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When in the state of Intimacy, both spouses want the other to be happy, and neither spouse wants to see the other hurt. In the state of Conflict, both spouses want to be happy and neither wants to see themselves hurt. Actually, both objectives are important, and that's why I created a negotiating rule to achieve those important objectives regardless of the state of mind spouses happen to be in. I call it the Policy of Joint Agreement -- it takes the best from the advice of both our Giver and our Taker. Which brings me to a question .... emotional honesty ... I don't think a couple can be successful in POJA negotiations without emotional honesty. How can one POJA with an emotionally dishonest partner? .... lest we forget ... a conflict avoider is emotionally dishonest ... REMEMBER THE QUESTION THAT OPENS POJA [color:"purple"]How would you feel about this ..... [/color]
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How would you feel about this ..... Do you apply this question to all of your dealings with your S so that it becomes an ingrained habit or do you two need to specifically accept and agree upon the POJA concept first?
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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How can one POJA with an emotionally dishonest partner?
.... lest we forget ... a conflict avoider is emotionally dishonest ... Do you think conflict avoidance ie emotional dishonesty sets the stage for other levels of dishonesty in a person? I find it very difficutl to lie now where it used to just flow out of me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I have consciously worked on this flaw since I was outed last year.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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From this site regarding emotional honesty And finally, in order to make the best decisions, you must be radically honest with each other about your emotional reactions to the changes in your lives. The best decisions take the emotional reactions of both of you into account simultaneously, but without an honest expression of those reactions, you will be missing the target.
While some couples may fail to make a successful adjustment after feelings are honestly explained, failure is almost guaranteed when the need for adjustment is never communicated. Always take each other's complains seriously. As I mentioned earlier, your emotional reactions are a gauge of whether you are making a good adjustment to each other. If you both feel good, you need no adjustment. If one or both of you feel bad, a change is indicated.
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Expressing a feeling is not the same as expressing demands. If you try to tell your spouse what to do, you are not revealing an honest feeling; you are making a demand. If your spouse does something that bothers you, the correct way to express it is simply say that it bothers you. The Policy of Joint Agreement would take over from that point to help you try to resolve the problem. .... so we must be honest about our feelings ... and then POJA
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How would you feel about this ..... Do you apply this question to all of your dealings with your S so that it becomes an ingrained habit or do you two need to specifically accept and agree upon the POJA concept first? It seems reasonable to me to check in with your spouse's emotional well-being .... even where you two are right now .... does that seem reasonable to you?
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I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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According to the book, a Buyer cannot go to Plan B because a Buyer is committed to the relationship for life.
To invoke Plan B, a Buyer must become a Renter. That's the only way they can "leave" the relationship and live under Plan B. [color:"red"] my reply[/color] [color:"red"] I think this is why i resisited going to plan B!!
I am a buyer "pretending" to be a renter by doing plan B only in the hopes it will bring my H home. [/color] I had just posted this comment on Mulan's thread before i came here and read the same kind of thoughts!! Quote:
Apparently, being in PLAN B I have now supposedly become a Renter, for sure This discussion has helped me understand how/why some BS struggle ( for what seems to me a verrrrrry long time ) before deciding to finally go to Plan B. It's the Buyer ... reluctant to become a Renter.
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It seems reasonable to me to check in with your spouse's emotional well-being .... even where you two are right now .... does that seem reasonable to you? Yes, in fact whether M'd or D'd I think this would be useful as co-parents. Hmm..this could possibly apply with your children as far as checking in with their emotional well-being.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Confession time, or admitting what is obvious to everyone:
"a conflict avoider is emotionally dishonest ..."
This would be me......or, keeping my Taker's needs from being met....or, my comfort zone is being a Giver.
Well, it's about time I do a better 'balancing act' of these two, and go 'outside the box'.
Actually, I now wonder if being in PLAN B changes Buyers to Renters.
If PLAN B is the only effective tool left, a BS in PLAN B may still be a Buyer, doing reluctantly what needs to be done, PLAN B being the last thing BS/Buyer can do to salvage M - as awkward as it may sound - by 'distancing' oneself from WS!
XBW
DS16 & DS22
PLAN D: finalized!
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I now understand why I never could do a Plan B--the light has came on. I couldn't ever bring myself to be a renter.
Hindsight--wish I would have as it may have made my WH truly hit bottom.
Maybe this D will make him hit bottom he may not come back even after hitting bottom but I would like for him to become a better person no matter what.
Albany
BW 30-me
WS 30
married 1995
together 1993
son 3 1/2
A: May 1999 June 2003
OC born 5/04
Paternity established 9/05
moved back in 4/01/05
Supposedly moving out again 11/01/05
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I've just finished reading the book, and I realised that I've been trying to POJA with H for our whole marriage.
What goes wrong is that he has no idea how he feels about anything. I say 'How would you feel if...' (I've used those very words time and time again!), and he says, 'Fine'. He has no way to access what he actually feels about it, even when I'm doing what he agreed to and he's not happy. He doesn't even know he's not happy about it, isn't aware he's acting grumpy, simply finds himself acting out his anger without any understanding of where it came from.
How do you POJA with someone who always says 'Fine'?
TA
"Integrity is telling myself the truth. And honesty is telling the truth to other people." - Spencer Johnson
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TA - it sounds like your H has no concept of the idea of Emotional Honesty. The book does talk about that. This behavior is also a hallmark of Conflict Avoiders.
Mulan
Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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Hey! I tried this morning with "how would you feel about taking DD to your mom's for Thanksgiving?" I actually got a positive response by phrasing it this way.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Would you define someone with a consistantly messy house a renter? In the past year or so my cooking and cleaning have suffered. Much of it is now due to I just don't care to do it. Obviously I feed my family but more often than not it is something very simple or we pick up take out. It seems like I have slipped into a different mindset than I used to have.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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***Would you define someone with a consistantly messy house a renter?***
I guess you could, if Domestic Support is one of your partner's Emotional Needs. Renters only do what they have to do to keep the relationship and expect an equal measure of sacrifice in return for their own sacrifices. If you do not feel you are getting equal measure in return for the "sacrifice" of domestic support and so you've stopped doing it, then that is probably the Renter's mindset.
Buyers will POJA getting their needs met and will look for mutually satisfying solutions.
Freeloaders just don't care. If their partners are not getting their ENs met in the relationship, that's the partner's problem and the partner should change their needs. A Freeloader's only committment to a relationship is to "not leave it".
Mulan
Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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Would you define someone with a consistantly messy house a renter? I would say your example offers insufficient information to determine .... one piece of data does not mean much outside the context in which it occurs quit overthinking this FF ....
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yes ma'am..(hanging head) Giving it more thought it is likely my depression driving the machine again. I have to get off this med and on to something else. I am barely functioning most days. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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yes ma'am..(hanging head) Giving it more thought it is likely my depression driving the machine again. I have to get off this med and on to something else. I am barely functioning most days. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Depression is not compatable with maintaining a clean house .... go see your doctor sweetie
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I now understand why I never could do a Plan B--the light has came on. I couldn't ever bring myself to be a renter. quite the "ah-HA!" moment ... isn't it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I would like for him to become a better person no matter what. oooooohhhhh I am so resisting clubbing you over the head right now ..... ME ~~~>>> *breathe-in *breathe-out* ..... re-read the POJA part of this discussion ... and pay particular attention to respect .... see if you can spot the disrespectful judgement <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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