I graduated from IC...
Go figure...and yes the poor pillow hates me now!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
JE

Haha. I knew you couldn't stay away. Glad you are back.

I know what you mean by the anger surprising you when you are generally a laid-back person. I did some completely crazy things while angry.

Believer,
You I have sooo missed!!!! I give you a great big hug if I could. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
FWH told me about your post....Now he is a cad....lol
He had me look it up, and I could not help but laugh, I almost peed my pant...He took it well. LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Nope I couldnt stay away, but I did deal with the trigger ON MY OWN!! That felt so, cant even describe it, so big girl like...awesome....freeing... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Thank you for being there....and being you.
I just wish I could help you as much as you have helped me. You are a wonderful woman. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Thank you!!

Your husband seems very nice, and very sorry. I don't blame you for being very angry. I could hardly believe it, and I've seen lots of strange things here.

Don't worry about me. I'm doing just fine. I stayed home from work today to treat myself for Valentine's Day. I didn't do anything, except catch up on things around the house, and it felt GOOD.

I know how that feels believer...
on the FWH..
I still dont get the A, but whatever...but it ticks me off about the renewing of vows...
That is the most hurtful thing of it all I think. My thinking on it with the trigger on friday, was screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me.
I was taking all the blame, seeing him in the pictures distant, uncaring. And dumb me, happy in love, googly eyed, smiling, in love.
And after the renewing of vows we went on a real honeymoon too. We were quite poor after our marriage, and I was 3 months pregnant, so we went camping for a weekend 15 minutes from the house. It rained and I left early with morning sickness and freezing. So the renewal we went to Foxwoods in Conn. and I so loved him. But within 3 days of returning from the honeymoon the first call about an A came in. He denied, blamed it on my job(DON in nursing home so I fired a few people) so I was soo in love I believed a foggy WH...DUH..
SO I was taking the blame but wanting to literally strangle him. I didnt know I had that in me. The A's bring out the worst in both spouses I guess.

I am glad you had a good Vday. I hope the very best for you in life, you deserve soo much more than the crap you got from you WH.

JE

Ooops. I'd told him I hoped you didn't spend a lot of money on the renewal thing, since it was meaningless, and I don't think he answered.

Well, just one more betrayal to get over. What are these guys thinking? Oh, that's right, they aren't.

I spent a whole lot. He spent nothing!! It cost me over 3 thousand!! Do I have something written on my forehead??
He is very good at not answering. He hears what he wants and loves attention. I was hoping he wouldnt do that here.
I do not read his posts, and would never post to him directly because I have seen some on here that go at each other, and I am not willing to do that. But, I sure was hoping that he would be answering you guys, and asking questions about him and working on his self esteem, guilt, etc.
I asked him a few questions today...
Do you know the difference between guilt and remorse? him NO
When you say you are sorry, are you? I think so
Are you asking questions on how to deal/heal? Yes...

His #1 EN is affection/admiration.
He is great at hugging me, snuggling, etc because it meets his needs. I get it but he doesnt.
My #1 EN has and will always be open and honest!!

I think he is in denial about somethings though. He feels that he was good with the kids and me during his A! Now, I just dont get that. I was here, I heard the "I love you but..." crap, etc and the kids took a big hit with his DJ's and angry outbursts too. So maybe he is still in the fog even though NC since supposively Nov. 04

But like I said in the my first post on this thread. I have laid my heart and soul out for him. Either he works on him, and the M with a 100% effort or I have had enough.
He knows I do not love him. He knows I have done all I can at this point. I do not trust him. My love bank is bankrupt and his is overfull to the bursting point. He loves me and I do know this. But that does not change a whole lot. I sound so cold and I dont mean to be. But, I have put 100% into the M for 9 months now, with not a whole lot given back. I want more out of a M. I just hope he steps up, heals/deals with himself, so that we can get on with R. We cannot fully R until he understands the hows, whys, etc so that I know he will never do it again.

And most guys think mostly with thier little heads, and there isnt any room for thier brains...
Not nice, I know I had to male bash a little..
sorry to all the guys that may read this....
JE

monica, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I am a FWW, so if you don't want to read what I have to say, I more than understand. Please know that I empathize with you.

Please read some of eldente's posts. He struggles with alcohol abuse and has been very honest about it. His posts are illuminating.

Your H needs to accept responsibility for his actions, but your drinking is not his action, it is yours, and thus your responsibility. The reason you are not getting "buzzed" is because you are developing a tolerance...your liver is getting better at processing alcohol. Alcohol is a depressant and will only increase your suicidal thoughts, as you discovered.

I'm sure that you have things to live for, dreams that you have, people that you love, and who love you. Take care.

If you are feeling suicidal

JustEmpty - Don't worry, he seems to be doing just fine. He probably didn't want to say how much the fake renewal of vows cost.

I keep forgetting to ask - do the two of you work opposite shifts?

JE,


I think that this describes many FWS/WSs.


That's very smart of you. My H and I fell into this trap at first and it was not pretty. Now, my H reads my posts and we talk about them. Occasionally he posts and he will call attention to posts that resonate with him. For us, it's about learning to communicate better. That will be the key to our R.


As I've said before, any BS willing to give a FWS a second chance deserves my respect. I owe so much to my H for staying with me through this horrible mess that I created and tried to sweep under the carpet.

Having been betrayed, you need to have your Love Bank rebuilt. You need your H to be totally honest with you about his A. And you don't sound cold to me, you sound betrayed and honest. What can your FWH do for you? What are the things he could do that would make deposits in your LB? Because it's not just about him, his self-esteem and his guilt, his remorse or lack therof. It's about him making deposits and amends with the goal of having you fall in love with him again. (This was from a counselling session my H had w/S. Harley). I found it helpful to think of our R in terms of the things I can do *for* my H, instead of feeling powerless and inept as well as adulterous.


That's my H's first need as well. Didn't meet that need too well for a long time, did I? So I do now, even if I am afraid it will hurt him in the short term (which it did, and still does, of course).


FWP can be good at denial, unfortunately. I wish you both the best in your R.

I did the ring thing too. This may have been my most effective response to the question of infidelity.
I was married he was not.

Believer,
We never did. But now, about a month ago he and I repeat he made a decision to move to second shift. We do not see much of each other anymore. I have told him that we did not and do not POJA. He agrees, but the sorrys come. I understand the need for them, but they do not seem to be sincere in the least lately. The changing of shifts really upset and continues to upset me. It was very selfish on his part and he just told me he was going to do it. Then after moving to the second shift, he told me he HAD to go away to school, and I HAD to pick which one. I was furious to say the least, and I refuse to do so. He was unwilling to POJA the shift change, and the schooling which requires him to go out of state for at least 3 weeks. NOT happening right now.
Maybe later, but now is not the time. He told me also that if second shift did not work out, he could go back. I asked him after 1 week to go back. In my opinion, he dragged his feet and finally after over a month, told them. Amazingly they gave his day job away the day before!! So that is where we stand.


Penalty,
I have been telling him this. He does not meet any of my top 3 needs. Twice in the past 2 months, then will immediately withdraw them with something else. Example above with his job. In addition, I have set a boundary of no internet unless on MB, and no ebay. Well since dday he has lied, fabricated, told half truths. He told me he could not get on internet at work. Then I find out he is often. I asked why and how? He said, well that was for a short time, but can get on now. Then I asked him to cancel his email and use mine to be transparent. So he tells me he did. Then I find out he is still using his email and mine. Also, just 2 days ago was on ebay again...at least the 10th time since dday and boundaries, and during a huge trigger of mine...and he gives excuse of ..my friend needed me to ask question because he doesnt have ebay acct., and he told me about his cell phone, then when on ebay and bought one!

The boundaries keep getting crossed and I have no clue how to make them stick. I cannot make him and cannot change him.

To deposit in my love bank, I need honesty and openess. I need him to do household stuff and spend time with the kids. None of the latter 2 can be done on second shift and he sugar coats and gives half truths about everything.

He tells me he is afraid of me and women in general. I do not understand it, but I have maybe LB'd him by saying to him, you betrayed me, cheated, lied...what else could you do to know that I am not going to bite your head off. He fears losing me, but in doing as he is, he is losing me steadily anyway.

Many have asked about MC....
I personally have been there done that. I will give the short version here...
We went in beginning of A. I of course did not know about the A. But had asked him when I got the, "I love you, but"
This MC attacked me. I was to blame for his lack of love because I was asking this. The MC discussed WH issues from his childhood, all the while chastizing me. Like I was not trusting him and believing him because of my childhood abuse. SO problem with M was me and my past.
Now 2 years later I find out that he in fact was cheating. I sought out help and got slapped.
However we both after dday went to IC. I graduated with honors. He just stopped. My IC told me that with what I describe, I am right on track. I have and had made many changes prior to dday, did plan A back then and did not know what it was. I dealt with my abuse that triggered after dday, in a healthy way. I feel great about myself. I love me and who I have become. I will always, no matter what deal like an abuse survivor, and that is how I deal. It works and works well. She actually commented on how much crap I have dealt with and how truly functional I am.

I would love to share the rest of my life with my FWH. I know he has it in him somewhere. I know he is in pain, and trys. I tell him when he does well. I really do. I just dont think he has gotten it yet, or if he ever will.
The Harleys do say if the love bank is bankrupt it can come back and I am holding onto that hope. That is all I have to hold on for the M.

Hopefully here he will get to some points, get great advice, and the big part....make the changes. He has read all the books, but does not follow them. Maybe hearing from people here will help.

Hope this helps a little. And penalty, I admire FWS also. You show such courage coming on here, working through this, and moving on. You are a special group here too. It takes all of us to make this place so great.

Thank you all

The second shift thing is completely CRAZY! What is he thinking? People who work opposite shifts tend to end up divorced - and that is in a marriage that has not been throttled by infidelity.

Believer,
I wish he had asked me, talked to me, POJA'd it. But, alas I was not included. Well I cant say that, He did mention it, I told him that I didnt not want him to do that. He "chose" to do it anyway. Now I get, "I like the shift, I get to sleep in late" "I have always liked 3-11". Which I respond to him, that it is not working. He sleeps till 10-11 am, gets up, eats breakfast, picks up after the dogs, packs his lunch, eats a sandwich and leaves at 1:15-1:30 for work, gets home at midnight, then to bed.
He is off on Wed and Thurs, I am off Mon and Tues. So I see him about 2 hours on Mon. &tues, then from 5-9 on wed and thurs. THat is it. Total of 12 hours per week and the kids are here in evenings..so really only 4 hours per week together.
In the Harley book it says 15 hours for a good marriage...well we are not even close.
But know he says he cannot go back to days, he works for the post office, so who knows.

I have issues with his job anyway. He met and slept with her always from work. Never any other time. They met on his lunch breaks, or he would say he had to work overtime. His coworkers saw this and looked the other way. IF the OW friend and OW did not call I would have never known.
I asked him to quit his job, because that is where they met, and when he was trying to go NC, she kept going there to talk to him. He said he would, then refused and still works there. I know it is a good job, and was hard to get but it is even worse on this shift. No way to check on him, with 4 kids going here there and everywhere each evening. At least on days I could go by, we could have lunch together, etc.
Oh well. I just thought I would keep rambling today. I have diarrhea of the mouth. At least it is here and not LBing him, right. Sorry guys...

I suggest more counseling. For someone that wants to save his marriage, he is not making good choices. Maybe if he hears it from a marriage counselor. People who work different shifts, even in the BEST marriages, have problems.

Thank you Believer.
I have said this. But the big problem...
He sugar coats everything. I do not know what went on with his IC last time, went to 4 sessions total and said the counselor said he was ok???
If you go and dont tell and ask and work on things, then they cant help you. I think (I could be wrong) but that is what happened. All he ever talked about was his past..meaning that his parents divorced when he was 14, dad was an alcoholic, and cheating on his mom. His dad wasnt home much, but was a good dad when he was home. He had a great relationship with him after he left his moms home. He keeps going over this, but not the M or his low self esteem, serial cheating, denial, depression, etc.
So how does an IC help if you dont bring it up, or push it under the rug?
These are my thoughts, he wont tell me what exactly happened at IC. I went to 5 sessions, he went to 4. That is all there. I am really reluctant for MC because of the mindF that I got from the last one. It truly has me scared and I felt that it didnt help in fact it hindered our recovery for 2 years.
JE

Well, there is a forum here about finding a good marriage counselor. There are lots of bad ones.

I did ask your husband about working that shift on his thread. Waiting for an answer.

I will look into it. Thanks again...I just have cold feet. I have been seriously thinking about the Harleys, but I just started physical therapy, and 4 in braces really puts a hinder on the money, plus I dropped hours to spend time with FWH a few months ago. I guess I could go back up to full time since his days off are different now..
I will look into it.
JE

Well, the Harleys will tell you to spend 15 hours a week doing enjoyable things together. Start there. If there is no time, then you will have to change things so that there is.

Also read the POJA stuff here. Following THAT prevents a lot of problems.