't just messing around, but is actually living with him? That would be SOP for a WS. Maybe I could have read your thread more carefully, but I don't get it.

GC

Sorry about the confusion. Let me put some things in perspective.

Well, just before the separation or bomb drop day...before I even had a clue.....she went to visit this guy with a gf from her class. This was after the class had ended for about a month. She went over there & I was working.....it was New Years day. She called me that afternoon telling me in a voicemail that she was going to go over there to visit. Well, late that night I never got a call back telling me she got home ok. I called & called. No answer. She later, prob around 1-2 am, calls me to tell me she got home ok...that it was foggy outside & they had to drive slow. That they all went out to play pool & lost track of time.

Anyway, 2 weeks later is bomb drop day (Jan 17). She tells me the typical.."I'm not happy, etc". The next day I call her & want to talk to her. No answer. She calls later & tells me that she is at this guys parents house (30 miles from where we lived). That she is eating dinner with them & they are all riding 4-wheelers. That they are trying to cheer her up.

Well, between that time & when I filed in April....2 months time....I learn that she has gone over there about 3-4 times. Now remember, she has never been over there before that 1st time on New Years day. She even went on valentines day night to his sisters b-day party...which sounds odd to me. Who has a b-day on valentines night.

Anyway this guy was engaged a few months before. She told me before a few weeks before bomb drop-day that he had broken up with here. I dont think she would have gone over there to visit if he was still engaged. It all makes sense. They were consoling each other I suppose....barf

Well about 2 weeks after I filed, my cousin saw her in Walmart one day. My cousin told me that she looked rough, like she had been working outside all day. That she had some guy with her. My cousin couldnt remember any details about what the guy looked like. I suppose it was this same guy..helping her clean up a house she was renting.

In late May the D was final....a week before what would have been our 5 anniv.

Rush a year later....I havent heard anything from her...nothing. Ive instructed my family to not tell me anything about her. If they see her....I dont want to know about it. It was too fresh a wound to know back then.

Well, I google her name & our hometown.....a link pops up to a online guestbook for our hometowns sheriffs dept. She has signed it, stating that she is now working in a different town. It turns out she is working for the same dept as this other guy but at a different way-station....(both work for that countys sheriffs dept).

I can only assume that she has daily contact with him. No idea if he is living with her or not. I dont know anything that is going on in her life.

I had it right, then. But I don't get it! What part are you uncertain about? Between the "bomb drop" (did she admit to cheating then or just say "I'm not happy"?) and your divorce, you say you knew she was having an affair. Right? Well then, the fact that she's shacked up with the affair partner would fit with everything else.

Now, if she pretended she wasn't cheating, and pretended that Elmer Fudd was just a supportive pal, and said stuff like, "I haven't been happy for a long time" and "I love you but I'm not in love with you", well we know around here what those sayings are... they're WS code for "I'm cheating on you and I'd like to get rid of you with as little guilt and hassle for myself as possible so I'm going to pretend this is about something else."

So I don't mean to be insensitive, but knowing all that, my response to your suspicion that she's shacked up with Elmer Fudd is... well... my response is just, duh. Of course she is.

Look, jrjr. From the sounds of things, she fell for this Elmer Fudd fella, cheated on you with him, B.S.ed you into divorcing her, pretending he was "just a friend" helping her through this difficult time in her life, and now she's traveling the WS path exactly according to the textbook. My W is doing the same thing, except I didn't cooperate with the D, so she had to do it. It's funny how they do what they're going to do anyway.

For instance, the day the sparrow said she wanted to get divorced, she admitted that she and the tinman were planning to get together down the road, but since neither was divorced yet, they were "just good friends". Ha ha ha ha ha. They were boinking all over creation within days of that announcement, if not before.

If I'd believed her, I'd have thought she was extremely unhappy for years being married to me, that I was wholly responsible for the downfall of our marriage, that the tinman had nothing to do with her desire to leave me, that she was too principled to actually cheat on me for real, so on and so on.

Everything your W told you to get you to go along with the divorce and to do it quickly was pure B.S. But the part that's mind-blowing is that she believed most of what she was saying to be true.

WS are dishonest, selfish creatures who rationalize their cruelty and justify their downfall by pinning it on the person who loves them most. The human mind is remarkably adaptable. To survive, or to keep feeling a good feeling, the human mind is able to comfort a person's conscience while she does horrible, sometimes unspeakable, acts. I believe that this adaptability is at work in much of the human behavior commonly viewed as "evil". But I digress.

What's this box I'm standing on? What's that stamped on it? "SOAP"? Hm.

GC

That was beautiful Gray, just beautiful!

You are starting to remind me of a guy who came to my aide a little over a year ago, on this very merry same board.

His moniker starts with a W and ends with a T. I do believe you have grown. Cynacism has to come from someplace after all. Or how about experienced? I know, how about JADED? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Weaver, joining the ranks of the cynics herself. Now maybe I better learn how to spell it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Naw I'll just use the word realist.

I happen to agree with Weaver that the soapbox fits you nicely, GC. How are YOU, Weaver?

Hi Faith!

I'm doing okay, I'm doing pretty good concentrating at work today. Except when I digress to MB for a few minutes.

How are you?

Not having a good day, Weaver. Should be working but can't concentrate. I will get through it though, thanks! Glad you are doing better.

I hear what you are saying Graycloud. Ive been playing the denial game way too long. She never admitted to an A to either me nor to the psych counselor. She just stated that she was unhappy...."Ive got two paths I can go down....if I choose one I might regret not going down the other". I remember her saying that to me. I was hurt so bad knowing that I was an 'option'.

I had suspected of an affair after I started coming to this forum & people telling me the signs. It started to make sense.

Something odd though. I mentioned to her on the bomb drop that maybe she didnt get enough affection from me (which I knew couldnt be right...I emailed her everyday with little smiley faces & saying ILY all the time). She shocked me by basically saying that affection wasnt a top need for her.,...that she didnt need it. In an subsequent email, she mentioned that recreation was a very important need. I was clueless about that.

She also mentioned something very odd. Remember, we were living in different towns...I due to a new job. She mentioned to me that I could find another girl in the new town I was (still) living in. This was so odd to hear from her. Has anyone heard something like this before?

She never mentioned a D at all during that time. Just a separation. Its during that time that she didnt want any contact...except email & a phone calls. What sent me over the edge was her wanting to share the tax refund with me. I couldnt believe she wanted to stick it to me one more time.

Yeah, she is more than likely shacking up with him. I'm curious if she is. That means she is a loser like him. I so much want her to see me going on with my life.

About 9 months ago, I met someone else & things are really serious. Ive asked this person to marry me. She is super excited & Im looking forward to sharing my life with someone worthy. Deep down though, I do want the X to see that I have gone on with my life...and for her to hurt a little.

Faith,

I spent most of the weekend praying and asking God to take my burden and my pain from me. I surrendered it to HIM.

Now I am concentrating on simple goals, such as cutting the grass, working out. Forcing myself to go on.

I think you need to try with all you have to detach from hubby and your sitch. And concentrate on daily goals, and turning it over to God.

I also have sent DD with her dad. She won't be back for 4 1/2 months now, except for every other weekend starting in three weeks.

I am unable to be what whe needs right now. So my sitch is different than yours in that he is gone. I have no more decision to make, only the pain of trying to understand.

I wish we lived close by each other Faith.

jrjr,


Congratulations!

I'm not telling you what to do - and you shouldnt' listen to me if I do, but it seems you met this lady only 3 months after the D - and when you needed somebody to sooth your wounded pride. If I were in your postion, I might do the same. It must feel good. Just be careful you don't hurt yourself again by moving into this relationship too soon. It's clear that you still haven't gotten 100% over what happened with your XW. If wanting to hurt your X is a big part of your motivation in establishing this new relationship, it could cause big problems down the road - for you and your new love.

Is that why you are here?

-AD

Gray - BRAVO!

Everything you said - so dead on, right down to believing the b.s. they spew as it comes out!

Bring out more Gray on the soapbox! I'm so small I look up to everybody but you intelligent, made taller by way of soapbox standing types are All Right!

Sally

I know you are right, very difficult for me to pull off but necessary for my health.

I really admire you for this Weaver.

Me too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I need some IRL friends that really understand. I have two good friends but their kids are young and they don't have much time.

Gray,
Thanks, she is a special person in my life. I asked her on Christmas day. We have beeen planning things since then. Next year, we will get married...April.

No, I thought about what I had said earlier & I dont want it to sound like I want this new relationship to be a motivator for getting back at the xw. Its far from that. Let me just say that when the xw learns that I have moved on, that it wouldnt bother me at all if she got hurt a little by it.

I could care less about the xw. She is redneck trash. She will never go anywhere except stay in the same crappy little town & play cops.

Gray, I suppose I came back to MB just to get rid of that small amount of denial that I had left in me. I wanted someone to counsel me & to tell me in plain english what they think went on in my situation....to tell me that I was a good guy. I got so used to that worthless MC playing games with my head. I want someone whos been thru it all & tells me the truth..something I didnt get alot of last year.

Pffft! Typical. WS wanted you to have an affair too, so you'd be equally diminished, and to guarantee that your marriage would be damaged beyond repair, and to lessen her guilt over leaving you alone, abandoned, and unloved. She expected you to share the load with her, the weight of responsibility for all the misery and destruction she created. She didn't especially like being its architect. It wasn't fair that she had to be the bad guy. And she'd have felt less guilty knowing that you were being cared for.


jrjr, she's got no imagination! She did it by the book. She didn't have the guts to pursue the divorce herself. She wanted you to do the dirty work for her. She didn't have to courage to look you, her victim, in the face. Mine did the same thing. Avoided me completely during our separation.

But as such a purely self-involved being, she also wanted to make sure she got as much money out of you as possible. Perfect! She's a quick study. A model WW! Mine did this also.


Jrjr, I know this feeling. It follows me around, sniffing at my heels. It's a natural wish, for the person who has wronged you to suffer for it. This is wrath you feel. I doubt it's good for you. I can tell it isn't good for me. Heck, it's one of the seven deadly sins, come to think of it.


Jrjr, did the affair come up during MC? Because I can tell you, most of us around here, unqualified and uncredentialed amateurs, would have probably had your W pegged for a cheater the first time she opened her mouth to run you down.

Based on what I've heard, and based on my own limited experience, I reckon most MC don't have a clue. Most are focused on everybody getting what they want, and they appear to have a tendency to err on the side of ending the marriage.

Jrjr, our exes should get together and play Candyland. They have so much in common!

My man, if I had to guess, I'd guess that your pain is coming out in little puffs partly because the full composition of your xWW's betrayal hasn't ever snapped into focus for you, and partly because you're getting lots of good feelings from the new woman in your life, which distract you from your injury.

Do two things, please. First, take a little more time to reflect on what's happened and to feel your pain if you need to. You owe it to the new woman in your life to have a little bit better scar on the wound your xWW gave you before you marry. And second - and you might already have done this - imagine that the affair was your fault, that you "drove your wife away" with your bad habits and had a terrible aim when it came to giving her what she needed from a partner. Not because you're to blame for her crime, but because thinking on it will make you a better partner to this new woman. I think possibly you've got that one. With a WW and an MC pointing the fingers at you, you must have thought about it lots. It even sounds like you talked to your xWW about it.

Anyway, I go on and on, don't I? Lack of sleep I guess.

GC

You asked if the affair came up during MC. I think it was an emotional affair then. It began with her going out more with these new friends she made in her class. To put this in some perspective, before this class she never had much of social life. I mean she had a decent social atmoshphere at her work place way back then as a juvenile probation officer (right now I guess she is a sherriffs deputy). But these new friends were all close in age to her (mid 20's) so I suppose she felt a bond in age as well as career interests.

We started MC about 2 months after the class started. She was already by then staying out several nights a week after the night class ended. I suppose one could say that she was having an emotional attachment to this group of people. She did mention in MC that she had never had friends like this...it made her feel good.

Also during the MC is when I found the notes. This was maybe a step-up into individual attention. Once I found them, she would never truly tell me who wrote back to her. She wrote the damaging parts, but another guy wrote back on the same notes. Kind of like notes passed around in HS.

This is when I tried to psycho-analyze the situation. I got her to explain how it made her feel. She explained that she enjoyed getting the attention. But I was curious why did the attention have to be, for lack of a better word, sexually based.

In these notes she was talking about her thongs & how she could use her fingernails in suggestive ways. She had told me before that these guys would taunt other women in the class to lift up their shirts & show them their breasts. That they would make comments to her to 'shake her milkshake'.

Well she explained that in HS she never got that type of attention....that she resented the girls that did. That getting this attention made her feel good about herself. Looking back to when I first got to know her, I can see this pattern emerging. Before I got to know her, she had lost some weight. That she had struggled with weightloss for some time, but from what she told me, she didnt have to lose that much. Anyway, I can remember that she used to go thru times of getting really depressed about it all. This is after she had lost the weight. Her thought pattern was that she was still 'fat' & needed to lose more weight.

She kept this same attitude all thru the marriage...but it wouldnt come out as often. I suppose this new attention she was getting made her feel so good. It was something I couldnt give to her...that maybe she had to have it from others. Who knows...

There were other instances that started to suspect. Our MC at the time didnt seem to acknowledge any of this even after I expressed some concern. When I presented the notes in our jointly session, the MC didnt want to see them. I suppose he didnt want to embarass her by reading them. I lok back...he was worthless. We saw him one more time after the bomb drop day....his advice was to divorce. You are right, most MC dont have a clue.

You know what, the MC never pointed fingers at either of us. To him, our problems were trivial. He suggested that we had such minimal problems compared to some folks he was counseling. That all we needed to do was talk to each other. Good advice....shallow though. He never gave us any exercises or suggested ways to improve anything. IMO during our sessions he would talk way above my head....we got into issues about our child hoods, how she felt about her dad, etc.

I have been trying to improve myself in thinking about my own contibutions to all of it. Ive read most of Dr Harleys books & I plan on going thru the workbooks & precounseling with this new love in my life. I dont want to make any mistakes & I want to avoid any habits that can destroy the love that we have.

Jrjr, my WW went into la-la land over flattery too.

So the fire is dim tonight. This soldier has had his second night with no sleep in two weeks. A bit worried about this. I don't know what's up. Maybe I shouldn't have stopped my ADs. I didn't consult my doctor, I just stopped. Six weeks ago.

It's weird how little information there is on the web about the specific side effects and withdrawal symptoms of this drug.

GC

2long,

Thankyou for lending me some mojo.


'...Young Rob stands with his axe in hand, yeah
Believin' that the crops are in...'

(that way is danger. Don't want to go there.)


We are going to be okay, 2long. Our hearts can bear this.


Still, I don't get too close to the rivers edge some days. But today is a good day. There is a bird singing outside my window and an old man on a tractor in the field. The sun is shining, and my tomatoes are in blossom and I am going to take a walk down a dirt road and pick daisies out of the ditch.


Shul


ps: I got your backup part. I'm not Joni, but I'll do...

Shul, how is your good day : bad day quotient? You shouldn't know, is my point. Hoping it stays high...

GC