Here's a shoulder to help up. Wish it were Squiddy's...but heck...I'll do in a pinch okay?

You'll get your heartfelt apology. I know it.

I hate that fist in the guts thingy. Been wrestling with it myself. Ick.

Squidges.

- Kimmy

Hope so kimmy. It'll happen I guess.

Its a double edged sword thsi new non CA Bob. Old Bob would've just choked teh lack of an apology or retractions but new Bob has more pride and better boundaries.

Time Time Time. Its only been 7 months of NC. We've done great in that time. Need more patience.

FRICK ! Am I ever sick of being patient ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks darl'

{{{kimmy}}}

Hi, Bob.

Quote:
==================================
If Squid , knowing the facts now, still believes that OM is a better man than me, or even barely decent against a common yardstick, I cannot remain with her.
==================================

Okay, you are far enough along now. So tell her what is quoted above. It is time that you found out for sure.

You know he isn't any better than you. If she doesn't, at least you know.

You sit her down in front of you. Tell her you have a question for her that you need an absolutely honest answer to.

"Squid. shortly after D-day, you told me that other man was a better man than me in every possible measurable way. I need to know if you still believe that there is any truth to that statement in your heart, and if so, to what extent it is true to you"

When you get your answer, you decide what, if anything, you are going to do.

Time to stop running from this particular fear, Bob.

God bless,
Gimble

I don't know what I'm going to do. Thats perhaps a reason I haven't persued this for a while.

I last asked Squid in February and she got angry " I would NEVER have said such a thing !!!!!!!!!" as if it was ludicrous that anyone could possibly consider OM a better man than I. It gave me hope but it was not definitive.

A part of this may be arrogance - I know for a fact that OM is sh*t on my shoe but it really hurts that Squid may retain a soft thought for this lying wastrel. She even admitted to me he lied to her. When he dumped her he told her " I was never going to leave my GF for you" when his every love letter said she was his soul mate and he wanted to be with her" etc.

And Squid fought back on that day saying "OM is a decent man, you can hate him if you want but he is decent". She is still ( or was in february) apparrently still delusional regarding the nature of their relationship and OM.

All this hurts me. Maybe I want the impossible - Squid to hate OM as I do. I dunno.

But an apology would help me a lot.

Hi, Bob.

You can't control what she thinks or does. The real question is; what has she learned from the whole experience?

Has she learned that cheating is wrong, that the relationship was based on a lie, that all the lovely and wonderful things that they shared - was crap?

My concern in your situation hasn't changed. When your squid fully faces what she has done, and wants to understand why, then she has started real recovery. Until she wants to understand why, then the best you can do is to follow Harley's recommendations on affair proofing your marriage.

The fact is, she may never make it to the point where she fully understands what she did. You have to decide what you are willing to live with.

That choice really hasn't changed and it is still sticking in your craw. I encourage you to confront her about it. It is your problem, so it is hers too. I think she deserves to know that her action in choosing not to fully understand what she has done, is causing a problem in the relationship. I think it is time you told her how this is affecting you.

God bless,
Gimble

Bob, from my own experience I’ve learned that as far as a FWS’s feelings for the OP is concerned, there can be a very thin line between love and hate… Therefore it’s best for the FWS to reach the state where she/he has NO (or minimum) feelings for the OP at all. Negative feelings for the OP (like hate) can be just as self-destructing as the positive ones. The opposite of love is not hate, it is INDIFFERENCE. It will be better for Squid’s own emotional & mental health to reach the state where she feels totally indifferent towards the OM.

Suzet

Gimble
Squid is desperate to put her affair behind her and would be delighted to never mention it again.

I raised every one of my isses in February when Squid got very upset and cried over a discussing lunch.

I asked how she felt about those statements she made ( that I quoted earlier) and she replied angrily that I should KNOW how she feels about that now !

I pointed out that my supposed spouse psychic skills let me down dreadfully during her affair and that I felt I deserved a reply to my question.

Thats when she got angry and denied ever saying OM was a better man than me in every way, BUT defended OM saying he was a "good bloke".

Now I have studied the wierd dynamics of affairs and how if Squid admits OM is a scumbag, it thows her choice to have an affair with him into the spotlight of scrutiny.

And in truth if Squid really DOES genuinely and forever believe that she had a love affair with a decent man I don't know what to do.

I am frustrated by it.

I disagree with you that my situation hasn't changed. Life is OK. Had Squid not had an affair our marriage would be wonderful now.

But theres a lot of work to do.

Squid is absolutely the opposite of teh sort of analytical person who would investigate herself and teh lessons to lern from her affair. She is almost the anti-Pepperband.

She won't read up on affairs, hates self-help and counselling, everything. She is a classic stuffer. And has spent forty one years practicing that. I have no idea how to help trigger her into self analysis.

She is now transparently unsecretive with me, very loving and caring towards me, very appreciative of me, and is very responsive to my requests. She is flourishing in my deliberate meeting of her needs too.

Conversation tumbles from her at every possible opportunity. She revels in POJAing family decisions now. She supports my renewed headship of the family.
She is now transformed as a mother.

In every way but verbalising her feelings regarding her affair she is doing very well indeed.

Her recovery has not happened in my convenient timescale and agenda. I have to live with that. But she has made enormous strides. Measurable strides.

I am prepared to press for her response to her affair and her views on her post-affair statements.

But not while her Mom is dying.

It is not my job as her husband to add pain to her life while she struggles with this defining situation.

She was in an EA for 2 years and I busted them at the peak of their PA. I think we/she are doing fantastically well for only 7 months of NC.

You told me a while back that 'time is the revelator'.

That has proven to be true. WOuld I rather Squid was completely self analysed by now, but still cold towards me and the kids and not contributing so wonderfully to our lives?

By no means.

Theres a lot of evidence of how Squid feels. Some of this excites me into thinking she really IS making a good , analysed personal recovery.

* She refers to herself during her A and after as 'when I was a crazy b*tch'
* She says " I never stopped loving you,whatever crazy stuff I sad 'back then'. I just got distracted for a while"
* She says " he was never going to leave his GF for me. " ( this is an admission that she realises their 'plans' were bullsh*t.
* she says "when I look back it feels like I am looking at another person doing those terrible things".
* yesterday she asked me how I can love her after all she did. I said I chose to despite the sh*t she put me though. She replied " I know, I'm SO sorry ".

There are many other examples I could write. She is progressing every day and the signs are that her attitude has become that she considers the affair a regrettable and wrong thing.

But despite all this I need an explicit assurance of this.

Time is really working for us, but I have periods of impatience.

This is one of them. Let me be honest - the sit with her mom frustrates the DUNG out of me. There I've said it.

I love my MIL but her moribund state has lasted a year now. So many lives on hold because of it.

Am I wishing her dead ? Of course not ! But I AM tired of this perpertual misery although nothing can be done about this.

It really isn't the time to have the discussions we need to have right now. Squids head is messed up more by the sit with her Mom than it is by her affair. And the two sits are inexorably linked.

* sigh *
very complex.

In summary I think we're doing good considering the unusual situation. I'd need to write thousands of words describing the complexity of our situation, but it would serve no purpose. We have a complex sit , thats all.

What am I prepared to live with ?

Good question.

What am I prepared to live with temporarily is a different question to what I am prepared to live with permanently.

Right now, in view of our extraordinary circumstances I can live with this, and vent on here occasionally.

If Squid hasn't agressively advanced her deliberate personal recovery say six months after her Mom's passing, I wouldn't live with that. What I'd do ?

Don't know. I really don't.

* suzet, thanks !. I agree with you. But I hate OM. I want him dead or crippled. And the extent of my hate makes Squids growing indifference of him seem like fan club membership I guess ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I understand...and I can just imagine how difficult and frustrating this must be for you Bob... I beleive one or other time your W will start to see and view the XOM for what he really is/was… TIME and PATIENCE...

{{{Bob}}}

yo Bob, you are my hero...you and RIF!

Not to play favorites but the two of you went the extra mile for me these passed months.

Your hope has become my hope and many of your issues are mine as well.

Youv'e showed me the way of patience and leadership.
Youv'e showed me the hard work it takes to do what we do.
Youv'e showed me the experiences that helps me endure.
Youv'e showed me that you are human.
A being of this world that is fragile like a flower.
A being from above with the strength of the gods.

The unknown is still our journey and always will be, eh?

It is my firm belief that your maker holds aside a special affection for you because of your pleasing thoughts and actions.

You ROCK bro!

Bob,
Has squid read the quickstarts that Suzet and I did? Has she read the toolkit. Although I have been exposed as quite the hypocrite, and I have not read this entire post...not even close, The information in the posts seems to be good advice that adheres to the principles discussed here.

I wonder if you could print all or some of it and give it to her? I think you have stated she does not read here.

Frankly, I wish someone else would have written the posts I have written, but I wonder if it could be "fed" to her in printed form and maybe it could help.

I have no idea. I will go back to my hole now.

why I am up at 5am and have been up since 2 is a mystery to me..... I really hope that someday she is remorseful for what she did and that the remorse drives her to take care of you and your needs.

I certainly respect you for doing the heavy lifting in your situation. Prayers for you this morning, bob.

g'night.

But Suzet, what a waste of my passion in hating this amoral insect.

He is truly beneath my contempt. He just took advantage of an offer from Squid,doesn't matter if he coaxed her or not. She is lovely, who would not take advantage of such availability if one has no compulsion about sleeping with other people ?

I think my hate is deliberately diverted at OM because I can't allow such to stream at Squid else our recovery would be crippled.

Such is not healthy though. I need to fix this. Affairs are crap and even good recoveries like ours have some very hard times within them.

Sometimes I'm sick of the constant work and the pain and want to run away.

But such times get further between.

I just want to be happily married now, not in recovery.

oops.

My "mommy" has gotten on to me and told me that I am not a hypocrite. THat I should not practice self-loathing. She said that I was the messenger and not the professor of "hey... look what worked for me and it can work for you"

I slay me... get it... "mommy" Because I am a selfish child...

remember? man I'm tired...

Patriot, Squid hasn't read or studied anything regarding recovery but two passages I asked her to read in TA nd HN HN back in January.

She is so ashamed she wants to only forget all this, and who can blame her?

I have offers from FWS on here to talk to her, but she will not today do this.

Thanks P, and Greergan.

Bob, I agree that your passionate hate for OM is not healthy for you (emotionally and spiritually), but I think at this stage your hatred towards OM still serves as a defensive meganism to protect your W and M... As you’ve said, your hate is diverted at OM because your recovery would be crippled (or impossible) otherwise. This makes perfect sense.

You still have a lot of feelings to work through Bob and it takes time to recover from this… 10 months into recovery might feel like a very long time to you, but in reality it is not… Give it time and patience…and be easy on yourself. I’m sure as time goes by and you and Squid go further in recovery, your hateful feelings towards OM will start to subside and fade as well… But if this is really such a big stumble block to you, take this in your prayers to God and ask Him to help relief this ‘burden’ from you and free you from this hatred. Maybe you can also start this process by praying for your ‘enemy’ (OM)… I know the Bible instruct us to do this and maybe this is so because He knows that prayers to our enemies and the people who’ve hurt us, is part of the solution to get inner peace and healing for our own wounds as well… What do you think?

Blessings,
Suzet

I recall reading somewhre that mercy to enemies heaps burning coals on their heads...

Truth be told I still pray for his downfall even though God has loudly told me that his GF and son need SOMETHING to respect in him upon which to rebuild their relationship and that I am not the only victim in this sitch.

I'm fed up. rr. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Look at me ! Miserable bugger ! LOL !

I need to smell what I'm shovelling right now.

Life is not bad. Recovery is progressing well. My baby loves me. OM is out of the picture.

The future is ours.

And my baby just took me to bed at midday and had her way with me.

How dare I complain ? * sigh * so frail are we humans...

Thanks Suzet.

Lucky you. Best time of the day for a bonk. TT

bonk

LOL ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You can take the girl out of London but...

So what is it in the Midlands. I'm sure it's not SF!!

TT

Bonk is brit-universal, but it s a London term originally !

Just made me smile imagining you in cosmopolitan HK with only expats knowing what 'bonk' means ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Do you know London well. I'm from Pimlico. A real central London girl.