Pep,

So very true........ Which does not look like he will ever get back...... How sad....

neither you not I can say this

BUT

If he was once a man of integrity chances are actually GOOD he will return to that level again

I still love and miss my STBXH too. It is hard knowing he is living and has been living with the OW since the day he left...


I try to hold on to the fact that my STBXH fairy tale life will fall apart too, and I already know his [email]h@##[/email] is going to be very worse than me... He may have walked away from his family, but he is still financially responsible for us, and the OW won't like that!!

I hear your pain, even if I didn't read all your posts... We'll be okay, we have our children and our values on life. We can teach our children from this experience too....

He used to be Pep. He was one who always saw this sort of stuff as wrong and would never condone anyone being treated this way. He always hated to see a woman abused or mistreated. In fact this reminds me of something that happned about 6 years ago with some friends of ours.

My friend started chatting on the puter with some men. It went way to far and she decided to meet one of them in OKC. I was shocked by it and told my H about it. Seeing how we were good friends with them we decided to go to her husband and tell him what she was up to.

My husband was livid about this and told her husband what his wife was up to because he thought it was wrong. By this time the wife had left for the weekend.

We stayed with her husband through the night and held his hand so to speak. When she came home the next day she was c onfronted by her H. things got a little rough but they made it through it and now have a better marriage because they went to counceling and worked their problems out.

My H said he was glad he told her H about this because he would want to know if it was him. It took a long time for her to forgive me for telling my H but she realized I did the right thing after a few months.

So here is a man who always hated this type of thing and now look at him..... He did even worse and has no problem with it.....

So yup he used to have integrity and hopefully he will again ......

I agree with Pep.
I do think that it can be a factor is keeping the WS on the run, as it was in my case...but it's do-able! Unless moving is necessary for NC, I'd skip the stress that comes with a move!

FWXH came home looong after anyone thought it was possible...and it is going well.

It certainly is a hurdle facing people for the first time, but if my XH could do it, anyone can!!!

I saw significant progress for us once this was done.

1st hurdle, Group A....our kids...the younger ones were easy, 18 yr. old, the angriest, avoided being home alot at first, then found a way to peacefully coexist...there is still some animosity I think, but they can carry on a conversation now! Healing continues...

Group B...my friends...some of whom were new friends who had never met him and only heard of the "foghead" guy....I have to really hand it to them, they were wonderful....made him feel welcome to our gatherings and were surprised to find they really liked him!

Group C...family and friends at our S's graduation party, not everyone was aware that he had moved back home and so he was questioned out by the grill quite a bit, mostly by his side, my folks were more standoffish but cordial....

Group D....work associates....much to my surprise, he invited D6 and myself to go to his union family picnic....most comments were similar, "you're damn lucky she took you back..."

Group E...another group of family and friends during our annual summer trek to his hometown for old home week(where he had introduced OW the summer before!)...clearly most were surprised but supportive and happy for us. We were always viewed as the "happy couple"...

I think it was HUGE for him to get past these "coming out" events, but once done he seemed to relax more and seemed more confident about his decision to return....significant improvements since then....

Coming to grips with the fact that his A is not a mistake that WH can easily hide from, is part of taking "ownership" and moving forward in the healing process.

Right now he's still on the run from that....but it will catch up with him...

Hang tight....you have taken back control of your life and that's no easy feat!

My H found his authentic self in men's group AA meetings ... he holds onto his integrity now like the treasure it is

YOURS will too ... because he HAD IT to start with .... I get very UNwilling to encourage recovery with wandering spouses who NEVER showed integrity to begin with

Thanks Ladies for your answers.

As far as the move goes I don't have much choice about it. My SIL wants to buy the house from my MIL since WH and I are no longer buying it. So I have until the end of May to find a place.

It will be hard because I have lived here for 17 years. this is the only house my youngest has ever lived in. He was conceived in this house so it will be a big switch to him as well. My WH has worked so hard on the yard and and has his flowers he was so proud of. So it will be hard to move away from here.

Sometimes I think though a new place with no memories may be the best for all of us, whether he comes back or not. Even if I could keep the house I could never live here with anyone else. It wouldn't feel right. I remember when WH did come home in Aug. for those short few days he was uncomfortable which he says was the house but I do know better it was his own guilt feelings.

Oh well none of this is either here nor there for now. The changes are going to happen and have happened. I am not looking forward to moving 17 years worth of life .... Its going to be a chore for sure.......



Hurting

{{{Hurting}}}

I know it's hard. It's hard to put all of your memories behind, but at the same time it's hard to keep living in a place that has too many memories. Either way, it's not a fund experience.

A divorce booklet I picked up at a lawyer's office suggests that you move for your own emotional health. I could see that. We bought a house DS3 and I live in now only 4 1/2 years ago, so I do not think I would have that much attachment to the house per se, but certainly when I go through many boxes, etc., to clean up I will find many pictures or other items that would bring back our memories. I know that will not be very easy.

But your kids can help you and support you emotionally. More kids mean more memories, I am sure, but at the same time, I wish I had more than one child. Especially b/c your kids are older, I am sure they understand your emotional state much better and will be there for you.

Hang in there,
Milk

Milk,

I think you may be right, the kids will be a big help. One thing for sure when I do have to move whatever is his I will leave here and he can come get it after I am done.

It will be hard but it will be for the best I think.....


Hurting

Ok I am not feeling really happy tonight.

DD and DS got into a argument calling each other names and such. I tried to tell them enough was enough. I finally just left the house and went to my MIL'S.

I was not there 5 mins. when DD showed up. She said well I have DS taken care of. I said what does that mean, she said I called dad and tld him about it. I got angry and said why do you always do that? Everytime you two get into it you call him. He isn't going to do anything and if he damn well cared he would be home where he belongs.

Anyhow the next thing I know she is spouting off to me sounding just like her dad. Blaming me for everything. I let DS get away with everything. Dad left because I didn't keep the house clean enough, I was on the pc to much blah blah .... Exact same things he has been spouting for the last 6 months. Its my fault that we were not strict enough on them and make them do things... She made out like I was the only parent they had.

I lost my temper and told her she sounded just like her father and all his justifying crap. I told her to move in with him and his bimbo.... She said if she wanted to live in a little hick town she would.... Well I know one thing she may end up there like it or not because I can't take this crap from her to.

I have been the one supporting her and taking care of her butt since all of this c rap started while her father has done his thing and ignored the kids.... And this is how I get treated .... So see I planb Wh to get away from this crap and I get DD saying the same crap to me.....

IT'S ALL MY FAULT....... EVERYONE UNDERSTAND I DID IT ALL... I MADE HIM LEAVE ME BECAUSE I WAS A BAD WIFE AND MOM..... I MADE HIM SCREW SOMEONE ELSE, YUP I HELPED HIM DO IT ....

I am so mad right now ....... not only do I have a WS I got a WDD ....... she is as foggy as he is .......

It's okay. Everything will even out. DD is just spouting the line from her father. It's quite probably that DS told her the same things you are.

Maybe she should go live with her older brother. Getting out of your little town might be the best the to ever happen to her. Join the Army? Peace Corp? Become a nanny in a foreign country. The girl needs to get the heck out of Dodge. It's all me, me drama: PG scares, unappreciativeness, blind blaming. She needs to widen her horizons.

GG,

Your right she needs to do something because she is acting just like WH. Its all about her ..... Manipulation at its finest.....

Anything to take the heat off of them and their bad choices, yeah lets blame the wife and mom..... She will take it ...

I truly am thinking about telling her father he needs to let her come stay with him and OW.... Let them deal with her crap..... See how long it takes before she pisses them off and argues with OW'S daughter or OW herself..... Thats is after all the a$$ kissing is over with.....

I am just so mad and hurt .......

Hurting -

Hey ---Geez. Sounds like DD just got angry and wanted to hurt you at that moment - I bet she really regrets what she said. Or she will after some time passes.

She's heard your WH spouting off now for how long? As we know, our kid's repeat what they've heard --- usually we think of this when our kids are itty bitty, but even when they are older this still holds true.

Sorry you are having a rough day....

Kim

I need some help here... I am seriously considering having DD move in with her dad..... I can't take this anymore from her.

I have been here for her and have not walked away but yet he is he be all end all with her......

The fight we had in posted a few posts above this one....

Someone please help me figure out how to do this..... She thinks him and OW are all that I need her to go there...

I love her but I just can't take the disrespect anymore, I don't deserve it I have done nothing wrong here yet I am the one getting hurt the most.....

(posting with consent from hubby)

Repeat what you just said as you pack her a few things, "I love you, but I can't and WON'T take the disrespect anymore. I do not deserve that treatment. I have done nothing wrong. You are old enough now to get a job, I suggest you start looking."

Call WH. "WH, your daughter is on her way to move in with you. She needs you right now."

Hang up. Give the girl a ride.

You have enough stress as it is and your daughter is stirring it all up PURPOSEFULLY. Reading your latest posts, all Im seeing is her as the WH's willing accomplice. We know she's manipulative (like calling OW 'mom'). Its time she learns that her behavior has consequences.

I know this will get your dander up, but I think you were as much of the problem as your daughter in this case. You may want to re-read what you said to her. Seems to me she came and told you she called her dad. Is she not allowed to call her dad?

Aren't YOU the adult here? No child WANTS to hear one of their parents talk about the other parent like you did. She is ALLOWED to call her father and is ALLOWED to love her father. If you keep trashing him in front of her like that, then you should expect her to defend him. Just because he is a WS doesn't stop her from loving him.

I think you were wrong. Don't do this to her.....

Mojo,


I have to say I am agreeing with you word for word...

WH will be here sunday to bing DS home from the bowling tournement, she can go with him then.

I know its gonna be a big fight she isn't going to want to go and he isn't going to want to take her. I am alsmot sure OW isn't going to want her there either. Butya know what these are his kids to, I didn't bring them in the world all by myself.

I am to the point of just packing DS up in the car and leaving.... I am so tired of all this drama....

You raise a little kid .... teach them to read ... then they turn their words on you like a weapon <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

they all do this (even the good ones <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

it's their JOB to locate your most sensitive hot-button, and push push PUSH until they get you to react emotionally and lower yourself to their level ... it's their way of diminishing your fully-grown adult power over them ....

they ALL use their parent's buttons this way

solution ???

Do not react emotionally --- in fact --- sometimes "give in" to them --- as in "You obviously are troubled by the messy house .... let's go home right now and clean it together."

Apologize to her FOR LOSING CONTROL .... not for anything else !!! And never say to her "You caused me to lose control." .... OWN it ... it's an invaluable lesson for her .... to watch a WOMAN own responsibility for her own emotional outburst. It's important.

If she becomes beligerant again ... say (remaining calm) ... " If you live here, you will respect me, and my house rules."

If I may offer a slightly different interpretation of this:



Her outburst speaks of her [color:"red"] great fear[/color] .... and it is NOT about YOU at all !!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

(I could be wrong , it's happened before <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> ) .... but when I "read between the lines" I smell your DD's [color:"red"]FEAR [/color] .... fear that ...

Men leave good Women

... and she desperately does not want THAT to be true

so there must be a "good reason" her Dad left her Mom

this is a HUGE FEAR of young women who get their heart's torn from their chest when their Daddy leaves their Mommie ... don't forget ... it was only a few years ago she was a little girl who idolized her parents ...

[color:"red"]she is afraid that if her Dad left a Good Woman (Mom) for no reason other than his selfishness .... it could happen to HER !!!!! [/color]

Her real reason for these comments ??? SHE COULD BE YOU IN THE FUTURE ... and she is trying to find a way ( a teenager's solution) to PREVEVENT that from happening to her ...

when you talk to her about this event ... THIS is what I would focus on .....

This is the daughter who is 18, right? The one who was just in jail, right? I say she needs some help. Can she go to a counsleor? Because she obviously has a lot of issues. She needs to learn to control her anger. She is 18 and even though that is still a child she should be more responsible for her actions and her words.

The way she is treating her brother is wrong. He is only 16. He still needs you to protect him. I don't think you should have left them alone. You should have stopped them and sent them each to a different part of the house to cool off. Then you should have made them face each other and apologize. Just my opinion!

This daughter who is 18, what does she do with her life? Is she is school? Does she work? Too much idle time is bad for anyone. She is going to find a way to push your buttons and bully her brother. DO NOT let her do this.

YOU are in control of YOUR house! I am torn on what to do with her...part of me says I would have her move out. The other part says she does not need to live in the house of sin and needs her Mom to help pull her through this mess.

You know how much you have hurt and are hurting over this whole Dad split thing...magnify that by thousands. You kids have really lost their father. How tragic for them.

This is going to be tough for you, but you are strong. Love your kids, they love you and appreciate you more than you know!

Oh and by the way...I also have an 18 year old daughter and a 16 year old son so I know where you are coming from!!

Best of luck to you!!!