SC, I find that when I am ill my emotions are just that closer to the surface. Hope you feel better. Violet and Brandi, glad you found this thread. What Dorry said about keeping secrets is true. It will destroy your soul. I am just over 1 year past my DD after a 10 year long secret. I am just at the point of really liking myself. Those secrets built up walls to protect me and ate away at my soul. I finally was able to accept God's forgiveness. I can also tell you that my H does not look upon me with disdain or anger anymore.

Good morning ladies ....

Read this with a cup of tea .... and relax

http://blessingsforlife.com/favforwards/daffodilprinciple.htm

don't forget.... just one baby-step at a time

Try not to gaze in your rear-view mirror one second longer than necessary .... moving forward requires your full attention.

In past experience, threads such as this can be more useful if you make plans for today, rather than voice repeated regrets about yesterday <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Discussions about OM are usually hurtful, not at all helpful in the long run.

Just a suggestion ! I've been on recovery boards a very long time, a different one prior to joining MB .... and strong women making their lives better always brings me joy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Love ya

I think it's the right advice Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think sometimes though - like Bs's - we just need to get the feelings out and be understood in order to move past it...hard thing for a FWW to do when for many of us - it was our complaints and feelings that got us in trouble in the first place....

But it's why I questioned the other day and realized part of my personal healing is remembering that today is today and tomorrow is tomorrow...

pep, i've read that before, but it was nice to read again. even with a cup of water, not tea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i cannot agree with you enough about discussions about OM. i for one am going to stay out of any discussions of that from now on.

now i am ok with someone saying, "i'm struggling with thoughts of OM today", but just so we can 2x4 them!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LOL FL.

I agree - revisiting OM yesterday in words didn't do much for me - I am so far past that. I more or less just like to talk about my feelings today with what is going on today...one of my silly rambles that don't really ever make sense to anyone LOL

every one of you is a blessing to the world

don't forget that about yourselves

LOL

I read this yesterday and sent it to Pep.

[color:"blue"] "'At every turn there's always something lovely.'" [/color]

Look for it!

Don't let the past drag you down. Look for what is lovely in the turn you took and where you are now!

This thread makes me smile for some reason. Look at what we became...what we overcame...we are not defined by our pasts.

FL, you made me LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

dorry

Thanks...I believe that as well. He has a choice on whether to deal with this on his own, or whether to turn to God. I keep praying that he his relationship with God will be restored, because I see that as the starting point of true recovery and restoration.


Yep, I've heard that too. I can totally understand how an A would deeply affect his relationship with God and how he would feel like God is absent in his life. But he knows the truth of what God is about and right now he's not choosing to follow God or seek His help.


MrsWondering

I appreciate your honesty. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My sister-in-law (my husband's sister) knows about this situation. My H actually told her soon after D-day. I was okay with her knowing and she has been a great support to me in this time. Anyway, I have talked to her about this and she has expressed the same thing.

Honestly, I am scared to death of divorce. I do still love my husband and I want to restore our marriage. I believe it can be done, but he really needs to do some work as well. I don't want to rip our lives apart. And in looking at the larger picture, divorce seems to me like the less desirable of the two choices. In the past few months, there have been times when I saw some true signs of recovery. I guess it is those times of hope that keep me going.

I feel like the classic abused woman who keeps staying, hoping things will get better. I hate that I've turned my life into this mess, but I feel like divorce would be a far greater mess.


I understand what you're saying. Last fall was the last time he was physical with me. Since then, things did take a turn for the better. And there have been a few incidents where he was verbally abusive...calling me names, etc...Maybe it seems like I am trying to rationalize or justify things, but I am just trying to explain that the abuse is not constant. In the past few months there have been more good days than bad days. For now, I am going to stay. I don't feel physically unsafe.


A while back when I brought up counseling, he threatened to divorce me even if I went on my own. But yesterday, when he was more calm, I brought it up again. He said I could go to counseling to figure out why I had the A, but he said "I don't need to go." So at least there is some opening for me.


No I don't believe God wants this for me. And from reading the Bible, I know that my H is not dealing with this in the way that God wants him to.


I didn't feel like this came across as harsh at all. Thank you for your post and I clearly see your concern coming through your words and that is much appreciated.

Honestly, I am scared to take that step to say "I'm leaving you if things don't get better." I have never been good at confronation and this is confrontation in a huge sort of way. I have been praying a lot and reading my Bible to see God's will. Even if I have to do something that seems scary, I know that if it's in God's will, then it is the right thing to do.

Thanks again for your post. These forums have been a great help to me.

Brandi

*hugs* I know what you mean about not feeling valued. But know that you ARE valuable and don't believe that the A defines who you are as a person. I'm glad you are posting here and I wish you the best.

dorry

Yes, I've had plenty of times when I have believed I was worthless. I've started to memorize scripture that I can use to respond to my husband or just to repeat to myself when I feel those negative thoughts creeping in. I mean in John 8, there is the story of the woman who committed adultery and Jesus says "Then neither do I condemn you." I had read that before, but I sobbed when I read it for the first time after D-day.


Thank you. That is good advice. Sometimes when we're in the car, I can't walk away so I just don't respond to his rude comments. But you are right that not engaging in those conversations is the best thing. I can't reason with him when he's angry.

So I've read through the end of this thread and I should probably get back to work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> From my short time here, I see that this is a great group of women.

where is everyone?

hey SM, i bumped up your original thread and posted to you in there.

Hello Ladies,

I have been following this thread and wanted to assure all of you that I am not bothered by any of it. I believe the difference between Mrs. Wondering's feelings as related by her posts and some of yours can be directly related to the empathy and understanding I have brought to the situation in our lives versus some of your husbands. (Allow me to include that Mrs. Wondering has been wonderfully instrumental, supportive and empathetic of my feelings as well). I find myself angry at y'all's husbands more than anything. Some, not all, seem to be unable to accept responsibility for their contribution to the state of their marriages prior to the affair, accept their vulnerability as humans to have done the same thing, and seem intent on continuing to keep y'all at a distance as either punishment, intimidation, or fear.

The husband that fails to forgive does so at his own peril. Just as going out and putting the "screws" to an OP is essentially only really "screwing" yourself...continuing to punish your WS only screws yourself. To put off reconciliation merely indicates your husbands fear of intimacy which is not your fault. Don't get me wrong, Mrs. Wondering and I still have our issues. Issues that predated her affair, however, the affair and OM is no longer the paramount issue in our lives...other than an as event we discuss openly and utilize as a learning tool and something that brings us closer (suprisingly). It forces us to confront conflict which we are both working on learning to address more effectively. We are still talking about it a lot but I think for the right reasons.

One story I can relate. As many of you know Mrs. Wondering was absent from here for a little while. Just before she came back she starting getting onto me for being here all the time. As if my being here was a constant reminder of her mistake/failing and perhaps I was punishing her by keeping at the forefront of my/our consciousness. But with her coming back and posting and my conversations with her she sees that I am here to assist others with my knowledge, legal expertise and desire to fight for what is right as well as my desire to learn and become a better husband for US. I am also here because prior to the affair my wife and I had read marriage material. We even found a list of “Husband Needs and Wive’s Needs” in a stack of material in the mudroom/lounge attached to our Atrium, in between the Guesthouse and the Maid’s Quarters (just kidding…seeing if you were paying attention). We'd seen the tools, but never internalized them, like WE have now being here on Marriage Builders. I am more secure in myself (really honey, that is possible) and my marriage because of Marriage Builders and I am committed to returning the favor to MB by offering assistance to OTHERS for one year. Then continuing periodically thereafter, to keep ME focused and to stay in touch with friends…assuming I make any. lol.

Back to you gals…Maybe some of your husbands are struggling more with their own security issues than I because I just don't get it. I understand recovery takes time but it doesn't have too if you don't want it too. To me it seems like a choice and they are choosing to drag this out. Who would want to be recovery for 2-5 years???? It’s just so odd that anyone would want to spend so much time “recovering” and dealing with issues of the past. They appear to me to not have any desire to be the best husbands they can be either to punish you, intimidate you or because they think they are entitled to it for as long as you let them. Maybe they are challenging you to see if you'll stick it out and not cheat again when the going gets tough again OR even more sinister hoping you'll cheat again so they can "prove" to themselves and everyone that their wives are really rotten/flawed and they don’t bear any of the blame. Whatever.

I also don't see how their issue AND choice to delay the recovery is "YOUR FAULT". It's as if you gals have cast the demons from your hearts but your husbands have failed to cast them out of their own. “For the two shall become One” as of your wedding day. If they have not repented for your sins (as well as their own), if they have not cast out the demons from their own selves and accepted responsibility and sham themselves then they remain unrepentant, against God and imbedded with satan … UNTIL THEY DO. It sounds like it. I commend you gals for your strength of character and for your commitment to stand by them as they do. Granted, It IS a process. (But Violet…if you do nothing, nothing will change…you don’t deserve to be treated like you were/are…it’s intimidation. Without pain he will likely not change. It sounds as though you have altered your standards but abandoned your own boundaries. You say he’ll let you do counseling. I suggest you call the Harleys)

Finally, I am not saying I am unsympathetic, I understand what they went through…I just don’t get them prolonging the pain unnecessarily for everybody…what’s in it for them??.

I do believe Mrs. Wondering and I are living in the present and working towards our future together...which is precisely why I am totally OK with rehashing the past and discussing OM. I don't want or need her to totally forget OM...as he is irrelevant to me today, no longer any danger to our marriage. In fact, he may saved our marriage. Now I won't be sending him a thank you note because I know we did and are doing the work ourselves. However, he provided the impetus for the catalysis in our relationship and I/we are more or less the benefactors of my wife and OM’s actions. Much more so than he as he only got a little sex a long time ago. We are the ones in an increasingly intimate relationship and one more intimate than I believe he is capable of. For that maybe he should be pitied. Nah…I’ll stick with indifference.

Do I consider myself completely recovered? NO. I still have some jealous thoughts about the times they were together and some anger. Not “punch a wall” type anger and not anywhere close to calling my wife names anger…just some generalized anger at mostly myself for having been so foolish. I am generally ashamed of my weak reactions last April and my allowing the situation to overcome me. I am getting over that and know I did pretty good in spite of myself. I hate that I questioned my own masculinity but in so doing I think I discovered myself. I have come to the conclusion that as a man, I get to define my own masculinity…period. It is not defined by my control over my wife, my wife’s mistakes or generally misfortune. It is defined by my actions. I have learned from MY past and I will define my masculinity, my marriage, and my life by what I do and what happens today and tomorrow will take care of itself.

No regrets, no worries.

Mr. Wondering

Mr. Wonderful...

Great post luv...BTW, even in reading I can still recognize your yankee accent...even with all the y'alls...true southern is to the bone, and just can't be faked...TEE HEE HEE!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Sorry - I was gone all day - dentist appointments and volunterring at the kindergarden class...


I don't think my husband WANTS to spend so much time recovering, nor do I think he forgets about his contributions. I think it's the opposite to be honest. He wont apologize for his affair, but he will apologize for the way he treated me before mine that set this whole thing in motion. The thing is - he does try to make changes then it peters out. i think in my H's case it's not the maritial recovery that's the problem - it's the personal recovery hindering the maritial recoveyr - make sense? I think he is so down on himself - he failed his wife, then his wife destroyed him - what a failure I am...and he can't get out of it - sure he does on some days - but it's a tough mountain for my H to climb. And unfortunately - he isn't aware greatly on the effects his climb has on others.

While I have a mountain to climb as well, I am very careful that each step up doesn't hurt or effect others around me...and maybe I am more resilient than my husband...my mountain maybe isn't as steep, or I climb faster. My husband is a genious intellectual - he can climb mentally fast - but I think it takes from him emotionally and his feelings are VERY black and white - high and low...always have been.

Since my H had his A though - he has started looking at the present more and more...but he has his bad days and they are HARD on me. I can't even call them bad days - as before his A were BAD days - I don't know what it is. Last night for example - he held my hand and was loving...but he had some moments that he was sharp and distant - this was a better night. Maybe the sharp and distant are my own problems, my own perceptions? Maybe they aren't him at all - ya know?

Other days he has a constant distance - like he isn't okay being around me. I think those days aren't about me at all and my A...but more about him. His confidence is still low and I don't think he feels good about himself - and it's why he throws himself into his work as it's something he's good at and it provides for the family - it's his way of showing me he can do something right - he can suceed at work and provide for the family - it's something I can see in him - as if working hard is his way of showing me he loves me.

Before I would get mad - now I am seeing and learning about my H - that he shows me he loves me in wierd ways...ways I don't really like - but the more I understand them - the more I love them...things I should have understood before. Ya know?

I think that some men - just don't know how to get out of a rut - they just take day by day as it comes...and hope tomorrow is better. And I do believe those men do heal - it just takes a long time....

Patience...and then one day i can have sex again lol - we are averaging once every month or two right now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I can't wait till he REALLY wants me again...

Post deleted by SoSorryGreen

(((SSG))))

Keep growing and changing, and God will bring someone Good into your life - whether it be your husband back or someone new. And this time you will be ready to have a marriage that was meant to be as you will have made great changes to who you are. You are an amazing woman, and as sad as your concequences are, I am proud of you for accepting them. It's not easy...

Post deleted by SoSorryGreen

{{SSG}}

Mr. W, you are welcome here anytime to give your POV and just be darn sweet to your W. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Great post Dorry and good insight into sprint.