Just got off the phone with my attorneys office. WH did it he filed the divorce papers.

Funny part is though there is no court date. I asked the attorney when do we go to court , he said there is no court date. I asked why? He said because they didn't request one.
I asked was this unusual he said yes but it happens sometimes.

Why would they not request a court date? I don't understand this...

We do have court on Jan.11 for a resolution meeting due to my LS papers. He said we will meet at court with him and his attorney and discuss what we both want and if we should leave this as LS or go for divorce.

I'm not sure what to do now......

My mom thinks not court date was selected because he wants a reaction out of me..... I don't know but I do know it makes no sense.....


I knew this would probably happen but it still hurts no matter how I tried to be prepared.....

Oh Hurting!

I'm so sorry that it's come to this...

{{{{Hurting}}}}

Hurting, I'm sorry to hear this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> It may be a date has not been set yet due to your H job, he has to figure a day he can take off of work.

Lady

Thank you Cat......

I still can't believe he is going to throw away our whole lives like this.... 24 yrs of marriage gone like that ...

It really hurts bad

Lady as far as that goes it really does not matter. All he has to do is ell them at work when he needs to be in town and they will get him back..... The court won't work around his scheduale he has to work around the judges...

{{{{{{{{hurtinginOK}}}}}}}}}}

I am so sorry for your pain. I feel very bad for you. Don't read too much into the no date thing. Probably some sick strategy of the other Atty or something. I wish I could offer you something to hold on to.

I will pray for you though and right now. All our love (the appropriate kind <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) pours out to you and others like you.

What do you mean? You are not divorced! This is hardly the end.

Mel ,

I wish I could believe that ..... My mom keeps saying its only a piece of paper and a lot of money wasted.... She still believe he will come home .... I want so much to believe it myself... But I have got to try and accept this just in case that never happens.....

How can you believe something that hasn't happened? Hurting, this is far from over, it is just part of the process. There is no difference in your situation today than there was yesterday. Seriously.

(((Hurting)))

I just don't believe it is over yet either. My H and I were separated for over two years, papers drawn up several times, we were just to cheap to file. Everyone actually thought we were already divorced.

If your WH wants to D you, so be it. But that doesn't mean that you H is gone forever.

Mel,

I know your right, it just feels so final with him actually filing the papers.

I know its not done and over yet.... I wish I knew what to say or do at the mediation meeting... Do i go along with him or what ????

I don't want this divorce but how can I stop him???? I don't think I can ..... I don't know what to do

Jean, I know your right as well , thats what my mom keeps telling me .... Its only a piece of paper means nothing....

{{{{{Hurting}}}}}

It really doesn't make sense. All I know is I am tired of him continually breaking your heart. You are a good woman, and have done all to save your marriage, and I know you will continue to do your best whatever may happen. I wish I was there to give you a big hug. May God help you and comfort you Hurting.

Blessings,
Lady

I aggree with Mel. Don't give up.

Hurting, During a LS, is it required that the other spouse countersue. Or is that only on a divorce filing?

Lady

I don't want to give up ..... I just don't see what I can do now .....

Now I know I have to see him on Jan. 11 .... How am I going to handle that? I don't want to agree to a divorce but do I have any choices about it? Nope don't think so ....

I really don't know what else to do ....

No Lady its not required. After I filed the LS he had the divorce papers drawn up but decided against signing them.

So they answered the petition of LS and we came to an agreement. Now since he decided to file the divorce he didn't have to sign the LS papers but he is still has a court order against him to pay the CS and SS.

So basiclly we are in limbo until the 11 and its decided if it will be LS or divorce.... I know what my vote is but I don't think it will count much.... He can get this divorce without me agreeing....

I wonder if OW found out he didn't file it and pushed it some more.... The no court date thing still has me baffled though .... When they filed the LS we knew that day when the court date was. They set the court date the day its filed....

No Hurting, do not agree on divorce. Your attorney will know how to handle that. He knows you are trying to save your marriage, not divorce. He needs to tell the judge what your plans have been all along. You only filed for legal sep. because your H is having an affair, out of the house, and not taking care of any financial responsiblilities. But you never wanted divorce. You want him to come home and reconcile the marriage.

Lady

Lady,

Thats what I am gong to say but I doubt it will make any difference. About all that will do is piss WH off even more but at this point who cares....

I don't know the law but I would think he could get the divorce without my agreeing.... I have no clue .... This is something i am going to find out for sure..

I don't know if he could either, but you keep your words. You will not agree to divorce.

Lady

oklahoma

i'm so sorry that this has happened

i know that no matter what anyone says, it still feels as though it is another nail in the coffin

it is the thing that i am dreading next and i don't know how i will deal with it

except i DO know I will not agree to the divorce...they can force it upon me but it will happen with me saying that i love my H and want to save my marriage

tell your lawyer this if it's how you feel

{{{{HURTING}}}}


I agree with Mel on this one, it isn't over. I will keep you in my prayers. Don't give up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eav,

Not to worry thats what I will be saying as this ship sinks. I will never agree and it may be forced upon me but he will know and the court will know this is not my wish and I still love my H.

Worldofthelost,

I won't give up... Even if this happens I still won't give up hope that it can be worked out... Maybe I'm a fool for still wanting our marriage and him but I won't give up yet...

Thanks to all of you for your support and prayers.....

Hurting - Don't agree to the divorce. It is always harder to get a divorce if one party contests it. I would also ask him for spousal support for you to get training for a better job. Make if MORE difficult for him.

I'm sure OW has been hounding him to file.

Believer,

I am not going to agree at all. Not sure what that will do but I am doing it.

Oh yeah I am going to go for it all if he really wants this I am going to try for everything i can get..

I agree I think OW fond out he didn't file and has been on him about it... I just find it funny no court date though... Maybe one will be made on the 11th who knows... Maybe him and his attorney thought I would cave then and make this easy for him ..... Not happening

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> which will lead to resentments, which will lead to LOVEBUSTERS! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We can only HOPE Mel......

I pray thats what has been happening.....

okie, it's ok to be a little upset, we fully understand that. But whatever you do, don't start talking about throwing in the towel because Mimi is around this week! There is he11 to pay when she sees any surrender talk!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

{{{{{{Hurting}}}}}}
I wish I could hop on a plane right now and come give you a big hug and help you paint, etc.

I want to offer you some hope. The divorce filing does not have to mean anything. More than likely it is his way of trying to sell property, etc. and/or at the urging of his attorney. Here is a link I found for Oklahoma divorce law. Of course, I would consult your attorney but it may put some of your questions at ease.
http://www.morelaw.com/articles/oklahomadivorce.htm


Time for Final Order Where Minor Children Involved-Waiver-Educational Program-Exceptions

A. 1. In an action for divorce where there are minor children involved, the court shall not issue a final order thereon for at least ninety (90) days from the date of filing the petition which ninety (90) days may be waived by the court for good cause shown and without objection by either party.

2. The court may require that within the ninety-day period specified by paragraph 1 of this subsection, the parties attend and complete an educational program specified by Section 107.2 of this title.

It appears you have at the very least 3 three months. It also appears the court may order counseling.

Hurting, my husband filed 2 months after D-Day. I was completely and utterly devestated. Guess what? Our divorce may be final (I'm awaiting papers) and NOW he is turning around. He was here today and told me what a [censored] he was. He is in turmoil and is trying to find a way back to me. AND he was SURE divorce was what he wanted. And he did a heck of a job convincing me. I never posted even though I lurked because I thought my sitch was different. I thought, well, these people's WS's haven't filed for divorce. Even if you get a divorce, it's not over until it's OVER. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I don't know if it makes you feel any better, but you have the love and support of all of us here.

{{{{{{{{{Hurting}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Mel,

I am not throwing in the towel. I just need to figure out how to handle this... What to say what to do ....

I want my H home ..... or at least away from the OW ...

I just don't know what to do now. What can I do or say to show him its worth saving and trying.....

I need some serious help here ....

Should I continue to stay dark? Do I not repsond to this in anyway.... Do I act like I don't care .... what ????

Shattered, thank you so much for telling her that!!

Here is what you do. Go paint your toenails a pretty color of red and perhaps shampoo your carpet today? Another suggestion would be to go rent Season 1 of Desperate Housewives and have yourself a good ole time catching up!

As far as your H goes, nothing has changed and there is nothing for you to do. He is probably hoping to get a huge reaction out of you. Don't deliver, ok?

Hurting, I'm sure you're angry and have a lot of questions. But there are still lots of options from where you are...
Here's my experience with the filing in cali; when my W's lawyer filed 14 mo ago, there was no court date... At least nothing that I was notified about. Unfortunately in cali, as in many states, only one party is needed to file and finalize a divorce, the only thing a spouse that want to reconcile can do is force a 6 mo mandatory reconciliation "therapy" period before it can be finalized.

Shattered ,

Thank you thank you for that post.

I hope and pray thats how things can go for me....

It does give me hope things can turn around....

Well I hope the 90 days thing works out that gives 3 more months for this to affair to fizzle out.....

All I ever wanted was a chance to work on our marriage and he never even tried. And let me tell this OW is a wack job, but he does not see it.....

Again thank you for your positive post.....

Stu,

We have a minor child so we have to go to court or mediation, it isn't that easy with kids involved.... Thank goodness... I am telling my attorney I don't want to agree and we will go from there...

Mel,

I am not repsonding in any way.... My mom says he prbably wants you to call him crying and begging.... I will not do that .....

Oh believe me, he WILL. With you out of the picture and no longer available for demonization, the focus will turn to the many flaws in loveland. And OW does not have the benefit of MB and will start lovebusting.

Hope it starts soon......

Amen, should you or should you not tell the children he has filed? How should you handle that with them? You know every reaction you have in front of the children will get back to him somehow.

Lady

i aggree with Mel. Let the crap fall all around them with you out of the picture. Nothing could be sweeter than to see OW LB and it is bound to happen. Don't do Divorce. Keep doing Marriage. Stay strong.

It ain't over.

you know what stinks oklahoma?

our H have 2 people that want them (so does OW) they have a place to go and someone to be with...they have a choice

we don't

we end up alone

Lady,

DS does not know yet. I am not telling him, if his dad wants him to know he can tell him.

DD knows though she was there when the phone call came. She just said I am sorry mom. To be honest I don't thinkshe cares one way or another. So I am going to keep my feelings to myself and this board.

I don't want him to know anything I am feeling... He knows this is not what I want and I would be willing to bet he thinks I will call him. I do want to strangle him though, he is being so stupid ......

Eav,

Your right about that , but like everyone keeps reminding us it ain't over till its over .....

Keep praying and having faith..... Hards to do but thats all we have for now....

Keep trying to make our lives happy , now that may take me a day or two since this news but I will continue to try ....

{{{Hurting}}},

Sorry to hear about WH filing, but like they say, "it ain't over till it's over" and even then it's still not over. Okay I added the last part myself b/c I've seen it happen to many times where couples were almost D and reconciled or D and remarried.

I know here in MO we all (STBXWH, kids and I) have to go to a class on separating/divorcing parents. Since you have DS that is under 17 do you guys have to go to that in OK?

I will continue to pray for you.

Me too!! Lets all put our hands out and strangle him today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Hurting - Just wanted to offer my support. I log on each day to read a few on going stories and yours is one of them. You are a classy lady! Hold your head high because you have done all the right things.

To me, this SMELLS LIKE CATERING TO THE DEMANDS OF THE OW....

I still say that the A is SELF-DESTRUCTING...

and they are STRUGGLING to make it work...

I may, of course, be wrong...

But, I say, to make sure to SIT BACK..DON'T REACT..LET THEM CRASH AND BURN ON THEIR OWN..

DO NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO BECOME A TOPIC OF DISCUSSION....

DARK, DARK, DARK.....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Lashell,

I am not sure about that .... I know they have them but it has to be court ordered. Maybe with me not wanting the divorce that could happen I don't know....

Lost,

I wish I felt as classy as you say. I have tried so hard to do the right things but so far its gotten me nowhere but here. At least I can say I did try and won't have any regrets. WH will never be able to say that.... And I do believe that one day this will hit him and he will realize what a fool he has been... By then though it may be to late for us.... I can't imagine what its going to take f or him to see the reality of what he is doing....

I am making my list now of things to tell the attorney at my meeting on the 4th of Jan. I am going to go for the gusto..... Alimony, CS, his 401k and anything i can think of to make him pay big bucks..... He wants this he is gonna pay ...... I still will stand for my marriage but I am going to cover my butt as well just in case I can't stop it or drag it out .....

Did you see my post? I think we were posting at the same time..

Not to worry Mimi I am doing nothing , responding in any way .....

I think it is her pushing as well but we really don't know for sure..... He may truly be happy but I seriously doubt it...

I am just going to sit back and prepare my case if its needed.

I will admit i am scared this may really happen but if it does in the scope of things it really means nothing... He could still wake up someday and see what he has lost compared to what he gained....

yeah I saw it ....

(((((Hurting)))))

I'm sorry that its come to this point.

DON'T GIVE UP. It's not over until the final decree. Up until that point the petition can be dropped. This is far from over.

We're all pulling and praying for you here.

Thank you Walking I appreciate everyones prayers...

I keep praying this will all still work out ......

Ok I have been reading on Okla. divorce laws and can its so confusing. I am not sure if there is anything I can do besides contest to drag it out. But that would mean more money I don't have to pay a lawyer.

When we go to this mediation thing what should i do not agree to anything and make it go in front of the judge or what?

Oh and I looked on line, the papers were filed Dec. 22..... my attorney just got them today.... So he filed it before christmas.... And from what I see the judge is the one who ordered the mediation thing so I guess thats why there is no court date. The judge signed off on the mediation thing on this morning.... So I guess if we don't come to an agreement then a court date will be set.....

Sorry to hear this.

Just a few points, do they have alienation of affection grounds (which you file against the OP) in OK? Is it still on the books? If so,worth a try. Also, when you counter file, name the OW...name her in the papers. There is nothing like exposure in the courthouse and in permanent documents...so do it!

And nothing will happen at first meeting. YOu can tell your attny to disagree with most everything thus focing things to go to trial. Incidentally, my xh tried to get me to drop OW's names in the docs...i did NOT.

HIs waffling a few weeks ago and her recent antics may have brought this to a head.

Can't you see it now? The made up phone calls? His waffling? It is HER pushing! I see it clearly. She is getting desperate and is "if you love me, then you'll do it" now.

Stay dark. Let your lawyer do the best they can for you and in the courtroom the truth is NOT a LB! Personally I think OW has a few skeletons in the closet that might be worth looking at legally.

Peachy,

Nope Okla. does not have alienation of affection , they abolished that law.

Should i counter file? I mean this is going to cost me more money that I have. And in reality what would it get me? Just more anger from WH is about it.....

As far as mediation goes I don't plan on agreeing to anything.... My plan is to go in saying I don't want the divorce.....

I feel OW is pushing really hard and WH is going along for the ride. But in reality I can prolong this but the only thing it will do drag out the inevitable. If he wants it bad enough its going to happen. I am just not sure what to do ....

I do believe in time this will all come back and bite him in the a$$ but nothing I can really do about it .

Then again on the off chance this is really what he wants and is happy nothing I do will change it it all.....

Do I want to put myself through more pain or do I just let it happen ad see what happens down the road? I really don't know what to do .....

As far as finding skeletons on th OW how would I go about that?????

My MIL just came down. She is so upset right now.... She can't believe he is doing this....

Bu she said for some reason she just see him actually going all the way with htis...

She says its all that Bi**h's fault , she is pushing him, he is so confused he does not know what to do ....

Bles this woman , she is so wonderful ... she said and if he thinks OW will ever be welcomed in our family he is so wrong ..... You know what I believe her she has so much hate for this woman and her feeling for WH are pretty bad right now..... I think he has really done it now ..... I am not sure if his mom will ever get over this .... She will love him but as far as feeling the same about him I just don't see it for a long time coming .... He has treated her almost as bad as he has me ....

Hi Hurting,

Sorry to hear about the new developments.... although I do agree with everybody who says that it really does not mean anything....it just tells you that he is still a WS... nothing more nothing less...

If you still want to continue hoping for your H to come back one day.... this should not make a big difference...

it just means that the 'balancing act' continues... how not to lose hope while at the same time... not stop living....

Hang in there my friend... who knows what the future really holds for us!

HUGS.

Hurting you are so lucky to have a great and honourable MIL. I should be so lucky! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hurting imvho, you should include OW by name. THis is not an LB. THis is relaity. And consequences for her actions. And as far as the finances? WHy not ask if you can request that your WS pay for your legal bills?

fyi, in Canada where I am, the OP can be forced to pay between 1/3 and 1.2 of MY court costs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Worth checking into it? You can only ask.

Fighting ,

We have requested he pay the legal fees when I filed the LS.

He has more means that I do thats for sure... If I decide to counterfile I am going to name her no doubt. I am going to talk to my attorney and see what he says.

Luna,

I am still holding on to that thin sliver of hope. Not sure why but I am. I maybe a fool but something deep inside says this is not over yet and he is walking a thin line right now. Guess only time will tell ....

((( Hurting )))

I actually just got down on my knees and prayed to God to bring you some peace.

I will do anything that I can to ease your pain. I know it hurts so much.

My best regards - Carnation

When people suggest "naming" the other woman in a counterfile, is that just meant as another way of "outing" her or making publical her involvement in the divorce? I am assuming so.

I don't think there would be any other legal recourse?

Am I missing something, or is this just what everyone means by "naming" her.

Sorry for the dumb question...just confused.

Lem

I guess lem its to make it public knowledge .... But its already that anyway all our friends and family know...

I am just going to talk to my attorney and see what he says to do ..... Not sure if countersuing would be in my best interest anyhow ...

I just don't know if stalling would do any good or not ... If he really wants this its going to happen either way... Stalling would just prolong my pain and I am not sure I want to do that ..

Let me tell you what's going to happen also as it did in my case and my atty told me happens so often...

When he and his attorney get down to crunching the numbers, your WH will be shocked at how much of "his assets" you will walk away with and how expensive the whole mess is. I think in that wacked out brain they develop during the A, they think divorce means that the wife would just disappear into the sunset.

When he realizes this divorce will set him back financially-badly and now that he's staring his 50's right in the face, there's little time to recoup. He'll be devastated.

He'll be mad but his attorney will remind him that this division of assets is standard. You'll get the anger at first but then reality will set in.

He'll go home to look at what has cost him so much and wonder if she is really worth it. There'll be LB's to beat the band and she'll return them as well. She'll sense that he's rethinking and she again is losing control.

She's cost him his family, the disapproval of his mother, and a big chunk of assets. His children will never respect him as they should. He'll think to himself, what did I ever see in her? Is she really that special?

Then my dear, he'll wake up... Just be patient.

By the way, I've learned if you're sick the morning of the mediation and can't make it, what are they going to do to you? There's no mediation jail in which they can put you...

Thanks Carnation it means a lot to me that people care so much.....

I keep praying as well to take this pain away.... I know in time it will fade but for now its so hard.....

JPH,

I wish thats how it will turn out but I am not counting on it.... We already lost the house so there is no asset there.

Only thing he has to loose really is CS and Alimony and half of his 401k ......

We don't have anything of value home, cars or such.... Now if he has to pay my attorney fees it will cost him some bucks as well....

So assets arn't that much really.... Kinda sucks in a way ...

GOOD POINT AND FUNNY..LOL!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But its court order by the judge.... Isn't that like having a court date?

You are so welcome Hurting. When you get a moment, or right now... Raise both of your arms staight to the sky. Close your eyes and concentrate real hard. Ask God to take away the pain. You will actually feel the stress leave your fingertips. It has been a life-saver for me sometimes.

I am going to call my mother right now and ask her to put one of my friends on her Prayer Chain list. She is a very religious person who would be honored to pray and have her network of people pray for someone for me.

Believe in the power of prayer. And... get a good attorney !!! lol

Best regards - Car

Half of not much is still half. He still will have to pay CS/alimony and that will put a big dent in his funds. Then he would just have enough for expenses. Not a good position to be in when retirement age is starting to become a reality in one's thinking.

She's not worth it. You know it. She knows it. And soon he'll know it.

Again ty carnation ...... it means a lot to me .....

I have a good attorney thats for sure... I believe in the power of prayer...... Been saying a lot of them today

I didn't realize this about the house.

Where are you living now?

I can 100% bet he will be "shocked" and "furious" when he finds out that his 401K is equally yours to share <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. He has no clue about this. I guarantee it.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

JPH,

Your right I definatley know it and I hope in time he will to ......

I know his 401k is gonna make him mad. I bet he thinks I won't think of that one..... Thats one of the first things I questioned the attorney about .....

He is very protective over that .... He knows retirement is not far off

Quick legal question for the ESQ's here.

What would preclude a Wayward Spouse who is in the "middle" of Separation/Divorce proceedings (without a court date or judgement) from withdrawing his 401K, taking the early "penalty" fee and making the Betrayed Spouse (Future XW) later try and "fight" for this when the Divorce is granted/final.

Is there a legal mechanism to prevent this from happening?

Many people do "dumb" things with their 401K's in times of need, and this seems like it would be a "concern".

Am I overreacting?

Lem

Lem ,

I am still living in the house. We were buying it from his mom and it had all our names on the deed. When he left and said he was not ever coming back, his mom went to her attorney and talked to him he convinced her to have us do a quit claim deed and take our names off so it would not part of the divorce.

Well we did and so now its just in her name. Now if he was to come back we could still buy the house bu it will stay in her name until paid off. Now here is the kicker... The attorney who advised his mom is the same attorney who said he would not take WH'S case because of conflict of interest. But once the house was dne guess who his attorney is ?????
I am paying my MIL rent until I decide what to do .... MY SIL is going to buy the house once I move it ... WH will never have it again ...... and he knows this .....

The whole thing sucks big time and yes I may end up getting screwed in the long run over it but aat this point I really don't care about this house anymore.... if WH manages to get it back which I doubt because SIL really wants it I hope to he11 he has to live with the memories of his family being here and his kids growing up here ..... You can't escape memories no matter how hard you try ....

Lem ,

As far as his 401 K goes he has done nothing with it ..... It was with his last job and the papers came to my home that he would have to sign to to roll it over or take money from it ... I never gave him those papers on advice of my attorney. Plus the statement came about 2 weeks ago showing how much is in it....

So unles he got the papers from his former employer in the last couple of weeks its still safe..

And in the filings of OCT 25 it palinly states no moneys from any retirment accounts , 401k's etc can be liquidated with out court permission .. they were frozen until a court date .... So if he did do anything after Oct 25 he will be in contempt of court and can be fined or jailed and will still have to pay me my half ....

Good..I feel better for you reading this.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

yeah me to ...... but to be honest I don't even think he has thought of this .... I would think his attorney would have told him but who knows

Well, maybe not......BUT, if this Divorce goes down (don't think it will though) you will NEED and be entitled to that money, so it is good your protected.

I am sure in the history of Wayward Spouses, a Wayward has tried doing this.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I agree lem.. I will need that money for sure.....

I hope it dosn't go down but i am covering all my bases just in case....

I know that WS's are dumb enough to try to hide money. It usually bits them in the end.

OOooo, please take a digital camera into court and take a picture of his face when you get half his 401k!!!

I have heard over and over from lots of men I've known in the military who feel their wives don't deserve any of their pensions or 401ks. I've even heard it from my FWH. Of course, they all seem to forget that they *wanted* their wives to be SAHM (like I am). Later they seem to think its our fault for not working!

You got that right Mojo.....

its all my fault according to him ..... yeah right

Hurting -

Sorry to hear of this news - but everyone is right, just keep hanging in there! You sound pretty good right now - I'll be saying a prayer for you tonight.

BTW, I'm still saying those prayers that you shared with us quite some time ago. I believe they are really having an effect and I have shared these prayers with a few close friends. I truly think my OW is rejecting my WH. Thank you again for sharing those prayers.

Kim

Kim,

Thank you for the prayers.

I may sound good but I sure don't feel good. I am scared, angry and frustrated all at the same time.

My emotions keep bouncing all over the place. I want to cry but the nthe next minute I want to just curse him out for being so stupid. I tell you one thing good thing I am in plan B because if not I really don't know what I would say or do ..... The OW is so lucky I won't sink to her level because right now I am at the point I don't care if she hears what I have to say or even if it makes a difference to her,,, I just want to blast her and WH .....

I have been taking the high road for so many months now I just don't know how much longer it will be before I truly loose it on both of them .... It probably would seal the end of my marriage but looks like that is coming anyway ....

{{{{Hurting}}}}

Kim

As I was coming home from work tonight, I heard a Keith Urban song on the radio and it seemed like it was just the perfect song for the times.

It almost makes me want to send it to WH....... It really hit home with me ....

You'll Think of Me

I woke up early this morning around 4am
With the moon shining bright as headlights on the interstate
I pulled the covers over my head and tried to catch some sleep
But thoughts of us kept keeping me awake
Ever since you found yourself in someone else's arms
I've been tryin' my best to get along
But that's OK
There's nothing left to say, but

Take your records, take your freedom
Take your memories I don't need'em
Take your space and take your reasons
But you'll think of me
And take your cat and leave my sweater
'Cause we have nothing left to weather
In fact I'll feel a whole lot better
But you'll think of me, you'll think of me

I went out driving trying to clear my head
I tried to sweep out all the ruins that my emotions left
I guess I'm feeling just a little tired of this
And all the baggage that seems to still exist
It seems the only blessing I have left to my name
Is not knowing what we could have been
What we should have been
So

Take your records, take your freedom
Take your memories I don't need'em
Take your space and take your reasons
But you'll think of me
And take your cat and leave my sweater
'Cause we have nothing left to weather
In fact I'll feel a whole lot better
But you'll think of me

Someday I'm gonna run across your mind
Don't worry, I'll be fine
I'm gonna be alright
While you're sleeping with your pride
Wishing I could hold you tight
I'll be over you
And on with my life

So take your records, take your freedom
Take your memories I don't need'em
And take your cat and leave my sweater
'Cause we have nothing left to weather
In fact I'll feel a whole lot better
But you'll think of me

So take your records, take your freedom
Take your memories I don't need'em
Take your space and all your reasons
But you'll think of me
And take your cat and leave my sweater
'Cause we got nothing left to weather
In fact I'll feel a whole lot better
But you'll think of me, you'll think of me, yeah

And you're gonna think of me
Oh someday baby, someday


Today has just been a rough day ..... I am so glad its over..... Now if I could only forget all of this ....

{{{Hurting}}}

Thinking of you this morning and wishing you a peaceful sleep.

Hurting,

These were the reasons my attorney suggested I countersue: (again, check with your attorney/state laws)

If you don't countersue, it means you agree with everything that was presented in the initial filing. For instance, my WH filed for full custody. If he chose to pursue this (he didn't) and I hadn't countersued, it would have meant I was legally agreeing to it.

Secondly, it just gave me more power in the situation. If we decided to call off the divorce, I would have to agree with it as well. I felt so powerless, like WH was calling all the shots, I wanted him to know, you'll only come back IF I SAY SO AS WELL!

I agree with Shattered, you should seriously consider to counter sue.

Go for the gold - hit him hard. Go for full custody, CS, Alimony, the 401k, court costs, attorney costs, go for the cars (including the new one he bought), go after his tools and anything else he owns. Is your name on his truck also? Go for that.

Did you turn he and the OW into the apartment complex yet for making too much money in a low income complex? Hit him where it hurts - the pocketbook. Once they get kicked out, then they will have to pay more for rent.

You can keep hoping, but put on your battle armor - it's time for him to pay some consequences!!!!

Read Shugah's thread for encouragement.

She is divorced from her FWH. They have not remarried yet but they are happily recovered.

{{{hurting}}}

Yes, it hurts ... filing for divorce, signing the papers... the whole process hurts ... you are officially separating your life from your husband's ...

This is not the end .. it is just something else to deal with ...
just remember that it is a long road ...

I had hopes that xH was going to 'react' before the divorce was final .. but it didn't happened ... for my own sanity and for whatever future relationship we were going to have in the future, I didn't want a nasty divorce ... he neither ...
I kept almost everything except his personal stuff ... CS was established, visitation was established, neither of us wanted to fight anything ...
except the grounds for divorce ... he wanted it to be on mutual consent ... I told him, you owe me that much, don't fight that ...
the divorce was final on grounds of adultery and cruel treatment (emotional abuse).
I didn't want to go to court and I told that to my lawyer ... xH didn't have a lawyer. He signed an affidavit to my lawyer that he didn't have any legal representation and didn't want to go to court either ... we received the final notice by mail ... this still hurt ...


I couldn't agree more with your mom!
Even if the divorce its final ... it doesn't mean that your life or your relationship will be final either ...
what to do? just keep working on your self ... don't stress out about the next court date ... I know, easier said than done, but try it ...
is there a way to talk to your attorney and let him/her handle things if you don't want to go to court? would that be possible? would it hurt your case?
talk to your attorney and ask him/her ...

Hurting:

IMO, your H is doing this in response to demands from the OW. They are still trying to make their relationship work..

Please try to sit back and DO NOTHING...

Let your H maintain RESPONSIBILITY for getting the D if he wants to...

Do not provide justification to him by interacting with them. What would be the value of that for you, Hurting? It may feel good in the moment to blast her but, as you know I have said before, you don't want to sink to her TRASHY level...

Do not countersue if YOU don't want a divorce. I suggest that YOU DO NOTHING LEGALLY...

BUT, behind the scenes, I STRONGLY URGE YOU TO MAKE AN ANONYMOUS REPORT regarding their living arrangements ASAP...

We haven't heard back from you on this? Can this be a way of you venting that hostility that you have right now? Reporting this is justified...

Mimi,

Ok I just woke up got home from work and didn't go to bed until 7 am ..

But here are some thought give me some input.

First I oing to call the housing authority today or tomorrow to turn tem in ... I have to wait for MIL to get home to use the phone.

Secondly when I see my attorney on Jan 4 I will restate the fact I don't want this divorce and to use any legal means necessary to drag it out.

Third I am going to request the max on alimony, CS, of course the 401K ... court cost, attorney fees and whatever else I can think of ..... When we go to mediation I know he will not agree to all of this.... So when his counter offer is laid out I am going to refuse it no matter what ... I will force this into trial in front of a judge. I want to make this as hard a possible on him and cause as much stress as I can so he can go home to OW bitching and moaning.... I am even going to see about the court orderd counseling because of our minor child..... anything to drag this out .....

So what do you all think ? I have thought about all of this since last night and decidedI am not going to sit here and allow them to control my life and just give in like a whipped puppy... I am going to fight this how ever I can ....

I LOVE YOUR PLAN!!!

Thank God Mimi...... You were the one I had hoped would agree with it the most.....

good luck with your plan oklahoma..it sounds very good

I'm lovin' it.

Actually, the more complicated you make it, then the more it will drag on. That will hopefully cause strife between those two.

Has the OW filed for divorce yet? Why is she pushing so hard, when she herself isn't divorced? What is WH thinking? If I were in his situation, I wouldn't have filed until she did. It sounds like she is really playing him.

Personally, I don't see how he can be enjoying his life so much. Nothing in his life is the same. He no longer has the social structure and support that he once had. I really don't see how all of the strife he has caused and is going through is better than being ignored by you for a period of time. I would think that sticking with his wife would prove to be a better solution then destroying his life, family, etc... Maybe it's the whole mid-life crisis thing. I don't know.

I come on here everyday to read your thread. I have never gone through this type of turmoil, so I can only imagine your pain. I do think about you often (even on Christmas) and hope your WH gets his head out of his butt. Sometimes it takes a good, swift, kick in the [censored] to dislodge it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Wifeypoo,

As far as I know she has not filed for divorce yet. I keep looking on line and so far nothing. My filing and his counterfle have shown up on line but nothing from her.

See I am thinking the same thing he is pushing so hard and she is doing nothing to divorce. Of course her and her hubby been apart so long and he don't give a rats a$$ what she does. But I do have the feeling she is playing him and allowing him to destroy his own life then get what she wants and kick him ot the curb.

I don' think his life is that happy but he will never let me know that for sure. He keeps playing the game. I do believe its part MLC myself.

The more I can drag this out and cause him more pain , I think he will start seeing some reality. Thats what I am praying for anyway.....

Sit back and see what happens once she gets evicted...

LOL to funny

But of course you know that will be blamed on me as well....

But I know nothing about it .....

Hurting, you have a good plan, and you are doing the right thing. Keep fighting the good fight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lady

Thanks Lady... I plan on fighting ... I may not win in the end but I will know I gave it my all... I will never regret anything thats for sure.....

Believe it or not I think my marriage deserves one of us to fight for it.. Even after all the crap thats happened ...

I would have to agree Hurting you have really given your all. And WH will never forget that! And neither will we.

You are one of MB's top virtuous women! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Blessings,
Lady

awww thanks Lady ..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Just woke up from a nap. I think I am getting sick feels like a bad cold...

Anyhow I had a wonderful dream that H was home and everything was wonderful. Best dream I have had of him in months. Sad part is when I woke up I realized it was only a dream...... The dream was nice though while it lasted....

Thank goodness I am off tonight so I can load up on cold meds. and hopefully feel better tomorrow.... H used to take care of me when I was sick made sure I took meds and made me hot toddy's before bed.... Now he is not here to do it ..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

I hope your feeling better. It's probably all the stress you have been going through.
Take Care

Thanks World ... I hope i feel better tomorrow since i have to work ...

You know I have been reading a lot of these post today, and I see a common ground here in so many of them....

There are a lot of long term amrriages of 20 yrs + suffuring this nightmare.

And a couple of them are almost mirror images of mine.... So what does this say?

Does this say that we as spouses WS'S included got lazy in our marriages and took each other for granted ? Never met any EN's because we just expected them to always be there like they had been for years.

Maybe I am looking at this all wrong but it strikes me funny how many of these stories deal with long term marriages.....

My C said alot of long term marriages tend to get boring and yes alot are taken for granted but it is up to both spouses to put the spark back into the marriage. We are not mind readers if something was wrong they needed to communicate it to us.

Amen to that World ...... thats is what happen to us .. WH never said anything about how he was feeling ..... Now he admits he was wrong but he i about a day late and a dollar short on that one .....

yOU ROCK! You turned the affiarmongers in! Good for you! And I hope they kick her 2 the curb! If no immediate response, then tell us the addy of your local congressman and we shall expose them for misuse of taxpayer monies!

And yes, go dark...and with regards to the divorce, yes contest it!

But make sure if you are legally having 2 go thru with it, that your attny goes for what is rightfully yours! Your WH thinks you're gonna ride off into the sunset with a handfull of memories and a smile...but in that pocket of your jeans along with that handfull of memories will go the MAN'S 401K AND ASSETS! He is not thinking with the correct head my dear...sorry margaritas were sooooo darn good tonight!

Nope...brain of the WS is disengaged in the fog! I think if you stick to the course, do not back down, go dark, and let them love bust all over the place RIGHT NOW...you wil make them break up faster! I promise...read my lovely post 2night! It shall happen....hopefully faster since my xh is the ever bouncing WS!

Never known a wayward to bounce so darn much! But his bounce has lost it's boing!

Anyway, you will be in prayers tonight. I know you've had a hard week. And God gives rest to the weary. And He loves you and so do we!

You will make it thru this! And I believe WS will become broken soon...

You got it...I wonder if it is them trying to justify their affairs. We never had any problems in our marriage until his mom passed away and then he went off the deep end and this A started a month later.

I hope the C he goes to next week can get into his head, that is if it hasn't turned to stone yet.

Peach,

I read your post. it is truly amazing to me that the WH'S are so stupid.

Darth now see's what he has done and is now reaping what he sowed. Way to late for him and in a way its very sad.

But you my dear on the other hand are doing so wonderfully. You should be so porud of yourself for coming so far.

Now as far as my sitch I am going to contest and stay dark. I will go to mediation but not accept anything offered. I want this in front of a judge. I want the judge to see what he has done to his family.

I am pretty sure I contest he is gonna get pissed at me but that makes it easier for him to go home mad and then she gonna get mad. I am sure at first I will be their target but as this continues but it will have to cause some problems for them I would think .....

Especially if they have to move lol

truth will set you free...and hopefully WH if he allows it to!

We can only pray so ......

Seems to me our marriages are on the same track. I have a meeting with my attorney on the 4th and a court date on the 11th. What are the odds. I am praying that you get the solution you want and soon everything will make a turn for the better.

Newly,

I pray the same for you and all of the hurt BS'S who are trying so hard to hang on and save their marriages.....

Its pretty strange to have the same dates here.... My court is at 2:15 in the afternoon, now if you tell me yours is that time it would be very eerrie....


Good luck to you Newly... God will help us through this ....

Actually it is 2:00. How about that?

Oh my now that is weird .... I don't know about you but my nerves are on edge with this ....

Guess we will both have updates that night .....

Wow.....you two. Same court dates same time...well 15 min diff. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Well that means good things are gonna happen at court for you both. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lady

Lady,

Sounds good to me .... I need all the good I can get....

Sure wish it would be waking his butt up that will happen but I ain't counting on it ......

It is weird though our sitchs are so much alike and long term marriages..... whoda thunk it lol

I hope you are right we both need good things to happen for a change.

Our marriages were almost as long and are kids are about the same age. My DD got married in June. No grandkids yet. I am always interested in what you have to say. Keep up the good work you are an inspiration.

Newly,

Thanks so much ..... This has been a long hard road and it still isn't over .. Many bumps and curves left to go... I am getting tired and just not sure how much longer I can stay on this road....

I feel I have given it my all, this court thing and contesting the divorce is my last course of action... If that fails then the time has come for me to just let go....

I will keep the door open for him for awhile but I will not actively try anymore... I will just move on in my life... I will not plana or planb , I will just be me...

Maybe it sounds like quiting but its actually not, its just letting him stew in his own mess with no help from me.....

I will always love him this I am sure of, but I can be happy without him if it comes to that.....

Now I could of just written your post. I know I will always love my H, he's just making it harder every day. I am also just going to be me and let him make a mess of his owm life. I will be fine. My kids are wonderful and support me all the way. I couldn't ask for better. I know what ever happens I will have a good life. If it comes down to it someday I will find someone else and then I may wonder what I fought so hard for. You never know what the future holds.

So very true ..... I agree with all of that .....

Our love for them will always be there maybe not as strong but I can't ever imagine not loving the man I have children with and I spent so many yrs with....

They will always have a piece of our hearts no matter how this turns out...

That is so true. I think it can only be true for them also. My H actually told his brother a couple of weeks ago that he loved me and always will. He sure has a funny way of showing it now doesn't he.

Yup , mine has said the same thing to his sister....

Well if ya love me then do the right thing ya idiots.....

I swear they have lost their minds .....

Good Morning All,

Just wanted to check in and say hellooo....

Gotta go get a new battery for my car, the old one died...

Guess I gotta learn to do this stuff on my own now...

Have no clue what I am suppose to look for but guess I will figure it out....

Have a great day everyone ....

What about the housing department?

Mimi,

They are checking into it .... Thats all I know .... I was being anoym.... so I guess I wiil find out in time if they do anything

Hurting-
I've been away from the computer for a few days and am just
getting caught up. I am so sorry to hear of your WH's recent
actions, but as with many here, I strongly agree that him
filing the papers was probably just an effort to appease the
OW, and if so, that must mean the LB's are "flying" from both sides ! (She is desperate, clingy and griping at him,
he is trying to escape it by doing the paperwork but must
also feel trapped and resentful of her pushing him).
Your plan to stay "dark", and continue on with the "high
road" as you've been doing sound like a great course of
action- !

Sounds like your Christmas was nice- it's so great that your
MIL, SIL, and kids are supportive and helpful. I had held
out a little hope WH would decide to spend some time with me but did make plans for activities with family and friends. I was at least hoping that WH would really think
of and miss our traditions, his family, etc. and would not
have a fun time spending it with OW.

As it ended up, there was a dramatic turn of events (will
update my thread or start a new one) so he did not have a
good holiday at all, and seems to have made a rapid exit
from the fog. I'm hopeful that it's a good thing for our
M, but it's too soon to get too hopeful.
(hugs)
Slammed

Slammed,

Thanks for checking in .... I hope his filing of the papers is just what we all think it is .... I just don't know anymore...

I am anxious to read your update.... I hope its a great thing for you ..


Hurting

Glad you made that call...

Hi Hurtin- I've been following along in your story since you first posted it and just wanted to share what worked for me. My WH insisted he wanted a divorce and OW urged him to pursue it. Every time he mentioned the D word to me I would calmly tell him "Don't take this too personally WH but I did not agree to have 3 children with you and be married 15 yrs together all to end up raising our children in a broken home and I"m against D for moral and spiritual reasons. Since that is the case if you insist on D then you can expect to have the longest drawn out D in Ohio history and I will contest everything along the way." I would then end the discussion right there. Soon after a few of these
'talks' my WH filed papers on me and had me served without giving me a heads up and I truly believed that it was over between us. But WH told me later after cancelling the D that OW had pressured him to do it and that my taking a strong continuous stance against it did affect him even though it made him mad in the short run.I say it isn't over till the fat lady sings! Take care.

me to Mimi ..... I just pray something comes of it ....

lifeismessy,

Thanks for the post, somehow i missed it before....

I really liked what you said to him, its brillant...

I am going to write it down and practice the words.... I may use them during the mediation thing..... Planb prohibits any other contact.... Thank Goodness ....

I am glad things turned around for you and recovery is happening.....


Thanks for the encouragment


Hurting

I hope it won't take long before you find out something about OW living arrangements.

Not very long ago I had to buy new tires for my SUV. That was something I had never done before. I called the person in town we always dealt with and told them what I needed. They told me they were 80.00 each or I could get a set of almost new take offs for 100.00 a set. That was a 220.00 dollar savings. I was told they had 25000 to 30000 miles left on them. I was a little worried about it but went ahead because I figured I would at least get 100.00 worth of use out of them. This was the best thing I ever did. They are pretty good tires and I saved alot of money. It sucks to have to do these things but you just have to ask around. Your doing great. Think of it as an adventure even though it is an unwanted adventure. Take care.

Why thank you .. I did do good ... I took the battery to the place and of course it was bad. So they looked on the c omputer for the warrenty info. which of course in under WH'S name. They could only find the new battery he bought around the beginning of Dec. .. turns out it was for a Buick guess who owns the buick???? You guessed it OW...

Anyhow my warrenty had expired so I had to buy a new one. They were going to put it under WH'S name I said nope put it in my name , we are seperated and I need my own thing. Now these people know WH and didn't know we were seperated, they know now and they now know why to ..lol
Oh well sucks to be him .....

Anyhow was an adventure and I was proud I did it on my own.... DS installed the battery and now the car starts whoohoooo..... Next adventure is oil changing ..... yuck

See WH I can do things by myself !!!!!!!!!!!!

I have often wondered if I was more needy would this ever have happened. I am pretty independent and can do most things for myself although it would be nice to have someone to do things for me. I did everything around here and basically H didn't do much. He went out and worked and that is about it. I took care of the house and the yardwork. I'm sure OW will jump right in and take care of everything now. NOT. I think he got wrapped up in her idolizing him and thinking he was king. Lord who has time for that in the real world. You never know what your really capable of until you are the only one you can depend on. Stay strong and we will come out the winners.

hurtin, did you know that most auto parts stores will install stuff like that for free? I had to put a new battery on my Jeep this summer and I had them install it. They do it for free at places like Auto Zone, O'Reilly's. And you can get your wheels rotated and balanced for free at Discount Tires.

I didn't know that Mel, thanks for the info.....

I went to O'Reilly's but I couldn't drive the car it was tottally dead and wouldn't even jump. So borrowed MIL van to take it..... One good thing WH did teach the boys how to do some maintance on the cars. So DS knew how to change the battery out. Now as far as the oil change I may ask my BIL to do it.....

I need my tires done as well but thank goodness the Goodyear store will do it for free since I bought them there....

Good for you hurting !
You have accomplished SO many things- like losing weight,
coloring your hair, home improvements, handling holidays,
the fire, your kids situations, and now vehicle maintenance
too ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I have been able to handle quite a few things by myself
also, but am lucky in that my Dad (who has been a general
contrator, plumbing specialist, woodworker) lives nearby
and has been available to help when I've needed it.
Over the weekend he helped me set mousetraps in the garage !

I really hope OW will continue to push and nag at your WH
because he's going to get really sick of it, especially
since it sounds like she's been at it for awhile (the
supposed mystery phone call, rumors, etc.) - I think that
really shows that she is getting desperate, and that will
certainly lead to LB behaviors on her part (and his too).
That and the reality of $$$$ that WH is going to have to
spend for a D should really knock him into some reality
check.

Thanks for your support and thoughts on my post- it's been
very interesting to see how things could change in just a
week, and feels a little hopeful, but lots of big IFS, and
ups and down to go, I'm sure. Will update again on the
new post.

Hope your weekend is good and HAPPY NEW YEAR !
(if you're like me, your'e very glad to see 2005 go !)
Slammed

Ok now I am pissed.

WH was suppose to come get DS today. He called DD and said he was to tired to come. He claims he got in last night at 8 pm and didn't sleep well because the kitten he has kept him awake all night.... Sure it did....

Now this is the same man who last week blamed me for not seeing his kids enough ...... What the heck is wrong with him???? He has the time and opportunity and blows it off ....
If he didn't sleep well sure isn't because o some cat, more like his guilt or OW wanting to do something and of course thats more important....

Payback gonna be a bi*ch for him one day thats for sure....

Ok done now ...

Sheesh - All the WS's are dropping out of seeing their kids today. Could it be because it's New Years Eve??????????????

Thats must be it believer...... Of course it will be my fault again within a few days.....

As DD and are driving and she is talking to him so of course I hear her end of the convo. , he is asking her so what are you and your mom doing? She says we are going to the store..... He just makes me so mad..... He has yet to tell anyone he filed the divorce papers, he is keeping it to himself he has not mentioned it it all ......


Oh remeinds me DD bought me a late xmas and bd present today .... She got me two cd's .... Toby Keiths Honkeytonk U and Bo Bice The Real thing..... I love American Idol and it starts again soon..... So that made me happy ....

You all wanna hear something funny ???

DD was telling me WH got himself a kitten who supposedly kept him awake all night so he couldn't see DS.

But anyway the funny thing is he named this kitten the same name as our female dog , that he loves so much.... He wants this dog but I won't let him have her, he walked out on them to.... So I guess his way to replace her is getting a kitten and using the same name....

I find it funny ......

That is pretty funny.

It always amazes me their thought processes. Some of the things they come up with.

Maybe he is longing for home.

I can only wish Newly..... And its not like its a common name for pets you know like Spot or Rover ..... Its a very feminame(sp?) for a dog or cat.....

Me thinks he is longing for something ....

DS is home from the BD party and said WH showed up right after I left and dropped off nephews present. Glad I missed him , but I did see him coming down the road... Anyhow DS is upset because WH didn't make any plans to see him this weekend, kinda blew him off after all that moaning last week about not seeing his kids enough. Anyhow I am going to do something tomorrow with DS since I will be off work.

WH is really not doing well I don't think.... naming pets after the pets we already have, blowing off DS, asking questions again ...... Hope he is miserable......

Oh you know he is. Why do you think he can't sleep? I can't sleep either when something is bothering me. It runs over and over in my head.

From what you say about his family, this boy was raised right. He knows in his heart what a disappointment he is to his mother. His sister supports you. And his children, that's got to eat him alive. For those of us that know Him, God doesn't let us wallow in sin and be happy for long. And for those who don't, He'll use the nightmare to draw them to Him.

And the kicker, he's asking what you and DD are doing. If he truly meant for this to be the end why would he care? He wouldn't.

If he were happy, he would be sleeping like a baby and he wouldn't be concerned about your comings and goings.

And that anger..you know he has projected his own anger onto you. Been there bought the t-shirt.

It's funny how the behaviour of the WS can even project to our pets. WS did the same thing to our dog. We raised this dog *TOGETHER* since she was 8 weeks old, even before we got married. My dog is not past 14 yo and half blind in one eye.

In the throes of his A, WS ignored this beloved dog of ours and refused to touch her.

Well, my dog ignored him too.

You take care, hurting.

~A

JPH,

I know your right, I don't buy the not sleeping story because of a cat. Heck we had our dogs sleep with us while he was home and it never bothered him....

Yeah, he is always asking the kids about me ....

I know his anger is being used against me because he can't handle dealing with himself.

I sure wish the heck he would just get it together, I was talking to my mom tonight telling her about the cat thing and blowing off the kids... She said BS this is definatley not the WH I have known for 24 yrs. he has got something wrong with his head, do you think its drugs??? I had to laugh and told her no mom its not drugs... He gets tested way to much for his job. Its just that he has gone stupid for awhile....

She is worried now that since i have started to pull away f rom him and act happy around people I know that he will think I don't care anymore and think I can do without him... I told her Mom he knows I love him and want him home but he has to also see that I am not sitting around here mopeing and crying all the time..... Getting out and doing things shows him I can do it by myself .. she is just worried that the 180 will backfire on me .... I told her if it does at least I will be happy .....

Well time to get ready for work .... Everyone have a safe New Years .....

Ashley,

As far as the dogs go when ever he gets the chance to see them he does.... When he picks up DS sometimes DS will take them out to see him or he see's them in the backyard.... He misses them a lot.... They miss him to ...

Good for you Hurting. Show him that you have a rich full life and that you haven't been reduced to a pile on the floor because he left.

He'll wonder what things you're up to and he'll wonder if some man will see what a wonderful person you are and snatch you up!

I'm proud of you for doing such a good job!

One more thing we have in common. If my MIL has asked me once she has asked me a thousand time if my H is on drugs. I always say no it's not drugs. She thinks that could be the only explanation for his drastic change in behaviour.

Keep up the good work. I know however this ends you will be fine. We all will. We may not think so at times but God will take care of us.

Take care and Happy New Year.

Yes, Newly your right God will take care of us ......


HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!!!!

Well looks like we all survived the New Year......

It was easier than I expected it to be. I was sad though the memories of 24 previous New Years eve's came to mind. First New Years in that many years I didn't have a kiss or hug from the person I love the most. I held up good though didn't break or cry until I went to bed.

WH didn't call the kids or wish them happy new year at all. Just the thought he is with the homewrecker for the start of a new year makes me sick to my stomach.

One thing is for sure this year will be better than 2005. It darn sure can't be any worse..... I keep telling myself come on pick your [censored] up wipe it off and move ahead.... I am getting there a little more each day....

Ok done feeling sorry for myself ....Happy New Year everyone ..

Happy New Year Hurting -

It is so tough I am sure to look back on the past 24 years and not have your H there with you to start another year - I had only been with my H for 13 years so I can't imagine the feelings you must be going through.

It's funny - for me I feel like my H has not been here for a while anyway. Different reasons - him not taking a leadership role in the family, not being a good provider, working the job he has with a young child to take care of. So, ringing in the New Year was not so tough for me.

Sometimes I feel like there is something wrong with me b/c I don't seem to be missing my H as much as many of you here. I am so good at denial that maybe I have put up a huge wall to protect myself...

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you & that I am sure this year is going to be better.

Take Care!

Kim

Happy New Year KIm..

I am sure this year will be better, it has to be no place to go but up.

I wish in a way I was like you and had that wall around me so I wouldn't be missing my H so much.

I do pretty good most of the time , I think it was just the memories of holidays past that got to me in this last week or so... With my birthday, Christmas and New years all within one week it really triggered a lot of things....

I will be taking down the christmas stuff on tuesday when I am off work... Getting the house back to normal will help a lot in getting over this bad part.

I started a sketch today of my grandsons. It will be in pencil with a few pastels thrown in to give a little color. I hope it turns out well. If it does I will have some copies made to give to my son and dil.... I will keep the orginal though... To bad WH won't get one but I will make sure he knows about it ... lol

Anyhow have a great day ......

Hurting

That sounds nice! I hope it turns out for you ---- Will be a wonderful gift.


I'm taking my stuff down today - DS is with WH. I miss him when he's gone, but it's good to some things done. It's tough being a single mom.

Kim

Yup Kim it is tough being a single mom... And with mine being teens it just makes it so hard. They don't have the father around to help with all of the teen things...

DS is taking this so hard but trying to act like it dosn't. He was so upset his dad blew him off this weekend he called him a bad name.... I was shocked by his reaction....

I just can't imagine what its going to take for WH to realize the tramua he has caused his children. I don't know if their relationships can ever be the same again.

We will get through this and like I told DS we can be happy and make life good.... It won't be like this forever even though some days it feels it.....

Hi Hurting, this is so sad. I think the devotional I read today may apply to your WH some....
Paul was determined that nothing would stop him from doing exactly what God wanted. But before we choose to follow God’s will, a crisis must develop in our lives. This happens because we tend to be unresponsive to God’s gentler nudges. He brings us to the place where He asks us to be our utmost for Him and we begin to debate. He then providentially produces a crisis where we have to decide— for or against. That moment becomes a great crossroads in our lives. If a crisis has come to you on any front, surrender your will to Jesus absolutely and irrevocably.


I think could appy to Slammed's H too. It actually could apply to many.

I hope the very Best New Year for you Hurting.

Lady

Went to MIL'S to eat dinner. She said WH called her today to say Happy New Year.

She was telling him she hoped this year would be better after all the crap he has pulled. He told her don't even go there, you don't know what went on behind closed doors. He is still making out like we had the worst marriage ever. Still justifying it all.

She told him to think of his children and how they feel. She said the kids don't say anything to you because they are afraid of losing you. he said I have done nothing wrong and the kids will be ok....

He is no closer to admitting he has done anything wrong that he was from day one.... He still believes what he is doing is justified and right. Almost 7 months and no closer to admitting any mistakes at all....

I think this man is a lost cause and I might as well accept that and move on and forget him.... He just flat does not care.....

Ok Hurting....

You're doing great girl.\

Now your WH is FOGGED OUT...do not believe ANYTHING THE FOOL SAYS RIGHT NOW...

Give them TIME TO LB AGAIN...IT WILL HAPPEN I ASSURE YOU!

Just trust in time. They are trying to cocoon up after her made up "phone call" scheme. He was beginning to leave fog...she saw him wanting his family...she started trouble and now he's "defending territory" b/c the ow feels threatened.

Yea, do NOT get your feelings hurt right now!

In fact, please start doing something different to take mind off of it!

Find a book club. You can go to local library to find them. Many are found online too! But it's best to go out to a place...getting out of house helps.

Keep walking and working on YOU! And ask your attny to ask for MONEY FOR COLLEGE TUITION FOR BOTH YOU AND THE KIDS! Yea! Time to reinvent yourself.

Just preoccupy your time until they freak out again...which WILL HAPPEN...

Please do not lose faith yet. Not yet. There is still a family here...it was LESS THAN A MONTH HE WAS WAFFLING.

I say you do something different. Get the home highlight/lowlight kit and get some. Just a different look. Maybe a different color? BECOME ANOTHER WOMAN! Yea,, try it!

Try to experiment with different types of makeup too. Different colors.

You will be surprised what happens when you get busy!

I started Ediets today. Went to store just a while ago on way back from hospital. Am psyched about it! I am not big mind you...just want to be HOT! And I can do it. Want to go from snug size six to two again! I am petite to begin with so it will be a huge difference.

This new year, PLAN A YOURSELF...LET'S DO IT!

Your WH will wake up honey. Like I say all along...what is important is is it WITHIN THE TIME FRAME THAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU...YOU...YOU!

(((Hurting)))

I know how tired you are, it is very draining. For me, I am just trying to break it down piece at a time. Right now, I am trying not to freak about about our first court appearance on Wednesday. Get my objectives straight, get it over with, then I can decide what next best move is.

I am getting more comfortable with the idea of divorcing WH. I miss the illusion of my H, I miss who I thought he was, or who he really used to be. But he has chosen this path and I need off the bus.

The fact that your WH says he has done nothing wrong - wow! At least my WH can throw my A back up in my face as in "I am not doing anything you haven't done". But for your WH to just say his A is not wrong, that is pretty wild.

I am sorry Hurting, I think with the court stuff, we are both going to see some worse before we see any better. I do think for you there is better to be had from your WH, he just isn't there yet.

just reading your posts about court and divorce makes me sick to my stomach...oklahoma, you and jean are very strong women to deal with it having the attituade that you do

Peachy,

I am trying not to get my feelings hurt but it does. I kow he is fogged out and stupid right now, I just wish I could get that through my head.

I am going Wed. to get my hair cut probably gonna have to color it again after that. I did buy some new makeup last week, I have never been one to wear lipstick but I bought some... Gonna see if I like it ... When my WH was a H he used to talk about how sexy my lips were. So when we go to mediation on the 11 of Jan. I will be sporting a new hairstyle and color and lipstick .....

DD and I went to WAl-Mart tonight I got a new comforter and shams for my bed. Gonna throw the old one out. Make my room look brand new .....

I am trying to PlanA myself really I am .... I started the sketch today of my grandson's... So far have a just laid out the format and basics of it.... My DD said "Mom your drawing again, how cool and it looks like GS.. I said it is GS.... She was happy to see me doing that.

While we were eating at MIL'S, my SIL started the c onversation of how bad she felt for WH because he is being lied to and used. Of course MIL and I went along about how we hurt for him and how sad it was. DD never said anything but took it all in. Also MIL was telling us about a mna she met and how they are becoming friends. Now WH will freak out over that because he is so jealous of anyone being with his mom. He ck she has been a widow since 1988 she needs someone... Then we opend some champagne and made a toast and MIL winked at me and said to a better year and maybe we both can find a good man.... DD'S face was priceless.... Wonder how long it will take before WH hears all of this ....


Anyways I am feeling better now that I spend some money ..lol

I know eventuall he will get it but like you said Peach wll it be in my time frame.... Who knows .........

Eav,

Believe me it makes me sick to my stomach to but there isn't much I can do about ....

Since it i happening I have to handle it and be smart and protect myself and DS.

I don't like , I don't want it but we can't always get what we want. I am finding that out very quickly...

So I have no choice but to do what I have to do right now and thats stay smart and alert....

Good for you!

Remember...eyes are important too. Mascara, neutral eyes, some liner...and yes, neutral lipliner. Not the dark stuff...sorry NYC people...but that is OUT!

Neutral lip liner. Works with all lipcolors! And get a little gloss for center of lip. Really works well! Try new perfume too! That can make you feel like ANOTHER WOMAN! Heck, it will so confuse the WS when you go to mediation!

I would go there looking well...conservative but HOT! I would wear a nice skirt, high heeled boots, and a sweater with a v neckline...not too high..not too low...but low enough. Nice earrings that show off your new haircut and color. And perfume!

At that mediation hearing I would ask the attorney for YOUR TUITION AS WELL AS THE KIDS' COLLEGE TUITIONS! I would also ask for the division of 401k!

And if you know who is handing into to WS...then it is OK to appear a bit foggy yourself.

I still say try DOING THE 180 LIST and see how long it takes for WS to see you're different...really different!

It is cool. You can for sure LB the Waywards from afar!

You can!

hurting...Hon, you DO NOT KNOW YOUR OWN POWER!

I swear. It is there. YOu possess it! But you haven't realized it yet!

It is not OVER UNTIL YOU SAY IT'S OVER!

Great quote is from Animal House...Bluto: "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H#ll NO!"

I love that movie. wAs on the other night. Darth has my dvd of it. Darn Darth!

Every time you get down...say that quote to yourself to make you lighten up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Plus smiling is not only contagious...it is good for you...and it makes people wonder what you are up to! People always begin to worry when I start smiling alot.

And as I was leaving the ER...a RN saw me who knows me. She said "what's with that goofy grin...waht are you up to Peach?" She knows. I said "got plans...some hot plans!" She laughed.

Realize NOW YOUR POWER! THE WS IS CLINGING SO HARD TO THE OW B/C SHE IS PRESSURING HIM...WHY DO YOU ASK? BECAUSE OF YOU! BECAUSE HE WANTED TO LEAVE HER B/C OF YOU! You are in control! Take the reins!

Peachy,

Great advice, I already had planned the hot but conservative look fo mediation.

I want him to wonder what I am up to. I was wondering if I should wear my wedding rings or not.... I know he knows i continue to wear them he has mentioned it. But I wonder if I don't if he would wonder why......

I will ask about college money for sure. And the 401K is something I definatley won't forget.

I will remember IT'S NOT OVER UNTIL I SAY IT'S OVER...... I gonna have to remind myself of that everyday .....

I just hope i can keep from crying during mediation and stay strong.... I don't want to appear lost and afraid with needyness thrown in there.... That would just lead him to think he still has me on a string.... How can I keep from breaking during this?????

MEMORIZE THE 180 LIST!

And if you tear up, it's ok. I cried when we signed papers...my xh cried also. The WS actually cried.

I would wear my ring. It is your show of committment. But in meanwhile...say FOGGY THINGS TO THOSE WHO WILL HAVE WAGGING TONGUES...like...I sure think it's time I made new friends...(do not expand on subject). Ask "where is a good bookstore?" Questions about finding a club..meeting new people! That will drive WS insane!

And ASK THE PEOPLE WHO WILL TONGUE WAG THEIR OPINIONS! It will for SURE get to the WS! He will hear:
1)how good you look
2)you are looking younger
3)acting younger
4)TRYING TO MEET NEW PEOPLE
5)moving ON without him!

It will be perfect for plan B. A passive way to get your outlook across! And it will LB THE OW AND WH FROM AFAR I CAN TELL YOU!

Oughta know. When D was final...before I really confirmed FV was preggers...I started doing foggy things. Darth knew I had new friends...started going out...and he even made snide comments to me about it. He hated me moving on...why? Because unfortunately he could do nothing about it...his ow was pregnant and I did not for sure know yet. I thought maybe...but not confirmed.

Wear skirt to knee...and knee high /high heeled boots. And a v neck sweater. Very classy yet elegant and also sexy! Will drive WH crazy..especially if YOU do not dress like that often!

Ok I will find the list and read it over ......

I will keep the ring on .....

Oh yeah they just opened a Starbucks here as well its only 2 blocks from my house I am so excited.... Only time I got Starbucks is when I went to OKC or something.....

Maybe go there with a book and enjoy the atmosphere and see what happens.... and its right next door to where the OW works to ..... A little close for comfort but oh well.....

I can do this, I can do this ...... keep repeating until ya believe BS...... Fake it till ya make it .....

Oh yeah I have all of that ... I got the boots and the skirt may have ot go buy a sweater but I can do that ....

I didn't dress like that very often.... In fact when we had court in Dec. I dressed like that and believe me he commented on it and how great I looked.... Could keep his eyes off me .....

And the boots I have he bought me and he loves them...... Oh yeah something else v ery intersting I ad on a pair of earring he bought me like 4 yrs ago and he noticed I wa swearing them.... He said I see your wearing the earring I bought you .... So he noticec a lot of little things.... Gonna wear jewlry he has bought me .. Lots of wonderful turquoise stuff he got me ... rings braclets and stuff.... Yup gonna put it all on .....

Oh yeah gonna wear the perfume he loves to ..... my vanilla musk , he always knew when I wore that he was gonna get lucky lol

Found out some interesting things last night from DD.

First off her and her BF are suppose to have dinner with WH saturday night so BF can meet dad. BF won't go unless its just dad, he does not want to meet the bimbo....

WH asked DD about me dating and wanted to know who it was. DD said dad I don't think mom is dating anyone she is always home or working and when she goes places we go with her. She told him anyone mom 47 years old she can do what she wants. He got mad about it. Then he told her well don't tell your mom I asked.

On Thanksgiving when OW'S husband came to pick up their DD OW and her H were in the kitchen and DD saw them all cozy and stuff. WH was in another room and missed it but DD walked in and saw it..

Christmas eve OW was talking about how when WH and I get divorced she will be happy then her and WH can get closer, don' know what that means how much closer than they get...
DD said WH didn't seem quite as happy as OW though..

So this is kind of an insgiht as to what is happening in fantasy land.

Well let me tell you these little things have now allowed me to get really get a plan formulated in my mind. It won't be anything were I will communicate with WH but as Peachy says I can make them LB from afar. Oh this is going to be good.....

Watch out OW I am coming out fighting now and you won't even know it..... And if I loose at least I will be on my way to a better life.....

Oh and Mimi don't worry these things did not upset me in any way in fact they made me laugh and realize just how shakey and crazy their whole relationship is..... Fantasy land for sure....

Happy New Year Oklahoma!

You sound very good. I know it must bite a little hearing about things in the love nest - nice to know that things are not all peachy keen over there.

Kudos to DD's BF for not glossing over the skanky OW issue. Do you like DD's BF, it sounds like he may have some scruples.

I would love to hear your plan. I think always looking happy and well kept as you start your New Year is a great idea. WH and OW can just shrivel up in the pig stye wondering why this great love doesn't make them look as happy as you seem.

I am hearing Mary Tyler Moore music in my head with shots of you swirling around all joyful and free not having to live in adulterous muck!

Jean,

Actually the plan is very easy... I am going on with my life. I am taking Peachy's advice and getting out doing things and gonna look good doing it..

My plan involves making the OW look like the scum she is... Let WH know I am not sitting around waiting anymore for him. Let him see he has scrapped the bottom of the barrel. I think I may even start bowling again. And that he would definatley find out. I'm gonna act happy and content in front of people if it kills me..... Especially people I know who will tell him.... Make him wonder what I am up to ..... Become a new me is the plan, sexy, happy and content with life. The person I was 24 yrs ago when we met. The person he fell in love with... I know she is in me I just gotta drag her out.....

And of course a few well placed words in the right ears won't hurt either..... I have nothing to loose and a lot to gain by doing this. I have already lost the man and I have me to gain and maybe just maybe someday gain the man back.... If not life will still be good ....

Your last 2 posts show you have reached a turning point. Good place t/b. You will find this a support when you feel you are slipping. Expect the WS to turn on the charm and try to get you back into the hole of despair he likes to keep you in.

Remember it is the WS who wants to keep you down, emotionally battered and at his disposal. No WS wants to see their BS move forward. None of them.

Keep up the good work.

JMHO,
L.

Orchid,

Thanks for the advice. I will keep my eyes open and my ears to the wall.

I will not allow the WS to bring me back down. I want to bring him down , down to the pits of ******.....

I don't like being were I have been for months and I am getting outta there. I am starting to like me again and I know I deserve to be happy and treated with respect. WH will learn this as well... Repsect me or get out of the way...

He will see I am not being his puppet anymore or will allow him or OW to manipulate me any more... Let them squander in their fantasy land hovel... I am moving on up to the land of the living.....

Maybe someday WH will want to be in the land of the living again, who knows..... But once darn thing for sure I will be there long before him.....

Ok gotta get dressed now and do some moving and shaking lol


Oh yeah that reminds me I bought all new stuff for my bedroom last night... New comforter and shams, and curtains... gonna throw out all the stuff from before ... Will look like a new room without any thing the WH has seen or touched....

Forgot to mention something else DD told me about OW... Seems her favorite color is the same as mine and we like the same music and she plays on the pc a lot( the one thing WH used to get mad at me about) anyhow I find this all kinda funny. He wanted away from me so bad but found someone who likes and does a lot of the same things I do ... Smae crap just a different face ... Naming pets the same names as ours.... Sounds to me like someone is trying to remake our lives ...... to funny it won't work ...... I got the real thing

Way to go Hurtin, you are doing so good. I hope I will be at that point soon. I do feel alot better about myself and am not obsessing over wh as much. I still do miss and love him but I have a life too.

As for the bed stuff you bought... I did the same thing about a month ago and even bought a king size bed. My wh asked why I did that, I told him well...(leave that up to imagination)lol

I did the items in the 180s list that were issues for me--

Pre-last Dday:
I would often give lots of affection and get crumbs. I would answer the phone quickly or call him at work-- he'd rarely be available and NEVER call me while at work. ID email him all the time, leave notes, pretty much smother him trying to get his attention. His neglect and taking me for granted was extremely hurtful and fueled my depression. I wanted to lose weight but never got off my butt, and an attractive spouse is in his top 3. During our marriage I gained 70 pounds, but the month before my last Dday I had lost nine pounds and was very excited. I was a horrible housekeeper (thanks depression!).

After Dday and discovering MB and Divorcebusters:
Ended affection. Stopped calling, emailing, leaving notes. I woke up each day and cleaned the house. I was still gracious when speaking to him and smiled and laughed even if I was dying inside. In the three months after Dday lost 21 pounds and threw out clothes I had worn for FIVE years and he took me shopping. Instead of asking what he liked, which I had always tried to do, I bought what I wanted and what made me feel sexy.

Although we were in a false recovery (discovered before the end of that year), my changes drove him absolutely NUTS. NOt in a bad way, however, but suddenly he was chasing ME and not the other way around. Suddenly I became someone he couldn't be absolutely certain would stick around for any more of his crap. I began learning about myself and if anything, the 180s list is a wonderful tool for changing YOUR life and outlook.

180s MUST BE PERMANENT. Yes, there is a bit of satisfaction out of watching the WS get rattled-- I'd be lying if I said there wasn't any fun in that. This is not a game, though. Its a tool to change YOU and YOUR circumstances. If they are used specifically for game playing and are dropped as soon as the WS comes home, they'll see it as the manipulation it was used for.

I still rarely make the first call to my husband. I *DO* call him so he knows he is on my mind, but definately not as frequently as before Dday. I often allow the phone to ring and not answer if I have something Im doing (like the baby!). I used to drop ANYTHING, even something I was doing with the kids, to rush to the phone and get my fix. Not anymore. What was the response to backing off of him? My husband calls ME at least three times a day. My parents thought it was weird when he called me fives times a day when I was visiting them. I feel cared for by letting HIM take the initiative.

I will now buy clothing he likes, but I balance it with items that please me. I initiate affection on ocassion now (it wold be nuts not to after a two year recovery), but I notice when I'm smothering and I back off to give HIM the chance to chase. He asked me to have another baby last year, much to my shock. That was *his* 180. He went from never wanting another child to wanting his wife to have another. Best gift he ever gave me.

The 180s helped me become the woman I was meant to be. It made me more appealing than the boring, desperate housewife I had been. It was a lifestyle change. I didn't do it for my husband. I did it for myself.

Do it for you.

Mojo,

I am doing for myself. I dislike what I have become.

I want to be the person I used to be before the depression and all of this ...

I am making the changes for ME and me alone. Yes I won't lie I want him to see it and wonder.....

If/when he would ever want to be with me again I still will keep the changes I have made because they make me happy....

I have got to live again, I have been stale way to long. Yes I want my H to live it with me but thats his choice.

It may look like game playing to him at first but its not, its who I want to be and he will see that as well as the rest of the world.

You know even during my plan A I was not the one who initiated phone calls or contact that was always him. I always was pleasant and didn't always answer the phone for him. I will not make contact with him now either as I am in planb but with kids, family and friends I know he will hear of my changes.

I am becoming me again Mojo someone I have missed for a long time..... I deserve it and won't stop until I achieve it.....

This is for me and my happiness and if by chance WH wants to come along great, but I will continue the journey with or without him....

I liked doing the 180 so much...I kinda stayed this way...yea, lately I had been sick...done the stay at home/work/1000 percent mom thing...and now I am back in my mode where I start living again.

180 works great! Even if you're separated, dating, or married. I think it's best accomplished at THE END OF PLAN A....AND YOU KEEP DOING IT AS YOU SLIDE INTO PLAN B...That's just my thoughts.

I think it's best you leave Ws on a high note, then show them all the positive changes YOU are making..but at same time it makes them wary as YOU begin to show signs of moving on!

totally freaks ws out! and it still freaks my xh out when I get back in that mode...it's coming darth! you're warned ok?

Basically I see the plan as a license to stop traffic! it's great. I am doing a total dating plan B to d..the absent BF and will combine it with 180 tools! He doesn't know what's coming yet...but the man will know soon!

good for you hurting! you're getting it! and yes, your wh does not get it right now..but he will. keep dropping hints about your life. about reading...searching...wanting a new life...wanting to go to college...start hanging out with new people...go hip places...join book club. start reading "in style" magazine or cosmo. those two freaked out my xh. especially cosmo. trust me...if you go to a hip place with new "friends" for an after dinner drink (with girlfriends) and get all dressed up...you spill the beans to the gossips...and wait for the fireworks to fly! you basically pretend you are sooooo loving life...(remember, you fake it till you make it)and he will HATE IT..

suddenly it will dawn on the ws. HE is not free to date around...he is shacked up with some woman. NO free time. Nothing. Never got to see what freedom was. In fact you can spout these phrases to the gossips! I did. sure made darth frustrated. but you're not in same sitch either..mine was worse b/c the ow was determined to get pregnant. You could say...wow MIL. (around the gossips)...I know what it is like to not do the things you really wanted to do in life. I see that now. I am not gonna tie myself down..no mam. I am gonna have so much fun. I have been taking this ALL WRONG...My WH can have the shackled down life. I just want to be free! be the old me that I used to be. Learn new things...explore. Go to college...and yes! have friends and go out!

Say a few fogged out phrases like this to the gossips...make it appear you are SORRY for the poor WH who is shackled down with the OW. that YOU are the one getting freedom and you're about trying it out NOW!

One of my favorite lines I used on him...and one he quoted to me during his first separation this year..."You never were free darth. But now I am. In the end, you wanted this divorce, but I was the only one who got to really be single."

He remembered my words of two years ago!

But I think your wh will react more to it. The more he sees you slipping away...and he PERCEIVES HE IS SHACKLED DOWN...their affair will get more stress on it!

Imagine it...Suddenly wh finds out you are hanging out with friends at starbucks...you are reading books in public! you have joined book club. You went to martini happy hour and was looking HOT! You are going out and about! You have a job. You are making money...and the nerve of you! YOU ASKED WH FOR MONEY TO GO TO COLLEGE...next thing he could know is that you've found yourself a younger man..a la Demi Moore! He will start having fantasies about YOU doing this stuff. And he will start to feel UNHAPPY AND COOPED UP. Trust me! It causes SO MUCH LB'ING FROM AFAR!

But you can use it to your advantage right now...since the man waffled and wanted to come home...at least entertained the thought a month ago. This will work great.

Stay dark! NO direct communication.

and NEVER ASK THE GOSSIPS ABOUT WH..Just make comments every once in a while...how you feel sorry for the way he's living. how sad it must be to NEVER get the chance to really taste freedom...etc...NEVER ask about wh...it will confirm the 180 even more. HE must think he's losing you forever!

In fact, before court...go to the mall and get a free makeover from one of the pricey makeup counters...how's that for fun!

Meanwhile he will come home..to the tiny ill gotten apartment with ow. She will try to kiss up. And soon he will think...that was W's favorite color...that was our pet's name...that was the perfume my w wore...who IS THIS WOMAN NEAR ME? And who in the heck does my W think she is prancing around town and flaunting her freedom?

Make it turn...TURN IT ON HIM!

You can do it...all being dark...and all from afar. Just gotta plant the right seeds...and you gotta blossom yourself! But you can't back down...once u make these changes..you must stick to being a fearless female forever!

Hurting- with an attitude like that, there is absolutely no way you can fail! I was so happy to read your response.

2006 will be a better year. For me, Im looking for it to be the best one of my life.

Peachy,

I am sticking to it all..... I want to be that person....

I am going to be that person......

Onward and upward as they say, I have no where to go but up. I have been at the bottom for so long now....

Things are looking up thats for sure... My self-respect is coming back , I am starting to love me again ..... I had lost that so long ago and when he left like he did I had no self-worth I thought I worthless and unloveable because of who I had become.... I believed that for so many months. Now I see thats not true I am loveable and fun....

In a way what really helped me see this was people at work. I get good reviews and comments from co-workers they all like me and even some of the younger guys comment on how I look and act. They say things like your H must be crazy to leave someone like you... It made me realize wait a minute people who don't really know me see I am a good person so I must be....

It has brought my self-esteem back to the top. I like it there and its going to stay there..... Rock On Me!!!!!!

Life is for the living and thats what I am going to do live and enjoy it........

OH OH- I forgot to mention-- I personally would NOT wear anything my WH gave me to any meeting. I'd have all new bling.

Keep your wedding rings on....but be wicked and HIDE your left hand through the entire meeting and any unexpected meeting after that. Have fun seeing if he is trying to see if you are still wearing them.

Mojo,

You may be right, all new bling would make him wonder wouldn' it....

I can try and hide my left hand maybe a little tough though seeing how i am left handed...lol


I feel so refreshed and new ..... I have a plan for me and I love it......

Things are looking up ....

Hello 2006 , the year I become me again !!!!!!!!!

you sound like you are in a wonderful place oklahoma

I feel like I am Eav. I can;t sit around here anymore feeling sorry for myself, I have to live and be happy.

I pray for you Eav that you get to that point soon... It does not mean you give up on your H, you just have to live for you right now. Not saying it will be easy and not saying there won't be days of sadness but they will become less and less..... Be happy Eav fake till you make it.....

Had a vwer productive day .... Got some house cleaned up , put the new stuff in my bedroom , looks nice and its my favorite color purple....

Put on some music and sang and danced with DD first time in months I have done that. Even heard some songs that I couldn't listen to just a few wees ago and I didn' cry...

So what does all this mean??? Am I finally moving on and not caring anymore? Or is my mind and heart just in sync?

Kinda scary feeling so good, forgot what it feels like.....

Don't feel guilty but it is a feeling you haven't allowed yourself to feel in a long time. It belongs to you and you deserve to feel happy about yourself.

It's ok to laugh....your face won't break. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

LOL Orchid it might break been a long time since it smiled a real smile...

Still have that little hole in my heart though and that nagging little voice in my head that says think about it and fix it....

Really doing a pretty good job though at ignoring them....

Hi Hurting,
Wow!!! you are an inspiration!!! My husband and I are still together after his affair ended 16 months ago, but you make me feel like if it did all end, my life would still go on. I am sure your WH will be extremely jealous of your freedom and new life when he finds out, I am still happily married and I am jealous!!!
Good luck to you and have fun!!!
Reewil.

reewill,

Thank you for the nice compliment. Life will go on thats for sure. May not be the one I want but it will be happy again.

I still have hope and lots of it that my WH will become a H again someday. But in the meantime I still have to live and take care of my children and myself. I do miss him terriably and want him home but I know its not my choice.

Its hard getting to use to freedom after so many years of being with someone, and some days its good and others it just plain sucks. But in my heart of hearts I would prefer the marriage any day.

Good luck with your recvery and I hope you continue to have a wondeful marriage....


Hurting

I haven't been on much in the last few days but, it seems you have gotten to a really good place. You are an inspiration to me. I have been down for the last few days and today I'm feeling better.

It really does feel good to do things just for you and if our Hs don't come around it's their loss. Keep up the good work.

Newly,

I appreciate your kind words. I don't see myself as an inspiration to anyone. I am just a woman who's life has been ripped apart like so many of us here trying to make sense of the craziness.

Trying to make a life worth living for myself and my children. I am still a long ways away from achieving that but getting there a little each day.

I just came from my IC and she said I am like the man who see's the bridge out up ahead and stands in the road trying to warn people , some ignor the warning and fall into the river and drown. I am warning my H of the danger but he is ignoring it and I am just going to have to let him fall into the river. Like she said no matter how hard I have tried to save him the warnings go unheeded so I have got to stop and let him fall.

In the meantime I have got to move ahead and work on being happy without him. It sure is hard to do but I am determined to do it.

Tomorrow is the meeting with my attorney to prepare for this mediation thing. I am nervous about this whole thing. I am still unsure what to do. Fight him every step of the way or just let go..... I won't walk away without what I need but is fighting it worth it to me in the end, I just don't know....


Hurting

Ok tomorrow I meet with my attorney to prepare for mediation.

This is the list I have made please look it over and see if I missed anything I need to ask for:

1: 1/2 of 401K

2: Custody of DS with CS continuing until graduation from high school ( DS will turn 19 senior year)

3: Life insurance policy with me as owner to insure CS and Alimony if something should happen to WH

4: Alimony

5: Car signed over to me

6: College money for DS and myself ( to get a better job)

7: No overnight visits with DS as long as with OW living in sin

8: Half the value of the car he just bought with marital money (he will have 2 vehciles compared to my one)

Is there anything else I need to add? I just don't know what all I am entitled to

... I have no idea ... I've never had to do this


BUT

I think it might be wise to put in a couple of pie-in-the-sky requests ... so that during the proceeding, you can "let go" of a few things (things you never expected to actually get anyway)

I can't imagine what that would be pep but maybe I can think of something....

I already know he won't agree to all of this ... But I am not backing down these are the things he at least owes me for 24 yrs of marriage were I have stood beside him , loved him and was faithful.....

Hey Hurting,

I think we are in the same boat, but a friend told me to go for more than I want so that way there would be room to negotiate. Ex: $1000/month spousal when you really can live with $750. Or spousal support for 10 years when you can live with 3-5 yrs. Something like that. I think that is what Pep meant also.

Lashell,

Ok thanks that sounds like a good plan... Go for it all and this way I have room to move.....

Hi Hurting,
You may not think you are an inspiration to anyone, BUT YOU ARE!!! I too had been feeling down for days but when I read your posts yesterday it lifted me so high I feel like I could touch the sky (corny eh?, but that's I feel). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I am feeling wonderful at the moment and I owe it to you!!!
Reewil xoxox. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> [color:"blue"] [/color]

Exactly, I'm doing the same thing.

What about medical stuff, are you covered on WH's policy??

Will DS need braces?

Will you file jointly or seperately on taxes this year?

Will WH or you get the tax deduction for kids.

[b] egg zak lee

like pricing items for a garage sale ... price waaaay above what you want so there is room to "come down" without really losing anythng of value

Yeah that part has been done as far as the house stuff goes.... He wants nothing from the house except his personal stuff and one item of furniture, which he can have....

As far as the medical goes when he started this new job he has not gotten medical yet because of 90 day waiting period. I am making sure DS is put on it but I wold say if w e divorce I can't be on it. Now if it stays LS I think he could be made to put me on it.... I don't know for sure...

Taxes is something I am going to discuss tomorrow with the attorney as well. If I can file without him thats my plan and I am going to use the deduction for DS. WH has been gone almost 7 months and just now started paying CS so I don't think he deserves the deduction. He has not lived with us since the beginning of July.... I will see what the attorney says is th best thing to do....

I really hate my life has come down to dollars and cents now... But I am hoping this will help with a reality check for WH. At least a start of things becoming real for him.....

Anybody else have any idea on my list? My aptt. is at 11 am and I want to make sure I have all bases covered.....

you get the deductions.

even darth gave them to me.

Sweetheart, all things happen to each and every one of us for a reason. I truly believe this with all my heart.
There is a reason why a mothers child is killed by a drunk driver. She goes on to form one of the strongest legal lobbies in the country to change drunk driving laws. There is a reason why children are aflicted by a crippling disease called polio, it gives a doctor the motivation he needs to come up with a vaccine to thwart this disease. There is a reason why a boy is tormented and bullied his entire childhood, he raises the most compassionate and loving young woman he could ever hope for. There is a reason why a Fathers Son was nailed to the cross.
And there is a reason why you are still fighting!
And might I suggest something if I may, for your appointment with the court. A special sheer bra to go with that sweater. Something from Victoria's. It is cold in Okla. right now, correct? You get my drift. Sure to make hubby notice, right? I am not being crude here. Just trying to let you know what works.
The list? Top notch. And you should get it too!

My prayers and hopes for you!

BKarl,

Thanks for posting. I am glad the list is good. I want him to realize just what he is doing and going to lose.

I really wonder why I am still fighting. I know I still love him no matter what all has happened. He seems so sure this is what he wants. So why am I fighting so hard for someone who does not care?

Was kind of funny today , my daughter had a bad electrcal plug in he room and it sparked and blew out the breaker. So I was telling her I could fix it. She said no you can't , I said watch me. So I cut the main breaker off and took out the old plug and replaced it with a new one. Of course it worked and she was amazed. Well as I was doing this she was talking to WH on the phone and was bragging to him I fixed the wall plug. So he says of course your mom can do it she has watched me do it many times.

So then she tells him well we are going out to eat tonight.He says who so she tells him DD, DS ,DD'S boyfriend , his mom and sister and myself. He says or really and she says yup. So then of course he questions as to where and all. Well he is in wyoming so was no worry of him showing up.

He also while on the phone request to speak to our dogs. So each dog listens and he talks to them and of course they go nuts hearing his voice. Thats also something I am requesting we not split the dogs up. They have been a little family for yrs. Its the mama, daddy and their 2 boys. He wants 2 of them but it would not be fair to split them up. And anyway he got a kitten and named it the same name as our female dog.

As far as the undergarmets go I get your drift but believe me that is the one thing he still to this day will tell anyone who will listen.... He is sexually attracted to me and always will be..... I know for a fact if I was to call him for that he would come.... But it ain't happening not as long as he is with the bimbo....

I am going tomorrow and getting my hair cut , so I will go to court sporting a whole new look..... Clothes, makeup, jewlry and the hair..... I am gonna make the bimbo look like the dumpy thing she is , in that respect she can't hold a candle to me.... Not that I am a beauty or anything but she is definatley not attractive....

I know he is not going to agree to anything on this list so I am preparing for a court battle. Maybe if I am lucky it can cause some problems at home for him with OW.

Plus I bought so much new stuff for the house in the last few days. Bedroom looks brand new nothing like it did when he was here. All new bathroom stuff.... He won't be able to see it because of planb but he will sure hear about it... I have people who love to talk and tell him everything.... I want him to see that things are changing and I am not sitting around waiting on him.....

Wow I sure didn't mean to make such a long post but here it all is ....

Thanks BKarl for checking in and for the encouragment ..

Hurting

Meeting with the attorney in one hour...... Gonna give him my list of things I want....

Please pray that everything I ask for will be things that are attainable.....

I don't want my marriage to end , but seems it will....

I am so scared of this stuff and that my WH is gone forever... Next week on Wed. is the mediation ,I wish I didn't have to see WH .....

My mind is so scrammbled right now with all of this stuff....

hurting

your list looks good

make sure that you get IN WRITNG that your H agrees to give up everything in the house except for that one item

don't forget to include these kinds of items in case he has them and you don't know: stock options, safety deposit box items or personal savings/checking (ask for value so you can ask for 1/2 if he had been taking money prior to leaving without your knowledge)

good luck hurting

Hurtin,

You will be able to file Head of Household as long as you have been separated for 6 months or have a separate maintenance agreement in place, so you should be okay there. I on the other hand will probably file married filing separate because I don't meet those qualifications. Too bad for me. Good luck today with your meeting.

Thanks for the info guys ..... I appreciate it....

Eav he was taking no money before he left because I had access to all accounts then and knew what his pay was. I still had acess up until the end of sept. when he started the new job and opened a new bank account... We have none of the other things you mentioned.

I just so don't want this to happen but seems I have no choice and now my life consists of $$$ and splitting everything we worked so hard for , for 24 yrs.... I wish I could give him half of my pain and agony I have had for 7 months...Thats the one thing I would love to split with him...

Just the thought that OW wil even touch some of the things I have worked for makes me sick..... Bad enough she has my H but now she is going to have things we shared together... I hope everytime she looks at something that was in my home she will see my face....

God I hate this ....

I just got home from the attorney.

It's not good news for me..... If we come to an agreement next Wed. during mediation I will walk out of there a divorced woman....

Nothing I can do to slow this down except not agree on anything... Then its up to the judge.

My attorney is going to ask for all I want but he says we probably won't get it even with a judge.

The adultry plays no part in this unless WH was seeking custody which he isn't. No even joint custody was in his papers.

I did dispute his living expenses though due to it being her apt. and utlities before WH was even there....

Since there is no custody dispute the 90 days thing does not count.... So he filed on the 22 of Dec. and by Jan11. I could be divorced....

I just can't believe how fast this happened and how he changed his mind from one week to the next....

There is nothing I can do now.... I have no choices in how this plays out ....

I hate him for this ,,, how could he throw away our lives so easy.....

{{{Hurting}}}

I'm so sorry about how quickly this is going... but it isn't over yet. Thinking of you.

Alph.

Alphin,

Thank you for your words, but I feel like its over.

I don't think he will ever come back now.

OW is who he wants and I guess I need to get out of the fog myself and see it for what it is.....

He just does not care about me anymore.

I am just so hurt that he could walk away like that and never even try to save us... We used to be so good together and could be again if he would just try....

I just feel like my life is so out of control now.... What am I going to do????

I am still in a state of shock this is happening so fast... I really thought I would have soem time but in Okla... its way to easy .... All he has to say to a judge is the marriage is broken down and never can be fixed and the judge says ok basically .... I don't have to say a word....

I just can't stop crying ....

{{{{HURTIN}}}}

Thinking of you. Remember what you told me and others on this board... I ain't over yet!!! Keep your chin up, I will be praying for you. Remember God has a plan and look at how far you have come through all of this mess!!! You are a better person and can accomplish anything you set your mind to.

I can't believe how fast a divorce can happen either Hurting. Your contesting divorce has to mean something to a judge. Either way, your refusing divorce until the end will show WH that you fought for your marriage, and then let it be the judges decision.


Did he mention he has living expenses at OW's?

I'm sorry Hurting, like your therapist said all you can do is sit back and let him fall I guess. You've done all you can do up to this point to save. It's not over yet though. The judge may not agree to give "him" a divorce. We'll see.

Huggs,
Lady

(((Hurting)))

isn't it awful hurting!!!

a marraige really means nothing to our H or the courts... only to us and God

hugs

Lady,


Yes he claimed rent and the utlities of her apt. I told the attorney that she lives in low income and has lived there for years and the utlities are in her name not his....

As far as a judge not granting the divorce that won't happen. All WH has to say is its broken and unfixable and its over.... My attorney told me all the judge cares about is getting to the next case..... This whole thing sucks...

Me contesting won't do a thing for me at all..... I told the attorney I don't won't this and he said all I can do is not agree on anything but in the end the outcome is the same... Just cost me more dollars I don't have.... No one cares what he has done or how he left us to suffer for so many months ..... It does not matter except for the custody issue and since he is not seekig custody in any way none of this matters......

So in the long run he is basically walking away scott free with no consequenses for any of this ...... Just some money gone thats its..... I have suffered such pain and he gets away with it all......

isn't it so sad...just to name a very few: me, you, and Jean

fighting so hard for our love to men who are treating us as though we were a mistake-trash they want to throw away as fast as they can...and it's "all our fault"

what have we done to deserve this

and honestly.....what have they done to deserve us?

real love...the kind that we've given to these men, is so rare....i wish they could see that through the fog of lust

What about giving the judge a copy of your Plan B letter?
That might really make it difficult for him to grant a decision for divorce. I think if your lawyer stresses the fact that possibly within a year WH and OW relationship just might go to He!!, maybe the judge will give it time before granting a divorce. Make it difficult for WH. This isn't a drive-through divorce court WH!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Lady

I agree eav...... I hope someday he falls on his face and just suffers half the pain I have.....

I hope the OW uses him and throws him away like he did me ....

And by chance if they stay together I hope its so miserable they end up hating each other .....

I am just angry right now......

I have nothing left to loose now.... So WH may be getting a phone call from me ..... I am still thinking on it about what I want to say to him ....

Lady,

I don't really think any of that will matter.... My attorney knows as well as his does this is an affair. My attorney says its a MLC, in fact he asked me when this all ends will you want him back? My attorney was shocked though how quickly he signed the sivorce papers after saying on the 9 of Dec. he didn't want to .... He said within a week and a half he changed his mind that was quick ...

It does not matter he is a WH or fogged out the court don't care.... The answer would be get remarried but they won't hold up the divorce since he wants it .....

Hurting -

So sorry to hear this. I guess your best bet is to ask for all you want, and if your husband is desperate enough, he will give it to you.

We all know that the affair will never last, but YIKES! you might be divorced before it ends. So you will have to make a plan for after the divorce. You can always remarry. Several folks here have done that.

It's all so crazy isn't Hurting. But I still think you should have a say. You are the one who filed first for LS.
The judge has to take into account your side, that you don't want a divorce.

I mean how often does a judge hear "I refuse to divorce that man!!"

He probably doesn't see many spouses trying to save thier marriage.

You and your lawyer have to argue to the judge that you "only" want a legal separation.

Your lawyer has to give the judge a good reasoning on why you do not want a divorce granted, and that is on the fact that OW and WH's relationship may not work out. He's been back and forth with you since June. You are just waiting for him to come home and do away with OW forever!!! That WH makes spur of the moments decisions, and he is not in his right mind wanting the divorce from one minute to the next. Tell the judge WH is "temporarily or permanently insane." And ask if the judge would order him into a mental institution for a while until he is better!!!

Lady

Hurting - I just wanted to tell you that I am sorry. You have done all the right things. You can't change the way your WH is thinking. This divorce is his mistake to make. He is the one who will have to live with the consequences.

I say look at it as a blessing. You are still young, healthy, have your children, and you have a good clean conscience to know you did all the right things. Your WH will be eaten away with guilt his whole life for what he did to you and your family.

I say take the high road as you have always done. I would look him straight in the eye and tell him that I do not want a divorce and that he is making the biggest mistake of his life. Then you can walk away.

In my opinion, as hard as it is, at this point in your life you need to let him go and look towards the future. You have a very bright future. You are a smart, classy lady! Never sell yourself short and always remember that!!

Hugs to you from NYC!

DON'T CALL HIM Hurting. I'm so sorry about what you are going through remember we are in the same boat, I think my D is going to take longer b/c of the kids (there are 5 and they are still so young).

PLEASE PLEASE don't call him you would just be giving away your power and all that you worked for to this point. Remember that it is not over yet. There is still hope, I know it doesn't seem like there is but there is.

DONT CALL HIM. ABSOLUTELY NOT.

He will get a sick thrill out of it, I assure you.

((HURTING)))

I agree with Mojo...don't do it Hurting. Don't call him. That's what he wants, so he can laugh in your face. Don't give him the sick pleasure. He will not care. It will only set you back. Huggs.

Lady

I'm not going to call him. Its not worth it to me....

I'm not even sure I will see him next Wed. they will have us in seperate rooms like before. I may just see him in passing and thats it.

If we don't agree we won't see the judge I don't think that day, since its just a mediation meeting. I really don't know.

This is all just so overwhelming. I don't know what to think. I sometimes f eel if he goes through with this he will feel he could never come back. Someone said to me maybe he just does not want ot be married any more and this was his way out. Well I don't buy that he didn't have to have an affair to leave if he just didn't want to be married. It would have hurt a lot less if he had just left wthout going to another woman...

I don't know what to think anymore....... I am so confused myself.... I just want this all to stop........

I just came from my MIL she is devestated as well she can't believe how fast this will happen..... I have not told the kids yet and I don't plan to right now..... I am going to wait until after the mediation.... DS will be devestated he wants his dad home so bad......

I was wondering do any of you think I should still make the appointment with the Harley's?

Since this looks like its going to divorce would it even do me any good?

I wish I could have called them so much sooner but now is the time I have the money, I guess a day late and a dollar short....

He filed on 12-22 and you are already in mediation for division of assests and support issues? Don't the lawyers out there have anything else to do? Did you tell your lawyer that you were not eager for this divorce and you wanted to go at a slow pace?

Maybe you can have your attny cancel the mediation, and reschedule it later. Certainly there is some prep work that needs to be done. You have 30 days to file your financial affidavits, is that completed already?

And no, it is not to late to call the Harleys. Even if it is just for a plan for you.

.

Tom,

All of the financial stuff is done, it was done for LS.

I told the lawyer I didn't want this but nothing I can do to stall it out except not come to an agreement on Wed. and then it would be in front of th judge fairly quick ...

In Okla. if there is no custody issues or finanacial issues a D can be granted as soon as 10 days of filing....

Okla is a very easy state to get D in.....

So I really have no choices in this matter. Since he is not going for any cutody unless he changes his mind by Wed. and he agrees to my Alimony and such it will be all over...

I never would have thought it would be so easy for him to do this..... We don't have much in assetts so there was not much to argue over. Only thing I think he will not like is the division of his 401K but he does not have much choice with it..... I am entitled by law for that ......

I'm so sorry to hear that. I thought Fla. divorce laws stunk, but that those divorce laws are just plain anti-Marriage. ******, it takes a 30 day notice to cancel you lease, but you can cancel a marriage in 10 days.

Take care of yourself.

Hurting...do you remember my post to you not too long ago. Having been through the mediation circus, it suddenly occured to me that what could they do to me if on mediation morning, I was just too sick to make it there. (both of our attorneys cancelled a few times as well as mediator) Put me in mediation jail? Nope, doesn't exist. There's ways to delay this a bit. If you're hoping a little more time and thought may make a difference. I too agree with your attorney that this has happened too quickly.

jph,

I really don't think any more time will make a difference in this....

What difference would a couple of weeks make none I don't think.....

I will just go and see what happens. Now if I don't like whats offered I will not settle and then we can just see the judge....

I really don't want this but I think me dragging it out will actually do more harm for myself than anything else.

If/when he ever gets it maybe I will still be willing to work on us. But I am really beginning to think he won't get it anytime soon.... I have to move on with my life without him as much as I don't want to... He wants to be free so I will just let him have his freedom to be with the skank.... And when it falls apart he will have no one to blame but himself.... And if their relationship survives ti will only be from not wanting to hear I told you so....

I am tired and just can't or won't fight this anymore... It will happen no matter what I do and stalling will just delay the story that will have the same ending either way .

If it happens hurting, don't forget that there are couples that remarry. WH is rushing because he is worried he will change his mind and he has the OW pushing him as well.

A part of me wonders if he is also trying to make you beg to stop it.

Just follow the court plan (looking great, chin up, proud manner) and remember that you are only in control of YOU. YOU know this entire thing is stupidity. He'll figure it out soon enough. FatihInMe's XH still tries to reconnect with her and she's remarried. Isn't that a scream?

Yes, you're right. A few more weeks more than likely won't help. Faithinme is quite an inspiration and look how happy she is now. I'll remember to pray for you...

((( Hurting )))

I feel so bad for you. If this is any comfort to you, please remember --

What goes around - Comes around !!!

He will get his. She will get hers.

And - Since you have done nothing but good -

Good will come to you.


Best regards - carnation

Mojo,

I believe he is rushing it because he is still unsure. Or at least thats what I want to believe. I know OW is pushing that I have no doubt about....

If he wants me to beg that won't happen.... I will let this crziness play out before I beg him.....

DD talked to him this evening while we were in th car, he didn't know she was with me. They were talking about this , he asked her what did I tell her, she said mom said she may come home next wed. a divorced woman. He said no she will be a divorced woman because ti will be final. So I guess in his head he thinks I will agree to whatever he wants.

Now I could hear his voice so I heard everything he said. He said he would tell DS... Thats good because I want to deal with the fallout of the intial shock... So then in the next breath he is asking DD where is your mom, what is she doing? DD told him she is home cleaning....

I just feel like he is trying so hard to hate me and convince himself of it.... I am doing better tonight I think I have come to accept nothing I can do about it.... I will tell you though I do dread next Wed. one more week of being legally married for 24 yrs. then its over....

How sad........... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

Thanks to all of you for the support you have given me over these many months..... I truly never thought it would go this far.....

I appreciate all of you so much ....

I read this somewhere on MB a long time back when I first came here. Believe none of what they say and half of what they do.

It really is accurate.

Good luck

Hurting - I just wanted to tell you that I am sorry. You have done all the right things. You can't change the way your WH is thinking. This divorce is his mistake to make. He is the one who will have to live with the consequences.

I say look at it as a blessing. You are still young, healthy, have your children, and you have a good clean conscience to know you did all the right things. Your WH will be eaten away with guilt his whole life for what he did to you and your family.

I say take the high road as you have always done. I would look him straight in the eye and tell him that I do not want a divorce and that he is making the biggest mistake of his life. Then you can walk away.

In my opinion, as hard as it is, at this point in your life you need to let him go and look towards the future. You have a very bright future. You are a smart, classy lady! Never sell yourself short and always remember that!!

Hugs to you from NYC!

--------------------
Lost in the City

Hi Hurting,
Ditto to what Lost in the City says. Hang in there, I know you can do it.
Thinking of you,
Reewil.

Tom,

You know whats funny about that saying is when he has said things about being with me and wanting our marriage nothing ever came out of it.. But when he talked getting the divorce he did it.... So not sure if that applies here really....

He seems sure of the negative stuff and does what he says but the positive stuff blows away in the wind like a balloon....

Something ele to add with his conversation with DD. DD gets money every 4 months from and annuity anyhow she recieved it the first of Jan. nice little sum of money. Well we put it in my account at the bank this way she won't just blow it away. Well WH was asking her would she give him the money to buy a stero for his car. Now this same man asked her back in Aug. for the same thing but for his truck he didn't get it then and he aint getting it now... Anyhow she told him I am doing the best I can dad, he got angry and said to her Well just forget it then. ... He knows this money is in my account because she told him... If he thinks I will go get out money for her to give him he is sadly mistaken....

He is a man who is late on his CS and SS by 3 days and he wants DD'S money for a stero.... Priority's were are his ???? I told DD he was not getting the money because I refuse to take it out of the bank..... Sucks to be him ..

I am really having a hard time tonight. I still can't believe this is really happening.... I feel like i am in a bad dream and can't wake up....

How do you go from love to hate so fast? Destroy a whole family and 24 years just wiped out in the blind of an eye...

I have done all the right things and tried so hard but he still believes that OW is the one he should be with.....

I just feel so used and thrown away..... Why can't I hate him???? It would be so much easier.....

Aww, Hurting, I'm so sorry.

I so wish there was something we could say or do to make you feel better.

I think he exemplifies the Alien.

I don't want else to do, but send you some e-hugs (((Hurting)))

it does hurt that bad oklahoma and it makes no sense

i wish i could think of a way to help you buy more time

Thanks Eav but I don't think buying time would do me any good right now..... He is determined about this .....He seems so sure this is what he needs and wants....

You can;t argue with the insane, it gets you nowhere....

Hurting -

This is so going to be his loss. Just remember Peachy's stories. Her xH is not happy at all. And he and the wifey fight. Fantasyland is gone, gone, gone.

I am so sorry you are in such pain. And to ask for money when he is late on CS & SS? Unbelievable. My WH says he is hurting with cc bills, yet he takes DS to the zoo & to other high priced places. They just can't think straight.

{{{{Hurting}}}} My prayers are with you - may you reach a place of peace.

Kim

Thanks Kim......

I hope he does regret this someday.....

I have not been writing to you because I don't have the words to say all that I want to say about this..

Affairs are AWFUL...YUK!!!

Hurtin

I have been thinking of you all night. I felt sick to my stomach when I read your post. You have done everything right and everything you can do. He is the one who is going to loose everything for some fantasy. Don't forget you are a strong woman and you can make it anyway this turns out. I'll keep you in my prayers.

Mimi,

There are no words to describe this .... I can't even describe how I feel right now.....

Its over and nothing I can say or do to change it.....

World,

I don't feel so strong right now. I guess I knew it would come to this but I kept holding on to that little bit of hope that things would turn around... I was such a fool to believe this would ever turn around....

I just noticed your topic change..

OF COURSE YOU SHOULD CALL THE HARLEYS IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY..

Steve would have ideas on how you should proceed to stall this if you can...

Would I be able to get an appt. soon enough? The mediation is next Wed.

Only thing I can do is not except any offer he gives.... But I am not sure if it would go to the judge that day or a later date

I would think you can get an appt. by then. Call tomorrow first thing.

I will Mimi ... first thing in th morning ... I hope they can help me

hurting,

isn't there any set time that you must live apart in your state before you can get a D?

No Eav ..... you can live together today go file tomorrow and be divorced in as little as 10 days barring no conflicts .....

really sucks .....

that is just so wrong oklahoma

if that were the cse in my state, my H would have divorced me 3 months after he left...but then he talked about coming home3 months later....that's just too short of a time for anyone to be sure!!

I know Eav, it really sucks..... Its like Oklahoma does not care at all.....

I just don't understand how they can make it so easy for people to just walk away like that..... I could understand for abuse of some type but for something like this or just because you may get angry one day its crazy ...

But to be honest Eav I do believe this is over for me and I have to just move on..... I can't believe my life has come to this and after giving this man half of my life and 3 children he can walk away so easy....

Okla,

IMHO, I think you need to slip this info into whatever meeting you have next with whatever legal ears will listen. Even if on this reason alone, after his stupid A fiasco, the very fact he can ask this of his child is insane. Let the insanity manifest itself. Give it an audience...... a decision making audience. Something like:

[color:"blue"]

Mediator/judge: Mrs. Hurting, have you read the terms of this meeting?

BS: Yes, I have. It certainly not in favor of our family's benefit but it certainly matches the current warped state of mind which has lead to these actions.

Mediator/judge: Would you clarify that statement?

BS: Certainly...... you are here to mediate/render fair judgement in behalf of this case. Yet (just for starters) you are aware that you are taking the word of a man who has left his family destitute, neglected to provide even child support, went to live in low income housing as an unqualified resident, has asked his children to buy him entertainment devices like a stereo when they can't even afford school clothes and other necessities, when their own home went without hot water and phone for an extended period of time. I realize you have to grant the D. It should be done since living with one of such questionable character is dangerous for my family and I. What I have a hard time figuring out is how you can condone his actions by giving him what he is asking for under the disguise of doing what is best for our family. I was hoping the court w/b more intuitive than that.

Mediator/judge: Point well taken. No we were not aware of such details. Yes, we do have to grant the petition but keeping the family's interest at heart is within the court's jurisdiction.

BS: Thank you for your consideration. I would hate to remember the court as giving what belongs to my family to someone who is blatantly breaking civil codes by living in housing meant for those who are really having a hard time vs enabling affairs. You may not catch them all but you don't have to let them all get away with it, right?

Mediator/judge: Yes, u r correct. Now back to the details of this agreements....let's review it again.......[/color]

*************

Something like that.

L.

Orchid,

Sounds good to me but the only problem is the mediators are our attorneys. So not sure how well that will work.

Only way I will get in front of a judge is if we don't come to an agreement Wed.

I tell you Okla. is screwy with this stuff.... But I will let my attorney know this information , not sure what good it will do though .

Is there a way you can plead with the mediators and/or judge that you both go to at least 8 sessions of MC before the D...for co-parenting? And set it up with the Harley's?

Ok appt. wih Steve on the 10 day before mediation.....

I did the Love bank inventory thing..... I am so praying that he can help.....

I don't know Still..... I have tried to mention that to my attorney and he says Okla. won't do it...

I truly believe the only thing I can do is not agree on Wed. and hope and pray to get before a judge and state my case and hope that the judge will make something happen...

But in all honesty they don't care.....

Yes, lawyer says judge and state won't go for it, but during mediation it's not up to judge or state...it's up to WH to agree to it. You can ask for ANYTHING...doesn't mean he will agree to it, but you lose nothing by asking...and possibly gain by asking...

He may agree because he secretly wants to stay M and is Ding to appease OW. If he HAS to agree to MC then he can go back to OW and blame YOU for his continued contact with you...it's a way to give him an out...

How do you work MC into a Plan B? That is a tough one, and one you can talk over with Steve. A firm Plan B is the best, but every case is different, and I have read on here some of the advice he has given folks to apply a modified Plan B...I wouldn't recommend it except under the Harley's advice...

I will mention this to Steve and see what he says ..... If he thinks its a good idea I will then ask for it during the mediation... I don't think WH will go for it but I'll try ....

Hurting,
There is a huge downside for him to a quickie divorce. He cannot be certain it is what he wants. He thinks he does, but KNOW in your heart of hearts, that he has doubts. When this divorce is final and sinks in he is going to gulp and say, HS I hope I did the right thing. Then his mind is going to start to eat away at him.

Good luck with the Harleys.

Shattered,

I hope your right about that.... I know it is all happening so fast. I was shocked to learn it could happen this fast. He just seems so sure of it...

Only time will tell....

Hurting, I was thinking about you today on my way home from work. I was almost home before I realized that I was actually feeling optimistic in a pestimistic kind of way. By nature, I'm a "glass half full" kind of girl. While I believe in and practice the MB way, I perhaps have different thoughts than some here.

In the BIG letters up on the movie marquette, what I read is "HURTINGINOKLA'S WH IS H*LLBENT ON DIVORCE". You can try all the stalling mechanisms you can but my opinion is that, at this point, nothing is going to stop it. It's like a giant fart. It's going to be a silent-but-deadly slow one or a loud, rippin' one. Either way, it's going to stink. Either way, you are going to feel some relief from the bloat.

I know that you don't want to be divorced. None of us BS want to be divorced. It seems like it's thrust upon we BS or we come to a point where we cannot take it anymore or we string it out for ages. We put a lot of time, energy, agony and blood into our WS. Our love banks are drained. Our lives are in shambles and limbo. We try hard but the BS is only one part of the equation. (Everything a BS can give + not much from a WS) - (all the stress and worry)=??????? Sometimes we move into recovery, sometimes we don't.

So what do I see to be positive?

Well, for one thing the more you fight this divorce, the more it's going to cost you. It's like ripping the bandaid off fast. If the writing is on the wall, read it.

I suggest you use WH's blazing desire to divorce to your advantage. Ask for the Moon and the Sky, his right arm and left nut. I'm betting you can change your demands up until you hit mediation and probably get just about anything you want and more. Don't be fair. Get as much as you can. If WH really wants to get divorced, you'll get it.

Hurting, you've fought the good fight. If divorce happens, take it on your terms. Don't think of it as a rejection, think of it as a release. You've tried very hard. You can take the energy that went into this valiant fight and channel it into something more productive. Not that trying to save your marriage isn't productive. Heck, I'm there.

You will no longer need to be walking on eggs. You will be getting the financial support you are legally entitled to. You will have a sense of closure. What's done, will be done and you can move on.

My intuition tells me that this divorce is very premature on your husband's part. It hasn't even been a year. He's getting pressure from we know where. Your message has always been loud and clear that you do not want a divorce. Some day, the fog may lift. I doubt it will miraculously happen in the next 10 days. He will realize what an idiot he's been and all of the associated self-flagellating thoughts. And I hope it hurts badly. At that point, you may or more likely not be there for him. If the fog never lifts, you've been spared a lot of stringing along.

I imagine I might be getting a few 2x4's for this post. Ya never know around here. You are not giving up, you are changing your tact. My wish is that you go into this from a position of strength. Not the "Boo hoo, it's over" but rather "I've done my best to prevent what I don't want but if you want a D, you B-----d, I will do it with dignity."

(((((((hurting)))))))))

GG,

You know as I was reading your post it brought me to tears because deep down inside me I know you may be right.

I never wanted to admit that to myself and still don't. My brother said almost the same thing to me yesterday. He told me that WH played me all these months because he made his descion when he walked out the door the last time.... Maybe I was just blind to see it.... I don't know.

I guess because I am the person who hope springs eternal for, I just kept beliveing that there was no way he could not care anymore. You just don't love someone and live with them for 24 years and walk away with no feelings at all. I personally could never do that so I have a hard time comprehending anyone would....

I don't know what the future holds for me or him but the hope is still here as deluded as it may be.... I still pray he will realize what he has done.

I know I can't stop this divorce but I will not back down from what I want. We will just see how bad he wants this... If he wants it bad enough then he will give me what I want to get it.

I will be ok thats for sure but my heart breaks a little more each day that this goes on.

Good heavens. Charming turn-of-phrase you have, grape.



Been there, done that.

I think this is good advice, grape. Hurting needs to move quickly to put her own financial considerations first and foremost now.

You stayed behind, you warned the wildfire was coming, you waved your arms, called the fire department and the police. He didn't listen. Now it's time to get the pets and kids in the car and pull out of town. And don't look back.

One of the best pieces of advice I got was "Use this energy to see with." I think you'll be seeing this all very differently a year from now.

Some days I feel the same way about my WH. It's been over a year since he moved out. He doesn't live with OW, at least as far as I know. He has little contact with his kids. But as friend of mine said about 3 months after D-day, "Honey, face it, he's checked out of your family."

A big part of me is aching for closure. I want to know why, after 28, now 29 years of marriage, 3 kids and a lot of good times, he has thrown it away. Why is our marriage of no value? Why are our children not worth being around? When and how did he decide I was such a bad person? Was this an exit affair or was he trapped? How long has he perceived he felt unhappy? What are his EN? He means so much to me. Is what we have built for so many years built on a garbage dump?

Do you know what I mean? Nobody wants to admit this kind of stuff to themselves. It's somewhere in the stages of grief.

I suggest you ask for all of his 401K. He has a decent job and will be able to rebuild his retirement funds. You will always be playing catch-up. There is no guarentee you will be able to get any part of his Social Security. Ask for PERMANENT spousal support. Health and dental insurance. Ask for your continuing education to be paid for to get your B.S. or B.A. and express your desire for a graduate degree. Get a new car. Factor in the need for a vacation when you go on a cross-country tour of all your MB friends. Oh yes, and more than a pound of flesh.

We will survive. We will grow. We will have honor.

GG,

That all sounds wonderful but I will tell you its all a dream.

I asked for the insurance and was told that once divorced I can't have it. I asked for life insurance to provide in case for CS and SS I was told here most judges won't grant it. The longest I can get SS/Alimony is for 10 years.

I can't even get money for DS for college more or less me.... IN Okla the laws are so screwy they don't give a crap. How many states do you know you can be divorced in as little as 10 days.... Adultry can be used as ground but they will only count if the person committing adultry is going for custody of a minor child... Everything else is 50/50 ... No/fault crap sucks, it does not matter he left us and we did without a lot things, they don't care....

Believe me I tried with all of this only to be told it won't happen.... I looked on line and pretty much saw all of this stuff... Now if someone here knows something I don't please tell me and I will check it out....

I am the one who got treated so bad and will really walk away without anything to show for a 24 yr marriage. The person who struggled with this man and raised 3 children and stood by him all these years only to be tossed aside by him and the court system like I don't count at all....

The court wants to be fair, none of this is fair. He gets to walk away with loosing a little money and still has a good paying job and does not have t worry about the future. I on th other hand don't have a college education not that I am stupid but I was raising babies taking care of home and him. And now I will have t worry do I have enough money to py the light bill or what ever....

I don't have anyone to hold me at night so I can have comfort, I have nothing left anymore. I have to leave my home I have lived in for 17 years and move to an apt. or some other place I probably won't be able to afford. I am the one slinging hamburgers now to make ends meet.

Does the court or some judge care about this? Heck no they don't they don't care myself and my children will now have our standard of living go way down, while the WH is still all cozy and happy....

So try as I might to get what I want it will never happen, the law does not care......

I have only been to Oklahoma once in my life. It was a hit-and-run trip for a sporting event. So, I don't know much about the state except for the fact I couldn't believe that all the highways into Tulsa were toll roads. I perceive Oklahoma to be conservative, religious and family-oriented. Who'd thunk about their divorce laws?

I always tell my kids not to make a problem, make a solution. This is a state whose divorce laws are demanding a change. Are OK wives suppose to be buried in their husband's tombs...alive? Can you actually own property? Where did these laws come from and who benefited? Back in the day, did some lawmaker want to marry his bimbo? Did they want to become the Las Vegas style divorce capital of the Midwest? No wonder all those preachers make such a big deal about fire and brimestone, they live in it.

Even if it's the law, you can make your voice and opinion known. There's got to be somebody around with a thread of decency.

The message is clear: Get this done and get the H-E-double hockey sticks out of that state.

GG and A.M.

I know you both may be right about all of this but I can't let my hope die out...

I am just not ready for that. I am not read to give up on my marriage or him. Yes I may get divorced and I will continue to live my life.

But I can't give up not yet.... I just don't feel it yet...

I know when the right time comes I will feel it.... I just know....

I will be fine the kids will be fine... Yes I will have to be careful with money but I can and will make it....

I wish I still didn't love this man sometimes because it would be so much easier. He has stomped on my heart many times this last 7 months. But my heart still loves him...
Maybe it always will, I don't know but I just can't give up yet....... Something in me tells me not to....

Actually GG they are trying to change the laws here. A little late for me though.

they are trying to make it were you have to be legally seperated for a year before divorce can be filed and 6 months of MC has to be done...

They are also trying to pass what they call a controlled seperation... This is when you both live in the same house but are seperated and have to attend MC different things. Its kinda hard to explain... Okla has been degraded by other states for their divorce laws....

Like I said unfortunaly for me all these laws will be to late.....

But for the future of Okla. families it will be a good thing if they pass....

I hear you, HURTING....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Mimi.....

I just can't give up yet.....

I just feel like everyone thinks I should.....

He can still come back right????

This affair will end I have to believe that ......

In your case, giving up and getting divorced are not the same thing. The divorce decision has pretty much been taken out of your hands.

I know what you mean. My heart has been stomped on for some time. Unfortunately, every time I look into it, I believe that I still love WH. I'm not giving up but then again, my WH hasn't taken the steps yours has.

Protect your heart. Protect your finances. Keep hope. More than one couple on this forum has remarried after D. Perhaps there is a different plan for you in the grand scheme of things. You and I are of a similar age. Every day is a new beginning. I will live. I will thrive. I will not hold onto something that does not benefit me. If it comes to divorce, I will not be one of those women who lives in the shadow of their divorce.

Move through the steps. Grief, anger, acceptance, and whatever else there is. Move at your own pace but the pace for ending the marriage has not been set by you.

Who knows what the future holds?

Take it day to day...

This I know Grape, I can't do anything to stop it....

You know as I have seen so many or these stories play out it seems that the WS'S just leave and don't even try the d thing quick ....

Here I am only 6 1/2 months into this and mine has done it already... I believe its because of pressure but yet he is doing it.... He is moving so fast with all of this that it does make me wonder if he feels he has to do it fast to be able to do it. I just don't know......

Bad part is the OW he is doing it for is such a looser and user and he does not see it.... A friend of ours stopped by here today to check on me. He knows the OW as well.... This is the first time I have talked to this friend in months ... He said him and his wife were just floored by this all and especially when they knew who the OW was...

We all know how she is even WH knows... We all used to talk about how she was with men. But of course my WH thinks he is special and she wn't do him the same way... Anyhow my friend was talking about how OW hit on different married men at the bowling alley, him included once she found out he owned a lot of property but he turned her away and his wife really warned her to back off..... I know of two married men she did this to before WH..... Of course my H would be the one to fall into her trap.... Believe me if I had any idea she was going after him I would have handled this right away....

So see this is why I believe this will never last ..... I could be wrong maybe he is special but I just don't believe it due to her past behaviors.... Get what hse can and run, that is unless they figure her out first then they run....

We're not talking hope, we're talking strategy.

Have to agree with grapegirl again -- you can go down this path with dignity and grace, or you can go kicking and screaming, but whether or not you go down it is not being determined by you.

Since you are being forced, you might as well play every card to your advantage.

You can keep hope alive as long as you want -- and many couples have remarried after divorce -- but you better prepare financially for a longer haul than you had anticipated.

Day to day thats all I can do for now ....

Seems to me everyone is giving up hope he will ever get it...

I must be the only left who has any hope.......

Ok A.M. maybe I am not understanding what you all are saying to me....

I know i can't stop this...
I know i have to move on with life and make it good..

I just feel like everyone is saying in a round about way : Its a lost cause , give it up he is not ever coming back.. he is done with you ......

I agree A.M. I am preparing financially .. The most the state will allow, plus working.... I am not just sitting here wringing my hands and waiting.... I am doing what I have to do for myself and kids....

It's OK to be the last one standing.

(((hurting)))

I certainly am not saying for you to give up hope.

I don't think it's for certain that he will divorce you on Wednesday.

Have you let the children know his plans?

yes the children know.....

DD does not say much...

DS on the other hand is very angry at his father and called him a dirty SOB....

That hurt me to the core to hear this child say this about his father....

He does not want to see him this weekend at all.....

We'll see what happens....

You not the only one Hurt'n, I have hope for you. Hope can be a two edged sword though.



I think you have a valid observation. Kind of like eating those beets you hated when you were a kid. Stuff them in real fast and swallow them half chewed, followed by a gulp of cold milk.

It is to soon to lose hope.

Here is something. I went to mediation today, honestly and hopefully thought I was going to reach an agreement and be divorced in a week. But nothing happened, she couldn't agree on anything, and didn't counter with any proposals. She just said for me to give her what she wants or else. So it isn't over after all.

Maybe something like that will happen in your case. You know what I mean? Take care of yourself. He should not be rewarded for being a cheating husband to a loyal wife.

Tom,

I am almost sure we won't come to an agreement. I am not backing down on what I am asking for because I am not asking for that much really....

I will say one thing though if he does agree to what I want, then I will know he really wants out of our marriage.
If he willing gives me my terms then I will know its time to give up any hope...

Like they say, It ain't over until the Fat Lady sings. I'm not fat (or that much, I guess) and I'm not singing.

Many things can happen in a week. Hope always springs eternal. Make sure your kids, inlaws, friends, and bowling buddies...especially their wives know exactly what is going on.

If you are in the middle of an earthquake, you don't stand next to a big, heavy china cabinet. It could be a little shaker and stop. It could be a whooper and you could get covered with shards of glass or buried in broke dishes. Your personal earthquake is getting into the 8.somethings. Prudent people bolt their cabinets to the walls. I guess that would be MB principals. Commonsense says that if the shaking gets bad, you dive under the table. You probably can't save the dishes. You mourn the beauty and use you got from the dishes. You can glue some of them together and they are better than new. But you can't stop the earthquake.

We hope and pray with you that things would suddenly become different. Pragmatically, we want you to protect yourself.

I guess grapegirl and I are suggesting that you change your psychological point of view on all this. Be cold as ice, and calculating as a general. Be businesslike, and ask for the moon.

You may not get his love that way -- but you may at least get his respect. That, at least, is better than contempt.

There's nothing wrong with hope, but this is moving onto a 8.0 scale, as grapegirl says.

A lot could change in a week. But be prepared, and don't be run by your emotions.

GG,

I know everyone has my best interest at heart... And I am going to protect myself finanacially... Well the best I can legally get anyway..

But what I am asking for is not a lot compared to his money he makes. Believe me with that and me working it will still be tight. He still will have more money than me every month... To be honest with CS and SS if I get what I want it will still be under $1000.00 a month.... So see I am not asking for much.... Plus half of his 401K which I will get since its community property state. I know he will argue this out. And since it was only for a job he was on for 3 1/2 years its not that much.... right at 5000.00 is what I would get..... So in reality I am not getting much but I will be willing to bet you he is going to not agree to any of it...

Like I said if he does then that tells me what I need to know....

A.M.

I am trying not to let my emotions play in this mediation thing. The one good thing about it is we don't have to be in the same room so that will help....

As long as I don't have to see him I can stay strong and fight for w hat I want. I don't have to worry about him trying to badger me and make me feel bad for him ...

I do believe he is going to get angry and maybe try later to get to me but I won't respond to him at all....

He can have his earthquake by himself......

Hurting,

Either way, I know you will have a good future Hurting. Going to college and all is a plus. Life is a journey. God has good plans for you.
And like you said the other day, you are staying in the Land of the Living. That's how I know you are going to be alright. There will be adjustments ahead but they will all be for your good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lady

Everyone knows what is happening, my kids, his family, my family and our friends....

No one can believe he running so fast into this.... Funny part is OW still has not even started her divorce. Yet she is pushing him into his.... Guess she figures once thats done I am not a threat anymore... She told my DD once this d ivorce is done her and WH can get closer.... How much closer can she get , darn he lives with her... One good thing though after a divorce you can't get married for 6 months in Okla... they at least did that right a waiting period ... and if in that six months you reconcile you can file with the court and they can dismiss the divorce.... Kinda backwards and screwy is ya ask me.....

Heck I don't know I am guesssing at so many things anymore.... I can only go by what I know of her and what I have see and heard from her before all of this started....

There's your ray of hope. Things may not change in ten days -- but the chances are much better he'll see things differently in the next six months.

I can only hope A.M.

heck by th time 6 months is up he will have been gone a year.....

but heck OW has to get hers to and then her 6 months start... so could be a while before they can do anything .... Of course I guess they could sneek off to another state and do it .....

Does the legal system really want you to be on food stamps, Medicaid, public assistance? You are going to be 'way, 'way below the poverty line. Maybe you can get a HUD apartment like OW. You seem like a person who wouldn't want that kind of "charity" but you may be forced to.

Does the judge really want you to become the taxpayers' burden? The people of OK will be paying for what your WH husband does not. What you are asking for after 24 years of marriage is laughable. It is a crime and an injustice. They want you to have 12K/year for 10 years and a future of flipping burgers. Why don't they just issue you your baglady outfit and shopping cart right now. It's a life sentence of poverty.

NOT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!


AIM HIGHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know it is grape ...... Thats why I am willing to go in front of a judge .... I think I stand a better chance at getting more that way....

Thats why I say I don't think we will come to an agreement... Now my attorney does not think a judge will give me much more than that because according to him they won't make WH a pauper to help me....

Really sucks if ya ask me..... But I am going to take my chances and pray a judge sees the truth and gives me what is due....

There has got to be a few good people in the court system. It is worth taking the chance.

Right is might. Good will prevail. Karma is a b-------.

Hurting,

I feel your pain as I could have written these same words. I also do not have a college degree. My WH and I thought that my staying home to raise our son was the most important thing in the world. I did daycare at home and then got a job in his school when he entered 1st grade. Then my life flashed before my eyes. I saw my future alone, scared, uneducated, and worthless. For all the sacrafices I had made it seemed he would reap the benefits. All the while he is keeping warm at night with someone who is telling him wonderful things about himself. The pain was unbearable at times.

Your feelings sound so familiar to mine that I want you to know that I am okay now. I live each day knowing there are no guarantees for my future so I do what I want when I want to. I'm not accountable to anyone but myself and there is freedom in that. I am happy. I have my moments, I still get lonely, but overall I feel happiness. I am becoming more confident than I was. I am becoming more self assertive.

Most importantly Hurting, your situation is no different today than yesterday or D-day. The divorce is a legal document, yes. But if someday you want your husband back, you will have that opportunity to decide. You will have to go deep into your soul and listen to only your voice, what it is telling you it wants. When his affair falls apart and he realizes what he lost, you will be in a different place than you are now. If you still want to reconcile with your WH someday, don't get caught up in the divorce "label". You have spent a lifetime with this man. You are an emotionally healthy, kind and caring woman. Of course you cannot detach and move on so quickly, no matter what the courts or your WH says. Just because OK grants a divorce in 10 days does not make your sitch any different than others here whose states take longer. Forget about the courts and well intentioned friends, families, neighbors and strangers. Take care of yourself and listen to your heart.

Shattered,

You have no idea what your words meant to me...

They touched me very deeply. Your right I know its only a peice of paper and if/when the time comes I will be the one to make the descion on what happens.

I will be ok, it may be rough for awhile but I have the love and support of many family and friends... And of course all of you....

Again thank you for the wonderful post...


Hurting

((( Hurting )))

I also cannot believe this is happening so quickly. The subject title here shocked me.

All you can do is protect yourself the best you can financially. Hold your head up high and feel the love of your family and many friends. You certainly will not be alone in that court.

And, and I am a firm believer in this - YOU do not need to do anything at all to bring him down or cause him pain.
Powers that are much stronger than you or I will give him justice. It's karma, you can't hurt people and not have to pay. He will get his, please trust me on this. It may not happen soon, but it will come. Please try to find some comfort in this.

If you need someone there with you - I am in Fort Worth and I will come.

Best regards - carnation

Carnation,

That is so sweet of you to offer to come here for me. I can't believe someone who does not even know me would offer such a wonderful gift. It means a lot to me.

I will be ok. I will make it through this. I will admit I am so scared and hurt and not sure of what my life will be like.

I still hope and pray that he will come home someday. Divorced or not I can't imagine him not in my life.

I was talking to my brother yesterday and I told him I was thinking about coming to Va. were my whole family lives. He said to me why would you do that? I told him so I could be wth all of them. He said BS you have lived in Okla. all your life except for a few years, do you really think moving here will help you? I told him at least I wouldn''t have to see WH, he said thats not a good enough reason to move, your life and friends are were you are now.... He told me I really need to think this over and not make a rash descion on how I feel right now.

He also told me if you still have hope for you and WH how do you think you leaving will help? If you stay there he can see the changes and see you moving on with your life and maybe that will make him think.... Maybe he is right I just don't know right now....

I just f eel so many emotions right now , scared, hurt, angry and even a little bit of hate for him.... But for some reason my love seems to overcome all of them... I am such a idiot for still loving and wanting this man after he has done this and walk away so easy..... Where is the man I married 24 yrs ago???? This man is nothing like him, he is a total stranger in my husbands body....

Hurting, I also think that you may not be happy moving away. I think it would drive you crazy being so far away. Maybe later on down the road, like IF (and I doubt this) they got married, maybe then. But I do believe it would be wiser for you to stay put until you really, really must leave. You will know when that time is, if ever.

It is the addiction and fog that changes them. My WH changed big time during his A. I kept asking him, what is wrong, why are you acting like this ??? Not putting 2 and 2 together. Not knowing that he was involved with OW and acting out of shame and guilt. He was trying his very best for me to just kick him out and that was not what I wanted to do. Instead I LB ed not knowing the whole story.

My xh treated me terribly for a very long time. I was abused in every sense of the word. To look at him you would never believe what was going on in our home. He was a very successful businessman and I looked the part too. But oh the pain of it all. I could go on and on about a sit like that - AND if there is anyone reading this who is in an abusive relationship, I know what you are going through. I know all the dynamics of it inside and out.

Anyway, what I am trying to say to you is - my xh, who owned several franchises is now broke !! Our whole family is shocked that this could happen. Not me. I prayed for years and years for God to help me and give me strength. Certainly not for xh to hit bottom, never dreamt that would even be a possibility. Well, Hurting, he did. Big time. He got his. Through no cause of me. I did absolutely nothing. Even took a very small small portion in our divorce. His doing not mine. (I was outlawyered !!). But I am happy (well y'all know my story, not broke anyway) and he is not. He finally got what he deserved. And you know what, after causing me pain for so many years, with his down fall I feel nothing for him and his situation. I am not glad that it happened, I am not sad that it happened. I have absolutely no feelings for him whatsoever.

Anyway, I am just saying that I have seen alot of pain in my life and I survived it. He did not. Good always wins. Always. Good will come to you too Hurting. Trust in God and watch your back !!!! lol

I am here for you if you need me.

Best regards - car

Hurting, I've come to realize that there are people in life who can move and those who can't. A lot of people just can't leave home. They live blocks away from their parents and elementary school in their hometown. Others of us have no problem with moving. At one point, my 5 siblings and I lived in 5 different states. Big western states. There's nothing wrong with either view.

Moving may not solve anything for you. It can be hard but it can be a new beginning. Your son is high school is probably your biggest consideration. Moving a school aged kid is really difficult. What about your grandbabies? I assume your DD will live in OK. Maybe your brother doesn't want you coming to VA because he fears he'll be "saddled" with you.

Think of the possibilities. If and when you're divorced (and stay divorced) and your kids are more independent, you can do what you want. I used to have a recurring fantasy about running away from home and being a childcare worker at a Club Med. Yes, you can get paid to be at the beach and watch children. Maybe you could wash dishes at an Art Colony. You'd be hired for a menial skill but still be around art. Perhaps you could find a way to build up a nest egg for later.

Be strong and open your mind. The world is your oyster.

Hurting,

You need to ask for EVERYTHING you want. Stop listening to "but the judge won't allow it"...you are not going before a judge...you are asking htese things of your WH...and in a negotiation there is give and take. No, you won't get everything you ask for, but you have to ask for more than you want so you have something to take off hte table when he countermands your demands...

I don't want you feeling stupid when you walk in there with your list of demands and WH OKs it right away...that means you asked for too little.

Ask for MORE than state requirements, he can ALWAYS say NO.

Think of it this way, make it VERY expensive for him to D, so he will look at reconciliation as a viable financial choice later...

YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT for continuing to love your H.

You made a commitment to him FOR LIFE-UNTIL DEATH.

This is a covenant made before GOD.

It is my belief that GOD WANTS YOU TOGETHER..

Just because MAN's legal system sanctions divorce, divorce does not have to be acceptable to you...

ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE IF YOU BELIEVE...

Carnation,GG , Still and Mimi,

First let me say all of make very good sense to me.

As far as moving away goes I am not sure what I want to do. Part of me wants to run away and never see WH again because it hurts so much. But then part of me feels the need to stay here because I fear leaving that I will never see him. A two edged sword for sure. That part of me wants to be for the time the affair does fall apart so I can help im up from the fall.

My DS will start high school next year and I do have to think of him and how all of this will effect him. Its bad enough he will no longer have his dad living with him and moving from the home he has lived in all his life but to take him from his friends and not seeing his dad on a regular basis could cause him more harm.

Then I have the chance that WH may fight me on leaving here with him. Of course he says if DS wants to go he won't fight it but then again he lies so much who knows. I will not leave here an leave my DS at the mercy of my WH and his OW. I will stay until DS is on his own before I would ever allow WH to have him.

I have been thinking about what I have asked for in the settlement, and I have decided to change some things. I am not going to make this easy on him. You are right Still I should not listen to a judge won't allow this, these are things WH owes me and I am going to request them. Yup I may not get them but we never know.

Mimi your right anything is possible when you believe.....

I have to keep believing at least for now that he will come back.... Maybe in time that will change but for now I still have the hope...

Thanks all of you .....

Hurting-
So sorry that things seem to be happening so quickly - I
know you must feel like you are on a freight train headed
for a collision and you can't get off the train !
(Been there, done that)

Wonder if your WH is just so conflicted and confused that
he can't make a decision and is letting OW talk him into
circumstances that he is really going to regret. I think
when he comes out of the fog (and he will) he is going to
be horrified by the way he's acted and things he's done and
won't even realize how deep in the hole he's gotten himself.

My past couple of weeks have certainly been very dramatic
and I've felt some hope, but realize it's going to be a long
road and still no guarantee that things will work out with WH. Now that his initial "shock" from the DUI situation has
lessened his depression and anxiety have leveled out and he's not as needy and clingy as he was last week. He stayed
at home for five nights, but then last night decided he
wanted to stay back over at his rented room, and I'm not
sure if that's just him needing to have some time alone,
or if it shows him getting back on the fence as far as OW,
so I'm not feeling as optimistic today. He did ask me to
come eat dinner with him last night, however, and it was
pleasant. I tried to talk about things a little bit- asked
what he thought about he and I, and what we were doing now
and he said we were "taking it slow, trying to work on things". Also ask what the situation was now with OW, and
he said it was mutually "broken off" (not sure about that)
however I know they do continue to talk at least some, and
I am very curious what the real "deal" is with that-
(don't know if she might have broken it off realizing he
does have real issues, STILL has a wife, and due to the DUI
or if it was him, needing the support, comfort and stability
of home).

I am thinking of you and praying for your situation. Glad
you can talk to Steve Harley- I have always wanted to do
that myself. I do think there is still hope and you are
handling things as well as is possible ! You are probably
just right in thinking about the possibility of moving, but
waiting to see how things go- no rush decision or actions.
Slammed


he's not as "needy"

I am trying slammed...... I feel so lost right now and scared.... I have not been single in a long time and not sure how to handle it....

I won't be Mrs. anyone anymore, and its scary to think of being alone and single again.....

I am just so scared ........

Honestly, I think that if you move away that there's absolutely no chance that you will reconcile with your WH.

I do believe that there is a chance, divorce or not, if you stay put.

Their relationship will definitely end. Dr. Harley's prediction is two years for most As.

The problem, IMHO, is that it is much too easy to get a divorce in your state. It's so unfortunate.

Plus, I agree with you that it's in the best interest of your son, given his adolescence, to be near his father, WH-father or not....

Hang in there, Hurting....

I'm sad for you. I understand your sadness. I remember how scary it was for me to think that I would have to start my whole life over again at age 50 after being with my H since age 18. IT IS TERRIFYING!!!

However, I agree with the others that you need to BE STRONG, HOLD YOUR HEAD UP HIGH, AND PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR SON TO THE FULLEST!!

It is important to gain his respect at this point. He is losing a PRECIOUS GEM!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Please, please, please reconsider moving for your DS sake. It is hard enough dealing with a D, but a move on top of that, and it would be devastating. Trust me on this, kids do NOT get over D or moves (I'm not sure adults do either).

Ok I had a long post but lost it so I will try again ...

Mimi,

I agree me leaving will probably ruin any chances of reconciliation and i am not ready for that yet....

DS does need his dad WH or not.....

Anyhow WH just called DD to tell her to tell me CS won't be here this week they supposedly messed up his paycheck... So looks to me like he will be paying me the next 2 weeks. One is due the 1 and one the 15 of each month.

I will not allow him to get behind or I will be requesting garnishment of his pay... he is not going to put me back in the hole I won't allow it.. My bills won't wait and its not my problem its his .... Maybe he should ask OW to help him out.... She wants him so bad and to be in his life maybe she needs to step up to the plate and help him out... Thats part of being in a relationship, helping each other...


This makes me so mad , if he thinks I am going to sit here and just let him pay when he wants he is so wrong..... I have had enough of being Mrs. Nice Guy ..... It's time for him to be responsible..... See already we have money issues with him.... How does he think he will be able to make this work for him???? He is so irresponsible with money , thats why I always did the bills and such he does not plan out anything.....

Still ,

I will have to move at least into another place here....

I cannot stay in this house , unless I could figure out a way to pay it off to my MIL and I don't see that happening... My SIL wants to buy it .... They are not pushing me out I have time but I know I have to do something....

I am not making any life altering descions right now, its just my emotions getting to me and trying to get away from the hurt I know this..... I know it will follow me no matter where I am , I know running from problems never works they always find you no matter where you are...

Thanks for all the support

It's so obvious that this is not going to work for him...

I agree with your anger and conviction, though, regarding the finances...

I am speaking to my attroney about this next week and see what we can do and if garnishment is possible I want it done...

I know it will make him mad but oh well this is what he has chosen to do he has to live with it....

I don know from being with him for so many years around the holidays money is tighter because of being off so much, but its not my fault. He knew this and should have planned accordingly... He could have saved some instead of buying the OW xmas gifts..... DD said he knew he would have to pay 2 weeks in a row, I am glad he realizes this and he better follow through....

I just know this money issue is going to cause some problems for him.... He will always be whining about it ....

Hurting - I think you are being given some great advice. On the subject of moving. I just wanted to say that kids are very resilient when it comes to moving. Mine have moved a lot and they adjust just fine. So if moving is something you have to do or choose to do then know that your son will be fine.

I do agree that having his parents go through a divorce will be traumatic, so hopefully you can get him into some kind of counseling.

This is a tough time for your family. Love your kids.

You are doing all the right things. I will be thinking about you next week.

Hurting,

I know moving is a huge decision. I think about it many times, but I am still here. It's hard to pick up and move after you have lived in one house for so many years. It's a change that is not easy to make.

With a move considering how DS feels is also important. When we moved here 8 yrs ago, my daughter was 13, just going into junior high. It was very difficult on her because she had to change schools
and wasn't where here friends were going anymore. She took it really hard. A move can be devastating to a teen, especially away from life long friends.

Anyway...you will probably be better able to make a decision like that later. Too much going on right now to think about it. One step at a time, my dear.

Blessings,
Lady

In my separation agreement, my H had to make my mortgage payment as well as pay spousal and child support.

I think it is ESSENTIAL in the mediation for you to ask him to pay your rent or payments to his mother for you to stay in your house.

That is a reasonable request, I think.

Don't worry about him being "mad". It is important for him to RESPECT you. He certainly does not RESPECT the OW....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Lady,

I am considering DS in this .... IN fact him and i just had a talk, he knows we will more than likely have to move from our house and he is ok with that. He says he would go to Va. but I know he would miss his dad very much...

I am making no descions anytime soon.... We will see how things go until the summer time. So thats a few months away..

Deep inside me I want to give WH and OW the chance to try and make this work and watch it fall apart. I know it will eventually and I want to see it happen.... I won't have to do anything to help it along, I think him just struggling to make his payments to me will be enough on my part.

I am going to ask Steve Harley though what I should do if this divorce happens. Do I stay in planb or maybe just kinda plana him from a distance. I know I will have to at some point communicate with him about DS. Plus I want to be able to show him I am happy and moving along... I will see what Steve has to stay about all this.... I will follow whatever advice he has to offer...

So not to worry I am not doing anything for now, just thinking about the future without making any life long descions for now. Not only that I have been thinking about WH asking me about moving and how he would help me.... I wonder sometimes if its because he fears having me close he may realize what he has done or if he really just wants me gone from his life... I know OW would like it because she would not have not worry about him around me at all... Maybe just me being around is to much for him and it causes guilt, heck I don't know .....


Hurting

Mimi,

I am past worrying about him being mad.... I don't really care how mad he gets I deserve more than I am getting from him.....

In fact let him be mad because to me that would cause problems between him and her.... You think she is gonna want to listen to him rant and rave about me? I know I wouldn't if I was her....

If anyone should be mad and throwing a fit it should be me... I am mad but not showing him that but he is going to repsect me because I am going to demand it by my actions... He is not walking on me anymore, I have allowed that for almost 7 months now and it won't happen any more I am taking my control back from him.... He will pay me on time or he will suffer the consequences thats all there is to it....

So let him get mad I am past the point of caring, I have done everything to keep that from happening to try and save my marriage and it didn't work so now he can be mad , glad or whatever. He never really tried to work on us, he just kept stringing me along as long as I was a nice girl and let him get away. Once I took some control by filing the LS he got angry and did this.... He told me flat out thats why he had divorce papers drawn up because I filed the LS siteing adultry... So be it WH in the long run you will be the one regreting this and having to pay the ultimate price the lose of your family and someone who has loved you for so many years.....

Hurting,

I'm thinking the same. WH was asking about your moving many times. Having you in town causes him more grief embarrassment and guilt. Oh well.

I think asking for the mortgage payment also is a good idea. MIL would probably like that too.

Lady

Lady,

I am not sure about the house thing.... If I could pay her she may let me buy it I don't really know..... I am going to talk to her about this though..... I have put 17 yrs in this house so who knows.....

As far as WH being uncomfortable with me around he may as well get used to it because I will be here for a while at least...

This whole thing just sucks ......

Well I was suppose to work tonight but I called in....

For some reason all of this hit me like a ton of bricks this afternoon and I just can't stop crying...

I don't know how I can do this..... I don't want this to happen.....

I have got to get it together before Wed.

How am I going to go in there looking and acting strong?

oh oklahoma....i'm so very sorry for you

acting "as if" is so painfully hard and you've done such a good job...it's okay to break once in a while

me....i don't even attempt it...

I can't pull it off except when i was in plan A and my H was around...but it took everything i had to do it

so i understand....

Do not look at him....oklahoma....you will be able tohold yourself together better

and i'm sure others will not agree with me...but i wouldn't even try...i would show him how this is hurting you

i tried it when we signed the papers for the house...i scheduled ot so that my H would get there and sign then leave before i got there...butr he had to come back because they changed a paper....i took one look at him...he smiled like he was winning the prize of his life....and i burst out in tears and ran out the door and down to the parking lot.....

at least he felt bad enough to call like crazy after he left and when i got home later

just becasue they have no feelings right now...why pretend that we don't?? someday they will remember that day and what feelings you showed

maybe strong IS the best choice for YOU though oklahoma...i'm just saying what i would do

i'm praying for you hon

Hurting, Could you go to the doctor before Wed and try and get something to take for anxiety ? I have taken Xanax for when I get very stressed or panic attacks. For the short term they might work for you. It should calm you down and get you through next week. I am not advocating drugs here, just trying to get you options.

Best regards - car

Eav,

The one good thing about this is I don't have to be in the same room with him. I may not even see him... But more than likely we may pass in the hallway or something. I just want to be able to be strong enough to stand my ground and not back down in fear I will make him mad. You know what though making him mad sure can't push him away any further than he is.

It just amazes me how they don't see the pain and destruction they cause. How they can just move on so easy..

Carnation,

I don't have any health insurance right now so I can't really afford to go to the dr. I know it might help but I am just going to have to set my mind to do this....

Sometimes i just think if I just went off on him I would feel better.... I have been so nice and calm 99% of the time he has seen no anger from me since all this crap started.... I have told him my feelings but in such a way I was calm doing it.... I want him to feel my wrath and anger.... I know it would not be a smart thing to do but I have heard and felt his many times in this....

I sometimes wonder if he thinks because I never came unglued on him if I really don't care... I know he expected it at some point because he knows I can have a bad temper but I have worked very hard to control it and it has made me a better person....

Why does this have to be so hard? Why can't I just accept this and wallk away like he has done?

"Why can't I just accept this and wallk away like he has done?"

Because you are not him! You are far from that type of person!

"I don't know how I can do this..... I don't want this to happen....."

He knows hurting and He will be walking beside you the entire path, He knows you are strong enough to walk this path. Sweeheart, you will do just fine I promise.

I don't f eel like I will befine, I feel like my whole world is shattering....

I am scared and alone. I miss my life and my husband. I don't want it to be over.....

I know I can make a life without him but how do I stop loving him?

I gave this man over half of my life, how do you throw half of your life away like trash? Was it all a lie?

I just have to keep telling myself , You can do this....

You can be strong, you are a worthy person, you deserve better....

I am sure by Wed, I will be doing better.... I just have to accept this.....

He is gone and thats just how it is ...... As my brother tells me ... it is what it is and nothing more......

I don't know how strong you truly can be. It will take everything you have to do this.
WH, is this truly worth the total and wanton destruction you are about to heap upon this family and all those around you that still care about you. Look him in the eye and do not break contact. Do not let him wiggle out of an answer.
His reaction or answer will give you the path you are to follow.
He may just realize he is about to lose EVERYTHING he ever held dear.
As for your son. I see a very strong young man of character being molded here. You will be proud of him the rest of your days. I can already see from some of your posts that he is well on his way to becoming a caring, selfless and strong man.

BKarl,

My son he is my light in my life right now..... This young man will be a very loving and caring husband someday for someone....

He talks to me and worries over me. He is so disgusted with his dad at this point. He does not go out of his way to speak to him or see him. Now I will say when WH spends time with him he is very repectful of his dad and will not put him down. His dad knows how he feels as DS has told him. That is one thing I have told my son no matter what he is your father and he deserves respect for that. You can love someone and let them know you do but that does not mean you hae to like or accept their poor behaviors. So WH and DS do not speak about this subject much....

DS has no desire to be around the OW or have anything to do with her. He was very happy that he does not have to spend any nights with his dad since its in our papers no over night visits allowed...

You know I would love to be able to say that to WH. I think I could but I know I would be crying as I said it... It may be something he needs to hear though .... And your right his reaction maybe would tell me a lot....

Hurting - I know it is totally against Plan B, but I don't see how you can divorce and not speak to your WH first. Maybe I am wrong or missing something, but I would have to at least look at my husband and tell him this is not what I want and is it what he REALLY wants.

I know Plan B says no contact, but this in my opinion is beyond Plan B. I mean, the state of OK is allowing you to be divorced in a few days. I still can't believe the laws are like that there. That is just terrible.

If I were you I would HAVE to speak directly to my WH...face to face even though I would cry. I think he needs to see that emotion. See how badly he is hurting you and your family. Crying is not a sign of weakness. It shows you care.

This is all just my opinion as I know others have advised you against this.

I am thinking of you and praying for you.

As a side note...I lived in Lawton, OK two different times and in fact my DD18 was born there!

Hurting:

Ask Steve about Lost's idea...

I was thinking that I would probably do that...PLAN B..MB or not...

I wouldn't be surprised if Steve agreed since the laws are soooo ridiculous...

I will definatley ask Steve about it. I do want to talk to him but I want to be sure its the right thing to do..

To be honest though I really don't think anything I say will make any difference at this point. I have said so many things to him over all of these months and nothing has made a difference so why would it now?

He is so determined to do this....

He really believes this is what he wants .....

He really believes the OW is who he loves and wants to be with.....

I have nothing that can change his mind......

{{{{Hurting}}}}

If you do speak to your WH, it will allow you to look into his eyes and tell him that you still love your H that you KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that the love is still there. Make him look in your eyes. See the love that you still have for him. Make him face that so he can see for one last time that he is making a huge mistake. Look at him caringly and speak words of warmth, love and strength.

Kim

Kim,

I want to do that so bad but I know I would just break down in front of him again.

I really would not know what to say. Except for the fact that I love him and this is not what I want.

He knows I don't want this , he knows I love him but he obviously does not care.

I don't even know if he would talk to me at this point. He may not would even speak to me I don't know.

Let me tell you why he says this .... WH is looking for his identity in a reflection. This is known as 'reflected sense of self' .... and it is the root of most affairs.

WH does not "love" OW beyond how he sees himself reflected through her. When OW reflects WH's identity as something other than the positive fantasy identity she's currently doing (and she will, it happends in EVERY romantic relationship once the courting phase has ended) ... WH will not "love her" once she changes her position .... she is currently LOCKED IN a position of reflecting his identity .... but it never lasts .... not in any romantic relationship.

Let me explain it like this .... if YOU depend on ME to tell you who you are, what happends to your self identity if I make a move? You panic and sense you are losing yourself .... and you try to prevent me from movement (growth) ... you try and force me to remain a reflection of you that you like ..

The type of "love" OW and WH have is emotional fusion. It requires surrender of individual freedoms and responsibilities. But it's not love FOR OW as a person, it is "love" for OW's reflection of HIM ....

understand?

and it is not something you ought to envy

It's a very nervous and exceedingly needy sort of attachment. A life-line to WH's sense of self .... and that is too much pressure to put on any relationship.

Remember the thread about Renters Buyers and Freeloaders? Remember, sacrifice in a romantic relationship is BAD .... and affairs are dripping with lopsided sacrifices .... a cesspool of neurotic neediness.

Try and focus on your own healing at this point.

WH will come to realize he does not like himself any better with this OW ... and he may come to his senses, or he may cheat on OW with OW2.

it's out of your control.

And

it is sad .... their love is desperate and sad and flawed ... because it is held together by neurotic glue

Pep, that is one of the wisest things I have ever read! Hurtin' I hope you read that carefully because it is true. As a FWS I can tell you that once I "defogged" I did not like OM very much and I know I never "loved" him. It was just ENs he was meeting and the relection of how "lovely" I was in his foggy eyes.

I donno if it's all that "wise" ... simply observant to what is repeated over and over and over with just about every affair I know about

This sums up affair drive: "He/she made me like myself."

[color:"red"]RED FLAG [/color]

Adults ought to like themselves if they are doing likeable things.

Affairs are very UNlikeable.

The self one finds to "like" during an affair is false because the source is false.

Good line, one to remember.

((Hurting))

I don't know what to tell you. Of course, I would talk to WH, but I have a habit of talking to my WH trying to make him feel, see or realize something. It just doesn't work, but I don't get very frustrated with it anymore. I know why I do it, I decide before hand if I can handle the failure and then I make the call. Remember though, I am insane, doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

I think your WH knows this is not what you want. And if WH was a man that had the strength to pull his own head out of his a$$, he could stop this divorce. That is one reason I didn't want to file, my WH will never try to stop the D, he wants to be the victim and he will just let it ride no matter how he feels about it.

I am tired of repeating myself to my WH (finally!). I have told him I will either have a great M or as good as a D as I can get - his choice. You WH knows what you want, his silence is saying he is not man enough to make you happy. He is still full of selfish pride and justification.

I know that you will be OK after this, and I still have that feeling that somewhere down the road, you WH will want to come back to you and your life. I don't know if you will still want him then, but I think he will regret it and you will know it and you will have the peace that throwing you away was not as easy as he tried to make it look.

((Hurting))

PEP...THAT WAS AMAZING..READ IT 2X.

You're so right.

and that totally describes the relationship b/w my xh and is present w/the xow. Andit's crumbling just as you described.

Hurting...time happens. Harleys say it takes 2 years for affairs to bust up. Could be from exposure date...can be from court date..can be from date D papers are signed...but it is this and is clear.

When the fogged waywards realize they are in their perceptions "in the clear" with their new romance (all other marriage partners gone, etc), the TWO YEAR CLOCK BEGINS TICKING.

And it has begun for your WH.

You're lucky Hurting. 1)YOU know the truth. YOU know what WILL HAPPEN TO THEM...HE DOESN'T. 2)You have done enothing to compromise your belief system 3)you have grown tremendously.

And you will be considered very very attractive to either WH or ANOTHER MAN when you're ready to be. And WH will realize it when the reflection ofhimself he views in the OW is slipping away..that she is simply "not all that".

The affair dynamics still are so freaky to me. They are indeed based on prinicples pep said. I see it first hand. It's either Love/Hate. Can't be both. And it certainly cannot be COMFORTABLE LOVE. It is always in a state of turmoil. It is either passion or hatred. Or passion or nothing. I don't see my xh and ow beign able to sit down together on a saturday morning and read the sunday paper and discuss it. I don't see the peaceful images I used to know being a part of their existence.

But you will be better off either way. You have to trust and believe this!

And it's unsure which darn affair wristwatch is being worn by the WS. If it's the "two years since d day" clock, or the "2 years since separation" clock, or the "2 years since divorce" clock...but one things' for sure. His clock is ticking away.

My question to you...Being that you are new, improved, and gettin' better every day...HAVE YOU THOUGHT THAT THIS IS UP TO YOU? Really.

Because Hurting,

Where you will be when his clock stops is his problem. You will one day have choice of either WH or somebody better. And he will be the one having to deal wtih that. Trust me..it happens.

I did read that very carefully and I totaly understand it.

What makes it even more sad is the fact that our marriage will be over and done before he or she realizes what this is all about. That is if he ever realizes it.

He is sacraficing his whole life for this and just does not see it. Its so sad that someone could be so far in the fog they can't see the sacrafice they are making for someone who really isn't what they appear to be....

I know I will be ok ... I will make it through this and take care of me and my children. Thats all I can do...

It will be hard to not try and save him as I know he is going to fall at some point but I have to let him fall...

Yes, hurtin' you have to let him fall. As Pep said, you can't control what he does. I am sorry that your state allows D to happen so quickly.

How is your DD doing with the BF and the pregnancy and all that stuff?

Avoid desperate talks with WH.

If you decide to speak to him ... what is your goal?

Be VERY clear and honest with yourself about any goal (or hope, expectation, etc) that is attached to your desire to have a "talk".

.... and then really take inventory of your ability to detach any expectations of a particular outcome after the "talk". ( as in how disappointed will you feel if the talk does nothing you desire it to do)

If your only goal is to allow yourself a voice, go right ahead. But beware of any goal that cannot be met unless WH makes a change. He's too lost.

And remember, your WH is lost to his sense of self and identifies with reflections off other people ... and right now, the reflected sense of self WH gets from you is not attractive. Adulterors are ugly in their deeds. No getting around that fact.

I wish I could say were I will be once this all comes crumbling down.

For right now I still hope I am at the place of wanting him back. But I guess that all depends on how long it takes and what is going on in my life when it happens.

For now I can honestly say this my Love Bank is far from being empty. Believe it or not as flawed as my planb has been, I did do it in enough time to save a lot of my love for him. Even knowing this divorce is looming over my head has not depleated it much.

Now I do know as time moves on it will slowly leak out and maybe by the time comes he falls nothing will be left. Then that will be his problem not mine.

You know i was talking to my MIL last night and I said to her you know in June this will be a year already. The time has actually gone pretty fast. I can't believe he has been gone for 7 months already. Some days it seems forever and some days seems like yesterday.

Peach your right his clock is ticking and he does not even realize it. At least I have some idea of what the future holds, he has no clue except for what is in his foggy mind.
To bad his is all delusional and mine is reality.

I will make it, I will be alright..... He on the other hand won't be..... Wish I didn't feel so sorry for him ....

You know Pep what you just said is something I have thought of.

Part of me says well maybe if I tell him what I feel it will kncok him out of the fog.

But the other part of me knows this won't happen. It will just make me look weak and needey to him. It will only give him the idea that I am still on the string and he can divorce me and I will still be waiting around like a lost puppy.

This is not the impression I want him to have at all. Maybe deep down inside me its true but I don't need or want him to know that.

I know he knows how I feel. He knows I don't want a divorce and he knows I still love him. I don't think I need to repeat those things to him. It would do nothing for me because I know how he will respond to it. It would do nothing but hurt me again.

I want him to see me as a strong person, who can and will make it without him. Someone who will not bend to his will or threats. So maybe not talking to him is the best thing to do....

I feel very sorry for him. He's not a bad man. He is in so much pain.

Imagine a war within yourself where your core values have had a head-on 100 MPH collision with your behavior. We're talking blood and guts of his wounded soul!

If you decide to talk with him ... may I suggest this as a topic .... [i] Speak to him about HIS pain. Tell him "You must be in so much pain." .... offer him understanding that HE is hurting. This will be UNexpected and he may have no response. If he tries to blame his pain on you, say "It is no pleasure to me you are in so much pain."

Wow Pep, you are on a roll this morning! That is great!

I could see how that would be so different than what I have been doing. I have been talking about my reality, which WH doesn't give a ratt's butt about. But it is so obvious that my WH is confused and lost, being empathetic would probably be much more effective.

Thank you God for sending me to this board.

Thank you God for all the wise and caring people who are here helping others to be strong.

Dear God, please give Hurting strength to get through this hurtful time.

Dear God, please send a lightning rod to strike her WH and knock some sense into him - soon !! We are running out of time here.

And, Dear God - can you send some rain to Texas - now !!!

Carnation

I don't really expect to talk to him. I am pretty sure he would not talk to me at this point. He probably feels that I would try and talk him out of this and he don't want to hear it.

I know he is not a bad man, he is a lost man who has no idea what to do. So he is following the lead of someone who has an agenda. He is to blind and fogged out to see that.

I do wish I had a way of being able to say things to him that meant something but I don't. I thought of writing him a letter. No necessarliy a love letter but a letter of hope and letting go. A letter that lets him know I still care but accept his choices. I don't know if such a thing exsists. Something he can read again if he wants to.
I just would not know how to go about writting it.

To be honest saying anything face to face would probably be more destructive to me than him. I don't need more destruction in my life, I have had enough...

Tahnks Carnation for the wonderful prayer.... It means so much .....

I understand .... but keep my little suggestion in your back pocket in case of any available moment where you may be thrown together by accident.

And you mentioned this



OW agenda is almost identical to your WH .... She is lost to her authentic self, looking for self validation of her worth through the eyes of another ... some people take this to a pathological level, and it becomes a life-style. (FaithfulFollower's and Spidey's husbands are examples <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> )

When there is a history of molestation in a woman's childhood, they are often drawn to serial affairs... searching endlessly. Like Dorothy in Wizard of Oz .... 'cept serial OW never finds "home" ... her authentic self.

You know Pep funny you mention a history of molestation.

I don't know what her childhood was like but I do know at some point in time she had been raped twice. Now these are her words so I actually have no proof it happened.

In some ways I have often wondered if she is looking for someone she feels can protect her from this sort of thing. She has gone to so many different men searching and looking. For some reason though my husband seems to be the one she feels is her savior I guess. For the 4 years I have known her this is the longest relationship she has had. But I will say most of the time the other men have been the ones to walk away from her. A few I spoke to said it was because of how she latchs on and won't let them breath.

Now my WH felt I had pulled away and gave him no affection of the feeling he was alone.( Which by the way is true to some point ) So I guess her needieness and latching on is something he was looking for because I was not that way.

So maybe they have both foubnd what they w ere looking for .. her a savior and him someone who needs him and won't let go....

I just don't know ....

I'd take Pep's suggestion another direction:

BS: Ws, sorry to see u r in such pain.

Ws: What pain?

BS: The one showing all over your face.......hope u get better.

Then walk away....remember you can't teach a WS but you can make them wonder. They still a have brain but it isn't functioning at full capacity. However, curiousity runs high because they are in the state of constantly having to wonder what is going on with them and around them (remember the fog?!?!?).

I did this with my WS. Kept putting him in a quandry. Remember it is your H you feel sorry for NOT the WS. Don't give your sorrow to the WS, save it for your H.

L.

WH and the bimbo will be here in about 30 mins. to pick up DD and her b/f for lunch.

It will be the first time DD'S b/f will meet WH. B/F knows the situation we are in and is behind me all the way. I have told him he will like WH as he is a good man but just lost.

I am ready to leave the house to go to a friends so he can change my oil in the car and I can visit with his wife. I made sure I look good and happy. I know this is crazy but I feel like walking out of the house when WH shows up just so he can see how good I look and so OW can see it to. Just get in my car and leave without a word....

I told DD not to tell him where I am or who I am with. Can she can tell him I am getting the oil changed by a friend but thats it. Not who or where....

Maybe its playing games I don't know but what have I got to loose now..... Plus it makes me feel good to think he will wonder.... Maybe he won't but I'll never know....

Orchid,

See thats what I was thinking because if I was to say something to him about the pain that would be the responce I would get from him. I have no doubt. Great comeback to say to him..... I will remember it.... Thanks

U need to get strong enough t/b able to handle interactions. IMHO u also need to bring your children up to speed sooner. Holding back info from them now will only hurt them and you.

U need to be a single family unit. One fighting machine against the A.

So tell me, why does he keep taking your D out to eat? Is it because he isn't giving the family enough $$? Hm..... gotta bring that up in court.

BS: U R aware that the WS tends to play favorites.....he has repeatedly taken his daughter and even her BF along with the OW out to lunch, dinner, etc. but not his son. Not sure why he is being emotionally cruel to his son.....we all wonder.

Yea, practice so when you do speak it is packed with a whollop.

L.

Pep's wisdom is PURE GOLD.....

She is RIGHT ON regarding the relationship between my FWH and FOW..who by the way was the victim of repeated incest....

WOW....

Ok so much to say....

First off as I w as leaving the house, looking good and sexy WH and the bimbo drove up. I proceeded to my car without acknowledging them. WH pulled up so I could back out.

So I go to my friends house and her husband c hanged my oil. As her and I were talking and she knows WH pretty well as we have been friends for years. Anyhow she says to me I know he still loves you just messed uo in his head right now. Anyhow she said something that struck me She said when the OW thinks she has won (ex. divorce done) thats when things will probably fall apart, because she will let her guard down and become herself. Now in a way this makes sense to me because she will think I am out of the picture for sure.

Ok now back to DD.... When DD got in the car with WH and the bimbo he asked her if she had pissed me off because I took off so fast. She said no mom is on her way to her "friends" so he can change the oli in the car. DD said he didn't say a word but he looked at her threw the rearview mirror and the look on his face was not a happy one. So while they were eating she called me on my cell and I was telling her I would not be home for dinner. All she said was Well mom I guess I will see then whenever you get home...

So when I get home she tells me she called her dad to find out if he liked her b/f. He said he did and then next thing out of his mouth was " So how long has your mom been seeing this guy?" DD told him look dad its only a friend and thats it. So now WH thinks I have a male friend I am dating which is not true .... She never said to him that I was with some friends of ours. I didn't ask her to make him think I was doing anything wrong he has now in his own fogged out brain thinks I am dating.... It bothers me that he may think the wrong thing but nothing I can do about it...

But I was very proud of myself by walking to my car and just leaving . I knew running back in the house would have looked bad and like I was hiding so I just played it out. I never even looked his way..... I was shaking so bad as I drove off.... One thing for sure the OW saw me as well... Thank goodness his windows are tinted because I couldn't see them at all....

I was looking good and walking with my head held high.....

So please no 2x4 for not turning and going the other way.... I know planb but no interaction happened at all... I for sure was not going to chit chat with them ....


Orchid as far as DD and the lunch dinner thing, it was her idea because she wanted her dad to meet her b/f. And she paid for it not WH...... If your talking about the kids knowing the divorce could be next week they know.... I told them both DS did not take it well and does not want to see his dad right now... He called him a SOB again... I told him that was uncalled for and he is still his dad. I decided hiding it and then telling them when it was over was not right.

Sounds good Hurting! I am sure that OW is thrilled with your WH's interest in your social life <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Again, it's just so obvious...that he still cares and this won't last...

It's probably GOOD that he thinks you are dating and the OW heard his concern...

Mimi,

I don;t know if she heard his concern or not. I know she heard him ask about DD making me mad, and DD telling him about my friend. Now I seriously doubt she heard the phone call him asking about it all.

I will tell you one thing though the bimbo saw me and she saw how good I looked with the weight loss and all....

Another thing I just camr from MIL and SIL w as telling her about a conversation she had with WH. Seems OW was the one who bought DS'S mp3 player for christmas because WH was on the road. Anyhow WH told his sister the one he talks to that OW is now complaining and making him pay her the money back. SIL says he was not very happy about it and was complainin about her bugging him about it. SIL told my MIL I am telling you now WH is not happy I could just tell by the way he was talking.....


You know I still believe this divorce may go through but I do feel as though this affair is standing on its last leg... It all depends now on how long is it gonna take for the leg to break..... Can I wait this out, I sure hope so ......

The Harleys say 18 months in PLAN B..2 years before the end of an A.

That's why your divorce laws are so awful.

I'm sure wondering what Steve will say.

I don't understand pur divorce lawas either Mimi but I tell you one thing I can't wait until I have that appointment with Steve on Tuesday....

I am pretty sure this divorce is going to happen, maybe not Wed. because of the mediation and not agreeing but I am sure at some point in time not in the distant future it will happen...

I hope Steve has something good to say..... even if its reconciliation after divorce ... I hope he still see's a chance for us...

I see a tool in here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Let your kids know that their dad will buy them whatever they want, while at it give them a list of things you need for the house. Tell them that the OW is willing to pay to have him and so if he is going to give up his family, you al l might as well go get something instead of just a D. If the OW is gonna get your WS, she might as well pay through the nose for it.

Sounds mean?!?! Hm... not really, right now the WS is a giggolo to that OW and she is selfish so while she spends $$, her greedy self will eventually want it back and therein lies the LB from afar. Takes a lot of imagination but there are things you can do. Have you established your family's monetary worth from your H's standpoint? If not, have your children and SIL go ask him how much in $$ is his family worth, then ask for that much. I did it. Dumb OW didn't have enough $$....the big talkin' azz. LOL!!!!

L.

Orchid,

I have to say thatss brillant but I know my kids won't ask for anything. They haven't yet.

Of course I guess I could have DS start asking him for things since he can't seem to pay his CS on time.....

You know this moeny thing i sgoing to be his downfall I believe. He can't pay his CS and SS , he can't afford to pay OW back , his paycheck got screwed up(that I don't believe) what the heck is he doing with his money????? Oh I know he is buying stupid bumper stickers for her car .... My Heart belongs to a trucker .... what a freaking laugh....
Buying her cigerretes something he always complained about for me... Not the money aspect but the health aspect for me... Thats all I ever heard from him stop smoking I don't want to lose you ..... OW wants em he gets em nothing said....

I am going to think on this and figure a way out to use this without causeing problems..... Funny though how is wanting to borrow money from DD to pay car insurance and a stereo..... Me thinks OW will soon realize he is not Mr. Moneybags and is very bad at hadleing finances... WH wants what he wants when he wants it and says pay the bill next week. Thats why I always handled the money .....

It will be fangs and nails in the den of the damned tonight. I wish I could be a fly on the wall there tonight
Believe it or not the little love nest is crashing faster than you think your marriage is.
He is lost and doesn't know what to do. She is showing him the person she will become. And just maybe he will know what to do. Why do you think she is always with him, huh? She is insecure about them when it comes to you and rightly so. I wish we could all go over there, cook up some popcorn and watch the cheap b movie it has become. I know, Mel or Pep can hold up cue cards and we can all snicker, Oh and Ah at the same time.
I'm sure Steve will let you know what to do to allow him the courage to ask to come home. That may be all that is left of this. Don't give up hope yet. Remember, it is not over til the fat lady does the paperwork. Something like that.
You are in my prayers as always. Chin up!

Hurting -

Yep, sounds like things are crashing more & more. You did great today!!! I am so proud of you!! Your WH is jealous!

Kim

BKarl,

Your post made my night. I have to say I agree the love nest is loosing its fun but Istill think they are going to try and hold on yet for a bit.

He has gone so far now I don't think he will back out now. I could be wrong but I don't see it.....

I don't know about the fangs and nails though, maybe she won't say anything who knows. I mean WH didn't really say much in front of her... DD say the look on his face and her and her b/f were laughing as they told me about it. She said it was not the look of a happy man.

Now lets think about this for a minute. He could be asking about me seeing someone because if I am it could relief his guilt thinking I am moving on. I mean lets be honest this also could be it.... But I thik back to just last month when he called his mom and sister both questioning this and not happy about it. And of course he asked DD as well and then myself.

So things are happening this I know but what is happening we really don't know... Is it crashing or is it getting better because they think I am moving on w ith someone else? Hard to say ....

Kim,

I don't know if he is jealous or just wondering ....

Jealous woould be nice but I can't get my hopes up thats it..

But you know even if he is that does not mean he wants to be with me..... I can not allow myself to get excited over this, because its really nothing in the grand scheme of things.

All I can do is just keep moving on and hope someday he catches up.....


Hurting

Sounded more like a look of loss an impending doom to me.

I want you to understand some things about men. We are proud. Plain and simple. And nothing causes us more doubt than the relinquishment of that pride.
We will not accept defeat. Most of us anyway! We are not wrong and we do not make mistakes. And God forbid someone calls us out on it. No matter what we have done. At times we will sacrifice everything to keep our pride.
At what price shall we swallow our pride and admit defeat. That is where we differ as men individually.
And by defeat I mean giving up something we believed was right. Remember we are never wrong.
When I served in the military I was Damn proud of what I was doing. What I was doing was right and I would have died to serve and protect this great country of ours. God forbid some hate America first moron would have ever challenged that pride. That would have been a total affront to what I believed in.
Unfortunately, hurting, we demonstrate that pride in everyday life. We do not want to admit defeat in anything we do whether it is right or wrong.
When we can find the way to change ouselves in that respect or someone show us it is not an affront to what we believe, whether right or wrong, it will not be an affront to our pride.
I hope you understand what I am saying. Because you do not want me going all night about this.

My pryers to you!

BKarl,

I think I understand what your saying.

if he can find a way to come back without his pride being hurt or injured and not hear I told you so's , then its easier for him.

Is this what you are trying to say? I'm not real sure.

I have said all along his pride would stand in his way of admitting he has done any wrong. He would rather suffer than admit it. I had hoped I was wrong, but maybe not.

So the thing is to try and figure a way out without his pride being broken. I just don't see how that can be done.

I hope this is what you are trying to say to me....

I have a question maybe it sounds crazy but I want to know what some of you think.

When I was at my friends yesterday and her and I were talking about Wed. and myabe this divorce happening, I was mentioning something about how hard it will be for me to take off my wedding rings. She said well don't take them off if you don't want to.

I told her it would be silly to were them when I would no longer be married. She said to me BS just because some judge says your not married and signs a piece of paper means nothing, its what you feel inside. In your heart you still feel married ,you take them off when you feel its right.

So I guess my question is do I have to take them off that day? Or can I wait until I feel the right time? I can't imagine taking them off, I have worn these rings for 24 yrs. it woould be so hard to take them off. I thought about putting them on a chain and wearing them around my neck.

I know some of you will think I am crazy and just can't let go but I am not ready yet and have to do this in my own time. I just don't know what to do if this happens...

That is edzacarry what I am saying. You need to ask SH about this when you talk to him. Pride comes with a high cost. You need to ask SH how to lower the cost.
And the rings. You are not crazy and you take them off when you are good and ready. You do not need anyones permission and you certainly don't need to explain it to anyone.

BKarl,

Thank you, I am so glad I understood what you were saying...

I definatley will ask Steve about this .....

I am glad I am not crazy about the rings then.... I was worried people would think I was nuts if I still continue to wear them.....

I will take them off in time I am sure but not until I am ready...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

purrrrrrrfect !!!

Here's a way to make a love bank deposit from afar .... AND improve your health and your wallet simultaneously

stop smoking

a least give it the old college try

cut back by half for 2 weeks, then go cold turkey using the patch

PRETTY PLEASE

this goes with the quitting smoking suggestion .... be sure your H knows you are quitting cigs .... and, if possible, throw in this comment

"WH was right, I should have quit smoking a long time ago. I know he worried about my health."

In other words, demonstrate a humbleness when you have admitted you were wrong. Lead by example.

Pep,

You know you are so right.... I do want to quit and I am trying very hard....

It may be to late though for those Love Bank deposits... I will do it but I am almost positive he will say why didn't you do it years ago....

But I do think back to Dec. 9 when we had court and he said to me so your still smoking.... I didn't smoke in front of him but he saw them in my purse.

But you are right about one thing admitting I was wrong is something I have to be able to do myself. How can I expect him to stop the addiction of the affair, when I can't stop my addiction to smoking....

Another thing my kids need me healthy for sure...... I need to do this for myself and them as well......

In reality I wonder if this really would make a love bank deposit?

I am going to do it for myself but I do wonder if he will really care?

I do know how he feels about smoking though and the OW smoke like a freight train, so maybe this will show him I am doing all I can to make my life better.....

STOP wondering about how your personal health improvements will be viewed by a WS. STOP IT!!! Make those changes for you.

L.

Yeah! Think about how much better your skin will look compared to the OW's in ten years time if you stop smoking and she doesn't! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

Orchid,

I know your right about this , I have to stop wondering about what he thinks.

I guess I feel like I need to pull out all of the stops since the end seems so near. Crazy isn't it?

At this late date nothing I can do or say anymore..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

i agree completely


hey oklahoma......god and a legally binding document confirms that our H ARE STILL MARRIED but in thier hearts they don't "feel marrried" so they CHOSE to take their rings off already....same kind of thing isn't it??

mine would come off when I was ready too....not a second before

Eav,

You know your right , I didn't look at it from that point...

My WH took his ring off when he moved out and I have not seen it since and probably never will.....

He say we are only married by a piece of paper now.... He does not feel it at all.... While I still have the feeling of being married and faithfull. Really sucks when ya think about it.....

They move on sleep with other people and live the single life and here we sit still acting the wifely role.... Taking care of home, kids, pets and anything that goes with being married.


Somedays I wish I could be as cold as him and just move on without a thought about it. It would be so much easier. But thats not who I am.

This is just how I feel. I feel I've given up on my marriage way more than you have, Hurting, and still I want to stay faithful until we are divorced. I won't stoop to his level, and I can't be that cold, either.

The single life isn't all it's cracked up to be when you sacrifice everything for it. It can't hold a candle to the warmth and comfort of family.

BTW - Saw your pic on the photo thread. Your WH is a crazy fool, if you don't mind me saying so. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(((Hurting)))

Alph.

that's not who i am either

is any person with a heart and sanity that kind of person?

that's why they call them addicts, crazy and aliens......

I asked the WS to show me how t/d this. He couldn't answer and I asked why!??!?! Told him I was a slow learner at this A crap but since he is becoming a master at it.....well I needed t/b trained how t/b cold, ruthless, selfish, greedy, etc..... Told him I didn't want to be taught by HIS teacher (PBR). I needed lessons from someone I knew. Yep, I asked for lessons....didn't get any....got a compliment and a lot of anger from the OW. LOL!!!! Told him I didn't want to be taught by HIS teacher (PBR). I needed lessons from someone I knew. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

L.

You know Orchid, that was a smart thing to do .....

I bet it set him back a bit not sure what to say....

I wish I had the guts to say something like that to mine.

Of course I'd probably get some babble about him not being those things.....

I don't want to give up my marriage but alas all my choices have been taken away from me in that department. But the choices of how I life and handle the fallout are all mine... And I pray I make the right ones.....

Thanks for the compliment Alph.... I wish he felt that way... To bad the OW is so homely looking..... WH always told me how beautiful I was, well in his mind anyway... I don't see how he could say that to her though and really mean it..... It just makes me sick to think about it.....

When you get to that stage when u r strong enough to say those things, it will come flowing out of your mouth.....so in the meantime, practice.....practice being good to yourself. Don't take no flack from the stupid WS side of his being.

L.

I will Orchid.... I am trying very hard to be good to me.....

I know one day I will be able to say things to him and not flinch or cry and I do look forward to it......

Ok , I have not had a cigerrette in 3 hours people.... I am doing good here.... Been chewing a lot of gum but hey its cheaper.....

I figure if I can do make it through the first week I can do this.... Of course I don't what will happen on Wed. I may need a carton of cigs to get through that day....

Today was pretty good ... DS and I played Playstation this afternoon and the went to MIL's and played cards. Came home played some more Crash Baidcoot and DS is now in bed.

He was kind of down today as WH didn't make plans again this weekend to see him.... So DS has not had time with WH since Christmas eve. This really makes me mad because of all the bi**ching he did about not seeing his children. Well this is not my fault its his.... I just don't get it...

Anyhow DS and I had a nice afternoon.....

I'll be glad when I get ahead on money so DS and I can do some things and get out of this house some.... Its so depressing just sitting here and watching life go by....

Just gets my mind thinking of the past and how weekends were before all of this.... I don't like thinking about the past, it just hurts to much.....

Good Job Hurting!! I am proud of you! Something that helped me not smoke, is crocheting (or knitting, but I can't knit). You can't smoke and do craft stuff at the same time. Or keep your drawing supplies handy so your hands will stay busy.


I have court on Wednesday too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Jean,

I crochet but have not done anything in a few years.

I really dread this court thing on wed. not knowing if I will still be married when I come out or will I be single...

You know its really strange how fast this all happened. No time to get used to the idea at all.... Not that I would get used to it but its like no time to breathe and its over...

I just don't see how a marriage can be earased so easy. I see on other peoples threads all of these things they had to do, like depositons and such we did nothing but give them our finanacial and a list of what each wanted from the house and its done....

No arguing over DS or nothing.... Now there will e arguiong on Wed about the alimony and his 401k, that I am almost sure of....

its like a nightmare, I can't wake up from .....

Ok I found out some more about this money thing with WH and OW.

I finally got the whole story because last night all I got were bits and pieces.

Ok OW went and bought the MP3 player for DS since WH was on the road. She has since asked WH for the money back. Which when ya think about it is ok I guess. Anyhow she didn't have the receipt to show how much it was. So WH called my SIL to ask her how much they were. SIL said well depends on what kind and were you got it. Anyhow he told her well I need to find out because "She" is wanting her money back and I need to know the exact amount.. So sounds to me like he does not trust she told him the right amount.

SIL said he was pissed about the whole thing. I guess he didn't think she would want her money back seeig how much money he spends on her and her DD. Hmmmmm sounds like some true colors are starting to shine through....

Anyhow my MIL said BS I am sure this will end and I think its already starting. Maybe it is I don't know but one thing for sure I may be divorced before it does.

I sure wish sometimes I could be a fly on the wall in the love nest to see what happens... I would really love to be a fly on the wall wed. if we don't come to an agreement and the divorce is held off, even if its only a few weeks...

I wish there was a way to "Plan B" and fire a shot across stupid-head's bow - "Ok - so you want a divorce? Fine - but once you set me free, with how you've treated me, I have some choices and it's not likely to be you... (and then in my best Clint Eastwood snarl) Go Ahead. Make. My. Day."

Kayla,

Well said .....

The only thing I can say is this is going to be the biggest mistake of his life and one day he will see this.....

You know WS'S are so stupid they can't see the writting on the wall. The one person who has loved them and stood by them now is being treated no better than a bug on the windshield , yet here we are still wanting our marriage and still love them ...

Make me wonder if we are the ones who are crazy. What sane person would take all of this crap and still want someone who has treated them so badly.....

I never thought my husband had this in him, I have never seen any kind of behaviors like this in my 24 yrs with him. He was always the one person who helped everyone no matter what. He was the neighborhood dad with all the kids. The romantic, loving husband who always bought me little gifts and flowers all the time.... And now he is this cold, calculating monster with no feeling towards me at all.

Why do I want him back ,I wish I knew..... I rememeber the man I have lived with for so many years maybe thats what I am looking for and hoping to get back. But as I think about it even if this affair ends he still may not ever be that man again.

I often wonder wouldn't it just be easier to cut my loses and just move on than to even try. But something in me won't let me do it.... I still love the man, how foolish is that?

You are not crazy about the rings. It is your life, your feelings, and your emotions. Do what you want and tough nuggies to the rest of the world. Start making yourself happy and the heck with what everybody else thinks YOU should do and say, etc. You come first now.

Hurting,

I hope you have a great day. I just thought of something that may brighten up your day, I am trying to look at the bright side of stuff today.

It sounds like OW and WH will crash and burn sooner rather than later. Your WH will want to come home, and you may let him after much wooing and proving to you that WH is gone forever. Then, you can remarry. If you play this right, you can have a bridal shower and get all fresh towels and pots and pans and stuff!

I still have the same shower curtain from my bridal shower 14 years ago - I would love another wedding shower!

JEAN,

I am hoping for the crash and burn but I am not getting my hpoes up to high.

Things don't sound to great in fantasy land but we really don't know. It could be he was angry about her request for the money back but hey he may just get over it and give it to her and continue on.

When all you get is is bits and pieces of things its hard to say what is really happening.

I am anxiously waiting for my appt. with SH tomorrow and get his take on things. I am preparing myself for the worst with this appt. and hoping for the best.

Wed. is only 2 days away and my stomache is in knots over this. Will I be divorced or not has me just going around in circles.

I know I won't be if we don't come to an agreement which of course I can not accept anything if I don't want to but I keep thinking what if he agrees to all I want then I have nothing to disagree about.

I won't lie I want this to drag out for just a little bit longer but that may not happen....

I know if we don't agree its going to cause him to be angry at me which in turn will send him back to OW in a not very good mood.

Anyhow all I can do for now is take it a day at a time and see what happens....

You know i have been reading through a few peoples threads today and as happy as I am for those who it looks like the WS'S is ready to make the marriage work , I am also very sad.

Why can't my WS'S be one of those? Why is he so damned determined to ruin our family? All for nothing .....

All of you who are in reocvery or very close to it I am so happy for you yet very envious as well.....

I pray that all goes well and you all have the marriages that you want and deserve.

Just having a little pity party I guess ..... Ok back to regular programing.....

Hurting....
I have been catching up on your story here....

Not being around for some time gave me a chance to see how strong you have become <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />. Boy, I admire you! You have come a long way and you are doing great! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Know that I am always here reading your story and rooting for you!

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Daisy for the support. I don't know how much stronger I am but I am dealing somewhat better... Of course who knows how i will be after Wed.

I have been wondering about you. I hope you are doing good.

Get us updated on you ......... Hope you had a good holiday and here is to this NEW YEAR being better than the last....

Hurting

You are doing great hurting!
Just a reminder for your appt w/ SH.

Jot down a time line of events...He doesn't need a ton of detail just an overall summary...He will talk you through what he needs but time is money and I know you don't want to waste it. Keep paper and pencil handy when you speak with him...so you can take notes and he may give you something to say to WH word for word.

SH is really easy to talk to and he is not a clock watcher which is nice. I hope you have a good session with him... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Confused,

Thanks for the advice. I am going to take notes and I hope and pray he has something I can use to help this situation.

I sure wish I could have afforded this before this divorce thing happened though. it may just be to late... But I need some professonial advice for sure... Not that everyone here has not helped me but I guess I just need to hear what a pro says. Maybe it can help me figure out which direction I am going in.

I am looking forward to this session for sure.....

Ok so my appt. is with SH tomorrow at 1:30 ....

Does anyone have any advice or anything I need to know for this appt.

I am praying this goes well and he can give me something to use...

I sure wish I could have done this months ago ...

Good luck!

My prayers to you!

Hurting, Be sure to write down everything that you want to tell SH and any questions for him. Make little notes to yourself so that you won't forget. He is VERY easy to talk to. It will go great for you.

I am agreeing with Jean about being able to remarry after this is all over with. And, it will be all over with WH and OW very soon. So, if you do end up divorcing before they break up (which they WILL) he can court you slowly and make amends and y'all can remarry - a brand new marriage. I think that would be a very good start. Just my humble opinion here, you know I am no expert.

It will work out for you Hurting. We all know this.

Best regards - car

Carnation you have no idea how much I hope you and Jean are right.

If I knew that is what would happen I could get through this so much easier.

I still have the fears though that may never happen.

I keep praying for him to get it... and do whats right....

Thanks for the encouragement and support.....

Ok just has very unhappy conversation with my mother....

I know she means well and loves me very much, I do but she just does not understand why I won't give up on WH.

She keeps saying you need to forget him and move on....

How can you want him back after all of this????

I tried to explain to her that I have to do this my way and if later on down the road I don't want him back I will know it....

She says if later on down the road he wants to come back so be it but in the meantime forget about him..... Easier said than done for sure...

What my mom does not get is that I have had the longest marriage in our family except for my grandparents(her parents) All my siblings have divorced at least once , my mom 3 times..... longest any of them were married was 15 yrs... that was my mom and dad.....

I am tired of being told to forget him and he is no good.... They just don't understand and I try to explain all of this and they won't listen.... Why can't they just let me do this my own way and in my own time......

3 old men are out on the golf course one day.
The first guy turns to the second and says" Boy it is windy today"
The second man says" Wednesday, I thought it was Thursday?"
The third guy says "Thirsty?, me too. Lets go to the clubhouse and get a beer.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thamks BKarl I needed a good laugh...

I need all the laughs I can get for the next few days....

Hurting, can you get to Radio Shack before your session with Steve, and pick up a tape recorder for your phone - tape your session - that way you play back instead of recall what he says to you. It may be important!

I have a recorder Kayla..... I plan on using it to .... I know I will forget everything if I don't do it....

I just keep praying Kayla I get something that can help me....

2 elderly women are driving down the road. Mildred runs a red light. Betty looks up and thinks to herself Did mildred run a red light. Sighs and thinks nothing more of it. 2 lights later Mildred runs another red light. Betty holds her tongue and makes sure her seatbelt is tight. Mildred runs yet a third red light. Betty then turns to Mildred and says "Mildred you just ran 3 red lights!" Mildred turns to Betty and says" Oh my God, am I driving!"

I understand Hurting. I have heard the same thing. Others probably think I'm so stupid. I have put up with so much. Is it worth it? Sometimes I wonder myself why I hold on.

I hope God guides your time with SH.

Lady

3 elderly sister share a house together. The first sister says" I am going upstairs to take a bath." 2 minutes later she calls down and says" Sisters was I getting in the tub or out of the tub?" Sister # 2 says"I don't know I will come up and check." Halfway up the stairs she calls down and says"Sister was I going up the stairs or coming down the stairs?" Sister # 3 wispers to herself" How pathetic, thank God I am not a scatterbrain like those 2, knock on wood" She proceeds to call up to sister # 2 and says"Wait right thewre and I will come check, but give me a minute, I have to answer the front door first!

Praying for you today Hurting.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Hurting}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

You have many praying and thinking about you. Be strong.

Two older ladies who had been friends for over 50 years were playing cards like they had every Wednesday when one lady, exasperated at the mistakes the other lady was making looked at her partner and asked, "What is my name?" Her partner thought for awhile and eventually her face lit up and she said, "Mildred!" Then Mildred said, "Thank you, I'll try to remember now."



A police officer stopped a car travelling down the interstate for going dangerously slow. As he approached the vehicle he met with a group of little old ladies. He said, "Did you realize you were going 26 in a 55 mile speed zone?" She explained she was following the law by travelling under the speed limit on Rt 29. The police officer, understanding what was going on, then explained that the Route number was not the speed limit. He was going to let her go with a warning when he looked in the back seat at the frozen fearful expressions of the ladies. He asked what was the matter and the driver said, "Oh, we just turned off Rt 110."

Thinking of you today I hope all goes well.

.....me, too.... today and...tomorrow.

HUGS.

thank all of you for the prayers and well wishes, I will post as soon as I have had my call with Steve.

Also thanks for the all funnies I appreciate them they made me laugh.... Something I have needed to do for so long...

One more hour and the call will be made....

Hurting

Good luck hurting! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

He is really easy to talk to so don't stress about it.

Know that you are doing great! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Daisy

I just got off the phone with Steve....

Everyone was right he is very easy to talk to.. It went very well..

First off he was blown away by the divorce thing going so fast so he gave me a stratagy for dragging this out....

Basically just having my lawyer go in with what I want... Then when WH'S propsal comes back I am to say : This is all moving very fast and I need to time to consider all of these numbers. Stall Stall Stall... He says he that he thinks that this since it is between our laywers and not a true mediator is WH'S attorneys hope to make me cave and get it done. So he says no matter what is proposed tell them I need time to think it over....

He says basically stay in planb but when I do have to interact with WH do a modified planA. Let him know we can have a good marriage and we have the tools to do it once OW is gone...

He says from what he has heard that OW is very controling and WH will eventually tire of it... He says this affair has no chance of survival... Its only a matter of time...

He says they have more going out than coming in to maintain this affair. So he wants me to just keep stating the fact of I don't divorce and we can have a better marriage...

He says if this does come to divorce he believes that WH will reevaluate after the affair ends and after withdrawl will want to come back to me ( marriage)

He sees a lot of hope here. Just give it time....

He told me to make sure that when I say about having time and things going to fast to not be vindictavie about , be humble (not a doormat) about how I feel. Let WH know this is hurting me and not to rush things....

He says the bubble will burst no doubt about it.... He told me I know you feel like a doormat and very hurt but remember this is not the man you married ..... Look at him as a different person right now...

He said that I have been getting good advice from this board and to keep it up.. Maybe this conversation with Steve is the miracle I have been praying for... He gave me so much insight into what is happening in my life. He says WH is truly conflicted and is basically living for the moment... It will all come to an end that I have to believe... He told me when it ends I want you to still be there with your love to help him...

So now I feel a whole lot better. Still scared but I feel like this could still turn out good....



Hurting

Don't you just love him (STEVE, I MEAN)?

He gave me the same HOPE and said the SAME about my H's Affair and you see how my life is now...

DO EXACTLY AS HE SAYS!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

BACK LATER......

I am so glad you at least feel better about tomorrow. I also feel better about tomorrow. I don't have to go to court, my H agreed to the motion so for now I'm getting what I want. I will update soon on my thread. Haven't had much time my dad has been very sick after his surgery last Thursday and haven't been able to post.

newly,

I hope your dad soes better soon.... I am glad you don't have ot go to court tomorrow. Maybe this will give you some time...


Mimi,

I am going to follow this advice from Steve for sure... I just pray it slows things down some....


Hurting

Just think how the OW will LB and she can't do a thing about it!!!

Deep down I think your WH will be glad that you saved him from this and he does not have to take responsibility...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

All I caN SAY IS wow........

just went and talked with my MIL and told her about Steve she was very impressed... she agrees with him all the way..

Anyhow she was telling me that WH called my SIL yesterday while she was working. WH said to my SIL, I know a lot of people think what I am doing is wrong but all of my friends (new friends I guess) tell me that they have never seen me happier. This is the happiest I have been in years. She said he kept going and she told him whatever she didn't want ot hear it and hung up on him.... He never called her back...

Anyhow MIL says I think he is having second thoughts now and is trying to justify it to someone and get them to agree with him...

Oh yeah Steve asked me about people enabling the affair. I told him none of our friends or families stand behind him at all. All he has is OW and her friends. He said good. I told him how my in-laws have stood behind me and how he has treated them, he was not surprised at all. He says its the norm... He was not surprised WH blew everyone off for christmas except for the kids....

Hurting, I am glad you had a chance to talk to Steve. He's a great strategizer. The phone thing isn't strange at all. My inlaws thinks it's a sham because, as they say, "How can somebody advise you when they can't look into your eyes?" I think SH does a great job.

Best of luck tomorrow. Wear your armour and a BIG smile.

GG,

Thanks , I will do just that....

Steve says try not to be to emotional be very matter of fact and keep saying I need to time to think all of this over. And when they make an offer just say thats very interesting but I need to think about it. This is somethat tha tis going to affect my whole life and I am not willing to agree to anything without some thought...

I hope this stratagy works... But one thing for sure I do need to time to think about whatever is offered to make sure its right for me and not have to maybe look back later and say I wish I had thought it out more.....

Hurting -

Hi! Glad the call went well. He gave you some good advice & there's nothing like hope to make you feel better!!

Will be thinking about you!

Kim

Thanks Kim...

One thing I did ask Steve about was giving WH the planb letter again. He advised against it for now since this legal stuff is going on. He said that would just stir things up again.

He did say WH knows what you want and how you feel. I told him that some people say that since WH knows this that he will continue to play this out because he knows I will take him back.

He said don't worry about what other people think, he says that shows my commitmnet and devotion to my husband and there is nothing wrong with WH knowing this. He says that does not mean be a doormat to him but showing him the love and commitment is what will allow WH to know he has choices. He said I should be proud of this because it
shows my commitment to marriage.

He did say once the affair is over(in my mind when/if) his withdrawl will probably not be pretty and very intense so be prepared for it. Steve is sure this affair will end in time... I hope he is right .....

He asked me if WH has read any of the books or anything I told him no, WH is not a reader and anyway he won't read any of the stuff I printed out either. I did say he reads my letters and keeps them. He said that was good. If/when we can work this out then I can get WH involved in reading stuff...

Dang I took notes but things keep coming to me a little at a time... My recorder didn't work right , that sucks ....


Hurting

Be strong, be strong, be strong, be strong!

I have hope for you and faith in you!

I'll throw in an extra prayer for you tonight.

BKarl,

I will do my best to go in there tomorrow and be strong and stand up for myself.

This is all just moving so fast and I have got to slow it down some. It may not change the outcome but it will sure give me time to adjust somewhat....

Like everyone keeps telling me Time is on my side.....

I wish you strength, dignity and grace...these are things you carry everyday don't forget you have them with you always.

I'm sure there are lots of extra MB prayers for you tonight.