Hi,

Will try to respond to everyone's comments...

CSJ,
Grey's Anatomy - don't watch it. Glad that the H is back with the W though. I had heard that there is alot of infidelity on that show through this board. I don't watch much tv , except for kids' shows (I laughed when you asked how I could stand Sponge Bob last week)...I really can't , but I tolerate it...If you get past the stupidity of it all, and stop asking logical questions, it can be entertaining..:)

I understand the pain and hurt you are feeling about SF...I really do....BUT you have to gear yourself up for this and JUST DO IT... When is this trip to NM? Unless it is in the next couple of weeks, I don't think you should wait until then to initiate this on your own...Go to Victoria's Secret, get a manicure (and pedicure, since you said you love those), put the kids to bed early and get busy..Don't rush it, make sure you have time and no distractions. Relax, have a glass of wine, whatever. It has been way too long... Like HF also said, it is hard, but it is worth it.. I also said I had no interest in SF at first, but that changed. It will help you to feel that you are desired by your H--that he finds you attractive. I told my H how hard it was for me the first few times and he said he knew. Your H knows this too, that is why he is not pushing you on this. He understands how hard it is for you. I found it very hard to let go and just enjoy it, without thinking of OW the first few times. Sometimes I still have to put her out of my memory. For me this is tough because my mind races. During his A, we had only quickies (for him) and bj's (obviously for him). A couple months into the A, he came home and told me that some women at work told him that pregnant women may not want to have sex so he would understand if I didn't want to. (What a nice guy, huh. And how nice of the OW to put this thought into his head!). Never mind that he was never home, or when he was, he was asleep, so there was no SF. I can remember only a few times during the A that we actually had some SF that was good for me...I know how much you are hurting, CSJ...I can think of so many times that I lay in bed awake while he slept...or he would go out when I was getting ready to go to bed...If I had done what you had done with the candles, I know my H would have done the same thing...

This is one way that your H can show his love for you, that only he can do. You need to open yourself up to him in this way, you really do. My H told me that he thought I didn't like sex because I didn't initiate, would push him away sometimes when I was tired, or mad. I realized that I was insecure about sex--not sure of myself, what would he think of me if I am horny, etc. I let my inhibitions about my body and my anger about him not being home prevent me from having SF with him,. So much so, that he had an A because he didn't want to be rejected anymore. I realized that what I had been doing (or not doing) led to the worst thing that had ever happened to me, so obviously I was doing something wrong. So I tried to become more open and loving to him. As a result, after this, he said that we were having more and better sex than he had ever imagined. You need to show your H that sex with you is not just sex. You are making love on a level that you have not reached before==because of all the hurt and pain, because of the deep love and emotions that you feel for each other. This is your goal--to truly show him how much you love him, and he can show you how much he loves you. You want him to understand that sex without love is nothing compared to the sex that he will get with you...Believe me, you will feel better and more loved.

We are not in our honeymoon period anymore, but that is because of the legal issues...We were really hot & heavy for a few mos though. It helped me because I really felt disconnected from him if we hadn't done it in a few days...and that was new to me...to actually miss sex, and be craving it in only a few days....This is how we were able to recover and to communicate...if you are communicating in bed, your communication outside the bedroom will also improve, I guarantee it!! You would be surprised at the difference. I was guilty of wearing old pjs to bed, no romance...I bet if you lit those candles now, you would get an entirely different reaction!

As far as Brokeback Mountain goes, I didn't see it. But maybe watching it by himself gave your H a different perspective on the A.

It sounds like our Hs are continuing to act in that selfish mode they did during the A sometimes....I don't know how to change this except to maybe change your reaction to it. Although I am as guilty of this as anyone as far as LBing about this.

F&L, My H says that he was ONLY with OW for the sex...that it became convenient because she lived near work, and he basically used her to have sex and then sleep at her place. He says that he only met her child a couple times. But, he did help her to get a new apartment (why, I wonder...was this a plan to have a little love nest. The new apt is farther away from work, but closer to our house...still 30 min away...Hmmmm...he will not admit that this was to be for THEM, but I wonder...).

Well, I was going to end, but see a couple new posts.

HF, Get the HNHN regular (not for parents). I read both, but the regular one goes into more details and was more helpful to me. The HNHN for parents talks more about how to fit it all in and make your M a priority over the kids. This is a big point for Dr. Harley. That child-centered Ms are more susceptible to affairs....I would read the one for parents too, but read the regular one first.

F&L, My H's father always told him that I was a good girl and to treat me well. He is very disappointed in my H for this whole thing, although what can he say? He did the same to my H's mother...

During the A, my H would come home and tell me that I didn't know how close a divorce we were, that the only thing keeping us together was the kids, and all kinds of stuff like this. Really hurtful...of course I thought it was all talk but now I don't know if he really meant it (this was in the early days of the A)...

Well, that's if for now...

CSJ,

That is great about the trip to NM...I missed your post while I was writing mine.

After DDAy, I asked my H how he would feel if the tables were turned. How he would be able to deal w/ knowing that I had slept w/ another man many many times...he said that he wouldn't be able to think of it. But he would try to make me forget about the OM by giving me the best sex I ever had...

Just a thought from the opposite sex...I tried turning it around on him and while I don't know if it was the best ever for him, it was for me...Don't torture yourself with thoughts of what it was like for them. Make it all about you and your H...Make him forget about her...

CSJ,

Another thing that I wanted to point out...I was also big on withholding sex for punishment (like HF mentioned too). This came back to haunt me when I found out about his A...It was a vicious cycle right out of SAA. He withdrew emotionally from me and I withdrew from him physically. After Dday, when I began to approach him physically, he began to approach me emotionally.

I know that you can do this. It is your fear that is paralyzing you now...Fear of the pain and hurt. Fear of rejection...Fear of the mental pictures in your head...fear of comparisons to OW...but what do you have to lose now? He has already had an A....Like I said, in my case, the worst has already happened...do I want to risk losing him again if I keep acting the same way (not having SF)...? Think about this...I read on MB months ago that men do not compare women during SF. This was written by a man. He said that it is the woman at the moment that turns them on, that they are thinking about. Your H loves you and wants to have SF with you. You know this because he has approached you for it.

Have you talked about this with him, as to why you have not been able to have SF with him?

Well, I have to go but will be back in the morning. Have a good night everyone!

Hi Ladies,

It's so funny, we are so alike in so many ways. Before all this my husband never could keep his hands off me. Although after many years of being together he was a "little quick on the draw", but I didnt care - I knew he loved me.

But, then when he was having his fling - things started changing - SF was less and less and when we did have it - I felt as though he was struggling to finish - almost like he was forcing himself. This certainly didn't make me feel good.

Once D-day passed, I was the same way, when we would have SF - I would lay there sometimes and think - did he do the same thing to her - what did she do to him - was he thinking of her when he was doing me? I needed him so much - at times the SF was so intense - we were almost animalistic - other times I couldn't even do anything - I would start crying. My husband would get angry at me - and tell me I got to stop this.

But, MamaFish has it right - you have to communicate in the bedroom - because if you don't - they'll go elsewhere.

Okay, my new goal is to get someone else hooked on "Grey's Anatomy." I don't know if it's that I think Patrick Dempsy is so darn cute or what, but I really love that show! Seriously, I think one of the major appeals to me is that it is really about MB concepts. A few episodes ago the BS (husband) even went to his FWW and told her that he understood that he had withdrawn from her prior to her A and that he was partially responsible for what had happened. It's really uplifting to me to watch those characters work on their M.

And I do agree with MF, that the selfish mode continues for our H's. I think that the selfishness was an underlying factor for my H from the very begining--and probably for most WS's. Or maybe stubborness would be a better term than selfishness in our case. I don't think my H really is intending to disregard everyone else's needs, he can actually be a very giving person. It's more about him doing things in his own way, you know?

There are some things that are just not negotiable to him. He wants to have his "me" time, where he can go to the gym or have a visit with his guy friends, and it doesn't seem to register to him that he is taking that luxury at my expense. For example, during his A he kind-of barked at me once about "why don't you ever go to the gym?" (I think this was a pathetic attempt to ease his guilt--if I abandoned the family for an hour or so a day, then maybe he wouldn't feel so badly about cheating on me.) I just responded that it would be nice, but when exactly would I do that? I get home from work a little after 6pm generally, and then he was out the door to the "gym." Meanwhile, I'm getting kids fed and to bed--a routine that keeps me busy until 8:30-9:00 pm. And at 9:30-10:00 I go to bed so I can be up at 5:30 and start the whole mess over again. So when exactly is my "me" time? He couldn't answer that question. But it was the last time he told me to go to the gym.

We are working out some of the problems out with his stubborness, but it is not an issue that is going to be put to rest easily.

Anyhow, I better get back to work. I hope you all have a great evening, and I'll check in again later!

-C.

And I missed the last few posts while I was writing my last.

I have thought a lot about my motivations in not having SF, because I really don't want it to be a punishment thing. I agree with you about the cycle it initiates. And I think I am being honest with myself to say that I am really not trying to punish him. It just hurts so much. I cry every time I even think about it--my secretary walked in after I posted before today and got all worried about me: "Have you been crying? Are you okay?"

And knowing now that SF is one of his EN's, I am concerned about him looking elsewhere. But then part of me says, "so what?" Because I already told him that he was getting only one chance--a second affair and I'm done. If he can't be patient with me while I put myself back together from what he has done, then I will leave. But you're right--I don't want to drive him away. Thus far he has been very patient with me, and I am grateful to him for that. And I do think he owes me that, all things considered. I recognize this is the main thing I need to work on right now--it just hurts me so much I cannot say.

But thanks for all of your kind words and support. It helps immensely.

And how fun, F&L, to have met so many interesting people! You must have hundreds of interesting stories! And that would be something to meet Pope John Paul--I have such respect for him. So sad when he died.

But I've got to run and pick up my girls, so I will check back in the morning!

-C.

CSJ:

My biggest problem also is my husband is so stubborn - I guess he's like his dad. I'm stubborn also, but I usually give in.

I like Patrick Dempsey too. Wasn't he the pizza boy in that movie from the 80's - where he was "servicing" the rich older women (forgot the name of the movie)?

Yeah, my husband used to tell me to join a gym to get rid of my "pooch" on my stomach when I was working - like I had some spare time. I also used to be so tired by 8-9:00, I'd sit down to watch a little TV and I would fall asleep sitting up. He used to tell me all I do is sleep - what!!! I worked full time, came home, cooked, cleaned, took care of homework, girls, etc. - he couldn't understand why I was so tired. He would come home, watch TV-while I was cooking, eat, go back and sit down-while I cleaned up, watch more TV or play video games for about 1 hr. or more. A little different I think. Now I don't have a job, I just do everything around the house, all the yard work, any wallpapering, painting, cleaning, laundry, cooking, minor repairs, all pool maintenance, cut the girls hair, visit my dad, sew the drapes, shampoo the carpets.....then I've got to be ready at night for SF. I sometimes I feel like I'm a handyman/maid/chef/mistress not a wife.

All these guys can be giving, thoughtful and supporting, but sometimes they just don't think about what they are doing. And yes, they all want to do things their way, especially my husband.

I can understand your feelings about SF. After D-day I had a rough time also. Almost every time it came to SF - I thought about the two of them together - I was so angry and disgusted - it was so hard to concentrate on what I was doing. All I kept picturing was them doing the same thing. Sometimes he would see the look on my face and knew what I was thinking and he stopped what he was doing. Sometimes I would cry right in the middle - it was very difficult for me. Other times I just wanted him so bad. I can still picture the two of them together - it got permanently imprinted in my mind. I'll always remember her ugly face and big nose. Just the thought of him kissing her, YUK!!! Gross!!! We all have these thoughts - you are not alone.

Well, got to go. Talk to you all later.

Hi ladies,

Glad to see everyone is doing well.

CSJ, We are with you in spirit re the SF thing. It is a struggle to get through it in the beginning. In my case, my H has done some 'new' things--and of course I know where he got the ideas from...I don't ask...he knows that I know...I just try to enjoy it and put her out of my mind as best as possible. I try to think that I am the one that he chose, I am with him now, not her. It will get easier...It's good that you are planning a trip so that will allow you some more freedom to be sexy with him. Just know that you are not alone in this. We have all been there...

Yes, men are stubborn and selfish...no getting around that...CSJ, my H never told me to go to the gym, but he would tell me, I'm not stopping you from going out...You can go out if you want....Well, first of all, who am I going to go out with? I don't have any real close friends here. One Friday night last spring, my home daycare was having a pizza party--she does this every once in a while and the kids can stay and have a party and we pick them up around 9. So I had from 5 - 9 pm free to do whatever I wanted. My H of course, had to go to work that night so he couldn't do anything with me...I had no idea what to do with myself==how pathetic is that? I didn't want to go to the movies by myself...so I ended up going shopping in a town that I don't usually get over to==lots of stores...I tried on bras...I ate dinner at Wendys...real exciting, right? So, when I got home w/ the kids and my H was getting ready for work, he asked what I did and I told him. He had the nerve to question this, and ask if I was seeing someone. He did this from time to time during his A. He has always said, just tell me if you are attracted to someone else...I always say, where would I meet anyone? I don't go anywhere!! He did this to me last night. He is still depressed, in this zone that I can't reach him in. So I tell him how I have to go to dinner at my boss's house one night next week, with the rest of the Sales dept. He says, are you cheating on me? Have you found someone else? I said no. He said, you have every reason to do it, you know? I said, I know I have every reason in the world to do it, but I won't. I wouldn't want you to go through that pain. You are going through enough now and so am I...He didn't say anything else. What could he say??

F&L, Your fight about the apple sounds like something we would argue about...stupid little things bother my H...he will argue that his way is the right way...But then he does something BIG and it's no big deal..

F&L and CSJ, My H is the same way...he will sit and watch tv while I am on my feet all night long...I am lucky to sit down and eat sometimes...Same thing in the morning...I am running around to get the kids ready, etc and he will just sit there, maybe hold the baby, but does he think to get her dressed, no? On his days off last year, he would get up w/ us early and then say he was going to the gym. He would walk out the door in the midst of all of this chaos that I was trying to get everyone ready. I would say, what's the hurry? You can't wait 15 minutes to help me get the kids in the car...Now I know the hurry was to get up to OW to meet her when she got off work. So many times this happened...

When I lived in NYC, I saw some stars too. Like F&L said, they are all over..the biggest one was my friends and I were eating in a Japanese restaurant, and Christopher Reeve was in a booth near us with a woman. This was way before his accident..It may have even been Dana Reeve.. No one went up to him,, but when they got up to leave, the whole restaurant fell silent.

I also saw Andy Warhol in Bloomingdales, Ron Howard sat behind me on the commuter train to CT (he lives in Greenwich CT), saw Rod Stewart on the street...That's all I can remember now...

When is Grey's Anatomy on? I don't get to watch many tv shows for myself...Usually the only ones I can watch are on at 10 and sometimes I'm too tired to stay up and watch them.

Have a great day ladies!

MF,

Boy, MamaFish, you sound like me and your husband sounds like mine. I'm the same way don't have any friends near by - that's cause I used to go to work and come home and go to sleep. No one around here is that friendly. All the "soccer moms kind of "click" together - I don't really know any of them. I can't really relate to them anyway - they all go to the gyms, have lunch together, get their nails/hair done, have coffee at Starbucks and gossip. I'm not into that - so I never really got to know them.

I used to go out once in a while too....to a tupperware party or somekind of stupid house part....whipeee....!

When I used to work and my husband would have a day off - he would wait for me to get home to cook dinner - he couldn't have it waiting for me on the table. Then he would still do the same thing, watch tv and play video games. Even if he was on vacation and I wasn't - I'd still have the same routine.

I tell you one thing, if we lived in the same area - I could tell you and I would have a ball.

Talk to you later.

F&L,

We sure do sound alike. I am close to a couple women here at work, but not enough to share any of this...Plus they are single, no kids, they don't live nearby...they have their own lives. At 5, they are out the door to Happy Hour, or whatever... I have a friend in town who I used to work with, and we were pregnant with our sons at the same time. Now our sons are in the same class, and in soccer together. So I talk to her at soccer. But she is one of the soccer moms in town, so our lives are really different now. She went back to work after having her son, but they gave her a lower position, and made it tough for her so she quit...She is now a SAHM, which is fine, but hard for us to get together. She has 2 kids now, and her time is with her H and kids at night and on the weekends, same as mine. She holds those kinds of parties too. I haven't even carved out time to go to any of those.

I guess you could say my life has been my kids...I know that I wouldn't have made it through without them...I would rather be with them than anyone else...But it would be nice to have a friend to go out with from time to time. It's just so hard to keep in touch w/ people these days...If I have time to myself to go shopping, I end up buying stuff for the kids, or my H, not myself...

I am on the phone at work most of the day, so the last thing I want to do when I get home is talk on the phone. So I don't talk to my long distance friends much either... I am really bad about staying in touch like that. Email is the easiest way for me.

Well, gotta get back to work. Here it is raining again. My Son was so upset that Tball was cancelled because of the rain last night. I was glad..it was so cold out...

My H trusts me, but then I think he doesn't trust me either. I know that if I were to have an A, it would probably be an EA, because he doesn't really listen to me. Conversation is not one of his Top ENs, but it is for me...At least I am not carrying around guilt for having a revenge A, or whatever you call it. I have read too much on MB to ever have an A...

My husband always trusted me completely, until he had his affair - he felt guilty about what he did, so at that time he didn't trust me - can you believe that? I guess he thought if he could do it - so can I. He even thought I might be getting together with old boyfriends The last thing on my mind at that point was to have an affair or have sex with someone.

Well, got to go back outside. It’s getting cloudy – no rain here yet.

Hi F&L,
I came back to see if you posted your story and you did not disappoint...that is quite a story...I think my H knows that I would not cheat but asks me just to make sure. I think you're right about him feeling guilty to check up on me. Maybe he knew he wasn't treating me right, was ignoring me, and figured maybe I was seeing someone else also. And of course, he couldn't tell me that he was, so that's why he would ask me.

I know what you mean about having an A being the last thing on your mind...I still feel that way. I have enough stress in my life right now. Why would I want to complicate it more? Of course, he thinks I love drama though, so I guess that's why. LOL. That is so NOT me...but whatever!

It's pouring rain out right now...I got soaked going out to get gas just now. We pay $2.99 around here. How about you guys? NJ is usually much cheaper, but then you can't have self serve there. This was self serve. I never pay for full service.

Ciao for now!

Afternoon everyone!

Thanks so much for coming to my pity party yesterday. I don't know why that is the one trigger that throws me for a loop, when I really feel like I am doing so much better with everything else. But I kept thinking about it yesterday, and was crying on and off all day. Pretty pathetic, right? But I know I need to focus on this and fix it--so I am so grateful to you all for giving me the kick in the butt I need right now.

But it does make me feel a bit silly--I mean you all have been through the very same thing, and got through it and are able to be intimate with your H's--so what is my deal, anyway? I don't know why I feel so terrified/hurt/angry/devestated/frozen on this point. But I am working on it, I promise.

So to get the ball rolling, I sneaked away for a bit this morning and got my manicure, and ordered a little PJ set from Victoria's Secret that I was looking at. And a new swimsuit so I can look cute by the pool--which is silly because I really can't sunbathe because my complextion is soooooo fair that I get sunburned even thinking about it. I really should become Muslim so I can wear a burka.

But Grey's Anatomy is on at 9pm Sunday nights (probably 10 pm eastern time), so if you get a chance to watch it, see if you like it. My whole office does, and then Monday morning we walk in the door saying, "did you see the part where . . ." My boss probably thinks we are the most ridiculous things ever. Luckily he is very patient and sort-of a fatherly-type guy to the rest of us (he is the only male--surrounded by 3 women). But he is such a work-aholic, straight-laced guy I don't think he even watches tv. We were laughing about the "soup nazi" episode of Seinfeld once and he said "What's Seinfeld?" Does this man live in a cave??? But so nice--I am very lucky to have such a kind, flexible boss.

Anyhow, I hope everyone is having a good day. I'll check back later!

-C.

F&L,

I forgot to ask...is your H a Giants or Jets fan? I'm thinking Jets because you are in NJ. My H is a Giants fan, and a Cowboys fan...

Oh, and on the trusting H thing . . .

I don't think my H has ever thought about not trusting me. He's never appeared jealous at all. Maybe it's because he knows that there is no way I could schedule in an A into my life. My primary social thing is work, which is probably a sad commentary on my life. But I get along really well with the 2 other gals in my office--we chit chat and have lunch, whatever. And when I go home I just want to be with my kids. I've been invited to those "parties" too (the new trend out here is the jewelry parties) but I have no desire to go. I just want to curl up with my girls and read stories.

I used to have a friend I would meet for a movie once in a while, and it was really nice because she has 2 little girls the same age as mine, so we would have family dinner parties, taking turns at eachother's houses, and then the adults could visit while the kids played. But my H got sort-of down on these parties during his A (surprise, surprise), and my friend got a new job with a business that requires her to travel ALOT. I would HATE that--she has to be away from her kids quite a bit. And it became so hard to find a time to meet with her. So we have fallen out of touch. So now my best girlfriend is the one I went to Vegas with--and she lives in CA so we don't get to see eachother very much. Just e-mail.

I think my focus on the kids did contribute to what happened with my H--I think he felt left out or whatever. But that whole thing seems like such a pathetic excuse. I never excluded him from being a parent--he CHOSE to go off and do his own thing. He could have been a more invovled dad if he had wanted to.

Hi C,

Good for you on the manicure and your new pjs and bathing suit...You are heading in the right direction.

As for the SF issue, there is nothing wrong with you. If my H was as patient as yours, I may have been sitting in your shoes right now....but given that his whole reason for the A was because I was not giving him enough SF, THAT became the focus for me...Since he has steadfastly stood by the story that if he had been getting enough, he wouldn't have strayed...I had to give in to it to show him and myself that I did enjoy sex and could be every bit as sexy as OW...
Don't feel silly at all...Believe me, I don't discuss sex with ANYONE, except you gals...never was the kiss and tell type...CSJ, I even started wearing Thongs after DDay...That was new for me...LOL...

I love Seinfeld but don't watch it often. But I know all the episodes...

My office likes 24...they are all wild for it...not me...not at all...no one watches Greys Anatomy here.

Jewelry parties are coming around here. I'm with you though...I'm a homebody at heart, but that doesn't mean that I don't like to go out. I don't know if my H felt left out of me doing stuff w/ the kids or not, but I agree, that was his decision. You know he didn't even go to our son's preschool graduation party because he had to work..turns out that was one of the nights they both called out of work...I used to plan to do stuff w/ the kids (go to McDonalds, the playground, ice cream place) on Friday nights to give me and the kids something to look forward to in the summertime. I HATED that he worked nights/weekends. He just took advantage of the fact that I would do this with them. It was his choice not to be home..

Oh, and I don't think focusing on the kids is a bad thing. It's just that the H tends to think he is at the bottom of the list--at least according to Harley. This is how my H felt...like I didn't have time for him...Of course I was so tired from doing all the other stuff, that I was too tired for him...

And my social life is work too... I go from work to home and back again...Work is the only place that I actually get time to myself!

Okie, I'll bite. I'm not a gal, but I wanna ask a question. In your opinions as "gals", given my current sitch, when do you YOU all think SF will become available for me? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi All,

CSJ: Good for you. It will come when you're ready. Don't be too hard on yourself. I forgot, when are you going? I get burned easily too - my family makes fun of me, that I am so pale. In the winter my kids and husband ask me,"why are you so pale"?...duh!...a have pale skin!!! In the summer I always get sunburned on my nose - I look like a drunk!

I more or less a home body too - my family is my first priority. I don't have any social life either. My husband doesn't really either. Everything is family orientated.

Drexxell....I see we have someone new...I see by your bio that D-Day was 3/29/06...wow...that's only a little over a month ago. You've got a long way to go. I also see that you cheated on her previously? Am I right? Did she stop seeing the OM? As I guess you have read, a lot depends on the person and their situation. We have all had our difficulties in this area.

My recovery was hastened because my husband worked for the OW. If you can give us some more details maybe we can help. We might gripe about men sometimes, but we have all been hurt.

Talk to you tomorrow.

Prolly easier on everyone involved to just take a look at my threads if you have the time. "I need a translator" and "Am I nuts?" I'll be happy to answer any questions after that.

Yes, I'm a FWH, but it's a little more complicated than that. I was literally a vomitas mess afterward and confessed immediately after I got home, to which she replied with her own confession. All this 10 years ago. We decided on amnesty instead of help.

As far as I know, WW has stopped seeing the other men. No, that's not a typo. I suppose I ought to mention that I'm a member of the OC club too. Just found that out less than a week after D-Day. DS6 will always be mine though. He's got my name and my name is on the birth certificate. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Who cares about blood types, right?