Agreeing to the NC letter is the litmus test for me. That one seems to be the stumbling block for many WS's.

Sleep well tonight.

YIKES!!! I started just tossing my WH's letters in the trash without reading them. LOL!!!!!!!!

Beautiful letter, Shattered!

Soon you'll have to adopt a new name for the MB boards. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

MrsStowaway,
Thank you. I am going to set up an appt with the Harleys. I think it will be helpful for him. He seems really humiliated right now. I feel sorry for him. I asked him to call our friend that had a talk with him initially (a former WH). This man has helped me these past few months and has known WH since he was a boy. He loves him and just wants to show his support. WH said he is not ready to face him.

Yes, a good plan is in order!

Thank you Hope. I hope you too find some love and peace in your future. You deserve it as well.

I would like him to but he is technically challenged. At some point I may ask him to read some stuff here but I don't envision him becoming a regular poster. He usually has me do his computer stuff for him.

I love your spunk Believer! You are a good example of a good recovery without WH.

Thank you RiverTam. I do need a new name!

Shattered - Have you read all of the "Quick Click" articles on the home page here? Restoration, overcoming resentment, forgiving? I would get real familiar with those. It is likely that you will have to do a lot of work in recovery, and they may help.

Thanks Believer. I do need to go and read them. Even if I have read them before, I was not in the position I am now. I have to reacquaint myself with the suggestions that apply to each stage as I enter it.

And Suzet posted this on another thread this morning. Don't know if you saw it.

WHAT THE WS/BS MUST DO TO RECONCILE

JUST GET OVER IT ALREADY!
How many times has that been said to you? If it has been said to you even once, then that is a big red flag! No one has the right to tell this to you. If it is your therapist telling you this, then you need a new therapist because obviously this one has no understanding of infidelity. If it is your spouse telling you this, then they have no understanding of the devastation that they have caused.

In order to "get over it", you and your spouse must be given the proper tools and a map. I do not feel that you can successfully navigate the road from infidelity towards healing without these two things.

You do not really "get over it"...you can move beyond it, but you will carry the scars for life as a reminder. You do not forget, but you can forgive...if and only if you and your spouse have the tools and the map.

The former cheating spouse has the biggest responsibility in the healing process. They hold the key for the healing of you and your marriage.

Your spouse must be willing to make it their mission in life to heal you...no matter how long it takes. They should not have to even ask you what you need to help you heal...they should seek professional advice from others and start implementing it immediately. Maybe down the road they will need to seek your own personal advice. You hold the timeline to your own healing.

They need to explain to the children, if they are old enough, that they have hurt you terribly and that they are doing everything to help you heal. They need to tell the children that it is not the children's fault or the betrayed spouses fault. If they see the betrayed spouse getting angry at the former cheating spouse, that this is normal and well deserved and part of healing. They are to be told that they are not to blame the betrayed spouse for their emotional outbursts toward the cheating spouse and that the betrayed spouse should be commended for being willing to give them another chance because they do not deserve it.

In order for your marriage to successfully survive these are some things that your spouse must do:

1. He must be totally honest with you about everything
2. He must answer every question that you ask truthfully and fully.
3. He must do everything in his power to prove to you that you are the one that he wants to be with.
4. He must prove his love to you...he must be patient, gentle, compassionate and understanding.
5. He must feel your pain.
6. He must fully understand the devastation that he caused you.
7. He must accept full responsibility for his actions.
8. He must stop all contact with OP and not try to protect them.
9. He must reassure you that it is OK to ask questions.
10. He must reassure you that you will not drive him away by doing the things that are necessary to heal.
11. He must recognize when your struggling or experiencing a trigger and comfort you.
12. He must be able to tell you how sorry he is and show you.
13. He must re-enforce to you, that you are not responsible.
14. He must put his own feelings of guilt and shame aside and help you heal first.
15. He must reconnect emotionally, mentally, and physically with you and stay connected.
16. He must work on rebuilding trust. No secrets. No privacy.
17. He must be willing to seek counseling.
18. He must learn what is and is not acceptable when communicating with the opposite sex...he must establish boundaries and not cross them.

Here is a list of things that you must do:

1. Give him the necessary time to prove his love and commitment to you.
2. Be open with your feelings.
3. Ask the questions that are important to you.
4. Don't be afraid that you will drive him away while you are trying to heal.
5. Stop blaming yourself for his actions. You are in no way responsible...even if you are Attila the Hun!
6. You must be able to let him connect with you. (this one takes time)
7. You must continue checking up on him in order to let him rebuild trust.
8. You must be willing to seek counseling so that you do not get stuck in one of the stages of recovery such as anger or depression.

These are just a few of the things that I have thought of off the top of my head. With these things in place, then reconciliation can be successful. It is still a long journey, but with baby steps it can be achieved. For me, with all these things in place it took about 1 1/2 years to get to a really comfortable place. Without a majority of these things, I do not see how reconciliation can be successful.

If you were to decide to climb Mt Everest and you looked in the phone book under expeditions and called a company and told them that you wanted to climb Mt Everest and they said great. Then you would ask them how to do it. If their reply was to "just get over it", then I am sure that you would call some other company. You would know that it would require the proper tools and a map and a team approach. Well, you are facing a mountain that you need and want to climb. You cannot "just get over it". It doesn't happen that way. It will take the proper tools and a map and team work.

The majority of the things that I mentioned must take place from BOTH spouses before a successful reconciliation takes place. I am also only addressing reconciliation here, however the betrayed spouse has other options. If your spouse is doing EVERYTHING that has been recommended by the therapist to help you heal and you have made NO progress after say 1 year, then the betrayed spouse probably needs a new therapist who can help her better evaluate the situation and help her to start giving her spouse credit for what he is doing or come up with other options rather than reconciliation. Some betrayed spouses cannot reconcile no matter what their spouse does, but they may need therapy to move beyond the infidelity anyway.

If after 6 mos, the betrayed spouse has NOT progressed and the former cheating spouse is NOT doing his part, then there is no reason to expect any progress from the betrayed spouse toward reconciliation. Each person has a role in the reconciliation process...including knowing when enough is enough. I would never expect a former cheating spouse to be able to hang in there after 1 1/2 to 2 years of doing EVERYTHING recommended and seeing NO progress from the BS. I would also never expect a betrayed spouse to hang on for years if her spouse is doing NOTHING to help her heal.

I believe that forgiveness is independent of the cheater helping you heal. Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself...not the other person.

In the early stages the former cheater needs to find out from professionals what to do to help you heal. The wounded spouse is often in no condition to be able to know this in the beginning. Once the wounded spouse is down the road towards recovery, then they will be able to fine tune what is needed, but initially...no way.

...of course without selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, and angry outbursts. Right?

Shattered, I am sooooo happy for you!!!

Wow, talk about sudden enlightenment! I wish you the very best!

Lost, Thank you for your good wishes. Believer, thank you for all the reading I will be doing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Okay, one of WH needs is for me to fix him dinner every night. OW was doing this for him, cooking him all his favorite foods from scratch.

It seems lately when he's here if I have a dinner prepared, he's not hungry or ate already. If I don't prepare something, he is scouring the refridge for something to eat.

So, since I knew he was coming last night I asked him. Would you like me to make you something for dinner or are you going to eat before you come? He said "Sure" you can make me something. I asked what he'd like, he didn't know, said anything is fine. Okay, done deal.

I scurry to food store as it was already afternoon and spent about $30 buying food. I made chicken soup from scratch since he had a cold. I made a broccli, chicken, and cheddar pie to go with it and some dinner rolls. WH usually comes an hour before practice on Thursdays so I figured he'd come then or a little earlier. I had dinner warming on the stove for him around 5:30.

WH shows up around 6:30. He tells me he stopped at friend's house who is going to help him move. Says wife fixed him a hamburger. I said "Didn't you tell her you were coming here for dinner?" He said "I told her I didn't want one but she fixed it anyway." He wasn't hungry. I told him I went to store, etc.

At the heart of this issue is something that has bothered me on and off throughout our marriage. I NEED TO COME FIRST. The way I see it is he felt better blowing me off than firmly restating NO, I can't eat here, S. is fixing me dinner. Gotta go. Time and again he has a hard time saying no to others while he tramples my feelings.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Shattered - I'm thinking this over. I won't be much help, because my WH is the same way.

First and foremost.... CONGRATS Shattered05!!! This is great news, and I, for one, predicted this some time ago. You can chalk this up to a stellar Plan A, with a proper amount of committment, resolve, disattachment, creativity and unconditional love. If only all BS's "got it" like you did! If only I had "got it" as quickly as you did... LOL!

You have received great advice above on beginning the path towards recovey. I will only add...addictions are strong, so stay vigilant regarding NC. It is difficult for the WS, especially at first, and the pull towards the OW will be strong, and he'll have to fight it constantly. Let him know you can be talked to at any time he feels the need, and promise you will remain calm and reasonable; ie, no LB's!

Much of the recovery path must be done "on the fly", in real time, without much in the way of "proven" maps to guide you. It is an extremely interpersonal experience unique to you and your (F)WH. Take your time. Think things through. Revisit "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs/Her Needs". Use the overall concepts as your "guide".

The fixing dinner thing is just one of many from your Pre-Affair marriage that will manifest it's ugly self during your recovery efforts. You will come up on some, if not several, things that "irked" the other in your Pre-A marriage. Harley's principals MUST be applied, and both parties must be willing to address those issues.

If these things are not addressed, your marriage will slip back into exactly the same (damaging) patterns that left the marriage vulnerable in the first place.

POJA all of these items, discussing them in detail. Let WH know how it hurt your feelings that he ate before he came over, when you expected to feed him dinner. Let him know how these "little" things can add up to big resentment, thereby creating friction between the two of you. And you must treat us men a bit like a new puppy.... if we correct a behavior that annoyed you in the past, reward us in some way... we're pretty easily "molded" by attention and affection (including SF), and CAN be "trained"... LOL!

I'm very happy for you and your progress. Keep up the good work and keep posting for support and advice. (I'm weaning from the boards so I may be less visible in the future). As always.....

Best wishes,
SD

bumping up

"If these things are not addressed, your marriage will slip back into exactly the same (damaging) patterns that left the marriage vulnerable in the first place."

He is exactly right about this one.

My WH constantly put me last. I can't even count the number of dinners I cooked and he didn't show up. Even though I told him calmly how it hurt me, he didn't put any effort into changing.

I hope you get this settled. It is a big read flag for me.

I'm staggered that he would do this at a stage when you are so full of expectation and hope for the future. Imagine it reversed - he has put a lot of time and effort into arranging a nice date for you. Booked the restaurant, ordered your favourite meal in advance, dressed appropriately - and then you are one hour late and not hungry because you ate at a friend's house!!! It is so disrespectful to you. I'm sure you were very hurt.

At the very least a phone call would have been in order to let you know what time he'd be there and to ask if you minded him eating with his friends.

Sorry for the setback. Dinner sounded delicious. TT

Shattered05,
PLEASE consider joint phone counseling with the Harleys...

If he can't tell his friend's wife that you are going to the trouble of making dinner for him; which I KNOW she would understand... this concerns me.

Also, why not eat your yummy dinner anyway to spare your feelings? Is it too much to ask that he notice the trouble you went to and try the food, and thank you profusely, and apologize profusely for eating already?

Call the Harleys!

MSA

Yes Believer, I agree completely.