</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
I do know that I am by no means a Saint ans should not be loooked at as being "cannonized". Pulllezzze...I am gonna be putting in overtime just to get in "upstairs" on the waiting list.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can add humble to your list of attributes as well :-)

I truly believe that good people will come out ahead in life, and I think you have a lot coming your way.

I'm positive that the LM screen-play will have a happy ending! Keep on doing what your doing...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Trix:
<strong> Lemonman wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think AT TIMES when many of you praise a BS FOR "fighting for their marriage" through humanly intolerable behavior, it is actually weakness and cowardness that makes them stay. I don't always see it as "being strong" It is a lot easier to stay in a $hitty marriage than leave it. This is not always the case. but that is how it is a lot of the times around here. Maybe I am wrong, but that is how I see it so much.

I think self esteem PLAYS SO much a role in these situations. I think many people here think so litle of themselves that they will tolerate near anything to "stay married". Their marriage defines their life. They fear too much on being on their own. I understand we are all different but this is something that I wrestle with so much on here and it gets me in trouble a lot of the times. I don't completely buy the premise that affairs come about because of EN's or whatever not being met. There are MANY MANY men/women who cheat "just because". MANy men cheat on their wifes after a new baby comes into their lives. Many men/women continually cheat because they need the "ego" boost. This may all have NOTHING to do with the BS. I think far many people cheat becasue of character issues than people admit on here. ONce again, just my opinion. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I pretty much agree with you, Lemonman.
There have been many times when I questioned myself that my reasons for staying married were based on what you wrote (that my marriage defined my life, that I had low self-esteem, that I was in fact too weak to go through a D, that I thought D would be mean a failure on my part). I felt a fool, early in our last recovery, for staying with him. We have a long history, and three kids together. I wanted to believe that he could be better and not allow himself to enter into another A.

With MB, I believe I have gotten stronger and if another A occurs I doubt I would stay married. I would accept that his character flaw runs too deep and I would be fine if I moved on. I would believe that there would be a hope for a better life without his drama.

All that said, we do have a better marriage now than pre-A's. He is being his better self. We all have the capacity for sin and falling prey to temptation. I still believe that there can be happy endings even after a few false recoveries.

Would my life be alright now had I divorced him a few years back? Probably. But, right now I am glad we are still an intact family...grown kids and all. I think our kids are happier this way too..even though a couple of them may have thought I was weak to stay with him too. I think they respect my today. They also have a restored respect for their Dad.

You did give your wife a chance, you did try to recover. She failed to make it through withdrawal. I understand your choice to D her after she continued in her A. It is especially true since you don't have children together. It is sad you had to have her renewed contact exposed in such a way.

I probably extended much more grace in my H's 4 yr A than the average person would put up with. I guess that shows just how low my self esteem was during that time. I was more prepared to D after his last A...but then he made a very credible effort to recover with lots of remorse, repentance, and reassurance.

I am sure you will make it through your D and move on to have a great life. You will make the right woman a great H someday and I hope you are able to experience becoming a Dad. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Trix:

Thanks for the kind comments. Congratulations on saving and reinventing your marriage. Despite what many think, I am alwways happy when a marriage can be saved for the "right" reasons and the "right" way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LM,

How is your MIL? My hope for both of you is that you can maintain a great relationship with her.

And about those innocent children you're helping, I'm sure you feel real peace in helping them as you are.

Your wife??? Yikes, sounds to me like she has a pretty healthy self-destruct instinct. My hope for her is she finds a great IC and learns from her mistakes. There has been enough pain and tragedy to go around already.

How about your personal recovery from all of this? I'd like to think that you can take the lessons from His Needs Her Needs, and have a great future relationship!

<small>[ December 06, 2004, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: CSue ]</small>

Interesting reading....

Kind of helps explains some of your "bitter" posts. (meant sarcastically....not mean)

It is so good to have a dissenting opinion on these boards. I respect that you keep coming back. And now that you have shared your story, I am glad and hope it helps you.

I normally post on the Preg and Child board, and I am glad you received so many positive posts.

Hang in there pud,

ent

Lemon,

The day after D-Day I had 4 surgical cases scheduled and I must admit it took every scintilla of concentration to give these patients the surgeon that they deserved. Like you, my training( and I fervently believe the Lord) took over for my brain and hands. While my cases weren't life and death, the reality of creating a life long complication always looms.

Since that time,a small voice in me tries to convince me that I am a fraud and now everyone will know. But like every surgeon that I know, if you can't have an ego in the OR, you don't belong there. Like you said these A's wreak destruction on everyone they touch, even peripherally.

BTW I also told my WW after D-Day that I would do anything , including walking away from my practice, if it would bring us back together. The Lord has wisely shown me that would have been a huge mistake.

Lemonman

Thank you for sharing your story. I am sorry that you had a story to share. I believe we are used through our trials and even our good times. You have touched so many lives and given many people much to think about even if people did not agree with what you said. Others you have helped out such as myself when I had a question about STD's you were right there and I Thank you.

You are touching many people through your pain instead of using it to hurt back. That speaks volumes about your character as a person. The pain you stbxw will feel after she realizes all she has lost will be incredible.

I believe the Lord uses us in many situations and wants us to share with others. I pray through all of this you find peace and comfort.

Lemon,

They didn't call you Meadowlark?

I must add my thanks for your post and your thoughts.

I think AT TIMES when many of you praise a BS FOR "fighting for their marriage" through humanly intolerable behavior, it is actually weakness and cowardness that makes them stay. I don't always see it as "being strong" It is a lot easier to stay in a $hitty marriage than leave it.

As I read other posts here, this runs through my mind more often than not. WHY ARE YOU ENDURING THIS TREATMENT???

I know that my decision to divorce my wife is justified. I am a good man who is not defined by my marriage failing.

I totally agree. We are defined by WHO we are.

Plus it sound like your WW was hooked into this guy prior to your arrival on the scene. "First cut is the deepest" (?) (Cheryl Crowe)

I have dated a number of women in my life BUT NO WOMAN had ever made me feel so completely and utterly "in love". I was whipped and worshipped my wife.

Whipped and worshipped...very well put.

I wonder if we love TOO much. Can/should we love so...TOO much?? Can we help it? Is it the chemicals and phereomes saturating our brains?

Anyway, you are a sane and grounded member of the MB fraternity/sorority. Very glad you are here.

k

Lemonman,
Just so you know, one of the "issues" I'm personnelly dealing with is "expressing how I feel". Due to the nature of my job, Emergency Dispatcher I have to handle suitations without emotions also, and that is my "back up mode". I am also a volunteer EMT. My WH is and so isnt the OW. It was very hard for me to go on a run, and have to work beside her, and unfortunatly I have backed off of something that I truely enjoyed. But she dose have more experience and considering she is a RNNP she can be more of assistance in that type of setting.
I agree with the feelings of Why do we do this to ourselves? The continued "fog" hoping it will lift. Thats something that everday I think about, then look at my 3 boys...
I would like to think you for your post though and I enjoy reading them. There are times when I'm at my limit, and I keep seeing your sig. line... plan A, plan A...plan A ...away
Keeps me inline! (Also helps encourage me to practic patience!)
keep posting!

<small>[ December 06, 2004, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: allirose89 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by allirose89:
<strong> Lemonman,
There are times when I'm at my limit, and I keep seeing your sig. line... plan A, plan A...plan A ...away
Keeps me inline! (Also helps encourage me to practic patience!)
keep posting! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OH Ddear GOd. Keeping you in Plan A would never be something that would advise. I Am changing my sig line now...MOSt people know that I am almost ANTI-PLAn A as it is practiced here on the this board. I am soooo sorry for this confusion.

lemonman,

there is no way I could ever judge you and your decision to end your M. Only you know what you can live with, and what you can't.

As someone who has major trust issues and forgiveness issues (even before my H's A) I can truly understand where you are at.

No need to explain

albw

lemonman

thanks

I don't want you to misunderstand me! LOL... it a reminder to me, this is where I need to be Plan A, with a Plan B getting in place (Since I moved out 3 months ao with the boys and my lease here is up in March, so...) My suitation at this time is to be supportive to him. Not only ref. his A, he has a serious health condition with heavy meds that effects his emotions and behavior. I enjoy reading the information here, but know that I have to make my own choices and be responsible in those actions. I'll act on what feels right to do, but a 2x4 helps every so often. So I hope you don't change a thing, and keep up the posting.

BTW - I'm an EMT, So I know where to keep the band aids Put the on, go on and learn from it

<small>[ December 06, 2004, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: allirose89 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by allirose89:
<strong> I don't want you to misunderstand me! LOL... it a reminder to me, this is where I need to be Plan A, with a Plan B getting in place (My lease here is up in March, so...) My suitation at this time is to be supportive to him. Not only ref. his A, he has a serious health condition with heavy meds that effects his emotions and behavior. I enjoy reading the information here, but know that I have to make my own choices and be responsible in those actions. I'll act on what feels right to do, but a 2x4 helps every so often. So I hope you don't change a thing, and keep up the posting. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL< I Am glad that this is now resolved. I felt horrible there for a minute.

lm:

I have 2 run, and so won't get 2 read all the responses you've gotten (I'm only on page 3!), so apologies if I'm repeating anyone here:

I think what you went through, and particularly what you did, say a lot about you, possibly even some things you might be missing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Treating the OM in the ER like you did was risky and very brave. If he HAD died, as others have said, you would have had 2 live with suspiscions that you had a "hand" in that happening. That had 2 factor in2 your decision 2 work on him when you did, and that was a very brave decision you made.

You did what you did because of WHO you are, not just what you are. Sure, your professional integrity played a big part in your decision 2 operate on him, but your personal integrity drove you harder, I'm thinking.

All "affairy tales" are tragedies, it's true. The BS is certainly not obligated 2 stay M'd after being betrayed like that, and you have been one of those 2bly unfor2nate in that your W "pretended" 2 want 2 rebuild, but continued the A unabated.

I believe you've earned a DV, if that's your decision.

I also believe you've earned a whole helluva lot of respect as a man and a professional, for the difficult choice you made.

best,
-ol' 2long

LemonMan! I haven't posted in a few weeks...I really needed time away and try to figure things out on my own...I wanted to comment on your thread though.

Your sitch gave me chills! I dont know why...My WH works in the ER often for extra income...and dont get me started on the extra income OR the extra hours...one of the reasons we are in Marital crisis to begine with...

Anyway, you said that you would give up everything for your wife if she so desired...that is one thing my WH refuses to do...He owns his own rural health clinic, is the director of 5 Nursing Homes and does ER once a week. I have asked him to quit at least that ONE nursing home that the OW works at..he wont...EVERYONE has told him to quit! he wont. Says, he cant right now cuz of money...

Right now, he is begging me for another chance...AGAIN! I cant do it...I just cant do it anymore...I have come to a place in my life that I am OK to go on without him...He has ANOTHER CHILD on the way with ANOTHER WOMAN <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> that is hard to swallow the more I think about it...REALLY hard, especially since WE made a decision TOGETHER for me to have a hysterectomy. (lots of problems after the babies were born, you know)

Anyway, I am not certain what the purpose of my post is...just to let you know that *I* am going to be OK, without my WH. He has chosen this life..it has taken me a looooong time to get to this point. I am still struggling with it sometimes...and for some unknown reason I feel sorry for him...I feel that he WANTS to get out of it, but he cant! He CANT PROMISE me he will never see her again...I am ok wtih this now...he can have her...I am moving on...It is what I have to do...Well, I have rambled enough...Thanks for sharing your sitch LM...I wish you luck in all you do and hope that you are happy!

kandi

I will not be able to read anymore till I get home, 1am...what a long night, but the information I do gather here, I keep in the back of my mind, esp with the suitations I deal with in a night. I gather facts, deliver facts, do not adv, but every now and then that one call stops you and makes you think. God gave you a gift, and you used it for the better. I think it takes a very strong person to do that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by momto3boys:
<strong> LemonMan! I haven't posted in a few weeks...I really needed time away and try to figure things out on my own...I wanted to comment on your thread though.

Your sitch gave me chills! I dont know why...My WH works in the ER often for extra income...and dont get me started on the extra income OR the extra hours...one of the reasons we are in Marital crisis to begine with...

Anyway, you said that you would give up everything for your wife if she so desired...that is one thing my WH refuses to do...He owns his own rural health clinic, is the director of 5 Nursing Homes and does ER once a week. I have asked him to quit at least that ONE nursing home that the OW works at..he wont...EVERYONE has told him to quit! he wont. Says, he cant right now cuz of money...

Right now, he is begging me for another chance...AGAIN! I cant do it...I just cant do it anymore...I have come to a place in my life that I am OK to go on without him...He has ANOTHER CHILD on the way with ANOTHER WOMAN <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> that is hard to swallow the more I think about it...REALLY hard, especially since WE made a decision TOGETHER for me to have a hysterectomy. (lots of problems after the babies were born, you know)

Anyway, I am not certain what the purpose of my post is...just to let you know that *I* am going to be OK, without my WH. He has chosen this life..it has taken me a looooong time to get to this point. I am still struggling with it sometimes...and for some unknown reason I feel sorry for him...I feel that he WANTS to get out of it, but he cant! He CANT PROMISE me he will never see her again...I am ok wtih this now...he can have her...I am moving on...It is what I have to do...Well, I have rambled enough...Thanks for sharing your sitch LM...I wish you luck in all you do and hope that you are happy!

kandi </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MOM:

THank you for your comments. To see that you are moving on and finding the strength and resolve to move on without him makes me so happy. YOU may change your mind and give him yet another chance, but unfortunately, I TRULY BELIEVE that people like your husband are very sick and are character-less human beings. They can change, but it usually is a very hard and long process. He (dad23b), IMO probably does not have it in him to change, I really don't think he does. I can't ever portend to know what it would be like to be a betrayed mother with three children and not working and having to rely on a husband like yours solely (for $$ and support) must be so hard....infintely harder than my situation. I don't know what to say to you. I hope that you find the strength to stay strong and Divorce DAD....but I Know it will be VERY VERY hard. I know that many here will tell you to continue back fighting for your marriage and be overjoyed that DAD wants you AGAIN, but I can only shake my head at this. When it is all said and done, you husband IS WHO HE IS....HE can change, but it is very very unlikely given what he has done and continues to do. PLease remember this. I offer a hope and prayer for you and your children for safety and happiness this holdiay season. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
<strong> THank you for your comments. To see that you are moving on and finding the strength and resolve to move on without him makes me so happy. YOU may change your mind and give him yet another chance, but unfortunately, I TRULY BELIEVE that people like your husband are very sick and are character-less human beings. They can change, but it usually is a very hard and long process. He (dad23b), IMO probably does not have it in him to change, I really don't think he does. I can't ever portend to know what it would be like to be a betrayed mother with three children and not working and having to rely on a husband like yours solely (for $$ and support) must be so hard....infintely harder than my situation. I don't know what to say to you. I hope that you find the strength to stay strong and Divorce DAD....but I Know it will be VERY VERY hard. I know that many here will tell you to continue back fighting for your marriage and be overjoyed that DAD wants you AGAIN, but I can only shake my head at this. When it is all said and done, you husband IS WHO HE IS....HE can change, but it is very very unlikely given what he has done and continues to do. PLease remember this. I offer a hope and prayer for you and your children for safety and happiness this holdiay season. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks LM...I dont want to threadjack but I am glad you wrote back...I do hope I have the strength NOT to give this man another chance unless he can do some very positive changes...One quiting his job and moving...but I know he wont do that...

It is very unfortunate for ME that I gave up EVERYTHING for him...I married him at 24, while he was in the Army and moved to Germany with him..then followed him around the country while he finished the Army, then residency and then joined a practice and now is on his own...I supported all this...After becoming PG with OUR first child I quit working...so yes, I have relied on him for financial support my entire married life.

I WILL, however, be taken care of as far as getting enough child support from him if we do Divorce...I do know that...he is mad because I own half the business in Texas...I do not want to take this man to the cleaners...BUT, I deserve to be taken care of. I gave my life up for him and brought three children into this world with him and now he has desroyed all that...

Anyway, I know I am now at a point that I believe I am strong enough to walk away from him and the life he has created...I am not bitter or angry, I just need peace...I need to be FREE from the chaos...and I dont feel like I need to Plan B him to save the marriage...the marrriage cannot be saved with as much damage as he has done...if you care of email me please do at cuz I dont want to threadjack your thread anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ December 06, 2004, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>

Mom,

I think given the situation you are making a wise decision. You have given a good shot, and he chose OW. You should be proud of the effort you have given and hope you do find peace.

God Bless,

JL

LM,

Don't think I've ever posted to you, and doubt you've ever posted to me as I'm mostly over on D/D anymore.

I've read the entire 6 pages of posts to you and I'm sure I'm repeating.

What you did was something very wonderful. Whatever the reasons at the time, be it your trust in your own skills or whatever, you were able to look beyond your anger and your hurt from the affair and give your best to the patient and save the life (with God's help, I believe) of the one person you would have probably most wanted to disappear from the earth.

It speaks highly of your character.

LL