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I moved in with my wife to be, but now she saids she does not know if she wants to marry me because I will control her life. I speak all the time about being submissive and she said does that mean I have to do everything you ask? I said if I am not asking you to do anything crazy yes. I also told her that I am submissive to you aswell, whatever she asks me I will do it for her. I need to know why do some women look at being submissive as being controled?

To the woman out there that might read this post I am not trying to control I am trying to understand!!

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Being submissive is not being controling, being dominating or dominated can be controling. However if she feels this way then you might want to get to the root of whats really going on with her before getting married.


Joe

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I agree Joe and that is a challenge in itself. I have found that the things I thought she would know about being a wife she does not know. But there is a catch we are not married yet so she does not have to be submissve to me yet. That is something I am learning to deal with, but am I wrong for wanting her to be submissive now verses waiting until we get married? I feel you should act like your married before you get married, but what do I know!!

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(((Tlove)))

First off, if you "Speak ALL the time" about pretty much anything, I can see how she can view it as controlling. It's like you are trying to pound your beliefs into her head. Heck, it may not be the submissive thing at all rather how you verbally push your aggenda.

On the brother issue, neither of you are right or wrong, if anything you are both wrong.

You talk about praying that she'll come around and pushing the idea of a submissive wife which I presume comes with religous backing, yet y'all are shacking up, what's up with that?

Now let's cut to the bottom line. One major cause for failure of marriages is that people don't share the same ideas and goals of marriage. What is your idea and goal of marriage? What is hers? If things were to remain as they are, I would say you were a fool if you went through with marriage because y'all obviously don't share the same ideas as to what a marriage ought to be and even now before marriage you are building resentments that it won't take to long for y'all to trip over. So why did you choose to move in with her? Why do you want to marry someone with such different views?


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I'm a guy and clearly understand the submissive thing. I know it has it's benefits. But it only works well in the hands of a guy who doesn't abuse it. It works when the wife is submissive and the husband in-turn is REALLY looking out for his wife's needs and well-being. That means asking her opinion, choosing her hapiness over your own at times. Many of the churches will even tell you that a leader should lead as a servant to his people. You can view yourself the same way. As a leader in the house, your job is servant for the household; not king.

Just to have submission so the guy can feel like "a man" is missing half of the equation. So I'd take a good look to make sure you are being the kind of man you should be.

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I can understand where you are coming from Bill and I will take your thoughts into consideration. I moved in with her because I thought we were preparing for marriage but like you said we have different veiws. I did not know that until now. On the shacking thing many people don't agree with me but my view on that is if we don't have sex what sin are we committing? There is nothing wrong with a male and a female living under the same roof. You can have sex and not be living together what is the difference. If we had not lived together then I would have never known what I know now. I am great for the constructive critisism but I must say Bill the tone of your email sounds a bit harsh!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

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Tlove,

I don't think Bill was harsh. He was direct and gave you some serious things to think about. Since marriage is a serious thing it shouldn't be entered into lightly. You are here because things aren't going well and that is good. You are going to get alot of advice from some pretty bright people who have learned alot and don't want to see you make the same mistakes they have or have seen others make.

Personally, as far as marriage goes, please reconsider. It doesn't seem like you are ready nor that you two are meshing as partners. If you were there wouldn't be a struggle already between 'right' and 'wrong' / 'submision' and 'control'. If you are the least bit concerned about the problems you are having now you can multiply that 10-fold for what will happen after you say "I do". It only gets worse. Wedding vows do not solve problems.

You would be very smart to set aside the tone that you read into Bills reply and really listen to him. He knows of what he speaks and is a very wise man. He also holds his beliefs in high regard and can offer you alot on that perspective.

Symphony


[color:"purple"]Men go to far greater lengths to avoid what they fear than to obtain what they desire.
The Da Vinci Code

Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all.
Dale Carnegie

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
Ralph Waldo Emerson[/color]
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(((Tlove)))

“””I am great for the constructive criticism but I must say Bill the tone of your email sounds a bit harsh!!”””

That’s great to think that but few can apply it when challenged with their core beliefs. I reread my post and can’t see harshness anywhere near it, as Symphony said, I do see directness which is how I communicate.

“””I have found that the things I thought she would know about being a wife she does not know.”””

What are those things?

“””But there is a catch we are not married yet so she does not have to be submissive to me yet.”””

What is your definition of her being submissive?

“””On the shacking thing many people don't agree with me but my view on that is if we don't have sex what sin are we committing?”””

Ask any preacher worth his grain in salt and he’ll probably quote 1 Thessalonians 5:22-23: "Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." I, personally, don’t know of any organized Christian religion that promotes living together before marriage or for that matter would not view it as evil.

“””There is nothing wrong with a male and a female living under the same roof.”””

That is your view. I would say that the proof is in the pudding. We have some wonderful number crunchers around these boards and with the world wide web so much information is at our fingertips, I believe that if you do the research that you’ll find that co-habitation relationships have a higher failure rate and a higher divorce rate than traditional relationships. So even if one were to concede that there wasn’t anything “wrong” with it, they’d still be faced with the facts that it increases the odds for divorce. Why is that?

“””You can have sex and not be living together what is the difference.”””

Really, by who’s standard? IMVHO both are sins. Let’s talk about sex for a moment. Sex changes the dynamics of the relationship especially when introduced to early just like shacking up changes the dynamics. IMVHO both of these things cause a rift in communication skills and as a man it then becomes very easy to revert to our primitive ways and feel that we’ve conquered our quest. Many then begin trying to dictate and control their bounty. We stop perusing and courting because we’ve already got our prize. When in fact, in a relationship that lasts a lifetime, the man and woman for that matter, only stop courting and perusing when they draw their last breath.

“””If we had not lived together then I would have never known what I know now.”””

I totally whole heartedly believe your placing the emphasis in the wrong area. IMVHO it should be on communication. Had you communicated properly y’all would have known this long ago. Communication is the key, how many times have you heard that? That y’all made it to this point without you discovering this about your GF absolutely puzzles me and says a lot about the level of communication in the relationship.


Hugz, Thoughtz, & Prayerz

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Look the word up in a dictionary or check for synonyms in a word processing program.

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What are those things?
Just knowing what a wife should do and what a wife should not do. Example she does not like to let me know where she is going to be. I feel that a couple should be accountable for each other. She saids that I am being noisy, when she goes out she just like to say I am going out and I don't know where. That kind of thing bothers me

What is your definition of her being submissive?
Submissive to me is if I am loving the way a husband is suppose then you should have no problem doing some of things I ask you. To me being submissive is if you are going to leave the house let me know where you are going.

I am sorry but what does IMVHO stand for?

I have come to the place of realizing that we are not ready for marriage. I have learned to work on me and stop trying to fix her. The problem I am having the most if remembering that she is not my wife. But at times I still want her to treat me like a wife should, but that is not going to happen until she is my wife. This forum has helped me a lot. I have learned to talk less and pray more. My desire is not to come across as demanding or controlling, so I am willing to work me so that I don't become that kind of person

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S: (adj) submissive (inclined or willing to submit to orders or wishes of others or showing such inclination) "submissive servants"; "a submissive reply"; "replacing troublemakers with more submissive people"
S: (adj) slavish, subservient, submissive (abjectly submissive; characteristic of a slave or servant) "slavish devotion to her job ruled her life"; "a slavish yes-man to the party bosses"- S.H.Adams; "she has become submissive and subservient"

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(((Tlove)))

“””I am great for the constructive criticism but I must say Bill the tone of your email sounds a bit harsh!!”””

That’s great to think that but few can apply it when challenged with their core beliefs. I reread my post and can’t see harshness anywhere near it, as Symphony said, I do see directness which is how I communicate.

“””I have found that the things I thought she would know about being a wife she does not know.”””

What are those things?

“””But there is a catch we are not married yet so she does not have to be submissive to me yet.”””

What is your definition of her being submissive?

“””On the shacking thing many people don't agree with me but my view on that is if we don't have sex what sin are we committing?”””

Ask any preacher worth his grain in salt and he’ll probably quote 1 Thessalonians 5:22-23: "Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." I, personally, don’t know of any organized Christian religion that promotes living together before marriage or for that matter would not view it as evil.

“””There is nothing wrong with a male and a female living under the same roof.”””

That is your view. I would say that the proof is in the pudding. We have some wonderful number crunchers around these boards and with the world wide web so much information is at our fingertips, I believe that if you do the research that you’ll find that co-habitation relationships have a higher failure rate and a higher divorce rate than traditional relationships. So even if one were to concede that there wasn’t anything “wrong” with it, they’d still be faced with the facts that it increases the odds for divorce. Why is that?

“””You can have sex and not be living together what is the difference.”””

Really, by who’s standard? IMVHO both are sins. Let’s talk about sex for a moment. Sex changes the dynamics of the relationship especially when introduced to early just like shacking up changes the dynamics. IMVHO both of these things cause a rift in communication skills and as a man it then becomes very easy to revert to our primitive ways and feel that we’ve conquered our quest. Many then begin trying to dictate and control their bounty. We stop perusing and courting because we’ve already got our prize. When in fact, in a relationship that lasts a lifetime, the man and woman for that matter, only stop courting and perusing when they draw their last breath.

“””If we had not lived together then I would have never known what I know now.”””

I totally whole heartedly believe your placing the emphasis in the wrong area. IMVHO it should be on communication. Had you communicated properly y’all would have known this long ago. Communication is the key, how many times have you heard that? That y’all made it to this point without you discovering this about your GF absolutely puzzles me and says a lot about the level of communication in the relationship.

I strongly agree. We can twist and distort all we wish. What is it that we value most?

Being an avid Bible reader, and living it to the best of my ability as a sinner, submissive does not mean that a man expect his wife to perform in any manner that is hurtful or disrespectful to her feelings and/or Christian belief system; same goes for the man. The husband respects the wife. The wife respects the husband. Yes, there are roles that are traditionally upheld in the Bible sense; however, it sounds like we are not in that context. In addition, (why ask?) this is about husband and wife. Living together is not a viable option if we would like to get into "submissive" and "controlling" as it pertains to a healthy Christian-oriented belief system. JMHO.

So my question is ... what is/are you(r) goal(s)?


~ A Good Marriage = Eating a Lot of Humble Pie ~ ************************************************** If you went on trial for being a Christian, would there be enough evidence? ************************************************** ~ God listens to knee mail. ~
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“””I am sorry but what does IMVHO stand for?”””

In My Very Humble Opinion


“””What are those things?
Just knowing what a wife should do and what a wife should not do.”””

OK, here’s a little problem. No two people on this earth are created the same and as far as I know, none of us are mind-readers. That being said neither she nor I can read your mind as to what you think a wife should and shouldn’t do. As a matter of fact, what your wife should and shouldn’t do may not even closely resemble what my wife should and shouldn’t do. So that brings us to the foundation of any relationship that lasts, communication. You have to learn to effectively communicate your wants, needs, and desires.

“””What is your definition of her being submissive?
Submissive to me is if I am loving the way a husband is suppose then you should have no problem doing some of things I ask you. To me being submissive is if you are going to leave the house let me know where you are going.”””

The example you site, IMVHO, is not being submissive but rather being respectful. She seems to be grasping onto her independence but further there seems to be a certain lack of respect there. Do you know why that is?

”””My desire is not to come across as demanding or controlling, so I am willing to work me so that I don't become that kind of person”””

That’s great but also do this with your eyes wide open seeing what behavior of hers that you are willing to accept and which ones you are not. I would highly recommend some pre-marital counseling either through the church or through a professional. And no matter what, DO NOT GET MARRIED until y’all have these issues in check.


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I think you have a distorted view of healthy, biblical, marital submission. Not uncommon given some of the churches distortion and abuse of the passages in ephesians.

Submission in no way relates to control. So if your GF is feeling controlled, you can't dispute her feeling, because that's what she feels. And mutually respectful submission isn't controlling.

As to your other point about living together, we are called as well to not present ourselves in such a way that it might cause our weaker brothers to stumble. Certainly, the expectation is that if you're living together, you're having sex, sending a mixed message to those who are weaker in their faith, or still examining their own beliefs.

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I will say all of the comments have help me a great deal. Right now were are not talking about marriage we are working on communicating. Looking at what I can do verses trying to get her to see things my way has made things much better for us. There is a great outlook for us now, and definitly there will be counsling before we make the big step. As for as respect for me goes, part she is afraid that I am going to control her life so she has been hesitant to fully respect and allow herself to do much of anything, but even that is getting better with the help from this forum!!

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It's interesting you should ask that. As a woman who views submissiveness as being controlled, I will do my best to explain why I, myself, see it that way.

Submissiveness is to submit. When you submit, you are pushing aside your own wants and needs and allowing another to take the reigns whatever activity you are engaging in. In this case, that would be marriage.

If someone else has the reigns, they are in control.

Therefore, if a wife is submissive, she is not in control.

In addition, when I hear the word submit, I think of the following two things automatically:

1. To give up. To surrender. To lose hope.
2. A sub. A bottom. The reciever in a sado-masochistic relationship.

As you can see, the word submit in and of itself can carry a very negative and despondant meaning.

I hope you do not mean that you wish your fiancee to submit in this way, and from your post it appears that you just want her to do what you ask and are willing to do the same for her. How about instead of speaking to her about submissiveness, you speak to her about equal partnership?

Submissive is an unpleasant word (at least in my ears), and may not be the word you really meant to use.

-Doll

LostHusband #1509506 11/11/05 08:45 AM
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My girlfriend and I have been having this conversation for a while and I need to know if my views are correct. I believe that a married people should not have any secerets. When it comes to finances there is the question of one account verses seperate accounts. I don't have a problem with seprate accounts as long as both names are on the accounts. My girl friend feels otherwise she does not agree that both names should be on the account. I asked her why she told me that she has no problem with having a joint account, but she still wants a serperate account just for her on the side. She told me she feels like I just want to be noisy to have access to her spending account. She told me that it would not feel like her own account if my name was not on it. I think married people should share everything even there money. Please help me!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Tlove #1509507 11/11/05 10:49 AM
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I agree with you. We've always had joint accounts; no secrets, no "mine" versus "yours".

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Maybe you should encouarge her to be submissive in other ways? Such as letting you choose where you go on a vacation, or putting together a hobby you direct but she enjoys? Most women are used to being submissive that is good at looking like we enjoy being directed.

But actually it's not always true, and there are sometimes when we feel it's downright wrong to be that way-if we challenge a man there is a good reason.

Why not ask her directly next time she challenges you what is the matter honestly? And press her for a direct, honest answer. If she tries to brush it off as not having time, then say you are being honest you want to help her, and you need to know what is wrong. She will tell you what is wrong with you, but get her to tell you what is really bugging her. There has to be a job or work life condition that is bugging her and she may tell you what it is.

Women living with their loved one usually don't challenge him, unless-she feels there is an unequal relationship somehow in her life, it could be something else that you two don't want to discuss-but press her.

It's also easy to act out and say you are controlling me a lot, to start an argument. Not to be divisive it's just that women get in the habit of being submissive and then they see that and get mad at themselves.

Nat

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All of the post in this forum has helped me and my fiance make a decesion that was best for the both of us. We have decided that marriage would not be a wise move for us. There were so many major issues that we did not see eye to eye on. The beauty in all of this was we were able to come to this decesion without any bad feeling towards one another. I am also a fulltime father and I realize that I need a woman in my life that is willing to build a relationship with my daughter in spite of what my daugher says or thinks. My daughter is 5 years old and her mother is not active in her life but she knows who she is. And my daughter was going through a faze of telling my finance that why do people feel that you are my mother. My finance could not handle that,she does not have any kids of her own. My fiance started trying to get me to send my daughter to her mother. I tried to explain to my fiance that her mother is not in a position to raise my daughter in the same manner as I can, that is why she is with me. Some people feel no matte what a child should be with the mother and is not wise in all cases. Long story short we are not getting married we are making arrangement on the house we have together and we are good friends living together until the first of the year. Again thanks to all that have helped me in this forum <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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