SS,

I decided to wait until you came back to talk about camp!

We did Yellowstone for vacation 3 years ago. We need to go back again....because we didn't see it all!

i was not the typical WS though... i suppose the A with the fellow student while engaged was, as was the A with the co-working in 1991 was but that was all so long ago.

the stuff i did between 7/2001-11/2003, that was not your typical WS. it was so much sicker and i absoultey HATE the stuff i did and the person i was. but so much scarier is the thought that i could be just one slip away from falling just as deep into it if not worse. i cannot imagine having the strength to pick myself up again.

anyone ever see leaving lost vegas with nicholas cage. it was a depressing movie, early on you just knew he would end up killing himself and after a while i just sat there thinking just get it over with already.

sometimes i feel that way about me. i just know i'm not really recovering at all. and i am going to fall again someday. and when i do it will be the end of me, so i should just get it over with already.

ok, i realize that all sounds mighty dramatic but it really is how i am feeling right now.

SLH - ok, you have seriously cracked me up, you really thought today was monday or are you pulling our legs???

I really thought it was Monday! Pathetic, huh? If I could have something to look forward to, to be excited about, then maybe I could better keep track of my days, but they all seem to blend into eachother. . .

FL, what meds are you on? Have you been on any others?

right now i just cannot imagine my life is ever going to be stable again. and then i start to thinking about how unfair life has been cuz it's NEVER been stable. and that's when i know i need to just STOP that kind of thinking.

FL, I know what you mean, hon. I've been there. That's why I am worried about starting to ask questions like "Why?" because if I do, and then truly give my life a good hard stare, I will be supremely disappointed. Stable? Happy? Fulfilling? What's that? And THAT's what leads to resentment, despair and depression.

(That's not saying that my M has been always been unhappy -- just that things -- gosh, almost EVERYTHING -- has been an uphill battle for me from day one. I would like just ONE THING to go right for us, sometimes, you know?)

There has got to be a productive way to deal with these feelings without falling apart or just sweeping them all under the rug (where there is already a mound growing).

You're not a burden, FL. we are all leaning on eachother, learning and growing, however slowly. I'm so glad I have a place to go to and friends to talk with like I do here.

FF, you say you are tired, and I see that. But I am also struck by the amount of strength and determination in your posts, and it heartens me. No matter what happens, I know you are going to be okay, luv.

slh

FL, you are not a burden. We are here for each other ok? As for work, stop stressing and just do as much as you are capable of today. {{{FL}}}

I decided to wait until you came back to talk about camp!

We did Yellowstone for vacation 3 years ago. We need to go back again....because we didn't see it all!


CSue,

Pictures, woman, pictures! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Some of us have to live vicariously through the lives of others for a little excitement! Can you post some of yours for us, or tell us about your time there?

slh

Thank you, SLH. I do feel strong but I am tired. I want to lay down my burdens and rest.

On Soylent Green - would it help if I said "We've got to tell the exchange!"

Gray,
I admit, I have done a lot of thinking about you.

Everyone searches for what you are searching for. Peace of mind. Well, I suppose there is more to it than that. That is a kind of simplistic way of putting it.

Do you believe there is an answer?

Do you have direction?

In fact, I think that is what most here on MB are looking for. Direction.
Most have energy, but don't know what to do with it.

Shoot, I am kind of sitting here thinking, but I should probably type more.

Gray,
It may take you some time, but I keep thinking you'll find what you are looking for.

I was wondering if you would come west again, in fact, I was wanting to spend a day or two with you, but mostly because I just like you, so It was kind of a selfish reason.

It is good to get work done on the house, and I have done that before, (as a vacation) but it's also good to change your surroundings and let your mind wander different paths. I hope you get to do that too.

Now, where was I, I had someone come into my office, and lost my train of thought.

I'll post this one and come back.

SS

SS - On Soylent Green - would it help if I said "We've got to tell the exchange!"


LOL, SS. I was just feeling macabre today. Pay my twisted humor no mind! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


slh

Faithful,
If you had hope - if you KNEW he was in it with all his heart, if things were getting better and you could measure progress, you would be happy, and you would have energy to continue.

I have to think that you are afraid it will not change, and I think that makes you tired.

Have you had a date yet? How about that lunch date?

Remember, that the things that you long for are often not the things he longs for. Can you do a trade, so you do one date that you drool over, and do one that he would be excited about - you know, you scratch my back, I'll sctatch yours? (that gives me ideas, but I should probably keep quiet.)

I have faith in you, and I really think you will make this, but I want it to be a little easier for you. Has he done anything to give you hope this last week?

CSue, I want to hear all about it. I'll trade you, I'll tell mine, if you'll tell yours.

SLH,
I'll tell all about it, but first, you tell me why you are still having trouble trusting him, (as far as spending time with you) and why you still doubt.


2long, you are still pretty quiet.

Just J,
I'm still thinking. I wish I could help more.

SS

LOL, SS. I was just feeling macabre today. Pay my twisted humor no mind!


Actually, I nearly always pay you mind. But time being what it is........... sometimes I miss things.

I was wondering if you missed lunch. I have half a bagle left, if you want it. Mmmmm, that is, if it apeals to you.

I was wondering what got you started on that. Did anyone else notice?

Lots of thoughts, lots of thoughts.

SLH, you are worth so much. Do you know it?

SS

ok, i do realize you were not actually talking to me but... thanks, i needed to hear that that is exactly what i let go of when i get like this: hope.

time to pick myself up, stop coping out by beating myself up and get back in the game "engage damm it, engage". anyone going to tell me the movie that line is from?? no one ever got the one from yesterday in iville... "boys talk too much" (although the actual line in the movie is one word different than what i typed). bonus points if you can figure out the word <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(thanks FF and SLH)

Girls talk to much

From Peter Pan.

FL,
There is always hope, always. Sometimes we hope for things that will not be, but we can change our hopes, and we can actually come to have joy in the way things do turn out, as opposed to the way we want them to turn out.

I think FF and SLH should have lots of hope for happy marriages. I don't know your story enough to know for you.

Kimmy,
what about you?

Weaver,
Thought a lot about you too. You have so much going for you, so much talent, so much to like. I continue to be impressed.

Shoot, lunch is long over. Maybe boys do talk too much.

SS

Nope, no date and no lunch date. Wedding last weekend took all of my time and energy but at least it is behind us now. Lunch date? No, not that either. He is stressed by his job, ss and doesn't have much to give me right now. He leans on me a lot and it leaves me floundering sometimes. I don't see him doing much to help in the recovery process but then he has been willing to listen to me and try to implement my ideas. He is trying harder with the kids and even went along with my "no TV for the month of August" stance. More family time and conversation that way. TV is a great avoider in our house. He is still a major CA and not just with me but everyone. Still not putting our family first but acknowledging his weaknesses. I don't know how does it sound to you?

wow, i'm very impressed!!! (how about "engage damn it engage"? i think that is the quote anyway...)

well i don't know your story either but i do know mine and i do know my H really is wanting our marriage to survive and he is backing that up with actions too. it's just going to take a while still. i let fear get to me, that he is side stepping everything cuz it is too painful and we will survive but not become close. and that is exactly where hope needs to come in. thanks.

FF, no tv for a month!!! that is huge!!! i'ld pay mega $$ for that!!!! so would my daughter!! so when the tv is off, what you going to do instead? you know my answer... BACKGAMMON!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but seriously, find some fun activity, don't let the month get by too quickly. what a great opportunity for a new habit to start.

Well tonight we are going to start reading the 1st Harry Potter book outloud. We can watch the occassional DVD too. I will pick up some new boardgames to try out as well. Not sure about backgammon as neither of us play it.

If you had hope - if you KNEW he was in it with all his heart, if things were getting better and you could measure progress, you would be happy, and you would have energy to continue.

I have to think that you are afraid it will not change, and I think that makes you tired.


This is the same for me, too, SS.

SS, things were changing. . . and then stopped. Same old same old.

Somehow I thought that the seriousness of our last conversation – the fact that I would be taking to the foothills if he couldn’t display some serious effort – would have enabled him to at least work on our M. Not so.

I have been trying to be a wonderful wife, loving, sensitive, kind. I tell him that I love him all the time. I thank him with words & affection for being my husband. I ask what I can do for him.

This weekend I blew it. I was tired of trying to be strong for us both only to see no indication of anything on his part, still. I was weary from daily expressing my love, only to have him answer an unenthusiastic “Mmmmm-hmmmm,” to my ILYs. I was sick of him not being motivated to do ANYTHING, even take responsibility of the girls occasionally.

Another argument. Without wanting to sound “threatening”, I tried to remind him that I couldn’t do this – “THIS” being put forth ALL of the effort, all the time – forever. I told him he seemed to rather being alone than to work on our problems together, as a couple. I reiterated that I LOVED HIM and that we should be dealing with these things TOGETHER. I underlined that working on things alone was not the way to deal with our problems, but if this really what he wanted, and if things continued on as they were, this was what he would get.

In anger he says, “Why don’t you say what you really mean, and stop threatening me with it. Just say it.”

So I did. And this was the only time (aside from that last big convo) where it was mentioned. This is NOT something I beat him over the head or threaten him with.)

Then he says, “So go, already! Run! Run, Michelle, Run!” and storms out of the room.

I am aghast. “Running” was never what I had implied. “Protecting myself” is, and he knows this.

As usual, I had to pursue him out of the room, to continue the conversation. No way was I letting THAT be the last word.

“Why on earth are you acting like this?” I ask, knowing full well that there is only exasperation and anger in my voice, not concern.

“Maybe because I am tired,” he says. “Maybe because I am old and tired and sick and broken.”

!!!!! He is only 39! How can we both feel like this???

Our entire married lives have been one struggle. From the day we got married (I had gotten pg the month before) and we were on all kinds of financial aid, until now, it has always been a struggle, financially. We are not spendthrifts, we have gone without many nice things (vacations, new cars, "toys", etc – heck, we don’t even buy Christmas or Birthday gifts for eachother because they cost too much, just the kids!) but we are still taking on more water than we are baling out. I *know* what it is like to be “tired”. And yet I have tried and am still trying for our M.

And that, my friends, is the crux of our problem. He is depressed. He has too much on his plate and now, having to deal with me, “makes it even more overwhelming”.

*Bills (including a $500 electric bill; we know not why and don’t have the $ to have looked into, but our SAHM’ neighbor’s is $120).
*Our house, falling apart as we speak (leaking plumbing, H2O bubbling up under the foundation; the reason FOR the $500 elec bill, awful wiring, etc)
*Not even being able to afford all of our prescriptions (ADs included), just the kids. No time for ourselves, for our marriage.
*No ability to get away, if even for a date (we have small children)

When we DO have a few moments together to enjoy eachother, we are so wrapped up in our own miseries and inability to deal with them that we cannot enjoy the moment.

But can I get him to look elsewhere for another job, even in another city, anything to IMPROVE things? No. Those rare moments when he is not putting some fire out at our house, he is too depressed to want to do anything towards improving things. And the sad thing is, I understand that. Lately I don’t feel like doing anything either. I don’t know how we function.

I will say that this last argument ENDED well – he realizes this and that, promises to work on changes, etc. But then he always says this, doesn’t he? And we always end up back where we were.

So unless I am committed to bludgeoning my head against his walls each and every time he erects them in order to get thru to the man, it looks like I have lost.

Part of me wants to hang on -- a big part of me. But then I look at myself in five years -- just like I did five years Past, and wonder if I will be in the same miserable place, or if he will have woken up. Am I selfish for feeling like I DESERVE more? (Help me, FF!) That my life is rushing past me and I am just standing here, immobilized by the very thing I love?

Will I regret staying, with so little effort from Him?

It is sad, but I think money would solve many of our problems. And no, NOT the lottery, just enough to pay the freakin' bills; to get by. To not have to worry about the electricity being cut off again, or how we are going to afford to bring the youngest to the doc for her UTI, or where we are going to get the surprise $50 copay for her Rx.

I realize everyone has problems -- just different ones, so I don't know how to measure the seriousness of this. I only know that I am desperately tired of this all.



slh

Well tonight we are going to start reading the 1st Harry Potter book outloud. We can watch the occassional DVD too. I will pick up some new boardgames to try out as well. Not sure about backgammon as neither of us play it.

What a wonderful idea -- I love board games and cards and such. Maybe my oldest would humor me. I've gotten her to play Scrabble, Connect Four and Battleship with me on occassion. . .

slh

Can you whittle away at this stuff a little at a time? You know how they recommend when you have too much credit card debt to start paying more toward the smallest one until it is paid off and then the next one and so on? Can the two of you work together to take this approach? maybe I am being too simplistic, if I am I apologize. It is so very hard to make big changes when you are depressed. That has been my H in a nutshell. Tired, depressed and broken at age 40. Drop the deserve for a moment SLH and look at this from another POV. What do your kids deserve? Not trying to be harsh, just looking at it differently. How will you feel about yourself if you give it your all and show your kids what true commitment means? I am not advocating staying when there is abuse or intolerable situations, I am saying you will not regret giving them the best chance possible for an intact household. Money will be tighter on a two household budget as well. Just food for thought. You are in my prayers.

SLH,
I acknowledge that I don't have all the answers, but.........
I still have hope for you. I admit I have been wrong.......... but I still have hope for you.

Thanks for the update, I really wanted to know.
I am operating under deadline at work right now, and I am not sure how much time I will have to talk these next few days. I hate it when I prime the pump and then leave while the water is running - but if I put a 5000 gal stock tank under it, maybe it will catch enough to swim through later.

We rode horses on our trip. Horses trained by a man that loves horses. Went with him actually - my friend from long ago.

"Man should not live where dogs do not bark, and horses do not neigh."
Old Jewish proverb.

Remember what Jesus said:
"Be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."
In that one sentence, is all the hope in the world. Do you feel it?

SS

Faithful,
You do such a good job.

SS