Emptiness? What emptiness?

I don't have any problem, certainly none that moving away could solve. It would be an adventure, and there's not much reason not to except family, friends, and career.

GC

Ok Mr Post deleted -

SS thinks for a while.......

It's hard to know what to say now - not having read the deleted post.

Maybe you wrote in the heat of the momemt, and then thought it didn't fit well.

Remember we're not writing here just because it's cool (though it might be) or because we like you, it's becasue we care about you. Your thoughts and feelings are important.

You are important.

Not trying to get you to re post - but remember the care and concern is real.

Besides, you have a good sense of humor, and that's worth a lot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

SS

Later Edit:
I see you wrote while I was posting.

I'll let mine stand, and add this -

niner niner !!

This emptiness.

J, I've been depressed before. The low moods I experience nowadays are not in that category. I don't consider them to be a problem that needs solving. I don't think the amplitude of my moods is unusual, considering my circumstances.

I don't need a good reason to move. Maybe I just wanna go live by the ocean. Always have. Did once, briefly, and LIKED IT.

GC

Go to the ocean Gray, if it is calling you. There are friends there, whom you have yet to meet, who miss you too.

As for me, we spent last weekend on Mackinac Island for the Lilac Festival (along with a small fortune). It was beautiful of coarse, but GB and P did not do well together. P is 11 and GB is 46...enough said, eh? They both think the world revolves around them, and then there was me in the middle, just thinking the waiter was moving slower than necessary with my drinks.

Yep, I won't be vacationing with the two of them again any time soon. Not unless the hired help can move a little faster with those drinks, that is. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think dating and children doesn't mix...so until they both grow up, I will keep them apart.

Oh and she did go and tell her dad on us (triangulating TA says it is called)...we kept her up way too late listening to a band, and made her late for a social meeting she had at 11 am the next morning. I kid you not on that one...and this is why GB kept calling her little miss 30, and she wasn't too happy about that either. Me, I just tried to ignore them both most of the time.

At least Gray, you won't have kids to complicate your future R's. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

GB must be YOUNG (like 40-something?) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Don't worry, he'll grow out of it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

So for a father's day present, my DD and SIL invited me over 2 watch a movie on DVD. Son came 2.

We watched "Donnie Darko".

Hard 2 explain that one. Rather dark, but very, very interesting. I love indy films.

-ol' 2long

Huh. Weaver, HoFS is the same age as GB. He has three boys (16,14,9). I have a DD (3). We have now had them all together on three separate weekends, twice at his house and once at mine.

It's stressful. It's -hard-. It's scary, particularly for the older kids who understand that they have a lot resting on how our relationship goes. (Where would we live? Will we still see dad? Does he still love us? Will we have to live with J and her DD? Will we have to live with mom full time? Will he start to love J's DD more? What happens if they get married? What happens if they break up? Etc. etc. etc.)

It may be that it was a little early for you to combine your DD and GB. It must've been a challenge for both of them. At the same time, that's the thing about dating when there are kids. You're not just dating the parent. You are, in some way, courting the entire family. There is no such thing as taking one without the other and never will be. Separate the parent from the child? Sure, if you want an occasional date as friends. Do it long-term in a relationship that you want to last? Not possible, I don't think.

Not that I think there are good solutions, mind you. I have seen over and over again that the 16 years HoFS has had kids means that he understands them and their reactions to things much, much better than I do. From a jerk of the head and a single word, he can surmise a whole host of thoughts and reactions, and do so with great accuracy. I'm left standing there going, "Okay, how do we know that we're going to go out in half an hour? I missed that completely..."

That leaves a gap. A hole that only their other parent could ever hope to fill. I can't, and I know I can't, and do not wish to fill that gap. And yet, it means that if we form a family unit, it will be one that is very different from the one I grew up with, or the ones that SS or 2Long have. I know, guys, that your marriages aren't perfect. You still have that deep, intuitive understanding that arises from knowing your children their entire lives. HoFS and I will not have that about each other's children. It will create stresses and strains that I can only begin to guess at right now.

And, of course, all of that time spent on integrating kids into a family is time that you do not spend building your own relationship as a couple.

Sheesh. Is that hard work, or what?

Some of you know that polyamory is a part of my past. I think that building a step family is as hard as polyamory, maybe harder. Forget adding one intimate partner to a couple and the four relationships associated with that. Having failed at that, am I instead going to try building one intimate partnership, relationships between the two adults and the four kids, relationships amongst all the children, and a whole-family gestalt. HOW many very close ties does that make?

There are times when I think the whole prospect is crazy. And yet I persevere, and so will you, Weaver. Just keep your eyes open and your ethics focused and remember that you have to pay attention to protecting you and DD from harm, and accept that there is a certain amount of potential harm in every human relationship. Sometimes that makes the two hard to balance.

I wasn't talking so much about low moods, Gray, as much as I was talking about emptiness. Lack. That indefinable "something" that's missing from your life right now. I am very glad you're not depressed. It makes it much easier to look at the lack and to see whether going to another place would help with it or not.

JJ,

This is it, in a nutshell. He doesn't know my daughter, although he did raise one (22 YO now), and because I have raised her to say what is on her mind, to think for herself, to be spirited, open with her thoughts even when others disagree, and she is very confident ...well as you can imagine, hard for him being from the old school where you did what you were told and with a smile on at that.

I will keep her out of it for now, it is too soon as you said and our relationship cannot stand the strain of this at this time...and she is not happy about me dating him, nor the last one. I am beginning to think she was hurt worse than I thought by what happened with Dan ...and she was also told last night that her Dad and Stepmom are separating. She is very upset about that and told me she cried herself to sleep after, so worried about her baby sister, and because her stepmom was crying very hard.

I need to keep her life as stable as possible right now and will not force a relationship between her and GB until much more time has passed and one develops naturally between them.

You sure are right JJ about how hard it is, BUT it would be worse not to try again at all. Kids need to see their parents healthy and happy, and in good loving relationships even if not with each.

LOL 2long, I guess that didn't sound very good, did it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Know what I saw at the grocery? Already toasted mushmallows.

Wrong on so many levels.

There ought to be a law.

Weaver, it sounds like keeping your daughter out of the mix is a really good idea right now. Your daughter doesn't need to be hurt again, particularly with the stress of knowing that her dad's marriage is in trouble. I'm very sad for her about that -- the major change of a divorce can be so painful for a child. That's one of the reasons that I am coming, slowly, to sincerely hope that my ex and her husband remain married. DD speaks of "Mommy and [husband]" as a unit, and has come to view them as permanently together. She is attached to him quite strongly, and all the interactions I see between them are affectionate and healthy. I know that a marriage like theirs has a lower chance of success than a first marriage. And yet ... I hope, for DD's sake, that they make it.

Weird, to be in that position after opposing the relationship for so long. But what's done is done, and it would cause even more harm, at this point, to destroy that relationship. (Besides, I don't really want my ex to be such a mess again. It would make my life difficult.)

And then there's this part, Weaver. You said, "You sure are right JJ about how hard it is, BUT it would be worse not to try again at all. Kids need to see their parents healthy and happy, and in good loving relationships even if not with each."

You know that I am in a relationship and very much in love, and wouldn't give it up for the world. And yet, I also question whether you're right about this, Weaver. I question myself regularly. Is it right to take the time away from DD to give to the relationship I'm building with HoFS? It does if I'm building something that will increase DD's safety, security, and overall happiness. That might happen through increasing my own safety, security, and overall happiness, or it might be through building hers directly. Or, preferrably, both.

On the other hand, there is the potential that I would build an unstable and insecure structure, one that may come tumbling down on both our heads. That wouldn't be good for us, nor for anyone else who might get caught in the mess. I would want to build a structure that supports HoFS and his boys too, for example, and any other kids or family who might be associated with it.

Tough choices. It's hard to know whether you're building something strong. It's hard, too, to predict the future and know what's best. I think about it a lot.

Already-toasted marshmallows. So that's what those brown things I saw out of the corner of my eye were. I didn't go back to look.

And yes, wrong on so many levels.

This is all so interesting to me. I CANNOT imagine having another man in my girls' lives. Our house is a pretty 'open' house. Lots of nakedness, squealing, arguments. It would have to change and it would take such an amazing, incredible man to make that change worth the risk. It's not that I wouldn't want to date, but to actually co-habit whilst the girls are growing up seems like the most alien, unlikely thing in the world.

Life is so busy I can't even imagine finding the time to include a man. It is something I can foresee in the future but not whilst the girls are so little.

Weaver, You fall in love so wholeheartedly. It's quite beautiful but so opposite to me. I'm far too cautious and sensible. I honestly don't know what it would take for me to loosen up and let myself go. Lots of gin and tonic might do it.

I'm so sorry about P's dad's relationship. It's a lot for a little girl to go through no matter if she is 11 going on 30. She sounds a very smart, sensitive girl. This sounds like a juggling act for you trying to keep everyone happy, but perhaps you and your manfriend can just take it really slowly so nobody feels pressurized. How would you feel if P NEVER warmed to him and vice versa. Is it a possibility you have thought about? TT

Oh TT, thank you for this...I was worried since our differing opinion.

It is not the right time for you to be in a relationship, that is why you feel as you do but after your girls are grown some more I think you will feel like I do, and your heart will open wide up again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Gosh TT, it sounds like you have such a happy home and I am so happy for you!

My daughter JJ, has not been sheltered from much...she watched both my parents (both addicts in the end) die, and I never hid any of it from her...her capacity for compassion/kindness is huge (like all children), I didn't teach her to be embarrassed, ashamed or afraid of illness or death. I taught her to embrace it, because it is life, as much as birth is.

She will never worry about me, or suffer through my pain as I did with my parents. I will never allow that to happen. I carry my stability and happiness within me now, and that cannot be shaken (not for long anyway).

Now what she needs is to see me model a loving relationship, she needs this for her own peace and happiness as she grows and leaves me.

And at this time, because I do not have that R yet (just dating GB and he is new) I will not subject her to it beyond anything very casual I decided.

And I pray that her dad and stepmom work their problems out too for her sake as well as her baby sisters. I hate divorce now, I just hate to see families separate...we all do I suppose. It is just so wrong, but when it happens we must still find a way to regain what was lost.

My heart is open to loving because I see love all around me and because I know that this is our purpose, and yes the romantic kind too.

I don't think I've ever heard any Daniel Lanois before.

But Sling Blade was on the Lobotomy Box the other night, and I liked the version of "The Maker" at the end of the movie.

"Oh, oh deep water, black and cold like the night
I stand with arms wide open,
I've run a twisted line
I'm a stranger in the eyes of the Maker

I could not see for the fog in my eyes
I could not feel for the fear in my life
And from across the great divide, In the distance I saw a light
Jean Baptiste's walking to me with the Maker

My body is bent and broken by long and dangerous sleep
I can't work the fields of Abraham and turn my head away
I'm not a stranger in the hands of the Maker

Brother John, have you seen the homeless daughters
Standing there with broken wings
I have seen the flaming swords
there over east of eden

Burning in the eyes of the Maker
Burning in the eyes of the Maker
Burning in the eyes of the Maker...

Oh, river rise from your sleep..."

And me all areligious and all... (don't tell FH!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
-ol' 2long

What should I make for dinner tonight? Criteria:

- Must be able to feed me, four hungry men (two of them teenagers), and a boy.
- Must be able to be prepared indoors (because it looks like rain)
- Must be either quick to prepare or something that I can hold for a long while; dinnertime is uncertain

I'm going to go to the grocery store this afternoon, so a real long prep time may not work either.

Make hamburgers and broil them in the oven.

Do you have a bread machine?

You can make homemade buns....I'm making this Sunday.

I've got the recipe in my cabaza for the bread if you need it.

My gf from high school sent me the whole first season of Fraggle Rock. We're gonna swim and watch Fraggles and Doozers Sunday.

I do have a breadmaker, yes. Yeast is one of the many things already on the list. If I'm making burgers though, I wanna do it outside. Hmmmmmm.


Fraggle Rock. Heh. Cool.