SS... my BS card is expiring.

GC

Good.


The rest of the things we have said about you over time are still true.

Oh, you have faults?

Yes, you do.

Work on them......... but don't put off life while you do it. It's so much more fun to do both at the same time. More rewarding too.


No wait, did he mean Betrayed Spouse card, or did he mean ........... ???

SS

I learned something this evening - from an old Perry Mason rerun.

The term "emotional affair" has been around for at least 40 years. They used it on a Perry Mason episode, in such a way that it was obvious what they meant - which is exactly what it means now.

My W and I were watching it 2gether. I was browsing ebay motors (collectibles before 1939 - I don't "do" the new stuff!), and she stroked my arm when the term came up.

It was a good evening. But I've had some good ones before. This one was after a few particularly "bad" ones, with reminders and triggers of the A, and her continuing contact, all over. Last night, though, she asked me "will we be okay?" And I answered half-honestly "I don't know." In retrospect, I probably was being as honest as I could have been (remembering that honesty is about feelings), because what I thought would have been a more "honest" answer - "No", would have been more reactionary than honest. So, I'm glad I said what I did. It seems to be having an effect.

And it was better than a "non-answer" I gave earlier, when she said "at some point we're going 2 each have 2 compromise", because I wanted 2 insist that there was no compromising when RM is concerned - he simply must go. Forever. But I didn't say that. I said something else that I can't remember. Sort of a conflict-avoider, probably.

Oh well. I didn't come here 2 pi$$ in my own cheerios. We cut down a couple pepper trees last week, and the logs burn a really long time (when dry), and smell good. Here's a cord or 2.

"Young Rob stands with his axe in hand, yeah,
Believin' that the crops are in.
Firewood stacked, ten by ten,
For the wife, the folks, the kids,
And all of the kin...
...and a friend."

-Eric Anderson, "Blue River"

-ol' 2long

I sure do likes me some pepper trees. Don't have them here, of course. Maybe you Californians think they're a nuisance; I have no clue.

2long, are you looking for another car or just browsing?

How do you restore your house and do other projects at the same time?

GC

gc:

Pepper trees grow like weeds. We still have 2. They'll fill the holes in the yard in short order. Got 2 be where every year they'd drop a ton of branches in the street during windstorms. So far, nobody's been under those, and thankfully, now they're gone.

Just browsing, mostly. I don't have time 2 restore cars at the moment. I was going 2 pay 2 have my Model A restored, but it 2rns out that would cost 20-30K, and there's a restored one just like it on ebay this week for less than 14K.

We have a pic2re of the house taken in 1918, showing a big touring car in the driveway. I'd love 2 have a big brass-era touring car 2 go along with the house (since there's no room or zoning for a horse and buggy anymore), but I wouldn't restore it myself. These days, everyone wants 2 collect muscle cars, so the older cars are not so expensive (or aren't growing in cost all that fast). They're purdier, 2.

-ol' 2long

Hi.


I'm just going to pull up my chair and get warm by the fire here for a few, if no one minds....

I've been over there...at the edge...in the shrubbery.... listening in since 'nov/04.....

once, J dropped one of those amazing cookies she brought....I nabbed it as it rolled past my feet....it was just what I needed...

but now....I think I need more..I need some of the warmth your fire and 'brotherhood' gives because it is getting colder out there in the world....


so, I'm just going to sit here a spell....I won't be a bother.....

Here, souloss, have one of 2long's beers. Or one of Grays...

Want to hear a fish story?

First we have to wait for weaver to get back though.

Soulloss, rub the hands together and let the light spoil your night vision.

GC

And here all this time I thought it was the forest echoing with laughter...no wait that's a song. I just knew there was something out there scrambling around eating the dropped cookies and softly chuckling.

Good to see you Apie, wise and funny weaver of fish tales that you are.

Me, I'm taking souloss's place in the trees because I've become just way too confrontational lately...time for me to chill for awhile.

Gray, how's the cool girl doing? I'm routing for her you know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Sorry weaver, I don't think it's going anywhere. She keeps insisting that my lack of interest in an exclusive relationship doesn't matter, and I'm still uneasy.

She's older than me by a little too much. Even though I say I'm not looking for anything serious, the truth is that I want to date women who are younger than she is. I have more of an agenda than I admit to.

GC

Hey, GC - Whassup?

I have not been by the fire for a while. Just wanted to drop in and warm my hands and cry in my beer.

Could you pitch me a pint from the cooler?......

far

Of course you have an agenda, GC. You want to be a dad someday. Or else you marry an older gal and force her to have a baby at age 62!!!

Hey Dylan! Welcome to the campfire. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Okay I get it now, and agree with Faith. Trust your instincts.

FAR,

You can only cry in your beer for ONE beer...then it's time to let go all your cares, & enjoy the fireside company. Good for the soul.

That's why I keep coming back...familiar faces are sometimes all that is needed.

HI Faith...(said it first this time) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi Weaver <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gray,

I am downloading Nickelback - "animals" "fighting for all the wrong reasons" "hero".

I'm in heaven! I'm so old to be becomming a heavy metal fan...but I just can't help it, I love it.

Hi Soulloss. Good to see you here at the campfire. I've been missing from it for a while, myself.

Tonight I've had four ibuprofen, two Aleve, and a glass of red wine. Oh, and earlier today I did a wicked nasty thing to my back. "Wrenched" and "threw out" seem to be the words most people use for this state. Myself, I think of it as taking my lower back and freezing all the muscles into an uncomfortable and entirely useless knot. *sigh*

SS, I'm doing well. I'm settling into my life. I have a hard time with some parts, still. Like GC, I like the idea of more parenthood. It's hard to see how that could happen, though, in the present circumstances. That makes me sad.

And yes, that method of finding a path is working for me. I'm not as, err, religious (chuckle) about it as I could be. But gratitude works really well for me, and compassion. I'm not nearly so angry as I once was. Being a parent challenges me a lot, and I have more opportunities to be angry over things like children having tantrums in grocery stores. But I react to it less, so it balances out that on the whole I'm less angry even with the increased opportunities. That's a good thing, I think.

GC, give car4love my love. I admire her strength.

You talk about sparrow and tinman, and how they are generally decent people who probably won't pay for anything they've done. I think similar things about my ex and her husband. They're generally decent people who did a pretty awful thing. And because they're generally decent people, and because the rest of the world doesn't want to destroy the entire fabric of society by ostracizing everyone who does this one awful thing, maybe they will not face any external consequences.

But I know people who have been the wayward spouses, and they've talked to me about how it has affected their lives long afterwards. It doesn't mean that their lives fall apart in any significant way. The people I know are thoughtful and aware enough to see that "having" to make a marriage worthwhile puts way too much pressure on you to accept things that really aren't okay. It's a subtle thing, though, and it can take years to show up in any truly conscious way.

Life doesn't give you grand gestures. It just gives you lots of opportunities to learn.... and eventually some of us do.

Oh, and today is Soulloss's birthday. So I brought a cake. I hope nobody minds. It seemed like the thing to do.

Hope you had a very special birthday Souloss.

J, I agree with you..."guilt always seeks punishment" in some form or another.

Check out James Blunt - he is awsome!!!! 2long you would love his stuff...he has really neat lyrics like Peter Gabriel, but reminds me of John Mayer...check out the Bedlam Album if you do.

SS - this is for you, for being such a good friend and mentor to all of us here.

James Blunt - Cry Lyrics

I have seen peace. I have seen pain,
Resting on the shoulders of your name.
Do you see the truth through all their lies?
Do you see the world through troubled eyes?
And if you want to talk about it anymore,
Lie here on the floor and cry on my shoulder,
I'm a friend.

I have seen birth. I have seen death.
Lived to see a lover's final breath.
Do you see my guilt? Should I feel fright?
Is the fire of hesitation burning bright?
And if you want to talk about it once again,
On you I depend. I'll cry on your shoulder.
You're a friend.

You and I have been through many things.
I'll hold on to your heart.
I wouldn't cry for anything,
But don't go tearing your life apart.

I have seen fear. I have seen faith.
Seen the look of anger on your face.
And if you want to talk about what will be,
Come and sit with me, and cry on my shoulder,
I'm a friend.
And if you want to talk about it anymore,
Lie here on the floor and cry on my shoulder,
I'm a friend.

Birthday Cake? Why not….terrible with beer though….if that’s possible. I guess I’ll switch to some of that cowboy coffee off to the side of the fire. Nofoamycinnamonyfroththycappuccinoey faux coffee for us rugged survivors. Just a handfull of already ground in a can of boiling water…..a little added cold water should settle the grinds…..mmmmmmmmmmmmm.

“guilt always seeks punishment"

What if you don’t feel guilty?

I think you’re right though Weaver……probably in proportion to the efforts of the BS to save the marriage. I think, not expecting or even hoping, that when my STBX has her unsustainable affair end she will then reflect. She will see that she had a full 18 mos to change her mind before I even filed. She will have to justify this to our children one day too.

Yadda Yadda Yadda…..enough about that……

Just wanted to pop in to say hi……

It's at an unconscious level I believe Binder...and it might manifest as anger/depression among other things, finally (and hopefully) resulting in atonement and self-forgiveness.

On a metaphysical level, guilt would also arise from the failure to forgive others.

We have all hurt others and metaphysically speaking there are no lesser or greater degrees of hurting others.

And going back to 2longs post regarding "Radical forgiveness", when we finally arrive at the place of holiness or enlightenment we understand that there was never anything to forgive. We are all trying to find our own paths, as hard as that is to accept about the people we loved and trusted, especially when it involves a spouse who has broken vows and upset our children's safe and loving home.

Of course when children are involved I still have trouble aligning myself to this line of thinking...