Faithful,
I can see this may be very limiting at times. I am sure you love him, and that he is a joy to you most of the time, but constant care can take a toll. I suspect WH wasn't much help either, because his time was being spent elsewhere.

With WH gone, it will be important for you to get some alone time often. Perhaps he will stay (when he visits) and let you get out by your self. I am not suggesting you take up sky diving or anything like that, but even a walk for an hour by your self will be good for you. Think on it.

SS

SLH, I'm sorry to hear about those troubles. It's true... fighting is better than silent resentment. Punching things is hard to resist sometimes, though not helpful I think.

SS:


I told him the same thing, that the continuing relationship hurts her more than the end of it will.

He wonders if he should maintain some friendship with her. I told him he shouldn't, because every time he provides her with companionship, she'll get her hopes up.

Reminds me of a crush I had once. I could go weeks without seeing this girl, and then one phone call from her and I'd be satisfied. I'd go back to maybe-there's-a-chance land, and I'd start looking forward to the next time I heard from her.

FF, my friend isn't screwed up. There's a good chance he'll be living with me. He's a great guy. I've known him for about five years, and I don't have any doubt about his character.

It's going to be weird having his motorcycle in the house all winter though.

GC

Well that is a relief, GC. I worry about you taking on something while healing, KWIM? Tell your friend avoiding and placating are not the answer. Much like a bandaid the quicker, cleaner, the better.

ROTFL, just saw that part. True bachelor pad, eh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You can always buy him a cheap tarp.
If you get it big enough, it can wrap completly around it, and not leave any leaks at all.

I would have a hard time with in the house, unless he is paying lots of rent, if so, it will be a help to you.

I have a garage, I'll store it free if I can have the keys too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

At one time I was thiking if you (GC) came by this summer I would take you on the Kanara canyon hike. Had a bike ride planned too. JEM trail, much of it down hill, and I had a bike lined up for you.
Bike Rider starting JEM trail
Scenery on JEM trail

SS

SS, he is 7. No, he cannot walk. He is in a wheelchair most of the time or mom's lap.

And golly, he's one of the most beautiful angels the Lord allowed on this earth! Have you seen him, SS?

At one time I was thiking if you (GC) came by this summer I would take you on the Kanara canyon hike. Had a bike ride planned too. JEM trail, much of it down hill, and I had a bike lined up for you.
Bike Rider starting JEM trail
Scenery on JEM trail

Jealous slh

Sigh, I love babies.

Ok, I love kids -
Luke 18: 16
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

I believe that, and even more so for those that can't care for themselves. It will be wonderful to see them come forth on the morning of the resurrection clothed with glory, with their full faculties. Faithful, I can see him hugging you, and thanking you.

SS

Exactly! SS, you put it into words better than I ever could. He readily admits this, and admits to feeling attacked when I remind him of my unhappiness.

He said he was in the shower this AM and leaned against the wall and just cried out of sheer frustration, and feeling like a failure.

Failure. It's a word he once never used (Too "Un-Anthony-Robinsesque"). Now he fears it is his epitaph.

I've been there myself.


SS, you punched a wall???? ::Hushed awe:: SS, is it bad to say your confession gives me heart? You've come so far!


His remodeling endeavor began when I revealed to him that at this point, I feel like the girls and I don't mean that much to him. After all, we have lived like this for 11 years and things have only marginally improved. Knowing what a strain our financial situation is for us all, I justified to him my perception of not feeling like he cares ENOUGH (not that he didn't care at all, just didn't care enough) by saying he would've taken greater pains to change things long ago, instead of allowing them to culminate in the mess we are in now. Series of decisions on his part, over and over; not ever taking my opinions into consideration (and yes, I am resentful -- look where we are).

He became enraged, and no, I have never seen him so angry. This was an amazing display of terrible helplessness. I'm not certain how much of it was pride, but I do know he has been working his tail off for years for us; the thought that I could say that "if we mattered enough, he wouldn't have put us through this over and over" devastated him. But this is how I feel, how I've felt for years, and been reluctant to tell him. The truth is, we always did what he wanted to do, and my concerns were unheard. I didn't want to move to Houston. I didn't want him to accept the first job offered to him without even looking around elsewhere. I didn't want to get into such an expensive community, even for the great schools. I didn't want to buy the last car. There's more, but you get the picture. Over and over, year after year. And the money sitch! It really does feel like we weren't that important, or he never would have kept us in such tenuous circumstances for so long.

Last night, when he walked away from me in the middle of (yet another) heated argument, I told him if he did that again I would be gone (unhealthy and bad, I know -- I totally overeacted. I hate being walked away from by him, it just validates all those feelings of my opinion not mattering enough to listen to, shoots down my self-esteem, etc). His answer? He rounded on me and says, "So go. You're gone already. It's almost September and you said you'd be gone by then. Why bother?"

Fatalism, or indifference? All I know is that I've not been distant, unaffectionate or condescending since our big "talk" about my leaving by Sept if things didn't change for the better. I've genuinely tried.

Almost sounds like he wants me to go, huh? that's what I thought. He insists otherwise, but then hasn't made any effort to induce me to stay, since our big talk about things improving. Nada. Zilch. And now he says that me walking out the door, and the threat of it, won't change anything. (My guess, if anything, it would probably make him belligerant, or apathetic, or both).

He has no answer for why he hasn't tried. I pushed, insisting that, for me, the thought of my losing him would induce me to make some drastic changes to entice him to stay. Nothing. I'd like to think his indifference and ambivalence is due to him just being that overwhelmed, but am I completely deluding myself?

I am at the point of thinking he is just too depressed to care. He even admitted that he resents having to worry about my needs when he has so many other stressful issues to contend with. Well, golly, that's a pretty strong indicator for how he feels about me, huh? Put me on the backburner, once again, like the last few years. No wonder my self-esteem has been so low as of late.


You asked about my options, SS. I have pondered them at great length over the last few years.

(1)I could leave, with the kids. I would have to move if I expected to have custody of the kids because this area is far too expensive to live in and pay for daycare. I could never get a decent job with years of unfinished college hanging over my head -- not enough to stay in this area in anything more than the smallest of one-bedroom apts. Hard truth.

(2)I could leave, without the kids. With a job, live nearby if possible and let my babies stay in their home with their father. See them as much as possible per an arrangement. Be an old lonely hag, lol. Harder truth.

(3) Wait it out 2 more years. Have justified doing this in the past because I have only one more DD that will be in school in 2 years. Then maybe bolt. Don't know what could evolve on the relationship front in 2 years. Probably easiest path, for more reasons than love, I am ashamed to say. Things like convenience, and letting the kids grow up a bit. Just live on auto-pilot. Not fun but possible.

(4) -- exhausted this one -- show him how much I love him, support him, be there for him, etc. Expect the same in return. Get hurt again when he doesn't reciprocate. Scared to death of implementing this one again. That's not to say, if he could display a genuine, long-term effort of trying, I would deny him, but I am tired of all these empty promises for things changing. Nothing ever does. And every time I show him exactly what I need from him, percisely, in minute detail, and he *still* refuses to put forth the effort to do it, I lose more and more love for him. He knows this.

What did I miss?

Boy, it felt good to get that out. I think so much more clearly when I can write it all down. I don't know if anyone can offer anything, but thanks for the shoulder, anyhow.


SS, Magnolia's a good drive NNW from Houston. We live S of Houston, closer the coast. But would make just about any drive to meet you, SS.




slh

SS,

He just read your post and agreed with every word. . . nodding his head. . . saying, "these people are so wise". . .


slh

SLH,
I need to go, but one thing.

Much of this is Mars/Venus stuff. If you haven't read the book, I recommend it. You can check it out of the library for free.

You state your feelings -
He feels attacked -

It is the WAY IT IS DONE, NOT WHAT YOU ARE DOING. There are ways to get your concerns across to him so that he will feel you are helping him solve problems.

We did that for so long. See why I tell you I have hope?

AS far as the wall, I think I threw something - but yes, I have come far. I still get the feelings sometimes, but now I ask my self "how can we make this work for us."

Don't give up hope. Not yet. Please?

This is so hard, remember, I am a fellow traveler, not a MC. What is hard is communicating the hope I have that you can't see yet.

Must go, more later......... tomorrow?

SS

Always, at your convenience, SS. Thank you again. *smile*

Will look for planets tomorrow.


slh

Gray,

I just wanted to let you know I am here. And that because of you I push forward each day with new meaning.

Mike

Thanks Mike. It's good to hear from you. I think about you all the time.

It would be nice if things were easier, but they aren't, are they?

GC

Was hoping Mike would be around still...

Went to drop off a couple of cards and a gift for sparrow's old HS friend and her son who's going overseas for the year. Didn't plan on a long stay, but they invited me in and fed me beer all evening. A little embarrassed about the card I gave the woman. Not too serious, but may have been a little too touchy-feely for her. But I've known her a long time, and she was cool about it. Wants to fix me up with her friend. Also invited me to come with her to a scruffy weekend camping getaway with some local music scenesters. And her BF isn't coming! But please do not think this is an occasion for anything weird. I'm tempted to go, to meet some new people. It's a hard call though. I'm supposed to be dedicated to working on the house with every free hour until the refi. I was going to sand my floors this weekend. But man, an overnight with music and camping sounds cool.

My buddy gave notice with Ms. Unrequited today, and he's moving into my house at the end of October. It will be strange having someone here all the time. No more sitting nekkid on the porch with my coffee on Saturday morning. Oh well, getting cold soon anyway.

After hearing his story, I think it's good I'm not getting a female roomie. It didn't occur to me before, the trouble that could create.

GC

GC, re: the offer to go camping: all work and no play. . . <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

A real campfire with real music and real company??? Aaaw, Gray, live a little. When was the last time you were able to do something like this? You've been working your tail off on that house. You've sacrificed your summer vacations. Take a few days' break and renew your spirit. You will be so glad you did.

Relieved your buddy has given notice to Loony Roomie. October, however, is a good month off. I wouldn't be too surprised if Ms. Unrequited continued applying pressure on your friend. She sounds kinda shameless around this guy! How did she take it when he told her of his choice? She was probably thinking, There's still one month to change his mind. . .

No more nekkid Sat. mornings on your porch? ::all the women sigh despairingly:: No, really, it will be a huge adjustment with a roomie, as you know. But you seem to think it will be worth it. As long as you're not the type to pitch fits and slam doors when he brings a date home. . .(lol)


slh

After hearing his story, I think it's good I'm not getting a female roomie. It didn't occur to me before, the trouble that could create.

It occured to us......... but didn't know how to get it across. This way worked well. What an education.

Really, I'll store the motorcycle for free. I'd even fill it with gas and change the oil next spring when I was done with it.

Agree with SLH about the campfire. Right now, you are saying "I don't know how I can make time, there is too much to do, I should just keep working....."

If you go you will be saying "I must have been crazy, I should do this more often. What was I thinking?"

Promise.

SS

BTW SLH, planets won't solve your problems. It will give you tools to work on them. Hard to bake cakes without cake pans, or an oven. It will help.

The bottom line is that there are a lot of things to learn about being married. We fall in love, and we see through rose colored glasses. We marry, and we have children, and we work, and we keep house, and things start to fall apart at some point for almost everyone. So then what happens.

Do we form the perfect team and tackle the problems as one?

Nah, most of us don't. We see our spouse doing things that drive us crazy, we don't understand them, and after a while we loose trust in them. Then we fight, and things go down hill from there. Ha, Ha, and you thought you were at the bottom.

Smile, I am not making light of what you are going through, but trying to show you it is more common than you might think. Go ahead, smile, you can make it if we did.

Common mistakes -
Trying to fix all the stuff that goes wrong.

Money problems are one of the largest causes of D. You do need to fix this. But.......

See Dr Harleys material - if you haven't already read it through. He spent lots of time trying to solve peoples problems, and then he figured out that the problems would mostly solve themselves if the couple was madly in love, so he figured out how to help them fall in love again. It worked. Not all were saved, but the percent went way up.

What needs to happen -
You two need to fall in love. You need to work as a team to make a life that is rewarding for BOTH of you. Ti can't continue to try to do it alone by working more hours, and fixing stuff at home when he should be spending time with you. Sure, it needs to be done, and I am not suggesting you spend every weekend at a motel. (Would be fun though.)

I am suggesting you find balance again, which balance has been missing from your lives.

Just how do you do that?

You look at all that is going on. List the stuff that needs to be fixed.
Then prioritize the list. I suspect the money problems will come first to both of you.
Remember, you are a team. Your goal is the long term happiness of your family. I promise those love feelings can return - stronger than they were at first. Think about that. Remember?

So you have this list, and you have the stuff arranged as to importance.

You start at number one, and you work down, except you take "Falling in love, and meeting each others needs." from wherever it is on the list, and you make let it share first place with whatever is there. If you dont' do this, I can't help you any more, because it is that important, and the rest won't work if you don't realize it. I am giving you credit in advance for "getting it." I assume you will be able to do that.

On being a team -
Remember why you married. Not becasue you think the same, but because you think differently. IF YOU WERE THE SAME, WHAT USE WOULD YOU HAVE FOR EACH OTHER???

Righ now, you are using the differences between you as weapons to continue to fight. They should be used as strengths to fight against the OUTSIDE forces that threaten your family. You both know this, but emotions are strong, and it is hard to remember what the goal is when you are hurting. Read this together. Look at each other right now. You know this is true. Question is, what are you going to do about it?

Work on the list -
Continue to spend time in things you both enjoy. If you can't do that much YET, agree to trade off doing things he likes, then things she likes. It is far better to find common ground though.

Right now, he most enjoy's working, and fixing stuff. I don't know this for sure, but that would be what a guy that felt he was failing would do. Work more, and fix what is broken.
That's the way it feels the best, because then you feel like you are doing something about the problem. In REAL terms. This emotional stuff is nice, you see, but he wants to do some hands on fixing.

ON the other hand, since things are falling apart at the seams, SHE needs to be held, and comforted. She needs to know that even if things are going to pot, he loves her and will make her feel wanted and needed. In fact, she needs it more now than ever, because that is how SHE copes with what is happening.

Teamwork -
Learning how to meet each others needs, so that the important work of raising a family, and being happy can continue. It continues best when the H, and the W are happy and fulfilled, and their needs are being met.

Celebrate your differences. Be Happy for them. Make them work FOR YOU, not against you as then have been recently.

The other problems are serious, I am not in any way discounting them. You won't get through them though, unless you are helping each other do it.

I think the scripture goes something like this "It is not good for man to be alone."

There is one other source of help, as great as any other that exists. No, it is much greater. I think you know what I mean. If you are not using this source, you may fail anyway. Be together on this one too. God said "ask and ye shall receive." You need to ask in faith together, as a team.

Please forgive any errors. AS Weaver said, I don't spell well, but no time to proof.

SS

A funny thing happened on the way to the labyrinth.

Did I mention that Cerri has a labyrinth? She does. I walked it Sunday night. Over and over and over again. I was on the phone for some of that time. Walking with Cerri for a little of it.

The first time I approached it, it was dusk and I was alone. Sad and stressed and lonely and wishing for more. Stars were beginning to sprinkle the sky. There's a notch in the trees and the entrance to the labyrinth faces the notch. In the notch were two planets. Venus and Jupiter, I believe. Brilliant, both of them.

I didn't know that at the time. I just looked it up. And yet it makes sense in the context of this conversation.

Men as Mars and women as Venus is an old, old mythology, one that we reshape for our modern understanding of men and women. And yet Mars is not the only male archetype. Jupiter, too, is a male archetype of a very different kind. And there are other female archetypes as well, of course. Earth is often viewed as female.

My own view of these myths is of Mars as warrior and Jupiter as king. See the difference? Mars is younger (though mature), agressive, sometimes angry. Jupiter is older (though not elderly), fatherly, strong, and centered. The king, if you will.

And of women there is the same shift. Venus -- the young lover, sensual, womanly. Earth -- a mature mother, strong, centered. The queen, if you will.

We all have such a journey in our lives. SS talks about it -- from the singular response of man-being-attacked (and therefore creating himself a remodeling project) to the family response of how-do-we-make-this-better?

Women have that same journey, though we take a parallel path. Women patch the drywall less often; we have other ways of expressing our unproductive rages and hurts.


In my walks through the labyrinth, other things happened. It was a weekend of transformation. Cerri says I look different than I once did. She said it was the pearls and the longer hair -- and the inner transformation. More changes are happening.

SS, remember what you said about things showing up when one is ready? I'm uncertain enough to say only that I'll keep you posted. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Guys, I just heard from my family in LA!! It has been days and I was about to drive my butt down there to see if they all were alive! I have been so worried about them and the news gets more astounding and horrific every day.

My extended family lives in suburbs of New Orleans, but my parents live in Baton Rouge, about 75 miles or so from there.

I cannot call to LA from here, though have been trying for days. I found out yesterday text messaging works (!), but every phone "circuit has been busy" since Sunday night. I just cannot get through. Today when I tried calling, the message had been changed to,” Due to the hurricane in this area, your call cannot be completed as dialed.” It’s insane. A girlfriend of mine called me twice yesterday and said that occasionally her phones worked, but it was pretty rare.

That same friend, whose father was a detective with the BR police (he has since retired, but keeps in touch with them) has passed along some horror stories of looting, car jackings (right in front of him!), and other crime going on in BR right now. BR has effectively doubled in size. . . and it seems a a scary amount of those poeple who fled to there from New Orleans are thugs. Ti's mom was sent home from work, and some banks are now saying they are “closed to civil unrest”. My girlfriend's elderly grandpa's house (he wasn’t inside) had a tree fall on it, and looters used the hole to make themselves welcome.

So now Baton Rouge also is under attack. How awful for so many people that evacuated from NO and had thought they were safe from the crime, if not the floodwaters.

But then the Baton Rouge press conferences/officials say “all of the problems have been dealt with already and there is no cause for concern”.

Here's portions of an email from my mom:


[color:"purple"] I just got back in my home this morning (finally got power this morning) and will try again to call. We have been trying and trying and all we hear is a busy signal. [Your sister] got power a yesterday morn and [your other sister] just got it last night. --- and I found a RV village where they had power and moved our camper there until our power came back on. [Your sisters and their families] stayed with us in our camper till they got power. My mom, Aunt --- and Uncle ---- with ----, -----, ---- and her son are all at Uncle ----'s home. He only lost power for a short time. Covington, Bogalusa and Slidell do not have power and probably won’t for a long time. All the power poles are down and the entire city is blacked out. Aunt ---- and family might come and stay with us since we also have power now. -----'s mom in Slidell just finished building a new 3000 sq foot home and they heard it is totally gone – nothing left of it. You know --- also lives in Slidell and has not been able to go home and see if her house is standing or not. Slidell got hit pretty hard – even though the news is not showing too much of it. Our next door neighbor has 10 family members from NO staying with her because they have no place to go home to.

It is a nightmare here – like a war zone. Gas is almost impossible to find. Food in the stores is scarce. People are wandering the streets with no home, job or food. Some have guns and we are all afraid they will start car jacking. [/color] On a side note, this has already been happening all over the city, and many of the city's businesses have been closed due to "civil unrest". [color:"purple"] It is almost scary to go out. We hear war helicopters flying over all day long on their way to NO. People are dying because they can’t get out of NO and have no food or water. But we are safe and so very fortunate to still have a home to go to. My company told me to stay home this week and not go to work. I might be able to go back next week – will have to wait and see. Aunt ---- and Uncle ---- don’t have jobs now because they can’t go to work since the whole city is without electricity – there is no place to go to work to. One of my co-workers stayed in NO during the storm and no one has heard from him since it happened. It is just awful.

[Your sister] has had to go to work since people are trying to find jobs. They are keeping their doors locked and only open it when they know who it is or they look pretty safe. The banks and stores (the ones that aren't closing) are locking their doors. You can only use the drive thru at a bank. I don’t blame them. I went to the bank yesterday to cash a check and they gave me too much money. I did not realize it till later. [My husband] is going back today and return what they overpaid me, because he doesn't want me to go out alone. I need gas in my car but hate to go out and try to find it. If a station has gas, the lines are hours long just to get to the pump and there is no guarantee that when you get up there they will have gas. The looters are going nuts. All doors are locked and bolted just in case; we aren't going out unless absilutely necessary. that's okay. I’m just glad to be in my home with power, and everyone okay. Keep in touch and we will do the same. Love, mom
[/color]


My family was all so much luckier than so very many. . .


slh

unbelievable is all I can say...glad they are safe.