Her behavior sounds quite typical of a person with Bipolar Disorder...really nothing very out of the ordinary at all. Bipolars really love an audience, and will do almost anything to capture, ahem, captivate one.

The suicide threats are a real downer, I know...on one hand, you want to take them seriously, as bipolars are highly susceptible to taking their own lives, but on the other hand, because of their need to have all attention focused on them, they often use this as a rouse to suck people in to their drama...such a catch-22.

I believe the best possible help that you can offer someone like this is to have them invountarily commited...you would have to check on what it takes to do this in your state...Many people find this a very difficult step to take, but it actually is a very caring approach (the bipolar, of course, will not see it this way). "Tough love" is healthiest for both the affected person AND the family. You cannot, nor should you be forced to be on "suicide watch" 24 hours a day...leave that to the professionals.

Another thing that you should consider, is the effect of the Klonipin. That drug, as well as others in it's class, makes people extremely emotional. Some of her crying can be taken with a grain of salt because of this. Klonipin, however, is a very powerful drug, and it would concern me that she is taking it in excess, especially while driving. I understand that she has taken more than she had that night in the past, but you honestly can't be sure how many that she had taken...I guarantee you that she couldn't really remember herself...this drug is very dangerous in this way, because it does cause memory loss, especially among those who take overdoses of it (I know that you think that .5mg is a small dose, but the highest dosage that they make is only 2mg...read up on Klonipin, what you discover will quite possibly scare you senseless). By the way, the next time that she behaves in this manner, you should call an ambulance, because (1)You really never know when she has ingested a lethal dose, and (2)Once she's in the hospital regarding a possible overdose of meds by a bipolar who has been talking suicide, the attending physician may very well make the call to involuntarily commit her, which I promise you is easier than you trying to do that yourself...

Fooled, you made reference to your behavior towards her sounding harsh...NO, IT ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT!!! You are NEVER suppose to sacifice your own well being for that of someone who is mentally ill and refusing to get help...as sad as the life of someone like that may seem, there is absolutely NOTHING that you can do to make them get help...what they say in Al-Anon also applies to mental illness, "You didn't cause it, you can't change it and you can't cure it".

Something that my counselor said to me in a session one day, really helped me a great deal...She said, "If God can't change the circumstances for a mentally ill person who refuses to get treatment, how can you?"(yes, I know that God actually does have the power to do that and could, but we aren't puppets for Him and He helps thoae who help themselves)...That really put my situation into a perspective that I could grasp...hope it does the same for you...

Fooled, I am praying for God to guide you through this turmoil and give you clarity about what He wants you to do...I want you to see how very much He loves you and how important that your safeguarding your well being is to Him...

Love In Christ,

Mrs. Wondering

Fooled, I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through. Dealing with a mentally ill person is very much like dealing with an addict/alcoholic, which your WW may be as well. I think the similarity is the same tendency toward denial of their illness as well as the impossibility of anyone else helping them if they don't first decide for themselves they want help. Involuntary commitment might work, but in my state, people can't be held against their will unless they can be proved to be an imminent danger to themselves or others or gravely disabled, which means they can't provide or know how to obtain food, clothing or shelter.

Since your problems involve more than just the addiction, you might not feel comfortable in Al-Anon, but I think you need to get help for yourself - individual counselling and/or a support group. Maybe The Wonderings know of a support group for families of people with mental illnesses.

I like support groups because it's so comforting to talk to other people who've shared similar experiences and you can trust they know what you're talking about. There are other people who have successfully handled similar situations to show us the way and we can then show others in turn. I like 12-step programs because of their reliance on a higher power/God of our personal understanding.

You've described some of your own issues from your childhood and how these continue to affect you today. You learned early to take care of and protect others from what you perceived as harmful. I suspect these issues have drawn you, unknowingly, toward spouses who take advantage of your desire to help and protect. Maybe they choose you because they see this in you, rather than you picking them because of their neediness.

The suicide threats are very manipulative, but as you know, and as the Wonderings pointed out as well, people with BPD are at high risk for carrying out their threats.

UPDATE:

WS called early this morning and wants me to take her to the Psychiatric Hospital here in town this afternoon.

Her Cousin ER Doctor, friend of mine wants me to place an offer for him on a $500K home he and his wife have been looking at, BIG MONEY! I told him she wants me to take her to Psyc hospital, and it would have to be later. He said, "why can't she drive herself?" I think he's used to the drama.

I told her I would but if I get over there and she changes her mind, I'm going to be very angry because I'm very busy. She says she understands and wants me to take her. She must really be serious!

Oh Fooled, I so hope that she is serious...I really have my fingers crossed for you about this...My father led us on so many "wild goose chases" regarding hospitalizations and doctor's appts, and I so don't want you to have to endure that...Many times women are quicker to accept help/meds. than men are, and I am praying that this is the case where your wife is concerned...you've had enough "Dland" for now! Please keep us posted...

Mrs. Wondering

Well, she did it!

WS asked I take her to the Psychiatric Hospital this evening. I did! We first went to hospital-A, but when almost there WS said it was the hospital on the other side of town!!! She wasn’t stalling, she really wanted to go. She became so confused as to which one it was that she started crying that she couldn’t handle it. I looked and she had several actually.

Well, when we arrived I realized her insurance would allow her to go to any, since you’re being admitted through the emergency room. WS cousin Psychiatrist’s, best friend, also a good friend of mine is the Chief of Staff of the Psychiatric department at hospital-B. This is the same hospital WS cousin ER Doctor is at. I called Psychiatrist friend and asked him if it wouldn’t be better to go to hospital-B. I had to leave a message on his mobile though. He’s aware of the sit between WS and me. In the meantime I called cousin ER doctor and asked if it wouldn’t be better to go to (his) hospital-B as well. He said yes. Then, Psychiatrist friend called me back and I explained the sit., driving the point home of the problem being BP, sighting all I could to prove it.. Since their best friends, Friend Psychiatrist and Cousin Psychiatrist, I’m worried that Friend P would discount BP just like Cousin P. Cousin P has some issues of his own, but friend P does not. Anyway, with all these docs, we get red carpet treatment when we arrived. I was really hoping to keep family out of it, that’s why I didn’t call friend Psychiatrist. He’s much like family.

They take WS into assessment room and talk while I wait. No doc on sight until friend P comes in tomorrow. I insisted on seeing nurse doing evaluation. Made it clear that BP, or perhaps BP & Klonipin where the real issues. I think I did a good job.

Anyway, I don’t know what WS was expecting, but this place was lock down! No cell phone or cigarettes caused WS to ball hysterically. (That pretty much sums up many of her evenings, although I did think she should be able to smoke. Too much stress otherwise, and she smokes like a 67 Buick with a bad set of rings) “I just want to be safe from killing myself, not be treated like a teenager”, she said! She pleaded to go home, but I got her to stay. I later found out that they will likely keep her 3-6 days! No smoking for that long is going to be torture for her in itself!

Well, I’m going to call friend Psychiatrist in the morning and drive the BP & Klonipin home one more time. He’s much more “reasonable” than Cousin Psychiatrist! However, I felt horrible leaving her there!

Well, we’ll see what happens!

Fooled, I usually post over on recovery but wanted to check up on you. WOW! You've been having a wild ride with WW. Just want you to know I'm sending hugs. You are a good man and she's lucky to have you. Hopefully she'll get help and get her sh** together. Don't settle for less! CV

Well, after checking WS into the Psyc hospital last Thursday, she's become somewhat "hostile" towards me, saying the particular hospital she's in is so much worse than the previous one she was in a few years ago. She stated previously she would only go in the first place if I came to visit.

On the first available visit, Friday evening, she became hostile towards me for a lot of ridiculous reasons and said I had been inconsiderate to her. She thinks I knew this hospital would not let her smoke and didn't have the group activities the other one did. I explained as nice as I could that I'm not the one who she or anyone else should look to for a critique of Pshc Hospitals as I've never had experience with any of them.

After about 15 minutes of hearing this nonsense, I said perhaps I shouldn't be there. She stopped for a while then started right back saying how inconsiderate I'd been. I finally said I really didn't want to get into a discussion of "inconsiderate" behavior from either of us (she knew what I was suggesting). That sent her crying back to her room and the nurse said she didn't want to see me.

I told her to call me if she needed anything. She did call the next day to accuse me of calling our mutual friend, "Psychiatrist friend" because she was complaining of not getting Tylonol for her headaches. I assured her I hadn't done that because she requested that I didn't. Turns out it was her sister.

I don't know how this suicide "lock down" is supposed to help other than she may have seen something that there is to really be depressed about. I think after evaluation today, they will let her go home. In the end, I don't know what good this will have done at all except to prevent a suiced attempt while she's there.

I really don't know what to expect when she gets out!

Thanks again for the support and I wanted to give an update as best I could, but will probably have more to say later. Any insight anyone could provide that would help make this stay of hers more productive, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much!

Fooled

Fooled...

There is NOTHING that YOU can do to make HER stay more productive. You are being kind to her and you have supported her attempt at getting help, but that's the most that you can really do when it comes to her hospital stay...only SHE can CHOOSE to help herself...it's out of your hands. YOU can pray and take care of YOU. Start counseling and a support group...in the long run this will help you AND will keep you from becoming or continuing to be her enabler(which will help her in the only real way that you can)...In other words, stop allowing her to control you with her mental illness(i.e. you lose sleep, drop everything to placate her, be her audience while she is behaving irrationally, etc.)...don't make excuses for her...draw a boundary that in order for her to remain married to you she must take and stay on meds...you may even choose to make it a condition of being married to you, that she give you medical power of attorney over her-which would mean if she went off meds, you could have her commited involuntarily(you would need to check with an attorney regarding what the law says about this in your state). Remember, if you choose to stay married to her, you will have to develop some crystal clear personal boundaries in counseling...so, get started on you...

What meds are they currently giving her during her stay? How does she say she feels about taking them? Has she truly admitted that she has a problem, properly identified it and come to "own" her diagnosis?

Mrs. Wondering

I just found out that PDoc is going to keep her longer and take it day by day.

She's been on Effexor & Klonipin for years, which he still has her on. He's going to take her off the Effexor and put her on something else, but isn't sure yet. Nurse will give it to her tonight. He may still have her on Klonipin due to the seizure withdrawals that can happen if stopping it abruptly.

Also, he's had her on something called "Lamictal" (sp). I have no idea if this is how it's spelled, but that's how it sounds. She asked him specifically if any of the medications were used to treat Bipolar disorder, he said NO! They’re to treat depression and anxiety disorder.

I'm so worried he discounts the bipolar issue. I know he's got many diplomas and credentials that I don't, but I'm sorry, HE DOESN'T HAVE TO LIVE WITH HER AND SEE THE REALITY OF IT!

I’ve already left him a message last Friday that couldn’t have been any clearer in regards to her previous diagnosis of bipolar, and what I saw that confirms it from being around her as much as I have. Should I contact him again? I’m afraid if I do it may make him angry, and make me appear to be a “know it all”, when indeed I know nothing other than what I see. But that is a lot!

What do you think??

UPDATE:

Perhaps I was wrong. I just did a search for Lamictal and found the following:

"Difficult Mood Disorder Successfully Treated; Largest Study Proves Effectiveness Of Lamotrigine (Generic for Lamictal) For Rapid Cycling Manic-Depression".

Perhaps he's telling her it's not for bipolar since people being treated for bipolar tend to not take their meds. Who knows? I did tell him I thought she had "rapid cycle" bipolar disorder. We're friends and he thinks highly of me, so perhaps he listned? I don't know?

Update:

My friend, Pdoc, called me today while WW was in his office to give me an update.

He said he is treating her for what he believes is BIPOLAR DISORDER, Halleluiah!

He’s going to make her stay one more day and will likely release her tomorrow, Wednesday. He said he’s going to continue to see her regularly on an outpatient basis.

He is treating her with Lamictal, and I believe also ZYPREXA. I’m not 100% sure of the second because I was driving and couldn’t write it down, but will check for sure.

He’s taken her off Effexor, but thinks she needs to stay on the Klonipin for the time being. The fact he’s diagnosed her with Bipolar Disorder is great news to me.

I think the Lamictal is already taking effect because she sounds out of it when I talk to her. I don’t know if that’s good or bad.

I asked him not to disregard her “manic” episodes even if she claims she doesn’t have any. She’s manic every time she does horrible things to me or anyone else. I mentioned this because what I’ve read about Lamictal, it’s primarily an anti-depressant, which by itself can actually cause manic episodes. I don’t know about the ZYPREXA. I would appreciate any one's feedback with info on these drugs being used to treat bipolar disorder.

Fooled!

Fooled,

I agree with the Wonderings, get yourself into a support group and/or individual counseling. Your psychiatrist friend knows what he's doing. Check out this link: www.psycheducation.org/depression/meds/moodstabilizers.htm. Lamictal is a newer anticonvulsant, used like many other anticonvulsants as a mood stabilizer. Zyprexa is an antipsychotic, which will help to immediately stabilize her moods.

From now on, her treatment is between her and her doctor. In my state, you can't commit anyone involuntarily, only a doctor or other healthcare worker with the necessary authorization can do that. You'll have to find out about the laws in your state. If that's not an option, your only choice is what you want to do and what boundaries you are willing to maintain. This is why a support group and counselling with someone experienced with codependency issues is so important for you. Don't respond to her anger, it's part of her illness.

She's in treatment and that's a huge step forward. Good luck!