I've worked in London a lot, but never lived there. Pimlico s really fashionable now.

Yeah, very posh. There's a big council estate that runs down the river between Chelsea and Vauxhall bridges. Most of the flats are privately owned now. 6 weeks to go until I have my annual 'escape'. I love HK but the weather in July/August is pretty unbearable for this delicate English rose! I'll get off your thread now. A bonkless bed awaits.

Hi, Bob.

Old MB'er here(d-day 3+ years ago), but I've been away from this site for quite a while. A couple of observations from one whose marriage has survived (is surviving??) my wife's LTA:

> Obsessing about the OM is a complete waste of energy. He's a worm at best, and isn't worth any consideration from you. I'm sure you've imagined "doing him in" at least a couple of times. Now imagine that you were successful, and he longer exists. Worked for me. In conjunction with what Suzet suggested, of course!

> Your wife may not have apologized the way you'd like yet. My wife probably hasn't either, and we're much further down the road than you and Squid. The reason may be that they have yet to completely forgive themselves, even though we have forgiven them. Guilt of this magnitude is pretty powerful, and until they have fully processed what they've done and fully own what their actions have wrought, they may not be able to give to us that last bit of sincere remorse that we want to hear. I think my wife is close - maybe within days. I can feel it coming. Squid's demeanor and actions as you describe them lead me to believe the same for her - she feels it, perhaps intensely. She just can't say it yet.

> Counseling. I am one who never imagined ever needing professional help, but MC with my wife has been invaluable to our healing. A good therapist knows what questions to ask to get us to say what we are thinking, and to do so in a safe place. I know you said Squid was averse to the idea, but I can't help but think it would help both of you to break through to the next level of intimacy you're looking for.

By the way, if you happen to be in London in the next five weeks and run into a tall, good-looking, charismatic American kid with a tattoo on his left wrist that says "Love God" and one on his right that says "Love Others," say "hi" to my son for me. He's there finishing up his college coursework.

Blessings to you and Squid, Bob. As an outsider looking in, and as one who has walked the very path you now tread, I think you're both on a very healthy recovery track. Leave all the negative stuff in your wake as you look ahead to the joy that awaits you both.

Hi, Bob.

Hi back ! I love to hear from succes stories ! Please hang aroudn and spread your good news !

Old MB'er here(d-day 3+ years ago), but I've been away from this site for quite a while. A couple of observations from one whose marriage has survived (is surviving??) my wife's LTA:

> Obsessing about the OM is a complete waste of energy. He's a worm at best, and isn't worth any consideration from you. I'm sure you've imagined "doing him in" at least a couple of times. Now imagine that you were successful, and he longer exists. Worked for me. In conjunction with what Suzet suggested, of course!

I have a baby sledge hammer and a can of mace in my trunk. I know exactlywhat to do with them. I've savoured the expectation of it: rolled its sourness around in my mouth many times. I feel less pathetic knowing I have only to drive for two hours and I could do it.

He is a worm, its true. If only I could be sure Squid did not still idolise him...

> Your wife may not have apologized the way you'd like yet. My wife probably hasn't either, and we're much further down the road than you and Squid. The reason may be that they have yet to completely forgive themselves, even though we have forgiven them. Guilt of this magnitude is pretty powerful, and until they have fully processed what they've done and fully own what their actions have wrought, they may not be able to give to us that last bit of sincere remorse that we want to hear. I think my wife is close - maybe within days. I can feel it coming. Squid's demeanor and actions as you describe them lead me to believe the same for her - she feels it, perhaps intensely. She just can't say it yet.
This is very very true. I have studies everything I can get my hands on regarding affair dynamics and all the good books ( backed up by stories on here) say that the FWS walk a hard path with wierd dynamics affecting them.

I just wish Squid would open up to me about how she is feeling. There is a HOST of great resource sthat woudl help her if only she would open her mind to studying this stuff.

> Counseling. I am one who never imagined ever needing professional help, but MC with my wife has been invaluable to our healing. A good therapist knows what questions to ask to get us to say what we are thinking, and to do so in a safe place. I know you said Squid was averse to the idea, but I can't help but think it would help both of you to break through to the next level of intimacy you're looking for.
{b] I completely agree. I even found a church-sponsored MC in the UK where I live but they only do joint MC and Squid won't go. " I don't want to tell strangers what a stupid slut I've been". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> If only she would understand that she could RESCUE her self worth through MC not destroy it further. I will continue to try to convince her.

By the way, if you happen to be in London in the next five weeks and run into a tall, good-looking, charismatic American kid with a tattoo on his left wrist that says "Love God" and one on his right that says "Love Others," say "hi" to my son for me. He's there finishing up his college coursework.
I'll keep an eye open when I visit! He should stand out amongst all the Australians in London !

Blessings to you and Squid, Bob. As an outsider looking in, and as one who has walked the very path you now tread, I think you're both on a very healthy recovery track. Leave all the negative stuff in your wake as you look ahead to the joy that awaits you both.

God told me this SISF : " do not let the past anchor you in sadness. It is preventing you for reaching the blessings i am placing in your path".

You just told me that again. Time to let go I think.

MANY thanks for your kid and genrous thoughts here.

All blessings to you too.

If you can PLEASE hang and share your success with the many struggling newbies on here.

Hey BP, get movement towards feeling better about this? And the bonk didn't hurt either.

There were times in our recovery that I felt compelled to get some questions answered. And your timing seems SOoooo familiar to me (BTDT). And the reason I seem to be pushing you so much is that I found when I held off asking these questions/getting answers, the resentment just built up inside of me...and came out like a pressurized water pipe with a small hole...

I found if I approached the conversation carefully..it went well.

It is easy for hte WS to get defensive, to feel attacked, and that is what you are protecting her from at this tender time...but this is NOT about her...it is about YOU...and if you use the word *I* more than *YOU* then, I think, she will feel better.

In one of our last conversations (the one where he yelled he felt like a bad person) I realized that he feels terribly ashamed of what he did...perhaps feeling worse than I do/did?

How to bring this up....

Wait for a momnet when things are quiet, loving, affectionate...don't spring it on her, maybe warn her earlier you have something important to ask her so she is prepared for worse...

While in a hug, or holding hands tell her you are feeling better about your R..tell her of the good things you are seeing.

Then tell her that there have been some things from the past that have come up in your mind that you need to double check with her, and want to know if the words are the same, or if things have changed.

Recite to her some of the things she said, and ask what she beleives about this now (don't ask a yes or no question...too easy for her to say no, and you won't feel reassured), that you have been thinking about it, and although her actions tell you something different, you need to hear words to replace the words she said before.

Be OK with WHATEVER she answers. Ask her if there is anything you can change...

Finish with a compliment to her...

Then (and this is important for the next time) leave the door open...tell her you have concerns that pop up sometimes, you have no control over what triggers you. Ask her what you should do with these thoughts...tell her...save them up...keep them to yourself...write them down...whatever. It will set up the rules for more R talks.

Just some ideas.

There is no reason you cannot discuss this now, or for it to be a MAJOR, traumatic event.

My guess, this is really a non-issue for her, and if she knew how much it bothered you she would want you to talk with her...

WS often change their thinking about an A over time. We've have many a thread where a WS will change their answer to the same question over time. My FWH once said to me "Why can't I have a wife and a girlfriend?" I brought that up to him over a year later and he said, "I can't beleive I said that."

He is a worm, its true. If only I could be sure Squid did not still idolise him...

>> Whom has she chosen to be with now? The guy she just had her way with!

I just wish Squid would open up to me about how she is feeling.

>> She will - when she can. A loving, patient, thoughtful, caring husband is all she needs, and that's what she has.

If only she would understand that she could RESCUE her self worth through MC not destroy it further.

>> So true - especially in light of the demons from her past. My wife had some, too, though not as severe as your Squid's. She needs to feel safe, Bob. If you can find an MC who can provide that kind of atmosphere, I think it might do wonders for your marriage.

I have a baby sledge hammer in my trunk.

>> So, in your best non-CA fashion, use it to knock down those last few bricks of the wall that separate you and your wife from the life of renewed intimacy you both long for. That advice from one CA'er to another.

Bob,
I think its time to get this resolved with Squid. Its been haunting you for so long, and I know you are trying to be patient with her mom's situation, but I'm worried about what you need to continue recovery too. I don't think its unreasonable for her to tell you how she feels about him now. I sense you are looking for many hidden things in her answer.

Telling you he is a scumbag and a horrible person means:

I recognize he is a thief and serial cheater.
All the things he said to me that made me feel special
were things said to get him sexual satisfaction.
I was wrong in confiding my dissatisfaction with my husband and marriage to such a person.
I was wrong to over look all these things and allow a relationship to flourish that put my husband and children at risk.

I see my mistakes and have learned from them. I understand my weakness-especially my low self esteem- that allowed me to get my ego stroked from such a disgusting person. I am dissapointed in myself that I did not value myself and our marriage enough to discuss any issues I had with you my husband and life partner. I am working hard on these personal issues in the hopes one day you will have full belief in me again. I see all the errors of my past and I will not re-live them. You will be the only man who fulfills these needs in me for the rest of my life.

I think you are looking for those hidden meanings so that you can have your deepest fears addressed. She cannot do this to you again, and if she can't even see these things, how can she prevent them?

Bob-

Just wanted to say "Hi". I am sorry that you are having a rough time....but I believe those same questions go through all our heads. I would settle for him simply telling me he's sorry. But he's not at that point by a long shot.

It's so damn hard to be loving and caring when you're getting so much less than you deserve in return. I know you can do it....I know I can do it too.....we just gotta keep posting, and gotta keep telling ourselves that we're on the right track.

I relate to your pain, I understand what you're feeling. It's not that you're ungrateful, or expect endless apologies, neither do I, but I do long for the day when I can just be comfortable in my marriage again. Today is not that day, but I'm hoping it will be soon for you and I both Bob.

Be strong Bob, you bring me a lot of hope, not just with your words of encouragment, but also with your struggles....I hope that doesn't sound mean...it's just when someone I know is doing everything right has the same struggles and questions I do, it makes me feel like I'm not totally screwed in the head <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-Caren

BP,

Following this thread because I am in the very same place you are. Even posted something very similar over on recovery not that long ago. SMIH helped me so much during my Plan B over a year ago with such great advice and once again more great advice was given here on this thread.

Keep plugging away at it and I shall too learn from you.

HINY

Starting again

Hello ! Been a while !

You are right that I'd LOVE to hear the things from Squid that you cite but in reality I don't think she feels that way YET.

I think she needs MC, and the only way she will do that is if I start a campaign to get her to go.

I've done that only once or twice in our lives, and it svery unpleasant. Squid HATES being asked to do what she doesn;t want to repeatedly.

And it will mean unpleasantness in our lives for as long as it takes for her to agree to MC.

Thats why I won;t press it right now while her Moms ill. Her life is crap enough right now.

And I don't think Squid will believe the real view of events until she does some MC or study. She's about low enough on fog to start study now, but with her Mom...I mean if it were YOU in a bad time ( God willing that its not) would you want to read stuff that reminds of you the stupidest, evillest thing you ever did in the name of false 'love' ?

Its hard. the more I think and pray about this the more it seems clear that I should wait till the sit with her mm is 'resolved' then push hard for MC. I think all goodness will come from good MC.

Thanks for yourr thoughts though. I agree with 'em.

Caren & HINY

Thanks for your posts !

Our recovery is really going very well. When I look at where we are NOW compared to even three months ago we're recovering well.

But my issue is that the last part of recovery to be addressed is MY wound. Its been bound up and seeping or almost a year now.

I have a half-cocked theory ( based on my own experience and many other recoveries I'v watched here) that recovery has three strands :
Practical - day to day life & love
Personal - learning personal lessons from affair
Remedial - Healing from affair

We're doing fantastically well in our practical recovery, I'm doing better than Squid in our personal recovery and we haven' really steped much along the line of our remedial recovery.

But its all good.

An occasionall rant is good though.

Squid said yeterday " thank you for loving me. I don't deserve you'.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good morning Bob! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Here are two poems from my “Encouraging” thread I specifically want to share with you this morning. Maybe you have already read it a long time ago, but I thought it would give you some inspiration and encouragement again:

SOMETIMES...

We must be hurt in order to grow,
We must fail in order to know,
We must lose in order to gain.

Some lessons are learned best only through pain.

SOMETIMES…

Our vision clears only after our eyes are washed with tears.
We have to be broken, so we can be tender,
We are sick so we can rest and think better on things more important than work or fun,
We are taken for trip near death, so we can assess how we’ve run.

SOMETIMES…

We have to suffer lack, so we can know God’s provision,
We have to feel another’s pain, so we can have a sense of mission.

So take heart, my friend, if you don’t understand today,
Instead of grumbling, ask God what He means to say,
In order to learn you must endure, and learn to see the bigger picture.

In order to grow, you must stand and look beyond the hurt,
Trust in God’s loving hand that takes what is Good, and gives what is Best,

And on this blessed thought, rest your anxious heart with all the questions,

God’s hand only gives what his loving heart dictates.

Sometimes the Lord calms the storm,
Sometimes He lets the storm rage… and calms His child.
Better go through the storm with Him,
Than smooth waters without Him.

GOD'S BOXES

I have in my hands two boxes,
Which God gave me to hold?
He said, "Put all your sorrows in the black box,
And all your joys in the gold."
I heeded His words, and in the two boxes,
Both my joys and sorrows I stored,
But though the gold became heavier each day,
The black was as light as before.
With curiosity, I opened the black,
I wanted to find out why,
And I saw, in the base of the box, a hole,
Which my sorrows had fallen out by.

I showed the hole to God, and mused,
"I wonder where my sorrows could be!"
He smiled a gentle smile and said,
"My child, they're all here with me."

I asked God, why He gave me the boxes,
Why the gold and the black with the hole?
"My child, the gold is for you to count your blessings,
The black is for you to let go."

Blessings and have a great day,
Suzet

Hi, Bob.

I have to take issue with a couple of things.

First off, having an illness in the family, or a family member who's life is close to over is a serious issue, but it does NOT keep you from living your lives.

Your wife has recently attended 4 weekend karate functions, an action that you admittedly find very unsettling for a number of obvious reasons. Yet her attendance was unaffected by her mothers condition.

This is not a complex situation. I will explain shortly.

Quote:
==================================
I disagree with you that my situation hasn't changed. Life is OK. Had Squid not had an affair our marriage would be wonderful now.

But theres a lot of work to do.

Squid is absolutely the opposite of teh sort of analytical person who would investigate herself and teh lessons to lern from her affair. She is almost the anti-Pepperband.

She won't read up on affairs, hates self-help and counselling, everything. She is a classic stuffer. And has spent forty one years practicing that. I have no idea how to help trigger her into self analysis.
==================================

The problem is the same, and while your situation may appear better, the underlying problem (the main issue as I see it) hasn't changed much.

My concern now and in the past has been Squid's ongoing sense of entitlement. It recently showed it's head again with the karate involvement. How about the driving instruction?

What you are really looking for in your wife is not hatred of the other man, it is a sense that she values you and her family in the correct proportions. While she has made some movement in that direction, she is not there.

This is why I want you to talk openly and honestly with your wife. She needs to her from you that she is screwing up. Her entitlement likely prevents her from even realizing just how serious an issue it really is. She needs to hear it from you. That is your part of the responsibility.

The very need in your wife that continues to draw her back toward karate, is the reason that you must NOT delay in addressing this part of your relationship. That part of her is not dead, and will grow back into unruly portions unless you stop it. It is time for you to set a boundary.

You're marriage is at issue as long as there is a weakness in its foundation. There is a big crack in it, and someone has stuck a piece of old dynamite in it, and it is already weeping nitroglycerin. Unstable is the word.

I agree that you and Squid have made progress, but there is still a nasty bit of cleanup that has to be done before the elephant can be considered; removed from the situation.

In the quote above, you say that Squid won't read about or try to understand affairs. That is because she still believes that her affair was somehow different, or even better than most others. She doesn't know just how very common the whole thing really was. Even if she suspects, she doesn't want to face the truth.

On the other hand, her unwillingness to face the truth is causing you problems. The karate situation is just a precursor to events yet to come. Both her entitlement issues and your conflict avoidance issues predate the affair.

I can tell you how you deal with it. You talk to your wife about it. You tell her the truth. If it is a deal breaker, then tell her and give her the chance to fix it.

Look at it this way. Most betrayed spouses grumble when the wayward spouse goes outside the marriage rather than working within the marriage to solve the problems that are plaguing it. Here is your chance you practice what you preach by setting an example for your wife. You work on your marriage by facing the issues, no matter how much crying or weeks worth of upset she punishes you with. Wait until she stops crying and start again. Repeat until there is an understanding. That is how you do it.

I will tell you something that I have learned about marriage. Working out a relationship is an ongoing effort. The process can be very ugly at times, but when all the hard effort and work bears fruit, it can be just as beautiful. Regardless, there is a lot of grahdoo to be mucked before you see much beauty.

God bless,
Gimble

This is why I want you to talk openly and honestly with your wife. She needs to her from you that she is screwing up. Her entitlement likely prevents her from even realizing just how serious an issue it really is. She needs to hear it from you. That is your part of the responsibility.

The very need in your wife that continues to draw her back toward karate, is the reason that you must NOT delay in addressing this part of your relationship. That part of her is not dead, and will grow back into unruly portions unless you stop it. It is time for you to set a boundary.

Gimble.

I talked with her AGAIN on Sunday about her seeming addiction to her sport. I told her how it triggers me, how it hurts me when she uses the words OM put in her mouth and the moves he taught her as he was seducing her. And reminded her again that her sport has left me a weekend widow for many years now and that she had agreed to stop this.

She said sorry, but there was no chief referee without her for this one off tournament and the previous weeks were actually a first aid course that will help her in her driving school work etc etc.

I said that she always had excuses to justify things that hurt me when she knows how I feel.

She apologised profusely and said she wouldn't do any more sport stuff without POJAing it.

So its fixed ?

No.... I bet her chief instructor will beg her to help out again soon and she will be literally seduced by the adulation and respect she gets from her sport to officiate ANOTHER weekend tournament soon.

Except I told Squid that I will not accept this any more.
" Squid, you profess to love me and in almost every other part of our lives you live this out,but its not my fault you chose an affair with someone in your beloved sport. Its disrespectful to me to continue to trigger me in this way.

Do I not deserve more consideration for my investment in you these months?".

"yes, I'm sorry....but it feels like you're punishing me by not letting me do what I love".

etc etc.

Gimble I AM progressing these issues regularly but gently. A you see this was not the 'stand and fight' dialog you infer is needed. But it is not true to say I am not progressing the issues.

I truly believe Squid has a mid life crisis of epic proportions and has needs way beyond what I can do for her in resolving it.

She doesn't value her contribution to our lives as we do. She values the respect of sports people over the love and respect of her family.

Squid needs IC or at least MC to help her reprioritise her life.

Her head is a mess that the affair was just one manifestation of. But how can I MAKE her get the help she needs ?

I'm not going to have that 'stand and fight' while her Moms so ill. We will have to respectfully disagree over what is proper behaviour during such a time. Squids attending her sport stuff was a diversion and a relief from the sadness of her life right now. Its not valid to compare such diversions with having a toe to toe about potentially ending our marriage at this time IMO.

I love her very much, and I am progressing these issues as best as I can.

Regarding the boundary you suggest, thsi goes back to a discussion we had in mail a while bak. What do I do ?

Another tournament and I end the marriage ?

I've tried withdrawing myself and teh kids from these events - that just helps her with babysitting.

I've tried being a part of these events - heloing set up and run them - Squid LOVES that and is actively delighted with my own and the kids attendence on tourney days but its too hurtful , time consuming and boring for me to perpetuate.

She doesn;t want a karate life AWAY from us, she woudl LOVE US to be a part of it, but it hurts me too much to do this. besides I feel it fuels her entitlement.

Hard huh ?

Thanks mate {{{gimble}}}

I wish you could wave a wand for me...this is getting tough.

Hi, Bob.

Quote:
================================
Her head is a mess that the affair was just one manifestation of. But how can I MAKE her get the help she needs ?
================================

You can't make her. All you can do is make the choice not to, more painful that the proper choice. The problem with not forcing the issue, is that it will never go away, and it may yet, cost you your marriage if left to re-fester.

Quote:
================================
I'm not going to have that 'stand and fight' while hr Moms so ill. We will have to respectfully disagree over what is proper behaviour during such a time. Squids attending her sport stuff was a diversion and a relief from the sadness of her life right now. Its not valid to compare such diversions with having a toe to toe about potentially ending our marriage at this time IMO.
================================

You have to do what you think is right in your situation. I will continue to believe that Squid is using her Mom's illness as a crutch to facilitate her own choices. I hope that you know I intend no offense in that statement.

Quote:
================================
I love her very much, and I am progressing these issues as best as I can.
================================

Of that, I have no doubt.

God, please bless my friend Bob and his family.

All the best,
Gimble

Ooops, sorry I missed this part.

Quote:
============================
Regarding the boundary you suggest, thsi goes back to a discussion we had in mail a while bak. What do I do ?

Another tournament and I end the marriage ?============================

Yep, it is the same old conversation :-)

Do you end the marriage? Nope. She might though. What you have to see is that it is HER CHOICE. She is making the choice that is harming the relationship. All you can do is tell her that what she is doing will have consequences.

Here is a crude but true example. I actually knew these people.

The husband would take his paycheck every Friday, cash it and spend Friday night drinking and gambling all the money away. Then he would go home, feeling all randy, and basically rape and beat up his wife.

One day she decided to set a boundary. True to form, he did what he always did on Fridays. Only this time, when he returned home, he was met at the door by his wife, all dolled up in a nightie and looking very sexy. She coaxed him into the bedroom and into the bed. Then she rolled him up in the sheet and proceeded to beat him rather badly with a baseball bat.

About 6 weeks later when he returned to work, he was a changed man. For the 6 years after that incident that I knew him, he never drank or gambled again.

You can't beat up anyone of course, but you can certainly be creative with your consequences.

God bless,
Gimble

I will continue to believe that Squid is using her Mom's illness as a crutch to facilitate her own choices. I hope that you know I intend no offense in that statement.

I am SOOO offended ! LOL ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I suspect the few folks who HAVE endured the full force of Gimble's deliberate offence still remember it with a wince <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

This , friend, gets to the heart of my 'chicken or egg' thoughts on this situation.

Dobson and Willard Harley agree that a 'life trauma' like the illness or death of a love done, coupled with an MLC can trigger predisposed folks to affairs.

But it sinteresting what you write - that maybe Squids affair and entoitled behaviour may well havebeen alway sthere and she used/is using her MLC and Nan's illness to justify it in her head.

Theres a long discussion over a bottle of Bunnahabhain ( I still owe you that) in there alone, but in truth it doesn't matter whether chicken or egg came first.

Nans illness, Squids issues over hitting middle age and her affair are inexorably linked.

I am not convinced that Squid is actively exploiting the sit with nan to behave in any way that makes her feel good. In truth the only two streaks of selfishness that remain are Karate and unwillingness to seek counselling or stufy affairs.

OK they're biggies but this after a near lifetime of utter self-absorption is significant progress.

As a sideline - that driving school thing. Check this - she has taken students for 'driving practice' rather than full tuition at twenty dollar an hour insted of the normal forty for tuition.

She's made $220 so far and has paid it into the account I paid her driving school tuition fees with. She is paying me back for my investment with real pride, not as some kind of head game.

You know better than most how Squid has been you SEE what huge progress she is making ?

I read this stuf fback Gimble and in truth....teh time IS right to press on with this. She is doing SO WELL but she actually DESERVES to have the info from me that she needs to complete her personal recovery.

Maybe the time is right now while her nans still with us as its a chance to deliberately break a link in the chain of entitlement rather than having it broken by Nans inevitable passing.

When i read that partial transcript of our talk on Sunday Squid was honest and reasonable. She didn't cry or CA or shout. She offered me the reasons shy she felt it ws OK to do these things and acknowledged she NOW understood the wider hurt it caused me.

This was a very reasonable response from her.

Need to think and pray.

The baseball bat story was wonderful. I need to think of a suitably ironic and clear consequence.

Thanks mate.

{{{{G}}}}

Wow! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bob,
Of course I would not WANT to be reminded of the worst thing I did at a time when my life was crap! But if its needed for recovery it can't be put off. I believe now that issues in the marriage can't ever be put off. Our failure to discuss things honestly got all of us on this bloody board to begin with. You have the tools (poja/radical honesty) to have a productive conversation that moves towards a resolution. I agree w/ Gimble-she is using her moms health to facilitate her own choices.
I can speak w/ experience on this one. My husband's PA started two months after his mothers unexpected death. When I questioned him about why he was acting differently, he said it was estate responsibilites and grief. And he didn't want to discuss it. So I let it go. Now I know that was only part of it. The bigger part was that he was being pressured for SF by our neighbor and he was sick inside knowing he was about to make the wrong decision. He said he remembers being awake all night thinking of how to start the conversation telling me the truth, but could not bring himself to do it. I know even if he had, I would not have responded correctly and might have made things worse by being self-rightoeus ("I told you she was after you- I knew it!")-I would have told him to stay away from her and of course I would have confronted her. Probably would have forced it even more underground, and made him more needful of her-he would have been more careful to hide it. There is no freaking way I would have recognized I was not filling his needs. It would have been all his problem. I would not have appreciated his honesty. He would not have recognized his friendship w/ her as an emotional affair. I could not have handled the truth back then in a way that made my marriage stronger. And before this all happened there is no way I woould have considered MC. I was exactly like Squid in that respect, probably for exactly the same reasons.
Our marriage has changed so much since we attended the MB seminar. I feel like a fanatic sometimes, I want to convert everyone.I want to convert Squid. She doesn't know what she is missing! You were absolutely right-she deserves to know how you feel. I want her to look back at the old Squid and be proud of how far she has come. And I want her old man happy! Keep working on her. Good Luck!

Did you ignore my post entirely, should I feel shunned or ignored or dissed...do not mess with a goddess...

Or perhaps you were hoping I'd go away...hahahahaha (evil laugh) Never!

In my never ending quest to convince you that speaking up with your W is GOOD for your M, and not a BAD thing...

Your thoughts and feelings about where you are in recovery is ALL ABOUT YOU and you need to explain this to your W. YOu need to check in (not out) with her about your anxieties. Not talking with her now is tantamount to lyiing and being dishonest.

Radical honesty, and that means giving her all the information about you and where you are in recovery so she can make adequate decisions.

Your fear that discussions with her are going to end in conflict are what's keeping you from being intimate with your W...THIS IS YOUR CHANCE...this is your chance to do it differently, to learn a new way...to avoid conflict by FACING a fear rather than hiding from it. (That last statement was pretty profound...wow, did I say that?)

Think about how much effort and conflict you have expended in NOT talking with your W?