Hi Noodle,

Yeah, I still deal with memories of some of the OM... in fact, some more than others... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Time, at least for me, does NOT take the memory away... but the severe pain associated with those memories isn't nearly as sharp.

Anyname wrote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Other people who've healed, tend to present their healed state as something that you can DO. e.g. follow MB principles and get a perfect marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...Well, I didn't follow the MB principles 100% and I sure don't have a 'perfect' marriage... but my M IS better than I ever dreamed it could be. IMHO, it's not the amount of time that makes the difference, it's what both of you do with that time that makes the difference.

I think that the effort that our WS works on rebuilding the M and reaffirming their love and commitment to us directly impacts the effects of the OP in our lives. Lots of effort by the WS = Less impact of OM/OW... Little effort by the WS = More impact of OM/OW.

So for me, it's a team effort. I've learned that my W can only do so much in helping me get over the OM... and at some point, I must make the choice either dwell on them or let them go...

I've gotten to the point that when their memories come up, I'd much rather let them go and face the wrath of a just God, and focus on things that I can do to build my W up with love...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

::::...Well, I didn't follow the MB principles 100% and I sure don't have a 'perfect' marriage... but my M IS better than I ever dreamed it could be.

It depends what you had to start with. We had enjoyed a long and close marriage (many thought we had the perfect marriage as did I). My H has repeatedly stated that he wants his old life back. He says he was the happiest person he knew before he chose to fall victim to a female, half his age, who approached him for what he thought was "fun times". It hadn't occurred to him that a 26 yo girl wouldn't really want to have fun times with a 50 yo balding man (who could pass for ten yrs older after a big nite out), and that she had a totally different agenda in mind. (money - which she openly asked for)


:::IMHO, it's not the amount of time that makes the difference, it's what both of you do with that time that makes the difference.

It takes a lot of time to accept a husband that chooses to thumb his nose at a happy marriage in favor of a piece of dirt girl whose only English skills are "can you give me money"?

Obviously I didn't feel in the mood to work on a marriage with a man that could sell out for so little. I'd spent 30 yrs of marriage treating him extremely well - I lost the will to work on anything - including living. That's as honest as I can be. I let him work on the marraige and I just tried to survive the hurt.

AN

Dear Noodle, dear Anyname,

two years is a long, long time for you both to still be hurting so much. There has been NC, there was no EA, OW is out of your lives, especially in Noodle's case. That's good... prolonged contact makes it very hard to heal..

Only you can decide to let go. It's like quitting smoking... you know it's bad for you... but it's a habit that's hard to quit. It's annoying if others tell you "you should stop" because you bloody well know that yourself.

At what point will you let go? And get your life back?

noodle,

I'm not in marriage recovery(personal,yes)but I understand the STAIN/SCAR that this OW left on your life.Not everyone can "get over it" or grow beyond it.Times' passing and doing everything to rebuild your marriage is still, sometimes,not a solution.

Even if my WH decided to come back today and wanted to reconcile,I know that that point is over.What remained was the result of the nuke that went off and left me for dead.The exchange of words that caused pain,the thoughts of homewrecker and everytime she spread her legs too that I would never be to get over,the requests for my WH to leave me,the betrayal,the lies,the selfishness,the IDEA that some woman out there is involved with MY(then) WH.The wondering.The thoughts of revenge on the homewrecker(only one way in my mind).

Some acts in life you survive but don't get over.You live another day but the memory of the adultery sits with you like an unwelcomed guest,taunting you with visions that no one wants but,nevertheless,appear.You can try to retrain your mind to not think about these revolting images but it's not so easy.You know there is a scar,you can try to cover it up,but your mind still knows it's there because these people still exist.Your WH is there with you,the physical.But the OW,she is alive too,on the planet somewhere,exisiting which gives her some kind of meaning although she doesn't deserve it.

IMO I feel infinitely better having disconnected from my WH and all that he caused me.I am not saying that you should too but in my case,time was the ENEMY.Much too much time has passed that has slammed the window closed on any opportunity on forgiveness and marriage building.Each day that WH let pass without making a committment to me and our children/family was one more day that I was farther away in mind,body and spirit from this man.

I don't have any specific advice but only wanted to express to you that I understand,to some degree,the depths of what an OW has on your soul and how it affects ALL aspects of marriage,you,your life,rebuilding,people,the world and people's roles in it,etc.You sound like a strong woman to me,as I am,but it doesn't mean that what you had to endure can ever be erased just like anyone else that goes through a traumatic event.

The one person on the earth who was entrusted to protect and care for you ABOVE all other's,made a mockery of that very vow.It's an extremely tough issue to resolve,if you are able to.I can only hope that somehow you and your FWH can find the answers you both need to make the marriage one in which you are both happy and comfortable with.But even more than that,I hope for you the best outcome.Sometimes it's not what we want but what we need.

O

Is she ever going to go away?

Yes ... it's a phantom thought.

How do I get OW out of my bed?

Well... I can only share what worked for me...

ready?

really REALLY *REALLY* rough sex... almost to the point of violent.... my poor hubby almost got an ear chewed off...

Leave your mark....

The OW disappeared when I took over and rode him like a wild woman on a bronco (horse not the Chevy)

I'd really like to be able to enjoy sex again.

Be a sexual bulldozer and plow her under

It'd be great if she would dissipate like the specter that she is.

Take charge... and be scary and loud as hell in the sack.... Be more powerful than the thought of her.

The phantom goes away at around the 2 year mark....

remember

be rough
take charge
scare the hell out of the phantom

Pep

PS... I only recommend this for BW's not BH's ... a different tactic altogether.... I doubt that rough sex with a FWW will do much but scare the FWW!!!!

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

I can tell you my h's ow feels no shadow. I spoke to her on d-day (found cell phone bill and called the number), when I asked her if they were having an affair, all she would say over and over was "it doesn't matter". when you discover your h is having an A of course it matters! That infuriated me so much. Then afterwards she had the guts to leave a vm for my h about him having the decency to tell her it's over. To her thinking I was nothing but a stumbling block. And now that my h and I have decided to work on things I refuse to give her any more time in my life.

PEP, MY LOVE!!!!


You always come through for me.

I've been having this OW STRUGGLE!!!

I've been searching for an answer and you've got the perfect solution.

RIDE HIM !! RIDE HIM!!! LOL!!!

If your remember anything at all about my story, you know that this shouldn't be difficult for me at all.

Oh, and thanks for sharing that I have one more year to go.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:


RIDE HIM !! RIDE HIM!!! LOL!!!

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just don't kill him ... but it's OK to leave some marks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Pep

I agree with Pep 100% and can only add that while I was rocking his world, I grabbed a handful of his hair pulled it HARD looked into his eyes and said "SAY MY NAME"

He did and after that every time OW tried to crawl through my head during sex I thought of him shouting MY name...lol did alot for our sex life too.

I've been making him SAY MY NAME for months now. He does it every time. It's a great strategy!!

Wow, you never know what other people are doing.

Dear Brown hair... did you read my long post to Noodle? Your reponse doesn't seem that you did. I love your posts normally. I love your perceptiveness. But you didn't seem to understand what I was saying. IMHO, I have not been able to DO anything about my feelings - but I said that I think time eventually does it for you.

This whole issue of why people take too long. Well think about it. In any situation you have the full spectrum of people. Some that do great and some that do badly. I might be a hundred times better than you at something else in life - in fact I sure I am. What seems easy and natural for me, might seem difficult, cumbersome or down right too hard for you.

It really isn't a case of deciding to do better. Many people say this - but I am not like that. We are not all the same - we are vastly different emotionally. I met up with tummytuck a couple of weeks ago - she's so emotionally stable compared to me. This is her nature. Her personality is layed back and she's dealing with the worst possible situation and she's doing really, really well. I've have gone out the window in her situation (21 floors up).

I saw something about infidelity on a British program last nite - some famous British poet killed herself in the sixties after discovering her H was having an A. She gassed herself leaving her children behind. Then the mistress, who was a typical mistress (married) became consumed with guilt and eventually gassed herself and a four year old daughter.

Brownhair - we are all different. We aren't carrying on this pain for the fun of it.

AN

Wow, this topic went to a very strange place. A place I like.

Noodle, since I am not in recovery, I do not know what will work for me (if I am ever so lucky) or you. I can say what has been helping me through the pain of loss.

One interesting thing about the human brain is its ability to control itself. With practice, you can think and feel anything, unless your brain is broken, but from your posts, I think your noodle works great. When you start to feel or think anything, there is about 1/4 of a second when the nerves in your brain start to fire and when you actually experience the emotion. The coolest thing, is that you can learn to recognise that 1/4 second, and squash the signals before they come to pass (make 'em say YOUR name). You can actually stop yourself from feeling anything!!!

That may sound scary, and for people that are worried you would be missing an important part of the healing process, it takes quite a while to get at all good at it. So you will have plenty of more time to feel like crap. I have been trying it with my anger towards my WW and it can work. I get so mad at her for what she is doing I actually started to see and hear things!!

Well, that was the man from mars speaking to the woman of venus, but my intentions are good. I hope it helps you in some way. Remember, you control your brain and you CAN help yourself.

Good luck!!


BTW, pep, if me and my WW ever work it out, please tell her your idea, cause it might help me get the prince (I call the OM that, as in the devil, the prince of lies) out from between my wifes legs. Excuse me while I daydream for a bit ... ... .... :-)

l8r

Jen,

No, none of S_’s affair makes sense to me. None at all. Sorry.

Not how it started – they jumped in bed within 48 hours of meeting for the first time. He was a total stranger to her! Not how long it lasted - for ten years. Not how it survived DD1 and intensive MC back then. Not the double life. Not the mountains of lies. Nothing.

But it’s probably just me. MC told me once that I do not have the mind-set, the innate selfishness, to even understand affairs, let alone have one.

I’ll give you a simple example. They started their A on his daughter’s first birthday. Both knew this, of course. Where is basic consideration, not to mention love, of a father for the consequences of his actions to his own baby? Where was W’s empathy for a defenseless child? For the mother of that child? This makes no sense whatsoever to me. I could never do this to my own baby, or anyone else’s.

Here’s another. After DDay 1, W told me with real tears in her eyes she knew how much she hurt me; she begged forgiveness and swore she would never do this again - while she was still seeing him! Explain this, if you can.

No, I do not understand. I don’t think I ever will. I’m apparently not from the same planet as adulterers. It's alien to me in teh extreme.


Bob,

IMO, a ten-year LTA is qualitatively and quantitatively different from a few months fling. I know everyone’s hurt is just as real. But I am dealing with something pretty dang big here. Further, OMM dropped W after I confronted him in person. Dropped her like a hot potato. She was abandoned where she stood. Sort of the same thing happened to your W, as I remember, when you exposed. So are we really their chosen number one or are we the old standbys when they couldn’t have what they really wanted?

T

I know OMM hanging out in our bedroom is my problem. I didn’t let him into the house, but evicting him is now my job. So why am I having so much trouble with this?

Have you ever had a canker sore in your mouth? Remember how your tongue gets a mind of its own and will not leave it alone? It hurts so good.

Well, my mind has, um, a mind of its own sometimes, too. It will not leave OMM’s prowess in bed alone. No matter how hard I try, no matter what stop signs I erect, I still see the movies of them writhing together. It’s a pretty graphic porno flick, but it doesn’t hurt good at all.

SF is not one of my top ENs. It’s not one of my W’s either. Yet she jumped for OMM, ripping her cloths off as she ran, to him every time he crooked his little finger at her. OK, I exaggerate for effect. But that’s what it feels like to me. I have seen the emails. I can quote the paragraph saying how good he is in bed. But she said she sometimes felt raped after being with me. (This was startling news to me, although this was after the A started, so there is probably a connection there somewhere.)

I love my beautiful W and family. I truly do. That is why I am still here after ten years of few of my ENs being met and two DDays. But, she deeply loved OMM for half our M, almost a quarter of her life. The attachment is very strong. Experts (e.g. Cerri) say this attachment never goes away. It’s a glowing ember that will last the rest of her life. It could flame up with mere accidental contact or some unhappiness in her life.

I got over it after DDay1. OMM was nowhere near our house that I could see. But getting over it again is a horse of a different color.

This was an LTA with no realistic plans of living together. It was something on the side for both of them. They both told me this. Him especially. I think kind of A is different from one where they plan to run off and live together, but I can't quite put my finger on it. I wonder if he was a marital aid, as Pitman says in Private Lies. That makes me inadequate as a husband and a lover by definition. I really have to face it.

Don’t misunderstand me. W is doing all the right things. NC letter, and I believe there is NC this time, so far. She has participated in MC, Retrouvaille, IC (but quit recently) and we talk a lot. POJA, no LBs or DJs, minimum 15 hours a week together. Tactically, things are very good, all things considered. But 10 years! Strategically, I am afraid to let my guard down. I did after DD1 and look where it got me.

The last 10 years of my life is insubstantial smoke and mirrors. A magic show intentionally scripted and operated by my wife and OMM. Ten freaking years! The prime of both our lives. The best of her given to a scoundrel who didn’t really care about her. He just knew what to say and when to say it to keep her on his string.

Where do I find the empty decade of my life? Is it represented in my subconscious by the Freudian haunting of our bedroom by OMM?

Of course! Safety, that is the answer. I said it myself. I do not feel safe. I still feel exposed. OMM’s shade may be an illogical means of self-protection. But self-protection it is.

T

Thos, Just read both your posts to my FWH. You are the recipient of a great injustice in life. I hope you have had your share of suffering and that the rest will be kind to you. You write very well.

AN

Pep:

YOU GO!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

"PS... I only recommend this for BW's not BH's ... a different tactic altogether.... I doubt that rough sex with a FWW will do much but scare the FWW!!!!"

A different tack, yes.

Without going in2 details, for me that was "being good"... ...in the SACK!

I truly don't have phantoms like that anymore. Probably killed them off about 2 years ago even though we weren't anywhere near recovery then.

The "general phantom" comes up again from time 2 time even now, though he's far less insideous than he ever was.

The truth is that the BS has ALL the power 2 destroy the phantoms and that the OP never had any. Realizing that and acting on that knowledge may be easier said than done, of course.

Wow, it's been 34 month since D-day. Personal recovery? Yes. Marital recovery? Not yet.

best,
-ol' 2long

PEP AND ALL:

I'm checking in to report a GREAT RODEO PERFORMANCE THIS MORNING!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


Makes a great day a work with no thoughts of the OW!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "Blasting, billowing, bursting forth with the power of 10 billion butterfly sneezes
Man with his flaming pyre has conquered the wayward breezes
Climbing to tranquility far above the cloud
Conceiving the heavens clear of misty shroud"
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

When ever "SHE " comes into the bed with us ,,,I would freeze up ....

Now ,,,,,,,,,,,"I SEE DEAD PEOPLE" (OW)

It makes me smile again and then well I have this burst of happiness and then ..... well PEP'S PLAN works at that point !!!!!!


Taking the image of her and H doing it and repalceing it with oh ...

A man standing over her stabing her or ME on top of her slitting her throat does wonders .. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And yes ,noodle ,,I got to agree this does gove OW the POWER in away ...

although she don't know what we are thinking ,,,imagine if she did ,,,SHE WOULD LOVE TO KNOW IT !!!!

Man see what this post did I was trying to pray for OW ,,and be above all this hateing stuff

now I got to go find my happy place ,,,

The other happy place not the OW should be killed place !!!

OH man all screwed up again !LOL

Dear Anyname,

I'm sorry if you felt I was somehow "attacking" you (or Noodle) in my post.

Maybe I should have explained better. I wasn't making this a recovery race or comparing "times". I just tried to share my way of dealing with my own stubborn holding on to bad memories and negative stuff in general, wallowing if you will, or worrying, that sucked the life out of me.

I found out that I needed to kick the habit of being "Mrs Betrayed by H and BF" or "Mrs Miscarriages" or "Mrs no Children"... It does become a habit - thinking over and over about the hurt, the betrayal, the "how could they" etc etc. or about the other losses in my life.

I needed to become myself again. Focus on the good things that were important to ME. I was lost completely in my M, I wasn't myself anymore, long before the A, and to heal that was to heal the pain of the A as well.

I was genuinly worried about Noodle, and about you too, seeing how you two were still hurting so deeply and how Noodle's pain and hate still seems so fresh even after two years. It makes me wonder why, and what could help.

Not all M's will recover, that's not what I'm worried about, I'm worried about you two ladies not recovering yourself, your self-esteem, your love for life. Because I know what that feels like.

Sorry again if you felt offended.


((((Anyname))))
((((Noodle)))))