Appy, twice is still a coincidence.

It was them. But is it possible there's some intersection in their character, some overlap, between what made them attractive to you and what made them disloyal?

GC

It has been interesting reading the various views on forgivness.

I really like what NC wrote about it.


Faithful, do you have a date this weekend?

Now I'm wondering if Gray has a date?

OK, maybe I should just ask everyone what their plans are, and if the plans include a date.

???

I have a hot date lined up for Friday night. It includes Dinner, and shopping for a trip we take the following week.

It's fun to shop when you have a little extra money saved for frills.

SS

But is it possible there's some intersection in their character, some overlap, between what made them attractive to you and what made them disloyal?

I think that one is worth some thought. It may hold the answers that many are looking for.

SS

FF: "Are you doing better? Is NC still in place?"

Thank you for asking FF. I hope you are doing well too.

I am wonderful, actually. I am reworking the personal improvement part of Plan A. I am getting a life that is not primarily an extension of FWW. Hard to explain, but I lost myself in trying to meet her unmeetable EN's for so many years. And she seems to be improving too. Anyway, my overall outlook is better than I can remember in a long time.

NC is problematic. LTAs are usually so far underground and low intensity and theirs was so work-oriented there was no way to know before. Short of hiring a full time PI for months, I doubt I could know now. To say I have to trust without verification is too simple, though. I have written, signed promises, I have certain contacts, and I have my spouse radar. But if she wants to continue contact I might never know until she makes a mistake again (which is the way I found out both previous times).


GC: “But is it possible there's some intersection in their character, some overlap, between what made them attractive to you and what made them disloyal?”

You can be sure I have pondered this. GF and FWW could not be farther apart (well, except in infidelity, as it turns out). Different looks, different personalities, different religious backgrounds. I consciously looked for someone antipodal after GF. And I took my time. Families were different, schooling was different. Interests were different. GF was outgoing, tons of friends and generally a live wire. FWW was more of a homebody, studious and introspective. GF had many other BF in college. I was FWW’s second BF.

As near as I can tell I went so far in the opposite direction I came back full circle.

Both sought me out, pursued me actually, at first. Maybe there is a clue in that.

As near as I can tell, their characters intersect at the junction of entitlement on steroids and a total lack of personal boundaries. GF never having them in the first place, FWW never needing them until too late.

But still pondering….

With prayers,

So do you have a copy of Snarch's Passionate Marriage for this work? Sounds like a nice fit. Do you still feel like her EN's are unmeetable? Entitlement is such a ugly thing isn't? That is what drove me to my A and what I lost when I was humbled in my newly found belief in God.

As for me...hmmm...well the A is essentially over except for a few minutes of phone contact for him to speak to OC. The A phone was returned and OW has a b/f. I am still undecided as to whether I want/can/desire to stay in the marriage. His entitlement, his deceptions and continued lies, his family involvement in continuing and supporting the A and the whole OC issue is a lot to overcome. As of yet he has not shown me anything concrete except for handing me the phone that he wishes to change. So I wait because what is my hurry? I have sent the D financial discovery paperwork in to my atty and will hold off on signing the papers until I decide.

No date this weekend SS except for a date to clean our yard which has been long neglected by my WH.

No date this weekend SS except for a date to clean our yard which has been long neglected by my WH.

That tells a lot. If he was trying, he would be working hard to meet your needs.

Is it becaue he is in withdrawl, or because he is a jerk, or because he doesn't care. If we had the answer to that one, it would help you know.

I agree you don't have to hurry, but do you have a time line? I would encourag that, if you don't already have one.

At least a time line where you take a hard look at where you are, and make decisions.

I have learned that if a person continues to make excuses, but doesn't produce real change, you don't have any thing.

Grin - I'm telling you things you already know - sorry.

SS

I think it is partly withdrawl and he does not face things well, he is a conflict avoider. I haven't come up with a timeline yet though I know I should. I am just getting a bit past the trauma of the past couple months. The deception and betrayal were very painful and not just by my WH though he is the one that counts. I have realized some things recently that some would say "duh" to...

1. I am worthy of being loved and protected
2. I am capable of making it without my WH.
3. His A was not about me and the continued deception was not my fault. There was little I could have done to change it.
4. Blood is thicker than water.

The deception and betrayal were very painful and not just by my WH though he is the one that counts.

Blood is thicker than water.

I would guess these two go together.

Don't mean to make you talk about depressing things.

If you want to come by Sat morning, we're taking the twins on a hike in Zion. Some of the trails are wheel chair accessable. Just leave H a note "be sure to get the yard cleaned up." ;-)

SS

Sounds truly wonderful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Really accessible trails? Oh wow, I really do need to keep that in mind as a future vacation destination.

Real quick, SS...MIL and OW have become "best friends". OW takes OC to my SIL's to visit and has been introduced to the kids (niece and 2 nephews) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

They could make a movie:
Nightmare on ................ street.

But you know -
We should worry about you, and how you do from week to week. Knowing you still have bad days, it can be good most of the time if it's not yet
I have "Faith" in you.
Hehe he.

SS

Faith this "friendship" will not last, you know that don't you? OW has something in her personality which isn't right, so she is not capable of maintaining a long-term friendship...and as far as the in-laws you are going to have to rise above. Don't let it eat you up, these people are just not worth it, and I'm sorry to say that because I know they they are family to you, but don't allow yourself to become angry and distraught.

You are better than this so don't let yourself get drawn in.

I'm sorry, it seems the horrible stuff just goes on and on in this case.

I'm like Ap in that both Paige's dad and dan were like night and day. Of course with her dad I think it was a short term aboration of character with his life-style as a popular musician back then...and with Dan well it's a way of life.

Me, I think I was attracted to larger than life guys, who are extremely charismatic...now DW was very quiet, shy and the complete opposite of charismatic and I was crazy about him (my taste changed at least where he was concerned). But he was still dishonest. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

The only thing that was consistant is that they all persued me very agressively (like Ap's)...so maybe that is something to take a look at.

I know Weaver, there is something very wrong in her..but MIL took the bait. OW even told me she did this purposely during the pregnancy befriending MIL. She is a vulture in a sweet outer package.

LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now that the worst of things seems to be over, I am ok. A couple weeks ago, even a few days ago and I would have answered differently. Way too much pain and trauma.

My ex pursued me also. The guys she dated before me were all passive. I've met them. It's true. The one she replaced me with is the biggest wimp in the universe, from what I hear.

GC

Interesting. My H pursued me until it came time for M and then I had to give him a deadline. He chose to M rather than lose me. He used that as an excuse to both OW's that I "forced" him into marriage. Maybe we should stay away from people that persue us?

Yep, the old "distance and pursuit" theory...they pursue until they "get ya" and then they distance and if they can't take up the pursuit with you again because you don't "distance" then they take it up with someone else?

I just wonder... is this what we need to examine? The pursuit thing?

FF - Not ignoring you. Give me some time. Very busy.

Engagement party for Jayne and the giraffe Saturday.

Ideas for a gift? I've never given an engagement present.

GC

Gift?
How about HNHN - get them off to a good start.

Or you could give them a new car. That always seems to be appriciated.

How far out is this wedding?

SS