I still don't understand - is NC a restraining order?

Her parents paid for you to go to FL but they are not in favor of the affair?

no this is just a NC by the courts not a restraining order... this is related to assault charges.. it wierd how the laws work here..that is about to change... as for the getting away her mom payed for me to come down here... her mom and i are good friends... and yes her mom and dad do not condone this affair... i hope this clears the air..

How hard would it be for you to relocate?

The reasons I suggest this are the following:

You have to get your brother out of your life. He is not willing to break the affair and your parents do not want “to take sides”. (BTW at the same time failing miserably as parents whose obligation is, amongst other, to raise their children in a moral way). If your parents will not help and your brother keeps contact then you will have to distance yourself from them.

Your MIL seems supportive. Would moving to Fl be an option?

At the least tell your parents that in an unchanged environment you will have to move your family away from the threat. That includes the grandchildren.

How do you talk to your brother about this? Do you do it alone? Are you confrontational? If you have a priest then consider asking him to sit as an intermediary in a meeting between you. There point out how wrong this is to your brother. Ask him how he expects your children to grow up in this environment, how he expects WW to support the children in case of divorce. How their interaction will be with their grandparents and uncle. Consider doing he same with your wife.

help... i went online and noticed that she had added pics to her myspace site... and i noticed that she had erased the pictures of me and replaced them with her and the kids but she kept the one pic of her and my brother... i am confusd what am i to think of that... part of me doesnt care but most of me does that seems like a slap in the face of saying i dont want you in my life... hellp i so mad and confused... i dont know what to do i tried to call her cell and ask so i know the phone# showed and she knew that it was me but... i sent her an email and asked what happened to my pics.. but know response should i just show her that this doesnt bother me or is the cat already out of the bag??? helppp

help wife wrote " i love who we used to be and i miss the love we once had, but so many things have happened between us on both of our parts the have changed that an i honestly don knowi i want to change into the person that you want me to be t make this work and im not sure its the best thing for everyone... i told her i only want what she can give me and we work on it... she then say i think you want me to fall in love with you again but it is hard to do that cause i see you so differently now and i dont think ther is anything there with us anymore and i think that we have become two seperate people... what the ****** am i supposed to think of all of that... has she already decided or is she still if lala land... please help me i dont know what to think or to do.....

jolivar1,

Hello man! I remember those panic feelings from way back when ...

Right now, you've got to get a grip on yourself. That's your #1 task. Unless you can take charge of yourself - make clear decisions with a calm, focussed miend and follow through on the plan, you are pretty likely to lose this.

You are not in a sprint here. This will not be fixed tomorrow, nor next week, nor next month nor probably even this 2006 year. This is a marathon. Get your mind in marathon mode. Pace yourself. Discipline yourself. Don't panic if you seem to be running last. Take your time.

There are several levers that you might pry on, but just prying on the levers blindly is very unlikely to work. Just go to the bookstore and buy "Surviving An Affair", by Harley. If the first bookstore doesn't have it, drive to another. Also get "Love Must Be Tough". Read them all the way through. Think. Take some walks along the beach. There is no rush. Nothing you can do in a hurry will fix this in a hurry. Nobody here can tell you the quick and easy solution. You need to understand, and plan, and gather your strength to stick to the plan to it's conclusion. You may win. You may lose, but your best chance requires that you first get a grip on yourself.

I think your financial pullback is a good thing to do. I think holding off on relationship talk is also a good move. But these have to be part of an integrated plan. Get some winners here (like Mortar Man, Bob Pure) and listen to them.

Don't beg or chase her.

Never forget that, to your children, you are the pure definition of what a Father is. Stand up every day and live as a man your children can use as an example. Don't forget that they need to see you as a rock in the storm.

-AD

jolivar1,

I basically agree with what AD is saying but I don't like the analogy. I prefer to think of it more like the Tour de France. I am not a big bike race fan but my options are limited here. Anyway, I think of this process like the Tour. Yes you are in it for the long haul and it will take a lot of time but you will find that sometimes you are in a speed trial. So the pace is not constant. I mention this because I tend to agree with AD in that you need to get yourself together and do that part fairly quickly. Establish a plan. During the course of that plan, you are likely to run across various crises. When you do, this web site is a great place to come for great advice. Don't let the crisis derail your plan. Work through it. In the Tour, the speed trials have a large say in who wins so how you come through those crises, IMO, will have a significant impact on the result.

One other thing about the Tour, just because you appear to not be in first place does not mean you are not winning. It is a very complex race to understand.

Okay, that is enough for my analogy.

Everyone here has been where you are now. The following is my verbal thrashing written with the sole intent to shake you to your senses. I hope you take it that way.

You must find a way to manage your feelings not based on your WW’s actions and words. She is in a fog and doesn’t care. You can rely on nothing your WW says or does now. If your goal is to R, you will have to carry the ladder, work the saw and hammer the nails to rebuild your house of marriage.

I recommend that you talk to your parents and help them understand that a big part of being parents is to set the moral tone for their kids’ conduct. Appeal to their sense of fairness concerning family. Help them to see that their tacit complicity will hurt their own grandchildren.

Women like to see their husbands as strong. You need to step up to the plate and be strong for her, for yourself, for your marriage and for your kids. She will not respect you until you do so. If there is any chance that she will love you again, you must do this first.

thanks to all i am truely trying to do all of these things but at this point in the game i get derailed by her beauty and charm and let go of what im feeling and do what i need to for her.. i have started to go back to work and she isnt to happy with that cause i work this wkend so she has no one to watch the kids... she said to me i see where your priorities are and to have fun... my parents say that she looks real fatigued. so basically i can look for a long uphill climb... so what do i do about living with my parents my brother also lives there he was trying to make small talk yesterday and i just ignored. him.. as for the emails she cut and cropped them for him to add to his myspace site.. but i didnt let him know that it bothered. me... although it does.. is that pathetic... what part of no contact do they not understand...

In my opinion, some WW's believe that no sex means no contact. They try to differentiate between EA and PA. Your WW will need to understand that there is no difference and then decide for NC. Since the OM is your brother, NC will be very difficult. I like Bigger's suggestion of moving.

There are plenty of beautiful women out there. If you believe your WW is so pretty, that is one indication you are still in love. Good sign. When you fall out of love, you will realize she is not nearly as pretty as you once thought. Let's hope you never have to see her that way.

i got both of those books and im almost done with one of them... it is rather insightful the toughlove one... alot of those feeling i can relate too.... i havent spoken to her today this will be 2days now and it doesnt get easier... again as for my brother he continues with the small talk.... i told him this morning that he doesnt have to hide his phone or emails from me that i just dont care anymore i cant do anything about it... i was supposed to go back to work but i got called off and that is good cause it gave me some time to finish some of the toughlove book and run errands... as for what is going to happen when im have to confront my wife i hope that i will have the confidence and self respect to not fold under her beauty and charm.... i have to say today is a good day im not crying and i feel good about myself... that is today... i have IC tommorrow and hopefully it will continue... i am looking for a roomate for an apt till all this blows over so ive looking at the college and universities for ads wish me luck... ill need it... as for when i have my kids ill just go over to my moms house... i really dont like this Plan B but if this is what i have to do then so be it... any suggestions on how i keep the finances. straight and only pay for the mortgage and the electric... and all else(luxuries)to be eliminated.. help thanks to all

Hi Jolivar1,

I don't get on every day any more.

About your kids: You are their Dad. Can you keep them away from your brother? I certainly would not allow him to intereact with them at all - except when they are with their mother.

Did you talk to your brother about him making the house payments? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There is no society on earth which condones messing with a brother's wife.

Every time you see your brother, you need to tell him plainly how reprehensible his behaviour is. And ... you need to expose this to everybody. Grandparents, neighbors, your brother's friends (if they don't know), your wife's friends (if they don't know) etc.

Look, your brother is your enemy right now. You need to get in his face and tell him in no uncertain terms that he is to stay away from your wife - that he is not to speak to her, email her, visit her or have any communications at all with her. If I were you I would insist that he get out of your parents house. Push your parents if you have to. Tell them to make a choice - do they support him in his affair with your wife or do they support you. Be a man! Don't let them nice nice over all this. This is not nice! This has the potential of really messing up your children's lives. This has already done some pretty significant damage to your life.

As for your wife, well, listen to the books - but for your brother there is no book. Stop telling him "there's nothing you can do". Don't role over and let him walk on you.

-AD

AD’s post is spot on the money. Read it again and again and implement it!

What strikes me the most is the lack of support your family offers. You really have to sit down with parents and make no uncertain claim to their support. Point out the consequences of your brothers and WW actions:
Unchanged this can only lead to divorce. Your kids (their grandkids) raised by a single parent that is deciding her present future on the heat of her crotch (sorry – there is no kind or nice way to put this).
If this leads to divorce you do not know how you will handle your brother. This might force you to distance yourself from the family.
If you divorce there is little you can do if WW moves with the kid’s. Making contact with you and with grandparents hard.
A divorce will encumber you with financial obligations making starting a new family or getting further education hard for you.

I think you should also make some of these points clear to your brother. Not that I think it will make any difference to him. But remember he is your enemy.

I am still waiting for an answer on the possibility of you and wife relocating. Even if you two get together again I can not see how you can have “normal” contact with your brother.

i dont have normal contact with him... as for relocating i cant until my contract is finished with my job... i tried to talk to him and he blew up at me and the reasons for all of this behavior is all of the problems that her and i had been having and it hit me she brought him into our marriage by brainwaching with all of these halftruths...he still doesnt want to hear my side of the problems cause he feels that she has no reason to lie to him... but she does it tranfers the guilt that she should be feeling onto me and then she can continue to do what she wants... as for my kids she has made it that i can only get my kids through a third party... i am to have no contact what so ever with her or my kids and where they go to school... i am not an animal i have made no threats so why do all of thiss. and she says it that she doesnt want anykind of contact with me and she is afraid that she will when i go to pick up my children cause we live across the street from the school... i just dont know what to feel with all of this going on..... she isnt going to counseling so i feel that R is out of the picture right now ... but im reading to give it time and let the affair fizzle out.... but as for my parents they still continue to not take sides no matter what i say... ive disrespected them by telling that they failed in istilling any values in my brothers and my pure blood spanish fathter say well that is how you see if you want to leave you can... as for my mom it is tolling on her but she stills says the same old thing.... and the wheels keep spinning .... i will be back soon... sorry so long

help... after that talk with my brother... the next day he left only to show up at my house and he is now staying there with my wife... i dont want to push her away but i dont like this situation. that she is doing here... im angered and i just want to nnnnnnnAAASAdlkjads... but i have she has this protective order on me so i cant do any thing about.... hhhhheeeeeollllllppppp please... i have even spoken to a psychologist to up my meds....

jolivar,

You have to accept, you can not control or force her or your brother to do anything. You can make things very hard for them to continue on with though.

I'd say based on your explanations so far, continue to pay for only what you must. I would seek legal advice on this matter. Force your brother to get a job, and see how much of a blow that in itself is to fantasy land.

You gotta suck it up. It really sucks, we all know. But, each and every BH here is gonna tell ya the same thing, you can't make her do anything. She is gonna have to ride this one out, and discover that you are the better man. Unfortunately, this really hurts you in the process. You can only hope to protect your love for her, and to accelerate the breakdown of fantasy land. Reality is generally the bills stacking up so high, they end up fighting about money...and that just ain't fun for anyone.

-hang in there

Jolivar1,

Make some things clear to us.

1) Do you have an order from a judge not to contact your wife? Why? What exactly does it say? How long is it in effect? Again, why? Did you have a lawyer represent you? Did you show up for court?

2) Do you have an order which requires you to pay the household expenses?

3) Are you renting or do you own the home? If you own, is the house in your name or both names?

4) How were you treating your wife before all this happened?

5) Does your wife ever try to talk to you?

6) You said "she has made it that i can only get my kids through a third party."
How did she make it that way? Who is the third party? Can you have your Mom go pick them up anytime you want?

Now. No matter what the answer to those questions...

There is nothing in the world which could under any circumstances justify your brother's behaviour - even if you had been a criminal - even if you had been a terrible husband. Your brother is the devil right now. I don't think I speak too strongly. Don't let him tell you "You were a bad husband so I get to play house with your wife." That's garbage.

Remember the line from "Love must be tough"? "Precipitate a crisis." In other words : Make something happen which forces the infidels (your bro and your wife) to react. Don't let them drive the situation.

What if you stop paying the bills? What happens and how soon?

Oh, and no violence. It will get you nowhere.

-AD

Hi Jolivar,

I don't post very much. The double betrayal you are dealing with is arguably worse than your wife having an affair. At the moment your situation is really poisonous. Your wife and your brother are betraying you and you are not receiving any support from your parents. From reading your posts, it seems as if you are the only morally sound and sane person in this mix.

I know it is really difficult because there are children involved, however, I would protect my sanity and distance myself as much as possible from these people. Try to establish a real support network that actually cares for you. Given the callousness of your wife and brother's actions I have my doubts as to whether you will ever be able to have a civil relationship with either again, so try to focus on building yourself back up and putting yourself in a position where you will be able to offer some sanity to your children and perhaps eventually open your heart again to a new relaitonship.

This advise is obviously not in-line with MB principles but it is my 2 cents.

No contact with the wife and the kids till the 2/16... this new one is petitioning for that to pay for the bills... as far as owning im on the mortgage she is also on the deed... i was treating her civily we only spoke about the kids and finances.... and when she got mad i would tell her that i didnt want to argue and that i was hanging up.. i still want to R... im just getting tired of being kicked while im down.. or just as im trying to get up... as for trying to create a problem... they are creating it themeselves... and im just trying to be sane and watch... althought it hurts...

well PO got thrown out and the NC with her remains but my brother continues to live there with her.. i want this to stop the longer this goes on the farther i feel her going.. as for my kids i miss the ****** out of them and i know they do the same... i am feeling a bit better but who really won here the kids are still losing... they are being contfused by the site of their uncle living there vs thier father... i mean i try not to let it get to me but when i get to relax the thoughts just come back... and she told the judge that he was temporarily living there... and she bought it... i tell you that was a lie in itself... but i digress i need to get him out of my house... any hints... help.. im watching all of this unfold before me and i want to help but then i cant cause its not my place... im so confused... but i did get some of my confidence back...