Weaves said:

Yes maybe cold is better than angry. I thought it sounded pretty cold though.

Yes, but unfeeling would be more of a wake-up call than cold, see? "Cold" infers that he has some feeling, albeit anger or hatred. Unfeeling implies Disinterest, plain and simple.

And I am not trying to be mean, but what would strike a woman worse?

Gray, did you go and dig up that email unbeknownst to us?

:: shaking computer monitor :: Where are you, Gray? Are you okay? What's going on? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


slh

Woops, sorry, cross post.

I see you are back, and have decided.

Be careful, Gray. Don't go too far over on to the Dark Side. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

hugs, slh

Could have or should have? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"for his perusal" that made me laugh out loud.

Weaves, what's the rest of your siggy line? I remember there being more to it.

I like it.

slh

GC

I think you are right mate...straight from the shoulder dont pull the punches.

All this softening the message stuff after what so many are put through .......well all I can say is that so many people here are so much nicer than me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Aw, Aussie. Nicer? It's not about being nice to the other person. It's about being nice to yourself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Believe me, I was one angry b*tch for a while after my fiance left me for some little ballerina in a tutu. It twisted me.

I'm much more pleasant now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

But I do agree with Weaves and GC; sometimes you gotta let it out, or it will cripple you. In one way or another.

slh

SLH,

As a Stafford fan, I have looked high and low for the poem this quote came from and have come up empty. I finally decided this was all their was. If you find more, please post.

Aussie,

I am starting more and more to agree with that line of thinking. In my case I didn't even go on A/D's this time. Screw it, I want to feel all the emotions so I can finally heal, once and for all.

No plans, no manipulations...no nothing.

I'm shooting straight from the hip now. And if I live forever alone, well so be it. There are worse things.

What I find cruelist about Gray's sitch is that he never got a second chance. Not even a false second chance to right whatever went wrong, if anything even did (go wrong) in his marriage.

No second chance, no chance at all. Man that is just about the cruelist thing I can think of.

Happens all the time around here though.

And if Gray gets a second chance sometime in the future, I doubt that he will take it. Too much pain.

But you know Gray, you will love again and you will love better. WAT told me that once and I really believe it in your case.

But you know Gray, you will love again and you will love better. . .I really believe it in your case.

*I* believe it too, you know. Better and deeper and sweeter.

Gray, I know you may have trouble believing it right now, with this Albatross about your neck. . .

. . . but you are an amazing man, with such a future ahead of you. Truly.

(Do I dare go on, at the risk of Binder and 2Long's teasing? I could you know. Without SS's prodding.) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Do you feel relief after having replied to her email? I hope so.


slh

Well, I'm not "gone" yet.

I needed 2 check for something else online, and wouldn't you know it? I hit "history" and came back here...

gc:

You can do this, and maybe it won't be "wrong" but it won't be you, either.

Consider this:

You can be kind and firm without being "nice." Nice is for sissies anyway. Nice enables bad $h!+. Firm insists on letting people face consequences. Kind does 2, in my very humble opinion (I hate those IMHO achronyms!).

No expectations, right? Not even any hope, either, right?

But you will forever have 2 live with YOUR choices, whatever those may be.

...pull the pin on the grenade, or let the Baghdad courts deal with her...

You choose, I've gotta go pack!

-ol' 2long

Gray, do whatever feels right to you. Just sending you my support and some MB hugs. {{GC}}

Let's work on exorcising that woman out of your soul, your life and your mind!

Wait 2long don't go yet.

Can you give an example of a kind and firm (not nice) reply.

Sincerely, I need to know what that looks like.

Thanks,

SLH,
Gray has a hard time believing the truth (that he has great worth) because of the lie his wife told him with her actions (that he is worthless.)

His mind knows the truth, but this is a heart problem. His heart is still broken.

My worry is that some days he thinks the solution is to have another girl like him - but I think the solution is for him to come to know God, who can heal his broken heart, and put into his heart just how much he is worth.

Oh, another girl (one who is as good a person as he is) would help a great deal. If he is healed before he meets her, he can give to the relationship what is needed. I wonder if he worries about that.

SLH,
You know who you are, and what you are worth. That enabled you to talk to Tiger and tell him what you could live with, and what you could not.

Gray,
You haven't said much about your search for a long time. I have wondered. Please forgive me if my opinion differs from yours. I always say what I think, but realize every one is free to think their own thoughts. By stating my opinions, I never mean to devalue yours.

You have dreamed your dreams,(in your prose) and shared your thoughts for quite some time here. We have a feel for who you are, it can't be hidden when your bare your soul as you have done. You are as good as we say you are, and time will prove us right.

SS

Amen! Well said SS.

SS, I am curious. I don't know much about your sitch but you are so warm, sweet and giving I cannot imagine anyone bringing harm to you. I think the same way of many people here including GC.

SS,

Once again I think you have truly hit home here. I am very interested in Gray's reaction to this post of yours.

There was a wonderful thread of FH's a while back which i will try and bump or take excerpts from if Gray wishes about forgiveness. The most incredible part of one story for me was the self-forgiveness part.

Weaver, FH's thread is on the R board I think. I could be wrong but that was an awesome thread.

Faithful,
I don't have a sitch. I found MB quite by accident, but realized it could really help our Marriage. I had a problem with LB's. Stopped the LB's, and we studied and began meeting needs much better. We are very much in love. Married 28 years (as of last march.) 8 children, 5 of them married, three still at home. The last two are twin girls 12.


I (for one) am happy that you are doing better.
(And you too Weaver, but I won't push you.)

SS

It is Faithful. I just read it this past weekend. One part just blows me away and I need to get it sometime and post here for Gray.

weaver:

"Can you give an example of a kind and firm (not nice) reply."

I can't or I won't. This has 2 be gc's growth step.

But I will requote here what I've quoted 2 others before, about what unconditional love is and isn't. Gc's mileage may, almost certainly will (and should), vary, and he should choose 2 act how he feels is appropriate, whatever you or I might feel is right for him at this moment. From Dr. Guy Pettit:

"Unconditional love is enlarging the self, and an act of will. It is not a feeling or an emotional reaction. Think of the difference between falling in love, and growing in love through all difficulties and conflicts. Unconditional love is an act of mental and spiritual will, it cannot and does not take place upon the emotional level, which is where the problems first register. Unconditional love is extending oneself in the service of the spiritual growth of oneself and/or another, independently of reward or the behavior of others.


To truly love in this way could include:

· To call forth a sense of responsibility, and a capacity to make wise choices.

· To point out weaknesses people have, - but very caringly so that the best in the person is drawn forth in response, rather than resistance.

· To challenge people to strive and attain, and discover their true selves..

· To help people work on their habits and weaknesses so that they become stronger. To show them how to use their will correctly.

· To help people learn to cooperate, and thus to overcome their little egos.

· To engage people in working for humanity.

· To teach people how to overcome their prejudices, resentments, separative tendencies, vanities, illusions, and other blocks to their own joy.

To truly love in this way does NOT mean:

· To surrender to weakness.

· To accept things that are harmful.

· To encourage weakness or irresponsibility.

· To accept dirt or ugliness in thought, feeling or action.

· To exploit or use people.

· To put people into sleep.

· To tolerate laziness.

Unconditional love causes you to see what has really caused a situation and to see through the outer appearances to the true needs of yourself and others, without criticism of yourself or others . It causes you to see the basic good in yourself and other(s).

Unconditionally loving people see their own errors and joyfully self-correct them .

They love themselves, others and the Source of Life, and therefore the whole of life. In particular, they are inclusive, and can maintain love and goodwill towards both the apparent "victim" and "oppressor" in a situation.

They seek to radiate their inner harmony and joy, peace and healing into any situation - without conditions or expectation of reward, and independently of the thoughts, feelings, and actions of others.

They are group conscious and do not react by immediately taking sides.

They serve the cause of peace and goodwill, and can often find ways to a fair solution of conflict that are not available to emotionally charged people. Gandhi taught the use of ahimsa and satyagraha, which is the willingness to cooperate harmlessly with the good intentions of the other for the true benefit of both.

The Forgiveness Process can be seen to be a process which moves us towards this goal of unconditional love."

Which, not surprisingly, leads in2 Guy Pettit's "Forgiveness Process", which is an amazing read in and of itself. I know I'm not supposed 2 do this, and the moderators can remove this link without upsetting me, but here is a link for more, if you or anybody who looks like you is interested:

http://www.iloveulove.com/forgiveness/pfpcommon05.htm

I believe that I understand now, the retisence that the Harleys have regarding unconditional love. It IS something that can be very, very easily misunders2d, and manipulated (either consciouslly or otherwise) by those seeking 2 justify their hurtful choices. But... ...true salvation, whatever that means 2 you, whoever you are, lies there. Nowhere else. I think that even Foreverhers would agree with me on that...

With much love, but with a possible period of absence from the boards for a tad... (perhaps amounting 2 as much as HOURS... ...after all, "we have the technology. We can make him better than he was...")

Now, in the immortal (or was that "immoral?") words of Just Learning (one of my best friends in all the unisphere)...

I [truly!] must go,

-ol' 2long

Thank you 2long.

The longing to have things the way they were is gone. The injury is still there, though I hope nobody thinks I spend my life in anguish.


Naturally I think a new person could wipe away the bad stuff that persists. I know better, but it would be such an anesthetic, wouldn't it?

As for my search, SS... it continues. It's an active search. I'm not just sitting here waiting.

I'm kind of overwhelmed by this response to my little flare.

THANKS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

gc