I just printed out a post I found about 'fear' that sums me up to a T. I am going to read that all day today, whenever I get the chance.

I am going out with my mum and nan and my 3 children today. For a picnic to Mother Mary McKillops House. I know it has a beautiful chapel and I will be in there praying and praying.

So much of what i have read on MB this last 48hrs in particular makes so much sense but is so scary. i read the post about how it is useless going to a MC if he is still in the A - and he is well and truly seeings as he is staying there until Sunday when we take the kids out together, and then on Sunday night is telling me if he will prefer the city to our home rather than tooing and froing.

ANyway _ I have posted that before (cept I lose where I post things - sorry!)

This following questions is the one I really need help with tomorrow. Please, all you amazing people out there, help me with my Plan A - help me NOT be a doormat!!

>>>>> My H is definately fence sitting. He told me he will decide on Sunday whether he is going to stay in the city (with her) or come home (to me and his 3 young childnre). I have a strong feeling he will choose her because I got msg from him at lunchtime yesterday (im trying not to communicate with him as normal sms - which is always what he wants to do) saying how he had the best restful sleep for a v long time and that yes, he missed the kids not jumping on the bed in the morning (not me ) but that he really really needed the rest.

That to me is 'getting me ready' for the ultimate comment tomorrow afternoon.

I need help PLEASE ANYONE with how to indentify by boundarires. How not to be a doormat. With regard to exposure. His family and my family and his workfriends and our friends know,a nd he still goes to her. He even said to teh psych it's not really the sex with her, just the escape from reality. SO HE KNOWS IT>

But someone,please help me with how to be strong tomorrow. PPLEASE. What do I say to him? There are days that it was HIS JOB to pick up the kids from sport/school because I am at work, do I find someone else to do that or let him still do it and be nice and serene when I do see him.

I have told him I do love him and that I want this to work. BUt it can't work like this. I told him that in a letter on Wednesday night.

I dont know how to confront him about issues but do it with reverse babble?

We are seeing a MC, but can't get back in until 1st May unless there is a cancellation.

Please someone explain Nuclear exposure, reverse babble, serene confrontation at every opportunity

Thankyou,

zuj

Juzzie,
One of the biggest components of Plan A is working on yourself and eleiminated all LB'S and DJ's.
Right now, it seeems as if you are HANGING on his every word. That would be a mistake, as he is no longer the core of your sanity. Let's get to work on Juzzie and not be so tagged to what WH thinks and does.
He is in the middle of an A fog and that is not where you want to be. YOU are the sane one here, not him!
Most people here are correct, in that, MC is pretty useless while the A continues. Most MC's do not want to address this and that is their fatal mistake in MC. Only those C's who TRULY understand the dynamics of an A can be any help to you.
In the book, "Not Just Friends", by Dr. Shirlee Glass, she states that 41% of all therapists recomend not telling the BS what has happened in their M. To me, that said it all. You've only got a 50/50 chance of finding a good therapist, and if the A is on going, your H will probably lie his A$$ off to protect himself from any negative critisism.
I strongly urge you to read up on EXACTLY what Plan A is and is not. This will help you tremendously. You seem to me to be floudering in some kind of limbo, where you don't have a clue what should do next. I don't mean this disrespectively in any way, but I sence you need help and a firm, positive, plan.
I'm hoping the real calvary will arrive very soon, so be patient, they will arrive. I'm not the best to be giving advise. Way too many others that can do a better job of that.
All blessings,
Jerry

Try not to start alot of threads, that makes it hard for people to track your story. Stick with one and update your feelings on it regularly and it will stay up on the first page. I just want to be able to keep track of you, because I want you to get help from the Veteran's on this site. Hope you read my post on your other thread. I am new here, but I hope I can give you some hope that it is not over yet and you still have a chance. Listen to these guy's, it just might save your M. I am a BS myself and am still trying to rebuild M

God Bless

Juzzie, it is so hard to reason with a person who is in the throes of an A. Your WH knows how wrong he is. HE KNOWS IT but at the moment, he's so infatuated with the OW that he is willing to risk everything for a fix.

On Sunday, look your best, don't cry, don't shout, and just try to be as composed as possible. Regardless of his choice, let him see that the woman he is possibly walking away from is strong and dignified. Most likely the OW is possessive and needy, making him feel important and desired. Be a contrast. Let him know you need him but will survive without him.

Just in case he decides to go to OW (a big likelihood but don't expect it to last), why not have a bag packed ready for him. Lightly spray the contents of the bag with your favourite perfume and inbetween each layer, put a lovely family photo, or a child's drawing.

Good luck Juzzie but mostly be calm and strong. TT

Tuck, loooove your idea about the packed bag <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My prayers are with you Juzzie, I've been wondering about you since reading your first posts. I'm new to this too, so no great advice except for you to get your strength from the One who can truly give it...I will have faith that your marriage can be reborn on Easter just as our Savior.

Thankyou people! I am so insane and this board is helping so.

Im so sorry for chopping and changing threads. I can't remember where I posted what!

Shining Through - you are exactly right, I am hanging on his every word. I know it's wrong to, but i still do. I am now very worried about the MC and if it's gonna work. I did mention at our first session there about 'ruth' and this MC does come highly recommended. So I can only hope that he will deal with the A properly. Although, as Ive posted before - gotta wait until May 1st until we see him again. So much can have happened by then <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Tuck - I too do believe he will go to her place. Good thinking about the bag, will make me very sad to do tho <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I am going to have the best day with the kids and him at the Easter Show that I possibly can. Lots of love and fun and family stuff and then, at the end of the night, well, I guess that's when it will all roll out. What makes me sad even now is knowing that there'll be no touching on Sunday. You know - just holding hands whilst the kids are runnign in front, or leaning on each other whilst watching the stuff in the arena. I miss all that so much.

Beauty, I am going to try and find my other thread so I can see your message! I am having trouble keeping track of the board.

24give- oh how I wish that i could have that miracle Easter Day! Oh, my heart is so wishing that.

He has been msging me again today. About walks he has gone on to clear his head. About how he had a bad night last night and couldn't sleep, about how he just saw two movie stars walking round the city (cause that's the area he is staying in) I have been writing back a bit - I couldn't help myself.Then half an hour ago an I wrote to him and told him that Im trying not to use it as a guilt trip and Im trying to 'give him his space to think' but the kids are missing him so badly and keep asking where he is and why he isn't home. (i also said someone else was missing him badly but that was somethign else entirely)

He just wrote back and said "I know it's very hard on Lil 1s. I do miss them and I know youre not using guilt trip"

He didn't say he was missing me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I knew he wouldn't but it still hurts so badly.

I have been TRYING to read up on plan A but it is SO HARD TO find the exact things to do. Could someone please point me in the right direction? I have looked on the thread but still have no idea.

Thanks

Justine

I worked out a way to find my other posts!

Beauty - I do see what you mean about the texts and not answering - and him missing us. I know that happens Because this weekend I have been trying hard NOT to text him, not to reply. And it kills me each morning - but it has been HIM each morning that has texted first.

Orchid - yes 'ruth' is OW.

Ark - your message scared me because I can see that it is very true, i just dont think Im strong enough to do it.

He has said he will be here at 6am with the easter eggs,so that we have them out before the kids get up. We'll go to church at 9 (he won't go, never does, that's fine) and then go off to the Show.

I dont think he will (at this stage) have OW meet the kids. I really don't. But then again - hey - there's lots of things I 'really didn't' think!!

On a very good note, he fwded a message from a very good friend of ours that has offereed him a room previously. He didn't want to take it up before (said this at the psych) because he was too embarrassed because they are BOTH of our friends.

I will post the text here, but before i do, i dont wanna get my hopes up about why he sent it to me. I would love to think he sent it to me because he is seriously considering taking them up on the offer. He had said to the psych that he would go elsewhere but there is no where else to go, we can't afford a hotel, he will go batty at his mothers and all his friends are our friends.

Anyway - here is the text. I think it is wonderful - just hope he isn't too in the fog to see it and my act on it. (prob being he will still see OW at work on Tues)

"Gday M. It's K here. So much I'd like to say, but Im not. Not my place to say or to judge. As a friend though I woudl liek to extend our offer 4 u to stay at our place in lieu of where ur currently staying. For my lifes as mucha bout respect as anything else. for u to be able to get thru these difficult times, u need to respect yourself, your values, and your beliefs. You need also to show some respect for those dearest to you, your family. Without this respect, the rest of your life counts for nothing. Be true, have strength, find the courage and have respect. It's that simple. You'll have the space you need at our place. You won't be judged and if you need a friend to talk to. well you'll have both L and I."

Now if only he will act on this.......

Justine

Just was looking at the basic concepts site and the Plan A site and saw these

Affection

Sexual Fulfillment

Conversation

Recreational Companionship

Honesty and Openness

An Attractive Spouse

Financial Support

Domestic Support

Family Commitment

Admiration

I was thinking - with the 'conversation'. We used to always SMS in teh middle of the day, any time we heard or saw something silly on the radio or something. sometimes we woudl ring about it - but not as often cause didnt know if either were in meetings etc.
This has changed in teh past 3 weeks. So now I am wondering if I should resume this. I know that when we do get into a 'texting convo' it gets better and better and 'darl' gets tacked onto the end of the messages from him. Of is this just getting his cake and eating it too?

Well its 2am over in the Northern Hemisphere and no one is up!LOL

I am going to dress the kids up warmish and we are going to Putt Putt with friends tonight. I did msg Mark and tell him we were going, and told him if he woudl like to join us that would be nice. He msged back 'what time' and then said 'he would see how he felt, he was very tired after a bad/restless night'. So i felt ok for asking him but not asking him 'needingly'

But Shining Through - I am trying to think of me and the kids! see! I really would prefer to stay at home and wallow - but I shant!!

Will check online when I get home tonight and hope there are some nightowls up or some early birds!!

Thanks
Jus

I am back from Putt Putt Golf. It was a great night. a few friends and a lot of support. Surprise Surprise, Mark didnt show. But he did msg me twice to tell me what was on TV - GRRRR.

Anyway - Because I am in a strong mood I drafted a letter that I would like to give him tomorrow night when he chooses to go to the city (as I know in my heart of hearts he will)

Please let me know what you think? How I should change it? If I should give it at all.

Thanking you all so much

Justine



Mark,

I did think you would choose to go to the city. You believe it is meeting your emotional needs right now. It isn’t actually, it is just a drug but until you realise this -

I cannot keep having you walk in and out of the house. As much as I need you here, and the children need you here we will find a way to work things out for ourselves.

Please don’t be ashamed to take up Kevin’s offer. It is a very special friend that can make an offer like that. And in all honesty Mark, what more can you be ashamed of? Theirs is a place where there are plenty of wide open spaces for long walks to find clarity, and where there is no outside demands from us or from Ruth.

When the fog lifts and you realise that this is the place you need to be, that you want to be, we will be here, don’t be afraid to come home.

But, there are boundaries of mine that need to be met before that can happen.

You must have broken all contact with her, by phone, text message and sight. We will not be able to start resolving our issues until she is out of the picture.

My needs are not being met at the moment. At the moment I am trying to act sanely and normally with the children whilst living in a nightmare. I cannot continue like this.

I don’t have my companion, husband and lover to talk to and laugh with;

I don’t have the affection that I have always had from you;

I don’t have the honesty and openness that I cherished in our relationship

I don’t have the admiration that you have always given me

I don’t have the recreational companionship that we have shared

I don’t have the family commitment that you have never shirked nor the domestic support that you always contributed

I don’t have the financial security that was always a seesaw at the best of times

And

I don’t have any sexual fulfillment – not even of the most passive kind.


These are needs that I always took for granted in our relationship, that I want to fullfil for you (and thought I was) but I also must have met.

We are still married, you are still my husband and I love you dearly. But until you can treat the children and I fairly in this situation I’m afraid I can no longer be a door mat.

I have patience, that is what you asked of me from the very start. I have commitment to making our marriage work and our love for each other to be as strong as it was before all of this happened.

I will endeavour to get a closer appointment at the marriage counselor, but if not – I will see you there on the 1st of May.

With Love,
Justine



WHAT DO YOU THINK????? TO MUCH? WRONG???? HELP PLEASE!!

Me again - 1000 of msgs later.

Am very stressed now. Just got this message from Kevin (the friend) he said he really stewed over sending it, but that mark had said he could send it to me if he wanted (in other words Marks gutless way of telling me)
This is is response to the message Kevin wrote to Mark about the offer to stay at his place....

Thanks Kev, I really do appreciate the offer from u and lorraine> I do countu as v good friends with only mine and Juz's best intentions at hear. I respect Juz v much and think she's an incredible woman. She's a very passionate and giving woman who usually gets wat she wants because of her passion. I love my kids and always will. From the v start Ive always said I wont stay in a marriage just for the sake of the kids.I'll always be a part of their lives and help in wateva way am needed. The lass am seeing has not once wanted to try 2 come between me and the kids and continually says just that. She's here to stay (what does THAT mean?) and I gotta figure out if it's her, justine or even no one. If it gets 2 much or i need someone to talk to have a beer with you'll be my first call. Promise. Mark


Oh ******!

Juzz,

The WS is waviering and the OW won't act like she will come between him and the children....not yet.... The ow in our case did the same. In reality she was insanely jealous of anyone the WS spent time and $$ on. So it wasn't just about me.

Btw, his e-mail is highly conflicting and you need to get angry about this. He says he will always be there for the chlidren. Here w/b my reply.

Ws,
U R having an affair. With a person who at this time 'appears' t/b good 4 u. Sad, very sad that you have chosen to step away from your family and down in life.

Your family still loves you but it is evident you don't love your children or your wife. In fact, your friends are also hurting to see you make such foolish choices.

Still, it is important one of us NOT abandon our children as you have. At this time, you will need to provide me with the outline which guarantees our children will have a safe and sane place to live. Provide a complete background check on this OW along with her financial statements.

Why would I require such information? Because at this time, your actions are crazy. The OW has you convinced she is a good person when in reality MOST OWs are jealous and selfish to the core. You appear to be picking up on her traits. I never would have expected such from you.

As for abandoning our children, you have already done that. Now what is your recovery plan from that bad decision? Will we now need to send out children to therapy as a result? I know I need support to get through this mess you have pushed us into.

R U feeling guilt? You should be. Don't give me your guilt. Give our family a recovery plan.

Your W.

Well Juzz, that's not a love letter....by no means. Because he is still waviering, it is high time you step up with your requirements. Expect him to let the OW know about this letter. A plan of yours should include pissing off the OW. R U ready for the fallout of that decision?

This is a strong very strong letter. If you are ready to send something similar, I think it w/b high time.

The WS is trying to defend his stance. Let him know it ain't working.

Btw, you don't have to spill your source.

Where are you in the exposure area?

L.

tell him not to BOTHER coming in the morning...
tell him you are busy and have plans...

why does he get to pretend with the kids...make time for him in the evening....post festitivities...

let hime experience a family day without the family..

i implore you to do this

ark

Well the Easter Show was lovely. Very very hard and sad to do. To see all these families walk around and know that we looked like one too, but weren't.

The kids had a lovely time and I could tell WS was having one too.

He was lovely tih me , but not affectionate in any way. Actually, he was, he called me darl and darling more and more as the day went on.

We got home very late and I waited and waited to see what he would do. He talked about us taking the kids to the movies tomorrow so I thought (but didnt get my hopes up) that he may stay.

He sat down here and played on the computer with the PDA for about an hour.

Finally I said 'Mark, I am very tired and I need to go to bed.Are you going to stay tonight'

He said 'I dont know, but i have to make my mind up soon, it is late'.

I said 'well, we need to talk, it would be good if you stayed so that the kids can see you all day tomorrow on the public holiday and we can do all the things that need to be done around the back yard.'

'yes' he said.

THen I went to bed.

He then came in and said 'an afternoon session for the movies would be best for them I think, after their big day today'

So I knew then that he woudl leave.

I just said 'yes it would'

I said 'I hope to see you here in the morning, Ni Ni'

I then heard from 11.30 - 12.45am him sit down, stand up, walk around and I thought 'he is wavering SOOO much.'

Then I fell asleep.

Woke at 1.45 and he was gone <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I knew he would be but I was still sad.

I waited until 7.45 this morning and wrote him a text that said 'You left. That is sad for the kids and sad for us all. I thought you might sleep on the lounge if you didnt want to share the bed with me.'

I haven't heard from him yet, (10am) but I know that is because he is asleep still.

This is part of the stuff I need to say to him tonight. He says he will always be here for the children, yes well, that(unfortunately) includes 7.30am wake up calls from kids bedroom. Sure, we can usually get up, make them some toast and put a video on, but sleep ins dont happen. I know that is something that he will be taking great advantage of atm.


Another thing he said last night was about how next Sunday would I like the whole day off, to have a day off like he has been having to have a break from the kids. I said to him 'do you want me to have a day, do you think I need it' he said 'yes I do'. I said 'yes I do, but my days off include you.' No response of course.

Anyway - I have been asked to go out with friends for an easter bbq lunch. I hadn't told him about it. So I am going to get the kids showered and we will go off there. He may turn up whilst we are gone.

I will make sure we are home in time to go to the movies and tonight - when we are both less tired then we were last night (and man oh man were we exhausted - i was/am veyr worried about him driving the 45mins into the city last night) I will present his packed bag (thanks TT I did exactly as you suggested and put easter cards, craft, family photos, etc throughout it) and my letter to him.

Orchid, i like your letter and it makes sense, i just am not angry enough to give that to him yet.

I am going to READ him my letter, say to him that this is all the things I wanted to say to him but knew that I would get too upset to say and forget. And then I will give it to him.

Justine

He is conflicted, and that is good. Be prepared for things to get worse before they get better, but you are in a good position for where you are, and he will notice, even though it will seem to make no difference for a while.

Thanks for your support NSYN. I love your tag line, Im here in Australia - and it so feels like the world IS coming to an end some times!

Do I let him take the kids next week? Do you think? I mean in a 'real separation' he would have the kids. As long as he has them here? Which is what he offered?

Or do I stick with my letter and break contact until 1st May - well, at least that kind of 'family play nicely' contact?

I am so confused.

Jus

Do I let him take the kids next week?

Have you told him how YOUR children are NOT permitted withing 20,000 feet of the OW...

Have you told him that your children are not to be exposed to his girlfriend...

Have you gone to a lawyer to establish your rights to protect the children...

ARK

You should either be in Plan A or Plan B, but not both.

I would not recommend cutting contact with him until a formal Plan B is entered. Maybe Ark, Orchid, or others could help you with the timing of it; I'm sure it would be soon. Dr. Harley's old timeline was 6 months for Plan A, but the new recommendation is 1 1/2 - 3 months for women and 3-6 months for men, just as a general guideline.

You would pass up many opportunities to reconnect with your WH during the time between now and the MC appointment.

As to the children, maybe someone has a better idea, but my feeling is the more they can be kept away from the WS the better. If he is willing to let you keep them more, I think you should for their sakes.

He is welcome to come HOME and watch them

tell him OW would be shot for trespassing if she came in YOUR home....

let him come home...watch the children...and see you go off happy meeting people that is non of his concern come home happier...or better yet ...come home to wisk the kids off to a gathering of the friends that support you....

ARK

Juzzie, which part of Oz are you in? I'm in Hong Kong but there seem to be a growing number of MBers down under!

I think you are too early for Plan B. Continue to Plan A even if you are separated but I agree about not letting him introduce the kids to OW. Mind you, how about that for a dose of reality. OW's not used to sharing him with 3 kids! But seriously, better to keep them away. TT