</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Iceprincess:
<strong> One advice to you: be careful when you post specifics about your situation. There have been people on these boards who collect information on members (MBs: remember the "Dustkitty" problem). Don't get into trouble with HIPPA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

All the best, </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I agree. There is so much more to the story that would have made it more identifiable, so I think it was anonymous enough. I could not really get any more specific as I agree, HIPPA could be an issure here, although I doubt it. Anyways, thanks for reading the post.

Lemon-Man
JL said:

"In a very odd and unexpected way, you have been granted the ultimate revenge. It was not revenge that you sought but by the fact of your skills, you willingness to take the risk, he owes you big time and there is no way for him to repay you."


I am convinced (with few exceptions) that folks that engage in extramarital affairs have character flaws. Wayward women may have low self-esteem and wayward men are predominantly selfish and manipulative.

I agree with you on one thing, before the affair starts there is no fog and the WP and OP make conscious decisions to cross the line at a time when there is no addiction to the A.

Let me change the ER/OR scenario just a little bit:

Pretend that the OM is the surgeon having an affair with your wife.

The ambulance brings WW (your wife) with minor scratches and the BH is moribund (in this case that would be you).

Do you think a surgeon with the typical character flaws of an OM would go the extra yard to save the life of the BH? If you think about it the death of the BH would be convenient for the affair-------- don’t you think?

Lets face OM is deceitful by nature and now he has the life of the BH in his hands! SCARY!!


BTW, if I had been in your shoes I would have done everything to save the OM's life. Thank God the OM lived! The OM will ultimately be your wife's biggest nightmare!

<small>[ December 06, 2004, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Lemonman -
Your experience gave me chills. During college I worked in the ER nights. One night a wonderful friend came to the ER with a bullet in his brain. The emotions are indescribable.
You have lived through everyone's worst nightmare. May your higher power bless and comfort you.

<small>[ December 06, 2004, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: believer ]</small>

Lemonman,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> THis is why I KNOW For a FACT That there is a higher power in this life. YOu are right, he lived to protect me. I know this and to this day it shakes me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, my husband thinks that the other woman was put in our lives to make him realize that what he wanted and needed was what he already had. He kinda thinks that her death was simply due to the fact that her purpose in life was complete.

I understand how this higher power can shake you. In other circumstances, another surgeon could have been the one to take the page. You would have found out about them being together and you never would have had to touch him. Wouldn't that have been easier? I think the same thing, couldn't my husband have moved out and then realized that he wanted me? Why did it have to involve a relationship with someone else for him to decide that I was worth something to him. (Long story)

I know that there is a positive lesson to learn and personal growth in every thing that happens to us. Have you figured out what it was that you were supposed to learn? I am still trying to figure out what mine is.

Cathy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:
<strong> Lemon-Man
JL said:

BTW, if I had been in your shoes I would have done everything to save the OM's life. Thank God the OM lived! The OM will ultimately be your wife's biggest nightmare! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOU know secretely I think you are right. With his living, she forever will be linked with him. SHe has to face herself everyday knowing she helped break up another marriage and have 2 young children lose their intact family. I have at times been consumed by guilt for what happened to the OM family and children (they lost their house due to his extreme finanacial neglect to pursue my wife). I don't know why I feel guilty I just do, almost like my XW was a family member and she did wrong so that I need to feel bad also. I have been giving money to the OM's wife and children (through a unknown third party) so those kids can have some kind of X-mas. This money doesn't mean $hit to me (I have enough) so if it can bring a few hours of joy to these kids and wife then I would be happy. The biggest heartbreak for me is when I hear about those kids in such pain over this divorce and the depression that their father has went into. It is all so sad. The lies and deceit of an affair go so much deeper then the 2 people involved in the affair.

It always amazes me how clinical skill and knowledge can take over in the most trying of crisis....

Sometimes for a milli-second in all the chaos you get distracted when you make eye contact with a peer...and in those seconds see your own fear reflected in their eyes....

It is not till finished that your knees shake and the tears come....
whatever the outcome....

thanks for sharing....

many continual blessings to you lemonman..
though it is already evident how blessed you are...

Godspeed on your continueing journey...

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I could not really get any more specific as I agree, HIPPA could be an issure here, although I doubt it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't see any HIPPA violations. There wasn't any patient identifying information given. Everything was very vague and generalized. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wow Lem, Thank you for sharing your story. It does open you up and makes you vulnerable. You have done EXACTLY what you have needed to do in your situation. I can't begrudge a BS who decides to D. The only thing that kept me in my M was the kids.

And thank you for helping the OM's family out. Money can make such a HUGE difference in the life of a family teetering on destitution.

Your posts sometimes irk me, but that has to do with me, and I am working on my life...
I think of myself as a very open-minded person, not prone to making sweeping remarks about groups of people assuming I KNOW what a group of folks should or shouldn't do, what they are feeling, what they are thinking...and parts of your post get my hair up because I think you are doing just that. But, I am NOT that kind of person, and make sweeping generalizations, and am working on it...learning to be humble.

Thank you for coming here. Is it hard for you to ask for help? It is for me, but it does come easier being anonymous...not sure why. I wish for you....PEACE.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by boobyprize:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I could not really get any more specific as I agree, HIPPA could be an issure here, although I doubt it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't see any HIPPA violations. There wasn't any patient identifying information given. Everything was very vague and generalized. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not to mention that HIPPA is a US thingy and lemonman, I believe, is not a US citizen.

TB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:
<strong> [Not to mention that HIPPA is a US thingy and lemonman, I believe, is not a US citizen.

TB </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps you have me confused with someone else. I am infact a US citizen...LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

[Not to mention that HIPPA is a US thingy

HIPPA is a satanical thingy...created by the new world order rank...to divide and conquer...and promote isolationalism and create an environment in which mind-controling drugs and treatments can by further perpertrated....

hows that for a monday am conspiratory theory...
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

spin it baby....

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:
<strong> [Not to mention that HIPPA is a US thingy and lemonman, I believe, is not a US citizen.

TB </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps you have me confused with someone else. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, call me confused, it wouldn't be the first time.

But of course, I could just be trying to throw the Feds off track.

{edit} which now dovetails quite nicely with the above conspiracy theory {/edit}

Carry on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

TB

<small>[ December 06, 2004, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: javaSansContour ]</small>

Crikey, the whole thing sounds like an episode of *ER.*

If I may ask -- how did your XW and OM happen to be brought to your hospital? Coincidence?

I enjoy your posts, too. I'm not much of a success story, but I too often feel that some folks here stay too long in Plan A. I don't think I've ever read of a case where Plan A worked by itself without going to a cold hard Plan B.

Maybe you should change that sig to "Plan *B* away!"
Mulan

Lemonman,
You helping out the other family is such a wonderful thing, and doing it anomously (?) shows how true and genuine your heart really is.

Oh what your wife gave up!

By the way great game yesterday (watched it while I was painting), I am so happy the Eagles kicked the packers [censored] <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> The Vikings played so poorly- but you creaming the Pack keeps us tied for first place in our division!! Yeah <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mulan:
<strong> Crikey, the whole thing sounds like an episode of *ER.*

If I may ask -- how did your XW and OM happen to be brought to your hospital? Coincidence?

I enjoy your posts, too. I'm not much of a success story, but I too often feel that some folks here stay too long in Plan A. I don't think I've ever read of a case where Plan A worked by itself without going to a cold hard Plan B.

Maybe you should change that sig to "Plan *B* away!"
Mulan </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, LOL, now that I think about it, I can see why people would think this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (maybe the screenplay is a good idea-)although this post maybe makes it seem more dramatic than it really was. As for why they came to my ED....It is the ONLY major trauma center in the area, EVERYONE in this 100 mile attachment area comes to this center for trauma. I don't think it was a coincidence at all. It is where anyone would go.

As for my sig....I really don't believe in the PLan A the way it is practiced on this MB. Maybe I should change the PLan A to Plan B away...I will take it under consideration. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Are you sure this is all a true story?
You saved OMs life and you also help the OMs family with money but "no one" knows?
Boy, I think you should be canonized pretty soon!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FrederickGirl:
<strong> Are you sure this is all a true story?
You saved OMs life and you also help the OMs family with money but "no one" knows?
Boy, I think you should be canonized pretty soon!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL, you know I am afraid everyone is getting the wrong impression here. I gave a few hundred bucks to a pastor of the church of the wife of the OM and they gave it to her. I don't feel like I saved this guy's life. He has since needed another Operation to reverse his colostomy bag, and other things. I think this is kind of getting out of hand. I didn't want to post this story for fear of this exact thing happening. I can honestly understand how some people would be like WTF?, but honestly that is ok. This is more about trajedy than good doing. I would never expect to be cannonized for "doing my job". Giving 500 dollas to a woman in need of something good in her life is not a big deal. I would like to think that many people would do the same in my shoes. Like I said, I can never be as good as many of you who can forgive multiple infidelities and still save your marriage. I am not that strong, and this is something I freely admit to. It is all perspective.

Forgiving many infedelities does not make us good- it makes us dumb (okay it would in my case only-please no one get mad at me). What you are doing is an unselfish act- no desire for anything in return. You have made mistakes I am sure, but you see a woman and two small children who's world was ripped apart by a self-centered man and your stbx-wife (I will refrain from the name calling on her, since she was your wife). You are helping where you can, probably because you feel some how slightly responsible. You are right you have a little extra money- where she does not.

I remember last year at Christmas, I had NO money. I had nothing under the tree, I cried so very hard because I had nothing to offer my children. I made sure Santa did because I did not want them thinking that they were naughty. Luckily some kind soul left presents for them- still do not know who. I cried so hard (and am now) out of the bitter sweetness of it all. What you did was a great thing- never down play that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> You are helping where you can, probably because you feel some how slightly responsible. You are right you have a little extra money- where she does not.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is just it. I don't know why, but I feel like I am partly responsible for this in her life. It was my failed marriage that effected her kids and has casued this devestation. Maybe a part of me did it to ease my guilt...I don't know. I do know that I am by no means a Saint ans should not be loooked at as being "cannonized". Pulllezzze...I am gonna be putting in overtime just to get in "upstairs" on the waiting list.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lemonman wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think AT TIMES when many of you praise a BS FOR "fighting for their marriage" through humanly intolerable behavior, it is actually weakness and cowardness that makes them stay. I don't always see it as "being strong" It is a lot easier to stay in a $hitty marriage than leave it. This is not always the case. but that is how it is a lot of the times around here. Maybe I am wrong, but that is how I see it so much.

I think self esteem PLAYS SO much a role in these situations. I think many people here think so litle of themselves that they will tolerate near anything to "stay married". Their marriage defines their life. They fear too much on being on their own. I understand we are all different but this is something that I wrestle with so much on here and it gets me in trouble a lot of the times. I don't completely buy the premise that affairs come about because of EN's or whatever not being met. There are MANY MANY men/women who cheat "just because". MANy men cheat on their wifes after a new baby comes into their lives. Many men/women continually cheat because they need the "ego" boost. This may all have NOTHING to do with the BS. I think far many people cheat becasue of character issues than people admit on here. ONce again, just my opinion. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I pretty much agree with you, Lemonman.
There have been many times when I questioned myself that my reasons for staying married were based on what you wrote (that my marriage defined my life, that I had low self-esteem, that I was in fact too weak to go through a D, that I thought D would be mean a failure on my part). I felt a fool, early in our last recovery, for staying with him. We have a long history, and three kids together. I wanted to believe that he could be better and not allow himself to enter into another A.

With MB, I believe I have gotten stronger and if another A occurs I doubt I would stay married. I would accept that his character flaw runs too deep and I would be fine if I moved on. I would believe that there would be a hope for a better life without his drama.

All that said, we do have a better marriage now than pre-A's. He is being his better self. We all have the capacity for sin and falling prey to temptation. I still believe that there can be happy endings even after a few false recoveries.

Would my life be alright now had I divorced him a few years back? Probably. But, right now I am glad we are still an intact family...grown kids and all. I think our kids are happier this way too..even though a couple of them may have thought I was weak to stay with him too. I think they respect my today. They also have a restored respect for their Dad.

You did give your wife a chance, you did try to recover. She failed to make it through withdrawal. I understand your choice to D her after she continued in her A. It is especially true since you don't have children together. It is sad you had to have her renewed contact exposed in such a way.

I probably extended much more grace in my H's 4 yr A than the average person would put up with. I guess that shows just how low my self esteem was during that time. I was more prepared to D after his last A...but then he made a very credible effort to recover with lots of remorse, repentance, and reassurance.

I am sure you will make it through your D and move on to have a great life. You will make the right woman a great H someday and I hope you are able to experience becoming a Dad.