Mimi,

Thas exactlly the words I plan on using with him....

Very short and to the point. I don't want or need a long discussion with him.

I just want to make my point and leave it at that.....

NO!!! Not yet...... remember they haven't had even a casual convo in a loong time.....

Hurting, for now concentrate on just saying something like what I mentoined in my last post. Then when you see you can do it, then on another occasion give him Mimi's line. If you say that to him now, why should he stop his psycho course? You would have just told him you still want him back.... AS IS!!! Small steps....simple, direct but small steps.

L.

I understand what both of you are saying but here is my problem, he says he is leaving.....

Don't I need to let him know I don't want him to go, I want to save our marriage.

there has got to be a way of letting him know this without making him want to continue this behavior.

grrrr this is so hard, trying to figure out what to say...

I understand both sides of this, there has to be a middle ground somewhere.....

If you don't say anything else, definitely say I WANT TO SAVE OUR MARRIAGE...

With his FOGGY BRAIN, you might need to add..I WANT YOU TO STAY HERE SO THAT WE CAN SAVE OUR MARRIAGE...

THEN RUN...NO BEGGING AND PLEADING..NO LONG CONVERSATION!!

He will then need to pursue you to get more information but I think that you need to make this CLEAR to him...

BLESS YOU..YOU CAN DO THIS...REMEMBER THE LORD WILL BE WITH YOU.. EVIL FORCES WANT TO KEEP YOU TWO APART AND HAVE YOU TO LOSE YOUR CONFIDENCE....

It seems like this is what Steve would recommend for you to do...this is how he counseled me...

Steve said KEEP IT SIMPLE...."I WANT THE MARRIAGE..GET RID OF THE OW...."

Hi Hurting,

Please tell me.... do you have any doubts at this point that your S/WS knows that you still love him and are willing to work with him on the M if he chooses to end A with OW and work on marital recovery? Would he really be the type to 'forget' the content of your PLAN B letter? Does he need to have it spelled out again?

If so, then, I think when the opportunity arises.... or... create an opportunity.... to communicate this again to him.... very matter of factly...just to be sure... not expecting any reply...

If not, I think it's best to stay DARK..... He may have, or not, chosen to leave OW (don't believe it until it's done), but he still needs to choose to work on recovery of M.... (after withdrawal!!!)

If WS learns that he can send you 'messages' through your children.... by somehow getting confirmation of your reactions or a message back to him via your children.... as you are doing... you are still involved.... and WS then knows he can still 'play you'... meaning 'I can take my sweet time'..... she is no way 'moving on'.....

Hurting, I may have this wrong, but PLAN B is putting an offer out there for WS to consider... inspite of the fact that message from WS is that he has chosen OW, for now....

...but for how long is the offer out there?..... that's where the DARK part needs to happen.... the UNKNOWN that could possibly make WS uncomfortable... because like any offer, could it be that the longer you wait??????..... which could get WS to again 'evaluate' his choices, the OW, the consequences.... and it is what he really wanted in his life? ...this involves some honest personal questioning on WS's part... some of the fog needs to have subsided for it to happen.....

...just leaving the OW is not enough as far as I am concerned.... this may remove some of the fog.... and allow WS to THINK clearer.... (that's why I think the BS's message, before even considering recovery of M, is to 'get OW out of the picture')

....so if WS is serious about leaving OW.... I see it as a very good sign.... because the fog may lift!

but WS also needs to muster up enough COURAGE to admit that he wants and is willing to RISK recovery of M.....

...because a WS knows very well that a BS, even a willing BS (which is the best a BS can be is...'willing') cannot guarantee 'success'....

...the minute WS shows a SIGN of being 'open' to consider recovery of M, with willing BS and some risk that goes with everything that is worth in life.....

....that's when I think a BS can to continue to show the 'lighthouse' is still there, reassure WS that BS's intentions and committment have not changed (if they haven't!).... but NOT before.....

...but I really think it is up to the WS to give a clear 'sign' of this first...

.....trying to do recovery of M before a WS has gotten to this stage, as hard as it may be to wait, I believe increases the chances of false recoveries.....

I believe those that keep telling us that 'recovery' is hard.... and that it should only be attempted with a 'clear' intention from WS....

...and not necessarily a WS without doubts... because for me a WS is someone who has gone into battle... an internal battle... and I expect a WS to come out of it extremely wounded and tired and doubtful about his ability to make choices.... which is why in PLAN B a BS needs to get the strength and stamina to be able to carry the bigger 'load' of recovery of M, if it comes to happen.....

Anyway.... Hurting... these are my thoughts... keeping in mind as you know that I am in PLAN B only.... and am not a M recovery success.... at best for now.... I am working towards a personal recovery....

....I think PLAN B is like a BS in a train that WS sees going by.... and that WS wants to, at the very least, put his hand out to BS wanting to truly get on ...... with BS there to help him in....

....if WS leaves OW..... than he has less to lose and risk in considering recovery of M.....right?? ..and why not give it a shot?!!?! That's why it's so important that OW be out of the picture..... it definitely increases the chances of WS reconsidering offer....

Your WS is moving in the direction you would like him to....

I say.... don't intervene yet..... allow him to make his choices....to want to recommitt....

If he needs to move to San Antonio to figure it out first... I would let him....

I know you are considering leaving him a note..... does he really need one?.... and if you do leave one, please do so with 'no expectations' or...again... it will cost you...

....I really do believe that sometimes the best thing to do...is to do nothing at all!

Sounds 'fishy' to me that he wants to drop by the house.... wonder what your WS is up to....

I know it's hard, Hurting, I know.....many of us do....stay strong and consistent...for yourself....you will be OK....

Sorry for the long post.....

Mimi,

That is what I have to say to him.

I am going to say it, I will not lose my confidence in saying it......

I am fighting evil here and I am going to stand up to it...

I admit my nerves are on edge here but I can do this.....

I have to do this..........

Good Hurting...

To LUNA:

We are recommending for Hurting to follow the counseling she received from Steve Harley....

Didn't get chance to read all of your remarks but I have to leave and want to encourage Hurting to proceed with this VERY BRIEF but IMPORTANT INTERVENTION...

She will resume her DARKNESS afterwards...

Luna,

I totally get what your saying. And it makes sense but I do believe my WS is not sure how I feel right now.

He really believes i have a b/f and have moved on. He has told my children this so Yes I think he needs to be reminded I still want the marriage.

Now what he does with that information is up to him. I know he will need time to figure all of this out and I don't plan on interferring with that at all. I just need to make sure he knows the door is still open if he chooses to try and enter it.

I don't plan on any conversations with him or talking to him until he is ready for that.

Maybe I am going about this wrong I don't know, but SH did tell me to let WH know I still want this marriage. I have to follow his advice because I think its the best way to go.

I believe WH realizes this affair is not going to work for him and now he needs to know that his marriage is saveable if he so chooses. I know he may still not want this but at least he will know I do.

The choices are all his and I have to accept them whatever they may be. And Mimi is right I will go back dark after this today...... Real dark

WH just left....

I spoke to him and said what I needed to.

Before I could finish saying what I needed to , he said Carolyn I don't want to hear anymore about our marriage. It's over and I am never coming back.

He said the OW has told him he has to leave because it won't work for them. He is going to San Antonio because that s were most of his runs are now.

He came in the house to use the bathroom. I was in my bedroom hanging up clothes and he walked in and said the bedroom looks pretty. I said thank you. He said please don't keep hoping for me to come back because thats not going to happen. I don't love you anymore. I care about you and thats it. I am looking at our marriage as a bad business and its over. I said WH all of our marriage was not bad, he said I know that but the last few years were. He said he is not willing to go back there and he does not believe it could be better. He said I am willing to talk to you about the kids and thats it. I said ok then so be it. He says he is going on with his life and I should go on with mine without him.

He really seemed very sure of himself and that this is what he wants. Something tells me he is really done and I just have to accept this and move on. He said there is someone out there for you and its not me. I told him I don't believe that but I can't or won't try and make him do anything. So now what? He is really leaving and I guess its over....

You know I am upset about this but not to the point of falling apart, maybe acceptance is setting in. I have put up a good fight and have no regrets at all but I must accept the fact he is done and has no desire to fix anything. He also said well as far as the divorce goes we don't have to push it through but we will not get back together just remember that. He also said he does not think he should have to pay alimony that he does not owe me that. And that I will get half of his 401K. CS he says I don't have a problem with that but alimoy he ddes. He says you could get a better job. I told him I am looking but so far no luck. I was not emotional at all during this time. I never cried or begged I just matter of fact listened to him and showed nothing.

I saw nothing in his eyes at all. They were just blank no feelings nothing...... Kinda scary really......

He does not get to decide what monies he owes you if there is a divorce ... dream on Mr Okla

Good job !

Lem

Hurting, sorry you had to hear his nonsense.

And I would like to know who the "friend" is in San Antonio.

Lady

Hurting,

Well, you did all you can do! And you did a good job doing it! At least you have a piece of mind, by knowing you told him what you did.

Best wishes and God Bless you! You are a true example to alot of folks here!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer68

Hurting, my H didn't have feelings in his eyes for a long time.

Thanks all of you ..... I did the best I could do....

I don't really think there is a friend in San Antonio. He said he was just going to stay in his truck since thats were he has been most of the time.

He said he will be through here to see DS and to take DS to the bowling tournment the 3 of Feb.

I am done with this. I am not having any more interactions with him except for the mediation thing. Which will be schedualed soon. He wants this done so be it. I can't stop it and I can't keep hoping for something that he says will never happen. He really believes its over and nothing can fix it. He says my depression brought him down and now he is up again and he won't risk me bringing him back down. I told him thats why I am in IC now so I won't go back there myself. He does not care he says he has no feelings for me and never will again. He said we can get along for the kids but thats it.

So 24 yrs of my life is now over and I have to move on without him. I know I can do it but I don't want to. I just wish he would at least have tried. The one thing is I will have no regrets in this lifetime I tried all I could, I fought as hard as I could to save this marriage. I really did......

((Hurting))

Nothing has really changed, stay on course, you will be fine regardless.

Jean,

What do you mean nothing has cchanged? He is done have to accept that....

He showed now feelings or emotions at all....He was so cold...

I want to hit your WH upside the head! Sorry, Hurting, but reading what he said to you just got me angry.

The depression was NOT your fault. He's making it sound like you "purposely" brought him down. Where was he for YOU? To provide you with support and comfort during this time? He was there, but was he THERE for you.

And what kind of a dad is he going to be moving away? How far away is SA from you?

I am proud of you Hurting for the way you handled yourself. You are so strong.

But I am so angry at WH.

Kim

Well, so much for that pesky little, "for better, for worse" thing.

He may be onto something, though. Your depression may have triggered depression in him, and instead of recognizing and dealing with it, he got involved in an affair as his form of self-medicating. I can understand his fear that if he gets back together with you, he'll become depressed again. I also agree with you that it doesn't have to happen-you are working hard to learn skills to help yourself and your marriage, and he can, too.

But I think moving to San Antonio and living out of his truck would be just the thing to make him crash right back into the depression he is fighting, and maybe he needs to in order to realize that what he needs to do is get back to his family and work on his marriage if he ever wants to feel right about himself.

Hurting, he was dead inside last week, a month ago, six months ago... You have been fine. You will continue to be fine. He may wake up, or he may not, but I don't know that he said anything different today than he has been saying.

Same ole, same ole.