Mark,
My wife's fog is very strange. She falls for men and they normally don't know. This one is ending our marraige (even though I am hoping she comes out of it again). I had not choice to call the OM and tell him. He did not believe me and then I told him of the other times and he somewhat believed me. I don't think he is interested in her as he dates lots of women.

When my WW found out, she threatnend me with a RO (just for talking to the OM).

I know what you are going through. It is awful.

I entertained the fact this guy didnt know how my wife felt about him. But he seemed all too accomidating to call when I wasn't around. He has a degree of blame at least.

He seems to be constantlt sniffing around the mothers at school too. Don't like him.

He is a predator Mark. It is a game for him to see how many women he can get. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Not all of us men are like that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

If you ever want to chat through MSN Messenger, my address is bhinwi@hotmail.com.

MarkNY - didn't you read meremortal's excellent post to you? Go back and read it again. All was explained perfectly.

You are doing EXACTLY what your WW and her OM want you to do. WW is angry and hateful because that keeps MarkNY from interfering with her affair. She knows he will back down from her anger every time. If she wants to spend time with OM, all she has to do is be nasty to MarkNY and he will step aside and wait quietly while she goes out on her date.

Are you okay with that?

You can either stand up and fight for your marriage, or you can keep backing down whenever WW throws a tantrum so she can see her boyfriend.

Fog doesn't lift until there is NC -- but it ALSO does not lift as long as the WS has zero respect for the BS. How much respect do you think your wife has for you, when she knows all she has to do is behave like a spoiled teenager and you will back right down and do nothing?
Mulan

Mulan,

Boy ain't that the truth. Amen!

Mulan,

That hits me to my core. I think I've been far too passive in my relationship. Youre right if she yells at me and threatens to leave I typically back off. I'm getting better, but I'm not about to get on my soap box and give her a lecture on inappropriate behaviour (although I would love to). It will fall on deaf ears and be met with more resentment. Besides wouldn't a lecture be a LB?

Funny you should mention teenage behavior. My IC says ours is a parent -child like relationship. SHe blurts out I Hate You (dad), you can't tell me who I can be friends with (dad), OM is grounded my OMW.

Now she mentions leaving and I say 'if thats what you want to do, but I don't agree with that'. Somedays it starts wearing on me and I have to control myself from say 'there's the freakin door'. I'm not ready for her to take me up on that. She has now quit a very well paying job (only had in 6 mos anyway) and is working on a very part time basis (back to normal life). She is no longer in a good financial spot to leave.

There's virtually NC right now. Sightings in church are about it. She still throughs teenage tantums and tries hurting me at every turn. I know I have to be more assertive, but how not to come across as LBing?

How can I gain some respect back without coming across as 'dad'? When does the fog burn off?

***I'm not about to get on my soap box and give her a lecture on inappropriate behaviour (although I would love to). It will fall on deaf ears and be met with more resentment. Besides wouldn't a lecture be a LB?***

Yes, it would. You are right -- a lecture is not what is needed. What IS needed is a clear presentation of YOUR boundaries -- not hers, yours -- that she can see and understand.

***Now she mentions leaving and I say 'if thats what you want to do, but I don't agree with that'. Somedays it starts wearing on me and I have to control myself from say 'there's the freakin door'.***

In this case, with the way she is behaving, that is exactly what you SHOULD say.

Right now everything is YOUR fault because you won't "let her" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> do what she wants to do. Watch what happens when she gets what she thinks she wants!

All you have to say is "Dear, I want you to be happy. I am not your father and I am not your jailer. If you are not happy here and want to move out to be with your OM, then that is what you should do. Frankly, I do not want to be with someone who does not want to be with me. It's making my life miserable, too."

Then go to the front door, open it, and leave the room.

She will probably get nasty and leave for a date with OM, just to "show you." Let her go. Let her know that she can do whatever she wants EXCEPT treat you badly and throw an affair in your face. You will prevent that not by forcing her to stop -- you can't -- but by removing yourself from her presence when she treats you badly and simply not being available for this sort of treatment any more.

I think you need Plan B here before you lose all traces of love for her permanently.

***She has now quit a very well paying job (only had in 6 mos anyway) and is working on a very part time basis (back to normal life). She is no longer in a good financial spot to leave.***

And this is your problem because -- ?

SHE is the one who chose to lie and cheat and treat you like crap. Until she gets to enjoy 100% of the consequences of her own actions, she will have no reason to change.

Don't let her scare you. She's counting on it.
Mulan

Mulan,

Thanks for the advice, but I have some questions:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">***Now she mentions leaving and I say 'if thats what you want to do, but I don't agree with that'. Somedays it starts wearing on me and I have to control myself from say 'there's the freakin door'.***

In this case, with the way she is behaving, that is exactly what you SHOULD say.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What should I say - there's the door or the if thats what you want I dont agree. I honest;y don't want her walking out the door, so I don't want to make a threat I am not prepared to carry out.

As this point was most likely an EA OM is not waiting for her to join him. EIther way he seems to be behaving himself lately. I even question if the EA was kind of one-sided. My wife was suffering from depression (she never told me that before EA started). Says she felt lonely.

As for her loss of income that will impact us in the sense that we can not afford to support 2 households. Thats one way she (and me) are trapped. She has no place to go. I fear showing her the door will bring on the lawyers and I'll be the one shown the door.

She wants to take the kids with her (according to her). They mean the world to her (and me). Her yanking them out would be a very hard thing since we haven't told them the extent of our issue.

So right now we're living together but very low conversation, lots of tension, and next to no signs of effection (on her part).

***What should I say - there's the door or the if thats what you want I dont agree. I honest;y don't want her walking out the door, so I don't want to make a threat I am not prepared to carry out.***

You are misunderstanding. This is in no way a "threat." It is simply a recognition that you cannot and will not control HER behavior. You can only control you own.

Read this again (I added a small edit for you.)

"Dear, I do not want you to leave. I want us to have a good marriage. But I am not your father and I am not your jailer. If you are not happy here and want to move out to be with your OM, then that is what you should do. Frankly, I do not want to be with someone who does not want to be with me. It's making my life miserable, too."

She is just like the spoiled child who *thinks* they want to eat nothing but cake and ice cream for supper. Sometimes the best way to get the point across that this is not healthy is to let them try it. They have to find out for themselves that it's a sickening way to live. Until they do, they will blame you for being "mean" and not letting them do what they want.

Your WW is doing the same thing. As long as you try to prevent her from leaving, she can and will blame you for all of the problems in the marriage. You have got to put the responsibility for this where it belongs -- on HER.

***As this point was most likely an EA OM is not waiting for her to join him. EIther way he seems to be behaving himself lately. I even question if the EA was kind of one-sided. My wife was suffering from depression (she never told me that before EA started). Says she felt lonely.***

Then what are you worried about? And even if she was leaving for a full-blown PA, the point is, you CANNOT "make" her stay. Kidnapping is illegal in most countries. You can certainly tell her that you want her to stay, as I wrote out above, but you seem to think you are in control of whether she leaves or not. You aren't. You are only getting a false sense of security while she cake-eats and uses you.

By trying to protect her from the consequences of her own behavior, you are acting like a (poor) father instead of like a loving husband. And the vicious circle goes round and round . . .

***As for her loss of income that will impact us in the sense that we can not afford to support 2 households. Thats one way she (and me) are trapped. She has no place to go. I fear showing her the door will bring on the lawyers and I'll be the one shown the door.***

***She wants to take the kids with her (according to her). They mean the world to her (and me). Her yanking them out would be a very hard thing since we haven't told them the extent of our issue.***

These are legal questions. You need legal help with them. Get an attorney -- many will consult with you for free -- and do something NOW to protect yourself and your children. If you do nothing, you will not have a leg to stand on if/when she does pull a stunt like trying to leave with the children. The courts will want to know why you simply lived with this wretched situation and did nothing to protect your family.

***So right now we're living together but very low conversation, lots of tension, and next to no signs of effection (on her part).***

Yes, you walk on eggshells and hold your breath and listen to your heart pound, scared to death of what she might do next. She is holding you hostage and you are letting her do it.

You seem to be confusing "throwing her out" with "telling her she's free to leave." They are NOT the same thing. You aren't telling her you want her to get out. You are calling her bluff by telling her that if she truly wants to leave, that's what she should do. You can also tell her that you don't want her to leave, but you understand that she is an adult and you aren't about to tie her up and force her to stay.

Do you see the difference?

This wretched situation is going to last a long, long time unless somebody does something to break the cycle. She doesn't really want to leave. She wants to cake-eat at your expense. She will do this as long as you let her, and she will be hateful and bullying to you because that lets her cake-eat.

She behaves this way because it works for her. How long are you willing to let you and your children live like this?
Mulan