Hiya boss, glad to see you haven't retired completely and thanks for your advice. I'd really like to know why you think that plan A is unlikely to succeed at this point. From what I gather plan A is about dissipating the 'Fog'. I really believe that we can work through this if she can just stay away, completely away, from that sorry SOB. I am more determined every day that continued contact of any sort is not something I will tolerate. Assuming that I am able to determine whether or not my boundary is being respected are you saying that you are convinced that she will NOT be able to achieve NC?

The reason I'm asking is that plan B is really not much of an option in my case. Regardless of whomever moves out the simple economic fact is that we are not able to support two households. Separating means completely discarding the life we have built together. We would lose the apartment where we live with the kids now and probably have to split our possesions. I would not separate until I could take my oldest son with me and I would definately move out of state. I reread the stuff on plan B and if I'm reading it correctly it seems to me that it is an iffy solution at best for saving a wrecked marriage. Dr. Harley makes the point repeatedly that it may not work.

Really looking for your input on this one pal and I'd love to hear from bOb as well. Great posting about his apology, wasn't it? You two (as well as all the others) have helped me enormously in this terrible time. Your success story has kept me steadfast so far. I've never moved more cautiously or with greater deliberation in my entire life. I'd hate to take a misstep now.

Actually, campdog; I think you misread Harley's intent about Plan B (and he has revised his methodology somewhat since publishing the book). Plan A is about dissapating the fog by exposure---as well as providing an attractive alternative for the wayward spouse (by not lovebusting), and attempting to negotiate an end to the affair.

You are having a real impact in your plan A---it's very evident. And I do believe that you'll work through this if she stays away from the SOB. However---if she's not completely clear of the affair (which she isn't)---like an addict, she's liable to slip up and renew contact (perhaps many more times). Even if it isn't for sex, this contact will set her back. What I'm not convinced about is not that the affair will end (it most assuredly will); but whether your marriage can survive if she slips up 4-6 times with you making a heroic Plan A effort over the next 12 months. If you're super tough, realize this addiction for what it is, and can desensitize yourself to it---it might be possible. There are precious few around here who have been able to do this and have successfully recovered their marriages. I'm pretty tough, had a great coach (Steve Harley), and understood pretty much EXACTLY what was going on---and I could still only do Plan A for 6 months.

Plan B can be tough. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, especially if the WS continues to fence-sit. You wouldn't necessarily discard the life you have built together, but you would have drastic changes in it that would have some serious consequences. And consequences is what Plan B is about. It's about your wife facing the fact that she had an affair and is unwilling to work towards a "mutually enthusiastic" point in the marriage. It's allowing your wife to see just how desirable a mate the SOB would make (assuming that they rush together), in comparison to you. It's allowing your wife to feel the anguish of her children because her decisions (or lack thereof) have caused her to break up the family. And it insulates you from having to be heroic in the face of an affair---it preserves your love for her so that if and when she realizes that perhaps your marriage would be a viable option, when she comes back, you won't slam the door in her face. People who stay too long in Plan A burn out and they end up transitioning to divorce much too quickly.

Plan B is an option, and it may be your best one in a couple of months. And you need to be ready to implement it. Having said that---leaving my kids behind as I went to Plan B was by far the scariest, most horrible thing I've ever had to face in my life. It's not fun---it's a very serious and hard decision. But in my case (and the case of most), it's usually the right decision.

Hi CD

K, as usual, is on the money.

Plan A is about only one primary thing - negotiating and end to the affair.

its also required if plan B is to be successful. i.e. show WS the benefits of being with you, then if they will not effect NC you withdraw ALL such benefit sfrom them until such times as they choose to effect NC and respect any other boundaries you enforce.

I studied MB voraciously, but did not have the benefit of direct coaching from Steve as K did.

I did, however, have wonderful guidance from experience folks.

Its often said I did a good plan A, and well, it worked better than some, but it was SO HARD CD. It sliek having to bury your every instinct for ages. To be emotionally starved and abandoned without assurance of eventual success.

And I could not have plan A'ed for more than six months. As it is I plan A'ed for four months and it was OM GF who realy ended the affair. I exposed to her with proof and she terrified OM into NC by laying down BRUTAL boundaries immediately.

Without her, I am sure Squid would have continued in her entangled affair and I would have had to plan B.

So CD, I am outside my experience talking about plan B other than from an academic viewpoint. I don't advise outside my experience if I can help it.

Mortarman is a wise counsel on Plan B.

BTW, one year ago today, Squid stole our kids college money and took it to screw OM is a seedy motel. She offered him the money as a downpayment on a flat for them to set up a life together in.

Today,one year of MB later, we ate breakfast then made love in the sunshine at our holiday home, she pledging eternal love to me. She is transparently honest, ashamed, and wholly repentant. A great mom and wife.

It might be uninstinctive but MB WORKS, CD. K, myself and hundreds of others are testament to that.

All blessings mate

I'm glad you're still with me bOb. I read your post on your apology and wept. I think I know EXACTLY how that felt and I am so happy for you and your beloved. I wanted to add my congratulations to all the others but figured it would just get lost in the crowd. So let me do it here. Good for you bro, God has his hand on your shoulder. The part in your post about God's time struck a chord in me and gave me some badly needed strength. You and K are genuine heroes in my book and I am humbly grateful that you both take the time to reach out to me. I feel like I spend a lot of time begging God, my wife, my MC, anyone, for something on which to pin my hopes for saving my marriage. Yours and K's stories give me some of that hope. Thank you both.

It seems like I have been fighting this battle to save my relationship with my wife forever but it's actually only one month since I discovered this website. Before that I had searched the web for literature on infidelity and found it but found precious little in the way of guidance for coping. Prior to finding MB I was just walking wounded looking for a place to fall down. All I remember of that first month after d-day is that it was unrelenting anguish. I don't count those first 30 days as part of my plan A. There was some instinctive effort to support and soothe my spouse but there was also plenty of recrimination and throwing my pain in her face. Finding MB and plan A helped me to understand what I needed to do and to focus on the task at hand. So I would say I have only been plan A'ing for 30 days.

This would make 4 months in plan A the beginning of October and fits in with my determination to NOT spend the Holidays here if I am not convinced that my wife is sticking to NC. Last holiday season was marked by my joy with having a new baby to share it with and the idea that a second season will be marred by more lies is unbearable. I have NOT shared this agenda with my wife, I've only told her that I cannot keep up my loving efforts indefinately while knowing that she is still involved with that morally bankrupted SOB. For her part she says that she has not seen him and I sort of believe her, if only because I am watching her like a hawk. It's possible that she is lying about physical contact but I tend to doubt it. Phone contact is another story. I have told her that as far as my emotional reaction goes there is little difference between her talking to her partner in adultery on the phone and her being naked in bed with him.

For her part she said that she didn't see how talking on the phone was continuing the affair. I have told her that I, our MC and every website in the world says that complete NC is essential for recovery from an affair. I don't think she gets it yet but have hope that she will. As K said she is still in the Fog but she told me that she is sticking to NC because she wants her partner in adultery to move on and find the woman he deserves! (I hope he gets what he deserves as well, but not in the sense she meant it)

K said that he believes she will slip up regarding the affair and I expect that to happen as well. She has already made a serious blunder in lying about continued contact as it has destroyed any remaining trust I had in her. It's a big problem for me because I fear that as a result I may miss or disregard any honest efforts she makes at rebuilding our relationship. I can only remain vigilant against that happening and hope that I can see things for how they really are.

For my own part I really see plan A as a lifetime commitment, assuming that we remain together. Had I been doing a few years ago what I'm doing now I wouldn't be in the horrible situation I am in at present. I find that I LIKE finding ways of showing my wife how much I love her and that I treasure each smile or hug that these efforts bring. I have no problem plan A'ing forever but only if it has the desired effect. I don't just want to stop the affair, I want my wife to fall in love with me again (or maybe for the first time). I feel like that process has begun but only the coming months will reveal the truth. I fear and detest the thought of breaking up my home but I deserve more than what I have at present. I am worth more than betrayal and lies. I pray to God that my wife will see that as well.

As usual a long post. I have come to value this place as a sort of chronicle of my journey towards I know not what. I am filled with gratitude towards those of you who have reached out to me, a stranger. For all the rest of the multitide who have read my poor meanderings stay tuned for breaking news. I wonder where I'll be a year from now when I read this thread again?

CD

you who have reached out to me, a stranger

You aren't a stranger CD. We are all members of the world's best club that nobody wants to join <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I read your posts, but leave specific advice to K and similar as they have personal experience of your sit.

Take time to study the successes on these boards. It may take some history as many recover so fully from the gates of hell that they leave the boards to live a loving live.

I will dig out a 'success stories' thread that I can recall.

But we BS tend to focus on those folks who ar ein teh same [censored] as ourselves, as in recognition there is brotherhood.

What we should also do is take time to look at the picture on the box.

By God's grace, K, and myself are into well indicated recoveries.

Check out also the marital recovery stories of:

MelodyLane
Pepperband
Orchid
KYellow
KiwiJ
Nerlycrazy

and personal recovery miracles of

WAT
FNCJ ( Fine New CJ)
Tanelorn Pete

There are folks who divirced after work, but recovered their heart and stand tall and happy with their self respect intact.

All of these are my heroes and heroines. Search and read, CD.

I will find a list of others and their stories to humble and inspire you as they did me.

K's story is truly staggering.

Squid an' me we're doing GREAT CD ! We just went for a lovely Thai lunch in the sunshine. When the waitress tuned her back Squid flashed her boobs at me - made me spit wine all over my table ! One year ago she was banging OM and told me she wanted me to find someone else as she didn't love me.

This morning she told me " I love you because you're lovely".

Study CD, and stick with it.

All blessings.

Thanks for sticking with me bOb. It helps immensely to think of you and K when I'm at my lowest as I was yesterday. I have a mental image of you and your beloved sitting across from each other at a table outside in a cafe, looking at each other and just loving each other. It's a place I yearn so much to be in with my wife and it makes me smile and brings tears to my eyes at the same time. I'm turning into an old woman in my old age.

Spent most of yesterday lying on the couch, paralyzed and hating my spouse. As I lay there ALL the demons came and had a field day with my soul. Without getting into details my beloved wife tore me a new Ahole in the morning before she left for work. There was absolutely NO reason or provocation for it as she admitted later when she called and apologised. She said she just woke up in a 'bad mood'. I thanked her for apologising and hated her all the more for it (but didn't express it to her). By the time she came home I couldn't even look at her and was on the verge of tears thinking that I just couldn't go on, that I had to get away or go mad.

Went to see our counselor later that evening. I was mad at him as well for insisting I come alone for IC when I felt that my wife should have been there as well (she sees him on the following night for IC). Turns out that he is a lot smarter than I am. As I vented all the horrible things that were wrong with my life I came to a few (assisted) realizations. Turns out that I love my wife to distraction and that I was not as close to the end of my rope as I thought. By my counselor's gentle guidance I was able to see the burden my wife was carrying and to refocus my attention away from myself and back on to plan A. I had planned to stay out after counseling until the house was asleep but went straight home with a renewed sense of purpose.

When I got home I found my beloved wife in bed, under the covers with the lights off, a small huddle of misery. She was so very sorry for what had happened that morning and had no way of expressing it. She revealed that she had dreamed the night before of her uncle who had raped her when she was a child. I told her that I was still there, and that I was there for her whenever she wanted me. I told her that my love for her filled me up and that I wanted to fill her with it as well. She began to weep, this woman who NEVER cries, and took my hand and said "thank you for everything. I love you". She asked me to hold her, this woman who hates to be touched, and I held her until she fell asleep.

I just wanted to write this down so that I never forget. Perhaps someone else can use what I learned. I spent a day focused on my own agony and fears and wound up hating my spouse in the bargain. It was a horrible day. Later on in the same day I moved my focus away from myself and onto the woman I loved. There I discovered not the monster I had spent the day despising, but a lonely, hurting girl trapped in the prison she had built for herself to protect her from the REAL monsters. I held my hand out to her and she took it.

It doesn't matter what the future brings it won't change last night. I have this moment and this epiphany in my heart forever. Please Lord, let me always remember and give us both many more such moments.

CD, you have uncovered the deep love your WW has for you.

Nurture it, br'a. Its the way to happiness.

Aye my friend, that's exactly how it felt. And I see the path you speak of shining in the distance. But I know it's only one of many possible roads leading to the future and I don't know where the one I'm on is leading.

Sooo... Yesterday my best friend presented us with a CD he made of pictures he has taken of the baby (he's the Godfather). On it was a very nice slide presentation of pictures he took on the day my son was born. It tore my heart out. I started thinking of how I felt on that day and of what I know now. The Sex Demon came charging in and he's jabbing me with his needle as I write this. Not really neccessary to describe my thoughts, is it?

Before she left for work my beloved asked to see the pictures. While they were playing she asked me why I wasn't watching. I told her that I had already seen it and it was too hard to watch again. Specifically I told her that they made me think of who was called and what was said after the people in the pictures went home to spread the joyous news. She asked me if it really mattered now!

Dear God, how can she fail to comprehend? Those pictures were taken in November 2004, d-day was May 2005 and I have told her of my concerns that the affair continues even now. YEARS of lies and deceit. NINE MONTHS of her watching my joy and love all the while knowing it was based on a lie. MORE LIES as she continued contact up until at least Father's Day just past. Does it matter? Yeah, it matters.

What a difference a day makes. For those betrayers who may be reading this post see my words and know the truth. Rationalize, explain and regret all you want. There is only one way to describe what you did to your spouse. It was pure, unadulterated, selfish, EVIL. You took things from a person you promised to love that you had no right to take, things which you can never give back. Shame on you!

Had to get this poison out of my system so I put it here. I also wrote my wife a letter she will never see, and got a LOT more specific. It helps to vent and I'm learning how to ride this roller coaster. Plan A is undamaged and I won't let the anguish I'm feeling right now sabotage any progress we may have made.

But please tell the man to stop the ride. It's making me sick and I want to get off.

camp~

Your wife is still in the "fog", as she's got some major denial going on. That's how she's able to ask, "does it really matter now?". It sucks, and it's certainly no excuse, just saying--she doesn't get it yet. If and when she comes to her senses and sees what she did while looking at it from the vantage point of the "light of day", believe you me she will regret not only that comment, but all the other heartless comments and deeds she's done.

Regarding your admonition to betrayers who may be reading here...I may be wrong, but most likely most of us reading here are former betrayers who fully know what we did was "pure, unadulterated, selfish, EVIL". But hey, a reminder once in awhile never hurts. Especially if it helps to get things off your chest. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

~ad

I do apologise to you ma'am, and to anyone else whom I may have hurt by my words. I was venting pure and simple and I realize now that my words should have been directed at my wife and her partner in adultery. I was crying out in anguish and truly didn't mean to lash out at anyone. Shame on ME.

I won't edit my previous post since this thread is one of my journals but I hope that anyone who felt hurt by my words will continue reading on to this one. Now that a few hours have passed I am breathing more deeply and my newest wound is scabbing over. Autumn, thank you for your words and for your understanding. You are a special person.

CD
Like REM almost sang

" Everybody vents...sometimes"

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good vent, br'a !

I posted an OM vent once and got censored ! Me and my mate Aussie were debating whether a baseball bat would smash OM's shins more painfully than a Cricket bat !

Vent on

Ahh, the gentle Brits. I guess you guys retain some of their gentility. Shins hurt, my friend, but knees make em remember ya. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

They censor fantasies here? Lordy, how explicit did you GET?

Aussie is in the Australian SAS. One tough mo'fo'
I'm a projects punk with a VERY shaky youth.

We got pretty graphic. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Click here to see edited version

I'm aure you could've added nicely though !

Love the 'knee' thing !:)

I still have a baby sledge and a can of mace in my trunk in case I meet OM.

Thanks again bOb. I read your thread and it gave me a much needed smile. I'd guess that was your intent. No wonder you are so highly regarded here (and at home). But I think the MB censors need a little more practice.

Oddly enough I have never had the urge to beat the [censored] out of my wife's partner in adultery. What good would it do? I spent half a lifetime being one of the most brutal people in a brutal place and the memories I carry bring me no pride but shame instead. It took five years of retirement and two years of therapy to turn me back into a human being. It may still cost me my marriage. I am not that person anymore nor do I ever want to see him again.

Having said that, let's see how much the censors have learned <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Here's a little NY Prison 101:

NEVER use your hands on an OM if there's anything else available. If you must use your hands avoid the head which is well armored.
A smile will cause a person to relax 99% of the time.
As soon as you know you're gonna dance, move! NEVER let the OM make the first move.
Small blunt objects are quicker and easier to use than big, heavy ones.
A blackjack is properly used back and forth, not up and down.
Most people will get scared when they see their own blood. It gives you an immediate, huge edge.

There are other things I know about like edged weapons, explosives and flammable liquids but this is supposed to be theraputic humor, not an Al Quaida training bulletin. Those are real street fighting tips but viewers should not try them at home. Those that seriously consider such things should think about what it says about someone who feels justified in hurting another person.

Enough disclaimers. How did I do? It's been MONTHS since I even felt like cracking a joke. Sometimes it feels like my smile and laugh are gone forever. Think I'll live?

cd you're right ! Just wanted to make ya smile a bit !

We should have a humour thrhead here !

Doin'y believe the "bob" hype CD.

I'm just a sad man turning all the switches back to 'happy' where I can. Just like you.

Oh goodness camp, no need to apologize. Didn't you see the smilie at the end of my comments? I've been around here long enough to have developed some fairly thick skin. Your words were all sweetness and light in comparison to lots of other things I've read in the past.

But I will be very careful around you from now on. I like my knees.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

And I'll bet they're very nice knees too. Seriously, there WAS a need to apologise and I did see your smiley. Feeling bad is no excuse for lashing out at anyone. I am human and I make mistakes but I want to acknowlege them when I recognize them and try to avoid repeating them. I'm glad you're reading this ma'am because I'd like your input on what I'm thinking about right now.

As I said I'm using this thread as part of my journal of this awful experience. It's about 50/50 right now between writing on paper and writing here. I actually value this record more because of the feedback I get from people I have come to respect. When this thread eventually dies I'm going to print it out and add it to my folder. You guys will be with me the rest of my life, not that I'll need a written record to remember you all.

Feeling a very odd combination of emotions this morning and I'm not really sure what's going on. Today for the first time since this nightmare started I did NOT wake up feeling like I wanted to die. I actually feel kind of upbeat but I'm not sure why and I mistrust the emotion. My heart is lighter but my mind tells me there's little to be happy about.

Wife came home last night and for a change all the children were either out or sleeping. We lay on the bed and actually talked! We spoke of her affair and the reasons for it. We did not agree on everything and a good part of what I heard was hurtful but we did NOT argue or end the discussion on a bad note. First time. I actually got the impression that not only was she being truthful with me, she had actually given the subject some thought. We ended the talk about the affair by mutual agreement when I (stupidly) began knocking her partner in adultery. But we went on to discuss our individual emotional needs and what we were hoping our marriage would become. On the topic of where we wanted our marriage to go we are in seeming agreement.

When the baby woke up we put him in the stroller and went to a church fair they are having around the corner. We had spoken about it earlier on the phone and she said she wanted to go. I didn't mention it when she got home. One of my main issues has been that she avoids spending time with me alone but she said let's go without any prompting from me. We saw some of our neighbors whom we hadn't seen in a while and they all remarked on my new physique. One of the daughters actually said I was 'hot'! Later I remarked how nice it was for people to notice my efforts and to get compliments. She said I deserved it. I made a deliberate comment about wondering when I was going to 'get to her' and she said I WAS getting to her! Yikes. Later, she made some very definite suggestions about what we could do tommorrow morning when she didn't have to get up and get ready for work. Double yikes.

And there's the rub. Am I feeling better just because of the prospect of having sex with my cheating spouse? Am I THAT shallow? I know that some of my good feeling also comes from the nice time we spent together but the sex part worries me. For one thing I know her partner in adultery is going to be right there in bed with us. She has admitted in the not too distant past that she loved having sex with him and that she misses him sexually. I am no kid but I'm surprised to find that I am worried about 'comparisons'.

Another thing is that our sex life even before the time she claims she started her affair was terrible. It was ME who first started avoiding sex because her attitude was always 'let's get it over with' and it had become a chore rather than a pleasure. Now we both know that she was dealing with unconscious rape issues but what does that bode for us when she has only just now begun to deal with them? I'd love to take it slow and just make slippery sensuous love without even worrying about consumation. But I fear it will just be more of the same old slam bam thank you ma'am. After all this time it won't satisfy me to go back to the bad old days.

Then there's the trust issue. *sigh* (I really gotta shrink my brain some. I'm going to go nuts). She was willing to screw me once in all those years when she knew she was pregnant. Can she really be making this suggestion to continue her deception? I reread this entire thread and I see that more than once I asked 'can she really be..' and the answer turned out to be yes. Dear Lord, what a mess I am.

So there it is. Got my thoughts sorted out and I find I still feel OK. Gonna focus on the nice time we spent together and try not to worry about deception. It will come out if it's there. Lord, I know you answer my prayers in your own way and your own time and I trust you. Just please give me the answer I want and need this time.

campdog,

If it's any consolation all of your thoughts and concerns are VERY normal. Par for the course for this period of attempting to rebuild.

I was VERY vey doubtful I would EVER be able to work through all these conflicting feelings and emotions. Not even sure I wanted to. And seriously doubted my sanity many times. I read the book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring Phd (Check your library) and finally realized I was NOT losing it. These feelings are so normal. Believe it or not, there WILL come a time when you won't think about all of this 24/7. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


This is important. In order to work THROUGH this and to encourage her to open up to you, you HAVE to make discussions a SAFE PLACE for her. She has to know you aren't going to lash out at her or throw things back in her face,,not now or at a later time. It's not easy. I know! And LISTEN! You'd be suprised what you can learn when you allow her to bare her soul without interuption. And try to keep your questions to a minimum,,and the IMPORTANT ones. Not "how big is he?" or "what positions/how many times". I know they haunt but the important ones are "What can WE do" What were WE missing?" "What can I do?"


Oppss. We didn't get THAT warning to you fast enough. DON'T do it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> She's not ready to hear it. For some ungodly reason, many FWS's take that as a PERSONAL assault. An attack on THEIR choice, THEIR ABILITY to attract someone desirable. They don't see it as an evaluation of the OP at all. She'll see it herself. Just not right now.


She's probably not commenting regularly cause she sees you everyday. Sometimes it's not easy to see unless others point it out and you REALLY take an unbiased look! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Yes, that is a problem for awhile. You know, one thing I did was to put pictures of US on the nightstands. Us together as a couple. I had a friend that was handy with the camera come over with several rolls of film and take a bunch of very casual pictures of us. Out of several rolls there were many pictures that were good,,good enough to enlarge into 5x7's and frame. And I put them all over the house, particularly in the bedroom. How long has it been since you two have had pictures taken? "Couple" pictures? Just the two of you? I bet no current ones. Hard to think of someone else when there's constant reminders of the TWO OF YOU all over the place!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Also, in the bedroom,, keep your eyes open. Look into each others eyes. Say each others names often. Keep the focus on the TWO OF YOU. Don't let your mind wander.



As you have already concluded, sadly, only time will tell. In the meanwhile, keep giving it all you got! The old saying around here is "Fake it til you make it."

You're doing a great job and I wish you all the luck in this world!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Been a few days since I posted here but I've been reading and thinking. I am seeing signs of progress but as I've said before I mistrust my emotions. I know the capacity people have for self deception and I am more capable than most.

It will only be a couple of days now (2) before I'm able to verify if my wife is telling the truth about NC with her partner in adultery, on the phone at least. I am absolutely expecting to find that they have spoken even though she has adamantly denied this on the three occassions I have asked since June 19. How will I react when I find out the truth, if I am right? How SHOULD I react? It has been so nice having my wife back. Spending time together, giving and receiving gestures of affection and talking is feeding a part of myself that's been starved for years. I have even woken up the past couple of days without feeling like I wanted to die.

I spent the last few days focusing on the positive things I was seeing and telling myself that it was for real. I'm so afraid of the effect that discovering my wife is still talking to that sorry SOB will have that I'm tempted to not check, but of course I will. Since I know for sure that they were still talking as late as June 10 and perhaps beyond that are my expectations too high too soon? I know that two months is way too soon to abandon plan A especially since I am seeing genuine responses. But I am really coming to dread my upcoming revelation.

So hard to see the way. I sometimes think that I'll never be able to think straight again. Am I torturing myself? Am I being a fool? I don't really expect any of you guys to give me any answers, just thinking out loud. But thanks for listening.

CD, you have made it clear that you will not shackle your WW to you right ?

She has to know that no NC means 'No Campdog'.

Be firm but loving. The entry price for your working on your M with her is:

NC for ever
Transparency of action to rebuild your trust
Effort in recovery.

Tell her she doesn;t have to do any of this, but you cannot work on your M without these as such would be less than you deserve being a decent God fearing man.

It should be your WWs job to convince you with proof that she is in NC, not your job to have to find out.

All blessings CD. Its gets better than this I promise.