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#1581875 02/06/06 06:51 AM
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Had a bad day Friday. Went to a meeting where the senior partner made it clear he isn't going to use me on a big client's work much longer.

[Additional material deleted]

I feel very lonely. Even daughter having a good time at her party could not improve my despondent mood. This stinks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


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Good Morning, Hold!
i feel for you. your post brought back memories of the last year when H (and I) went thru a tough time after he left his job and had to find a new one. there were many times when i know he felt lonely and doubted himself. i felt awful for him but there wasn't much i could do to help.
he would distance himself from me and then i would feel lonely too.
it took awhile.....he went on many interviews and got close to several jobs before finally landing a position he wanted.
it was very humbling.
lots of ups and downs. hang in there.

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Thanks Nelly.

For Mrs. Hold and I, this puts enormous pressure on our core difficulties. I am not meeting her need for FS. Which makes it even harder for her to meet my needs for SF, Affection and Admiration.

Whereas you were willing to do something to help your H, but there wasn't much that he wanted you to do. Neither Mrs. Hold nor I is willing to do what the other person wants. Hence the loneliness. On both sides.


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Thanks Nelly.

For Mrs. Hold and I, this puts enormous pressure on our core difficulties. I am not meeting her need for FS. Which makes it even harder for her to meet my needs for SF, Affection and Admiration.

Whereas you were willing to do something to help your H, but there wasn't much that he wanted you to do. Neither Mrs. Hold nor I is willing to do what the other person wants. Hence the loneliness. On both sides.

i know your issues are compounded and can imagine how difficult and lonely you must feel........i feel very bad for both of you.
comes down to WE have to figure out how to get through it w/o THEM. w/o needing them to help us through OUR lonliness....and vice versa......atleast untill somebody is willing to reach out.....and the other is willing to let them in.
i have been the one who is stuck lately....i am trying to make an effort but am having some difficulties.
I hope something breaks for you soon.

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She said "thanks for ruining my weekend".

Man, I hate when they do that.

I'm sorry you're off you game at work. I think we all occasionally miss the obvious or the thing we know we should have caught after someone else points it out, but I recognize that it's more than just one bad day for you. The difference is that you know you can do the work, you just don't want to. You do have the required education, skills, and experience. You know this stuff. You gotta make a living. Whether you really enjoy what you do is secondary. It's nice when you can do something you enjoy and get paid for it too, but paying the bills is always the first priority. If you think your job stinks, try unemployment.


I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure that you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
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The difference is that you know you can do the work, you just don't want to. You do have the required education, skills, and experience. You know this stuff.

I know no such thing.

Maybe it is my fear of making a mistake. My lack of self-esteem and self-confidence. Maybe I have indulged my dislike of the job too much. So I guess it is possible that I could do this work if I changed my attitude. But I do not take it as a given that I could.

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You gotta make a living. Whether you really enjoy what you do is secondary. It's nice when you can do something you enjoy and get paid for it too, but paying the bills is always the first priority. If you think your job stinks, try unemployment.

This I agree with.


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how about a job w/ the irs? prosecuting perhaps?


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Yes, I probably could get a job with the IRS. Would have to move to DC. Take a huge pay cut. And lord knows how we would afford a house given the housing prices there. The plus side would be more regular hours and better benefits. Maybe Mrs. Hold could get a job with the government as well.

Or maybe Mrs. Hold and the kids would stay here in our house and I'll take a small apartment in DC. I would miss the kids. But Mrs. Hold and I would probably be happier if we didn't have to see one another on a daily basis. Maybe only seeing each other on weekends would make it easier for us to tolerate each other.

Regardless, the island I am standing on is sinking. I need to walk across the hot coals to get to higher ground. Yes, it is going to be painful to walk across the coals. But the alternative is to drown.


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I wouldn't recommend you moving alone.

A fresh shart for ALL of you may be good. I would think goverment jobs may be good for both of you. Maybe the pay cut would be worth it in the long term considering the job security, benefits, pension and decreased stress?

I know housing costs are high, but couldn't you at least get a condo or townhouse in the area? Plus wouldn't the IRS have field offices, maybe in a more affordable area?

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I wouldn't recommend you moving alone.

Yes, I can see how your experience would argue against separation.

But I also know of people who have made such an arrangement work. And I am probably less worried about a negative impact on my marriage than you are. You still want your marriage to succeed. I have given up hope that mine ever will.

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A fresh shart for ALL of you may be good. I would think goverment jobs may be good for both of you. Maybe the pay cut would be worth it in the long term considering the job security, benefits, pension and decreased stress?

Could be. Something to look into.

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I know housing costs are high, but couldn't you at least get a condo or townhouse in the area? Plus wouldn't the IRS have field offices, maybe in a more affordable area?

My experience is more suited to the national office than the field offices. Beggars can't be choosers. But I doubt the IRS would find me a good fit for a field office.

And yes, of course we could get a smaller place. But I wouldn't want to move the family until I saw that a new position was going to work out long term.


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Why not check it out and apply. Surely the IRS has high power people outside of DC. And yes HOTI you are a high power person in tax law. I bet the IRS would happy to put you where you want to be.

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I will check it out. However, the IRS mostly has compliance functions outside DC. Return processing. Audits. Collections activity. I do not have the litigation or return preparation experience valued for those positions. Almost all of their "academic" functions (writing regulations, issuing rulings) are performed at the IRS National Office and the Treasury Department. So, yes, the IRS has several locations around the country. But as far as I know, they don't do the stuff I do at those other locations. But I will confirm whether I am correct.

On the other hand, who knows, maybe I would like doing audits. After all, part of this process is for me to expand my horizons and figure out what I might enjoy doing. Maybe I might enjoy using my knowledge of tax structuring to go after "fat cats" who hire people like me to help them avoid paying taxes.


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Wasn't there a fund-raising job you were looking at recently?

How is the debt coming along? You know, once you get the debt paid off, you may be able to make some different decisions about where to live and what to do. After all, if Mrs. Hold doesn't want to work, but you're not happy with your job (miserable more like it)--does she get to decide the income level you guys maintain?

Maybe taking a paycut and new position would force her to discover what new things she is willing to do for this marriage--even if leaving is one of them, it seems like change has got to happen somewhere.

Miserable job. Miserable marriage. No wonder you are h*llishly depressed.

I come back to this about once every three weeks, I think I wish you would check out your leave options and do some sort of day treatment program...


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Hold,

Housing costs are pretty high in the DC area. However, I'm sure they aren't any higher than where you are at present.

IRS headquarters are right across the street from the National Mall and the Smithsonian museums. Very nice place to work.

Probably wouldn't pay as much as you're used to, but the stress would be lower, and government benefits are unbeatable - I believe you get at least a month of leave and you get access to the federal employees pension plan (much better than social security). Plus, you have job security. It is very difficult to be fired from a federal job.

A change of scenery might be good for your family. Who knows?

If you end up down here, let me know, we'll do lunch.


Me: 41, INFP
Her: 46, ESFJ
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B-G Twins
4 yrs recovered from serious neglect on my part.
So happy together!
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Wasn't there a fund-raising job you were looking at recently?

Nice of you to remember. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I applied. I did not get invited to interview. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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How is the debt coming along? You know, once you get the debt paid off, you may be able to make some different decisions about where to live and what to do. After all, if Mrs. Hold doesn't want to work, but you're not happy with your job (miserable more like it)--does she get to decide the income level you guys maintain?

Over the past 2.5 years we paid down the credit card debt from $40,000 to $17,000. We pay about $500 per month (plus about $50 of interest). Plus we use about $2500 of our tax refund to pay down the debt. We also put $1,000 per month into a 401(k). And $400 per month into college savings for our kids. It will be about 2 more years until we pay off the credit cards entirely. But that only frees up $550 per month. Not enough to dramatically change our lifestyle or permit me to take a major pay cut.

To help our budget, I am going to stop seeing the doctor who is outside our insurance plan. It is just too expensive. About as much as when we were doing marriage counselling (which destroyed our budget for years with precious little to show for it). If I see a doctor in the network, then the cost should go way down.

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Maybe taking a paycut and new position would force her to discover what new things she is willing to do for this marriage--even if leaving is one of them, it seems like change has got to happen somewhere.

Yes, I do have the power to shake things up. I could take a pay cut and "let the chips fall where they may". If I choose NOT to do that, then I should make the best of my decision. I should not complain that nothing ever changes if I am unwilling to change anything. Good point.

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Miserable job. Miserable marriage. No wonder you are h*llishly depressed.

Exactly. That is why I no longer take anti-depressant meds. No point in trying to make the feelings go away when they are an appropriate reaction to my situation. I am never going to decide to change if I medicate the pain away.

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I come back to this about once every three weeks, I think I wish you would check out your leave options and do some sort of day treatment program...

I appreciate your suggestion. I am seriously considering this. But not until I get fired. Right now I am not entitled to paid leave. I don't have the guts to take unpaid leave, risk getting fired, and have to borrow to cover household expenses as well as the cost of treatment. I know it sounds crazy, but I will probably choose to get fired and be forced to take action "involuntarily" rather than take a stand and seek a "time out" voluntarily. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


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Housing costs are pretty high in the DC area. However, I'm sure they aren't any higher than where you are at present.

I think they are significantly higher. Now, if we lived closer to NYC (such as in Fairfield County, CT) then the prices would be just as high as in DC. But we live outside commuting range to NYC so the prices are much more "reasonable" than in DC.

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IRS headquarters are right across the street from the National Mall and the Smithsonian museums. Very nice place to work.

Probably wouldn't pay as much as you're used to, but the stress would be lower, and government benefits are unbeatable - I believe you get at least a month of leave and you get access to the federal employees pension plan (much better than social security). Plus, you have job security. It is very difficult to be fired from a federal job.

Yes, I have given that serious thought.

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A change of scenery might be good for your family. Who knows?

We have tried a change of scenery. In 1996 we moved from Miami to Chicago. I made partner at the law firm. I was unhappy with job and with Mrs. Hold.

In 2001 we moved to CT. I got a big raise to come here. I still was unhappy with the job and with Mrs. Hold.

So I don't think changing the scenery would help. Getting a government job rather than being in private practice might help. Divorcing Mrs. Hold might help (or it might be a disaster). But I don't think that merely moving 300 miles would solve the problems. We have moved longer distances and carried our problems with us. I doubt we would leave our problems behind with another move.

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If you end up down here, let me know, we'll do lunch.

Thank you. That is a nice offer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


When you can see it coming, duck!

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