Julie,

I've been reading your thread, and thought I'd jump in and point out a few things that you may or may not know...

1. Just because your husband never had an email acct. before, doesn't mean he doesn't have one now...what motivation would he have to tell you that he'd opened one if he is using it to communicate with the OW? How do you know that he doesn't have an email acct.? Almost all WSes with access to a computer set up secret email accounts...I hate to say this, but your H may be counting on you thinking that he "hates the puter"...A GREAT SMOKESCREEN...
Before my own A, I HATED personal email...I only used the computer to shop. However, once in the A, I couldn't get enough personal email correspondence with the OM...people in A's become very different from the what they used to be...

2. Did you know that an Ipod allows you to use it as a "little black book"? You may be able to find OW's last name, email address, home address and/or all her phone numbers just by taking a look through the "extras" section of your H's Ipod...

3. I'm sure that you are aware that cell phone history is easily cleared, so your not finding any unfamiliar numbers may be a product of your H just erasing her calls as they come in...

So sorry that you are in this situation, but it's great that you are here doing all that you can to understand what may be going on...

Mrs. Wondering

Mrs. W, thank you for chiming in. The more help/feedback I can get, the better off I am, I'm sure.

1. Yes, he could have an account but it's highly unlikely. I work from home, so I'm on it nearly 24/7. Do I leave the house? Of course, so it's not IMPOSSIBLE. Why such doubt? Because I can check history on my PC (and no - he DOESN'T know how to clear THAT) and I've found nothing suspicious. Possible, yes, but very very unlikely.
2. No, I had no idea...well I guess I'd heard that a while ago, but I guess I'd "spaced out" the iPod functioning as a way to store contacts. Man, and I sold it to myself, as a gift for him! Worked in the IT Sales industry almost 4 years. I will check that tonight and update as to what I find.
3. Yes call history can be erased, and I'm willing to bet he's caught on to this by now. But all bills are in my name, so he doesn't even have access to his own cell phone bill. We've talked about getting it switched to him, but it hasn't been a big concern/priority for either of us. I haven't checked it in a while, I will do so again though.

As for the note, you can mention of not feeling safe but not the details of the note. Kind of in a casual, way like:

BS: (look sad with heavy sighs).

WS: What's the matter?

BS: Can't put my finger on it exactly....don't feel safe. Something is not right. Can you help me figure it out?

WS: What's not right? I'll try.

BS: Well I've been having these funny, creepy feelings like someone is trying to but into our lives again. You know bad dreams, weird feelings, not sure. Do you know of anything? Has the Ow been in any sort of contact since.....well since something like ___/___/___? (Name the day before the note - not when you found it but the day before it was sent to cover your timeframe).

Then watch his reaction, watch his eyes. Give him time to react. WS' process this stuff slowly.

L.

No details huh? I was thinking of going with something more like...

Me: Can we have a talk?

Him: Sure, what's up?

Me: Well, first off, thanks for putting forth some extra effort. I know I'm still a little weird about accepting compliments, but since putting it all on paper in a Q&A fashion instead of an angry/sad/scared note, it's really helping me to remember what I've "asked" of you. In just a short time, I can see how it's already helped us.

Him: Yea (probably won't have much more to say than that!)

Me: One thing I didn't mention to you Monday night when we talked, because it never came up and I was too irrational, is that I found a note in the basement, in the box by the TV. Did you get that from _____? It's pretty heavy, full of emotion, what does it mean to you?

Him: blah, blah, blah...

Me: What has seeing her been like since you received it?

Him: blah, blah, blah...

Me: OK. As I've told you before, I don't want us to go on like this. Me worrying about her/other, you feeling confused/guilty. If we're to work on us, I need to feel safe. And I don't feel safe with you having contact with her, no matter what it is. I really think it'd be in our family's best interest if you quit.

Him: <<<reaction>>>

Me: I really need your help in burying this, and you're going to need my help in meeting EN & helping you sort out your feelings. I think you should write her a note, and I'll deliver it.

...and follow the guidelines for the note, etc. In walks Plan A.

I'm not saying you're wrong & I'm right. I appreciate your idea and will give it serious thought. Will you share with me though, Orchid, why you've chosen your way over mine? Please?

Why....well you hold all the info and I was working from what I read.

I suggested being vague because it sounded like you weren't sure if he would deny it. Just a hunch. The vague way would help you get a better pix of his true direction.

Your way would let him know about the note. Your cover w/b blown but if that is ok then your way can work. Just remember the intent of your convo.

You sound like you know what you want and how. You also show that you acknowledge when you are not strong enough to handle deep conversations. This is good.

L.

Orchid, I probably won't get the whole truth, he probably will down-play it, but I do want him to know I saw it. And I think without it, I'm not armed with as much reason for him to get away from her. After all, I've known they're friends & too many feelings had been involved & she "likes" him for some time now, so w/o knowledge of the note why do I want him to leave all of a sudden? Ya know?

Bear with me here, I just thought of something that may or may not mean anything, but if you're willing to offer your thoughts on it I welcome them.

In the last couple months we've adopted a "tradition" of getting dinner from there once a week. Typically he either goes by himself or takes one or both of the kids. She's met them, but that hasn't really bothered me much. They have no idea what her name is, just that they talk to the ladies who work there while they wait for the food. Anyway, a couple weeks ago we had 2 birthday parties to attend on a Sunday. One was a friend's kids, so it was the kind of party where you rent something fantastic to keep the kids busy all day while the adults drink & socialize. The other was my family, where everything has to be uptight and you have to sit and exchange strange glances with everyone else there. I had my outfit picked out but couldn't decide on shoes. He suggested a favorite pair of his, which really did look good, but I felt a little awkward wearing CFM heels to a kid's (in my family) birthday party. But, since he was so pleased with the look, I wore them anyway.

It was a long night so we decided to call in our dinner there. We pulled up & he got out, the kids started to get out, and he said to me, "aren't you coming in?" I said, "No I'll wait here". I could see from where we were parked OW was there. All in all it was a great day but I guess I decided to share it w/you now cuz I guess I wouldn't have expected him to expect me to come in. I had no desire to meet her, I'd likely be very rude, but looking back it seems he wanted me to meet her, or maybe wanted her to see me in the great shoes/outfit? So in hindsight I really probably should have gone in & put on the biggest, happiest smile I could muster, and sat in there joking & carrying on w/my family painting a happy, happy picture for her right in front of her very eyes.

Relevance?

I think you know yourself well enough to know what t/d. As for the relevance of the previous potential encournter, it was a good sign he asked you in. Next time don't hestitate even if you look like you just came in from the rain. Raging beauty or cute ragamuffin, you are still his W and he s/b happy you are with him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

BTW, your beauty from within and outside transcends all the beauty the OW can muster up. Why? Because beneath it all she is still an OW. Right now that goes straight to the bones. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

JMHO,
L.

Hmm, good point. Don't you hate it when you think of what you should have done AFTER the fact? Story of my life.

Thank you so much for taking this time to get to know me & my situation. Since I can't realistically see having an opportunity to "confront" him until Monday, I won't be able to update until then. Forgive me though, if I think of 86 different things between now & then that I feel like bouncing off the members here.

Once again, I really appreciate your help. And once again, I'm leaving here tonight feeling more empowered. Now, off to make the house presentable for the night's festivities...

Morning everybody. I'm bumping this thread instead of starting another because in each of my actions, I still really worry if I'm being naive or doing the right thing, etc.

As those of you who followed me yesterday know, "D-Day" will be tomorrow, as far as I can tell right now anyway. We were supposed to have guests last night but ended up having none. This has happened before, and it has turned into either a night of us just watching movies, or him pacing, being upset that the plans are ruined and now he can't "blow off steam" from all the pent up *whatever* from the long hard week. Last night was a little of both; I asked if he wanted to order a movie and he said no, he didnt' feel like sitting there. He gave just going out to the bar or another friend's house some serious thought, and I tried to hide it but this scared me, because although I don't really think he ever sees OW outside the workplace, I just didn't want that opportunity to exist. He did mention both of us going out, but we both knew we couldn't find a babysitter that late in the evening. Anyway, he ended up getting a bit sleepy, watching football which I loathe, and I kind of just let him be. Eventually he came around, telling me about some of the players' contracts & injuries & new rules/regulations in college football. All stuff I don't care one bit about, but I really listened attentively and laughed/smiled where appropriate. So I think we both made the best of the crappy evening we were dealt.

He'll be working (related to his actual profession) at a friend's house and afterward they're planning to cook out & drink, etc. I was having a crabby morning w/kids and before I knew it my Taker took over with him, and he left the house probably thinking, "THIS is why I don't want to be married!" and I stayed hurt, thinking he was selfish not to help me out. Then I re-read about Giver & Taker and realized I was out of line. So I called him and apologized, told him I love him, and that's it. He said, "It's OK, just make sure you come down & see me today."

Should I go over to see him, and have fun with our friends when the work is done? Or should I give him this day to be away from us all, doing his own thing? Sorry this is long...I guess my main concern right now is whether I should give him a bit of space or not, knowing I won't be his favorite person tomorrow...

iPod is clear. No contacts, no notes.

Julie,

Good on the Ipod thing...and by all means go and have a blast...Plan A is about acting, not reacting...YOU go and YOU have a great time...the rest will follow...

Mrs. Wondering

Thanks Mrs. W...I'm getting all gussied up and actually look forward to getting OUT and having FUN!! Still considering calling the workplace before I leave, to try to get her last name...worth a try, or wait till I talk to him tomorrow? Whaddya think?

I'm avoiding. I've been "studying" here & reading posts all morning trying to get pumped/strong/ready, but I'm now faced with it and the fear of failure/emotional outburst is making me want to just skip it. We had a great night last night. Tomorrow it's back to work. I'm not confident that I've got the time/resources/strength to confront him!

Julie~

In order for your marriage to be all that it was intended to be, there must be complete openess and honesty...you can't even begin to make it that way until all the cards are on the table...it won't be easy, but you've read and studied, and you know what you have to do and how to do it...we will all be here to help you with the next steps once you take this first one...

I am reminded of a quote from one of my favorite books, A Rich Man's Secret by Ken Roberts..."Take the first step, no more, no less, and the rest will follow."...

Thinking of you...

Mrs. Wondering

Finally mustered up the guts to do it, and the phone rang. My son, who was at my sil's house, needs to be picked up NOW because they got into trouble. My son has been having issues, behaviorally, MC says due to H & I not communicating very well. I can't really argue with him. Anyway, so I told H that a priority of mine today is to have a talk with him (him at least knowing of my intention will hopefully hold me accountable) but I'd like him to go get my son & deal with the issue over there.

This is how it always goes. I have a pressing issue, but for whatever reason I put off talking to him about it and sometimes I never do take it to him, either because I convince myself it's not worth the trouble (argument, resentment, hurt, me getting emotional & irrational causing him to get angry) or because LIFE gets in the way. Parenthood, bills, cars, etc. I know this is what's killing us - dealing with ISSUES and forgetting to be a COUPLE - and I'm sure that makes OW very attractive - she doesn't have kids or many responsibilities, to my knowledge.

Anyway, here's hoping he "holds me to it" tonight and that the fear of Step 1 dies today. Earlier, there was talk of him calling in tomorrow (day job, actual career) so that we can spend the day together uninterrupted. If we don't talk until late tonight (confront), that may be necessry!

Julie ~ confronting your husband is not his responsiblity.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
lol! It took me a few seconds to catch that one!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Julie, hi!

I've read your thread, and don't have much to say, except that to me your husband seems innocent except being a bit flattered by the girl's attention.

I am not for a second suggesting you change what you are doing, but, your sitch sort of reminded me of something that happened to me once upon a time...

I had ran across an old picture of my ex-wife, and set it aside in an out-of-the-way place in a storeroom. My g/f at the time found it, and read all sorts of stuff into where I had left the picture. "You have a secret place where you go think about her..." Of course, there was no such intent, but it sure made her jealous.

I hope your husband is completely innocent of any wrong doing, and his attitude of absolutely no contact with her will tell you alot. He should be absolutely willing to cut her completely out of his life.

Best regards...

p.s. You got LemonMan to post to you! Wow! I thought he had left MB. You must be special <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

WST, thank you for your post, and your point of view. Guess what? Everyone "reads" something a little different into my situation, including me, and it's all great to read & consider. However, only one person is truly aware of exactly what's going on - H. SOOOOOOOooo I need to pull myself together, get my son's punishment under way, and take the first step in building a real relationship with my husband. I won't call him innocent, because he felt the need to hide it. If he was my best friend, and I his, he would have come home and showed it to me, and we would have laughed about it.

I wondered how many would catch the "CFM". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> H's & my favorite show together - we're still mourning the loss! Tomorrow I expect I'll have lots to share with you fine folks. Confronting him is not his responsibility - words to live by!

So it went pretty well. I kept my cool until the very end. The note is from her, she gave it to him on Saturday (I found it Monday) in passing as he wasn't in the building much that night. He says it meant nothing to him, he threw it away. I asked him how it was seeing her afterward and he said it was weird, I asked him if he was surprised and he said yes. I told him something obviously led up to her writing it and he said yes, he let her stroke his ego. Said he never talked BAD about me, but he'd vent to her after a tough day and it was nice to hear her kind words with respect and admiration when he wasn't getting it here. He said it was weird to get the poem because he'd already "turned it off" by discontinuing conversation with her.

I told him I'm not angry with him, that I understand his need for someone to listen to him and that I've learned a lot in this past week (I have, THANK YOU ALL!!) and that I'm confident that together, we can get thru this. I said I need to feel safe, and that I don't feel safe with him working there - that she is a danger to our relationship and that we need to have no contact with her, that I need him to quit. He said he doesn't agree, because he's already stopped talking to her, but he does understand and then thought for a moment, then said OK to quitting. He seemed relieved, like there was a release from within.

After a short pause, I asked him how he's going to do it - would he go in or just call? He said "Well I have to give 'em at least 2 weeks notice" and carried on about how this job has been a good resource and he can't burn the bridge. I started to cry, I had no rebuttal. I told him it was likely to be an ugly 2 weeks - word would spread, she may write more letters or corner him every chance she got to try and convince him otherwise, but he maintained he needs not to burn the bridge. I told him our conversation had to be over so I could think and figure this out. (with all your help!)

He cannot go back there. Our conversation was such a good one, I don't want to make waves now, but I really don't want him to go back there!!

Well, it is up to your Wayward Husband to make you feel safe with all of this. Perhaps this was all "nothing" and just a case of a woman having the hots for a married man and he got a little carried away with the ego boost and let her go too far with it.....in his mind it was all innocent on his part so "what is the big deal?" maybe??? But...if I were you, I would keep my eyes and ears open especially now....

Something just feels "wrong" here to me, I just can't put my finger on it. I had this compulsion to post to you the other night, and I am not sure why......you should know that I am at present a pessimist at heart with this infidelity stuff (I will sadly admit that it is MY PRESENT OPINION, that a cheater is ONLY as faithful as his/her current options---admittedly a VERY unpopular view here, and one I will willingly accept dissent about), so feel free to disregard my opinions/views...you will not offend me in the least.

Goodluck with all of this. I hope you get the resloutiuon you want from this.

Lem.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />