ote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unlike you, though, I am not angry at OW, because I don't feel that she betrayed me.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I don't really know my FWH's OW either--not personally. I know who she is because I had seen her before, but we have never spoken.

But I do feel like she betrayed me--and mothers everywhere! Is that wierd?

Maybe it's because she KNEW that I had just had a baby when she started chasing after my H--sending him lewd text messages, etc. She is a mother, too (two young children ages 7 and 4) and had to know that my H's EN's were on the back burner--as were my own needs for that matter--while I dealt with the constant needs of a brand new baby. For her to try and take my H away from his two little children--and abandon her own kids in the process--sigh. I do feel anger for her, and for all women like her.

At some point, I know that I will need to forgive her, too. Hate is a heavy load to carry around, and I don't want to be the kind of person who becomes consummed with bitterness and anger. But I just can't seem to let go of this yet.

Be strong, and good luck. I always enjoy your posts--and your wisdom.

-CSJ.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hi CSJ,

Good to hear from you again...I understand what you mean about OW betraying you and mothers everywhere, espec. if she has 2 young children herself...I see that your H's PA lasted almost a year. ..My H's was about 9 mos...I am having a really hard time dealing with it lately....I was much better at the beginning of this month when the other posts were written. Now, the whole part about how it lasted so long is really bothering me more than it did earlier.

My OW was 25, single, although she had a 2yr old son out of wedlock that she was not raising due to her emotional instability...Nice gal, huh? Can't even raise her own kid, so she didn't want to raise mine...my H would show pics of his kids around work and she refused to look at them, saying she would never meet them. She was an escape from reality and the mess of kids and running a house, everything that having a home and family is.

Well, I have to go now because I'm at work. I am glad that I have helped somewhat...I will be back in the morning if you reply...The issue for me now is, he says it didn't mean anything, it was just sex, but to me, it meant alot. he chose her over me for 9 mos...what does that say about me and his love/commitment for me? How do you feel about this re: your H's PA? Any ideas on how to cope? If you're struggling with this too, I'd appreciate hearing that too so I know it's not just me...Alot of posters are dealing with ONS or just a few SF encounters, which is a bit different from mine.

HAve a good night. Thanks for the pep talk, I needed it today!

--------------------
BW (Me) 38
FWH (40)
Married 14 yrs
DS 4/2000
DD 12/2002
DD 8/2005
PA 1/05 - 9/12/05
D-Day 10/13/05
Status: Trying to rebuild

[quote The issue for me now is, he says it didn't mean anything, it was just sex, but to me, it meant alot. he chose her over me for 9 mos...what does that say about me and his love/commitment for me? How do you feel about this re: your H's PA? Any ideas on how to cope? If you're struggling with this too, I'd appreciate hearing that too so I know it's not just me[/quote]

DEFINATELY not just you. I too struggle with this--daily. A year is a long time to betray everyone around you--and so is 9 months. Way too long.

On DDay, and the days that followed, the information just keep coming in. And with every new piece, I felt more and more like I was in the twilight zone. I kept telling myself "This is not the man I married--who is this person?????" It is as if he had been abducted by aliens--like so many people say in their posts here.

And ultimately, I guess this "alien" metaphor somewhat helps me to cope with what happened. Nothing about that year was consistent with my H. I still don't really comprehend how the good man that my H is could have EVER allowed that selfish monster to take over. But I just keep telling myself that it wasn't really him.

But I can see, in looking back on things, that my H was in there somewhere. He was so withdrawn and depressed that whole year--I was worried sick about him and trying like mad to figure out what was wrong. The idea that it was an A was the farthest thing from my mind. But I can see now that he hated himself and what he was doing. At least he still had a conscience and the presence of mind to feel guilty.

Why he would put himself through something that obviously brought him no happiness is a mystery to me. I read somewhere on this site that an average A lasts 2 years. Have you read that? So I guess maybe it's par for the course for the WS to become somewhat caught up in the whole thing, despite the fact that it defies common sense. Comparable to any other addiction, I suppose.

I have also wondered if maybe the WS feels a little trapped, like they are not quite sure how to extricate themselves from the situation. I think my FWH fell into this trap, also. But I am hesitant to question him too much about that. He hates to talk about it--hates to think about it. I think, in his mind, he would like to simply close to door on the whole ugly thing and walk away--pretending it never happened.

If only I could do that. Every day has its own struggles. AT least I have work, which helps me to escape from it a bit. Speaking of, I better get back to it.

Thanks for commiserating with me a bit.

God Bless,
CSJ

Hey CSJ,

Thanks for the reply...what you said about your H being abducted by aliens sound similar to me...someone once wrote in a post that she felt like she didn't have an H during his A. That is also how I feel..He was very depressed, irritable, etc, all because of his extreme guilt and shame over what he was doing. He was also withdrawn from me and spent most of his time away from home. I think he also felt trapped in something he was unable to get out of. I have read here that the WS changes in order to justify the actions to make themselves feel less guilty, they compartamentalize their lives...Like, my wife is mad at me so I'm going to see OW...He thought that because I didn't know, it wouldn't hurt me...I was never going to find out (because he could trust OW not to tell me...right, until she started threatening to tellme..then he couldn't leave her), he never was leaving his family or me so there was no threat to our M, it was just sex.

He says that at first it was new and exciting but then he was just so wracked with guilt and afraid that I would found out, that he became more and more depressed and would have panic attacks...

He would like to close the door also...of course, who wouldn't? I would love to but think of it every day...

I have to get to work now too. Just wanted to check back with you.

Hope you are having a good day!

They really all do read a script, don't they?

My FWH was so withdrawn the whole year that the A was going on--at one point I realized that I was basically a single mom. He was gone much of the time--to the "gym" (which was either a genuine visit to the treadmill, or a romp in the back of her Jeep) or hanging out with his guy pals. Another escape from reality, I suppose.

When he was home, he would warm up the plate of dinner I had made for him and slink upstairs, where he would hide out for the evening. I would try to go talk to him, and I would get monotone responses. I would try to do things for him: "Dinner's your choice tonight--anything you want." "Nothing."
"Hey, do you want to take a weekend trip to X? You've always wanted to go there?"
"No"

I was beside myself, wondering what was wrong. And then to find out that, not only was he cheating on me, but that every gesture I made to try and show him I loved him with thrown back in my face with such . . . indifference. That almost bothers me more than the sex.

And to top it off, for the first 18 mo of our youngest daughter's life, her Dad virtually ignored her. (Not just her, me and our oldest daughter too.) I have only a handfull of photos of him holding the baby--interacting with her. It breaks my heart. At least she doesn't know. God willing, she will never know how her father treated her. Does that part bother you, too? I see your daughters are about the same age as mine--bless their little hearts.

But there is Karma. My yougest DD just got over a case of pink eye (ewwwwwwh) and guess who came down with it? My FWH! I have done my job in nursing him back to health, but inside I am sorry to report that I laughed a bit. Serves him right.

It is going to take a long time for the hurt to go away for me--just when I think I am on an up-swing, something sets me off and I am crying again. But I know FWH suffers, too. Guilt is a heavy load to carry, too. And I would rather be in my shoes than his. I would hate to look at my spouse every day and know that I had caused that person so much anguish. That is his burden every day--and your FWH's burden too.

Good to chat--back to work. Take care of you!

-CSJ

C,

I used to say to him that I felt like I didn't even have a husband, that he had a secret life that I didn't know anything about. He worked weekend graveshift hours so was never able to do stuff as a family then, but on his days off during the week, he would "go to the gym" (can't tell you how many times I heard that lie and even encouraged him to go so he would feel better about himself!)...

Yes, it bothers me about his not being there for the kids, especially the baby. I was pregnant the whole time of his A, had just found out right before his A started. Had to drag him to prenatal appts, even the one for the Ultrasound to find out the baby's sex...I think he came to 2 or 3 appts. the previous pregnancy, he went to most of them. did not help me out one bit, no foot rubs, nothing...he did bring me to the hospital in the middle of the night but told me I was being dramatic because I waited too long (I woke him up at 2:30 am and left for the hospital at 3, arrived at hosp at 3:30 and delivered her at 4:03...It happened very fast and I had no pain meds at all (My previous 2 were induced, and when I called the Midwife at 12 am, she told me to go to sleep!)

Anyway, I find out after DDay that H called OW after the baby was born to tell her the news...she screamed at him. I asked why he called her and he says he wanted to tell everyuone because he was so happy and he knew she would be up (she was at work)...It makes me so f-ing angry to think about it...HIs lack of support and concern for me and the baby...He did take 2 wks off to help after baby was born, but then the A started up right where it left off although he says he was trying to end it for months before, but just kept getting sucked in. And of course, I couldn't have sf for 6 wks after, so there is that excuse, you know?

yes, guilt is terrible...i know he carries it in his heart. he has told me he regrets being such a jerk during the pregnancy and that he knows the baby would have weighed more if he had been cooking for me and taking care of me. He would even like to have another but I dont think I could go through another pregnancy. I told him that in the ER< that I couldn't do it again. Now it's not just a physical reason why...

You take care of you too. I have to go back to work now too. Will check in tomorrow. Have a good night.

I encouraged my FWH, too! It makes me feel like such a fool now, that I gave him my blessing. He said his gym visits were his "stress relief" and so I thought I should be supportive. Stress relief, my a$$.



My FWH also said he felt trapped. The night he finally confessed the whole ugly thing he told me that, when he finally got the guts to end it, OW threatened him and said, "you ruined my life so now I'm going to ruin yours." Can you imagine? Like now SHE'S the victim. Nice. And she did follow up on that threat, or tried to anyway. She got messages to me a few times by having her friends call me to tell me that the A was still going on--my H was still calling her, etc. "She just wants you to know because she's lost everything." She's a real piece of work. But what's almost worse is that, when I was telling my FWH about these lovely messages, he refuses to believe it really was her. He broke NC to call her and tell her to stop contacting me, and she told him this song-and-dance that she had nothing to do with it. Now FWH thinks her friends contacted me all on their own. Why would he defend her like that, I mean SERIOUSLY!



And that, all by itself, still makes me so angry. I shouted at my H, during one of my few vents at him after DDay, "I JUST HAD A BABY--WHY COULDN'T YOU WAIT???" And he never did answer that question. Not that I really expected him to. But why is it that babies seem to bring this ugliness out of men? I mean, we are not the only ones on this forum by any means who had to deal with an A in the midst of a new baby. Why can't they put their EN on the back burner for just a few months? Why can't they look at that beautiful, innocent new life and understand that this little soul's PHSYICAL needs outweigh his--any everyone's--EMOTIONAL needs--for just a little bit.



This adds to my heartache, too. I had always felt like we would have 3 kids--and a big part of me would love one more. But I am too afraid to go there again.

Well, back to work again. Have a good night--my thoughts are with you and your family.

-C

Good morning CSJ,

I agree with everything you wrote...the WS all seem to sound the same after you read here a while...No, we are not the only ones whose H's had As when wives are pregnant. Im thankful that he didn't leave like some here have done. I also think that I was not meant to find out before baby was born b/c I truly don't know if I would have been able to handle it...Yeah, stress relief at the gym--I was supportive also... About a month ago he told me that he was looking into joining another gym, and I just looked at him...He said, no really I need to get into shape...I told him that if he had gone to the gym all the times he said he was , he would be in great shape now. He just looked at me..nothing he could say.

I'm also angry about the SF after baby was born. Like I said before, he took 2 wks off but then went back to work and to her...The night I had my postpartum appt we had SF. It was quick because we didn't have much time, but good. I thought we were moving in the right direction there...come to find out he did her the next night, and the next and the next (and then the last was on his last day with her)...She also made trouble with him at work and told him 'you F-ed me, now I'm going to F-you"...

Anyway, I am trying to focus on what he is doing NOW so that I can move on. It's tough to do as you know. I keep thinking back to the things I can remember about last year and if I dwell on it, I just sink further.

Hope you are having a good day and weekend.

Oh, I wanted to comment again on the pregnancy...If I were you, I wouldn't give up on having another baby, if you really wanted to have three. You are young enough to wait for a full recovery before talking about it...I found this last pregnancy to be tougher due to my age, as well as everything else...that is part of the reason it was harder. MY H has asked me just a month ago about having another baby and I said I didn't know. He always wanted 4. He said what would you do if you got pregnant now, and I said I don't know, I guess I would have the baby and deal with it...I think I would if that was the case. He said, if it's for us, it will be...maybe in a couple years.

He still wants another one. I would have to see alot of changes in order to consider it. See, I was happy with 2, and he convinced me that he would help more, change his hrs, etc if we had a third. Instead he had an A. He is very thankful for the baby and so am I, don't get me wrong...she is truly a gift from God...I wouldn't have gotten through this without her and the other kids. But I think that I would have been more in tune to what was going on if I wasn't pregnant, and my H took advantage of the situation and my vulnerability. I hope that makes sense.

It does--I think that's part of why I didn't see things developing like I wish I had. My last baby was SOOO high-maintainance at the first--I hardly slept. And then at 8 weeks I went back to work and had so much on my plate. I admit that I was distracted, and I think that is probably part of the justification my FWH used for his A--that I was too wrapped up with the kids. I understand the complaint, but there is a DIFFERENCE between ignoring my H all the time, and ignoring him when you are up nursing a baby every 2 hours for months . . . . I just don't understand why he couldn't have appriciated that the situation was temporary, or at least TALKED to me about it . . .

But I'm grateful for progress. I at least can say that I am glad I am here, working on my marriage. And just a few months ago all I wanted was a divorce. I am grateful the my FWH did come to his senses, and that he is putting forth genuine effort.

He does drag his feet on some things--mostly when I try to implement a new idea. He doesn't want to schedule 15 hours a week together--he doesn't want to try new activities--he doesn't want to give up guy nights (one or two a week), that kind of thing. He says our marriage was great before--his A was just a stupid mistake that will never happen again, and that we can just do what we were doing before.

Obviously this is not acceptable to me. I agree that much of what we did before was good. But his A still happened. So part of healing our marriage is going to have to mean changing it. But I think he struggles with that because he equates the amount of work required with the amount of pain he caused. And I know it hurts him to face that. I try not to show it too much. We haven't even spoken of the A in quite some time. Just focusing on keeping our spirits up and being good to eachother. FWH planned a trip for this Spring to Santa Fe. I've never been there, so that will be fun. Or else I'll decide that a week alone with him drives me absolutely crazy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Anyway--good to chat. Have a great day and a great weekend. My best to you and your family.

-C.

CSJ,

"But I think he struggles with that because he equates the amount of work required with the amount of pain he caused. And I know it hurts him to face that. I try not to show it too much."

This is My H too... we have gotten off track in our recovery plan because he hates to talk about it, and I sometimes don't bring it up because I don't want to ruin a good night, you know. I think he's afraid if we start talking about our M, I will get all emotional (I've done that many times) but we have talked about it with out me LBing so I am getting better in this regard. I am working on trying to make him feel safe talking to me about the A.

My H said at the beginning that he would do the 15 hrs a week but that is really really tough w/ little kids...by the time they go to bed, we are both exhausted, part of the problem...not enough private time together...

I'm glad that you and your H are doing well.. OUr M was not great before, but the big thing was that we lost each other. we were living separate lives and not connecting at all. Now we are doing better and communicating. The SF is better. He says he is sorry that he was so stupid. He is glad that it happened, he says, because now we have the chance to make our M better....I have seen alot of changes in both of us, enough to give me some hope, but some days are tougher than others, as you know.

My H also HATES scheduling SF, time together, etc. He thinks that is so un-sexy...but at least then you get some, you know? The way we were, he didn't get it enough and that was part of the draw to OW because she was young and single with no kids to distract them...

I went back to work at 6 wks and I know what you mean..You have so much stress on your plate and trying to be everything to everybody...I don't think Hs have an idea of how hard that is... Why they don't talk to us is another mystery that I will never understand....I also thought about divorce, and even threatened it a few times, but stopped doing that. We are both committed to our M so that is good. I just have to get over the fact that he chose someone else over me for that long of a time. He says he never stopped loving me and never was going to leave, but I can't imagine doing this to someone I loved...

I am glad to hear you are going away together - that is great. Wish we could do it. Our anniversary is coming up at the end of the month and I want to do something special.

Thanks for the chat. I'll be back on Monday (don't work the weekends). I'll look for you...Have a good weekend!
C

The 15 hours is really hard--not to mention when you add sickness to it! Everyone in the house has taken their turn to get sick since D-Day, and so it's been really exhausting. I would get the kids to bed between 8:00-8:30 and then turn around to see FWH getting into bed, too. Oh brother! I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall sometimes trying to re-connect with my H. It's so hard to find the time, even on a good day.

And I'm not sure how helpful it is at this point to talk about the A. It tears into what is still a very raw wound for me to discuss it with him--and I know he HATES it. I really had to drag some details out of him at first. You know, when you're in that obsessive stage where you want to ask all the detailed questions, and then once they answer them you wonder why you asked in the first place. So I haven't brought it up in a while. I guess I am hoping that, at some point, he will feel comfortable enough to bring it up to me. But I don't know if he will. So do I gain anything by bringing it up? I just don't know.



I keep telling myself that he DID choose me, and this should make me feel better. But somehow it ticks me off even more. I am his WIFE--the MOTHER of his CHILDREN. There should never have been a choice to make!!! Sometimes I feel like the OW and I were engaged in some teenage girl fight over who would "win his affection" and that makes me feel so pathetic.

But I am gradually working through this, I think. I spent the better part of Saturday making FWH his favorite cookies--they are soooo good but rather time consuming. The whole time I made them, I just kept smiling to myself. "I am a better cook than OW. She never made him these cookies. She never made him anything. She doesn't even know that they are his favorite. My H is sooooo lucky to have me."

I hope you do something wonderful for your anniversary, too. You deserve it! Make him treat you like a Queen!

It's good to visit! I'll check in again tomorrow, and have a great day.

CSJ

Hi there,

I didn't have time to check here yesterday. I know what you mean about not having time to connect with your H. I find it almost impossible. My H also was going to bed early last week, he was depressed and kind of sick too.

My H sometimes mentions the OW (talking about how crazy she was) and I try not to react or LB... What I have learned to do is to just listen and be calm so he feels safe when he does open up. I'm trying to build his trust that I won't react angrily...but I LBd last week and brought her up in an argument and he said later that he was like, where did that come from?

I think you do gain alot by bringing the A up, but it has to be done in a nonthreatening way. Schedule the time, with a time limit. No LBs or bringing up what is revealed to hold against him. Listen calmly and thank him for his honesty, even though it hurts. You want him to trust you (I know it sounds strange, but he is afraid you will be mad/upset). Some posters have suggested writing a list of questions and determining what you are trying to learn from the answer, what will it help you to do? And also you can give him a list ahead of time so he knows what to expect. I haven't done the list of qts.

I know that there shouldn't have been a choice of someone else over me, that is what gets me! I know what you mean about the teenage girl fight, and I feel like,I was in competition with her and DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT!!! How could I compete w/ her when I didn't know I even had competition? He says there was no competition, she doesn't hold a candle to me...but I still get anxious over this.

I bet you deposited TONS of love units in H's love bank with those cookies. My H loves my cookies, baking, anything like that. I haven't done it in ages. not enough time anymore...when I do, he really appreciates it. He told me this weekend how much he appreciates me and that made me feel really good. The more he shows and tells me that he loves me, the more secure I feel. I feel really needy about that now.

Always good to catch up with you. I'll check back tomorrow (Thurs). Have a great night!!!!

What questions about the A have you asked that you felt were most helpful? I stopped asking about it a while ago--I just felt like I was spinning my wheels. He maintained that he had never brought her to our home--thank God. But I did drag out of him that they had gone to hotels a few times instead of just messing around in her Jeep. Then I started obsessing about which hotels they had visited. Why do I even care? I don't know.

The only other questions I kept pressing were the "whys." For example: "what emotional needs was she meeting for you?" "what were you unhappy with in our marriage?" And he never could answer these questions. He maintains that he was happy before the A, and he just don't know why he did it. I have run this around in my head so many times. Makes no sense. Ultimately, I think he can't point to one reason he did it because there isn't one specific reason it happened. Rather, I see it as a combination of things: reduced SF and attention after the birth of DD2, stress after buying new home, and disappointment after being passed up for promotion.

Maybe, now that he's had a break from the constant interrogation I gave him initially, I could bring some questions up again. I just don't know if I'm ready to hear the answers.

Interesting that your H said the "OW didn't hold a candle to you." This just fits the OW profile to a "T", doesn't it? There is seriously no competition between me and my H's OW. Not to sound vain or anything, but seriously, I cannot imagine what my FWH ever saw in her. (Except the eye-catching boob job I mentioned to you before.) Why risk everything for women like that? I don't get it.

Glad to chat! Enjoy your evening, and I'll check back tomorrow.

-C.

Hey C,

That is a good question, what questions did I find helpful? I will have to think about this and get back to you later today.

I don't know what the OW looks like, as I don't know her, and only go by what my H has said. He admits that I would be shocked by what she looks like. He tells me all the time how beautiful I am. About a month ago, he was telling me that I spend too much time thinking of OW and giving her too much power. He told me, I am thinking that she is so gorgeous and she really isn't. so I said, well all I know is that she is blonde and that she looks like Jodie Foster, so of course I imagine that she is beautiful (this is all he had told me at the time). So he says, she does not look like JF she just resembles her and she has strawberry blonde hair, more reddish, and then he describes her to me...I was surprised to hear that she isn't that attractive, because of course you want to think she must be, why else would he do this?? She has smaller boobs than me to top it all off...so physically I have it all over her and that makes me feel good, great in fact. The only thing is that I think her body is probably fantastic since she was only 26 and had only 1 kid a couple yrs earlier. Have I told you that she doesn't raise her 2 yr old son because she isn't responsible enough...

Anyway, I will think about the qts and reply later.

I wanted to know the "whys" also...I knew why he was unhappy. He answered the big why right away...he felt rejected by me because I was more involved w/ the kids than him, and felt like I wasn't attracted to him, reduced SF and affection, he was approaching 40 and wanted to see if he still had it, he was having a midlife crisis, stress and arguing at home, my pregnancy (I was not feeliing well for 2 mos and very moody, depressed), work stress and burnout (working graveshift hrs on the weekends and OT during the week, up to 60 hrs/ wk, etc. When I read SAA and HNHN, our scenario was there a lot about the child-focused marriage and the H and W losing each other. This is what we did. We lost touch w/ each other. He stopped being affectionate w/ me and I felt neglected and in turn rejected his advances because I was angry....Vicious cycle. She had been flirting with him (very raunchy flirting) for 6 mos, before he 'gave in" and went home w/ her when she asked him to again, because he and I had a huge huge fight. He stopped wanting to come home because he dreaded the fighting. When he would come home, I would be cold to him or busy and he would provoke an argument w/ me , turn around and leave to go see her...and blame me for the fighting. This was in the early mos of the A. As they began to fight, he says he would not go to her apt either because she would fight w/ him and say, you only come here when you have a fight w/ your wife...

One thing that also contributed to why it was so long, why it went on for months and months (another thing I won't understand) is that she focused completely on him. No kids living with her, an empty apartment. This was what I wanted to know--what was their relationship like? He says it was just sex and he cared about her because he felt sorry for her...I want to know (still do) what they did sexually (i imagine they did everything we have done and maybe more) and what else--watch tv? what did they talk about? What did he tell her about me? What did she do to get him back when he tried to break it off?

One question I haven't asked but it is a good one is, How did the OW make you feel about yourself? I think she made him feel like a Knight in Shining Armor. there are alot of old posts on this topic. The wife is strong and taking care of the kids and house, being independent and the H feels like he is not needed, so here's this OW that looks up to him, admires him, and he feels sorry for her so he feels needed and cared for...I thought I was being the good mother that he kept telling me that I was. Instead he thought I didn't need him...even though I was pregnant and needed him so badly, but I was too stubborn to give in.

Have you done the EN questionnaire? That is a good place to start w/ your H if you haven't done it yet. My H has been reluctant to do the MB stuff, but we need to get back into it. What we did with the EN Qt at his suggestion, was to rate your spouse as to how they meet ENs now, and how ENs were being met before the A started (Jan 05 in our situation). Have you read SAA and HNHN> These books helped me to understand how As happen.

I don't think that there is only ONE reason....rather like a series of things that happen and when they all come together, it is disaster. You do have to be ready to hear the answers though and be prepared that they will hurt. When we spent a couple hrs talking, I got alot out and it hurt. But I told him that the not knowiing and imagining the answers was worse than the truth. I told him I understood it was hard for him and for me but I felt better afterward.. I feel that the more I know, the less time I will spend obsessing over details, and then I really can move on. I don't want to keep throwing it in his face...

I hope that helps. My H said that there was never a question in his mind about leaving me. They were in it just for sex but she fell in love w/ him. Then when she started making demands on him like a wife, he would back away. But she would get him back by making him feel sorry for her, sex, whatever, threatening to tell me...I still have alot of qts about the whole thing.

One thing that I stopped asking was, didn't you think about me at all? because he would get really defensive and angry due to his guilt. You have to remember that they are in a fog and they were not acting normally. He can't believe that he would risk his family for her now that he can see it in hindsight. He felt at the time that it was not a threat to the M because he was not leaving the M. He didn't stop to consider my feelings...that hurts alot...

What helps me now is when he reassures me that I am the one he wants to be with. I try to compliment him, show him affection and respect, and appreciate him more. We do love each other very very much, just stopped communicating with each other. Instead of talking to me about our problems, he gave in to her pursuit of him...Then I think he got trapped in a situation he wanted to get out of but was unable to do so. He was afraid something would happen w/ the baby if I found out before the baby was born.

I hope some of this helps. It is tough to hear the answers but I think it makes it easier to move on...If you imagine the answers, you may make it worse than it really is because you imagine the worst! (I was concerned that my kids may have met her or been introduced to her when they visited him at work. When I asked, he said, No and that she wouldn't even look at pictures of his kids because she said she would never meet them...How's that? She was so in love w/ him and wanted him to leave, but was not going to meet his kids...

Have a good night. It's nice to vent and share similar stories. I will check back with you tomorrow. Take care!

Thanks for your answers--I appreciate so much the time you took to think things through with me.

We read "Surviving the Affair" together and both agreed it was helpful, but my H has been a little reluctant to follow through on all of the ideas, like the 15 hours, and filling out hte questionnaire. I filled mine out. (Although I did it according to me present feelings, not my feelings before the A--this was a goof but worked out well because I wrote out a lot of my feelings and was able to take the time to phrase things so that it wasn't an angry vent--but a constructive way to express how I was feeling.) He promised several times to do his, but wouldn't. Then I told him to at least rank his EN's--he promised he would, but didn't. So I have been going off of the most common male EN's and trying to meet those.

I am pretty confident that recreation is one (he complained during the A that "it was too boring to sit around the house"), and SF, he is a guy, after all. And I know it's important to him for me to take care of the house and the kids--cook, clean, domestic stuff. But admiration probably fits in there, too. I'm sure he got plenty of that from her, and I think his self esteem was hurting when he was passed over for the promotion at his work.

I have read HN/HN, but my H hasn't tried to get into that, he says it is "basically the same thing" which is generally true, so I haven't pressed that issue.

But something that frustrated me was, in reading the "case studies" in both books, I couldn't really find an obvious parallel to my M. I've stopped driving myself nuts on this point, but it still nags at me. Before the A--there weren't any glaring problems. Sure, we struggled to find alone time once the kids came along. We battled with that like all parents do. But we were doing okay, I thought. We were no worse than many couples I know, and their H's didn't cheat. So I am just resigned that there are certain things about the A that I will never, ever comprehend.

I think part of what caused the length of it was just the excitement of it. He's admitted to me that they text-messaged each other constantly--so I'm sure he felt like she was very focused on him. She was married (her H has now filed for divorce) with 2 young kids, but from what her STBXH has told me, she was rarely home with them, and she rarely sees them now and has her own apartment. I think it pretty much was just sex when they were together. They met up and used her car, so what else could they do? And he was always home by 8:30 or 9:00, so there was no talking for hours or anything like that. I just don't see what was worth a whole year of our lives. What was worth 5 minutes?

My H also says he was never going to leave--so I'm sure that was part of the justification, too. But I know they did talk about it. The OW was rather vocal to some of her female associates, and the "talk" got back to me. She told them that my H "led her on" and made her believe that if she just held out for a while, he would be in a position to leave me. My H, of course, denies this vehemently. So my guess is that they are both lying a little. They probably talked about running off together, but my H thought it was all talk and she didn't. But it devestated me when the talk got to my ears. How could he even pretend something like that? We have the 2 most amazing little girls--and they love him. Their eyes light up when he comes in the room. Too young to recognize that he ignored them for a year . . . too young to be hurt by it.

He has made some signficant changes, though, so that makes me feel like we are headed in the right direction. I really am not angry anymore--just very hurt, incredibly disappointed, and I feel such distance between us. Only time will heal this, I suppose. Right now I feel like I will always be a little jaded about what it means to be in love. Maybe it just meant something different to me than it did to him? He did tell me during the A that there was "no such thing as a soul mate"--which still stings a bit. At the time, I knew he was saying that he and I weren't. But I guess he didn't feel that way about her either.


Maybe he's not capable of that connection with anyone.

Anyway--enough rant for tonight. Have a good evening--and I'll check back later. I hope all is well for you and your H.

Take care!
-C

Hey C,

I just wanted to bump this up and I will respond later. what I have been doing is copying your post and then typing my comments in Word, and then coming back and pasting it in. It is quicker for me and I don't have to keep the MB site up on my screen.

Here goes...

My H read some of the printouts from the website on Infidelity and the Love Bank. He has not read any of the books (he is not a reader) but at first was willing to let me read to him. We did the EN questionnaires in Jan, like I said, for pre A and the present.. BUT we have not yet reviewed them with each other...This has been brought up by me several times. I haven't pushed more, but want to get it done this weekend. I told him last weekend that we were being lazy.

Anyway, I think you are probably right about your H's ENs. I have a confession to make==I sneaked and looked at his completed questionnaire after a month had gone by and we hadn't done it. I was a bit surprised. SF was #1 (that wasn't a surprise), BUT domestic support was also up there, higher than I would have thought. Physical attractiveness was also high, and conversation and admiration were lower than I thought. Recreation was low (he doesn't really have many activities outside home, watches alot of sports on tv). Affection was also high for him. I think that you should tell your H that you really need him to do this. I know I say this and I haven't done it either, but I think you will get resentful if your Ens aren't being met and his are. I know that is how I have been feeling lately, especially the last few wks. How can he meet them, if he doesn't know what they are? I think my H was reluctant to review the answers because he was afraid to find out how he was doing meeting my needs, both pre a and after. See, he wasnt' meeting my ENs then either...He just doesn't want to see it written , I think he realizes it now.

If your H says the A was about SF only, that is pretty sure that SF will be #1. Otherwise, the whole reason of the A is not true, that 's how I see it with my H also. If you say it was all for SF, then that HAS to be your #1. Oh, and Openness and Honesty was also up there on his list (I was like, what a hypocrite---you want O&H but won't give it)....

The excitement of it was a big reason for the length in my opinion also. They did not text message but called each other all the time. My H got a cell phone for the first time last Feb, I thought it was because I was pregnant, and he worked nights, so it was so I could always reach him. That was part of it but the big part was so they could call each other (he will not admit this, but he called her first when he got it. Then he called me to tell me he got it. What does that tell you? We hadn't even discussed him getting a phone, he just went and did it). He was always talking on the phone at home, going outside w/ it to smoke and talk . I didn't know he was talking to OW of course. I never ever even touched his phone (didn't know how to use it)...so didn't have a clue...

Anyway like I said before she was single and had her own apartment so that is where they went. He worked an hour away , I didn't know any of his coworkers, so this never got back to me, like it did to you. My H also vehemently denies that he was leaving to be w/ her...he gets very angry when this is brought up. She told people after they broke up for good that he got jealous that she was going out with someone else, that he said he left his family for her, and changed his work schedule to be with her. This makes him crazy. I don't know if it is all true or not. The guy she was seeing looks like Burl Ives /Santa Claus and is 30 yrs older than her so my H says why would he be jealous, he told her that he was glad she found someone else. He changed his schedule so he would have more time w/ family. But he gets so angry when this gets brought up, that I wonder if maybe there is some truth to it...Like you I think he may be lying to protect me...He helped her to find a new apartment, which she moved into after the break up. I wonder if maybe he was planning to move with her, it was farther away from their work, closer to our home. He says a big part of this was convenience. They both worked nights and her place was only 15 min away. They would meet there, have sex, sleep and then he'd come home (i worked days so wasn't around anyway)...He said she wrote him love letters that he kept at her place so i wouldn't find them. I wonder if there is some truth to what she is saying...You know he protests it so much. I think maybe he led her on to think that he may still keep her around...but he refuses to admit it. I think I told you she said she was not going to meet his kids, she couldn't take care of her own, and I know for a fact that he would not leave his kids...He would also not trust her to watch his kids (he told me that the few times that she did take care of her son (her mother keeps him) that she let him at 2 yrs old play in the unfenced front yard that is right next to a very busy street, while she was inside watching tv....THAT is why she doesn't have custody, she has no responsiblity so he knew she was not for him. He would never abandon his kids to be with anyone.

As for what you said about your M is not in the case studies,. that is not unusual if you read alot of the posts on MB. Many As happen in "happy M's"...Read Fantastgirls posts. SHe says her H even said he was happy. Many BS s say that the M was happy. there was alot of SF , etc. It is something in the WS that makes them do it. It is not YOUR fault...You know that, I hope...My H has a hard time taking responsilbilty for his actions. I told him that I accept my responsibiltiy in the pre-A marriage but HE made the CHOICE to have the A. He owns that. He admitted that he did choose to do this....Of course he regrets it now, but he did admit that. That was a tough thing for him to do. Maybe your H is similar?

I also get what you are saying about being jaded, not feeling the same, what does marriage mean to him? I wonder about my H also. He told me that he grew up w/ alot of men having the wife and a woman on the side and he can understand why now. I wonder if maybe this is why he thought there was no threat to our M, that he thought it was OK to do. I 'm not so angry anymore either, and feel all of the things you describe (very hurt, incredibly disappointed, and I feel such distance between us. Only time will heal this, I suppose. Right now I feel like I will always be a little jaded about what it means to be in love.),...but I think it will get better. last week I was like I'm not in love w/ him and don' t know if I ever will be again. This week, I see a little spark of the love between us, and I think it will return. I'm a big believer in the Love Bank theory and just need to get back to the MB stuff.

Ask your H, is the best possible outcome of this situation that the parents of your children are in love with each other? If the answer is yes, then we have to do what we can to make this happen and that means doing the MBquestionnaires, meeting needs,etc. (I read this in MB, and asked him a little diffferently, but his answer was yes, so that is how I started up again about doing MB).]

Time is what we need and it will take alot of it, 1-2 yrs...The A was a fantasy that the Hs started to realize when reality started to come in...You are what he wants, and his family ...try to enjoy the present, the good days...try not to pressure him to respond...try to expect nothing, it's hard but try to do it anyway...Tell him that you need to do the ENs though. If you do a little bit at a time, maybe he will do it.

Good luck. Let me know how it goes. I hope you have a good weekend!!

M

Okay--I guess I need to really encourage him to do something with his EN questionnaire. After he read mine, I think he felt like a big jerk (I really spent a lot of time explaining how he had treated me during the A and how it made me feel, that sort of thing. Not mean--but straightforward). So that may have discouraged him a bit to fill out his. I told him that if he didn't tell me what his needs were, how could I meet them? He said, "just keep being you." Whatever. Like "being me' kept him from having an A in the first place. But he's had a little break now and is maybe ready to get back to the MB stuff.

I also really believe in the Lovebank theory. The whole MB concept really struck a chord with me--it said so many of the things I was feeling but hadn't articulated. After DDay, I didn't kick my H out (which was my first instinct) and I started doing a "plan A" without really knowing it. So I do believe that, in time, the Lovebank thing will work for us. I told you that my H had planned a trip for us this Spring. He was showing me on the internet the hotels he had reserved for us, and they are beautiful. He was soooo proud of himself that he had done a romantic thing for me, all on his own. That was a really nice deposit. He also calls and "checks in" from time to time now--something he NEVER did before and was actually really against. And a bigger effort to show me affection--hold my hand, snuggle, that good stuff. He is really trying, and I try and tell him that it means a lot to me.

I have read quite a few other posts from people who were in "good marriages" before the A--and they all seem as confused as I am. It is a little comforting to know that my situation is not completely isolated, but still so confusing. He has told me repeatedly that he was happy before the A, and so was I. And I would NEVER have done this to him. I just try and set aside this frustration and focus on what positive things I can do to improve my marriage, instead of focusing on what negative things existed before. Some days that helps.

But it bothers me to think that maybe marriage never meant to him what it means to me. His supervisor with his work also works with me (we both work for the City in different but related departments). His supervisor had a fatherly chat with my H as everything was coming out, and then he talked with me afterward. I told him that I had thought seriously about kicking H out, and he said, without even pausing, "You wouldn't have done that." "Really, why?" And then he told me "because marriage means something different to you." I know he meant this as a compliment--he is a thoughtful man and has been very supportive of me and H. But I wonder if the problems with me and H can ever really be fixed if, at the very core, he is not committed to marriage.

It seems strange that he wouldn't be--because his mom cheated on his dad when he was growing up, and it devestated his family. The parents divorced and it was a very bitter thing. I guess that's at least part of why his A was such a shock. He knew better than anyone how hurtful it would be.

But--now I feel guilty. I have made him sound like such a jerk! And the man I married isn't a jerk--I really don't believe he was. He told me that he would prove to me that he could be a good husband and father. I'm glad I'm giving him that chance.

Thanks for the chat. I am going to try and have a conversation with him tonight--some of those questions you suggested.

Have a great weekend--I'll check back later.

-C.

Hi C,

One thing that you may want to do is to have you BOTH take the EN questionnaires again. YOu said that you spent alot of time on the first one and he wasn't meeting needs. How about now? If you did it now, I think he would be pleased to see how he is coming closer to meeting needs now. (YOu say he checks in now, is more affectionate, etc) all of this is progress...that is why we did it based on two different times in our M (and it was my H's suggestion). This may also help him feel like MB is not full of blaming him as the WS. IT will help you meet his needs and he will see how you are appreciating the changes he has made....good luck with it! You may want to try doing the Questionaire now and hold off on asking him detailed qts about the A for now... It may be too much for him to handle all at once, you know. You don't want to scare him, you know?


You said "because his mom cheated on his dad when he was growing up, and it devestated his family. The parents divorced and it was a very bitter thing. I guess that's at least part of why his A was such a shock. He knew better than anyone how hurtful it would be." This is just like my H also. His mom cheated on his dad (he didn't find out until he was an adult) but his dad cheated on his mom when he was a kid and his mom threw him out. His dad ended up marrying the OW, having 2 kids and then they got a divorce after 20 yrs (his wife cheated on him with another man. See the vicious cycle)...This is what also surprised me (and his mother when she found out he had the A.. She said, how could he do this when he knows the pain this caused. She told me that it had to have just been sex with him because he never wanted to have his kids grow up without him...She also told me that alot of men that he knew in his family and neighborhood, had wives and OW on the side. It was accepted as long as the wife was not disrespected...I had no idea about this...

this makes it hard to understand...but I am also like you and think, maybe this means that he was never as committed to the M as me because he had this background. We will never really know. I dont think they will admit it...but hopefully they have learned their lesson and now realize they want us, the home and the kids...You never appreciate what you have until it's gone...

Please don't feel guilty about saying these things. My H is a good man and father too. If he wasn't a good man, he wouldn't be sticking with you....my H also deserves a chance....It is good to get these feelings out with someone who understands. This way you can get these out so you won't LB on your H...That's how I look at it....

That is also great that your H is planning your getaway in the spring...very big Love Bank deposit there...

Have a great weekend and talk. Try to listen and learn...show him that you appreciate him...

Take care,
MF