Believer- I am doing exactly that and in the process he is maybe not happy with it. I am happy with who I am, I have become a better friend and share everything with him, and have greatly improved the shaky relationships that I let slide for 2 long with the kids too. I have apologized to them all and feel that I am owning up to my shortcomings and getting them changed into positive things.
JL- Yes I am quitting my job for many reasons but one of the biggest ones is that a few months ago he changed shifts without my consent. Now he works 3-11 and I work days. We only get to spend time together on his 2 evenings off, and one of them is spent with the kids. So in order to work on the 15 hours a week I felt it necessary to quit. I have already went from 40 hours a week down to 20 a week to be with him, but there still is only about 6 hours spent together alone each week.
As for the intimacy part, yes he has issues for sure. He tells me he wants me to be more independant then I kinda get blindsided by doing so. But I only do these things for me and the kids while he is at work. When he is home, it is a family unit or him and I. I was looking into his eyes the other morning getting ready to tell him that I love him and want this marriage to work, and he looks at me almost angry and says sarcastically "What?!" It bothered me alot, but that is my perspective. I went downstairs and soothed myself with a nice bubble bath, then went to talk to him. It worked out ok, but he told me he has a problem with me looking him in the eyes. He also has a big problem with me being weak and not happy and chipper. When I have a bad day he has a bad day. But I no longer do that too, I own my feelings and he owns his.
He is not happy with the website, it is mostly BS and FWWs, and according to him the As are different. He cannot even look at himself sometimes, has not forgiven himself, and does not like himself. He has told me that in much duress. I have told him that I forgive him, I think can be a great man and person, I have seen glimses of it, he just has to strive for it. But I cannot make him do it, no one can but him. He does not take critism well I guess. Heck he is killing himself by doing that to himself all the time. I see him hurting, I see him in pain, and want so much to help him but he pushes me away by not answering, sugarcoating, lying, or just trying to do what he thinks I want or manipulating. In the past I was party to this, I see it and understand it and will not fall victim anymore. I own my feelings and responses to things, but I cannot own his.
I guess that is why I ask about a timeline, or time frame to see the light at times. I get discouraged that he doesnt really want this to work. He says the words, but the actions just are not there alot of the times. He has made some changes and I tell him that I see them and like them. Little things do go a long way. But the big things need to be worked on too.
MY biggest problem if no one could tell is patience, I lack severely there...LOL. I am trying to learn to be still. It is hard though when I know I went through heck to heal and deal lately but feel great for it, and I want him to feel this way. I wish everyone did.
JE

it is the same with any addiction...the addict has to want to get help and get better and heal. unfortunately he doesnt right now...he just wants to wake up and have it all be gone. he doesnt want to look at you and see your pain, he doesnt want to talk, he may have to own up to what he's really done and face it. i also believe he has still not let go of the fantasy....how do i get all this from your posts????? i could have wrote them. this was my hubby also....the only thing that worked for me was i asked him to leave and went total plan b on his a$$. scared the crap outta him and woke him up. took me years...almost three to get there though....the additional damage to my emotional well being cannot be calculated! i should have done it sooner....but i wasnt ready....i took too long.

the first and foremost condition for return was 6 weeks of counseling with harley...then i would think about it....

If he's feeling guilty...he SHOULD. Let him go through this thing. I know it's hard. At least you aren't trying to cope with vodka. I must say, I'm a little buzzed right now. I wish I could leave this stuff alone. I always think it's gonna help..but it only makes me more upset.
Anyway, if he's feeling some responsibility for this thing,I would let him experience the guilt. It will bring him back to where he was before. When he felt awful if he hurt you. After OW came along, he lost that. If he's actually feeling bad for what he's done, he's on the right track. Right?
Remember. We wont be handing our husbands over to these skanks, right? WE took vows to be here, right? THE OW HAS NOT. SCREW HER! It really seems to me that he's trying to work through his mistakes. Please tell him for me that MB is the best place for him, if he's interested in restoring his marriage. HE cheated, so if he's tired of "facing the music", he should also expect that his family has been preparing for that. He needs to understand that THIS IS HIS FAULT!! You may have neglected certain needs, but SO DID HE!!
If he's hurting over the predicament he's in, well, we all know the line "you made your bed..." Right?
You're not empty. You have more insight than many of the people here.
Love you.
Monica

Thank you Nikko and Monica.
He still is not on the boards as you can see. Just living day to day. I will not push the issue with him, I would like to counsel with the Harleys. I will know more about finances in a few weeks.
Nikko your H and mine might be twins...LOL, mine has said exactly what you said about waking up getting it and it being all better, wants a quick fix pill without doing the work. I told him if they made the pill, I would be the first to get one. Cause I would love to wake up and not live with this pain and hurt from the A that I did not have a choice in.
I saw him yesterday for about 30 minutes, kissed him goodbye this am, and will see him for a few hours tomorrow. This is what it is like with him on 3-11. I am working more hours to afford the medical co pays and to tuck some aside for C with the Harleys. How much should I plan on?? How many sessions is average?
Monica- you have got to at some point face your pain without the vodka. It will wait or it will hit you full force when you are sober for one day. But believe me, it will hit you and hit you hard because you are not healing when you are drinking. You need to start healing, you need to do a 12 step program, you really do. I have been there and know what happens when you crash hard core. Please think about this and begin healing. Love ya...
JE
JE

just so you know----my hubby's job is from 8 am to around 10 pm....if im lucky! lol this is normal. he runs an auto dealership so i live with what you are describing to a T. also the resentment "we" had a life without him! well duh...of course we do---your not here!!! kids still haver activities and sports and i worked then also. he distanced himself from us....not us from him.....he didnt realize it at the time though. he does now....it is as much his responsibility to call and be connected to us as it is for us to do the same for him.

find a way to do the counseling....work if you have to...but it should be mandatory. my hubby learned more in two or three sessions with steve than he did with years of anyone else. steve goes at it with a total plan from the first call. he doesnt waste time....best money i ever spent.

i am still praying for you both...i pray to god he wakes up in time.....and i pray that when he does you still have something left for him.....

Nikko a few more questions. I see the cost is 185 per session, about how many is normal? 4 or 10, that can make a huge difference right now. I can swing 4 in about 2 weeks, but not 10.
He does not want to do counseling. Is MB counseling for just me OK or does he have to do it? I cannot force him. I do not want to push the subject and be accused of DJ or what ever either. I mean I am so much better now with me, its the M that is lacking. I have done IC and graduated..LOL with return if ever you need to.
I am willing to do it alone, but how do you do it alone in a M?? After plan Aing last year, I didnt realized I would have to keep doing it alone to tell you the truth.
Ok I think that is it for now. Thanks.
JE

je---i couldnt even begin to give you any insight to how many---tell yourself 4 for now and figure it out as you go. get in whatever you can. but....counseling alone only prepared me for----plan b. your hubby has to want to do this and recovery...he doesnt. so...you sit in limbo. so did i....how long are you willing to waste? your hubby doesnt realize he is losing you slowly eveyday....and the resentment if you wait is horrible. you realize not only did they do this (affair) for however long...but then when i was hemmorraging..they sat and watched me bleed....
it wasnt pretty when resentment hit around here.lol

i think for me it came down to a personal boundry....he can call it whatever he wants.(LB< DJ< ETC>>) but it comes down to him not wanting to do something because it is uncomfortable for him.....doesnt care how uncomfortable it all is for you. isnt willing to face what he needs to do...because quite frankly, why should he....what are his consequences if he doesnt?

why is he so afraid of counseling??? oh and just so you know...steve doesnt go into pasts, well he didnt for us...it was all about the here and now of today, the affair and what are you doing tomorrow to make each other fall in love again.

now with past abuse, i dont know if he goes into any of it...we could ask someone? but what is hubby's fear....and yours?

Well stayed up till 3 am this morning chatting. I did ask FWH one more time about MC and it is still a solid no. I asked him if he wanted to do IC or FC and it is also a no.
I also screwed up by asking about the A. I have been going back and forth about calling MOWs husband about the A. He has never been told, nor her family, nor her work, or anthing like that. The A was supposively over when I found out, so I figured that exposing was not necessary, but lets just say that there is a medical reason why if she is having sex with her husband still then he needs to know. I know if FWH reads this post he will be ticked at me so no details.
When I asked about the A, I asked about MOWs kids, she has 3, and now I know that FWH met 2 of them. FWH told me the A was in a car, or in MOWs daughters apt. when daughter was not there, nothing more. Just chatting in the car, or "quickies" in apt or in her office at work. I was surprised and asked for more detail with meeting kids. Mind you MOW knew who I was, called to confess her love of my H and tell me that she could be a better wife and mother. That hurt the deepest I think. She knows all about me, and I know literally nothing about her. FWH kept saying I dont know about everything. I asked what they talked about, what needs she was meeting, etc.
I was upset that he never gives me any answers. I then asked about the other night and how he told me he was fluctuating between R and D. He tells me that he was being honest and telling me how he feels. I said, do you know why you fluctuate back and forth? Is there something I am not meeting for you? Am I LBing or DJing or anything like that? He answers no, and he doesnt know why. Tells me he deals by sweeping things under the rug, and pulling them out once and a while to deal with them. I asked what he has been dealing with since last post here..."nothing". I asked if he has been thinking of a plan for R, "no".
Yes I feel this is limbo. He did say it was ok for me to go to MC alone. Is this even possible. I know many do it when there spouses are still active in the A to work on plan A or Plan B, but what about R? Doesnt it take 2 people to R? So if that is true, what exactly are FWH and I in??
I did apologize for asking questions and ended up with forget it, I dont care. Not nice, an LB and then apologized for that. I am just getting angry, frustrated, tired, and disappointed. Stinks sometimes. Patience is a virtue I dont think I have much left of LOL
JE

BTW forgot a big trigger here. I was searching for MOWs numbers and ran acrossed a picture of her...huge trigger and instead of withdrawing I got angry. Not a good way to start a chat, I know this was wrong. I was hurting, and angry and should have kept my big mouth shut. I feel terrible that I asked about the A. But I need some form of closure, how do I get that without FWHs true and full confession? Do I need it for closure? I know her name, and where they had meetings, nothing more?
JE

i cant answer right now---banging headache...had to let you know i read it and do have something to say....lol.like i never have anything to say...lol plus...we dropped to page three!!!

ok---first thing....get the information to mowh. i can tell you from my experience it will be a regret i take to my grave. i never contacted him. because of my breakdown and the amount of time that past till i got well....i never contacted him. i still regret it....probably always will. you obviously have different reasons for telling him....much more important ones....

ok---the fluctuation..here's my take. he goes back and forth because sweeping it under isnt working and he isnt willing to do something different and he cant imagine living like this forever so running is easier.....hit him right between the eyes with that one and i bet he will drop his mouth to the floor cause you nailed it sooooo well!! no easy answers on this one i am afraid. believe me i tried it all and then some...lol. finally had to decide it wasnt good enough for me and i was done. i deserved so much more....after everything i survived....this is what i ended up with??? i dont think so.....lol. when i had the breakdown hubby didnt get me any help....he kinda liked that i wasnt combative and a typical * personality. i was quiet, withdrawn, sullen and barely running on autopilot. in other words i wasnt making waves. so with no intervention or drugs i healed myself...or began to. it has been almost 4 yrs and i am almost comfortable with me again. i will never be who i was....that took a long time to realize and accept....but i really like who i am today!

my hubby is still useless when i trigger. we are gonna work on that very soon....right now my plate is too full...but it is on the horizon.lol

JE--this is not recovery. im sorry. i was told that for so long and i never got it...he was here...we were together...he choose us...how could this not be recovery??? cause he was still doing the things that hurt me the most! he wasnt actively working on healing us.

limboland sucks....i lived there for years.

There is NO fluctuating between R & D. That's 2 opposite sides of the world.

So your Ws is still babbling, right through his ....... and probably a few other places. Sad sight indeed.

Imagine going about your business or shopping, etc.....then to see a WS in full bloom. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I saw an A going on at lunch one day at McDonald's.....now if these 2 weren't having an A, they musta' been very newly wed.....well they weren't wed so they were having an A, I nearly puked my lunch but said enough out loud to make them feel uncomfortable......and I have NO regrets. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

I am processing this info right now. I am not backing away or ignoring the posts.
So I am in limbo until when?
How do I get out of limbo?
Yes he babbles, but has not seen or talked to OW since Nov. of 2004 according to him, he does lie to me, he does not like me to invade his privacy or bring up the A. What is this telling me that I am too deaf to hear?
I think he is sincere in not seeing or chatting with OW. I think he is to darn stubborn, doesnt want to hurt me with the truth, is undecided at times if this is all worth it, and cannot forgive himself even though I have forgiven him.
Like I said I am trying to process this info. These are my thoughts.
JE

proccess away---take all the time ya need. lol we're here....

From Penalty Kill

Oh, JE, I have been following your thread, and thinking of you and your H. Stuck in limbo? Sometimes my H and I feel that way too.


Oh, you're not deaf. He *must* open up his life to you, I wish I could make him see that. He *must* be completely honest with you - and I think that you are giving him the safety he needs to do so, which is essential, but he doesn't see it. Honesty can be freeing, but he has to take that first step and it is scary.


This is very good! He must absolutely continue this.


Yep, all rolled up into one tangled knot....you have just described a WS/FWS. In addition to worrying about hurting you, he also thinks that he may hurt *himself* further by admitting the truth. Oh, we FWS can be so selfish, we can be so good at denial, as if by not speaking of it, what we did does not exist. But until you have the truth, to YOUR satisfaction, it's going to be tough to move forward, and I wish that I could make him see that. And it's really tough for a FWS to forgive him/herself. I know this!

Take care, JE. I'm wishing you both well.

bringin you up too^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks nikko.
Way to many things with kids lately, and working full time for a few weeks, and medical stuff too.
I need a pause button.LOL
JE

well when ya find that button, and are done with it of course......send it my way!!!LOL

Sure will if I ever find the darn thingy...LOL
and when you find the magic wand to FIX it all and are finished with it...you can send it my way...
JE

Well daughter 15 waiting for me to take her to the bank...so as the mom I MUST obey!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />Talk about selfish...geez LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
JE