Is there some magic recipe to get the fog to lift for a WS?

I'm almost done with "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Glass, and I've realized that everything after about page 50 is predicated on communicating with each other. That is something that went downhill late last year, and was completely cut off after DDay.

After giving it a lot of thought over the past few days, I realize that I miss my wife. I REALLY REALLY miss her. I want to rewind to last October/November when we had fun conversations, watched TV together on the couch, hungout at the kids' games, and had increased PA.

This new alien wifey, while still as beautiful as the old wife, isn't as fun to be around and certainly doesn't seem to want to be around me.

I'm well along the path of A and would love to talk with her about it - she's my best friend. I have to admit that taking care of myself was something that had been lacking for a while. It's helped my attitude with the kids, refocused my work, and shown me I am responsible for my own happiness and actions.

My guess is I'll hear patience as the answer, but I'd like to hear other opinions.

<small>[ March 01, 2005, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Extropy ]</small>

Fog only lifts after NC. Sometimes it lifts temporarily but always comes back until NC established.

That's not good. She sees little problem with contact as they are "just friends". I now know where a proper line in establishing friends, but that doesn't fit in her view.

So to establish NC I need to have patience with Plan A and pray?

"How to get the fog to lift?"

If you can figure this out, you'll make the rest of us look like idiots, make a lot of money, and also put an end to this forum.

Until then, the best you can do is Plan A and exposure, and Plan B when the opportunity arises.

Hmmm...

Maybe we could start some sort of cult deprogramming program for WS's? LOL

Or since adultery is like an addiction, maybe a Betty Ford type program?

Have you tried exposure? That usually spoils the magic of the affair for most adulterers.

This is what I tried:
(Might have worked better if I had been tougher with enforcing and/or my WH wasn't so delusionally convinced he could still manage to be sneaky enough to continue cake-eating)

I told my WH that since I am not the sort of person to have a relationship with somebody behind anyone's back, that I would not have any more contact with him as long as he had anything to do with the OW. I gave this as a major reason for my Plan B no contact. Even though WH and I were still married and obviously WH and OW didn't mind carrying on with each other behind MY back, I said it was my standard that I wanted to live up to for myself. I rejected all fog-induced explanations that he should be allowed to be friends with both me and the OW... I told him I choose my own friends.
OW did not want my WH to have any contact with me either (and even wanted to restrict/control any contact he had with his daughters!) So her jealousy and controlling was of some help in ending his cake-eating.

I guess patience is really all we can offer (besides exposure and eventually stopping contact with the WS).

Be consistent with your plan to increase your odds of success.

Heehee.. Maybe some voodoo priestess can come up with something for me.

Regarding exposure, I haven't explicitly told many people. She now runs in a new social group, and this guy fits in with them. I could expose to other friends/family/superiors at her part time job, but what relevance is that? Especially if they are "JF" and I'm "overreacting".

And these new friends are the ones who I believe helped contribute and encourage this behavior, which at the time was very attractive due to my not meeting her ENs well.

I'm not fully able to make sense of what is going on, and she doesn't want to talk about it. I'm sure she has loads that she wants to tell me, but doesn't want to open the flood gates.

I was thinking that one of those industrial fans would do the job.....but it's sooooo thick sometimes, that even that won't work.

I did consider using an air hose in my H's ear at one point.....don't think that will work either. Plus....I'd like for him to hear me when I yell at him.

I propose that someone start up a clinic.

The Alien Abduction, Moose Brain Worm Clinic.

WAT can be the President.

I wonder if anyone has ever tried an intervention type of exposure?
You know - have all the anti-adultery friends, relatives, coworkers present to confront the adulterers?
That's what used when it's a substance abuse addiction, right?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She sees little problem with contact as they are "just friends". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right, they all say that. Eventually she may start to realize that it is addiction and NC is the cure.

"just friends" my eye!

We all have friends we lose contact with over the years, don't see anymore because we're too busy, etc.

If they were really just friends than giving up contact with them wouldn't be such a big deal.

Also, IMO if you want to be able to have friendships you have a duty to ensure they never go to far, never come between you and your spouse. If you fail to take such precautions then you have chosen to risk losing not just your marriage but also the friendship.

Don't ever let a wayward spouse make you feel guilty for making them give up their 'friend' LOL
The adulterers destroyed the chance for an innocent, proper friendship - not the betrayed spouse!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Extropy:
<strong>Regarding exposure, I haven't explicitly told many people. She now runs in a new social group, and this guy fits in with them. I could expose to other friends/family/superiors at her part time job, but what relevance is that?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Family is very relevant.

Is OM married?

meremortal - just a couple months ago somebody proposed an "intervention" exposure. I mistakenly poo poo'd it as being a bit too melodrammatic until Pepperband pointed out that this is a tried and true strategy in the 12 Step Program. I never saw any further mention of it, though.

WAT

Someone in another thread say she may be experiencing an early mid-life crisis, and her new life of going to bars is part of that. Considering how I've been struggling with that internally over the past year or so, I can relate to wanting to find my own way.

I get the impression that this new group of friends fills her ENs, providing levity and companionship. It also helps that they are in their early 20s while she is in her late 20s.

I blame myself partly for this situation - I was reluctant to pay for sitting and wanted her to have her own life. Little did I know how much this would fog things up. After a healthy dose of self-education, I see how important together time is. 15 hours a week is a lot, and right now we get around 2.


I don't know much about the OM, and per other discussions on here haven't contacted him. Judging from the people I have told and discussed things with, none of them can believe the situation we are in. We are the stereotypical happy couple that others look to for inspiration.

Intervention? I don't know enough about it to say one way or the other.

And what about her family? No exposure yet?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Extropy:
<strong>I don't know much about the OM, and per other discussions on here haven't contacted him.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you don't know if he's married?

WAT

This particular fellow is not married, and is more of an EA with some PA.

She has regular conversations with him, and still sees him as a great guy and great friend. I couldn't put my reservations into words before, but the book "Not Just Friends" describes it well...

Dr. Glass says the line is drawn when you start discussing anything of a personal nature with someone of the opposite sex. Once you cross that line you unknowingly begin to build a bond with that person that grows over days/months/years. Of course the WW doesn't quite see it that way. He's a good listner who doesn't offer advice and doesn't judge. She admits she is drawn to him.

Obviously I know at least one EN he is filling and I am not.

My wife says the same things about her 'friend'. I spoke with OM's wife, some call it exposure, I still call it a mistake. My life has been turned into a living hell. SHe has feelings of hate towards me. Its been 2 months since I spoke with OM's wife and its still very tense at my house, but easing oh-so-slightly. We can't converse and sit in the same room speachless watching TV sometimes. I can't take much of that and leave the room after 10-15 minutes of that.

What can I do to speed the fog out of here?

Hi Mark in NY,

"I spoke with OM's wife, some call it exposure, I still call it a mistake. My life has been turned into a living hell."

No doubt your wife is trying to bully you into not doing the rest of the exposure (to friends, family, coworkers if the OM works with her, the other parents at the school functions and children's birthday parties your WW and OM meet each other at)

She is angry because exposure has the potential of spoiling their fun. Her anger is an indication that exposure was the right thing for you to do. Unless you plan on just allowing your wife to cake-eat forever then you must take whatever measures you can to end the affair sooner rather than later. Right now she's probably thinking you will just leave her and the OM alone, let them continue to exploit the childrens' activities to continue meeting each other regardless of how you feel! She is confident that her tantrum over the first step of exposure has convinced you to keep her and the OM's nasty little secret so they can continue to carry on right under your nose, the OM's wife's nose, in front of the CHILDREN, and right in front of the unsuspecting teachers & other parents! She WANTS you to feel as if exposure was a mistake that you won't dare try any more of.

She and the OM claim they are "just friends" right? But you and the OM's wife aren't happy with their inappropriate "friendship" (emotional affair), right? Your WW and OM think your fears are unwarranted and intrusive, right? They think they have a RIGHT to be friends and that you are the one who is behaving inappropriately, right? So how about doing an innocent survey of family and friends, folks at the school, counselors, etc. to see if others think you and the OM's wife are just being silly?
That way you could at least appear to be trying to settle the issue, get input from third parties, rather than "tattling".

Or you could go to family & friends for advice on how to deal with your "inappropriate" fears and "jealousy" over her innocent friendship with OM. You could ask for advice on trying to understand why she wants this friendship to be kept a secret, why she is so angry about his wife knowing, why she feels she has a right to expect you to keep this secret or else! If she has a right to have a close friendship with this OM/MM, then why can't YOU discuss this with whomever you choose to? Maybe you could explain exposure to her in those terms? That YOU needed a "friend" to talk to too about this thing that is really bothering you.

Now, I'm not suggesting that you start an inappropriate, secret, "friendship" with an OW... Your seeking of support, unbiased feedback, understanding... would not be done behind anyone's back or in private (do it in a small group setting, maybe even in front of her!)

Think about it:

If what they are doing really were so innocent, then why the heck are they so upset about others knowing about it?!?!?!?!? Your wife's anger over exposure reveals that she AGREES with you that what she and the OM are doing IS sleazy and something to be ashamed of! Just what IS so wrong about anybody knowing she has an innocent friendship with another male? Why is it wrong for HIS WIFE to know he has an innocent friendship with another female?

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

Well it looks like exposure had the effect of ending their thing. On 1/27 she was pissed beyond believe (learn OMW layed down the law). Her words were something like this "congratualtions, I can't speak to my friend anymore, that should of been my choice, but you made it for me - happy now?", followed words of hate, etc. In all honesty I don't think she has yet accepted he is out of her life. SHe has not admitted any wrong doing. Quite possibly there was nothing physical and therefore she can honestly say 'no affair' (popular believe).

Last Saturday she griped about him having to leave another door of the church.

As for further exposure I think it will just turn whats left of my marriage into scorched earth. Imagine if rumors started circulating. Imagine if the kids at school caught wind of it and started teasing our children.

OM's wife is very concerned about rumors as well. Seems his last 'friendship' started rumors big time some 5-6 years ago.

This fog she's in is killing me. I'm trying hard to accept it as the way of the future. I hope I can live with it. My plan is to spend as little time as possible with her right now.

Anyone who's WS or was a WS (prefer WW) want to share fog stories and progress. I want to know what lies ahead. Is the hatred a concious atttempt to shut me up about more exposure? WHy do I feel like the bad guy?

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: MarkNY ]</small>

Mark,
I told the OM of my wife's EA with him. That got real ugly and she will not talk to me period.

Keith

Mark,

Besides the exposure are there other things that she is angry about?

legato,

back to my thread - want to keep this one foggy