Gosh, I don't know how I can answer that. I think I did start taking things for granted. But at the same time, I don't know for sure - it depends how you look at it. I did alot for us/our relationship too. Everyone's situation is different. I admit that I began to take our relationship for granted and just thought nothing would EVER come between us so I felt secure in that aspect. And I suppose I felt TOO secure b/c it turns out that something did come between us. I don't think I was giving (emotionally) what he needed to feel appreciated. (This wasn't done purposely, but subconciously) I mean, I always spoke in words and cards/gifts, how much I appreciated him, but there are alot of times that, based on my ACTIONS,(Meaning how I reacted to certain things, my impatience, my subconcious selfishness, expectations) he felt I didn't appreciate him. It's so hard to explain. I apologize if that didn't make much sense. Feel free to ask me anything, really!

We can BEAT ourselves up trying to figure out what we did/didn't do that caused what happened. I am beating myself up on a daily basis here. Bottom line is, our spouses each made that choice to cross that sacred line. We are here now, so we don't have a choice but to move forward. It is not going to be easy, but it will get easier with time. And we can't go on reliving every moment, trying to figure out what went wrong. It's so hard to accept the reality of everything but as I have said before, reality always smacks me in the face when my husband keeps behaving the way he is. Like a foreign being, like a rude, callous individual. He is making this choice, not me. He knows where my heart is. He is choosing to believe what he wants (that he now thinks he just wasn't good enough for me) and is doing what he wants. He tells me he is in search of happiness. I have no control over it his decision anymore. I wish I could make him see the mistake he is going to make, but I can't. He has to make the mistake on his own. Will it be too late once he realizes? I don't know. Only time will tell. That also depends if I still have "those loving feelings" within me. He could eventually get them back, but they could be gone for me. I know how I am and once I get into my new life, there will be no stopping me. I made it once before, I can do it again. The tricky part now is that I have two kids & my husband will always be a part of my life b/c of that. I have no idea how all of this will play out. No idea. I thought I knew this man, but I don't know who he is now - so speculation based on someone you do not know is very difficult!

Anyhow, Happy Valentines Day to you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<< We can BEAT ourselves up trying to figure out what we did/didn't do that caused what happened. I am beating myself up on a daily basis here. Bottom line is, our spouses each made that choice to cross that sacred line. We are here now, so we don't have a choice but to move forward. It is not going to be easy, but it will get easier with time.>>

So many different things we have to keep preaching to our own selves all the time, huh. Some days it dont feel like its getting easier but worse I think.

Hi T41 - so hows ur V day going so far. If SB night was lonely...........what about tonight! Lol, but funny not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Do you have anything planned to cheer yourself up - at least you have a dog I see. I came home directly from work.......it would have just been too much fun to go anywhere, everywhere, see all the couples, flowers, teddy bears etc that I ain't getting. Lol again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

You were married before? Mind saying what happened there? Its ok if you dont care to, Im just curious.

Hi Go,

Yeah, I got a dog to cheer me up. He's always so happy when I get home from work, and that feels good. More good news, my STBX step son (14) is going to come visit me next Monday. I can't wait. We always have a good time playing basketball or video games. He always wins, but that's the fun of it. I'll do some boasting, making a trivial wager, and then he will win. I love it.

My first marriage. It was pretty much the same thing without the A. I was very good to my first wife, but she was just too independent to be married (her words). After about 4 years, she just came home from work and said that she wanted a divorce. There was no discussing the matter, it was just over. She told me that she would never remarry after being married to me, wanted to keep my last name, and still wears her wedding ring. It's been 12 years ago, and she still hasn't remarried. We have a son together so I still see her pretty often. She told me recently that she made a huge mistake when she left me, that she was stupid for just throwing it away, but it's too late now. It is too late, as I just don't have those feelings for her anymore. I am scared that my STBXWW will say the same thing someday, that she threw away something good (she's admitted that she feels that she will regret this), and it's going to be too late. I hate that thought, but I can't get her to understand this. Fog, I guess.

Tired

Yeah, I bet its great to have 'someone' happy that you're back home every day. Great too that you have both a SS and S - you're not as alone as you may sometimes feel. Me - no dog, no kid. Since I moved out I've actually been rooming with others because Im too chicken to be completely alone. Silly, huh.

Wow - that first D must have hit hard. Sorry that you have to go through that again plus have a bonus A situation.

We are sort of opposites though. You are a BS that wish/es/ed to still keep your M with your WS not wanting to. I decided to D a WS that was willing. Do you think I am unforgiving?

<<I am scared that my STBXWW will say the same thing someday, that she threw away something good, and it's going to be too late. I hate that thought, but I can't get her to understand this.>>
My X feels this way about me even though he was the WS. Funny enough, he still maintains that 'we' could work and that he never want/ed a D, but he has had no probs maintaning NC and BTW already has a gf. Hes stated it as fact that I could never get someone to treat me the way he did and spoken for me also that I could never love someone else. And thats the basis for his 'worry' about me regretting this and crawling back to him months or so after when I come to my senses but hes finally 'serious' with his gf and 'ready to be a father'. Tell me what you think of those sensitive remarks! The sum of it being hes willing but Im not and when I will be he will not.........blah blah, whatever.

You're right GO, I do have a S, SS and a dog. It could be a lot worse. I don't blame you for rooming with someone else. I wish I had a roommate now.

The first D did hit pretty hard. My son was 4yo when that hit. It was weird, because there was no indecision on her part whatsoever. It was brutal, but a clean cut with no lies.

I think that each person has to decide what they are willing to forgive or not forgive. I'm and optimist, and see the good future that we had together, things we had always talked and dreamed about, and the good life we had up to last May. The WW (alien) is not my wife, and I don't know who she is. I don't want her back, just the wife that I knew for so long.

When I said that I was scared that WW would decide that she made a mistake, there was no vanity in that at all. She is a very attractive lady and will have no problem finding men, even when this current OM is gone. He's just a silly kid, living with his folks, and he won't last too long with her. I just meant that even though she can find someone better looking, or wealthier, she may not find someone who will love her and her son as much as I do.

I can't believe that your XH said those things to you. He must think pretty highly of himself. There has to be a reason to say something so stupid to someone, I just can't figure out what it is.

Tired41

I think my name on this site should be TIRED too... all of this just wears you out. Yes to want to work on a marriage when the other person really doesn't. Or just says they will. Then it's down the same road again. It's called insanity when you do the same thing over and over again, getting the same results. A "normal" person would want to change life's patterns, I'm my husband's third wife, he's never done a thing wrong in my marriage, now I'm the one he blames it all on. Should have seen that writing on the wall before I married him.

There's so much hurt in this world, so many hurting people. Dreams cut short, hearts shredded. Guess it's a part of living, you can't live unless you hurt at times. Lately I've just come to the conclusion that most people are too selfish for marriage, perhaps even including myself. Biblically it was to be about giving to the other person, meeting someone else's needs first (Harley too), yet I made some mistakes but not nearly compared to the ultimately selfish man I married... it doesn't seem that people care who they hurt, even if there are consequences they blame others during that period of hurt - it's all such a shame.

Strange Valentine's Day, my husband that I've been separated from a year due to insanity left a message like nothing has happened. It's called denial, never sorry, never will work on anything, just his usual head in the sand thinking I"ll return to him when my pms year is done as he calls it. Then I'll be the Teddy Bear that he drags around, a stuffed animal without feelings... I'm tainted and tired. Maybe that'll be my new marriagebuilders name since Tired is taken TIREDANDTAINTED...

I personally like horsey better that t&t. You said that you should have seen this before you married him. That's not easy to do. My STBXW changed so much when the aliens came. It was a complete 180. She was not even close to the same person, a person I had known about 8 years. I don't think she could fake it for 8 years, so there must be something to this alien stuff.

You're right about the selfishness. I think that's it in a nutshell. All the posturing and rationalizations are simply fog to cover the selfishness. What I could never get my WW to see is the joy of giving. It makes me feel great to give to others, but she was only a taker. My first XW told me recently that "It's a terrible thing to hurt someone who loves you, because they will get over it, but you never will". That is how she still feels after she walked out on me 12 years ago. Maybe the A and selfishness have them fogged out right now, but they will someday realize what they tossed away.

Yes I think my husband was the ultimate taker too. After the "alien" it all got worse, I actually called my little boy an alien while I was preg. He selfishness came out 10 times more and my giving came out more, at least to my little one. My husband will never see the joy of giving and supporting anyone, not even his own child. I look at him and find him quite pathetic actually, what a chicken you know what way to go through life...

Good Morning Horsey, Thankful & Cis,

How is everyone doing this morning?

Tired

Hi!
Last night was interesting. My dear friends - I call them my "friends of the marriage" since they are really the only couple who know both me and my H - asked me to dinner last night.

The wife, at the last minute, called my H and invited him also. He came (I was relived he didn't have plans on V Day). Dinner was nice, conversation was fun...but H maintained distance.

I got hurt only a little when he talked about his future and it so clearly didn't include me...

Anyway, it was a sweet gesture on my friends part. They still hope (like me), that H and I can repair our marriage. But nothing like that can happen until we both decide we want to do that...

Meanwhile, H is starting look for apartments in the city. I know it's silly, but I feel like he can't do it, that he'll get overwhelmed, not like the city since I'm not running interference...I want to protect him and take care of him. He works so hard.

Oh well, I guess I have to not intrude.

Have a good day, life is beautiful - but it takes some work!
Cis

Cis, it's good to have friends that support you through this. It's probably also a good sign that he came to dinner knowing that you were there. My STBXW wouldn't do that for anything. It could be that now you've opened the gate to his freedom, he will find that the grass is not greener. I so hope that is the case, and he comes back asking you to forgive him and to rebuild your M.

It is very sweet of you wanting to protect and take care of him. I keep imagining how great life would be if both spouses felt that way about each other.

Tired

Thanks Tired, I love your positive outlook. But he remains distant...he wants it both. He wants to be my friend, share my family, but he wants to be rid of me. I guess I'm allowing it since I can't seem to let him go. I tried to plan B him, now I'm plan Aing...but nothing seems to make a wit bit of difference.

The truth is..we probably aren't right for each other. I need to face that, and move on..but I'm just not ready. I don't want to be one of those people who are hung up on their x spouse for the rest of their lives.

I wish I was 20 years younger,,,maybe it would help me feel more eager to take on the future, and find a new companion.

Sometimes I feel the same way, especially about needing to move on and not stay attached to the XS forever. Maybe if we tried to not think about it, not think about healing, not think about moving on, and just tried to find something to be happy about for just a little while each day, we could improve. It could be that we are watching the kettle constantly waiting for it to boil, and it seems to take forever.

I'm just going to try and be happy today and not worry about getting better or anything. It's got to be better than sitting here thinking about how badly I need to let go.

Tired

My H also wants to be my "friend", I guess. He keeps saying "Im not asking you to be my friend". So what is he asking? Every evening he tells me that he missed me during the day. I just don't get it. I'm really not that much of a violent person (do have a bad temper though, but not violent) but I just want to choke him. Or maybe it's me that I want to choke. Do you think it will be easier for me when I move out? Or harder?

I think it will be much easier when you move out. You will be removed from all the tension.

I will warn you about some things that I've felt after WW moved out. I now tend to look at the good things in our marriage more and forget about the bad, and I do miss her terribly. I do get lonely and come here to vent and to just talk to people. It does feel good though to be able to start re-establishing your life. For example, my WW always handled our finances, paid all the bills, and I seldom knew anything about it. After she bailed, I had to try to figure all that out, and I had full control over my pay check, etc. I redecorated our house, even though it's on the market, the way that I wanted it. Just little simple things that seem insignificant can mean a lot when you are rebuilding your life.

I don't understand the friend thing either. My WW wants to be friends. I want to tell her "You tore my heart out, stabbed it repeatedly, lied to me, took away the woman I love more than anything in the world, took away my family, and now you want to be my buddy?" It must be something to ease the guilt. Everything has always been about the WS, why would it change now.

Tired41

I've received some good advice that I am trying to follow... Try to focus on yourself, focus on the present and your kids (if you have them) - try not to think about the future, stick to only factual things and stay away from the troublesome thoughts, i.e. the drama that we create in our minds based on assumptions, not facts. One can get so carried away with those thoughts which therefore leads to feeling upset, down and negative about stuff that we don't even know if it's true! I know it's easier said than done, but it really does help put things in perspective and keep you from being down all the time. ((HUGS))

Thanks Thankful, I'll try to do the same. Our imaginations are often much worse than the truth.