Morning everyone!

I have a meeting in a minute, so I thought I would quickly bump this up to get the morning started.

I've not heard the "Tequilla" song, Drex. Which surprises me because my H is a big country music fan so I heard LOTS of country music on our road trip. You realize now that we're all going to try and hear that song just so we can have a good laugh!

S&C--I don't know if you're checking in today or not, but we are thinking of you. Keep your spirits up, okay? It's a struggle every day, but we all know it's worth it.

Hope everyone is having a good day so far! I'll check back later.

-C.

Drexxel,
I have not yet had the "it's the Newports or me.." talk with my H...he's still down in the dumps so I will hold off on that for the moment.

How was your dancing/night out with your wife? I hope you had a good time...I'm sure that you did. I have also not heard of this Tequila song... don't listen to country music much...a typical New England Yankee, I guess...My H did something similar a few months ago. We had a huge fight as I was getting ready to leave for work. When I got to work, my voicemail light was flashing on my phone...It was from my H...He had put the phone up to the radio to a Billy Joel song, "Keeping the Faith"...Turned my whole day around. This is what he always tells me...keep the faith...

CSJ,
Watched Big Love last night...getting hooked on it now...

Have a great day everyone!

MF-

That show is sort-of addictive, isn't it? Every week (after Sopranos--one of H's fav's) we say "let's watch something else tonight" but then just sit there, glued. And it's really been interfering with my "Desparate Housewives" routine!

-C.

Hi C,

I don't watch DH, but I know you and F&L do...We watch Family Guy on Sundays...

But I found out Big Love is rerun on Tuesday at 11:00...didn't mean to stay up until midnight, but got caught up...and now Margene is pregnant OMG and last week, I thought maybe she'd be leaving...

Well, last night was kind of interesting. My beautiful wife and I own a property that we were having some issues with. We had a bet going and she lost the bet. So, she owed me a milkshake. That was the wager. LOL Anyways, I told her I would settle for an ice cream instead. We go to the Ben and Jerry's and they were CLOSED!!! OMG

So, we back track a little and go to the Marble Slab (Think Cold Stone for those of you who don't know what Marble Slab is) BUT, my charming wife has "forgotten" her dinero, sooo, I end up paying. She still owes me my milkshake. LOL

Eventually, we end up at this little bar where we had planned on going, but the DJ/Karaoke guy is running late. We decided if he wasn't there and set up by 10 that we would just go home. He gets there at like 9:45 and wasn't set up by 10, so we left. We had an absolutely fabulous conversation in the car about burning a CD that we could just play at home, scoot the furniture out of the way and utilize the wood floor that I put in. LOL

We talked about practice dancing in our socks so when we went real dancing with our boots on, our feet would be more sensitive to where we were stepping. We didn't actually dance last night, but what we accomplished with conversation was very important. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm not hearing anything else about smells!!! What are they? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Best wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

MF-

I missed last week's "Big Love" as we were on the road, and so this is the first I've heard that Margene is preggers! I am going to have to try and catch a re-run now! I leave town for one week and look what happens . . .

Drex-

I am thinking about smells . . . (that sounds funny out of context <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) For me, I have always loved the smell of coffee because it reminds me of my grandma's house. But H, I don't know . . . I've not ever asked him about that. I am thinking it's got to be a food smell, though. His favorite dinner, or his favorite cookies, that always gets him excited. (I don't imagine that they make a "mashed potato" or "prime rib" scented candle, though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) He's also really big with being outdoors--loves being in the mountains. So that type of smell might really connect for him also. I'll have to give that a try . . .

-C.

Hi Drexxel,

It's the little things that mean alot...I think you accomplished MUCH MUCH more last night by talking than by dancing. Although it didn't meet your EN for Touch...:) You are showing your W that you can have fun, good conversations, etc...very good!

As for smells, same as CSJ, I have not asked H but I'm thinking maybe chocolate chip cookies for my H, since he loves when I bake them. For me, I'm not really sure...he doesn't wear cologne so that's not it...I do like the smell of lavender, or the ocean...Maybe the ocean for both of us, now that I think of it. CSJ, maybe a Pine or Forest candle for your H would do the trick for outdoors.

CSJ,
As for Big Love, I hope I didn't spoil anything for you. I watched it last night, and at the end, Margene came downstairs and announced it to the other wives and the kids...So I think this is the latest episode. Last week's episode was when Barb's sister came over and took her kids to visit their grandmother (Barb's mother), who basically disowned her when she got married to Bill, I guess...And this was when one of the older girls got baptised in the pool in the backyard, and Margene had Bill baptise her also, to show that she is committed to the family.

MF- No, you didn't spoil it at all. In fact, it hadn't really occurred to me that I had missed Sunday's episode! We were in El Paso that night and I wasn't really connecting that it was our "Sopranos/Big Love" night. I would have watched this Sunday and thought, "Hey--when did this happen?!?!"

And I think you're right about a pine candle. That would be good and "manly."

Drex- I agree with MF that your talk probably earned you more Love Bank deposits that anything else. Most women (including myself) find a good talk like that so meaningful. That's probably just what she needed to re-connect with you emotionally. I love that when my H and I just talk. We got a lot of that accomplished in the car on our road trip.

Shout out to HF and F&L--how y'all doing today? Hope all is well . . .

-C.

Hi CSJ,

I'm big on conversation too. My H is more to the point...Why talk just to talk ? is more of his mantra...No surprise when he scored that low on his EN list. He is perfectly happy to just sit in silence.

Pine also reminds me of Christmas because of the tree....

Well I'm getting ready to leave here in a little while. We may stop and get a pizza on the way home tonight. Either that or stop at the store and pick up some catfish for my H to fry tonight...Drexx, he's from VA Beach and is a big seafood fan...Makes the best crabcakes ever!

Have a good night y'all!

When we did the ENQ, conversation was one of her needs. I'm all over that. There were no complaints, no ways to improve, according to her. She was "very satisfied" with all aspects of that EN. I did pretty well on her others, but conversation was in her top 5 and I've been nailing that for the entire time we've been married. Working on the others now. We've agreed to take the ENQ every couple of months to reevaluate where we are.

You're right. I have a need for physical touch. I didn't get a lot of that as a kid and now it's manifesting itself. I won't get into a lot of that right now, but my wife is getting better about it. I can pretty much give her all the physical attention I want to. That's another thing she said I was all over in the ENQ, though that's not in her top 5. She did state it was one of the reasons she fell in love with me in the first place.

Here's where the problem lies. SF is in the top 5 for both of us. Sooo, what do we do?

Drex-

I noticed on a thread written for WW's that some of them had a hard time getting intimacy with their BS's started again--and I'm sure your W is experiencing many of their same feelings. I didn't really read much, but what I gathered was it was partly guilt-based, and partly that they just weren't "feeling it." Which I think is purely a function of the way women are wired. They've got to have that emotional connection before they can get the fire going. Generalization, I know, but seems to be true for the most part. So if that's part of your W's hang-up, I think you are really laying some terrific groundwork! You've had a series of really good connections with her lately: dancing, good conversation . . .

I say just keep doing what your doing, and to borrow a phrase from a pretty wise individual, keep "salting the oats." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Like maybe you should plan a special date for this weekend--something really romantic. Make her an invitation for a trip--a fake plane ticket to Paris--a menu of an exotic French meal--whatever theme you think will catch her mood. Just something to get some atmosphere started, you know? That will give her several days to get the mood ready. You could even loose the kids for the night to make it extra-special . . .

-C.

Post deleted by Drexxell

I want to apologize for that last vent for anyone who even read it. I'm going to delete it.

Issues from my childhood are haunting me, I suppose. My father was an incredibly abusive SOB. That, in and of itself, is bad enough. But when the childs main love language is physical touch or one of their top five, and in my case, most important EN is affection, that kind of childhood does a huge amount of emotional trauma.

Physical touch or affection is, to me, such an intense measure of personal self worth. A single touch can elevate me to highs above all else and the withholding of a touch can leave me feeling repulsive and rejected on all levels. Normally, I dealt with it ok, but now I'm just emotionally drained.

I told my precious wife on Sunday just how deeply my need for physical touch was and that I was starving for it. It's one thing when we go dancing and I can embrace her. It's something completely different when SHE reaches for MY hand.

So, Sunday night there was SF. It was beautiful and happened out of love and was just right on all the levels it needed to be right on. Monday was her down day and she recanted Sunday night on an emotional level. She said she didn't want it leading to expectations that things were going to go back to normal. Last night, I guess it all just caved in on me. I felt like Sunday wasn't good enough. Then I felt like "I" wasn't good enough.

Last night wasn't even about SF. I was starving to be touched. Something... anything... Well, of course, she was asleep. So, I just cuddled her, held her sleeping little hand, placed kisses on her sleeping little shoulder, trying to find some small comfort in giving her what I so desperately needed. The comfort never came. By 3am or so, I literally felt devastated.

I feel so bad and so selfish because she does lots of things to make me feel good. Like, when I made breakfast for dinner, everyone was eating the bacon and eggs while I made the pancakes and she didn't want my eggs to get cold, so she got up and fed me my eggs while I made the pancakes. In that moment, I felt princely. Now here I am all weepy because she won't reach for my hand.

Through blinding tears I explained to her this morning how I felt when she touched me and when she didn't. I explained again how important touch was to me. I asked her what I had to do to earn her touch and she said she didn't know. Eventually, she took my hand and held me and caressed my back and wiped my tears and I couldn't appreciate it because I was just hurt and angry.

Well, she had to go to work, so here I am, wallowing.

CSJ - I'm certain she's dealing with a lot of guilt. The only reason she gives, though, is not wanting to create expectations. She's in an avoidance/avoidance conflict, if you know what that is.

This weekend, we've got stuff planned. More dancing on Friday night, saturday just kind of a lounge day, Sunday she said she "might" go to church with the kids and I. We'll see about that. Monday is her b-day, which just happens to mark the 2 month anniversary of D-Day. Not sure how that will turn out, but we've got stuff planned for that too.

I guess I'll stop making everyone's morning bad now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Have a great day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey everyone
Just wanted to let you all know I am alive. I have been sooooo busy but will check back in later. Just skimmed through but seems everyone is doing well. Drex you are stronger than you think and are in my thoughts. Just keep being you she will come around.

Talk with you all soon.
HF

Drex,

I didn't read your previous post. I don't really get on her too much at night. I'm usually here after my daughter goes to school then I'm off to do other stuff. But, it's ok to get angry and it's ok to vent. In the beginning, I used to get so angry I just wanted to slap the crap out of my husband -wanted to scream at the top of my lungs. I have that hot Hungarian blood running thru my veins.

As the months go by, things will get calmer and more normal - but it's not easy - you will have so many ups and downs - happy, sad, depressed, tears, angry - round and round. We all need that emotional support/comfort at this traumatic time - but sometimes our spouses forget this. They don't mean to do this - but they do - without realizing it and we're left hanging.

I know there's always two sides to a story......but I can't image what woman would cheat on you? You write so beautifully and how you talk about your wife! Any woman would love to be treated like this and have things said to her like you do. And you cook and iron!!!!!

2 months is nothing - you've got a long way to go. My husband and I were still fighting like "cats and dogs" at 6 months. Yes, I know you're not supposed to do that - but not everything works the way it's supposed to. In my case, I was doing all the work to rebuild the marriage - in my husband's case he was fighting me all the way. Just think of Monday as her birthday, not D-Day anniversary.

Just keep treating her nice, you do that well. Have fun dancing on Friday - you know I love to dance. Can't wait for the disco concert on June 10 - I'm going to dance my butt off with my oldest daughter - she's a "chip off the old block".

Take care,

Hi Drexxel,

{{{{{HUGS}}}}} (I don't know if I did that right!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I hope you are having a better morning now. I think what you are going through is "normal"...Your W doesn't want you to create expectations--I can understand this. From my perspective, it was the opposite situation. My H wanted to have SF with me to show his love for me...I didn't want to do it--was not ready for it...After it happened and it was wonderful, I felt the rollercoaster go down again...Like, okay, now he thinks, we did it so everything is back to normal because we did it. Maybe that is how she is feeling...Like you are thinking that she is over the A and now will be up for SF like before, etc...

What CSJ says about women being wired differently is true...but honestly I think you are very intuitively meeting her ENs for conversation and affection all day long...You already are "salting the oats"...What happened on Sunday night happened because it had to happen. No planning was involved, it was just a natural course of events. Perhaps it took your wife by surprise. She may have had no intentions of having SF and then it happened. She tried to rewrite history as the WS do, by recanting it.

It's kind of like she's thinking, once you do it, you can't go back...Think back to when you were with a new girlfriend or in High school...You are thinking about when you are going to have SF with this person...enjoying the time with them but also wanting SF. Once you actually do it, you tend to have SF more often, and not do other things. Maybe she is concerned that now that you have done it, you will stop doing these other things (dancing, etc)...

Drex, I really feel for you right now. You are on a roller coaster and it truly sucks. The plight of the BS is that we have to be the ones to give, especially in the beginning when the WS is in withdrawal...She is DEEP in withdrawal. You are so early in this process...Don't expect too much of her now...Focus on you and the kids as you have been doing...Keep at it...

She is making small steps==hugging you and taking your hand...don't push her for more before she is ready..Hang in there.

Not having ENs met is unfortunately what brought most of us together on this board in the first place. I can't imagine that if I feel this badly after not having this need met for 2 months what's it's going to feel like in 6 months or a year. Maybe I'll just go numb and not have to feel any of it.

I understand that my sweet wife has to sort through her own issues to be happy, but dad gum it, I have to be happy too and touching myself ain't gonna cut the mustard! Ho hum. I hear the set of Winnie the Pooh is looking for a voice over artist for Eore. How does this sound? "I guess I don't need a tail anyway."

Drex,

Eeyore, huh? I was thinking you were more like Tigger...Lots of energy...:) I don't think any of us read your late night post, so don't worry about that.

Everyone has their Eeyore days....Believe me we all have them...You are not alone...

The ironic thing about the marriage after DDay is that the BS is trying to meet all the WS's ENs with a passion. You think, well now that I am meeting his/her ENs, he/she will meet mine too...Unfortunately it doesn't always happen that way. I know that it didn't for me...I was the one trying to meet his ENs.. He said SF and Affection were lacking, so that's what I focused on--Never rejected him for SF after DDay...Kissed him hello/goodbye..more hugs for no reason...touched him when walking by...all these little things I did...And you know what, if I didn't make the first move, I got nothing in return. When he would leave, he wouldn't kiss me goodbye...No hugs for no reason...Very affectionate w/ the kids--never lets them leave without a kiss...While I stand there waiting, sometimes get a kiss, most of the times not, even now...

And my H was not in deep withdrawal as your W is...I think he was more emotionally involved than he admits, but still not as much as your W. Even SF was lacking for a few weeks--he had NO interest at all. This, from a man who says the only reason he had an A was for SF...This doesn't make sense does it?!? He could do it with OW all the time, but with me, no. The only explanation is guilt, shame, I guess. I don't understand it still.

Reread SAA...Harley says, give it about 6 wks after NC for withdrawal to fade away. That's after NC, NOT after DDay...You are just at the beginning, Drex...

You have to give her time and space...It's not fair, by a long shot. My H talked alot about how he was willing to do anything to rebuild our M, but actions speak louder than words and he still has not come forward to try to meet my ENs...It's something about the WS that I will never understand...

You will get through this...I know that you will....

I'll check back later...

Yes, I have read and studied the "Harley 4" collection. Sometimes when you're caught up in your emotions, you really can't see past the "right now" of your situation. At least it's that way for me. This happens to me every now and again. About 12-15 hours of depression then several days of doing just fine and upbeat. Doc offered ADs, but I still don't want them.

We've been kind of e-mailing back and forth this morning. She's occupied with work stuff at the moment and is not at her desk. I sent her an e-mail, very supportive, loving, love letter kind of thing. In the off chance that something happened when I left to take care of things today, I didn't want the last thing we talked about to be something negative.

I've got IC in about 90 minutes and we've got MC tonight. I'll make it through the day. One foot in front of the other. Breathe in, breathe out.

You're right. It doesn't seem fair in the least. I've got a huge sense of entitlement going on. Hopefully, I can shelf that because I believe it will just get in the way.

It's funny, when I'm not in my 12-15 hours of depression per week, I can sit and psychoanalize myself just fine. The depression really clouds my thinking to the point where I get down right selfish. It seriously turns into a "What about me?" party. One thing I've always been able to do since this started was to choose my words very carefully. While my message might not always be crystal clear, I have never said anything that I've had to take back.

My lovable wife said she would call me around 3 this afternoon. I'll be better able to judge how she's doing then. On a positive note, Sunday was the first time that she's kissed me since D-Day. There hasn't been a day go by since Sunday that we haven't kissed and hugged when she went to work, got home or when we go to bed. And sometimes just for no other reason than I want to. I don't think she's as emotionally detached from Sunday as she leads on. It really was beautiful and powerful. She had told me earlier in the day Sunday that she wouldn't do SF unless it was out of love. I asked her before we started SF, "Is this out of love?" She replied, "It has to be."

She still hasn't said ILY. And really, that doesn't bother me as much as not having the physical touch EN filled, although words of affirmation are certainly important to me. I love my wife so much... It's very difficult sometimes when it's not reciprocated. I know I'm not saying aything new, but I really hurt in my heart when I feel like I'm the only one working on reconciliation. When she says things like, "I can't give you what I don't have." (in reference to physical affection) it just tears me up inside and I have to put on a clown face and internalize until I get to a place where I can let go.

Well, I'm going to get going. Have a couple things to accomplish before I head out the door. Thanks for the shoulders. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Morning all!

I am thinking Drex is more like a Tigger too--I know a lot of Eeyores, and they are not nearly as entertaining. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Seriously though, hang in there! You have had some amazing success so far, so allow yourself to be encouraged about that. Take a look in the mirror and recognize that you are tackling one of life's greatest challenges with grace and style. Part of this journey is rediscovering ourselves as well as our marriages. There are so many ups and downs on this thing that we all have plenty of bad days. And they will be mixed in with some good ones, too. You are still very early on in this process, and that makes it tough. Really, we all are! Dr. H says it takes 2 YEARS to recover! So we all need to pace ourselves. That's one nice thing about this place--we can all take turns helping eachother out during the bad times.

One "silver lining" to being the clueless BS (me) is that we got through the fogged-out stuff and the withdrawl without my ever recognizing what it was. By the time I found out about the A, my H was very apologetic and ready to show some effort here and there. Early on he was VERY attentive--even left me a love note one morning, and would call during the day to see how I was doing. He has NEVER done these things before. So that gave me a little shot in the arm at first. But that quickly faded, and now he wants to just go one like everything was before. Forget all about it . . . So you see, this two steps forward and one step back is totally normal. We are all right there, too.

And it's NOT fair! We worry so much about meeting the WW's needs, all the while our own go on neglected. The BS gets saddled with all the work of rebuilding what someone else broke. Not fair. But, as an old friend of mine used to say, "Life isn't Fair. Fair is where you go to see the pigs."

But keep in mind that Dr. H suggests a time limit on some of this stuff. It's not expected that the BS should become a doormat. I told myself from the very beginning that I would give my marriage a chance, and I would put in 100% from my end for one year. I will not cut and run, even when I feel like I want to. I will stick it out, and then after a year ask myself if there is enough progress to justify staying. And I am not suggesting that a year is the magic number for everyone--but for me that seemed like a fair enough time to evaluate where we are. We don't need to be "recovered" by then--just to a point where I can see that I am not hurting myself and my kids by staying in a marriage that is irrevocably harmed.

So my point here (yes, there is one) is that you need to give yourself some time. You will continue to hurt--you will continue to have some really bad days. You can't expect for this thing to be healed right away. What you CAN expect is to keep moving forward, little by little. And I think you are doing a great job!

Keep up the good fight, everyone!

-C.