I donno if it's all that "wise" ... simply observant to what is repeated over and over and over with just about every affair I know about

This sums up affair drive: "He/she made me like myself."

[color:"red"]RED FLAG [/color]

Adults ought to like themselves if they are doing likeable things.

Affairs are very UNlikeable.

The self one finds to "like" during an affair is false because the source is false.

Good line, one to remember.

((Hurting))

I don't know what to tell you. Of course, I would talk to WH, but I have a habit of talking to my WH trying to make him feel, see or realize something. It just doesn't work, but I don't get very frustrated with it anymore. I know why I do it, I decide before hand if I can handle the failure and then I make the call. Remember though, I am insane, doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

I think your WH knows this is not what you want. And if WH was a man that had the strength to pull his own head out of his a$$, he could stop this divorce. That is one reason I didn't want to file, my WH will never try to stop the D, he wants to be the victim and he will just let it ride no matter how he feels about it.

I am tired of repeating myself to my WH (finally!). I have told him I will either have a great M or as good as a D as I can get - his choice. You WH knows what you want, his silence is saying he is not man enough to make you happy. He is still full of selfish pride and justification.

I know that you will be OK after this, and I still have that feeling that somewhere down the road, you WH will want to come back to you and your life. I don't know if you will still want him then, but I think he will regret it and you will know it and you will have the peace that throwing you away was not as easy as he tried to make it look.

((Hurting))

PEP...THAT WAS AMAZING..READ IT 2X.

You're so right.

and that totally describes the relationship b/w my xh and is present w/the xow. Andit's crumbling just as you described.

Hurting...time happens. Harleys say it takes 2 years for affairs to bust up. Could be from exposure date...can be from court date..can be from date D papers are signed...but it is this and is clear.

When the fogged waywards realize they are in their perceptions "in the clear" with their new romance (all other marriage partners gone, etc), the TWO YEAR CLOCK BEGINS TICKING.

And it has begun for your WH.

You're lucky Hurting. 1)YOU know the truth. YOU know what WILL HAPPEN TO THEM...HE DOESN'T. 2)You have done enothing to compromise your belief system 3)you have grown tremendously.

And you will be considered very very attractive to either WH or ANOTHER MAN when you're ready to be. And WH will realize it when the reflection ofhimself he views in the OW is slipping away..that she is simply "not all that".

The affair dynamics still are so freaky to me. They are indeed based on prinicples pep said. I see it first hand. It's either Love/Hate. Can't be both. And it certainly cannot be COMFORTABLE LOVE. It is always in a state of turmoil. It is either passion or hatred. Or passion or nothing. I don't see my xh and ow beign able to sit down together on a saturday morning and read the sunday paper and discuss it. I don't see the peaceful images I used to know being a part of their existence.

But you will be better off either way. You have to trust and believe this!

And it's unsure which darn affair wristwatch is being worn by the WS. If it's the "two years since d day" clock, or the "2 years since separation" clock, or the "2 years since divorce" clock...but one things' for sure. His clock is ticking away.

My question to you...Being that you are new, improved, and gettin' better every day...HAVE YOU THOUGHT THAT THIS IS UP TO YOU? Really.

Because Hurting,

Where you will be when his clock stops is his problem. You will one day have choice of either WH or somebody better. And he will be the one having to deal wtih that. Trust me..it happens.

I did read that very carefully and I totaly understand it.

What makes it even more sad is the fact that our marriage will be over and done before he or she realizes what this is all about. That is if he ever realizes it.

He is sacraficing his whole life for this and just does not see it. Its so sad that someone could be so far in the fog they can't see the sacrafice they are making for someone who really isn't what they appear to be....

I know I will be ok ... I will make it through this and take care of me and my children. Thats all I can do...

It will be hard to not try and save him as I know he is going to fall at some point but I have to let him fall...

Yes, hurtin' you have to let him fall. As Pep said, you can't control what he does. I am sorry that your state allows D to happen so quickly.

How is your DD doing with the BF and the pregnancy and all that stuff?

Avoid desperate talks with WH.

If you decide to speak to him ... what is your goal?

Be VERY clear and honest with yourself about any goal (or hope, expectation, etc) that is attached to your desire to have a "talk".

.... and then really take inventory of your ability to detach any expectations of a particular outcome after the "talk". ( as in how disappointed will you feel if the talk does nothing you desire it to do)

If your only goal is to allow yourself a voice, go right ahead. But beware of any goal that cannot be met unless WH makes a change. He's too lost.

And remember, your WH is lost to his sense of self and identifies with reflections off other people ... and right now, the reflected sense of self WH gets from you is not attractive. Adulterors are ugly in their deeds. No getting around that fact.

I wish I could say were I will be once this all comes crumbling down.

For right now I still hope I am at the place of wanting him back. But I guess that all depends on how long it takes and what is going on in my life when it happens.

For now I can honestly say this my Love Bank is far from being empty. Believe it or not as flawed as my planb has been, I did do it in enough time to save a lot of my love for him. Even knowing this divorce is looming over my head has not depleated it much.

Now I do know as time moves on it will slowly leak out and maybe by the time comes he falls nothing will be left. Then that will be his problem not mine.

You know i was talking to my MIL last night and I said to her you know in June this will be a year already. The time has actually gone pretty fast. I can't believe he has been gone for 7 months already. Some days it seems forever and some days seems like yesterday.

Peach your right his clock is ticking and he does not even realize it. At least I have some idea of what the future holds, he has no clue except for what is in his foggy mind.
To bad his is all delusional and mine is reality.

I will make it, I will be alright..... He on the other hand won't be..... Wish I didn't feel so sorry for him ....

You know Pep what you just said is something I have thought of.

Part of me says well maybe if I tell him what I feel it will kncok him out of the fog.

But the other part of me knows this won't happen. It will just make me look weak and needey to him. It will only give him the idea that I am still on the string and he can divorce me and I will still be waiting around like a lost puppy.

This is not the impression I want him to have at all. Maybe deep down inside me its true but I don't need or want him to know that.

I know he knows how I feel. He knows I don't want a divorce and he knows I still love him. I don't think I need to repeat those things to him. It would do nothing for me because I know how he will respond to it. It would do nothing but hurt me again.

I want him to see me as a strong person, who can and will make it without him. Someone who will not bend to his will or threats. So maybe not talking to him is the best thing to do....

I feel very sorry for him. He's not a bad man. He is in so much pain.

Imagine a war within yourself where your core values have had a head-on 100 MPH collision with your behavior. We're talking blood and guts of his wounded soul!

If you decide to talk with him ... may I suggest this as a topic .... [i] Speak to him about HIS pain. Tell him "You must be in so much pain." .... offer him understanding that HE is hurting. This will be UNexpected and he may have no response. If he tries to blame his pain on you, say "It is no pleasure to me you are in so much pain."

Wow Pep, you are on a roll this morning! That is great!

I could see how that would be so different than what I have been doing. I have been talking about my reality, which WH doesn't give a ratt's butt about. But it is so obvious that my WH is confused and lost, being empathetic would probably be much more effective.

Thank you God for sending me to this board.

Thank you God for all the wise and caring people who are here helping others to be strong.

Dear God, please give Hurting strength to get through this hurtful time.

Dear God, please send a lightning rod to strike her WH and knock some sense into him - soon !! We are running out of time here.

And, Dear God - can you send some rain to Texas - now !!!

Carnation

I don't really expect to talk to him. I am pretty sure he would not talk to me at this point. He probably feels that I would try and talk him out of this and he don't want to hear it.

I know he is not a bad man, he is a lost man who has no idea what to do. So he is following the lead of someone who has an agenda. He is to blind and fogged out to see that.

I do wish I had a way of being able to say things to him that meant something but I don't. I thought of writing him a letter. No necessarliy a love letter but a letter of hope and letting go. A letter that lets him know I still care but accept his choices. I don't know if such a thing exsists. Something he can read again if he wants to.
I just would not know how to go about writting it.

To be honest saying anything face to face would probably be more destructive to me than him. I don't need more destruction in my life, I have had enough...

Tahnks Carnation for the wonderful prayer.... It means so much .....

I understand .... but keep my little suggestion in your back pocket in case of any available moment where you may be thrown together by accident.

And you mentioned this



OW agenda is almost identical to your WH .... She is lost to her authentic self, looking for self validation of her worth through the eyes of another ... some people take this to a pathological level, and it becomes a life-style. (FaithfulFollower's and Spidey's husbands are examples <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> )

When there is a history of molestation in a woman's childhood, they are often drawn to serial affairs... searching endlessly. Like Dorothy in Wizard of Oz .... 'cept serial OW never finds "home" ... her authentic self.

You know Pep funny you mention a history of molestation.

I don't know what her childhood was like but I do know at some point in time she had been raped twice. Now these are her words so I actually have no proof it happened.

In some ways I have often wondered if she is looking for someone she feels can protect her from this sort of thing. She has gone to so many different men searching and looking. For some reason though my husband seems to be the one she feels is her savior I guess. For the 4 years I have known her this is the longest relationship she has had. But I will say most of the time the other men have been the ones to walk away from her. A few I spoke to said it was because of how she latchs on and won't let them breath.

Now my WH felt I had pulled away and gave him no affection of the feeling he was alone.( Which by the way is true to some point ) So I guess her needieness and latching on is something he was looking for because I was not that way.

So maybe they have both foubnd what they w ere looking for .. her a savior and him someone who needs him and won't let go....

I just don't know ....

I'd take Pep's suggestion another direction:

BS: Ws, sorry to see u r in such pain.

Ws: What pain?

BS: The one showing all over your face.......hope u get better.

Then walk away....remember you can't teach a WS but you can make them wonder. They still a have brain but it isn't functioning at full capacity. However, curiousity runs high because they are in the state of constantly having to wonder what is going on with them and around them (remember the fog?!?!?).

I did this with my WS. Kept putting him in a quandry. Remember it is your H you feel sorry for NOT the WS. Don't give your sorrow to the WS, save it for your H.

L.

WH and the bimbo will be here in about 30 mins. to pick up DD and her b/f for lunch.

It will be the first time DD'S b/f will meet WH. B/F knows the situation we are in and is behind me all the way. I have told him he will like WH as he is a good man but just lost.

I am ready to leave the house to go to a friends so he can change my oil in the car and I can visit with his wife. I made sure I look good and happy. I know this is crazy but I feel like walking out of the house when WH shows up just so he can see how good I look and so OW can see it to. Just get in my car and leave without a word....

I told DD not to tell him where I am or who I am with. Can she can tell him I am getting the oil changed by a friend but thats it. Not who or where....

Maybe its playing games I don't know but what have I got to loose now..... Plus it makes me feel good to think he will wonder.... Maybe he won't but I'll never know....

Orchid,

See thats what I was thinking because if I was to say something to him about the pain that would be the responce I would get from him. I have no doubt. Great comeback to say to him..... I will remember it.... Thanks

U need to get strong enough t/b able to handle interactions. IMHO u also need to bring your children up to speed sooner. Holding back info from them now will only hurt them and you.

U need to be a single family unit. One fighting machine against the A.

So tell me, why does he keep taking your D out to eat? Is it because he isn't giving the family enough $$? Hm..... gotta bring that up in court.

BS: U R aware that the WS tends to play favorites.....he has repeatedly taken his daughter and even her BF along with the OW out to lunch, dinner, etc. but not his son. Not sure why he is being emotionally cruel to his son.....we all wonder.

Yea, practice so when you do speak it is packed with a whollop.

L.