Your 15 hours together are supposed to be having fun, not talking relationship.

I also suggest that you involve her in where the money goes from the sale of the house. Make her your partner.

I will try to involve her, but she says because I inherited it she won't discuss it. I offered to pay off all bills, answer NO, pay for her D, answer NO, pool, NO.

We rode around talked about kids, her job offer, another job offer she turned down. She just seems really sad, I would think that after all the D talk and everything else she would be happy. I guess I can't do anything right in her eyes. She asked for it, I finally caved, and now I'm the bad guy again. I haven't talked R or M at all today, just let her know that she was going to get her wish. Now she's unhappy. What's up with that??? Just because I file doesn't mean it will happen, just means I've got my ducks in a row. If all works out it is very easy to pull the plug. This is the same lawyer who told me to try and work it out as no one wins in a D. His advice made me want to fight harder for M, but I feel like I've been banging my head against a wall. So I'm very confused again. I should be used to it by now I guess.

You are posting on the divorce board. How can she be happy about that?

Personally, I think she is making much more effort than 95% of WS's do.

I would not use the money for a divorce or lawyer. What a waste! I would put it aside and wait until she can POJA with you about how to use it.

Come on eagle, you're a smart guy. Can you not see that his established relationship with you as IC could very well make him less than objective (either perceived or real) when dealing with both of you as MC? IMHO, it borders on unethical for one counselor to take on both roles. And I'm not so sure his wife ought to be her IC either. Way too close, IMHO.

I know if our MC started to take sides during our sessions either one of us would have been out the door.

I will check for a new MC, she hasn't to my knowledge checked for IC. Might help, might not. Can't hurt. I do believe that when he talked to her and heard what she had to say he was quite taken aback. In our lst meeting of MC he even stated that after hearing what she had to say he was surprised I even wanted to continue working on M.

I don't believe he was taking sides though as he has gunned me down in her presence as well.

Eagle, if obectivity is not the problem, then what do you think her issue is? Does it stem from the fact that she is so fogged out? The more fogged out, the more averse most WS's are to good counselors.[they want the mollycoddlers that tell them what they want to hear, of course] Harley is an excellent counselor but he manages to tick off the real fogged out, deluded WS'. Do you think that is the issue?

It could be. I have talked to Jennifer a couple of times, I asked W if she wanted to talk, as Jennifer would like to talk to her, but no pressure if she didn't want to talk that's OK, she said NO, then she saw the CC bill and was not happy. I would love to have her talk to Jennifer or Steve, but until I 0 bal a couple of CCs that's not going to happen this week, maybe next week, if I can get her to talk.

We talked this morning, I said I would like her to continue to post, she said her posts upset me so she won't, I said that is my problem and I will deal with it and I think posting helps. Don't know which way she will go, the pendulum swings to the extreme, never in the middle.

Mel,

If you read her last post it says it all. Poor little fat girl, never could attract the handsome, outgoing, rugged, jock. Now that she is thin, she attracted one, acted on it, and doesn't want to come back. The problem with that is that type of guy will eventually see the stretch marks, sagging breasts, etc... and drop her for a younger, firmer "hottie", but she can't see it. The Shallow Hal Syndrome"

Nothing I can do about it.

Eagle - You are in rare form the last couple of days - from a pound of liver to stretch marks and sagging breasts. Are you interested in saving your marriage, or getting "even" with your wife?

Saving. Just discussing issues. Not getting even, stating facts. At 39 most women are sagging or starting to, and after she lost enough weight to cause me to think maybe she was buleimic or annorexic, to cause me to ask if she was OK, how much more was she planning to lose or had she reached her goal, I was extremely concerned. My sister was visiting at the time also and asked if she was OK because she was so skinny.

My response to her weight loss was not what she wanted to hear. She expected me to look at her a a young thin Hottie, maybe what she never understood was I have always looked at her like that. I have never complained about her weight, I think her stretch marks are badges of courage for bearing our children, to be worn proudly. I understand that age causes parts to sag, I understand that age and responsibility causes us to get out of shape, and we can't do the things we used to do when we were 20.

I have always complemented her, thought she looked good, told her that the older she gets the better she looks, and I believed it then and I believe it now, I wouldn't say it if I didn't mean it. It's not what she wants to hear, and a 48 year old computer guy is obviously not what she wants.

When she had to go to Japan, we agreed that our marriage was strong enough, almost all of our friends agreed as well. I ahd no idea she was so unhappy until D-Day. One of her main causes of unhappiness and mine as well has been her insistance on having many male friends, yes she has tried to get me to be friends with them, but when I was on Active duty, I was TDY a lot, when I was home I wanted to spend time with her and kids, I didn't need to be out and be seen. I don't need to flirt to feel good about myself, I don't need other women to tell me I look good to feel good about myself. I only needed to please her and ahve her tell me to feel good about myself.

Apparently there is nothing i can do! Am I wrong here?

She is at the attorney's office as I type this. We talked during lunch, not much, but a little. She was deeply hurt by my response to her weight loss, but let me ask any of you, if you had NOT seen your S for 6 months, and they lost around 35lbs (not sure exactly, but it looked like a lot to me) would you be concerned? She wanted me to say Wow you look great, not "Honey are you OK, are you sick, do you have cancer?" I was deeply concerned and worried about her weight loss and her health, I guess I really blew it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Eagle-

You know what...there are ways of saying things, and then there are other ways of saying things.

Look at how you phrased the things you said earlier about your wife. Nothing in there in any way meant to be uplifting, caring, loving, constructive, etc...

Nope...you DELIBERATELY chose words that were hurtful, negative, disrespectful, etc...

I tried to make this point earlier to both of you, and it's very clear by both of your threads that neither of you at this point is emotionally mature enough to take in the data. I swear, your thread and hers just reminds me of a pair of sixth-graders trying to hurt each other! All EITHER of you do is attack the other...not once have I seen a single kind, thought out comment on either thread.

At this point, unless one or more of you can grow up a little, I can't offer you any further advice or hope. At this point, neither one of you truly care about trying to REPAIR YOUR MARRIAGE AND FAMILY...you're more concerned with getting the last, most hurtful comment in. When/if you can get past this point, please send a shout out on the board and I'd be glad to offer whatever advice I can then.

Sheesh!

I would want my H to say, "WOW! Baby you look GREAT!" So yea, from a womans perspective, you blew that one.
Maybe somebody can answer me this question...Is the purpose of Plan A sort of like that old adage.."You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vineger?"
If that be the case, Do you have cancer wouldnt be in the honey catagory. Neither would your signature line.

But these are my observations from a saggy boob, over 40 stretched out mom. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Eagle, can you email me please.

OMG, that is so bad I am speechless! CHUCK!

Mel,

She had, in my opinion, great curves before she lost any weight, I didn't ask her to lose weight, never ever said she was fat or even hinted at it because I never thought she was fat. When I saw her after being away from her for around 6 mos, I was shocked. My sister was also shocked. It really did appear that she had a problem, at least to me, she felt she looked great and after the intial shock wore off I thought so too, but I was worried about her health and scared of losing her to an illness. I have appologized for that ever since, but apparently it didn't and doesn't make a difference.

My sig line has changed due to her strong desire for a D.

I understand honey vs vineagar, but understand I had not seen her for almost 6 months, she lived in OKC, and I live in Huntsville, just moved there in April with a teen daughter and pre teen son. Her weight loss was dramatic for me. She could have been on a commercial for weight loss products, you know the ones that have the disclaimer on the bottom that say this weight loss is not typical for everyone. The commercials that make you get your credit card out right now and order in the next 5 minutes whether or not there is a bonus. Her weight loss was very dramatic for me and a little tramatic.

Imagine your H being gone for 6 mos, yes you talk to him a couple of times a day, you are aware he is on a diet, and when he gets home he looks like the guy on the bowflex commercial. Like I said before she was not fat, she was under the AF standards for her age and height, but she wasn't happy.

Now for you guys imagine your wife, being gone for 6 mos, yes you talk to her a couple of times a day, you are aware she is on a diet, and when she gets home she looks like a skinny Hale Berry. I was very worried and concerned for her health.

I have never had an issue with my Ws weight, she has always looked good to me. The AF on the other hand did, she is now where she wants to be weight wise. It has always been her issue, I've worried about her weight loss though and sometimes the extremes whe went through to lose weight and meet the AFs standard, this is why I was concerned about her health. Laxatives, body wraps, sauna's, etc...

What more can I say. If I had been ridding her about her weight then yup I'm getting just what I deserved, but I have always thought she looked great and told her so often.
Sorry, I'm all screwed up.

I can understand you being concerned for her weight loss and it being a shock to you. But being the ripe old age you are, you should know that you dont say to your wife you havent seen in 6 months...Are you sick? Do you have cancer? when you should be huggin her and tellin her how great she looks! Those questions could have waited a day or two or never. Even my teenage boys knew you didnt say stuff like that to girls.

Yes, I am giving you a hard time over this one deal. But being that I am an AF wife and my WH just retired...I can see the military strictness all over your marriage. In both of you. Are you retired now, sir? And were you a senior NCO? Just curious. Your list of things you had for her to do reminded me of the numerous af rules and regulations.
Do you think you have brought a lot of your job home with you to your marriage? I mean, do you sometimes see your wife as one of your airman since she is AF as well? Know what I mean? Instead of seeing and treating her with tenderness of a lover and friend instead of her CO?

I am not judging you here. I just wondered if you have thought of these things.

Cathy

Yes I have thought of these things, and yes I am a retired MSgt, last 6 years working at a MAJCOM HQ. I have inspected places and people, I don't think I look at my W as one of my airmen, could be though.

I can't say for sure I said "do you have cancer, she just told me that today. I probably did say it though.

I have always been very direct and to the point, always been told my tact and diplomacy was not what it could be, when Colin Powell was Sec State, a few folks told me not to hold my breath for a job offer from him.

In a jam and when the chips are down though I have always been the go to guy if you want the plain unvarnished truth and want something fixed.

I dearly love my wife, but can't tell her because it makes her mad. I have never held back from her, she has always known how much I love her, not just with words, but in actions and deeds. She has never doubted my love for her, on D-Day and after until she said ILY was over the top, she never had to wonder where I stood or where she stood in our relationship. She is and was the love of my life, we always talked about growing old together, sitting on the porch holding hands, floating in the pool together when we retired, etc... She is 39, I'm 48, we talked about and I have tried to set up my retirement plan so when I retire she can to.

I have always held her in high esteem, even when we were dating she never had to question where my heart was. If you go to her thread ask her about a retirement we went to when we were at Patrick AFB NCO Club, when we were dating. Her girlfriends wanted to knock a girl out, she knew no matter how hard the other girl tried I wouldn't even notice her. She had to tell me about it after we got home. I had no idea what was going on, I just knew I was with her and took care of her, brought her food and drink, checked on her regularly to be sure her glass was not empty and if she needed anything. I would still do that for her today if we went anywhere.

My point here is I did not mean to make her mad I was and am truly concerned for her and her health.

No excuses though I have screwed the pooch in a very serious and bad way. I know now I can't fix this and apparently I will not recover from it.

You CAN recover from it. If you LEARN from it, and quit making the same mistake over and over and over and over.

Look, you're not acting here...you are simply reacting.

I'm ex-military. Ex-Army NCO myself. So you and I both know that you never do ANYTHING without a plan. And that you don't just have one plan, but several.

And...unless something CHANGES that plan, you don't deviate from it regardless of what someone tries to do to get you to do so.

I see no plan here. There is no plan here on how to make it through this. All I see is two people taking shots at each other.

Stop taking shots at her...even if she takes them at you.

Get your plan together...if you had one, re-visit it and re-shore it up. Start taking into account the things you've learned about her, and work out a better plan. Start ACTING according to your plan, and simply REACTING to everything she says/does.

If your plan remains to just sit there and react emotionally to every single thing she says and does, then you're right, you have no hope of recovery. Because neither of you are truly willing to do the WORK it takes to get there.

Sure, you're tired of the fight. But you know what, you're wasting more energy taking these cheap shots at her and at REACTING than you are fighting. You're like a boxer who gets in the ring and just swings and swings and swings...no plan, no strategy...just trying to block and counter punch his way through 10 rounds. That is the fastest way to wearing yourself to exhaustion.

So...what's the plan? Or are you just giving up?