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twotimes #1569974 02/05/06 12:31 PM
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Yay <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, I didn't scare you off! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'm an Intimate or Sexual Instinctual Subtype and I can be VERY intense at times! I was scared that I came on too strong and scared the bejeebers out of you!

I'm really excited for you two. Just my opinion, but if you could get into therapy with someone who USES the Enneagram as a tool it would be VERY helpful. If your H is a Four, as mine is, he will most likely be unaware that he is trying to use it against you (that "against you" sounds too strong, but I think you know what I mean).

My H and I actually saw the same therapist quite a bit for individual counseling. When we had a disagreement about an Enneagram trait, it would often end up being chalked up to the Four's poor personal boundaries and my therapist was more than willing to point that out! LOL! She was a Six by the way.

I was on the "correct" side of that 98% of the time. I'm not bragging, but H and I have done a lot of healing and have a pretty good idea of how the Enneagram works. We rarely even disagree on much anymore. If you have a particular area in question, you are welcome to email me and I'll give you my 2 cents worth until you can eventually find someone local to help you in this area. stillwed@gmail.com

The most outstanding piece of info I can tell you about recognizing the Four is that they go through life feeling like something is missing. They are waiting for someone to come along and rescue them from their ordinary life. They have to heal that inner wound in order for that longing to end. Another thing that is very important for them is to have a spiritual pursuit of some kind. That can be very broadly defined too...it could be commitment to meditation, any religion, deep Enneagram study...anything that leads to personal wholeness.

The answers to this type Four puzzle often lie in their childhood. They often were sad and melancholic and came to identify being truly happy with being sad and melancholic. It's like they have to relearn how to "do" happy! This isn't across the board, but unhealthy Fours will usually identify with this feeling. What was H's childhood like? Relationships with "mom" often come into play in men who have affairs. The unhealthy Four tends to believe that the woman in their life is responsible for MAKING them happy. This is the first belief that has to go. They alone are responsible for finding their happiness. Otherwise they will never be capable of having an interdependent relationship, but instead will be dependent on external sources of so called "self-esteem, which in reality can only come from inside of one's self.

I'd like to pin down your type more specifically. Would you mind doing the paragraph test? H can do it too...maybe we can identify his wing this way.

Here it is...pick your top one or two and we'll see what you come up with!

Quote
Quoted from The Essential Enneagram by David Daniels and Virginia Price:

A) “I approach things in an all-or-nothing way, especially issues that matter to me. I place a lot of value on being strong, honest, and dependable. What you see is what you get. I don't trust others until they have proven themselves to be reliable. I like people to be direct with me, and I know what someone is being devious, lying, or trying to manipulate me. I have a hard time tolerating weakness in people, unless I understand the reason for their weakness or I see that they're trying to do something about it. I also have hard time following orders or direction if I do not respect or agree with the person in authority. I am much better at taking charge myself. I find it difficult to display my feelings when I am angry. I am always ready to stick up for my friends or loved ones, especially if I think they are being treated unjustly. I may not win every battle with others, but they'll know I've been there.”


B) “I have high internal standards for correctness, and I expect myself to live up to those standards. It's easy for me to see what's wrong with the things as they are and to see how they could be improved. I may come across to some people as overly critical or demanding perfection, but it's hard for me to ignore or accept things that are not done the right way. I prided myself on the fact that if I'm responsible for doing something, you can be sure I'll do it right. I sometimes have feelings of resentment when people don't try to do things properly or when people act irresponsibly or unfairly, although I usually try not to show it to them openly. For me, it is usually work before pleasure, and I suppress my desires as necessary to get the work done.”

C) “I seem to be able to see all points of view pretty easily. I may even appear indecisive at times because I can see advantages and disadvantages on all sides. The ability to see all sides makes me good at helping people resolve their differences. This same ability can sometimes lead me to be more aware of other people's positions, agendas, and personal priorities than of my own. It is not unusual for me to become distracted and then to get off task on the important things I'm trying to do. When that happens, my attention is often diverted to unimportant trivial tasks. I have a hard time knowing what is really important to me, and I avoid conflict by going along with what others want. People tend to consider me to be easygoing, pleasing and agreeable. It takes a lot to get me to the point of showing my anger directly at someone. I like life to be comfortable, harmonious, and others to be accepting of me.”

D) “I am sensitive to other people's feelings. I can see what they need, even when I don't know them. Sometimes it's frustrating to be so aware of people's needs, especially their pain or unhappiness, because I'm not able to do as much for them as I'd like to. It's easy for me to give of myself. I sometimes wish I were better at saying no, because I end up putting more energy into caring for others than into taking care of myself. It hurts my feelings if people think I'm trying to manipulate them or control them when all I'm trying to do is understand and help them. I like to be seen as a warmhearted and good person, but when I'm not taken into account or appreciated I ca become very emotional or even demanding. Good relationships mean a great deal to me, and I'm willing to work hard to make them happen.”

E)” Being the best at what I do is a strong motivator for me, and I have received a lot of recognition over the years for my accomplishments. I get a lot done and am successful in almost everything I take on. I identify strongly with what I do, because to a large degree I think your value is based on what you accomplish and the recognition you get for it. I always have more to do than will fit into the time available, so I often set aside feelings and self-reflection in order to get things done. Because there's always something to do, I find it hard to just sit and do nothing. I get impatient with people who don't use my time well. Sometimes I would rather just take over a project someone is completing too slowly. I like to feel and appear "on top" of any situation. While I like to compete, I am also a good team player.”

F) “I would characterize myself as a quiet, analytical person who needs more time alone than most people do. I usually prefer to observe what is going on rather than be involved in the middle of it. I don't like people to place too many demands on me or to expect me to know and report what I am feeling. I'm able to get in touch with my feelings better when alone than with others, and I often enjoy experiences I've had more when reliving them than when actually going through them. I'm almost never bored when alone, because I have an active mental life. It is important for me to protect my time and energy and hence, to live a simple, uncomplicated life and be as self-sufficient as possible.”

G) “I have a vivid imagination, especially when it comes to what might be threatening to safety and security. I can usually spot what could be dangerous or hurtful and my experience as much fear as if it were really happening. I either always avoid danger or always challenge it head-on. My imagination also leads to my ingenuity and a good, if somewhat offbeat, sense of humor. I would like for life to be more certain, but in general I seem to doubt the people and things around me. I can usually see the shortcomings in the view someone is putting forward. I suppose that, as a consequence, some people may consider me to be very astute. I tend to be suspicious of authority and am not particularly comfortable being seen as the authority. Because I can see what is wrong with the generally held view of things, I tend to identify with underdog causes. Once I have committed myself to a person or cause, I am very loyal to it.”

H) “I am an optimistic person who enjoys coming up with new and interesting things to do. I have a very active mind that quickly moves back and forth between different ideas. I like to get a global picture of how all these ideas fit together, and I get excited when I can connect concepts that initially don't appear to be related. I like to work on things that interest me, and I have a lot of energy to devote to them. I have a hard time sticking with unrewarding and repetitive tasks. I like to be in on the beginning of a project, during the planning phase, when there may be many interesting options to consider. when I have exhausted my interest in something, it is difficult for me to stay with it, because I want to move on to the next thing that has captured my interest. If something gets me down, I prefer to shift my attention to more pleasant ideas. I believe people are entitled to an enjoyable life.”


I) “I am a sensitive person with intense feelings. I often feel misunderstood and lonely, because I feel different from everyone else. My behavior can appear like drama to others, and I have been criticized for being overly sensitive and overamplifying my feelings. What is really going on inside is my longing for both emotional connection and a deeply felt experience of relationship. I have difficulty fully appreciating present relationships because of my tendency to want what I can't have and to disdain what I do have. The search for emotional connection has been with me all of my life, and the absence of emotional connection has led to melancholy and depression. I sometimes wonder why other people seem to have more than I do--better relationships and happier lives. I have a refined sense of aesthetics, and I experience a rich world of emotions and meaning.”



When you read about the Four, it can be a bit discouraging because even at the "average" level, they are struggling to keep their heads above water in so many ways. However, they are the most empathetic type in many ways. They make wonderful partners. With a Three wing they can also be extremely nurturing. My H gives to a fault within our sexual relationship for example. He loves to nurture me and encourage me in so many ways! The Five wing is a little different...often more self-focused and not as outgoing...definitely not at nurturing.

I'm looking forward to keeping this going. It's hard to find you over here in GQII. The In Recovery forum is much slower...you rarely have to look past the first page to find your thread. If you want to move this over there, feel free!

I'm really looking forward to getting to know you guys!!

Stillwed


Me-BS age 48 Enneagram type 1w2 H-FWS age 49 Enneagram type 4w3 Married 30 years 3 grown kids 5 grandkids! D-day 1: 11/86 1 affair D-day 2: 1/4/03 H revealed 8 more affairs
stillwed #1569975 02/05/06 05:18 PM
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Stillwed,

How do I move this over to in recovery?


Me BS age 48 H WS age 48 M 24 yrs 3 DS 21,19,16 D-day 1 1/96 D-day 2 1/06 (different OW) Rumors of others during D-day 2
twotimes #1569976 02/05/06 05:41 PM
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Stillwed,

OK - the paragraph test. I think I used to be a strong B with some C, but as I've aged and mellowed, I think the C has taken over, with some E, although others have characterized me as B. My H is probably more of an I, with F.

I took a leadership class through work and we did the Myers-Briggs, and the DiSC profile. Basically, I can be a charmer who gets along with most people because I'm able to flex my style. At work, I'm best at seeing all sides of things and building consensus. I'm more intellegent than most, but very analytical. My H doesn't like to discuss most intellectual things with me, he prefers discussions on the entertainment, music, sports and art world to the science and potitics that I love to debate.

As soon as I figure this out, I'll move the thread to In recovery.


Me BS age 48 H WS age 48 M 24 yrs 3 DS 21,19,16 D-day 1 1/96 D-day 2 1/06 (different OW) Rumors of others during D-day 2
twotimes #1569977 02/05/06 06:05 PM
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Hey Twotimes,

I'll just start us a thread over on In Recovery! I haven't a clue as to how to actually move this one either...or even if it's possible.

Wow..."B" is the type One like me. "C" is the Nine which, if it's a really good fit would make you a One with a Nine wing. However, you said that as you've mellowed, you feel more like the Nine. To get your most accurate type, I'd go with the "younger" you. That is because the closer we are to our early twenties the easier it is to see our type.

In your testing through the Enneagram Institute, you said that you were pretty close with Three and Six. That's interesting because Three, Six, and Nine are all connected. That leads me to think that you might be a Nine...going to Three as your Path of Integration and Six as your Path of Disintegration.

I was thinking about you guys with no place to go because of the snow and it sounded so cozy and nice!!

See you over on "In Recovery"!

Still


Me-BS age 48 Enneagram type 1w2 H-FWS age 49 Enneagram type 4w3 Married 30 years 3 grown kids 5 grandkids! D-day 1: 11/86 1 affair D-day 2: 1/4/03 H revealed 8 more affairs
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