Thanks for sharing, 2long. It is good to have you here by the fire.

Gray. mmmmmm. I will pray for you, brother.

I will pray for a song. That song.

I have been pondering the last few days - children.

XW had her tubes tied after the last child. 3 beautiful kids.

I have no desire to have any more. But I was just wandering through my wondering about the future woman in my life (who I have started praying for), and wondered about the possibility of she wanting kids with me.

The perspective of a child creating a lifelong, unchanging bond is interesting.

I love my kids. I love that XW is their mother. She has flaws. GOD KNOWS I have flaws.

I wondered how she would feel if I had more kids, and now she can not.




I love the campfire.

I have recently spent some time on another forum (a shopping forum, sortof), and it really contrasts the quality of people in MB, and here at the fire.

All of you people are special.

Thanks for being my friend.

Gray - you have a lot of neat people who care for you.

Peace, brother. That is my prayer for you. And music. (which sometimes comes not from peace.....)

far

That's what I did too FAR, and the man I am dating said he did as well. He prayed and imagined me into his life.

I made a list of exactly the qualities I wanted, and then I went a step further and wrote down what my ideal relationship would look like. And then I worked on myself so I could be someone worthy of that relationship.

My list looked like this:

Must love children
Spiritual
Laughs easily
Hardworking
Handy
A good dad, brother, son
Creative
Adore my daughter and me
Must be kind

And he is all of the above. He is not musical although he loves music, and he is artistic in landscaping and in his gardens.

Keep praying FAR and visualizing what you want your future R and life to look like and it will happen.

"build it and they will come" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I, too, envisioned a man -- one who came into my life like a thunderstorm soon thereafter. I'm glad I did it.

I am very happy with the man who came into the doorway when I finally opened the door.

One thing that has always been a puzzle to me, though, is how I draw to me people who are not interested in kids.

I have a suspicion that it's because of my own history and status. I have a condition called Premature Ovarian Failure (POF). It basically means that my ovaries don't function -- they're shriveled up to about the size of currents (they should looke more like grapes) and act exactly like the ovaries of someone who's been through menopause. They've been like that, near as I can figure, since I started to go through puberty. In fact, I didn't exactly go through puberty the way most girls would. My breasts and other female characteristics didn't develop nearly the way they should have, and instead my body slumped into the kind of slaggy plump that, well, a 60 year old woman would have. I also developed osteopenia, another old-person's condition, and various other things.

I was 28 when I finally got a clear diagnosis -- my own resistance to further invasive testing, as well as a medical community that doesn't expect to see this stuff in children that age, meant that I went undiagnosed for a very long while.

That matters only slightly, because there isn't a lot that can be done. For the last ten years I've been on hormone replacement therapy, which allowed my breasts and hips to grow into a more standard female shape (though I'm still not curvy like that by any stretch of the imagination! just pudgy). That and lots of weight-bearing exercise, and lots of calcium, has helped the osteopenia quite a bit. There's still the ongoing higher risk of heart disease -- estrogen levels significantly affect the body's production of cholesterol.

Dear me, I've gotten off track. All of that is something of an aside to the main point I was going to make -- POF also, of course, means that my body does not produce eggs. As near as I can figure, I've ovulated maybe three or four times in my life, and the last time was more than 15 years ago. (I didn't realize until I was 34 or 35 that I had had hot flashes since I was 14 or 15. I thought everyone was like that!)

So.

The whole issue of having babies has been something of a non-standard journey for me. When I was 16 years old, I figured that I would adopt babies or take care of neices and nephews. And somewhere in there, I internalized a message that is, perhaps, impossible for a 16 year old NOT to get in a situation like this one: "You are defective. Not a real woman. Not worthy. Broken."

Out of that came a lot of things. Try adding that to the first hesitant attempts at understanding sexuality and (at that time) boys when you're a fat, nerdy girl with coke-bottle glasses. First you shut down and become completely asexual. Then, when a boy finally notices you (much later), you think you're only lovable when you have sex. You decide that since you can't have babies, you don't need condoms or birth control. (Thank god this was in the early days of the AIDS epidemic.) And when you fall in love with a woman at the ripe old age of 22, you allow as how you needed eggs AND sperm to get the job done, so it really doesn't matter which one you start with.

And from there, my experiences with polyamory may be more understandable than they usually are.

So here I am, more than 20 years since that entire arc of experiences began. I have a daughter, one who I got to "pick" both egg and sperm donors for. (And no, I do not think of my ex as just an egg donor. But it's the right term for how I put together the elements necessary for me to have a daughter.)

I want, very much, more children. There are no easy solutions to that problem.

If I had an embryo, I could probably carry it to term. My uterus works fine. If I had sperm, I could find an egg donor. If I had an egg, I could find a sperm donor. either way, I could make empbryos and probably carry them to term. It "just" takes money. Quite a bit of it, of course.

Or I could adopt. US or international? Open or closed? Infant or older child? Developmentally normal or some kind of disability? I'm 38 years old, single, and financially stable. It's possible that I would qualify, but not guaranteed.

And it takes more than that. I look at the struggle and stress of my life now and I know that I don't have the resources to raise more children by myself. Balancing DD, work, and time with HoFS is already hard enough.

And HoFS.

HoFS doesn't want more kids. He's got three of his own, and has plenty to do raising them. I've known that he didn't want more kids since the first time I met him. It's one of the reasons he didn't get involved with me a long time ago. One of the reasons we both looked for other people to be with.

It didn't work out that way, and we're together. And so now I'm faced with an even more impossible situation than before. I used to say it would take at least two miracles for me to get pregnant. Now? I think it would take four or five. I'm not laughing, God. I'm really not.

And so the one thing on the list that I envisioned -- loves kids, wants more of them -- seems to have shifted to my own unconscious belief that I am broken and unworthy.

Isn't that just.... wonderful? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> And yet, that belief that I'm like that seems to be fading. It is slowly being transformed, perhaps because my age and my experiences are finally catching up to where my body has been all along. More and more, I find that I'm still the way I've always been -- and the women around me are starting to look more and more like me. I've looked this way for 20 years, so I have a little more experience of how to do the look well. More and more, I think I look like how women my age are supposed to look. More and more, I'm comfortable acting and being a woman.

And yet this one area still stands firm, apparently unresolvable.

More meditation and contemplation on it, I think. Miracles are, of course, always welcome.

I think this applies to Gray right now - and all of us at times.

An old Cherokee was teaching his grandchildren about life. He said to them, "A battle is raging inside me ... it is a terrible fight between two wolves. One wolf represents fear, anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego. The other stands for joy, peace, love, hope, sharing, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, friendship, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."

The old man fixed the children with a firm stare. "This same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other person, too."

They thought about it for a minute and then one child asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old Cherokee replied: "The one you feed."



Gray, you know what the wolves are inside of you - please keep feeding the right one.
SS

I really love that parable SS, how true it is.

What happened to mug's thread? The single OW? I could have sworn I was posting on it.

Where did it go?

That *is* a GREAT parable, SS. Thank you so much for sharing it... so very true.

weaver, I think the thread is gone. I was also checking in and had written once... something must've happened during the night. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Everyone,I had a dream last night about my grandmother. It was so wierd... because in the dream... well, let me just tell it, and if anyone is in a dream-interpretation kinda mood, maybe you can help me understand it.

I am in my parent's basement - and it's filthy (which it soooooo ISN'T in real life. My mother cares very much about appearances and has a BEAUTIFUL home - including the fully finished basement).

My parents are home but I only see my dad. My kids are there, but I only see my oldest daughter. I see my sister. But I know everyone is there somewhere in the house... like a family party.

I am cleaning a bathroom counter, which is covered with dirt and hair. I stop for a moment and turn around. I notice a VCR and TV in the main room. I go to it and put the tape in. The TV comes on and begins to play snippets from holiday and other gatherings of the past.

I see myself when I was in my 20's, 30's... I'm laughing, but complaining about my hair (which is funny, because the only other thread I joined this week was about hair and how much I don't like my current style LOL). And I see other family but can't remember any of that now... just a feeling that I saw them.

I get the idea that my mother had been putting this tape together for my grandmother's funeral, as a tribute of some kind.

Suddenly, my grandmother's face is on the screen, a closeup, and she is saying something that I sense is very important, but it's all static-y and I can't hear what she's saying. Plus, the noise upstairs has become almost deafening. I am upset because I can't hear her words, but I can hear her voice. The tape stops and I go back into the bathroom with no thoughts of what any of it meant. I begin to clean again.

The end.

So, I have some thoughts -- the basement is probably my psyche (the deepness), and houses almost always mean "self". The dirt means some unfinished (yucky) business.

Other than that, I haven't given this a ton of thought (I will later, hopefully with your help)... I have tons to do today and my H's son is on his way, so I'll have a busy weekend.

Since her last illness and death, I have been keeping a journel (ETA: I originally wrote "journey" - fixed it for ease in reading, but thought it was interesting enough to note) with any dreams that have my grandmother in them -- and usually they are beautiful and she's telling me that she's watching over me and loves me. This one was so strange and different. I really want to know what it means.

And don't forget this is the week my grandmother's watch stopped, which I think *must* factor in somehow.

Anyone game?

Well I don't know anything about dream interpretation, so can't help at all there. All I know is I'm glad you dream of her because you obviously loved her very much. I love dreaming about my parents.

As far as mug's thread, I am a more than a little annoyed because so many of us poured our hearts out on that thread...some darn good writing on that thread and I can't even find any of them using the search function.

My last post I poured my heart into.

Can the original poster delete an entire thread? Do the mods delete entire threads?

I agree it got a little troll'y at one point, but even then I don't like anyone except me disappearing my thoughts, and who can decide what is good and what is bad...what words can get through and help someone... and I imagine most people who put effort into their posts feel the same way.

Okay n_b I'll play.

Maybe she was trying to tell you to stop worrying about your hair, because you are beautiful!

Or maybe she was telling you to let it grow long, because a woman's hair is her crowning glory (hence you cleaning the throne), and that it is important to keep it shining clean...because when your hair shines the whole world shines!

Okay, some one else jump on in and interpret her dang dream now.

A guy wouldn't have a clue as to what this dream meant, I'm afraid n_b.

Hey weaver,

Thanks for the ideas! And you're probably right -- guys probably wouldn't be interested in interpreting my dreams, though a truly ENLIGHTENED guy might! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm thinking something deeper, but hey, I'm a deep thinker ALL THE TIME, ya know? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

On the other recent subject: I also have poured my heart out on many threads throughout the years, including (if I remember correctly) MUG. I always hope that my cautionary tale will help guide someone away from the baddies in life, especially the ones WE PUT OURSELVES INTO. I guess the saying is true: Experience is the teacher. Too bad we humans don't learn more by EXAMPLE. At least, I rarely did.

I have no idea what happened to MUG's thread, but I do know that a member cannot delete an entire thread and a moderator won't do it unless there is something pretty bad in it... or at the originator's request, though not on a whim. Something must've happened. Something significant.

Anyway, I'll be working on my dream just because I think it's something I need to consider... I love dreams and take them as serious messages from my subconscience... which of course means that I *know* the meaning - somewhere inside.

The watch stopping, and the dream are about the same thing.

Your grandmothers "watch" is over. It's time for you to take over for your self. She was telling you things you already know, so it wasn't important for you to hear her. Deep in side, you know what to do. It remains for you to do it.

Don't get distracted by the problems of life. All of us have them, they are necessarry to cope with, but they are not essence of life. (your hair, cleaning the counter)

Don't let the noise drowned out your goals - or keep you from living your dreams. Don't let every day things keep you from doing what you know are the most impotant things.


SS

Well, SS, ***that's interesting***...

<hmm... rubbing chin and looking thoughtful>

While some of what you say resonates completely (and feels so right I think I'll just claim it! LOL)... some of it feels... not as right.

Today I may just have to really think about this. I've copied and pasted your responses (weaver's, too) onto a Word doc, so even if I can't get to it today, it's forever in computer-posterity (that doesn't mean "rear end" does it?).

Have a lovely Sunday, peoples, and see you later, or Wednesday or next weekend... I have a schedule now. LOL

AS you probably already know, only God knows our dreams, and our thoughts.

Prayer often brings increased understanding.
I highly recommend it.

May God be with you.

SS

I hope I didn't kill this thread with all my dream-talk.

Don't let Weaver hear you say that, you might get a lecture on self esteem. (just teasing Weaver)

I doubt it, it's the nature of the campfire.

You OK?

SS

Hi SS, Actually, I have a headache. Does it show? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I'm okay... I just hoped my dream wasn't a big ol' bucket o' water on the fire, that's all.

If that's a self-esteem issue I'll just throw it on the heap with the rest of my issues. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, NBII, you can add it to your heap o'issues. But that's okay. It's a kinda cute heap, you know. We still love you.

Say, have you heard from Soulloss? I keep meaning to ask you and this is as good a place as any.

Oh, and NBII, you'll note that no one had much to say about my really long post. I guess I could put it on my heap o' self-esteem issues. Err. Except that I can't find it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You're a brat, J. No issues, indeed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

No, I haven't heard from soulloss for about three weeks. She called right before she left, and I tried to call back twice, but couldn't get her. I'd hoped to hear from her by now... and I would have sworn I saw John write a few days ago on someone's thread. I just can't remember which one.

I guess this means you haven't heard from her either... I hope everything is okay. If I do hear, I'll tell you, and you do the same for me, okay?

J, your post left me without anything to say. In a good way I mean.

It's been an eventful few days.

Saturday I joined my family to bury Aunt Dorrene's ashes.

Sunday I attended a party at car4love's house. Was even there when her daughter was dropped off, though I was sequestered out back, entertaining little kids, for that part.

Today I had a swim and met a friend for a beer. At home I had a message on my machine from my ex's health insurance carrier. A computer voice said her new name.

I get the point already. Geez Louise.

Meeting car4love's friends was an experience. I was definitely a curiosity when I first arrived. I reckon they'd heard a thing or two about me.

One of the people there is a big-time evangelical. Lots of home-schooled kids, etc. She said, "Let's talk" and man did she have a lot to say. She was very nice. She said she prays for me. I said thank you.

GC

Yes. I am a brat. Have me on a bun with fried onions, green peppers, and mustard. Wash me down with beer. Smile.

All this talk about food - and me with a diet lunch.

Sigh........

SS