I just printed out a post I found about 'fear' that sums me up to a T. I am going to read that all day today, whenever I get the chance.

I am going out with my mum and nan and my 3 children today. For a picnic to Mother Mary McKillops House. I know it has a beautiful chapel and I will be in there praying and praying.

So much of what i have read on MB this last 48hrs in particular makes so much sense but is so scary. i read the post about how it is useless going to a MC if he is still in the A - and he is well and truly seeings as he is staying there until Sunday when we take the kids out together, and then on Sunday night is telling me if he will prefer the city to our home rather than tooing and froing.

ANyway _ I have posted that before (cept I lose where I post things - sorry!)

This following questions is the one I really need help with tomorrow. Please, all you amazing people out there, help me with my Plan A - help me NOT be a doormat!!

>>>>> My H is definately fence sitting. He told me he will decide on Sunday whether he is going to stay in the city (with her) or come home (to me and his 3 young childnre). I have a strong feeling he will choose her because I got msg from him at lunchtime yesterday (im trying not to communicate with him as normal sms - which is always what he wants to do) saying how he had the best restful sleep for a v long time and that yes, he missed the kids not jumping on the bed in the morning (not me ) but that he really really needed the rest.

That to me is 'getting me ready' for the ultimate comment tomorrow afternoon.

I need help PLEASE ANYONE with how to indentify by boundarires. How not to be a doormat. With regard to exposure. His family and my family and his workfriends and our friends know,a nd he still goes to her. He even said to teh psych it's not really the sex with her, just the escape from reality. SO HE KNOWS IT>

But someone,please help me with how to be strong tomorrow. PPLEASE. What do I say to him? There are days that it was HIS JOB to pick up the kids from sport/school because I am at work, do I find someone else to do that or let him still do it and be nice and serene when I do see him.

I have told him I do love him and that I want this to work. BUt it can't work like this. I told him that in a letter on Wednesday night.

I dont know how to confront him about issues but do it with reverse babble?

We are seeing a MC, but can't get back in until 1st May unless there is a cancellation.

Please someone explain Nuclear exposure, reverse babble, serene confrontation at every opportunity

Thankyou,

zuj

Juzzie,
One of the biggest components of Plan A is working on yourself and eleiminated all LB'S and DJ's.
Right now, it seeems as if you are HANGING on his every word. That would be a mistake, as he is no longer the core of your sanity. Let's get to work on Juzzie and not be so tagged to what WH thinks and does.
He is in the middle of an A fog and that is not where you want to be. YOU are the sane one here, not him!
Most people here are correct, in that, MC is pretty useless while the A continues. Most MC's do not want to address this and that is their fatal mistake in MC. Only those C's who TRULY understand the dynamics of an A can be any help to you.
In the book, "Not Just Friends", by Dr. Shirlee Glass, she states that 41% of all therapists recomend not telling the BS what has happened in their M. To me, that said it all. You've only got a 50/50 chance of finding a good therapist, and if the A is on going, your H will probably lie his A$$ off to protect himself from any negative critisism.
I strongly urge you to read up on EXACTLY what Plan A is and is not. This will help you tremendously. You seem to me to be floudering in some kind of limbo, where you don't have a clue what should do next. I don't mean this disrespectively in any way, but I sence you need help and a firm, positive, plan.
I'm hoping the real calvary will arrive very soon, so be patient, they will arrive. I'm not the best to be giving advise. Way too many others that can do a better job of that.
All blessings,
Jerry

Try not to start alot of threads, that makes it hard for people to track your story. Stick with one and update your feelings on it regularly and it will stay up on the first page. I just want to be able to keep track of you, because I want you to get help from the Veteran's on this site. Hope you read my post on your other thread. I am new here, but I hope I can give you some hope that it is not over yet and you still have a chance. Listen to these guy's, it just might save your M. I am a BS myself and am still trying to rebuild M

God Bless

Juzzie, it is so hard to reason with a person who is in the throes of an A. Your WH knows how wrong he is. HE KNOWS IT but at the moment, he's so infatuated with the OW that he is willing to risk everything for a fix.

On Sunday, look your best, don't cry, don't shout, and just try to be as composed as possible. Regardless of his choice, let him see that the woman he is possibly walking away from is strong and dignified. Most likely the OW is possessive and needy, making him feel important and desired. Be a contrast. Let him know you need him but will survive without him.

Just in case he decides to go to OW (a big likelihood but don't expect it to last), why not have a bag packed ready for him. Lightly spray the contents of the bag with your favourite perfume and inbetween each layer, put a lovely family photo, or a child's drawing.

Good luck Juzzie but mostly be calm and strong. TT

Tuck, loooove your idea about the packed bag <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My prayers are with you Juzzie, I've been wondering about you since reading your first posts. I'm new to this too, so no great advice except for you to get your strength from the One who can truly give it...I will have faith that your marriage can be reborn on Easter just as our Savior.

Thankyou people! I am so insane and this board is helping so.

Im so sorry for chopping and changing threads. I can't remember where I posted what!

Shining Through - you are exactly right, I am hanging on his every word. I know it's wrong to, but i still do. I am now very worried about the MC and if it's gonna work. I did mention at our first session there about 'ruth' and this MC does come highly recommended. So I can only hope that he will deal with the A properly. Although, as Ive posted before - gotta wait until May 1st until we see him again. So much can have happened by then <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Tuck - I too do believe he will go to her place. Good thinking about the bag, will make me very sad to do tho <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I am going to have the best day with the kids and him at the Easter Show that I possibly can. Lots of love and fun and family stuff and then, at the end of the night, well, I guess that's when it will all roll out. What makes me sad even now is knowing that there'll be no touching on Sunday. You know - just holding hands whilst the kids are runnign in front, or leaning on each other whilst watching the stuff in the arena. I miss all that so much.

Beauty, I am going to try and find my other thread so I can see your message! I am having trouble keeping track of the board.

24give- oh how I wish that i could have that miracle Easter Day! Oh, my heart is so wishing that.

He has been msging me again today. About walks he has gone on to clear his head. About how he had a bad night last night and couldn't sleep, about how he just saw two movie stars walking round the city (cause that's the area he is staying in) I have been writing back a bit - I couldn't help myself.Then half an hour ago an I wrote to him and told him that Im trying not to use it as a guilt trip and Im trying to 'give him his space to think' but the kids are missing him so badly and keep asking where he is and why he isn't home. (i also said someone else was missing him badly but that was somethign else entirely)

He just wrote back and said "I know it's very hard on Lil 1s. I do miss them and I know youre not using guilt trip"

He didn't say he was missing me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I knew he wouldn't but it still hurts so badly.

I have been TRYING to read up on plan A but it is SO HARD TO find the exact things to do. Could someone please point me in the right direction? I have looked on the thread but still have no idea.

Thanks

Justine

I worked out a way to find my other posts!

Beauty - I do see what you mean about the texts and not answering - and him missing us. I know that happens Because this weekend I have been trying hard NOT to text him, not to reply. And it kills me each morning - but it has been HIM each morning that has texted first.

Orchid - yes 'ruth' is OW.

Ark - your message scared me because I can see that it is very true, i just dont think Im strong enough to do it.

He has said he will be here at 6am with the easter eggs,so that we have them out before the kids get up. We'll go to church at 9 (he won't go, never does, that's fine) and then go off to the Show.

I dont think he will (at this stage) have OW meet the kids. I really don't. But then again - hey - there's lots of things I 'really didn't' think!!

On a very good note, he fwded a message from a very good friend of ours that has offereed him a room previously. He didn't want to take it up before (said this at the psych) because he was too embarrassed because they are BOTH of our friends.

I will post the text here, but before i do, i dont wanna get my hopes up about why he sent it to me. I would love to think he sent it to me because he is seriously considering taking them up on the offer. He had said to the psych that he would go elsewhere but there is no where else to go, we can't afford a hotel, he will go batty at his mothers and all his friends are our friends.

Anyway - here is the text. I think it is wonderful - just hope he isn't too in the fog to see it and my act on it. (prob being he will still see OW at work on Tues)

"Gday M. It's K here. So much I'd like to say, but Im not. Not my place to say or to judge. As a friend though I woudl liek to extend our offer 4 u to stay at our place in lieu of where ur currently staying. For my lifes as mucha bout respect as anything else. for u to be able to get thru these difficult times, u need to respect yourself, your values, and your beliefs. You need also to show some respect for those dearest to you, your family. Without this respect, the rest of your life counts for nothing. Be true, have strength, find the courage and have respect. It's that simple. You'll have the space you need at our place. You won't be judged and if you need a friend to talk to. well you'll have both L and I."

Now if only he will act on this.......

Justine

Just was looking at the basic concepts site and the Plan A site and saw these

Affection

Sexual Fulfillment

Conversation

Recreational Companionship

Honesty and Openness

An Attractive Spouse

Financial Support

Domestic Support

Family Commitment

Admiration

I was thinking - with the 'conversation'. We used to always SMS in teh middle of the day, any time we heard or saw something silly on the radio or something. sometimes we woudl ring about it - but not as often cause didnt know if either were in meetings etc.
This has changed in teh past 3 weeks. So now I am wondering if I should resume this. I know that when we do get into a 'texting convo' it gets better and better and 'darl' gets tacked onto the end of the messages from him. Of is this just getting his cake and eating it too?

Well its 2am over in the Northern Hemisphere and no one is up!LOL

I am going to dress the kids up warmish and we are going to Putt Putt with friends tonight. I did msg Mark and tell him we were going, and told him if he woudl like to join us that would be nice. He msged back 'what time' and then said 'he would see how he felt, he was very tired after a bad/restless night'. So i felt ok for asking him but not asking him 'needingly'

But Shining Through - I am trying to think of me and the kids! see! I really would prefer to stay at home and wallow - but I shant!!

Will check online when I get home tonight and hope there are some nightowls up or some early birds!!

Thanks
Jus

I am back from Putt Putt Golf. It was a great night. a few friends and a lot of support. Surprise Surprise, Mark didnt show. But he did msg me twice to tell me what was on TV - GRRRR.

Anyway - Because I am in a strong mood I drafted a letter that I would like to give him tomorrow night when he chooses to go to the city (as I know in my heart of hearts he will)

Please let me know what you think? How I should change it? If I should give it at all.

Thanking you all so much

Justine



Mark,

I did think you would choose to go to the city. You believe it is meeting your emotional needs right now. It isn’t actually, it is just a drug but until you realise this -

I cannot keep having you walk in and out of the house. As much as I need you here, and the children need you here we will find a way to work things out for ourselves.

Please don’t be ashamed to take up Kevin’s offer. It is a very special friend that can make an offer like that. And in all honesty Mark, what more can you be ashamed of? Theirs is a place where there are plenty of wide open spaces for long walks to find clarity, and where there is no outside demands from us or from Ruth.

When the fog lifts and you realise that this is the place you need to be, that you want to be, we will be here, don’t be afraid to come home.

But, there are boundaries of mine that need to be met before that can happen.

You must have broken all contact with her, by phone, text message and sight. We will not be able to start resolving our issues until she is out of the picture.

My needs are not being met at the moment. At the moment I am trying to act sanely and normally with the children whilst living in a nightmare. I cannot continue like this.

I don’t have my companion, husband and lover to talk to and laugh with;

I don’t have the affection that I have always had from you;

I don’t have the honesty and openness that I cherished in our relationship

I don’t have the admiration that you have always given me

I don’t have the recreational companionship that we have shared

I don’t have the family commitment that you have never shirked nor the domestic support that you always contributed

I don’t have the financial security that was always a seesaw at the best of times

And

I don’t have any sexual fulfillment – not even of the most passive kind.


These are needs that I always took for granted in our relationship, that I want to fullfil for you (and thought I was) but I also must have met.

We are still married, you are still my husband and I love you dearly. But until you can treat the children and I fairly in this situation I’m afraid I can no longer be a door mat.

I have patience, that is what you asked of me from the very start. I have commitment to making our marriage work and our love for each other to be as strong as it was before all of this happened.

I will endeavour to get a closer appointment at the marriage counselor, but if not – I will see you there on the 1st of May.

With Love,
Justine



WHAT DO YOU THINK????? TO MUCH? WRONG???? HELP PLEASE!!

Me again - 1000 of msgs later.

Am very stressed now. Just got this message from Kevin (the friend) he said he really stewed over sending it, but that mark had said he could send it to me if he wanted (in other words Marks gutless way of telling me)
This is is response to the message Kevin wrote to Mark about the offer to stay at his place....

Thanks Kev, I really do appreciate the offer from u and lorraine> I do countu as v good friends with only mine and Juz's best intentions at hear. I respect Juz v much and think she's an incredible woman. She's a very passionate and giving woman who usually gets wat she wants because of her passion. I love my kids and always will. From the v start Ive always said I wont stay in a marriage just for the sake of the kids.I'll always be a part of their lives and help in wateva way am needed. The lass am seeing has not once wanted to try 2 come between me and the kids and continually says just that. She's here to stay (what does THAT mean?) and I gotta figure out if it's her, justine or even no one. If it gets 2 much or i need someone to talk to have a beer with you'll be my first call. Promise. Mark


Oh ******!

Juzz,

The WS is waviering and the OW won't act like she will come between him and the children....not yet.... The ow in our case did the same. In reality she was insanely jealous of anyone the WS spent time and $$ on. So it wasn't just about me.

Btw, his e-mail is highly conflicting and you need to get angry about this. He says he will always be there for the chlidren. Here w/b my reply.

Ws,
U R having an affair. With a person who at this time 'appears' t/b good 4 u. Sad, very sad that you have chosen to step away from your family and down in life.

Your family still loves you but it is evident you don't love your children or your wife. In fact, your friends are also hurting to see you make such foolish choices.

Still, it is important one of us NOT abandon our children as you have. At this time, you will need to provide me with the outline which guarantees our children will have a safe and sane place to live. Provide a complete background check on this OW along with her financial statements.

Why would I require such information? Because at this time, your actions are crazy. The OW has you convinced she is a good person when in reality MOST OWs are jealous and selfish to the core. You appear to be picking up on her traits. I never would have expected such from you.

As for abandoning our children, you have already done that. Now what is your recovery plan from that bad decision? Will we now need to send out children to therapy as a result? I know I need support to get through this mess you have pushed us into.

R U feeling guilt? You should be. Don't give me your guilt. Give our family a recovery plan.

Your W.

Well Juzz, that's not a love letter....by no means. Because he is still waviering, it is high time you step up with your requirements. Expect him to let the OW know about this letter. A plan of yours should include pissing off the OW. R U ready for the fallout of that decision?

This is a strong very strong letter. If you are ready to send something similar, I think it w/b high time.

The WS is trying to defend his stance. Let him know it ain't working.

Btw, you don't have to spill your source.

Where are you in the exposure area?

L.

tell him not to BOTHER coming in the morning...
tell him you are busy and have plans...

why does he get to pretend with the kids...make time for him in the evening....post festitivities...

let hime experience a family day without the family..

i implore you to do this

ark

Well the Easter Show was lovely. Very very hard and sad to do. To see all these families walk around and know that we looked like one too, but weren't.

The kids had a lovely time and I could tell WS was having one too.

He was lovely tih me , but not affectionate in any way. Actually, he was, he called me darl and darling more and more as the day went on.

We got home very late and I waited and waited to see what he would do. He talked about us taking the kids to the movies tomorrow so I thought (but didnt get my hopes up) that he may stay.

He sat down here and played on the computer with the PDA for about an hour.

Finally I said 'Mark, I am very tired and I need to go to bed.Are you going to stay tonight'

He said 'I dont know, but i have to make my mind up soon, it is late'.

I said 'well, we need to talk, it would be good if you stayed so that the kids can see you all day tomorrow on the public holiday and we can do all the things that need to be done around the back yard.'

'yes' he said.

THen I went to bed.

He then came in and said 'an afternoon session for the movies would be best for them I think, after their big day today'

So I knew then that he woudl leave.

I just said 'yes it would'

I said 'I hope to see you here in the morning, Ni Ni'

I then heard from 11.30 - 12.45am him sit down, stand up, walk around and I thought 'he is wavering SOOO much.'

Then I fell asleep.

Woke at 1.45 and he was gone <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I knew he would be but I was still sad.

I waited until 7.45 this morning and wrote him a text that said 'You left. That is sad for the kids and sad for us all. I thought you might sleep on the lounge if you didnt want to share the bed with me.'

I haven't heard from him yet, (10am) but I know that is because he is asleep still.

This is part of the stuff I need to say to him tonight. He says he will always be here for the children, yes well, that(unfortunately) includes 7.30am wake up calls from kids bedroom. Sure, we can usually get up, make them some toast and put a video on, but sleep ins dont happen. I know that is something that he will be taking great advantage of atm.


Another thing he said last night was about how next Sunday would I like the whole day off, to have a day off like he has been having to have a break from the kids. I said to him 'do you want me to have a day, do you think I need it' he said 'yes I do'. I said 'yes I do, but my days off include you.' No response of course.

Anyway - I have been asked to go out with friends for an easter bbq lunch. I hadn't told him about it. So I am going to get the kids showered and we will go off there. He may turn up whilst we are gone.

I will make sure we are home in time to go to the movies and tonight - when we are both less tired then we were last night (and man oh man were we exhausted - i was/am veyr worried about him driving the 45mins into the city last night) I will present his packed bag (thanks TT I did exactly as you suggested and put easter cards, craft, family photos, etc throughout it) and my letter to him.

Orchid, i like your letter and it makes sense, i just am not angry enough to give that to him yet.

I am going to READ him my letter, say to him that this is all the things I wanted to say to him but knew that I would get too upset to say and forget. And then I will give it to him.

Justine

He is conflicted, and that is good. Be prepared for things to get worse before they get better, but you are in a good position for where you are, and he will notice, even though it will seem to make no difference for a while.

Thanks for your support NSYN. I love your tag line, Im here in Australia - and it so feels like the world IS coming to an end some times!

Do I let him take the kids next week? Do you think? I mean in a 'real separation' he would have the kids. As long as he has them here? Which is what he offered?

Or do I stick with my letter and break contact until 1st May - well, at least that kind of 'family play nicely' contact?

I am so confused.

Jus

Do I let him take the kids next week?

Have you told him how YOUR children are NOT permitted withing 20,000 feet of the OW...

Have you told him that your children are not to be exposed to his girlfriend...

Have you gone to a lawyer to establish your rights to protect the children...

ARK

You should either be in Plan A or Plan B, but not both.

I would not recommend cutting contact with him until a formal Plan B is entered. Maybe Ark, Orchid, or others could help you with the timing of it; I'm sure it would be soon. Dr. Harley's old timeline was 6 months for Plan A, but the new recommendation is 1 1/2 - 3 months for women and 3-6 months for men, just as a general guideline.

You would pass up many opportunities to reconnect with your WH during the time between now and the MC appointment.

As to the children, maybe someone has a better idea, but my feeling is the more they can be kept away from the WS the better. If he is willing to let you keep them more, I think you should for their sakes.

He is welcome to come HOME and watch them

tell him OW would be shot for trespassing if she came in YOUR home....

let him come home...watch the children...and see you go off happy meeting people that is non of his concern come home happier...or better yet ...come home to wisk the kids off to a gathering of the friends that support you....

ARK

Juzzie, which part of Oz are you in? I'm in Hong Kong but there seem to be a growing number of MBers down under!

I think you are too early for Plan B. Continue to Plan A even if you are separated but I agree about not letting him introduce the kids to OW. Mind you, how about that for a dose of reality. OW's not used to sharing him with 3 kids! But seriously, better to keep them away. TT

Well - update for today!

This is like my blog! Cept I haven't been able to keep my blog since all this happened because I used to write on that when i was happy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Anyway - I had a very very lovely day today. A mums group I belong to were having a picnic. I wasn't sure if I would mentally prepared to go. Lots of them know what is happening and have been SOOOO supportive, but just to be THERE with them, I wasn't sure.

So, as you know - Mark did leave last night and I thought 'bugger it - i can't hang around the house all day, I will go more crazy'

So took the kids out and have only just gotten home and them in bed at 8.30 tonight.

I heard from him at midday today. NSYN you are so very very right about him being conflicted and taht is a good thing, but yes, I can see it swinging badly for a while.

This is what the text said after I msged him at 7am this morning to say 'You left. How sad for the chn, how sad for us all. I thought that you might have slept on the lounge if you didnt want to crawl into bed' and that's all I wrote....


So - midday I get this...

"I'm sorry Juz. I very stayed but wasn't tired. When I got to city at about 2am I went for a wander. I crawled into bed (HERS-Grr) about 4. I cried a good portion of the trip. Why? I enjoyed the day very much but sitting at the PC last night I still needed to leave. I promise after work tomorrow I'll be staying at Liverpool and we'll take kids to movies and we'll pull down backyard thingy. It was a step in the right direction yesterday, and I hope you think so too? Speak to you later, Marky"

So - now I think - does he mean 'I'll be staying at Liverpool just for tomorrow night' or is he gonna pack up and come home? (and if it is just for 2mrw night then Wedn morn I was thinking of giving letter, but now after reading posts from today am wondering if I should?'

And his remark about 'step in the right direction' I am HOPING I read that as in 'us'. I will be on the phone to the receptionist of the MC tomorrow to see if there are any cancelations cause I KNEW he was teetering and i really REALLY wanna get into the MC asap.

So anyway, I didnt answer for a good hour (because I was trying to think up a response that had EN and RB in them) and finally I said 'I enjoyed yesterday too, it was nice to have a lovely day together with all the strain we have had. I too think it was a good step towards 'us' but was sad that you felt the need to escape last night. Perhaps we can escape together for a few days and just be the two of us (probably MUCH too early to say that but I couldnt' help myself).


At this point I didnt tell him we were out. I let him think we were just sitting at home. Then he msged me to tell our boy that the running was on Ch10 so I said we were at a picnic and sent him thru some shots of the kids VERY grubby but having a lovely time. He responded to them and then tonight at 7.30 msged me and said he was going for a long walk, he hoped the kids were behaved today and he would see me tomorrow arvo.

SOooooo - Im still in limbo but I THINK im feeling more positive - I think I think I think. (for this millisecond anyway). My only bugger is that he is THERE at her place again tonight - even if he isn't spending taht much time with her. If she has any idea he is this conflicted (and Im sure she does) then she's gonna be trying her damndest to keep him there.

Am thinking that on Thurs or Fri (depending on what 2mrw brings of course) I will take kids into his work to meet him for lunch. SHE works there on the front desk, but I know his other work collegues. And my children are gorgeous (ok, rose coloured glasses, but they still are!) and I know that if I arrive at his work as the 'dear wifey with the 3 young children' it will work in my favour.

I have told him we were going to meet him for lunch in the hols. I was going to leave it until the 2nd week, but am thinking that this week might be a better stand. The more threatened she is - the better. THe claws come out and she starts saying nasty things about me - Hmm - that WOULD Be good.

She works on reception but I know where his desk in and I am going to give her the evilest eye as I walk past to this desk. I DO wish I could explain to my 7 year old NOT to talk to the lady behind the front desk with the long brown hair, that she is a bad lady, but I can't do that - obviously!

But I will ensure that they DONT get the opportunity to converse with her -to the point of rudeness and that they converse with every other staff member there.

Anyway - that is getting ahead of myself!!

Ark - I have already told him - NO WAY does he allow the children to be with her AT ANY TIME. I will stipulate that again and again if I do go out next weekend. And yes, he has said about looking after them here at our home. I will say to him that i do not want our children to think that daddy loves someone more that mummy. And I know he will be ashamed of that, because, honestly, yesterday the alien disapeared for quite large portions of the day and he was again, the caring and loving man I once knew (or thought I knew)

Did I tell you last night that he initiated a kiss? I was so gobsmacked I didnt know what to do!! When I told him I was v tired and off to bed he stood up, put his arms around my shoulders and kissed me on the lips, just a peck but not a 'peck' and said 'did u have a good day?'

OMG - it's the first time he's kissed me in this whole time!

dunno dunno dunno.

Finished off this rant. Gotta go get the clothes out of the waashing machine that have been there all day, stick em on the line and then gonna watch Desperate Housewives. I actually FEEL like watching TV! That hasn't happened in a good few weeks!

Jus

TT - I am in Sydney.

A few friends have said about 'can you imagine if she had the kids for the day - OMG she would run so bloody fast she'd trip over herself.'

Especially my Connor - he is a delight but a 4 year old RASCAL!!!!!!!


NSYN - I dont know if others with children have found this. But they think he's at work. It's only at night time and mornings that they say 'where is daddy?' and then tonight, as we were leaving our friends house the young boy said 'where's your dad' and DD7 said in a sad voice 'He's at work' and DS4 said 'he's working so we get lots of food'

It broke my heart <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

But they didnt say one thing to him yesterday about where he had been, because he was there, and he was normal and he was with mummy - so it was all as it should be.

Jus

I just read this over on the 'Recovery after an affair' page and this is what worries me, the addiction.

In his text today he says about how when he was sitting at the PC he just NEEDED to go to the city. And my WH is weak - how on earth do I get him out of this addiction- especially when he does work with this woman.(although not every day) and when she is actively pursuing him?

"""But, as you have already discovered, the first few weeks of separation from a lover are very painful. You are addicted to your lover, and separation from the object of your addiction has triggered symptoms of withdrawal -- a compulsive craving for him with intense feelings of anxiety and depression."""

Juzzie, my WH went through the 'depression' of being in an A but I was so clueless I put it down to his long work hours and bad health. He left 3 times under the guise of depression, I thought he'd moved into a work apartment (he had a long distance to travel each day - it made sense for him to be nearer - NOT!), and then he moved out properly because "he didn't know what was wrong with him but he needed to get away". When I look back, I can't believe how naive I was. His mum would say, "Do you think there's someone else?" and I'd say, "No, I asked him". Didn't occur to me that he'd lie. OMG just reminding myself of these facts makes me smile. You never met a more trusting fool.

But what I was leading to is it's all a fantasy. Took a long time for my WH to work it out but he eventually did. It's such a predictable pattern they go through; he's probably in turmoil thinking two women need him desperately and he's torn. Well, my advice to you is not to be desperate. Let him know you would love him to be home, that the kids deserve an intact family, that you all love him and will miss him if he goes, BUT YOU WILL SURVIVE WITHOUT HIM. If you could just get him to read one of the recommended books on this website, perhaps he will recognise himself in the script. If he does decide to come home, expect him to be a complete and utter misery guts whilst he withdraws from OW. In fact, it was my WH;s withdrawal from OW that prompted me to separate. 5 months of him moping was too much for me - obviously he was in contact with her all the time. No contact is essential. There is no progress without it because she'll keep sucking him back into her world. Sorry if this sounds rushed - that's cos it is. I'm off out to dinner but wanted to check in on you.

I'm glad you had fun at the picnic. It is so essential to keep yourself busy. It's amazing what a distraction the children are too. It's good you've got friends to talk things through. Apart from one close friend, I bottled it all up for ages, partly through shame, and lived a half-life for a while. I function much better when I am busy.

Oh, my brother is off to Sydney via HK beginning of March. He's been offered a job there and is going to check it out. My family are from London originally. TT

Thanks TT, You give me hope, but then again - my god, it's such a long road isn't it.

You feel so SOOOOOOO stupid being clueless hey. Even yesterday I knew he was msging her when I jumped back in the car from dropping something off at my mum mum and dads. He said 'oh, i thought ud be longer than that, I was just trying to sort out how to save the pix on my ph straight to the memory card'. Now sure, I'd love to believe him, But honestly, I reckon there were a plethora of msgs from her sitting on his phone from the day and he hadn't the chance/opportunity to respond as we had been together all day. And here was his chance. But rather than cause a fight (thinking ENs and LBing) I just said 'oh right, no I just dropped and ran, want to get the kids into bed asap '(they were asleep in back)

I do try so not to be needy but sometimes it just comes out - without even meaning to do it. Do I change my letter? Do I not make it a Plan B? But still talk about the 'doormat issue' and MY ENs? I've got all 2mrw to do it, he won't be home until after work. I will go and sleep on it, and hope that when I awake that the Nth Hemisphere has some bright ideas for me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

TT, I hope you have a lovely dinner, you 8 hours behind us here? Nahhh, you can't be that much?

The OW is from England - that is how I know the bloody 'attraction' would have started you know. Because H and I are very great travellers and our favourite place in the world is Scotland. I teach Scottish dancing, and WH is of Scottish decent and we always said we would live there under his ancestry visa for a few years - but you know how it goes, years pass, kids, mortgage, cars, and now school fees and school positions that you lose if you leave.

So we've never done the 'big move'. But we still talk about it tho, say when the kids are older etc. And low and behold OW's family are from Scotland - although she is from Dartmouth. So that annoys and upsets me too! Something that WE had that was special, he has shared with HER. Grrrr

Anyway- Im off to bed. Its just after midnight and DS4 will be up at the crack of dawn and wake DD18mths! (DD7 will sleep thru it all until about 8am! lol)

Ni Ni
Justine

Juzzie, I never did Plan B so I wouldn't dream of advising about it, but I do think this is too early for it. If you need more advice about MB specifics, change the thread title to something quite needy, like "SOS - HELP NEEDED NOW" and hopefully some experts will jump in and help you. It is hard because if he moves out, there are some rules about a 'separated Plan A' but I can't remember.

HK is 2 or 3 hours behind you, depending on daylight savings. I think it is 2 currently. TT

I have caught up with the newest installment of your story, so pardon me if I ask questions you've already answered.

What can you do?

Be the best W you can be right now.

Plan A is about showing him the best W and the best M that can happen if he chooses you.
It's about cutting out the LB's and honing up on your EN's (yes, yes, yes, more text messages).
But most importantly, it's about negotiating an end to the A.

I would take opportunities to remind him that you both cannot even think about working on your M until OW is OUT of the picture. Begin telling him now that if/when you both get back together you will have to change jobs or she will have to quit.

You don't have to be nasty about it.

I would NEVER pack bags for WH though, unless I'm moving to Plan B...it makes it look like you are alright with the sitch...which you are NOT.

Not making yourself available is OK, but mainitain a loving attitude...not a drop everything to be with you, but keep sending pics and letting him know what you are up to, what he is missing.

Negotiate an end to Plan B by telling him MC is a waste of money until she is GONE. Explain what gone will be...no longer working together and a NC letter written by him and mailed by you, then accountability.

Explain, in your sweetest voice, the ultimate consequences of his actions...right now you are willing to make this work, but you will lose your love for him and although you don't want to now, if he continues with the OW, you will D him. You will NOT be friends after D, you will talk about the kids only. You will NOT be a companion or someone to text...that wouldn't be fair to any new romances you have. And the kids will NEVER forgive him for the choice he made to leave Mom for an OW.

I have a very softspoken voice...so I can say things that seem harsh in a very sweet way. Someone doesn't realize I've been harsh to them until later when they think of my words.

Set boundaries about how he talks to OW, and if he talks with her while you are both together...let him know how disrespectful it is. Whenever possible, show your disapproval that he has an OW.

Keep this up as long as you can...be Kind, kind, kind.

And then move to Plan B...abruptly, one day...bam...no more contact with Juz. Set up an intermediary, given him a letter letting him know NO more contact with you until he can prove OW is COMPLETELY out of the picture.

Then fight like the dickens to not have any contact with him, to not think about him, to SAVE THE LOVE YOU HAVE LEFT, and to wait for the A to die a NATURAL death.

You have NO control over the A. You can't help or hinder it by much. What you can do is show the best side of you so he remembers what he is giving up when the A starts to fold in on itself..and it WILL.

Oh yes, I would say keep up the Plan A...how long can you do it for? That is up to you.

Sometimes you can keep it up until there is a natural occurence to move to Plan B (like a move or holidays over) and sometimes you have to move to Plan B when you begin feeling apathetic and your lovebank draining drastically.
The timing is up to you, but I think you have a new you to show him for at LEAST a few more weeks.

For now, keep up with the same drop off and pick up schedule, but begin planning for that to end. Plan B could also mean diminished contact with kids too...

My feeling, too, is that you're not ready for Plan B yet. You will want your WH to become more of a cake-eater than he is now, if possible. And he will need a little more time to see how wonderful you are.

The more cake you can get him to accept from you, the bigger the shock when you go into Plan B, and he suddenly gets nothing.

And as TT said, you cannot actually do anything to end his addiction. You can make sure that the A is an uncomfortable place to be, and that home is a comfortable place to be. But he will have to end it himself, when it gets more painful to keep going than to turn around and come back. It may take a while, so be patient if you don't see immediate results.

But everything you are saying sounds very positive and hopeful.

sam

OMG! Thanks for these wonderful ideas. And SHMI - THANKYOU for the info regarding the texts. I have been texting him today, and him, me. He msged to say he would be home around 6, all going well at work. That he had to take the work car back to the Base office (where she is - so not happy about THAT).

Then later DD7 fell off her scooter and got a bloody nose, so I texted him about that and he said 'poor baby, tell her we're off to see IceAge2 tonight, that will cheer her up'

I have mentioned to him about how I had read that MC doesn't work when the A is still happening and his response was 'well, thats just one persons opinion' and it wasn't worth arguing about it - I just wanted to plant the seed.

In my most loving voice tonight, whilst at the movies or afterwards I know I need to say to him that we can't work on US until SHE is out of the picture. But I know I need to do this AFTER lots of ENs tonight.

And WOW NSYN and ARK about MORE of a cake eater. I see where you are coming from, but I was scared that would make him think 'best of both worlds' and continue like that. Not taht I really GIVE a ****** about what the rest of my family/friends think, but I can only imagine what they WILL think of me 'taking' all of this too-ing and fro-ing.

See, he was supposed to give me the ultimatium on Sunday. Now it's Tuesday and he's def staying tonight (so he says). Do I TRY to be romantic with him? Would he be repulsed if I tried to make love to him - is that TOOOO needy? I mean, there may not be any single opportunity for that kind of thing anyway. But you never know? Do I just sit with him in front of the tele and talk about his day, my day? Do I snuggle up to him (it's all I really wanna do, hold him, have him hold me).

WHAT DO I DO??????

At the show on Sunday I grabbed his hand a few times and then, one time as I was squeezing past him he brushed my legs - just as he would have in the past.


I SOO know he needs to find another job. I also know he wants to do taht too - has wanted to do taht for a while.

Now - the story goes (that he told the psych in front of me) that OW is going back to London for a holiday in May. I dont know if it's the beg or end of May. I may SMS WH work collegue and try to get her to find out, because she has told me a few things.

If I keep the cake eating up till May when she leaves - maybe that will be enough? Of course, he could still msg her - bloody technology! And more to the point - she can still msg HIM.

I guess what still upsets and worries me is that I know that yes, he goes to her place, but he also goes there to go for his 'escape' walks. I know he LOVES those walks. I mean, he was walking around the city from 2-4am. I am scared he will MISS that, you know. And that that may be as much a pull as the OW! That he doesn't feel there is a place to escape around here. YOu dont wanna be walking around our suburb at that time of night - let me tell you!!

Juz

Juzzie, hope you all had fun at the cinema this evening. You are right about "bloody technology". Mobile phones are the perfect tools for A's. You can text, chat, phonesex - whatever. No way would any of that happen from the home phone! If your WH does not come to his senses soon(and he won't whilst he's working with her), one of your boundaries should be full access to his mobile phone. My WH used to hide his but I used to sneak around and find it, and torture myself listening to her love messages and songs she'd sing to him. Your WH will only agree to this when he is ready to move forward with you and restore trust. If he refuses, he still has something to hide.

But that's later. For now, just continue to Plan A and look after yourself and the kids. Take care. TT

There is a great pull with friends and family about the right thing to do...how strong are you at setting boundaries, telling people what your intentions are and to support you in that intention or say nothing?

It's hard to know what the right thing to do is, and MB concepts often times feel counter intuitive.

Right now, be the best W and YOU you can be. SF, heck YEAH!! If you want, and you're not worried about an STD. Perhaps use a condom though...you wouldn't be the first BS that comes down with something...

Keep planting those seeds. Keep improving. It may not be obvious to him, point out the changes you are making...like, "Sweetie, I know I have had an angry tone in my voice before, and I am working hard to change it. I hope you have noticed. And I wanted to let you know this is something I intend to change for good."

And this 'escape" he needs? This is a bunch of bullhockey pucks. Yes, we all need an escape every now and again, and a release. He has committed himself to a W and a family and he has to find a way to take care of himself while still remaining true to his family. If he needs an escape, he sure as HECK can find one that will take the needs of his family into consideration. Do NOT accept this.

It sounds like he has been selfish for a long time, and you have been accepting of it, desperate, because you have been afraid of losing him...

Get Harley's book "Field Guide to Relationships", t takes about Buyers, Renter, and Freeloaders. Your WH sounds like a Renter at best...

OW's travel in May could be good timing for you to move into Plan B. This will give you an opportunity to negotiate a return to the family and no more OW. TIme to turn on the charm, offer him the best the family can give, all the family time and snugggling he can take. When OW comes back into town, he will either tell her adios (can't live with the guilt) or try to start things back again. If it is the latter, then have your Plan B letter ready and move to Plan B. After a week (or longer) of all you he will feel the full effect of not having you.

The timing would be about right, a few more weeks of Plan A, your love for him will probably still be intact (can you feel it slipping away?) and you have time to craft a letter and prepare for the kid logistics.

BUT, in order for Plan B to work, you have to do this right...for you, not to manipulate him, but for YOU. There can be NO or VERY limited contact in Plan B. No more texting, no phone calls, set up an intermediary to work out kid visitations. Be clear in your Plan B letter when visits will take place, and he will need to TAKE the kids elsewhere, no more getting his home or Juz fix.

You don't want to stay in Plan A TOO long because it ends up enabling the A. He is getting many of his EN's fulfilled by you and the family, and it affords him the time to spend with OW. When you take the EN fulfillment away, then he has to get those EN's fulfilled by the only person left, OW, and they generally fail because OP and WS are generally selfish people looking out for themselves...

SO, do the best Plan A you can do, think about a PLan B down the road (please don't wait longer than 2 months) and enjoy yourself...

Well - update.......

He arrived home just in time for us to go to the movies. It was ok. Just ok. The kids sat between us. He didnt try to touch me at all.

We get home, put the kids to bed. He sits down in the massage chair and is ohhhing and ahhhing. I said (thinking ENs, good wifey). Would you like a massage?

For the next hour I gave him a back massage and he fell asleep (he'd taken a sleeping tablet before hand). I cried and cried whilst I was doing it, silent tears. It was so sad. It is something we used to do all the time, but haven't done for years. I actually said that to him, we haven't done this for a long time. He said 'I know'

Then I felt him to sleep on the lounge and went to bed. He said he would be in soon.

Well, 2.30am and he was well and truly snoring on the lounge, sleeping tab working wonders. So I reached into the pocket of his jeans and got his phone.

YUP - this is where the fun begins.

No msgs from her from the afternoon/evening. But all yesterday morning (after he had left her placE) msgs from her saying 'I told 'blah blah' at work about you' and 'i miss you already' and 'did yo like licking the sticky dessert off me' I was sick.

But more to the point the messages from him to her were still on there, very rare, whenever Ive snooped before I can't find his sent messages, he usually gets rid of them straight away. And there were messages like 'you looked so sexy in that suit this morning' and 'i miss you like crazy already - love you heaps, Marky'

Grrrr - IM the one who calls him Marky, no one else is allowed. No one else!

So as you can see he is still WELL AND TRULY IN THE FOG. And I see what people have said about how I CANT break up the affair.

I found on here yesterday a post from 'trueheart' it was a letter for WS. It was 3 pages long and I thought he would freak gving him 3 pages.

So last night (before i found the sms's - oh and a photo she'd sent to him of her naked covered in chocolate or something <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ) I said to him 'i have a letter i'd like you to read, it's 3 pages long and it's not actually from me' He was a bit confused!

I explained to himi what it was and said 'you may not read it now, or even believe it now, but will you give it a try' and he said 'yes'.

He has taken it this morning.

But - this morning i was BAD.

My worst times are morning times. I just dont cope with it all in the morning, like now I have the kids racing round me asking me for food, I need to clean, Im exhausted after 2.5 hours sleep and Im sooo depressed.

Anyway, when his alarm went off (which i changed after he came into bed at 3am -i finished my snooping and woke him up and said 'come ot bed otherwise DS will jump on you in 3 hours time!" I changed his alarm from 6am to 7am. There was no reason he had to leave that early, he just wanted to get out early)

Anyway - I lost it. I just kept talking and talking about 'are you coming home tonight' and he said 'I just woke up, IM still asleep' and I said 'you're fobbing, Im not a doormat Mark' and I said other stuff from my letter abuot how my ENs aren't beling met. That I dont have my partner to converse with, who admired me, how I trusted, the father who was committed etc. And how it had only been twenty five days. He said " I Know'

I said ' I talk too much don't I' he said 'sometimes' I said 'sorry, it's just sometimes I cant' cope. Im committed to fighting for this Mark but we cant' do it whilst she is on the scene and atm you want her on the scene'

no response

I said 'what did you mean by your message the other day after the show about 'I think it was a step in the right direction, and I hope you do too' He said 'it was a nice day, like old times' I said 'did u mean a step for us?' he said 'and the whole family'

I spoke (u see - I spoke too much) about how she was meeting his emotional needs, and I needed to do that.

I asked was he really going on all these long walks or was he just having sex in her bed! He said he was going on the long walks (but ommitted the fact that no doubt he returns to have wild sex!)

I am actually starting to feel better typing it all out, and I thank you for that!

Well, of course, really, for the rest of the night I couldn't sleep, cause the messages to her about how much he missed her were like a minute after ones to me about how he would be here asap that night so we could get kids to movies. And that makes me sick.

A little bit of love DID die away - and that makes me sick too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

DS4 was up when he left today and he was very very clingy 'dont go to work daddy, stay with us today. We dont want you to go to work. What are we going to do tonight when you get home'

I was still in bed but hearing all of this and he fobbed off every answer.

He actually rang me yesterday, rrather than text messaged me one time. This morning I said to him 'it was so nice to have you ring me today, nice ot hear your voice rather than a text'

Oh - I know I probably shouldn't have done this but I got rid of all the kinky photos on his phone that she had sent him. Makes me so sick. They are mixed in between photos of our kids that I have sent him, or photos of this big cruise ship that he took the other day when in town.

And I also deleted from his phone her UK mobile number. But you know what one of the messages that he had from her on his phone was. Her mums phone number in the UK. Typical my friggen WH to ring HER mum (cause her dad has cancer so I am sure he woudl be ringing to see if she is ok - but WTF - what if it's to say 'yes I am serious about your daughter, yes I have a wife and 3 children') This bit really scared me. I deleted that message too.

I feel so lost today. So very lost. D Day was 30th March - my god - it's only 19th April today.

Oh. another thing I said to him was how sad I was that he was with her and wanting her on MY birthday and on our son, Rowan (who was stillborn 8 years ago) birthday. Rowans birthday has always been a very special day to us, and actually, looking back now - WH was funny about it this year - I know now why don't I.

I said he needed to find another job, he couldn't work where she was working. I kept calling her SHE or HER all night, never her name.

Oh - one other thing I said this morning in bed was 'Im so scared that you are saying horrible things about me to her' And he said 'Never Juz, never'. Hmmmmm.

Anyway - dont know what else to say to you cept life sucks!

juz

oh - i said 'does everyone at work know' and he said 'probably' and I said 'did u tell them' and he said 'NO' and I said 'did she' and he said 'no' and I said (knowing that i'd read that SMS that she HAD just told someone else at work) 'C'mon Mark' and he said 'well, probably some people' And I said 'well, that's lovely isn't it. Something to be proud of' and he said 'no, it's not.'

Juzzie, deleting the photos and messages might not have been the greatest idea. He will now guard his mobile phone like a rottweiler. I very much doubt you'll get access to it again.

There are many people who drop their lovers like a hot brick on discovery. Yours, unfortunately, is like mine. He can't quite let go of the family but she's got her claws in deep and he is feeling so torn. Poor Marky!!

Did you take note of any of the numbers on his phone? It is very likely that her parents do NOT know he is married with 3 kids and has a wife who wants him home. MB is big on exposure. It might be timely to call her mother and let her know what's going on. You've got nothing to lose. It's just a shame she lives so far away but she will probably not be impressed.

Juzzie, one of the posters mentioned STD's above. If you choose to sleep with him you are also exposing yourself to all her past conquests. Protect yourself. There is not enough about this issue on MB IMO.

It's so hard to reason with a WS. They really can't see that they are in a temporary state. They forget they once felt the same way about you but the feelings moved over and children, bills, household duties got in the way of the passion. Is your WH being responsible about his financial duties to you and the kids. That can be a big issue. Often they start spending heaps on maintaining their single life style. Make sure you know what's going on at the bank.

Take care. Do you have any friends who could help you out? TT

Dear TT,

That is one thing I am glad to say. He is being V V responsible with money. I check it all the time. She is keeping him - she must be because he has hardly touched a cent (cept for the fact that he is having to fill the car up more often because of the extra driving - grrr)

Regarding the msgs/photos. I KNEW i shouldnt have - but I was so SICK by the bloody photo. SO SO SO SICK.

Also - i deleted her mothers UK number. And after I deleted it I thought 'damn it, I should have sent it to my ph first.' I would have seriously considered ringing her, or at least get my sister to ring her and tell her.

I do have alot of supportive friends and family (Although both my sisters are overseas, one living in Germany the other one on holidays in the UK for the next 2 weeks - OMG it would have been PERFECT. My sister could have rung her from London - bugger!!!!!!! Why didnt I think of that. Why why why.

He's texted me a few times today - but nothing 'personal' I rang him at one point about a bill that I just paid over the phone that was all mucked up.

He was ok on the phone, answered happily but said 'ok, bye' at the end.

I tried to stay happy and chirpy on the ph. I know that he probably wont come home tonight, that he'll go to her place. He's had his family 'fix' and I probably scared him off this morning with my neediness carry on.

I don't know whether to ask him if he read the letter from 'trueheart'. Would he even tell me the truth if he had? And if he is soooo dense in the fog with her still, will it even make a dent?

On a good note, because he was here with us last night, and this morning the kids are much more settled today. Just don't know what to tell them when he sms's me to say he's staying at HER place.

Should I get DD7 to ring him? He is off to the pain management dr tomorrow about his knee/leg, so will then be off working at an office site near there. Which means we can't go visit him at 'work' tomorrow.

Not sure what Friday is bringing. He was going to ask for a flex day for Monday. I might msg him now and ask him if he's remembered to do it - not that he may spend it with us? Who knows. That means there'll be a Sat, Sun, Mon (Flex) and Tues (Anzac Day - public holiday for Australia). Wouldn't it be lovely to have all 4 days with him - but just like Easter, I bet he pisses off to her place for most of it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

jus

Grrr. It's awful when you have to accept the crumbs they offer. I don't see any harm in having your son phone him. So, he didn't mention any of the numbers/pictures being erased? Do you think he hasn't noticed yet?

You know Juzzie, it's very hard to compete with the heady heights of an A. I would imagine the life you offer at the moment just seems dull in comparison. Children wear you out, paying bills is boring, complacency sets in. But where do they expect an A is leading to? It either carries on undetected until it naturally dies, or they get discovered and go back to their marriage, or they risk all and leave the marriage for the A partner. And then they do it all again - children, bills, complacency!!! Only second time round they've got the commitment still to the kids from their first marriage.... Madness.

Do your parents/inlaws know? I can't remember if you already mentioned this. There's no point in protecting him now. Personally I think if a person drops the A upon discovery, there is no need to expose it to everyone, but when they carry on cake-eating, you need to do everything possible to shatter the fantasy. TT

MIL knows - FIL there isn't one (well, actually there is but I have met him twice - funnily enough WH doesn't talk to his father because of what he did to his mother! HA!) His brother doesn't know. Don't know whether to ring him about that - his brother is a bit pyscho.

I got a text - who is the person on here who said be prepared for it to get worse before it gets better???

I wrote him a text saying 'would u like to come home for tea and we can pull down the back yard thingy. If you must 'escape' later at least the the kids have seen u and I together'

I sent that about about 3.15pm.

At 4.15 I received 'Can't come home 2nite. I gotta sort something out! Can't explain but need 2 sort out once and for all! Sorry.'

I wrote back 'I know you can't explain, I sent u email about taht this arvo. Im here 24/7 if u need to talk, or text or just silence, Im here. I'll tell the kids ur working late again tonight'

I then cried and cried. And sms'd mum an asked if we could come for dinner as we were going to be alone. and seh said 'YES please, come please, whenever.'

I am hoping (without too much hope) that he HAS read trueloves letter.

TT - the thing is this 'girl' (and I call her taht - she's only 25 and a very young 25) has said several times how 'she can't have children'. Well, neither can WH - he's had the snip! (Which, as an aside, is why theyve prob def had unprotected sex)

Boy oh boy oh boy is this going to be a very long 24 hours.

I have texted both my sisters (who still contact him frequently and viceversa) and asked them to text him sometime tonight. About something insignificant but that reminds him that he has more to lose than just 'us'

well - better get ready to go to mums...

Being available and ready to help isn't attractive to the WS. They only understand rejection.

Go keep yourself busy and see how much faster he comes back.

L.

Thanks Orchid - I wish I could be so damn strong. Grrr - I wish there was a roadmap out there for me!! lol!

And THANKYOU for the link to Truehearts letter. If it hasn't made a difference to him - yet - at least I feel Ive done the right thing giving it to him (both in hard copy and by email). Maybe he will see thru the fog - one day soon?

I still can't conquer that reverse babble though! lol

The best stuff won't work if his head is up his [censored] and he is a WS. So read it and save your ammo. Your time will come.

As for the RB, practice. I did. In the bathroom, practiced talking to the mirror..... in time it started flowing naturally. Took a while. Had to wait for my mind and heart to sync up and put myself back in control. That took time. When it hit, I was ready. The WS didn't stand a chance. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Yep, gotta find that time to stand in front of the mirror to practise without the wee'ns hanging off me saying 'mummy, what ya doin?' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just started ADs yesterday - wish I had gone on them 3 weeks ago - at least I may have been a little bit more in sync with myself by now.

God I hate that he has made me crazy. I HATE THAT!! He has made me need medication for gods sake - GRRRR. I was such a strong person - look at me now...

Looks like Plan B may be going into effect tomorrow whether I was ready for it to or not.

jus

U need t/b ready for it or it will lose it's impact.

I practiced after my little one went to sleep. Just ran the shower a bit longer so no one heard me practicing. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Orchid, I was just over at your RB link. So many of those things WH has said to me.
'weve been growing apart'
'ive so much in common with her'(cause he's known her all of 8 weeks now and been sleeping with her for 5 of them!)
But one I received by text the other day, which I wish I had known how to RB was 'i know you still love me, but I also know you are very angry with me, why haven't u kicked me out'

HOw do I RB that?

Mind you ,all this may well be redundant after tomorrow. I know from my dad that he was definately at her house at 8pm tonight (so not out walking sorting his head out) He messaged MY DAD (who has always been HIS dad cause as I said b4 he hasn't spoken to his dad for 17 years) about some amazing cricket results from some player. Dad wrote back and said 'blah blah was on 196 when I left, what was final score' but WH never wrote back.

Dad was at work so knew nothing of the sms I received from WH at 4pm. I am staying with the kids down at mum and dads tonight (same street!) and it was only when dad got home half an hour ago that I found out he had heard from him

Doesn't the idiot realise he LOSES ALL OF THAT TOO!!

So i told dad I was so pleased he had written back because as of tomorrow, if WH has done the 'i have to decided one way or the other- and it's the other'Then none of us will contact him by sms.

Anyway- i was just wondering about how to RB those statements above. I have been talking to mum about it tonight and reading her some of your RB comments from that thread!

You are very clever! LOL

Jus

Juzzie...

please list your boundaries....

you need boundaries....

explain to me how it is acceptable in your universe to tell the father of your children who is NOT coming home tonight...

'I know you can't explain, I sent u email about taht this arvo. Im here 24/7 if u need to talk, or text or just silence, Im here. I'll tell the kids ur working late again tonight'

Juzzie...
do not EVER EVER EVER agree to a dishonest person to LIE for them...

you MUST stand for truth and honesty...
and I am NOT saying tell the children horrible things about their dad...or the truth about their dad...

BUT
do not let this fish off the hook and AGREE to lie FOR him....

babble back...

this is very very stressful on the children...
I will have to give a lot of thought as to the answer to when they ask where's daddy?

You realize dear...that you are choosing to visit upon the children great fear and pain...but as you say...
you are correct there really is no acceptable explaination for such things....

buh-bye...

juzzie

list
your boundaries
stake your boundaries
claim your boundaries...

plan A is ALL about being honest when the WS has no idea what honesty is...
plan A is all about being strong....

without powerstruggling the insanity...

ARK

I love RB, and Orchid is the expert...I'll try my hand at it too...

The main thing you have to be VERY clear about, is you have NO control over the WS. MB techniques are not a manipulation or trick to GET them to love you or end their A. MB techniques teach you concepts that can be used in any M, infidelity or not, to help the partners fall BACK in love with each other. Remember, you loved each other once, you can love each other again.

You cannot SAY or DO ANYTHING that will stop the A. That will need to happen on its own. He is thinking and feeling guilty, never fear about that. The A is intoxicating in more ways than one. Love and endorphins are swimming in his brain, and he is using her and the A as escape mostly from the guilt he is feeling. The A is an addiciton, and much like alcohol, you have NO control over their choices...

OK, that being said, STOP thinking that you are going to say the magic words or do the magic deed that will turn them around. What you can do is change the M and YOUR part in it, so when the A falls, you can recover and repair the M with a newer better W...YOU!

IF you resort to LB's and having your Taker out ("What about me...?") right now, then THAT is what he will remember when the OW is whiney and LBing too... You need to be the better alternative when the A egg cracks and scrambles...

The RB thing...

What I know about guys (and people in general) is they like to have people agree with them...so that is what you do, you agree with their statements, but you turn it around at the end...

Let's try these...

'weve been growing apart'

Yes Mark, we have, and now the OW is driving us even more apart. What are we going to do about it...continue growing apart or work on growing back together...

'ive so much in common with her'(cause he's known her all of 8 weeks now and been sleeping with her for 5 of them!)

Yes you do, and with me too, you have a dilemna...

But one I received by text the other day, which I wish I had known how to RB was 'i know you still love me, but I also know you are very angry with me, why haven't u kicked me out'

This is an interesting one...WS often want the BSs to kick them out, to initiate a D, to be the bad guy. They are racked with so much guilt they honestly can't deal with thinking it may be THEIR fault the M has failed...

So to answer this..."I do still love you and I am still angry with you, do you want to move out?"

Throw it back on him about moving out...and this will be the beginning of knowing his plans, of pushing him closer to HER, and closer to the reality burst of the A bubble.

OK, so you are upset about the phone...I would be too. Confront him, but do it honestly and rationally. Save this info for later when you need the strength or he tries to minimize his contact with her... Try to make it a safe place for him...no LB's...but DO confront...

YES< contact her mum, if you can...


Also, since he is close to your family, what kind of pressure can THEY put on him...

And, I would go further than calling her "SHE" or "HER", I would call her a homewrecker, or HW for short, or The Oher Woman.

I'm so sorry you are in this situation. I agree with Orchid - don't be available to him. I was in your place a month ago and went to NC - I didn't do a NC letter. Just didn't call. Once he realized that I was starting to do Ok without him, he came back. Also all that alone time with OW did the trick. When I spoke with him and asked if he was happy, he said not really. I told him that I would think she made him very happy since he was willing to give up his wife, family, and friends. His words - "when you spend time with someone, you start to see their true colors"

The OW will become needier than you ever were - just give her a chance.

Hang in there and work on you. Make your life better for you and your children.

You are in my prayers.

Nkay

Ark - I know i did wrongly. It ISNT acceptable in my universe to lie for him - i just was/am at a loss at what to do.

What should I have as boundaries??

I know for sure that NO CONTACT WITH OW with the children.

That when we go to watch daddy play soccer NO WAY is she allowed to be there.

But with regard to other boundaries - I am at a loss.

I really am.

It is weak of me I know but I just dont know where to start or what to say or do?

Please help.

Jus

Still Here - Thanks for that RB! No one is probably up now to help me, but it's almost 4pm and I know that any minute now I will get a msg from him saying why he isn't coming home tonight be it 'sorry juz, just can't come home tonight' or 'I promise I'll be home 2mrw night'

How do i respond to those in RB? Do I say ' I'm sorry you can't come home tonight either, that you need to spend another night with Home Wrecker'. "I am glad that you can promise to be home 2mrw night, I can't promise we'll be here though?'

How are they?

He has messsaged me like normal today - even spoke to me at one point. Then at 2.30 he wrote and said 'have you given any more thought to my suggestion that you go out on Sunday for just a girls day, oh and a message just before that that said 'Sean (his brother) has called me, wonder what he wants' (his brother doesn't know - unless his mother has now told him - which may have happened)

I wrote back 'I wonder what Sean wanted to talk to you about? I don't know about Sunday, Sunday is too far away to think about now' (he always has been saying to me about 'can't think about that, its too far away')

But it's really - what to say to the message I KNOW I'll get soon that worries me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I dont want to LB but still RB....

Jus

Nkay,

"When I spoke with him and asked if he was happy, he said not really. I told him that I would think she made him very happy since he was willing to give up his wife, family, and friends"

I LOVE that line!!!! I can so use that line because he has said that he isn't happy there. But he has said he isn't happy here either <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I am so glad that he came back to you - I really hope that it happens here too.

What boundaries did you set? How on earth did you get on with your life - oh my god - it seems like my life is coming to an end, and I was such a strong woman (well - thought I was!)

I know that OW must be very very needy. I think that is why she sends him the pornographic photos of herself all the time. Because that is one of the things she really has a hold on (literally! Lol) over him.

What made me sick SICK with the photo the other day of her covered with chocolate is that I had sent a photo from the picnic that we were at of our little 18mth old filthy dirty. WH wrote back and said 'is that dirt or chocolate or both' I wrote back and said 'both'.

Then the next day, on her photo to him she said 'here is ME all covered in chocolate, aren't I cute too'

I mean OMFG - what a psychotic psycho B!tch is she. To dare to compare her naked 'eat me' photo with our little girl. So I know she is VERY VERY needy.

I was so sick with worry all last night over the 'finality' of that text I got yesterday. And yet today - he wrote to me at 7.30am and said 'morning juz, what time did the tribe awake' he wrote at 7.50 and asked if I'd seen his sunglasses. He wrote at 10am and told me he was about to leave to see the specialist (for his painmanagment of knee injury) he wrote at 10.20 and said 'damn - appointment is 11.30 not 10.30, will have to sit here and have coffee' He wrote at 2pm and asked how my day had been at the bike park with the kids.

So - WTF is going on???????

I must admit I have answered him - not every time, but I did say 'goodmorning, the youngens are up DD7 is still asleep'. I didnt answer him about the sunnies. I actually rang him about an email re his soccer game but he was just about to go into drs so he rang me back after wards and I did msg him about how much fun the kids were having.

You know, usually when Im driving in the car and the mobile phone is on 'speaker' the kids WONT shut up and im constantly saying 'im on teh phone'. Well, when he rang me back after drs the kids were soooo quiet in teh car. Here I was WANTING them to be calling and talking and they wouldn't . ihad to gesture to DD7 to say 'hi daddy' and she did and chatted and she did say 'where are you' but didnt say 'when are you coming home' (damn it) but my very sensitive DS4, when I gestured to him - he closed his eyes and pretended to be asleep! As I have posted before he is a very very very very perceptive little boy and it actually scares me ALOT some of the things he has come out with over the past few weeks.

So - anyway - way of track. I truly admire that you were able to go NC. I so wish I could. I also DO believe it would work here too. How on earth did you cope though?

Mornings are my worst time. I think it's cause when Im asleep I 'forget' how bad things are and suddenly I awake and whammo - my life is upsidedown. It takes me at least 3-4 hours to snap out of that. Which is so hard cause the kids are asking for breakfast and things need to be done etc. God help us when school goes back in a week.

Anyway - thankyou so much for posting. And anything you may feel that will help - or anything u think I am doing that is way way way off track - please let me know.

Hugs
Justine

Maybe Orchid will be around soon with some awesome RB, but if nobody else comes up with a better idea, I would just tell him, "I'm sorry you are making that choice. It hurts your children when you are not here with them as part of our family."

And just let him be for tonight unless he calls, in which case be very nice and polite, without LB'ing. Perhaps close with "We miss you" or "We wish you were here", but not saying it in a clingy or needy way. Then drop the subject.

Thanks NSYN. I have said similar lines before like last week when he was here to put the kids to bed, my DD18mth (because daddy put her to bed) when she woke up the next morning her first call out was 'daddy daddy daddy'.

I wrote to him right then and said 'it's heartbreaking to hear D calling out Daddy Daddy and Daddy not being here' and he wrote back ' I know darl'.

Well - I am glad you bloody know - get your ar$e over here! Bloody men!!!

He won't call tonight - he doesn't call anymore - everything is text's now. He doesn't even ring to say goodnight to the kids - because they will ask where he is.

Maybe I should GET them to ring him to say goodnight???

Thanks for your post mate - its now 4.20pm and no msg as yet.... Hmmmmmm. Betcha he is composing it as I type to you!

juz

It's 11:21 pm here and I just popped in on my way to bed.

I see no reason why any of the kids that want to shouldn't ring their dad before they go to bed. You can bring up the subject in the mornings when they ask for him by saying, "If Daddy's not here, I'll let you call him just before bedtime."

Then when they ask to call it's them, not you. And if he doesn't answer, let them leave him a nice long message. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

PS You're totally right about that insane woman and her chocolate!!! Be glad she is desperate and needy - things will go faster if she's not pretending to be normal, lol.

Ok - I got it - 5.20pm. This is what he said 'Am still at Kurnell, Surprise Surprise! Not coming home tonight. Got 3 outa 4 PCsdone. Very stressed! Gotta come back 2mrw now and do the worst 1 then go 2 Royal then Parra!. Saw D's pic! She's a daredevil like Connor I am sure of it! Sounds like kids had fun!'

Not even a SORRY in it - not even a bloody S>O>R>R>Y>

This was my response (thanks to you nsyn!)

"Im sorry your making that choice. It hurts ur chn wen urnot here with them as part of our family. They've already asked where u were and I said 'if daddy's not here I'll let you call him just b4 bedtime.' Kurnell sounds like rough day. Im pretty stressed 2 and could do with some companionship myself."

Orchid RB: Yes we have. I haven't moved, why have you? Do you smell?


Orchid RB: Really. So that's why you've been acting odd. Seems like hanging around a bimbo is rubbing off on you. LOL!!! Btw, I heard that same line at the beginning. I was in shock....later I learned to play back those very words, just to his distain. LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Orchid RB: Uhm....wouldn't be too sure about that. I love my H not the Ws who you've become. 2 different beasts you know. As for kicking you out...well....been giving it some deep thought. Hm...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Orchid RB:


Orchid: Good come back line. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Orchid RB: I recall telling my then WS that for all our misery someone I knew had BETTER be happy. Since is wasn't my family, then he'd better show us he is happy. I didn't care if the OW was happy or not. Then I demanded he show us immediately how happy he was. Never forget that distorted face in my living room. I almost cracked up. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: Good come back line....u r getting the hang of this RB thingy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: My boundary started with a long list then went down to 1 major item: Get the OW OUT of my life. Even if that meant losing the WS (not a big loss btw....).


Orchid: This is gross..... I mention something about a 'stinky OW'. Btw, you can let others know about her chocolate slathering...... you know I love chocolate but this is making me sick. LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: His momments of santity will get less and less.....unless you keep giving him enough rope to hang himself. WS' can't hold onto a rope. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />



Orchid: No More Answering. Let him wonder what u r up to. You do realize u r a hot topic of their A discussion. Lots of time is spent on scheming against you. If you are strong enough to plant seeds of doubt in the WS' mind, it will spill over into their A convos and create chaos (affectionately knows as LB from afar). LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

is wat i wrote ok Orchid? tonight? the last post?

Also - am seriously SERIOUSLY considering sending your letter you wrote the other day. I just transcribed it into an sms and it's sitting in my saved folder.

thanks for the RB - will study it fuller when I get the kids to bed.

Jus
PS - should i get the kids to ring him?

Maybe just change the last part to just mentione 'seems a lot of people appear stressed....but not you Ws, you r suppose to be happy giving others your misery.'

L.

He just rang.

Must have scared him when I said I'd get the kids to ring. Didnt want me to do that when she was there I'd say. Damn it - should make DD7 ring back again in half an hour when I know he's in her place.

I said to him 'so what did ur text mean yesterday?' he said 'what one' (DUH)

The one that says 'Ive gotta sort things out once and for all'

He said 'oh, it's too hard to explain over the phone'

I said 'well i dont ever see you in person Mark'

He said 'I know, soon.'

GRRR - He has all the control here - doesn't he.


My dd7 asked him 'where are you daddy? and he said 'at work still'

'But I miss you when are you coming home'

'soon'

Yeah right.

OMG Orchid! I sent your message!!! After he rang the kids tonight my DD7 was INCONSOLIBLE when I put her to bed 'where is my daddy, i want my daddy, y dont i ever get to see him anymore, can Connor wake me up early so I see him before he goes to work, is Friday a day off for daddy'

I AM SO ANGRY WITH HIM. So I sent the message - changed it a little bit to add in about DD7s reaction tonight.

Well - I may not get an answer, but at least it will upset him. He got upset a few days ago when I said he wasn't seeing the children.

Well, not 5 minutes after I sent the message to him the phone rang. I thought 'OMG it will be him' (but deep down didnt think he'd have the guts to ring me)

And it wasnt him, it was his brother. (who didnt know)

BIL says to me 'hi juz, how are you?'

I said 'well S I am actually up to [censored]. Your brother is having an affair. blah blah blah'

Well poor BIL was shocked to say the least and totally devestated as he looks up to Mark so much. And he said to me 'well he may be my brother, but you are my family and what he has done is so wrong and we are here for you 100%. He kept saying 'omg, its just like dad, its just like dad.'

I asked him to ring his mum because poor MIL has had no-one to talk to about it all. And then about 40mins later MIL rang me and ive just gotten off the phone to her (65min ph call, thank god its a local call! LOL)

She is just so totally devestated. She has known from D-Day but she just is so ashamed and disgusted with her son. And at least she will have her other son to talk to about it now. She said she can't eat she can't sleep (i said - join the club!). He won't return her calls, I said 'thats cause he is so guilty'. And this is the son that rang his mother at least once if not twice a week before.

I explained to her about MB and how WS are possessed by aliens.

SHe just rang back again! She wanted to know if the work number she had for Mark would be able to be used to speak to HouseWrecker. I said 'why?' she said "I wanna ring her and tell her what a slut she is andhow she has destroyed my grandchildren's lives etc'

I said 'NO! Don't do that. That will make HER look like the victim to Mark. He will console HER because she has been picked on.'

We have to act like she doesn't exist - that she is not WORTH our comment.

MIL agreed when I explained it like that.

But - talking about comments.

Next week (depedning on the response i get from the letter text from tonight) I still wanna take the kids into his work to meet him for lunch.

Now - I would LOVE to have a one-liner ready as I walk past reception. And I know this is the best place that you can give them to me.

I was thinking of something along the lines of 'Oh - yes, I didn't recognise you with clothes on, Ive seen so many photos of you on my husbands phone naked'

Or even something less long and convuluted like

"Oh, it's you Root - I mean Ruth' (remembering that in Australia root means 'f^<k'

Anyway - i was going to go for an early night tonight! lol! But have spent at least 3 hours on the phone!

Jus

Juz,

I can SO relate to the difficulties you are having with DD wanting her Daddy. My son is 4 and his Dad (XH) lives in another country. He just left after a 2 week visit. Now, for the next 2-3 weeks, he will act out in everyway possible. My otherwise delightful little boy becomes defiant, does listen, is mischevious, nasty, argumentative...you name it. I wish I could offer you some magic salve, but I never found one. The best I found was, "I know, I miss Daddy, too." Validate her feelings.

With regard to OW working with your WH. Have you exposed to his workplace, yet? Might be a good idea. Perhaps your visit to his office would be the ideal time....Walk in and say in a VERY loud voice, "Gee, Root, does everyone here know your sleeping with my husband, breaking apart my marriage and breaking the hearts of my 3 darling children?"

Regards,

BB

Juzzie, someone once told me my WH had HUTAS (Head Up The [censored] Syndrome) and sadly your husband has also been infected. Your wonderful MIL will, like mine, be so saddened by her stupid son's actions. It sounds atypical behaviour for him, making it even harder to accept.

Your WH is intoxicated at the moment. You just make sure you look your best and act in a dignified manner. It will baffle him and make him even more guilty.

As for the chocolate loving OW, I'd give her a violet crumble and tell her to shove it in her biggest orifice, and you don't mean her mouth (as you waft past the reception looking like a yummy mummy and don't lose your composure).

I hope you go into Plan B fairly soon. He has no idea yet how much he will miss you and, if I'm honest, I just like you and can't stand the way he's treating you. I hate that your little girl was so upset over his absence. The night one of my daughters found out, she had a panic attack and I drove her to hospital at midnight (she's asthmatic which doesn't help). Having been through this as a child, your WH absolutely 100% knows how wrong and damaging this is. I sense he doesn't want to hurt OW. Well, someone is bound to get deeply hurt over all this and better it be her than a family of five with so much more to lose. You're in my thoughts. TT

NO on-liners with OW...do not stoop to her level. You are not on her same level... If she says ANYTHING to you, you say, I'd rather not talk to the woman who is wrecking a family...or I don't talk with people of so low character to step into a M...

Think again about allowing your MIL to contact the OW...although not OK for YOU to, the pressure from his family can be VERY helpful in bursting this A bubble. Let the alien or the OW know that if he has fantasies of a simple D, inviting the OW into his family, he is SORELY mistaken...there will NOT be welcoming arms. This can be an incredibly powerful wedge between them...who is he going to pick...his mother or OW?

Think on this...

Now, other than being the best W you can be...stop spending so much time thinking of the right things to say...as though what you say or do will stop the A. This is another part of his life where he doesn't think about the family. Other than reminding him he has an adorable family at home, you be the best YOU you can be.

That would be almost criminally fun.

Juzzie walks in, shepherding three beautifull little angels ahead of her. All the reception ladies ooh and ahh (except for one, who is no lady).

Beaming proudly, Juzzie walks up to the kindest, smilingest, gossipy-lookingest lady of all. "We're here to have lunch with MY HUSBAND!!!!!" Juzzie takes herself firmly in check and lowers her voice slightly. "Could you let him know that we're here?"

"Oh, your children are so sweet," coos the receptionist.

"Yes, aren't they?" Juzzie purrs. "Ok children, run ahead to see Daddy." She lowers her voice conspiratorially, speaking just loud enough to be heard by the nice lady, and the other nice ladies on each side who are trying very hard to act like they are working and not eavesdropping. "They are all just broken-hearted by WH's affair with Root....th." Juzzie gestures in Root....th's direction with a jerk of the head. "They cry themselves to sleep at night, and wake up sobbing because their Daddy wasn't home again." Shakes head sadly. "It's terrible, just terrible. He doesn't even act like the same person anymore. Can you believe, she's even sent him pictures of herself naked and covered in chocolate?!"

The nice lady's mouth is hanging open, and the receptionists on each side of her type furiously, nonsense words, as the full meaning sinks in. Juzzie brightens visibly. "Well, it's been so nice seeing you again," she finishes cheerily, "I mustn't keep MY HUSBAND!!!!!!!!! waiting any longer."

Spine rigidly militant, she marches into WH's office with dignity, as if unaware of the maelstrom unleashed in her wake.

The other receptionists eye Root.....th with slanted, suspicious eyes, wondering if their husbands or boyfriends will be next on the maneater's list. As the darling little family emerges from the office, one tiny stripling perched on the father's arm, the stern gaze of the outraged ladies transfers to WH. What kind of man leaves those adorable children for......they look back at her.......a woman of such low morals as to tear apart a home for her own selfish lusts.

The receptionist looks down at her chocolate, then at the homewrecker, then back at her chocolate. She shudders.

The office is never the same again.

I like it neak!!!!!!

BB

BB - it is so sad isn't it. This morning, no mention of him by the kids - but my DS4 has not stopped hugging me or telling me how much he loves me.

Again - hard morning. hole in the heart syndrome Im starting to call it. It heals up over the day, but first thing in the morning it's there - a gaping massive hole in my chest.

Gotta get these kids dressed and off to playgroup. But they are absorbed in the Wiggles atm.

jus

PS - no 'morning' text from WH today!!!

TT - I think that plan B may be today you know? It cetainly is regarding the rest of my family. Ive spoken to them all that they are not to msg him at all any more. Gotta speak to my friends and tell them too.

I hope I can be strong enough. I wouldn't be surprised if he comes home tonight now (Friday night - my text - guilt).

If he does, he may just turn up. If he does text me about it I will use my RB line that I thought up last night about 'we may not be here'

He sure has HUTAS syndrome big time!! THis is the daddy who would be LATE for work so he could attend assemblies at school etc!

StillMakingIt.

Wow about the MIL comment. I didn't think that that would be the right thing to do? I will re-assess taht. Do you think it should be done now or perhaps in a few weeks (if we are still this horrendous fog)

I am trying to be the best I can be - I thought I used to be that! LOL

Thanks Mate
Jus

Still - I was joking about the violet crumble! I agree with the saying "****** hath no fury like a woman scorned" and Plan A is counter-instinctive. You have to keep calm, no LB's, when actually you might be wanting to kick and scream. It's tough.

Juzzie - I hope you continue to find the strength and support you need. I think you have an interesting weekend ahead. I don't have time to go back over the thread now, but how did you find out about the A? TT

Neak - I think you are practising for the next book! Nice scenario.

Yay!!! Finally my internet is working again!!!! (The server went down and my brother didn't get home till just now.)

Some days I don't know if my imagination is a good thing or a bad thing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Breeze by...never looking at her, but close enough for her to hear... and say, "I wonder what that vile smell is", stop, looking the opposite way, Then get a lightbulb look on your face and say..." oh, I know it's root rot!"

Well the [censored] has well and truly hit the fan and I am now in Plan B.

Got this at 1pm today

Sorry it's taken this long to reply to your text last night. I haven't abandoned the kids! I know they upset and confused! I do miss em but just dont know now 2explain it to em. I know u are getting v angry and that's fair, I deserve it. Its just very hard being in same place as u atm. I keep wanting to distance myself from u. I'll always be available for anything to do with the kids just can't live there anymore. Im sorry but that's how I feel. I know it's not what u wanna hear but that's the wait it is atm.Also need kids to get used to me not there every day even if it hurts atm. I wanna move out Juz. Mark'

WEll - world shattered again. I knew sending the ultimatum text could do this - but still shattered.

I didn't haven't answered. I just got this from him...3pm

U Ok? I still worry about you? We've had many very special memories the last 15 yeras that I'll never forget. We've also got 3 wonderful children u should be v proud of caues I certainly am.Please take Sunday as a U day and just go somewhere with friends or yourself and comeback whateva time u want? Please! Let me know u ok and that u will go outSunday? I'll be there before the kids wake.


I haven't responded to this either.

OMG. What do I do.

I know that on Sunday if i take him up on the offer, its so he can come here and pack, and explain stuff to the kids. I also know that that is when I say about 'no contact of kids with OW'

HELP ME OH - HOW DO I ANSWER THESE MESSAGES OR DONT I?

It's D day all over again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

U take a U day on your schedule. Don't let him rewrite history or dictate how he can separate you from your children.

He is babbling, can you see it? How stupid of him to think he can have an R with the children w/o you.

Throw this at him....ask him why does his children feel they have to reassure YOU of their love? What did he do for them to feel this way?

Try answering him in questions. The more he wonders, the harder it is for him to wander. Get it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

U and the kids are a single package. Let him know there is no negogiation in that dept.

Stupid WS.

BTW, time to get your support team together for a meeting. BIL & MIL? Make a plan. Teach them to plan A, then plan B. Show them how to recognize reverse babble and learn to plan A your H vs plan B to the WS.

take care,
L.

Hey Neak - your quote really applies today!

I have packed up a bag for the kids and me and we are going to stay with a friend tonight.

I can't be here alone. I just can't.

I will check internet from up there and hope and pray that people have posted words of wisdom of what I do from here/now.

Thanks
Justine

IMO you are not done with Plan A, but should start preparing for a formal Plan B so when the time comes you are ready.

Him moving out does not automatically mean it's time for Plan B. Being time for Plan B makes it time for Plan B. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Moving out just means it's easier yet harder to continue Plan A: easier because you get a rest some of the time, and harder because you have fewer opportunities to show them what they're missing, and have to make the most of them.

Have you read some Plan B letters? Why don't you work on yours and then post it here. You'll need it soon, after all.

Taking care of yourself and the kids is the most important right now. Visiting relatives is a great idea.

BTW, I have heard most of the things your WH is now telling you, and so has almost every BS here. It's right out of the script, so be reassured that he is "normally abnormal", lol. Don't take it personally; just remember it.....someday he will be very embarrassed by what he is saying now.

Hi Neak,

I was surprised to see you post that you don't think it's time for plan B.

I mean - I would love to still be in Plan A - but honestly dont know how i can do it when he has put things so specifically in his texts.

MInd you - i still haven't replied was thinking of the RB that Orchid was talking about.

Wanted to put 'U ask if Im ok? What do you think? U say that you want me to have a 'ME' day, If it was my Mark there you would know what a 'Me' day is, it is a day with my family. You say you'll be here before teh kids wake on Sunday morning, we may not be.'

But is this too sarcastic? I know RB shouldn't be sarcastic.

There is so much in his sms's that I wanna ask him? He says he can't be near me atm. That when he is he wants to distance himself - like WTF. I am glad Neak to read taht he is 'normally abnormal'lol! Hard not to take it personally tho! lol!

So - should I be answering his msgs at all? If it's still plan A, should I respond to this 'im moving out msg and then the U ok'msg?

Or do I let him sweat it tonight - with her.

Someone said yesterday, about 'do I realise I am the hot topic of their A' and funnily enough when I fwded his msg to my sister she said 'that isn't Mark's writing - that is her, that has all been planned before.' And it's right. That first message is not how Mark would write a message. The 2nd one is tho.

So yes - I am the hot topic.

What to do???

jus

Juzzie, I really don't know what to advise. I'm pretty sure that nothing at the moment can tear him away from the clutches of his lover. He is in deep and will be totally irrational. He is riddled with guilt - that's apparent. All that crap about you having a 'me day' is just so he can feel he's doing a little something for you to ease his conscience.

Neak is right. I've heard it all before as most of the BS's here have. It's almost laughable how they all follow the same script, but I know it's not funny when you're on the receiving end of it.

Just know that he will regret this so much one day. Guilt will consume him. Prepare yourself to expect nothing good from him for a while. He has a huge financial obligation to you - if you are at all worried that he might go off the rails in this respect, you really ought to see a lawyer. OW doesn't realise yet that the future isn't all that rosy when you hitch up with a married man with 3 kids.

I guarantee he will be back. I am 99.999999% sure. Don't know when, but wait for the cracks to appear in his fantasy world. He will miss you, the kids, his home and the extended family. At the moment, he has easy access to both worlds. Not for long. (((Juzzie)))

Orchid: Maybe a tad sarcastic. Ok, howz about something a bit more simple and direct. Remember WS' have short attention spans. LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

RB comeback: A Me day? Like your Me year? Sorry bud but a good day for me w/b to spend it with my family. I am not from the 'me generation'.


Orchid: OWs like to 'pretend they are the WS and freak out the BS'. If the one you are dealing with is psycho like that..... go have a field day with it and RB all you want. Forget the sarcasism. Mess with her mind and put all the guilt back on 'them'. When the then Xws asked me if I had hired a PI to spy on her (remember it's always all about the drama queen), I told .....wow, what an idea....thanks. LOL!!! Idiots. I had already checked her out. LOL!!!


Orchid: U decide. Remember, plan A is about you making improvements for yourself.


Orchid: Let him sweat.... he needs a bath anyways. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. Reverse babble as needed, then sit back, wait and watch.

L.

I found out a freaky thing today.
Apparently to apply for temporary residency visa you need to prove a 6 month defacto relationship.

I truly do believe she is trying to do this.

March - September (when her visa runs out) = 6 months.

He is so being used - stupid idiot.

TT - thanks for your post. My sister in Germany sent him the biggest text message. She is my baby sister and has always had Mark, never remembers a time without him.

She sent him "U had beta not dare 2 comee within an inch ofme & Daniel 4 a very long time. I dont know whats haappened to you or what she has done to u. Im not sure I care anymore. Ur not the person I grew up with knowing as my brother and now by doing this your robbing your own chn of what I loved about u most. U did as much for me as Justien eva did. I looked up to u both. I hope u know she's using you. Yes Shes a lonely ****** who just wants to stayin Australia & ur her ticket. Or worse still, if all that crap about not being able to have kids is true, wants to steal tehm from their mother instead. Dont u dare leaveJustine to tel lthe kids. Its your problem, as u keep saying, handle it Tell them u dont want to live as a family and U tell them that you wont be going on the trip (we're all supposed to be going to Germany in June). DOnt answer this. I dont care what youhave to say anymore. U have alot to do before you redeem yourelf in my eyes Mark... alot'

I am so proud of her!!!

I read it out to my mum on the phone and she sobbed and sobbed. She said she has a letter drafted too - that she is sending to him at work.

Now I am thinking that MIL should ring the Parra office and ask to speak to Root and abuse her.

Anyway - dinner is ready and the wine has arrived! Gonna have a spa after dinner too.

Then tomorrow - back to reality <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

juz

ps - i dont think he would be smart enough to look up this site, not his scene. but Im wondering if its her scene? I have told him about it (cause of truehearts letter etc) Maybe I should change my username? And if I do that - does it change it for all past posts?

Ok Orchid,

Thanks mate.

So perhaps if I reply with something like 'Me ok? Do you think I'd be ok? About Sunday, A Me day? Like your Me year? Sorry bud but a good day for me w/b to spend it with my family. I am not from the 'me generation'

We have alot to do around the house and alot to discuss. You wanna come over to spend the day with the kids and tell them what is going on, fine. I will stay out of your way while you do all that. But I dont want to go anywhere.

Don't ask a WS to think (I'd take out that sentence)...RE: they can't. U ok with this type of reply? Just checking. It is short and powerpacked but some may think it is full of LBs and sarcasim. However, if the WS were treating my family as he is yours....I'd opt for straight talk....LB or not.

JMHO,
L.

Neak - I was just over reading your epic novel. WOW. I am only half way through, although things are starting to look up, you just arrived home to him watching tv with the kids.

ANyway- as I was reading my phone buzzed. It was WH saying 'H (best mate who incidently had msged me today to ask how I was and I told him the latest installment) just msged me, wants me to go over 4 a chat. I asked could I bring kids ova 2 play with N.U ok with that?''

I've yet to answer him, and won't tonight. I firstly msged H and checked that he had sent the msg (bcs 3 wks ago he used H as an excuse b4 I knew about the A and he really went to OW house.) Yes H said, it is true and it is supposidly Sunday.

Soooo, Im not gonna write back tonight, I haven't all day today. I just read in Neak's post about how her WH wondered what she was doing and I know my idiot will be doing the same thing, seeings as he knows how attached I am to my ph.

So now tomorrow, when I DO write back to him and I say all/some of the RB from above post. How do I RB the fact that they are HIS chn adn he doesn't have to ask MY permission to take them to Hs place? (as long as its not to HER place)

I love that he won't be home - he will be at H's. That means he wont be packing a bag here! But then that leaves me here (although I think I HAVE found something to do that day, morning at least)

Anyway- Orchid any tips? lol!

And Neak - Im going back to your story now!

jus

Neak - yikes - I just read your mums post about AJ being 'Mrs Neak'and that is what my WH is! I am very successful in my dancing school and I know that part of the 'depression'that he talked about 'before I knew of the A'was that he hadn't succeeded in anything, that he was usless and had to make something of himself.

The OW is very ordinary. Has no special charms (cept of course her chocolate covered naked body pix). So perhaps that's part of the fog??

He always said how proud he is of me and what I've succeeded in doing, but he does actually get called Mr B (my maiden name) sometimes because I still go by that for my dancing career.

Hmmmm - the mind boggles.....

Sunday seems VERY suspicious to me...he wants the children BAD that day and is finding more and more ways to get them away from you...on THAT day.

My thought? There is something going on in legitimaizing A world on Sunday...the children will probably be meeting the OW, and possibly visiting families...he's mentioned having the kids without you on Sunday at LEAST 3 times.

I would be VERY careful...possibly make plans, or offer (command) that you will take the kids over to H's and pick them up from there later. Perhaps talk with H about how it would be a good time for WH to talk with the kids that day, in front of you and H and then spend some time talking with them, then take them home...

There is something VERY sneaky about this...

I would talk to him on the phone.

He seems comfortable with sms's...I would call...if you find he is calling too much, I would sms...switch it around.

BTW, in the U.S. we would probably call the OW "Rut'.

Juzzie...
slow down
and
break this thing down..

IF you go to plan B as a knee jerk reaction to his silly statement...it will undermine the seriousness of it...
and it will sabotage and fail...

your plan B in response to his saying he can't do this will be seen as..

well ofcourse poor juzzie is just upset right now..
she just needs some time
she'll calm down in a few days and come..

plan B is called plan B because it follows plan A..

the better plan A the greater the release and impact of plan B....

slow down...

ARK

Just saying hi. I got the lovely bug going around, so my brain is less use at the moment than a marshmallow. But even if I can't come up with any coherent thoughts of my own I can recognize good advice when I see it. Read and reread the above wise posts.

You are at the beginning of this process, and it takes time. Relax and be patient. Plan B will come soon, but you have some work to do first. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


This is the essence of it all, and Orchid has given you a few ways to get started. Day by day, you will get through this.

SMIH. I agree about the sussness of Sunday. Thankfully there is no family for them to meet - just OW. But I am going to re-iterate about not meeting her.

Ark - I have just tried to call him - twice. I haven't responded to any of yesterday's messages yet. I have been feeling too sick. Still feel sick even after half a tab of valium. My anxiety level is worse today than yesterday, I think the shock is finally settling in.

The last time i felt like this was 8 years ago when my son was stillborn. But i had Mark with me for that.

I can think of 2 reasons (no, 3) why he is not answering his phone. 1) he is still asleep (11.34am - could be) 2) I am ringing from a friends ph cause we stayed the night so he may not recognise the number or he MAY recognise it and not want to hear from them and 3) She is there and he won't answer it.

I didnt want to ring from my mobile phone because the bill is going to be high enough this month as it is.

I too am sick of the sms's I want to speak to him.

I dont want to go to plan b I just couldn't cope with the messages from yesterday and couldn't respond.

Jus

Well, I am home. It's now 3pm and he never returned my call <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I am better than I was this morning. It's just mornings I really can't cope with.

So now, I think I won't try and call him again. I really DONT want to message him. I really want to TALK to him, even if it's strained.

He says he will be here early in the morning......?

He rang at 3pm. We spoke for 6.47min. Very sad, i could think of nothing to talk to him about <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

He said 'hi' (in sad voice) I said 'oh hi' and he asked how I was and I said 'not good, but getting there'.

He wanted to check that all was ok for tomorrow with coming here early etc and how were the kids and DD18mths was making noises behind and he said 'oh, yes D, say your piece.'

He perked up as the convo went on, I just wish I had more to keep talking to him about.

I said 'weve got alot to talk about, do we do it in the morning before the kids get up or in the afternoon'.

He said (babble) 'play it by ear'

So I said 'we'll play it by ear?'

I asked him if he got my call this morning and he said he noticed a missed call, he didnt get up until 3pm. I said 'did you go out last night?' 'yes, to Retro' (which is a 70's nightclub - a place we went, when we went out -whcih wasn't often since the wee one was born)

I said to him 'Im so worried about the money Mark and I know that is one of the reasons you feel you have to distance yourself from me, because Im always talking about money, but we HAVE to talk about it. How are we going to afford this'.

He said 'we'll talk about it tomorrow'

I said 'are we still going to go to the MC on the 1st?'

He said 'yes'

I said 'so all hope isn't lost'

and he said 'no'

I told him about an invitation the kids had gotten for thier sports awards for next Sunday at 10am and would we take them and he said 'oh yes, that sounds good.' I thought that would be a good day of ENs without it being 'at home'

He said that he is going to take the kids to the park (and I will ensure that OW isn't going to be there) and then come back and talk to them.

A friend I was speaking to tonight is a single mother who raised 3 girls alone and is in the army. She said to ensure that he is as involved with the kids as possible. That if he choses to 'move out' then he still has to show his responsibilities by picking the kids up on the days he always did.

She said that when she was away for work etc and might ahve been away for a few weeks or a few months, when she came back SHE got overwhelemed with her chns noises and the 'kid clutter' and things like that, and she's the mother.


Oh - and she said for him NOT to tell the kids too much as there is that glimmer of hope (in that he is willing to still go to MC) so not to make it so definate on the kids? What do you think?

So he needs to still be around this as much as pos so that he doesn't forget that this is what family life is about, whilst he is out living the single life.

So anyway - I was thinking of writing out for him a list of what his responsibilities should be, even though he is chosing to live away from home

For instance - Mondays - come home and feed kids and put them to bed (as I teach dancing Mondays, and this is always what he did).

Either stay here Monday night on lounge or go back to 'there' but be back here Tuesday morning to take DS4 to Preschool (as my work is in the opp direction on Tuesdays)

Tuesday nights - pick up DD7 from dancing and bring her home.

Thursday nights - pick up DD7 from dancing and bring her home.

Saturday - be here to take DS4 to dancing and bring him home.

Ensure that he spends time here to look after the yards/pool etc, as was always what he did.

Plus family outings such as 'presentation days' and 'trips to the park'

These are just the 'responsibility' section.

Nothing to do with the boundaries of 'under NO circumstances are the children to meet ROOT. She is not a part of their lives even though she may be a part of yours.'

What else should I say? Are these things above ok to say? How should I word them?


Ark - do you think this is taking more 'ME' control of the situation?

I was so NICE to talk to him on the phone today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> even if it wasn't a great convo. I did try to be upbeatish - but pretty hard to do so.

juz

The message that my sister sent to WH yesterday - well my ****** of a WH fwd'd it to me tonight. He said 'Im gonna fwd u a msg kc sent me. I deserve it so I don't blame her'

I MEAN WTF!!!

Of course you deserve it - and y the 'blip' send it to me FOR GODS SAKE!!!!!

God he is an idiot!

RB to the text he sent you re: your sister's message:

WH, why do you think you "deserve it"? After all, you are happy and this is what you want?

Regards,

BB

LOL BB - Wish I'd had that 3 hours ago! That would have been perfect! A bit too late to send it now though - will have lost it's impact.

MInd you, if he brings is up tomorrow I will make sure I say it.

How are you doing today?

Im just composing a written letter for him outlining his responsibilities etc. I decided to write it not type it - it's amazing how much LONGER it takes! LOL

To used to the keyboard these days!

jus

Juzzie, good luck tomorrow. There is a brilliant piece of writing by a guy called Frank? Pittman about romantic love affairs. If only your WH could realise he is in a temporary state of infatuation. She is not worth giving up everything he loves and values, and whilst he continues to pursue his 'dark side' he is doing so much damage to you and your marriage. I'm glad he is agreeing to MC; perhaps that will knock some sense into him. Keep us posted. TT

Thanks TT,

Yeah - if only hey!

I have just finished composing a 5 page letter to him. Much of which I had written in my first letter (above somewhere) that I never gave him, and other stuff which I have snatched from this site.

As well as adding into it about his responsibilities and my boundaries.

I am also going to say when I give it to him could he endeavour to keep it in a safe place where ROOT won't find it, as I feel she could be doing snoopy snoop big time into his things (just like me! lol)

I tried to ring him 3 hours ago (cause I dont wanna use sms anymore) to ask him to get some bread and milk on the way home. He didnt answer - surprise surprise surprise. I did consider ringing the home number (which I have) but Im not QUITE that brazen yet! LOL!

So ended up just sending him a text that said 'tried to ring you, plesae pick up some B & M on the way home tomorrow'.

And Im gonna keep calling it HOME HOME HOME all the time.

He called it 'home' today too - gotta keep that up.

I will go google Frank Pittman, but not tonight. Think I'd better go to bed. Gotta ****** of a day in front of me tomorrow and it's almost half 12.

Hope you're doing well & thanks for the support.

Hugs
Justine

This is just a thought, but maybe you could put some of the responsibility for coming up with a solution on him? Like, make a short list:
1. Monday night I work at dance class
2. Tuesday morning I can't take DS4 to preschool
etc.

Tell him the problem, and ask him to come up with a solution.

good suggestions by NEAK. Also the RB lines c/b used later and still be effective.

I demanded the WS show us he was happy. That really screwed up his face and mind. Literally.

I was sly.... I told him his family wasn't happy (remember he kept saying we w/b better off w/o him....so he could have his A). I agreed and then reminded him that we deserve t/b happy but couldn't be as long has he was having his A. Typical Bs verbage. Then I added the twist.....got him to acknowledge he was brining pain and suffering to his family (even though he didnt' mean to - yea....that didnt' count). So once those words were out of his mouth...... I let waited a while, then reminded him of those words.....out of the blue....we were actually having a non R convo and it was a fairly decent conversation. LOL!!! Went something like:

Ws...blah..blah...blah..

BS: Oh yea......

BS: Btw, WS there's something I need you t/d.

WS: What is it? (nicely said, remember he was just talking about 'blah'.. ....).

BS: Well I've been thinking (deadly words to a WS).... you can see your family still hurts from this separation, right?

WS: (defensive mode coming up)....yes.

BS: Uh....ok. Needed to make sure. (not just wanted....)..... well..... I was wondering, with all our misery.....someone needs to be happy. I mean we (son & I) are misreable..... so YOU need t/b happy w/all this chaos and misery. Not the OW. I don't care about her and she isn't part of this family.... so I guess that w/b you. So from now on when you come over.....you need to be happy, jovial and full of laughter....even when you see us crying. oK. I mean you need to show us how happy u r with her. We NEEEED to SEEE it (got a bit dramatic there). LOL!!!

You should have seen his face twist up. He admitted he wasn't that happy and the more he tried to defend his sadness, the more I pushed his need t/b happy.

It was a classic momment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

L.

Juzzie,

You have got to force yourself to be unavailable. When he calls, let the kids answer if you can. I know it is hard. It was so hard for me to do that. I wanted to call him about a million times a day. My hardest time was at night. I work full time and would be so busy at work that I wouldn't have time to think about it. But then I would go home and be so alone. My son (18) works a lot at night and I would just open a can of soup for dinner and sit and wonder what he was doing. Then hop into our big bed all alone. It was miserable.

But I didn't call. He wondered what I was doing as well. And I am sure he discussed this constantly with the OW. And don't you know she hated that.

I would encourage the kids to call him at night or even if he calls them that would work. This will show OW that he is still connected to them. She wants to be the only one in his life (as shown in the chocalate incident - Yuck!) She will not want to share him with the kids and when she is all he has - he will be miserable.

Fight the impulse to stay in touch and let him see that you are prepared to build a life on your own.

Hang in there!

Nkay

wow - what a day. cant talk - he's still here! OMG! It's 1am!
I know he 'does' want to leave, but he doesn't.

Hmmm. He talked to the kids tonight about how he is staying with a 'friend' atm but will still be here too take them to school etc.

he didnt tell them about our cancelled trip o/s...yet.

He is coming back tomorrow (if he leaves tonight, i have to go to bed soon) to take DS4 for a haircut and so I can go to the movies with my friends.

Oh - I HOPE HOPE HOPE I am doing the good wifey things, the good ENs.

I haven't tried to 'invade' his space - as much as Ive wanted to! lol!

I did talk to him this morn about his responsibilities and my boundaries - re ROOT - and he agreeed.

Ive not given him my letter yet..

Must run, dont wanna get caught on here.

Jus
PS - will update in morn

Hey Juzzi,

Slow down. Ask yourself, why would you ever want to meet the EN of a WS? EN of your H is fine but NOT the WS. Ok?

Don't work sooo hard. Just be yourself and go figure out your boundaries. U R making this harder than it has to and it will take it's toll on you soon. So slow down. When he comes don't fret. Be more casual and a bit nonchalant, especially if he is being a WS jerk. Btw, temporary period of being a dad, don't count.....he gets no extra credit for that....it's his job. Don't show unecessary praise, just short simple thanks when he is being good. Don't have to pat him on the head or give him a bone biscut. LOL!!! But if he begs...tell him to 'play dead'. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Hi Orchid,

Many times yesterday it was H, not WS. It was weird. We took the kids to the park in the afternoon and it was just like old times (cept he still wasn't touching me - and I didnt try to touch him).

At the end of the night he put his arms around me and gave me a kiss.

HURTS SOOO MUCH.

I gave him my letter and told him that I wanted to talk about it today.

Oh - found out why he wasn't in such a hurry to get back there. She was out visiting friends last night - surprise surprise. I really did think that deep down as he was in no hurry to get back to her.

A friend of mine said this morning that now that he is 'living' with her it isn't an affair any more - it's a relationship.

That really SHOOK ME UP. Is that true do u think?

I did say early on 'are you staying with her' (knowing full well the answer would be yes) and he said 'atm, yes'

What I tried to do yesterday is the same kind of calm, nonchalant juz that I was on Easter Show day, when he wrote and said 'it was a step in the right direction for us'. So I thought, as everyone has said here, I can't BREAK the affair but if I show a nice calm controlled home and me, that would be what he remembered.

I know I have to slow down - it's so hard to.

Still can't eat either -and he said 'Im so worried about you not eating'

I said 'well, come home and be my loving husband and I'll start eating!'

Hmm - no answer to that one!

Yes, Juz, even if they are living together, it is still in A, so long as the two of you are still married. An affair is when you are married to one person and having an emotional/physical involvement with someone other than your spouse. Tell the friend who told you that to go pound salt. With friends like that, well...

Regards,

BB

Why yes, it's a relationship. A black, malignant, infected, oozing, pus-encrusted cancer of a relationship. Do you have any true friends who will stand with you on this? Besides all of us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Enjoy the respites where your H briefly reappears. This "relationship" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> will have to run its toxic course, and at times he may be unrecognizable as your H. Doing the good things you are doing and helping remind him of his duties as a father can help the course to go a little faster. (Not that it will seem that way.)

Relationship, bah!!!!!

Thanks BB and Neak. And this friend IS a good friend, I think she is just trying to 'prepare' me for the worst - but it really didnt DIDNT help!

He arrived here at 2pm and the kids were down at mum and dads so I got to talk to him. I said 'have u read my letter' he said 'not yet' I said 'geez, glad it meant so much to you' he said 'sorry, i just fell into bed when I got home (HOME! GRR) and then when I got up had a shower and came here, I will read it tonight'

Anyway, I couldn't help myself from giving him a hug and I had been lying down (bad night, still in PJs) and he said 'aren't you well' (had his arms around me) and I said 'no, not really' he said 'in the tummy' I said 'no, in the head! he said 'welcome to my world'

I said again to him what ive said before, how I just find it hard to take because there was no warning whatsoeva. And he said 'i know' (his famous answer)

I said 'Can us see a future for us' and he said 'sometimes yes and sometimes no'

I said 'Are you attracted to me at all' and he said 'sometimes yes and sometimes no'

Then he starts rubbing my back and sides but up under my PJ top and IM thinking PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!! But bloody KIDS arrived back [censored] [censored] [censored]

So before I answered the door we kissed, a big kiss and then I went and opened the door and let the ferrals in, and now he has taken DS4 for a haircut and I dont know WHAT to bloody think.

*sigh*

I felt really strong last night, and I think it was because he was here, because today I have felt bloody awful again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Ive gotta make myself get through this SOMEHOW.

The WS & OP would like it t/b an R but he is still married, so at best it is an A. You know the fog can't spell A, so they spell it R-o-l-l-a-i-d-s. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Yea, and it smells 2. The stench goes from the mothership.... like passing the garbage truck on a hot and humid day. LOL!!!

As to your remark about your H coming back and then you can eat..... well I said similar way back when.

L.

Juzzie - why don't you go on the trip to Germany with the kids regardless of this A. Just because he'd changed course, I don't see why you should all have to sacrifice the holiday. Just my thought for today. TT

Juzzie..

did you give him the letter yet...if you haven't it is my opinion DO NOT DO IT

it might be a lovely list of rules that if he meets it makes his affair OK...
Juzzie says if I do x y z then this other 'stuff' is OK..
as long as I do these things...

don't make it easier
don't protect HIM from the kids....

Get your house in order,..we all know with young kids how hard it is...and how even harder when in emotional distress and doing it by yourself......

focus on those type of actions that keep you busy busy busy...

do things that help organize and decrease the chaos it will make you feel much more calm...

think about enlisting the help of good friends and rearranging some things in the home....
changes that he will notice and you would have usually gone to him for his opinion...cut him out of some of the loops...

when he is coming over...have the home be a haven..
have it be tidy and neat...

when he is coming over fill the house with things that smell good...throw something in the oven that smells great...

the sense of smell is an extremely powerful memory...

make his favorite brownies cookies..and have then out BUT don't offer them...unless he asks....

If you know the time he is coming over engage the kids in some awesome activity..

bubble blowing
dancing in the kitchen..
charades...

let him walk in to a home full of laughter and life with him where he chooses on the fringe.....

give him both full and side views of what he is sacrificing...without words but actions...

NO
NO
NO big relationship talks...he wants to drag in to philosophical flotsam about his need to

FIND himself
his NEED to be HAPPY..
blah blah blah blah....

be sexy....
smell great
flirt a little with no real overt advances,,.
throw lingere over the shower curtain when he's coming over...

be done with him before he is ready to leave...
heck dear sorry to scoot you out but I got get the kids ready ...

fill the house on the weekends with family and friends..
have cook outs and people over...
good friends of him and yours....gather them to you and leave him on the peripheral...always welcome ...but not quite IN anymore...

If you can't be upbeat on the phone
don't call or talk to him..
tell him..ohhh too busy right now gotta go...call me later though....

get a male friend of the family to take over a chore of your husbands...

hubby.
don't worry about mowing the lawn this week....jeff said he'd do it....batt your eyelashes and change the subject....

juzzie you have lots of things you can be doing filling your time...

QUIT asking if HE'S attracted to you...just be ATTRACTIVE to him.....and get his attention...

no more asking him anything like that...!!!!!!!!!

he is sooooooooooooooooooo unattractive right now via his actions...that you should get a medal for not hurling when you see him.....

if nothing else juzzie..
no more relationship talk..it's all foolish babble...

ARK

Thanks Ark!

That is a great post! I HAVE given him the letter unfortunately.

I mean, i was glad to give it to him, but I can see where you are coming from - especially because of how this long weekend has been.

It has been good.

We did laugh and I did flirt a little, but nothing more than that.

The kids were wonderful

And STUPID STUPID STUPID me thought that meant that things were cracking over there.

Cept....

I found his phone unattended today when he was playing soccer.

All the time he was msging her about how much he missed her

oh and last night I went out with friends for coffee. We weren't meeting until 8pm and his words to me were 'dont hurry home, it doesn't matter what time you get back'.

So I didnt'

The shop closed at 11pm, we got kicked out and then it was a half hour drive home, plus I had to stop for gas.

Anyway - I rock on in around midnightish and he leaves about 12.50. But it was a 'good' leave. I was in an upbeat happy mood after being with my friends and I even sent him a stupid MMS photo which he wrote back and it was all good

Cept today on the phone I see a message at 10pm that he sent to her that said 'I think she thinks if she stays out really late I wont come back to you - it aint happening'

I just feel soooo betrayed (stupid i know - more betrayed over the other ****** but he SAID stay out as long as I like)
and it just hurts that he was badmouthing me to her when I wasn't doing anything wrong.

Anyway, i was pretty quiet at soccer, cause I had discovered these msgs at the start of the game.

He came and put the kids in my car and said goodbye to them and then came around and gave me a kiss and said 'I'll speak to you soon, ok.'

And I said 'ok'

and we left.

TheN I get a text 10mins later that says 'I know you disapointed i dint come home. Just hope the last couple of days shows I am trying? Mark'

Its like WTF. You are trying when U want to try and then she calls and off you go running.

GRRRR. Yes - another little bit of my heart froze today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Jus

PS TT - Can't afford to go to Germany. Would really love to still take the kids. Was soul destroying telling my 7 year old - she screamed in anguish <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Juzzi,

U ready to yank his chain? How?

Send him when he thinks he needs to stay and get him to stay when he wants to leave. Yea.....that is one way to mess with a WS. Change the time on their watches is another trick. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

What wil that do? It will make them off balance and you how much fun an off balance person in an A c/b to the OP?!?!?! LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Oh....it could ruin their evening, weekend, life.... Awwhhhh... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

L.

YOu know, this is what Im having more trouble dealing with. That he KNOWS I KNOW and yet he keeps going back there.

That is my biggest gripe from today. That he spent the day with us, and had fun, i could tell, and yet HE WENT BACK THERE.

And he msged her -from here (although I didnt realise it when we were home) to say 'Im leaving for soccer in 40mins'

Oh and my DD18mnths said (because she's seen daddy today, yesterday and Sunday) 'dadda dadda dadda' and went into every room of the house before bedtime <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

That sounds like a cute little anecdote to message him. "It was so cute...she just kept saying dadda dadda and looking all over for you. Daddy's girl for sure <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />"

Your WH truly is not in his right mind at this point. Don't take his garbage personally. I know it's hard not to. If you just assume the worst possible EVERYTHING about him, you're probably right, and at least you won't be disappointed. You may even be pleasantly surprised once in a while.

{{{{Juzzie}}}}}} because you need a hug before I tell you that it will take more than this before his fantasy busts. A good day with you does not mean that things are breaking apart with them, at best it shows that there are some cracks in la la land. So please do not pin your hopes on a single good event, or have them crushed by a single bad event. It takes time, but nearly all of them regain their sanity eventually.

Keep your eyes on the goal.

OHHHH MY GOD!

Guess what just happened.

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

I just got a text from Mark, I was just going to bed (midnight) and I heard my phone beep.

It says 'If u wanna have any chance with me then u gotta stop all texts and calls to Ruth! We'll talk about it but please leave her alone? That's not right!

OMFG

I HAVE RUNG HER ONCE - that was when I didnt know it was an affair and it was the day he went there to 'sleep on the couch' HE gave me her number.

I have texted her about 4 times. The first week I did 3 times when he was staying there (didnt know about affair) to see if he was ok.

Then once, on my DD7 birthday when she wrote to me and said 'I just wanna know if Mark's ok, he was gonna be back here and he's not and I was worried about him.' I wasn't going to msg her back but I did and I just said 'he's just left'

That was the 1st April.

I have NEVER written to her since. I have given her number to NO-ONE.

OMG OMG Omg!

I just tried to ring him - no answer. I sent him 4 text msgs telling him i NEVER did such a thing and he KNOWS me and knows I wouldnt waste the money doing that. And to PLEASE ring me, anytime tonight about it. And to ask to see her phone because it isn't me writing to her.

HOLY [censored]

I was actually tired and now Im wide wide WIDE awake.

GOd I hope he rings me.

God I hope she has been caught out in a BIG FAT HUGE LIE.

FARRRRRRKKKKKKKK

I just got THIS ONE....


"I'll go 4 a walk in a while, ok? I believe u when u say u didnt, but please dont in the future, ok. Long story but will explain another time!"

Well I wrote back and said ' ring me on HOME OR MOBILE, IM not sleepy now!! U have totally freaked me out Mark. You would u accuse me of that? And to put it like that to me 2, like an ultimatum. I dont know what tales she's spun but I hope u know me better than U KNOW HER.'

OMG OMG OMG

ARE THESE CRACKS OR IS MY WH AS DERRANGED AS THE ROOT!!!

HE still hasn't rung - damn it! here I am wide awake at 1.45am waiting for call to find out what the h+ll this is all about!!! GRRRRRRR

Juzzie, They are both totally wayward. So don't get freaked out by it. That is normal behaviour.

They are cheats. They are liars. Adultery really is not just about the sex. It brings out the very worst traits in a person.

And I would keep your text messages back to him really brief. To his last one, I would just have typed back 'ok'. I think you might seem too needy. Might give yourself some peace if you block his number for a while. He won't have anything positive to say anyway. He's feeling very important right now. Two women WANT him. What a dilemma. The testosterone is pumping and he is HOT. He's playing you against each other because it suits him. He wants a finger in both pies.

One of these days, and it may yet be a while off, he will cool down, wake up to his actions and realise what a complete and utter twat he has been. He has so much to lose but he just can't see it at the moment. So Juzzie, I'd just leave him alone. Ark's post was brilliant - go back and read it again, and then in the morning, and even every hour, just to focus and keep yourself on track. Take care Juzzie. TT

Maybe write Ark's post on a 3x5 card and keep it in your pocket all day and all night.

You remind me so much of myself a year ago. Trying so hard, and a wreck when, in spite of everything I did, he kept going back to her. Happy when he was happy. Sad when he was cruel.

You will find this much easier to get through if you find some emotional distance from the filth. This is where the alien idea really helped me out, once I heard about it. (Lemonman thinks some of the people here believe the WS's really turn into aliens. Maybe he is right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> So just for the record, they don't really turn into aliens; it just seems that way.)

But once I heard that they all act like they have been taken over by body-snatching aliens, it made it easier for me not to take everything so personally. When he would attack me and try to blame me for everything bad on the planet, instead of letting it get to me like before, I would just (mentally only!!!) roll my eyes and think "Alien, blah blah blah." It added enough humor to make the situation almost bearable. My calm was maddening to him.

He admitted shortly after it ended that some of the bad behavior had been on purpose to try and drive me away, and upset me to the point where I would end it with him, and then he wouldn't have to be the one to decide.

What he (and she) did last night was bad, but does not change the outcome of this one whit. You may feel at his mercy now, but before this is over you will be the one deciding whether or not you want to stay married to him.

Stay strong.

Well I gott his at 7am this morning (after being up all night)

Sorry I fell asleep. Had had a few beers. Didnt mean to be accusivelast night. Just wanted to keep u 2 apart. Just me being me. Didnt mean 2 freak u out!

Alien being alien hey!

So i got a msg half an hour ago to say he's gonna ring me soon, just on work call.

I am so cranky about this (and my lack of sleep - i had things to do today and all ive done is mope around hte house Im so damn tired)

To accuse me of something SO SPECIFIC. It is so specific. Its 'STOP ALL TEXTS AND CALLS TO ROOT...PLEASE LEAVE HER ALONE'

Im not the one touching the woman! LOL!

Then in the next 'i believe you when u say u didnt ut please dont in the future.'

What the.......???

"WH, what you are doing is hurting our family. Please leave that woman alone."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Any time you can turn his words around on him it is a good thing, IMO, as long as you do it nicely.

I sympathize with moping around the house, so as the pot calling the kettle black, don't do it! Get busy! Do something!

If your WH is like most, he will be back and forth like this, yo-yo style, and would go on looooooooong past your ability to tolerate it, IF he were allowed to. And that's why Plan B is such a crucial next step, when the time comes.

well he rang. and he says he was pissed and he doesn't even remember writing those messages (i said 'are u sure U did?).

I read out what he wrote to me and he apologised and said that he had had 4 Guinesses (and is on ADs and the pain patches) and it must have made him go psycho.

I said 'h*ll yeah!'

Then he said 'what are you and the kids doing tomorrow. Im at V and thought u might wanna come over?'

You will be proud of me, I said 'well actually, Im taking them out to Ctown for a work get together'

'oh' he said, cause Friday Im just at Q and I dont think they'd like it there.

I said 'are you at Parra now?, How about I bring them over and meet you'

'its a bit late isn't it?' he said

I said 'its only 1.45'

'well I could meet u at the shops' he said

I then said 'the kids wanna see daddys work'

'we can take em back afterwards'

"ok' i said.

So then I left it 5 mins and then rang back. He didnt answer. (prob speaking to her and telling her we're coming). Then he rang back and i said 'ive changed my mind' 'oh' (in disapointed voice) 'D has just gone down for a sleep and if i wake her she'll be ferral so it's just not worth coming.'

'oh, ok then, we'll try and sort something else out' says he.


Did I turn the tables or what!! I am proud of me!! lol!

And Neak I did tell him about D and her 'dadda dadda' last night. Said 'she is such a daddys little girl, running from room to room to find you' He said 'oh no, really'

So, i am feeling better -a lthough still confused about the whole texts from last night. Still feel there was more to it - but who knows...

Now that you've stood him up twice, I think you should go ahead and get together with him the next time, for an awesome, sparkling family fun time.

Keep sending the occasional cute little anecdote. I like the way you did 'daddy's girl': stabbing him in the heart but without seeming pathetic. Not quite every day, but maybe every other day, see if there's another cute story that will make him feel really bad.

And who knows about the texts? Coulda been him, coulda been her. And he may not even remember any of that by the time he comes to his senses. One of the hardest things for me has been not being able to get some of my questions answered, and to know that he will never be able to tell me. Not big important questions, but things like, "That one time you went to the Carson office and you said you were going alone, did you?" I wanted my i's dotted and my t's crossed, but he just doesn't recall that kind of detail. It is all a big awful blur to him now.

And, as this confusing set of responses from your WH indicates, it's pretty much all a big awful blur when you're in the middle of it, too.

WS's have very very short attention spans.

When exactly is your anniversary? On Peachy's thread you said it was 4/5, but surely even in Australia that is past. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hugs, cuz that will be really hard. I could hardly bear the thought of spending our anniversary last year apart, and indeed we had it down to the last possible second when he finally manned up. We'll all be here for you - it will be sad for you, but just hold to the hope of a better anni next year, with no extra chocolate-encrusted baggage hanging around.

There are no guarantees, but the odds are heavily in your favor.

ahh Neak - in Australia we put the date first and the month 2nd! LOL! 4th May is our anniversary.

And 'yes' this Sunday I do have a good day planned. Its the kids Annual Presentation Day for Little Athletics. So that shoudl be a fun day.

Plus Saturday we'll go watch soccer. If he doesn't show himself between now and then it will have been 4 days since they had seen him - after seeing him Sat, Sun, Mon, and Tues.

It was good to get the 'sad voice' a few times - instead of it being ME doing the sad voice! LOL

He actually just sent this to me 'I feel like a proper sh!te sending such a stupid text under the influence of guiness! Sorry Juz'

LOL Neak - i just re-read ur post about the extra chocolate encrusted baggage! ROFLMAO!!!

Oh - and I too like my 'i's dotted and 't's crossed. That is part of my problem. He knows it too. Knows that in every letter i give him there are 47 layers of meaning in it! LOL!

Thanks Neak. Uve made me feel better. I DO feel better now - mind u, it's afternoon, always feel better in the arvo's! LOL

How about for a reply, "I'm not surprised. See you at soccer."

That ought to leave him wondering on many levels.

But you could also wait a bit to respond in case Orchid shows up with something more clever. She's up later than I am, and you're in no hurry to text him back right away.

Nite,
Neak

Juzzie, I am in Australia too - on the Central Coast north of Sydney. Let me know if you need someone to horsewhip your WH. LOL.

Thanks Bigkahuna, love your name btw! LOL!

Im in Sydney.

Geez I would love to be able to change my tag line to have the F in front of it!

Hopefully one day in the not too distant future I can.

Hugs mate
J

LOL he has written again! Pure babble

"I'll try not to freak u out again any time soon!Am v tired 2day so maybe my poor sleep is starting to catch up on me? Hope u had a good day? Am about to battle traffic next 15mins or so! Hope kids behaved!"

I was in 'DOING STUFF' getting kids rooms in order so didnt hear phone (which yes, has been permanently attached to me - i know! Wrong)

So i haven't written back yet.

Am just getting kids ready and we're going to a friends for tea.

Hey Orchid - any great RB for this last text that I can send him in an hour or so?

Cheers
Jus

Orchid's RB comeback: Hey WS, did you ever think that the OW c/b banging up other guys and their wives c/b calling her...also? LOL!!

FYI: That is an old OW ploy....making up calls. The WS in my case got one of those frantic calls from his freaky OW (we call her PBR - Psycho Babble Rabbit). I had to roll my eyes and laugh....then tell him if I was going t/b accused, I might was well have some fun and call the B - twitch OW. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

HELLO Juzzie

I have read this thread with a strong sense of deja vu. I have been where you are now and from my observations it is a recurring pattern .The 38 yr old h the 34 yr old wife the youngest child under 3 and the OW in her mid twenties-------my story exactly.With the exception in my case WH managed to keep it secret for a very long time. If there was an Olympics in cake eating he would take the gold biscuit.

It is the secrecy that really hurts and so in some ways you are lucky to have it out in the open. At least you know what you are dealing with. I lived with the elephant in the lounge room and I feel really sorry for those people who can never extract a confession.

I would like to help if I could These are my thoughts

The drunken text message is too cogent. Its my bet that OW took his phone when he passed out and sent a msg in his name.This action is a classic bullying technique. She is trying to undermine your sanity. The timing was designed to keep you wide awake and worrying.

I am in Aus and I know that it is not easy to get a residents visa through a declaration of a de facto relationship. It might be worth while doing a bit of research into what she needs to do to stay.Maybe the immigration dept has a website.This backpacker has to go.

If you do this now you will be well prepared to sabotage any attempt to overstay her welcome at a later date.I cant see that shacking up with a married father of 3 is an acceptable excuse.He is still legally m to you.

It would probably eventually become a legal problem and its possible to get free legal advice . Citizens Advice Bureau would steer you in the right direction. A solicitor would look after yout interests and advise on your rights here.Your H need not know about this at this stage but it is good to be well prepared for any eventuality and hopefully you may never need to use the information.

Good Luck. He doesnt realise how lucky he is to have you and the children he has a lot to lose and I hope he wakes up to that before long

How about notifying the Immigration folks that she is not in a de jure (legal) or de facto relationship - she is shacking up with a married man in an effort to gain citizenship/permanent resident status (or whatever it is she is trying to get). Maybe they'll note it on her immigration records and you can undermine any future efforts she attempts....? Just a thought

BB

Thanks Myopia and BB,

I have thought of notifying Immigration. She goes back to England in May for 3 weeks. I would love it if she couldn't get back in when she arrived back in Oz! loL!

I too agree that the message is too coherent to be drunk babble. I don't understand why he is covering up for her though? He truly did not remember sending the message yet he won't contemplate that she might have gotten hold of his phone to do it.

This is the same man who tells me in all sincerity (b4 i knew it was an affair) that ROOT knew something of what I was going through because she was engaged for a year to a man who she then found out was married an had kids!! I mean! WTF! How can u be engaged to someone and NOT know that. And how can WH possibly BELIEVE it after what she is doing THIS time.

My only other worry was that he was on drugs <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I hate to think it, he was/is so anti drugs - but it is a very psycho comment and would explain it in that sense. And they are living at the X.

We haven't heard from him today (10.07) and Im going to wait to see if he makes the first call/text.

See, i can see a pattern emerging. He rang me yesterday arvo, i did the 'no can't come out with you tomorrow jazz, he wasn't happy'. He rang at 6pm, on his way 'home' to her. Spoke to me about nothing for 15mins. Asked again where I was going with kids today and with whom.

Then, messaged me until 8pm. There was a show on TV that I knew we would both love and I msged him that it was on and he wrote back 'i just walked in from getting groceries and saw it and was about to sms u'.

So all the messages he had written me for the past 40mins had been when he was grocery shopping - alone - not with her.

Then, all messages stopped and we've not heard from him since - cause he's been with her.

We slept up at my friends - only just got home. Just getting kids dressed and going out.

MY DS4 said this morning 'why isn't daddy coming home anymore?'

I said 'daddy's not living here anymore for a while'

It broke my heart to say it out loud.

I so wanted to text him at 7am and say 'i just woke up alone - it's not fair'

But i didn't.

Im trying NOT to look needy. Sometimes it doesn't work, but Im getting better at it.

Hugs
Jus

PS - Orchid - love your reverse babble about the texts - may need them in the future! lol

Neak -

"There are no guarantees, but the odds are heavily in your favor."

OH HOW I HOPE!!!

I did the line last night 'So we'll see you Saturday when you're here to take Boy to dancing'

and that threw him!! Ya proud of me!!

He said 'oh um, yes, unless something comes up before...'

It hurt so so much to say it though!

Juzzie, just wondered if you are formulating any kind of plan? Do you have a time frame in your head as to how long you will tolerate him being 'piggy in the middle'?

Also, when the kids go back to school, has he commited to the schedule you gave him about collecting them from their activities?

It's pathetic, isn't it, how he has to sneak out to the grocers to text his wife!! Doesn't want to upset his girlfriend.

What will you do when Root goes to England? Will you let him come home? I think contacting the immigration is a brilliant idea. Make their sordid affair as tricky as possible. You can always do it anonymously. TT

No TT, I dont have a plan yet, not really.

I have been thinking about England - about letting him eat as much cake as pos when that happens. But I know he'll stay at her place - mind you - he better not pay the bloody rent!

He has committed to the school commitments - thats the thing. As of next week he will see them (and I will see him) almost every 2nd day. This week it will be Tuesday then Saturday <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You know, it's not even a MONTH since D Day! NOT EVEN A MONTH! *sigh*

My WH's A went on for well over a year before I discovered it. His behaviour was so typical of a WS but he has big health problems so I thought it was all related to that and his medication! Hurts to be taken for a fool.

When we separated, it was actually a relief to get him out of the house. He had been so miserable to live with. I remember one Saturday he turned up unexpectedly. I was playing music full blast, dancing around the dining room, preparing gifts for the school tombola. I was surrounded by all the donations. I was busy and happy and I remember the look on his face. It was a kind of "How dare you be happy - don't you know the anguish I'm in" look. The song I was playing was by Texas called "Inner Smile". Really confused him that day!

Juzzie, just keep positive and busy. He thinks he is unique and his struggles are his own. In fact, he is Mr Average Joe WS in a very typical workplace A. Shame he doesn't realise it yet. At the moment, he still thinks he's found something special. Puke. TT

Woooohoooooo! I knew he wouldn't like it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I know it hurt to say it, but what is good for us in the long run is seldom easy. Good for you!!!

Personally, I would recommend going to Plan B on the shorter side of the recommendation, which would be 1 1/2 - 3 months. He's eating so much cake already, you don't have as much ground to plow as many in your sitch.

Love the immigration idea.

Ok - so pyschic, amazing people out there in MBland - explain this day to me.

I wonder if he 'has the sh!ts still' about me NOT going to V with the kids to meet him today.

or

If 'we've all been forgotten about'

or

If 'he's had a busy day at work.'

Didn't hear from him until 11.25 this morning (again I specifically didnt message him first) but this is that latest he has EVER messaged me.

He asked how we were doing and that it was quite breezy in V. And had his motorcycle jacket survived the washing machine.'

I didnt answer for an hour and then I wrote my own babble

'Im so pleased to inform you that your daughter has just discovered the joy of biting others'

He didnt respond for an hour and then wrote;

'The lil cow! Hope she hasn't hurt anyone! Bite her back!'

I left it for another hour and then wrote;

'Geez I love Borders books! Kids r starting to get ferral. They're all a bit 'out of sorts' today.'

That last message from me was at 2.30. It's now almost 5 and Ive not heard from him.

Where he was working today, V, is very close to the city - infact, it's only about 10mins from where he is 'staying'. So he is nice and close to 'home' today.

So today I did try to be strong - but still keep that lifeline there, just a thread. But nothing 'relationship' and pure babble on my part.

I was out with more friends today. The first time Ive seen then since it all happened, but thanks to a very good friend they all knew about it and were so wonderful. They took the kids off for me to the playgrounds and the shops so that I could talk. It was wonderful.

Re the immigration.

One of my cousins used to be the person who actually 'yayed or nayed' illegal immigrants. She has moved to another department, but is still in immigration. I dont get on with her too well though (bloody loudmouth) but my sister does. My sister is currently on hols in the UK and will be back on MOnday. Im going to get HER to call/email my cousin and 'see' if there is something that can be noted on Roots file.

jus
PS 4 weeks ago tonight was D-Day
PPS - 1 week today is our 10 year anniversary

You know TT - I think if OW wasn't so young and stupid and possessive (and desperate) it would have gone on alot longer before I knew - for the exact reasons you state.

My WH is not well either and cites his pain for alot of his 'depression', which I have no doubt is true, however there is OTHER reasons now! LOL

yeah I agree about the 'typical workplace A'. Sitting at the table today there were 10 of us women. HALF of them, actually, more than half of them divorced/separated or battled affairs.

Sad V V V sad.

WELL - he did his nightly 'will contact the family' call. Spoke for about 10mins. My DD7 didnt even really want to talk to him. DS4 asked him where he was and when he was coming home (good onya boy!). DD18months just kept saying 'dadda dadda dadda' into the phone.

She obviously wasnt there. Its so funny. Its almost like IVE turned into the illicet affair, he rings ME when she isn't around and texts me when she's not there.

Grrr
jus

Hmmmm - 8.30 tonight I got a funny phone call. A definate - wait to see who says 'hello' then hang up.

Now, it may have been a wrong number, it may have been someone seeing if WH was home, but after the other days 'funny text business' I have my suspicions.

So I sent a nice text to Wh saying 'hey, you didnt just try to ring me did u? Was just getting kids out of bath and only just got to phone, person hung up as I said hello'

It may NOT have been him. It may WELL have been ROOT. But I just thought I'd plant a seed.

And Im gonna keep a log too.

Sure we get lots of those stupid tele-marketing calls here, but this was different. This was a definate 'hang up AFTER you hear the hello.

Hope it was her playing games!!! lol!

Try very hard NOT to appear anxious to hear from him. If you don't allow him the opportunity to 'wonder what u r doing or thinking'...... it doesn't give him reason to try and come back.

Don't be an anxious open book. WS' don't read well.

L.

lol Orchid! Ive tried not to do it in front of him - just in front of you lot! LOL

OK. I found you. Will read this and bring myself up to date.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You'll cringe Mimi when u read the stupid needy things ive done! LOL

jus

juzzie

i read your post on my thread.

if you just found out about the affiar 4 weeks agao, you need to do a good plan A for awhile before you go to plan B.

Excellent work so far juz. What other EN's can you fulfill...what is important to him...conversation/connection?, Admiration, Affection...smooches on the sms? Sexy talk on the sms? I'd do it...

One thing you may want to think about, and something that is hard to do in a respectful way, is to negotiate the A away. You need to let him know you are NOT OK with the A...that he goes "home" to her...

Some examples in sms...

"I hate it when you call the place you are shacking up with R as "home", that is very hurtful to read.

I am sad that you choose to spend time with the homewrecker instead of time with your kids.

I don't understand how she can be jealous of time with your kids?

I would appreciate it if you didn't mention the homewrecker to me at all anymore, she is an enemy to our children and our family.

Please ask her not to call or sms me ever again, it is terribly disrespectful to push herself on my life.

I am NOT OK with you carrying on with this other woman. You are being unfaithful, and right now I want to try to recover our M, but I cannot promise how long I will want our M. Every day you go "home" to her, I lose more love for you."

Be honest, honest, honest in ALL your interactions with him. Try to take the emotion out of your voice. Be detached from the WH. Let him know you tolerate this situation only because you think things will turn out for the M, but you are NOT OK with it...

Let him know what recovery will be like...MC, spending more time together, changing your LB habits, fulfilling EN's, etc.

As you get closer to Plan B, or if he talks D, you can begin to inform him what THAT will look like. Limited, scheduled time with younglings, no more contact with YOUR family, no more or limited contact with you...only related to the kids...

Juzzie --
It seems like you have so much ammunition!
If MIL wants to call the homewrecker -- LET HER! I'd personally want to be in the room when she does it -- so you can overhear what she says to her, as well as being sure OW doesn't try to sweet talk her way into MIL's good graces. If you are there MIL will be tougher!

OMG, what a great offer! She gets told off, and you aren't the one doing it!

Also -- EXPOSE! It seems like you're doing that in dribs and drabs, but please make sure everyone who can influence the situation is aware. ESPECIALLY OW's FAMILY! Call her mother -- tell her that her daughter is ruining 3 young childrens home and you would appreciate her help in ending this affair.

I know you deleted the number from his phone, but could you find it on the bill?

Get your plan together!

Well I found out something interesting this morning. His work friend SMS'd me to let me know that Root has gotten a job in Ncstle (2 hour drive away) it's only casual and Friend doesn't know details of when it starts etc. So I'll be interested to know if he tells me about it? Hmmm

Also last night I msged him (nicely) and asked did he ring me and hang up cause I was just getting kids out of bath etc. He wrote back this morning and said 'just got your msg. Didnt ring u as far as I remember, was v v tired and fell asleep on lounge as soon as I got to PPoint.'

Now, I KNOW this is B/S because he msged me at 7.30 from there to let me know he was going to read my letter again tonight after Root went to bed cause he wasn't tired.

So - dunno what's going on - but will be using BIG BIG BIG ENS this weekend.

Still - I did a 'sexy' sms last weekend. It was funny and he laughed and it was nice, but then of course he turns back into alien again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I 'listen' to him as he complains on the 'rough' day he's had etc etc etc. He always asks in his msgeds 'u ok?' 'how r u 2day?'

I never answer that part.

Lexxy. I dont think he'll ring from our home ph - not to the UK. I will have to check out next mobile bill to see if he does on that - but dont htink he would do that either - will prob do from her place. But I will keep my eyes open.

MIL rang me last night - she is still distraught. Tries to ring him, he wont answer ph. Its mothers day in 2 weeks, I wonder if he will contact her? He was always the 'wonderful son' Hmmm..

So u think I SHOULD get MIL to ring her work - Hmmm - v v interesting.

Thanks guys, gotta go battle through Friday Playgroup now!

Jus

Still and I had the same line of thinking..

You listed the ENs early on but I haven't noticed you speaking about them...

What ENs do you think the OW meets?

Plan A requires you to show your capacity to also meet those needs.

Continue to meet the ENs that you already meet for him...AT A HIGH RATE....

When you go into PLAN B, you want him to miss the Juzzie you were during PLAN A....

OW will not be able to meet all of his needs....

Make as much of a point as possible about your HISTORY together..reminisce with him ..."Remember the time when we...

She has NO HISTORY with him....

Gotta go...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Well I just msged him actually about whether or not he has gone to the Dr this week because Im worried that the ADs aren't working (he says he feels no dif) and that I read some scary stuff about how they can do the opp effect sometimes and Im worried about him.

I often talk about the past with him. It is hard to do ENs now he is gone, but when he is here I try as much as possible.

Talking about sport (yuck!), cars (yuck!), travel (yeah) shows on tv, listening to him about soccer etc etc etc.

I think the ENs SHE meets were the sport and cars (motorbikes in particular) and the biggest EN is that she is living a fancy free life with no bills, kids and in the city where the nightlife is huge.

And we're in the 'burbs with mortgage, bills, and a place I wouldn't like to go outside too late at night for a walk! LOL

jus

Refer back specifically to the ENs that Harley listed, Juzzie.

Do you mean RECREATION, for example?

Seriously. I'm not laughing.

hello again

Well done! Your support net work is working very well for you round the world and round the clock that makes 24/7 cant do better than that.Everyone is offering good advice . I would like to add what I can from another perspective.

Although I have lived all of my married life in Aus i was born brought up and educated in UK So I recognise her style.

Shakespeare said know thine enemy and you have come up against a formidable OW she has a lot of energy to invest in getting what she wants .

.I think you said she came from Dagenham--- that says workling class South London where they breed an aggressive female who is a total control freak .This type usually chooses a male that she thinks she can completely dominate and proceeds to use tricks that have been honed from generation to generation to get him under her thumb .

She also needs to control you because you are getting between her and what she wants .I Can see that she is trying to [censored] with your mind .She has two ways of doing this ,one is to poison your h s attitude towards you by turning you into the bit* from h*ll She can only get to you through him and through the phone. I am certain the hang up call was her.

As long as you dont respond by becoming emotional you are doing OK Keep up thre glassy attitude and the reverse babble and dont give her the power to get a grip on your emotions.

You can get caller identity fom you your phone provider. You can also complain about nuisance calls and get calls from that no barred .

Good luck with the immigration project.

Don't worry you are a lot smarter than she is .Eventually her basic childish stupidity will catch her out .She may win a few battles but she aint goin to win the war .

Thanks Mimi and Myopia.

Im really not coping today - dont know why. Hole in chest is feeling as big as it was a fortnight ago. Maybe cause Ive got so much riding on this weekend (as in ENs and making it good) and I dont know if it will work.

In some ways I wish I didnt know about the job in N'Cstl. It has gotten my hopes up, but in a way it could just prolong the A because he won't see her all the time IYKWIM.

Thanks Myopia for the breakdown of her kind. Yes, she really DOES seem exactly as you indicate. Doesn't help my H is a weak weak and falling for her ploys.

Mimi - yes I did mean recreation! LOL! I will go back and study the ENs tonight, in fact, once the kids are in bed tonight I will sift through this site to get myself well and truly READY for my weekend.

Why is it some days you feel so strong and other days so damn pathetic again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

jus

I just heard this song on the radio by the Eagles, and then just after it - this one by Kasey Chambers.

So as much as they BOTH depressed me more - had to share! Cause Im in a depressed mood!

SORRY!

"Desperado"

Desperado, why don't you come to your senses?
You been out ridin' fences for so long now
Oh, you're a hard one
I know that you got your reasons
These things that are pleasin' you
Can hurt you somehow

Don't you draw the queen of diamonds, boy
She'll beat you if she's able
You know the queen of hearts is always your best bet

Now it seems to me, some fine things
Have been laid upon your table
But you only want the ones that you can't get

Desperado, oh, you ain't gettin' no younger
Your pain and your hunger, they're drivin' you home
And freedom, oh freedom well, that's just some people talkin'
Your prison is walking through this world all alone

Don't your feet get cold in the winter time?
The sky won't snow and the sun won't shine
It's hard to tell the night time from the day
You're losin' all your highs and lows
Ain't it funny how the feeling goes away?

Desperado, why don't you come to your senses?
Come down from your fences, open the gate
It may be rainin', but there's a rainbow above you
You better let somebody love you, before it's too late


And now the one by Kasey Chambers

Am I not pretty enough
Is my heart too broken
Do I cry too much
Am I too outspoken
Don't I make you laugh
Should I try it harder
Why do you see right through me

I live, I breathe,
I let it rain on me

I sleep, I wake,
I try hard not to break

I crave, I love,
I've waited long enough

I try as hard as I can

Am I not pretty enough
Is my heart too broken
Do I cry too much
Am I too outspoken
Don't I make you laugh
Should I try it harder
Why do you see right through me

I laugh, I feel,
I make believe it's real

I fall, I freeze,
I pray down on my knees

I hope, I stand,
I take it like a man

I try as hard as I can

Am I not pretty enough
Is my heart too broken

Do I cry too much
Am I too outspoken
Don't I make you laugh
Should I try it harder
Why do you see right through me

Why do you see, Why do you see,
Why do you see right through me
Why do you see, Why do you see,
Why do you see right through me
Why do you see, Why do you see,
Why do you see right through me
Why do you see, Why do you see,
Why do you see right through me

Am I not pretty enough
Is my heart too broken
Do I cry too much
Am I too outspoken
Don't I make you laugh
Should I try it harder
Why do you see right through me

Through me.

PSALM 27

1 The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

2 When the wicked, even mine enemies and my foes, came upon me to eat up my flesh, they stumbled and fell.

3 Though an host should encamp against me, my heart shall not fear: though war should rise against me, in this will I be confident.

4 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple.

5 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.

6 And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.

7 Hear, O LORD, when I cry with my voice: have mercy also upon me, and answer me.

8 When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.

9 Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation.

10 When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up.

11 Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies.

12 Deliver me not over unto the will of mine enemies: for false witnesses are risen up against me, and such as breathe out cruelty.

13 I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living.

14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.


Claim these promises. They are yours.
{{{{{{{Juzzie}}}}}}}}}}

thanks neak.

Still a bad day. Think he's got a touch of em cause he must have found out about her job 'out of town' Ohh poor poor didums. He might have to make a decision - fancy that.

Doesnt help that DS4 is bloody crying at the drop of a hat and his sister7 is hitting him for no reason.

School's back Monday. I have never looked forward to school going back. Ive always been one of these mums who LOVES the holidays with their kids. BUT I NEED TO GET BACK TO WORK AND GET THESE KIDS INTO SOME KIND OF ROUTINE. AND MYSELF.

Snap out of it Justine - you bloody misery guts GRRRR

OH F(*& what an afternoon.

Major LOVE BUSTING.

He found some emails that I had sent to friends, I hope to god he hasn't found this site - ive just changed my name but still....


I knew it was a bad day - i just KNEW IT IN MY BONES

He says 'ph ran out of juice. I'll be there 2mrw morn to take boy 2 RG. Interesting email u sent 2 ur mum and dad about calling me a [censored]?don't reply tell me 2mrw.'

Then 'actually 1 more also interested me? Wats meant by keep giving him more and more cakeand then use Plan B? Again no need to reply! I know every1 we know now knows But telling them all wat i send in text msgs and having a whole mothers group (my mums group)offering 20 dif plans as they read about my daily saga I dont like. They all gunna say wat u want them 2 hear so that u feel better even if it's [censored] or poss true? Not one of them could possibly understand what is going on in my head or between Ruth and me! For the billionth time it aint the friggen sex like 99.9% of em all think including my bloody mother! By the way this time Im sober. But im off 2 buy a bottle of red and b anything but sober! Next person I hear or read say she's a ****** or similar just using me 2 get a visa will be blacklisted!
Till the morning. NIght.'

I FEEL SO SICK.

He is so angry. I know it's babble, but he hasn't been ANGRY with me (except those msgs the other night)

Im going to LOSE it tomorrow when he arrives - I can tell.

What do I tell him about the cake eating etc?

OH FUOIU_)*)#)(#*)

HELP

If he barks at you tomorrow, just purr back!! Seriously, there are bound to be some major arguments over this. Sometimes anger is the only way to express yourself.

You need the support network these friends can offer you. They will build up your self-esteem, give you a shoulder to cry on, give you advice - none of which you have to take. Many people will tell you to kick him to the wayside, others might be delighted if you can work things out. But nobody is standing in your shoes and you have to do what feels right for you and your family.

So he's angry but let's just reassess the situation for a minute. He has left you, your three children, has shacked up with Root, is lying, cheating, drinking; having gone through this as a child he is choosing to inflict the same set of circumstances on his own kids, has forced you to cancel your wonderful trip to Germany, YET HE IS THE ANGRY ONE! Tosspot. He definitely thinks he's onto something special with this line, "Not one of them could possibly understand what is going on in my head or between Ruth and me!"

As for school holidays - I was exactly the same as you. I loved the time the kids were off. Now I need the stability and routine of work. I dwell on things far too much when I'm at home with time on my hands.

No matter what he does or says tomorrow, just keep reminding yourself that he is the one in the wrong. Perhaps your marriage was feeling a bit dull, let's face it three kids are hard work and there isn't much time for romance, but absolutely nothing you did gave him an excuse to have an A. He's the guilty party, don't let him make you feel bad because you needed the comfort of friends.

So, tomorrow, look gorgeous <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />,try not to over-react but if you do lose it, well try not to cry! It ruins the mascara. TT

Juzzie, bumping this up. I understand the reasons for the change of identity but don't want you to get lost on page 3!
Let us know how it goes with WS today. TT

Wow, I only found this purely by accident. I went to my home, and happened to see that one of my threads was entitled "help". What???????? I didn't remember adding that one, and it was posted by somebody named zuj! A couple sentences into the first post it all became clear to me.

Zuj, I can understand your being upset. Every time something major happens like this it feels like the end of the line. But again, WS's have very short attention spans. By this time next week he will have likely forgotten all about this. (Of course it will be something else instead, but that's depressing so we won't worry about it till it happens.)

If he even brings it up, just be very calm and stand your ground. "I want to save our marriage. I have been learning everything I can about affairs and how to recover from them, and have been asking for a wide variety of advice, all because I want our marriage to make it."

When he tried to argue with you, just repeat a variation on the above theme. "I still love you. I want our marriage to make it through this, and have been gathering knowledge to help me through this very painful time."

Broken record is the key. Stay on message. "I have been looking for support to keep my spirits up until your affair is over, and we have the chance to rebuild our marriage." There are 1000's of ways of saying it, but just keep going through the list.

If he asks you what cake-eating is, I would tell him frankly. "It's where you want to have your cake, and eat Root, too. You know, you can't go back and forth between two women for the long term. Eventually you will have to choose one or the other." (And then drop that subject, but if he says he HAS chosen her, just raise one eyebrow and say, "Ahhhhh," skeptically.)

On the off-chance he asks you what Plan B is, I would just say something like, "It's just something my friend was talking to me about, but it has no bearing on where we are right now." (And then quickly change the subject.) That is exactly true. It has no bearing on where you are right now, only on where you will be soon.

Last but not least, get a new email address to handle all A-related stuff, and make sure it's not a password he can guess. Later you will need to be fully honest with him, and you should not lie even now, but you cannot tell him everything you know. Go a little further underground so he does not see what is in store for him.

Hope you are having as good a weekend as possible. Hang in there with the kids. I'll be gone all day tomorrow, but will check in when I can to see how you're doing. {{{{Zuj}}}}

Hope this makes you snicker. Just found it.

Ruth Root - Artist Extraordinaire &...olleyes.gif" alt="" />

From what I've read, he's now going to desparately try to convince everyone it isn't about sex.

Now here's where RB c/b a great tool. Try this POV.

BS: If it isn't about the sex....y r u paying her..... anything?

WS: I'm not paying her anything.

BS: U sure? $$, time, attention, etc..... R U now doing that for strange, I mean strangers instead of your family? What kind of man r u?

WS: No. I mean.... I don't go to strangers, uh.... she's a fr....i...nd.

BS: A fiend? Eeeewuhhh.

WS: No uhhhh, uhhh, never mind.

BS: Yea.....no mind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> ..... and no sex drive.... tell me, what was the reason for the strong attraction.... I seemed to have forgotten. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

NOTE: Btw, a similar script was played between myself and my then WS. See, I got my RB practice in too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Thanks TT! Wow What a weekend I have had. (WARNING - EPIC NOVEL COMING UP!)

Cant say I was too strong when he arrived Sat morn. He said 'hello' to me, quite sheepishly. I said 'are you ok?' he said 'so/so'. I went over to him and I said 'I understand you are angry but you must understand that I AM VERY ANGRY TOO. And I need support. My friends are my support system. Ok, so you read things you don't appreciate, well, I've been through [censored] and back and I don't appreciate that either. Don't I deserve to have my friends support me?'

He said he supposed so and yes, he understood why but he was upset that everyone said bad things about her - HAH. He said he can understand why they say bad things about him but she doesn't deserve it'

I said 'oh no, that's right - she doesn't!'

So he hugged me then and said 'Id had a bad day, I was in a bad mood and finding those just made it worse.'

I said 'well, I had a bad day too but getting those from you just made it worse.'

And he then left with DS to go to dancing.

He msged me from there a few times and then msged to say he had to play 2 games of soccer that day.

So he got home at 10.45ish and I said 'have u made up your sports drink?' and he said 'no, i bought one this morning cause I didn't think I'd have a chance.'

I said 'you mean, you thought you'd have the sh!ts and p!ss off straight after dancing?'

He said 'maybe that too, but Ive calmed down now.'

So we all went to soccer and yet again he dispeared for 15mins (they are the longest toilet trips I tell ya!)

And the kids had a great time, and I had a nice time with one of the other wives (who doesn't know) and that was that.

We came home, he said 'wanna watch a dvd?' I said 'OK!'

We watched Billy Connelly after the kids went to bed and then he started looking up motorbikes on the internet.

At midnight I said 'well, IM going to bed. You look exhausted and should probably sleep on the lounge seeings as you'll need to be back here early tomorrow anyway'

He said 'perhaps' (which is always his no!) and I knew he wouldn't cause he hadn't even had a shower after soccer by this time.

I went to bed and at 1.10am he left (again I heard the pacing for over an hour - its good to have wooden floorboards sometimes! LOL)

I msged him 10mins later and said 'Drive Safely, be careful Ni Ni'

He wrote back 10mins later and said 'You are supposed to be alseep! R not home tonight,she at a girls night with friends. I'll have a shower, get my clothes ready for tomorrow and have a nap.'

Sure enough, 7am he arrived back here this morning. Looked tired out of his mind and so todays fiascos began....

Took the kids to their athletics presentation (they both got trophies - were very excited! lol). He was messaging when I looked back to where our seats were (as I had just moved up the front to take a photo of the kids on the stage).

Then we went to McDonalds for lunch. He was messaging from the seat as I was ordering the food.

Then he took Boy to the toilet - and they were gone for 10mins and he said 'OMG DS just sat and sat and it kept coming and coming' and I said 'oh - plenty of time for you to text message then'. And he said 'ahh - yeah' with a puzzled look on his face.

Oh - this morning when i said 'you must hvae only gotten 2 hours sleep' he said to me 'im just not tired' and I said 'Hmm, maybe it's guilt? Ya think?'

(I actually DO think it's the ADs, but he hasn't been back to the Dr since he was put on them 5 wks ago and I dont think they are working for him)

Well, by this afternoon, no actually, whilst I was at Macca's I thought 'geez, this just isn't WORTH it, ya know. It's all games, I dont know what's truth and lies any more.'

So I came home and he got BACK on the internet to look at bikes (more of the mid-life crisis) and I did a load of washing, unpacked the dishwasher, cleaned up the loungeroom (all things I wouldn't necessarily have done in his presence before, or after being out IYKWIM). Then I played a board game with the 2 older ones whilst DD18mth was sleeping. They then watched tv and I went to put clothes away and then sat on lounge up stairs with TV on and read a mag.

Just kept away from him.

Well, he started pacing about 4.15pm. And I thought - yep - it's coming soon. (oh - Id heard his ph go off a few times in the car after Maccas). And sure enough at 5 he said to me 'I'm going now' So I sat there and said 'oh right, yep, what do you explain to the kids' (cause at least every other time the kids have been in bed when he has left) 'I'll tell them Im going to my friends'. So I heard him come down and tell them something like that and DS got upset and he said "I'll be here early in the morn to take DD to school and D to babysitter'

So he comes upstairs and gives me a kiss, just a peck and said 'see u in the morning, ok?'

I said 'ok' and he left and I locked the doors. DD18mnths cried and cried calling 'dada' and then she climbed up ONTO the cabinent and tried to OPEN the frong door!

THEN.....

5 mins later my phone rings and it was him asking if his wallet was in backpack, sure enough it was, so he he turned around.

Well, this is where things got interesting.

I was busy downstairs when he came in and he said 'i'd just gotten to the petrol station when i thought where is it, lucky I checked'.

I said 'well u better sneak out because D will cry again'

'How long did she cry for before?'

'5 mins'

'Is that why the screen door was locked?'

I ignored that comment and said 'she actually climbed up onto the bench and tried to open the door! Little monkey'

And he said again 'is that why the screen door was locked?'

I looked at him and said 'No, the screen door was locked because I locked up - Its not like anyone is coming home later tonight.' I didnt say it sadly, I didnt say it sarcastically, I just said it.

He walked over to me (I had my hands in teh back pockets of my jeans) and he reached his arms around me and hugged me, then he kissed me - and I mean KISSED me! and his hands were roaming. I went WEAK at the knees I tell ya! OMG! Well, maintaining my composure (at least TRYING TO!) I said (i think!) 'D's downstairs you'd better sneak out now'

And I stood where I was while he left and he looked back as he closed the door.

AND I FELT SOOOOO EMPOWERED! I dunno why! I think cause I acted so blaze about it all and he came to me.

But.......

a few mins later my bubble burst and I dont know how much is games and how much isn't.

I had left my mobile sitting on the bench for the arvo as I went around and did things. I THOUGHT Id gotten off it msgs from other people regarding HIM or HER.

Well, I happened to look in my sent files and at 3.50pm he had sent himself, from my phone the msg I had written to his work friend about Root getting the job in Ncstle.

Now - I am peeved. NOt because the msg was nasty, it wasn't. In fact at the end of it it says 'I just dont know what to believe any more from who was my D husband and best friend.'

but I peeved that a) I didnt DELETE the bloody msg and b) that he snooped, foudn it and didnt delete that he had found it (alhtough I think I might have caught him by surprise as he sent it to himself twice) and c) that I have implicated that his friend is msging me.

So I suddenly DIDNT feel so in control any more! LOL

So I msged said friend and warned her and she msged back that 'she didnt give a hoot that it was common knowledge that Root had the job and he was a prat to be looking on my phone'

So at least, if he mentions it to her ( which he IS likely to do - he thinks he's in the right!) she can at least know it's coming.

So anyway - that has been my eventful, but non-eventful weekend.

And now the fun begins - back to work tomorrow and because it's a pupil free day I have a meeting on the other side of Sydney and can't get all 3 kids to their 3 different places they need to be. So WH is coming early in morn to do 2 of the runs. So I will see him in the morn (as if it were normal) , then in the arvo when I start teaching dancing, and then tomorrow night when we go to the MC.

Oh - thats right - I said to him when he arrived Sat morn 'so are we still doing the MC, and he said 'yes'' But as I say - not sure how much is games these days, "I'll appease Juzzie and go, she cant' say I didnt try then". That kind of cr^p!

Then back to schedule, Tues he will be here in morn and arvo, Wed we wont see him. (but he has an extra soccer game and he checked with me tonight about whether I was bringing the kids. I said ' have to teach') I am worried he is going to take HER to that game cause he knows we wont be there. I will actually say something to him about that, prob Tues or maybe at the MC. Some of these soccer ppl know,, but only ones that worked with him years ago and are 'friends'. The others dont, and theyve seen the kids and I there for the last 3 weeks. I would NOT appreciate him taking ROOT to the night game we can't go to.

I did msg him tonight to ask him to check with one of the other wives on Wed night about whether this toy we brought home is her sons. So *hopefully* that might remind him that ppl will be there that know us both.

Anyway - he msged me on his way BACK to Roots tonight - about some strange thing he saw in the traffic. But of course Ive not heard from him since cause he's arrived to her outstretched arms.

Ok - this is waayyy tooooo loooong but I had to let it all out!! I haven't been able to get on here for 2 days!! Been killing me! LOL!

Hugs
J

Thanks Neak - It almost seemed like that (re short attention span) by yesterday arvo.
I did get more out of him yesterday arvo actually. He was trying to tell me something about some ad on tv and he said 'ive told u before' and I said 'no you haven't, remember you have someone else to tell things to now, perhaps you told her.' and he said 'no, i told you, thats one of the things that annoys me, you switch off and dont listen to me.'

This is actually partly true - I know I am bad at that - but so is he and I said as much, and he said 'only about dancing' and I said 'only about cars!'. And we both laughed, but it is one of the things i have been making a concerted efffort to fix.

So, because we were talking about things that annoyed I said 'was it also because of the amount of time I spend on the internet' and he said 'well that annoys me because im up here (watching SPORT - see why Im on the internet!). And i said 'yes, i have spent too much time on there, I realise that.'

(mind u, he has spent SO MUCH TIME on here over this weekend) So if/when things are RESOLVED I will endeavour NOT to be on the net when he is home!

Thankyou for those wonderful responses btw. I love them. Just got to remember then at the right moment!

Hugs

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANKYOU!!!!!

NEEDED THAT!!!!!

Hi Orchid,

When u mean 'from what you've read' do you mean from what I posted, or in general WH babble? I am thinking (hoping) u mean the 2nd, especially when u then posted some great RB for me to use! LOL!


He just msged 'Ni Ni' to me - she must be in the toilet! lol

You know what he said to me tonight as he closed the door - dunno if it was the first time or the 2nd time he closed teh door - but whatever. He said 'be good'

WTF!!! BE GOOD!!! Give me some great RB to THAT one please -cause it's not the first time he's said it to me!

cheers!
J

Last post (for the moment I promise!!)

As I posted in my first one tonight, at one point today I just thought 'Nup, I cant do this. I can't put up with this [censored] and KNOW it is happening'

Things would come up, like something about one of the last times he was at the kids LAs and then he went out to the city 'for drinks with work mates' and I realise now - that was one of the first times he was with her. And he brought up that night, as in, when he was at LAs and I felt sick and thought 'you B, how can u THINK of that night and not know what you did afterwards'.

Or later, at home, we were discussing how we have to get our tax done from last year and I said 'Ive sorted last years from this years, but no further yet, I did that the night you were out ****** her.' and he rolled his eyes at me and I said 'well, you were, weren't you.'

Not smart of me I know - but sometimes Im just getting too fed up with it all.

DD18mth accidently stepped on his croutch today and he moaned in pain and I said 'good girl, do it again, but harder this time'

Yeah, anyway - Sometimes, and its getting more often, I feel like Im being taken for a ride. I feel like he is enjoying being able to play 'happy families, weekend daddy with a little bit of H thrown in' and then go back to the Root and escape.

And I wonder if he is just waiting for ME to throw the towel in. As Ive mentioned plenty of times previously. He is very gutless. In all things it's been text msgs, and if not through him, hints through others. For gods sake it was Root herself who told me she was sleeping with him.

So I am starting to wonder if THIS IS his plan. To wear me down. To MAKE me be the one to say 'bye bye'. Because I know he was shocked to the extreme that I didnt cut his [email]b@lls[/email] off when I found out the first night. Perhaps if it hadn't been the kids party that weekend the whole scenario would have been totally different - who knows.

So - dunno if the ADs for ME are starting to work, or if I AM getting stronger(somestimes I feel it, sometimes I dont.) Or if Im just sick of playing games and I know the games are gonna get ALOT tougher before they get better.

Now that she has the job in Ncstl she may not be going to UK. I found out THAT much this morn from him. (although he didnt SAY about the Ncstl job, he just said 'she has applied for jobs and if she gets them she wont be going back for her holiday'. Im not sure Im as upset about this as I thought I would be. I think its better if she is here because he *hopefully* will see thru her quicker.

Well, I have to get ready for bed. No late night tonight, hardly slept last night and school tomorrow. Im not looking forward to it. Saw a work friend at the kids presentation today and I could tell she knew - she didnt know where to look <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

My other work friends know and I am in no mood to 'talk' Some of them have had VERY bitter Ds and I dont need their negativity - ya know?

Do you think I should talk at MC about the whole 'it seems we're playing games' issue?

Off to brush my teeth and iron clothes for morning...

ta

I THINK I Just found her mothers mobile number! OMFG!! Should I text her???

WH borrowed my PDA the other day. It copies automatically, all his 'contacts' onto it's hard drive. I was just looking at it and it had 'Lyn Mobile' and a number that isn't the right set of numbers for a mobile in Australia.

However, my sis has had a UK mobile number for when she was on hols over there (would u believe she is actually ON A PLANE HOME RIGHT NOW) and other than the 44 the digits are the same length and start with the same numbers.

I am almost 100% sure it is Roots mother.

OMG! What should I do!!!!

What r u strong enough t/d?

L.

No Orchid - dont think I am as yet.....

Then add this to your tools, keep it in a safe spot, don't tell the WS what you have so you can use it when u r ready and see fit to use it correctly.

take care,
L.

i got this msg late last night. I really think he might be bipolar...

" I see Jo has been keeping you up to date as well? So R basically has a job in Ncstl or NB coming up! But u know that. She got ph call last week asking where she prefer but not the official offer yet. She not sure if its gunna be perm job or the perm part time 1 yet.so I bet ur wondering what Im gonna do? So am I! It wont force me home. Part of me wants to go to Ncstle. Part of me wants to stay here in town and most of me got NFI!

I wrote back and said 'I just sent u an email talking about feeling trapped' please read it when u have a chance, also, why u gotta be so cranky all the time'

He wrote back 'Im not cranky! Women just friggen confuse me no end! Just worse when Im like this. If i had a motorbike now and was on leave no1 would see me for couple of weeks! Ni Ni'

and thats the last Ive heard.

He should be here by now - or very shortly, to take kids to school.

Just wanted to get this down before he arrived.

Tscuss.
J

Zuj, your WH is going to do what he's got to do. I will be AMAZED if he gives her up. It is only when the reality of not interacting with you on a daily basis hits him, that he will realise what he has to lose.

That's my guess. Not to say you should jump ship and send him off but he reminds me so much of my WH when he was 'outed'. I also found out about his A from the OW. My husband is gutless and even to this day, I don't think he has ever mentioned OW's name to me. It's like he wants me to think he left, but not to be with her.

2 yrs past Dday he wants to come back. Of course. Now the ball is in my court and I don't know want to play anymore.

Hey TT,

Is there a link to your story? I am scared when I read your post cause I do think you're right. Do you mean that you 'KNOW you don't want to play anymore' or "NOW you don't wanna play anymore'. I am so scared that will be me. HOw did your kids take it.

I went to speak to the counsellor at DD school today but she was in a meeting. I will give her a call tomorrow to let her know and ask her to have a 'chat' with DD, i am very worried about her.

We've just gotten back from the MC. And you'll all be pleased to know that, THANKFULLY he is one of these ones who DOES address the A.

But Im not in the frame of mind to talk about it atm.

It is very draining, isn't it.

OK - Orchid your RB is what the MC said to do - cept he called it paraphrasing! I had a wee giggle to myself when he was talking about it!

It is what he wants us to try this week.

He said 'yes, it is very artificial and plastic but I want you for 3mins each, every day to have a conversation where you say somethign u like and/or dont like about the other person and then the other persons paraphrases it.' So you know that you have been heard.'

No more than 6 mins and for no more than a week because YES it is difficult to do and artifical but you have to start communicating, and this is the first peg.

There are lots of stepping stones and not all of them are going to be useful all the time.

Umm - just thought of that and had to share.
j

Zuj, One minute I think I'll have him back and then I change my mind. It's a gigantic mess. My WH is VERY ill with kidney failure so she's used him up and spat him out, and now it's up to me to decide what to do. I'm sure there is a link to my story but originally I posted as Tummytuck (they changed the board about a while ago and I lost my login). If you do a search on my name, I'm sure you can find all the old crap.

You have made one enormous step that my WH would not take - couldn't get him near a counsellor because "nobody would understand what was going on his head"! Yeah, because he was unique.

You also have the advantage that it hasn;t actually been going on that long. Mine was knee-deep in the A when I finally found out why he'd been so weird and distant. I put EVERYTHING down to bad health, long hours, and medication! Didn't cross my mind he'd find the energy to screw around. It was blatently obvious but I wasn't on the look out for an A so I didn't pick up on the signs. Ah well, TT

Am having a bad day today.

Had to call him to just talk, and talked relationship. Even though he was at work.

Have hole in chest again today.

I think it's thinking about Thursday, because 2mrw is actually (3rd May) 15 years since our first date! We went and saw 'Misery' at the movies. I deliberately chose a scary movie so I could 'feign' being frightened! lol!

I wanna remind him tomorrow.

I wont see him tomorrow.

2night we start the 'paraphrasing'

He isn't wearing his wedding ring - he isn't wearing all of his rings. I said to him this morning, you're not wearing your wedding ring, he said 'im not wearing any of them' He has lost alot of weight but that is going to be one of my 'paraphrases' tonight.'

'It hurts me to see you not wearing your wedding ring. It makes me think that you have already given up on our marriage.'

I went and saw the cousellor at DD school today. She was great. Unfortunately she is going to a school camp for the rest of the week but will see DD on Monday.

TT - I am very sorry to hear about your WH illness. This worries me about my WH too. That he is so dependant on medication and is still popping lots and lots and lots of paracetamol on top of this. I can't imagine what it is doing to his liver and kidneys.

I agree about it being a big step that he would go to the MC. But as Ive said before, I dont know if it's just to appease me so that he can say 'he's tried'.

I got my hopes up last night when I said something needy after the MC like 'Not enough to make you come home' and he said 'not yet'.

So today when I said 'when u said last night 'not yet' did u mean that you are thinking about it' and he said 'sometimes, but I wasn't going to say NO to you because that is too final.'

So he is still doing the fob off.

But today my WH who usually did so much around the house, arrived at 6.30am. I got up and had a shocking headache so said to him I was taking 2 tablets and going to lie down for 20mins before I got up. All the clothes were on the ironing board ready to be ironed for the kids.

I got up in the 20mins and he was sitting on the computer and hadn't done any ironing. DD18months was up and so was DS and he hadn't gotten them breakfast.

Things he would always have done <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Does he think that 'being here' in the morning to take DS to school is enough of his responsibility - it's not.

That will be ANOTHER of my paraphrases tonight I think. How disapointed I was that he didnt do what he would normally have done.

I did tell him last night, after the MC that he had become so selfish. He didnt like that, I saw him back away.

OH and he was v worreid about me driving home from there and he said a doz times' please msg me when u get home so I know uv arrived safely'.

So I did - and he never responded and I said to him this morning 'you didnt respond' and he said 'sorry'. I said 'how do you think that makes me feel. You cared enough when you left the MC but by the time u got to her house u had forgotten.'

No response.

Of all the things you mentioned, the only one I think you should say is simply, "It hurts me that you don't wear your wedding ring anymore." Don't say the rest about having given up, because in his mind, he has. He thinks it's you that just doesn't get it. Time will show him how wrong he is, but your reminders need to be with actions, not words.

As to helping out in the mornings, if you demand it like that, he will resist just to be contrary, and go around the rest of the morning thinking how happy he is to be away from the nagging. (Of course it is not nagging, but he will take it that way.)

Back up to square one. When he arrives, ask him if he can help iron and start breakfast for the kids. Say please, and smile at him. Tell him you appreciate his help, and that it means so much to the kids to get to spend this extra time with him.

And if he turns stinky about it, I would recommend just doing it yourself without comment, or at least no more than a surprised, yet neutral, "Oh! I thought you were going to do that. Well, come on, kids, let's go [whatever he didn't do]."

Besides, if you put on a keylogger and let him play on your computer in the mornings, you may find out some helpful info.

You've got to pick your battles, and save your energy for the big things that really count. Honestly, I'm surprised he has been doing as much as he has. Most WS, mine included, seem to forget during the A that they even have children, much less responsibilities around the house.

Also, don't keep on him about coming home. Once in a while, like every week or two, mention that you miss him and that you wish he would come home, but you don't want him to feel that you are pressuring him, or working up to an ultimatum.

Even in my PBL (well, the first one) I made it clear, "I am not making you choose. You can take as long as you like to choose between us, but in the meantime I am making this choice for myself." He needs enough rope to hang himself. If you make the rope too tight, he will run farther away.

Now, if you can be light and fluffy, just taking a happy little stroll down memory lane, you could reminisce about your first date. "Wow, can you believe it's been exactly ___ years since our first date? I still remember that we watched Misery, and that I clung to you, pretending to be scared." **tinkling laugh** "We were so young and cute then..." But then turn the subject and resist the urge to become morose and clingy.

Memories have a lot of power, but when you bring them up it needs to be in a cheerful, nonthreatening way. Being clingy and needy will drive him away, but being attractive and strong will awaken urges to be with you more, even if he does not act on them at the time. This will lead to his becoming even more conflicted and angry, but that is good because that downward spiral will eventually lead to the implosion of the A.

Remember, there is nothing that you, or anyone else, can do to end the A. No single memory, no amount of MC, no questioning, no logic, no love and tenderness, none of that alone will bring it to an end. They will contribute to its downfall, and put you in the best possible place for recovery, but it is still a process that takes time. The disease has to run its course, and there is little except exposure that will run it along any faster.

Keep being strong. Remember, you are the sane one right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok - so what's a keylogger? See WH is the IT expert, not me. IN fact I am very worried that he has found this thread cause stupid me, in all my misery and stress, I wasn't cleaning the history. So he could well have sent himself the link to work and be checking it.

Mind you. Really, it just shows how much I love the stupid bugger.

Today I went to my GP - which is more like a counselling session, so I came out nice and strong. And low and behold there is a msg from WH saying 'Am really struggling today! Just v flat and tired.One month till holidays! Am thinking of going away somewhere by myself for a couple of days to do sweet bugger all.'

I wrote back and said 'Yeah, those days are hard, had one yesterday. 2day Im better tho. Maybe u can take ur golf clubs and go find some course to vege at in your holidays?'

He wrote back straight away to say 'Not a bad idea! By the way, you looked good this morn. Just want u at least to eat small bits so u dont get physically ill, ok!'

Like BLOODY ******! Thanks for noticing but grrrrr. I guess at least he DID notice?! And I wasn't even dressed up, just jeans and a soccer top (maybe it was the soccer top? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He msged my sister today and said 'I know you probabally dont wanna hear from me, and wont forgive me for a long time, if ever but I just wanted to wish you a happy birthday'.

Well actually, it was my OTHER sisters birthday, at that was 2 days ago! lol!

So my sis was thinking 'Hmm,should respond' but has decided at this stage, not to.


Neak, thanks so much for your response. I know I shouldn't be pressuring about coming home. Sometimes it just blurts out before I can stop it. Thats why I said about him 'going away' in his holidays. He will PROBABLY go up to her (because she will probably be up in Ncstl by then) but perhaps that is for the best. It is one month away - which means I will hve been doing plan A for exactly 2 months. So that would mean that Plan B could happen kinda, as he is still getting paid but has left. IYKWIM.

Perhaps the lack of the daily (or almost daily) visual contact with the kids and me and the constant contact with her will be enough to allow the disease to run it course?

I have booked into a local welfare counsellor for tomorrow morning. Free - thank god. And Im lucky, my Dr is medicare (we have free healthcare here in Australia).So 2 days in a row I am going to be able to have someone to talk to. And tomorrow especially I am glad to have it.

If he thinks he's flat today - god help him tomorrow I'd say. But, as someone said, she has probably gotten something BIG planned for tomorrow night especially to use against me/him seeings as it is our anniversary.

Damn, I think I have a mouse under the fridge! Keep hearing clicking noises.... off to investigate.

He even said to teh psych it's not really the sex with her, just the escape from reality. SO HE KNOWS IT>


Well he has to face reality sometime

Heard this on the radio this morning.

Q. How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?

A Only one - but the light bulb has to WANT to change

Let's hope it's soon Aptiva!

Hi Zuj. Hope the anniversary isn't too awful under the circumstances. TT

Have an anniversary...I promise the next one will be better, one way or the other. (And almost certainly with a new, happier marriage.)

Keep looking ahead, past the hard part.

SICK SICK SICK OF IT!

Life has to friggen go on - that is the problem. I dont want it to go on - especially today. But when even a new bloody counsellor says to me 'you are an incredibly strong woman to be able to cope with all that you have, and to actually face Root and have her throw that in your face at the soccer and react the way you did takes incredible courage'

WOO FLIPPIN HOOO.

Where is the strength when I collapse in a heap on the floor after sorting the washing from teh clothes line because there is no 'daddy' pile.

Where is the strength when I roll over in the middle of the night and it's into my DD7's arms and not my DHs.

Where is the strength when I can't concentrate on a conversation my 4 year old son is having with me about dinosaurs and he just comes up to me and says 'i love u the best in the world mummy' and hugs me.

Where is the strength today - TODAY when Im supposed to be excitingly getting ready for a 'night on the town' because it's our big 10 year milestone and instead Im sobbing over a bloody computer screen.

When I get a message from him at 8.30am that says 'Happy 10th Wedding Anniversary Juz. Wish it was under diff circumstances. Please dont get any sort of gift or anything. Save it for when/if things r sorted out, ok? And dont analyze this msg it just says what it says.' And I receive that msg whilst trying to get the kids breakfast ready and have to leave the room to howl for 5 mins.


I AM NOT STRONG. I am bloody so weak and I can't handle this any day but today I really really can't.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

{{{{{{{{Zuj}}}}}}}}}} Sorry, I know this is so hard.

Well first things first, you had a confrontation at soccer??????? Did you already post it and I missed it, or did it just happen? Wow!

Now as to your being strong, you got up this morning, didn't you? You are walking through the fires of ****** and you haven't killed either of the people who are responsible, right? That right there ought to qualify you (and all the rest of us, too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) for a medal at the least. The Amazing Faithful Spouse Award.

You and I could argue all day long about whether it is worse to wake up to an empty bed, or to jump under the covers really quick at 2am and pretend to be asleep because you know your husband has just come to you from his mistress' bed and now is crawling into yours, and you're afraid that if you say one word you will start screaming at him and not be able to stop. (Astute readers may detect a bias. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

My point is that it is not possible to have a My Pain Is Bigger Than Your Pain contest. It's all excruciatingly unbearable, whether they move out or stay, whether they act totally insane all the time or only part of it. It's like trying to argue that one infinity is bigger than another infinity. You are amazing and strong for just being yourself, and for being willing to go through this agony for the hope of the new marriage that is waiting for you on the other end of this.

No matter what happens, you will be able to look back without regret. You were faithful to your vows. You went above and beyond everything you promised to do. You fulfilled your sacred contract even after it had been broken by another. He, on the other hand, will have regrets that last a lifetime, even when he comes back to you. He will look back with shame on the person he once was.

The pleasures of sin last such a short time, and there is a huge price to pay for them after. Someday soon, you will be curled up next to your husband in bed, still hurting but satisfied that your efforts finally paid off. While he lies there in the dark trying to put aside dark images of his betrayal of the one person he loved most. While she clings to the toilet, vomiting because she has been abruptly abandoned.

A BS does feel the most pain, but out of the 3 members of this unholy triangle, it's the only position I would ever be willing to fill.

I got censored again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Zuj - at least he acknowledged the day and has kept the lines of communication open throughout this A. I do feel like he NEEDS to 'chat' with you.

Sorry you were feeling so down yesterday. The highs and lows after an A are relentless. ((Zuj)) TT

Zuj,

I agree with TT - it's good he is keeping contact with you. My feeling is that if he were ready to move on, he would not be in contact, particularly on your 10 yr A.

My heart goes out to you. It hurts so much but I too would not take another position in this triangle. You are the one who can hold your head up high with pride. But I know pride doesn't keep you warm at night.

All I can say is that I had a similar sitch with my son's 18th Birthday in March. It crushed me that my H was not there where he should be and I kept having to excuse myself to go cry so I wouldn't ruin my son's night. I felt completely hopeless and felt things would never be right again. But one week later, my H came home and we are in recovery. Don't lose hope. Be strong and keep doing what you are doing. Root will lose.

Take care.

Nkay

I remember you saying Neak that it would get worse before it got better. Well, I think yesterday was definately a 'worse' for both of us.

He msged me yesterday afternoon to say he had had a very very low day, lowest ever and that the night before he had 'accidently' spent $118 at a restaurant (by himself) and before he knew it he'd had 2 bottles of wine and 2 courses (money we can ill afford but I didnt mention that) and how he is such a ****** and he can't believewhat he has done with me and that he knows i have forgiven him but I will never ever trust him again.'

etc etc etc

Then this morn he rang me again and said that he had had v good chat with woman from work on way up to work site today and she told him he has to a) get into IC and b) go away for a week or so on his own in his holidays and work out what he is doing.

He has now msged me to ask me would I meet him in the city tonight for dinner and a chat - not too heavy but a chat. I know that ROOT is out tonight- and I so want to say to him him 'why am I only good enough when Root is unavailable'. And I probably will say it! lol

I actually did something naughty last night. I got the kids to stay at mum and dads and at 4am I drove into the city and found his work car and I put a card under the wipers. It took me half an hour to find his car!! God knows what I must have looked like prowling around in my car! LOL

But I had found this card that was so perfect. My WH loves golf and it was this card that said 'In golf as in life it's the follow through that makes all the difference'.

And I remembered what you said Neak about how powerful memories are. So I wrote inside it, happy and sad memories from the past 10 years of us.

He was v shocked this morning.

Ok - so tell me what I should do tonight??!!!

TT and Nkay - thanks so much for the hugs. I really NEED them atm. I did try to explain to WH today on the ph that the trust thing has to come from ME, and he can't say I will never trust him again, that's something I have to work out for myself. But at this stage I WANT to be able to trust him again.

Neak - the soccer confrontation was the day I found out about the A. I took DS to go watch him and SHE was there. And she sat down quite happily next to me chatting about MY children. And it was the way she said something that suddenly made me twig and so I asked her outright and she said 'the sex was so good she can't even remember when it all started'. B!tch. But I have then found out that it had started around the 23rd Feb, and she only came to work at the office at the start of Feb.

Zuj - if you go, be prepared for some very fogged up crap that might hurt you a lot.

Do you really believe OW wasn't with him in the restaurant last night and that he spent all that money on himself? And do you really think he wants a week away alone or will she be in the picture?

Trust is something he has to earn by consistent behaviour. At the moment, you MUST doubt him. WS's are liars and cheats. Trust only yourself until the A is over, he is living back at home and has proven over time that he can be the husband and father you all deserve. TT

And here's another hug because my anniversary is coming up and I don't know how to handle it, other than to ignore it! ((((Zuj))))

Well, regarding the restaurant TT, I do believe him, because he told me that he had gotten off the ph from me after soccer, gone into HER house and found her curled up on the lounge asleep. She had heard from her mum that her dad was sick again and she just wanted to be left alone so he went for a walk. Decided to go into a coffee shop for coffee and ended up ordering meal etc.

Now - regarding the week away alone - Well yes - depends on WHERE he goes doesn't it! he did say again yesterday that root has job in Ncstl. I guess what I WANT to ask him is does he expect me to hang around until she is gone because I could well NOT be here when she is gone.

And I will quote you on the trust issue - THANKYOU. I will say to him again about how he can't say I wont trust him that and then quote what you have said.

I know there will be fogged up crap tonight. I KNOW I KNOW. But I really want to see him. I haven't seen him since Tuesday <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

And I do know that we have to talk about stuff - other stuff, like money etc and I think HE is thinking that it is a more neutral environment than here.

He is still coming tomorrow morning to take DS to dancing, and tonight I will ask him if he can spend Sunday with us because the kids haven't had any time with him except for the pick up and drop offs for school - which hardly count as 'daddy time'.

And ((((TT)))))) will your WH remember your anni do you think?

It will be v hard to drive back home tonight without him though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> And you didn't manually strangle her on the spot? You have class, woman! Not to mention iron self-control.

For tonight...as always, look and act your best. P l e a s e don't ask him why you're only good enough when she is unavailable. That is not the strong, confident image you need to portray.

LISTEN to what he has to say. If he wants to chat about trivial stuff, do that. If his idea of chat is to have a bit of R talk, just listen. Then, when he starts winding down, say something like, "That's all very nice, but there isn't much sense talking about it while she is still in the picture."

If he brings up that you won't be able to trust him any more, come back to the same little song. "Of COURSE I can't trust you while she's in the picture. Get rid of her for good, and you will be amazed how quickly you can earn my trust back."

In this way, you gently but firmly let him know what you expect from him. This is the early stage of negotiating NC. It seldom works by itself, but it sets the stage for Plan B, and for an eventual recovery.

At whatever point he is willing to go to NC, then you start talking about the precautions and boundaries, and all the changes you will both have to make to safeguard yourselves. By the time he is willing to NC, he may also be willing to come on here and post. If not, put out a holler for advice and share the responses with him. If he is truly recommitted, he will be willing to do whatever it takes.

He will need to sense that it is you deciding to take him back, more than him deciding to come back.

I say this now, just in case. I don't think he is ready to come back yet, though I'd lay dollars to donuts that he's having second thoughts. But I also know from personal experience that you have to be ready all the time, because it can happen without warning. Whenever it does, take your time.

(I spent all my time after I found MB working to bust up the affair, figuring I would have several months of Plan B in which to study up on recovery. It didn't work out that way, so I have to recommend being ready for anything, any time.)

Everything you are describing from him is a very, very good sign. The more doubts he has, the less pleasant A-land is. The less pleasant A-land is, the more doubts he has. And so on. The spiral keeps getting tighter and tighter, until kablooie! Chocolate everywhere!

Awesome job with the good memories. Take a little time to reminisce with him every now and again throughout Plan A. Jog his foggy memory. AJ specifically mentioned the (many) cards I gave him as being a part of what helped him come back. Keep up the good work - your marriage is soooo far from over.

I love you Neak!! THANKYOU!!!!! You're last sentence has me bawling my eyes out!!!

I agree with you - I dont *think* he's ready to come back yet either, but the signs of doubt are there well and truly. I actually got a XO on the end of a text last night or today (can't remember).

And yes - 'of course I can't trust you while she's in the picture' is such a good line. Just gotta remember all these great lines when the time comes.

Just went up to see what i should wear. Gonna look great but casual. Gotta act with C L A S S. And hey - I can do it - did it with b!tchface, i can do it with the man I love.

When u said Neak that AJ mentioned to you about the cards being part of what helped him come back. Well that is why my sister msged him yesterday.

She hasn't for weeks. He has every so often. Then she said to me yesterday; 'what if he is testing the waters, what if he is looking for a lifeline?'

So she msged him 'the human heart has such a huge capacity for forgiveness Mark, don't forget that. I miss not being able to talk to you.' And that was that. He wrote back to her about how much that meant to him, thankyou so much.

So perhaps that is something else that may help through the fog?

I have to go and try and write a 21st speech now, for tomorrow night. A 21st I have to go to alone <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

OK....

I am dressed. I look great (if I do say so myself! lol!) I fit into pants that I haven't worn since, well, to tell you the truth, Ive never worn! lol! nice and casual but dressy and elegant. They are my sisters! Im wearing her top too! lol! Things that dont fit her anymore!

I think I weighed more than this when I was married and although this HAS NOT been the right way to lose weight it is the only positive in this [email]h@ll[/email] of an existance I am living in atm!

Now - I have stood in front of the mirror for 20 mins and told myself 'YOU ARE NOT A DOORMAT. YOU ARE THE SANE ONE. YOU CAN GO OUT AND SHOW YOUR WH HOW WONDERFUL HIS WIFE IS.'

The kids are sad that they aren't coming out to see daddy but I said that we were going out for dinner to do some talking, and they are excited about going to the babysitters anyway.

Now I need to continue to chant my mantra the whole way into the city (45min drive) and show my WH that my DH is NOT gone forever, that HE can get through this.

I know I mustn't get my hopes up. I KNOW he won't be back yet. But if it just plants those seeds, fertilises them just a little bit - then something has come of it. And, to be totally truthful, I am glad to have a night out with my H, I miss him so.

Where ever you are - say some prayers for me please. For me to be strong and for WH to see the light.

In light and love,

J

J,

Remember what most fertilizers are made from. You though can kill that A with your own BS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Go in with the attitude that YOU choose NOT t/b part of the A and it's tangled web of deceit. Make the choices for yourself.

This will show your H the path, the light he needs to emerge from the death grips of the WS.

Fertilize with RB. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Light the way back to your heart but don't be in a hurry to let just 'anyone' in. U r better than that and he needs to know it. Show your value. Just don't be conceited or stuckup.

Have a fun!

L.

Zuj - how did it go?

It was good TT.

You're all right, there was alot of fog babble there, but I babbled right back.

And Neak, yep, he's not ready yet - but def v v confused. And he had a good night too.

Rel wasn't really mentioned at all, it was just light stuff.

We walked along the harbour and back to where I had parked the car and he held me for a long time. And then said 'thankyou for not talking heavy stuff, I know it must have been hard'

And I said 'no, it was nice just to go out, but you know that nothing can change until SHE is longer in the picture'

Then he msged me all the way home to check I was ok (it was 1am by this stage)

He arrived at 8am to pick up boy from dancing and came up and kissed me, and then pulled back. He then sent me a msg on the way to dancing that said 'sorry I couldn't kiss you. While Im sleeping in someone elses bed it's just not right. Same as sleeping. Not fair or right, hope u understand.'

When he got back from dancing he asked me if I understood and i said 'yes I do, part of me doesn't want you to kiss me because it feels like Im being used, but another part of me has had u kiss me for the last 15 years and I have been missing that these past 6 weeks. Who is it not fair to'.

He said 'Ive been such a heel, it's not right for you or I, it just makes it more confusing'

and we left it at that.

He left about an hour ago, to go for a long drive down the coast road. He saw my dad today and dad spoke to him first, and so when WH came inside he said to me 'im going to msg your parents and thank them for looking after kids so much recently'

And he has. Mum rang me.

He said he'll ring me this arvo to check all is ok. I just wrote him one msg, perhaps not a great one, but one none the less. I had said again this morning about how, whilst root is in the picture there IS no picture.

Oh - when he left this arvo DS4 was sobbing and holding on, 'I wanna come for a drive too daddy, let me come too, please can I come with you, I miss you.' It was great! All the stuff that i had been trying to tell him was happening, but he had never witnessed himself.

He kept looking at me as he left saying 'im so sorry' (meaning about Boy) I know it really really really cut him up to see it.

So this is what I wrote him "Just 1 msg and I will leave u alone I promise! Perhaps see if u can find a public ph at some beach and give that counselling service a call. So its not just going thru your head a zillion miles an hour. I promise 2 keep things light tomorrow for the kids and our sake, so we can have some good family time. When u call later we can talk about it. What P (sister) said in her msg applies to all. Dont forget taht. But everything will take baby steps. I cannot and will not rush headlong back into 'us' and I know u can't either. Please read my letters and cards when u feel most alone, because you're not. I think about you and how this can be made right constantly but BABYSTEPS. and U know what those 1st steps have to be. Have a peaceful drive xo'

And Ive not msged him since, although he has just sent thru that he msged my parents.

Oh - he said last night that he can't forgive his mother for what she said to him, and until she apologises he wont speak to her. Well, I said 'I dont know what she said to you, so i can't judge, but i do know she was totally distraught and no doubt that came across in her conversation with you.' i mean - how dare he think he has the right to ask for an apology from her - mind you - as I say, i dont rightly know what she said - but it was obviously very nasty!! :0

When he was leaving I did ask what he was doing tonight and he said 'oh, I'll see where I end up, but will just go back and see' and I was looking far off and he said 'don't, i know what you're thinking, don't think that, ok.' and my eyes filled up but I maintained my composure.

So yes - last night was ..... interesting. There are just so many games and so much pretense and it makes me so sad.

You know - as much as he has said 'he has been a shi!thead and he has been a heel and he can't believe he's done this to us' he still hasn't looked at me and said 'i am sorry' Well, he did the first night i confronted him, at the soccer at half time when I said 'how could you?', but since then. he's never said it outright. I so need to hear that - but realise atm I prob wont.

Oh - last night he was saying again about getting away for a week and he said because I need to just have time away from everyone, from you and the kids because I know you love me and want to sort things out so there is pressure there, from Root because she's Root (I so wanted to follow that up - but didnt want to interupt him) and from all everyday life.'

I said 'well dont take your phone!' He said ' I need to in case something happens with the kids and u have to contact me.' Then he said 'would u be right if I went away for a week, with not seeing or hearing from me for a week.' And I said 'well, we'll survive im sure.'

Ummm - I think that is all - I think.....

Each day proves such totally different scenarios!

Oh - on a bad note I find out that IF root gets the ncstl job (which is 99.9% happening) then she is able to change her visa to a full holiday visa - F^<K!!!! So she doesn't have to go back in September. She is on some permit visitors thing now - I dont know.. Might go and check out the immigration site I think.

hugs

OH - I just remembered something else.

He said to me 'Im glad we did this, Im sorry I couldn't do it last night (anni) with you.'

I said 'I wouldn't have done this last night, no way. This isn't going out for our anniversary.'

And again today I said to him 'you know, last night wasn't about our anniversary, It wasn't a happy anniversary so that wasnt' why we were going out.'

He said 'i know, we will keep that for when things are right.'

I said 'yes' and I thought *when things are right?!!*

But I know I read waaaay toooo much into everything he says or does or doesnt do. It is a bad trait of mine, which has come to the forefront even more these past weeks.

{{{{{{{{{Zuj}}}}}}}}}}} Still doing great!

It is only reading too much into things if you think that because he said xyz he will be back any second now. I think it is fine to pin long-term hopes on his statements and actions. He is just your typical conflicted WS, maybe even a bit more conflicted than most for how early in the game you are, and all that is good.

If you have the chance, if the subject comes up again as to why he won't kiss you when he's sleeping with someone else, gently remind him, "You know, you can't be unfaithful to your mistress. You can only be unfaithful to your wife."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh Neak - I LIKE that sentence. See - that puts it SO MUCH MORE ELQUENTLY (sp?!) than what I wanted to say but conveys the exact same feeling.

Tonight Ive been at the 21st. It was a good night, I was pretty sad but had lots of friends around me. My DD had a lovely time and didn't want to come home!!

He msged me as I arrived there to say how miserable he was and how upset he was at DS's reaction today to his leaving. It was like - YEP - reality check! You finally are SEEING something.

I got a bit emotional when I had to do my speech, thankfully my friends knew why and were good for me.

One bad/sad thing. Someone I know came up to chat and then said 'so where is M?' Well F^>K that is the first time ive been asked' So I said 'We've actually separated atm, he is off having a midlife crisis.' Well poor woman didnt know what to say and I told her 'look that is the first time ive had to tell anyone, so Im not feeling too good either.'

Funnily enough my mum had the same question pinned on her tonight when she was out with my other 2 children. A friend came up and asked her how her daughter was. She assumed she meant my sister and was replying when it dawned on her she meant me. She was v shocked that this person knew. So mum just said 'Well, he is having a nervous breakdown, if he hasn't already had it and has taken off.'

But it shook her up.

Its now half past midnight and Ive just gotten the kids to bed. Ive taken a sleeping tablet (so if this gets a bit drunk looking you'll know why! LOL) and I am going to put the phones on silent. Hoping I can get a good lie in in the morning.

WH said 'he will see how he feels tomorrow as to whether he visits, if he still feels so sad (over DS) he might not be able to do it!' GRRRR

So, after lunch tomorrow Im going to take kids, and mum and dad up to the local park with the bikes and we'll have a nice arvo. If WH comes around he can msg me and come up to the park. Of course I hope he does but I dont think he will.

It was awful tonight, being out with my friends, who had their husbands and children there (all dancing students of mine) and my husband, who is great mates with these blokes, not being there. It was just soooo sad. He WOULD have had a good time, and if I could have gotten him there it would have been a wake up call with regard to 'family' life. NOt the single fancy free (fantasy) life he is living atm - in which he is still miserable.

ANyway, i can feel my eyes getting heavy - so that's a good sign!

Signing out till the morrow....

On the other hand, once you get back together, any of your friends whose H's have an A will be calling you for help, asking how you got him back, and if there is any hope for them.

Best of all, you will know just what to tell them.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Zuj,
I don't post much but try to keep up with your story. I see a lot of similarities in us.

Four years ago, my H left me & our 3 sons to pursue a hoochi mama that he was having an EA with. He moved in with a single friend of his and began acting as if he was single.

He would go to the kids' soccer games and then help me get them in the van. The kids would cry & beg him to come home with us. Though he looked sad, he would still walk away. Once, my oldest said, "Why don't you kiss Mom goodbye?" My H replied, "No. I've got to go." That burned.

During his MLC, he went tanning, got a tattoo, had his teeth whitened, & dyed the gray out of his hair. Though he was 40, he played on 2 different softball teams made up of 20-something single guys. The boys and I would go days without hearing from him.

I, too, grasped at what I could. I still remember a conversation on the phone when I started to cry. He said, "What's the matter, Honey?" Just calling me "Honey" gave me a glimmer.

Today, 4 years later, my H is at every one of our sons' sports games & meets. He coaches & is the most attentive H & father anyone could ask for.

I still have fear & am recovering. There are issues that we need to deal with, but he is home every night. And you know what else? I get kissed!!! ALOT!!!

There is hope, Zuj. Hang in there!

Tatertot

Oh Tatertot - you give me hope.

I have heard from WH this morning, he is off checking out motorbikes (more of the MLC) and then is coming over and we're all going over to see the Dr and to have lunch on the beach.

I have just rung the drs surgery to ask the doc to ring me back. I wanna talk to him before WH goes in and explain how much of a break down he is having, surviving on 2 hours sleep, etc.

I will tell the Dr all of it and ask him just to tune out/forget whatever he feels he shouldn't hear from me.

Then when we go to the Drs we'll all go in first off, so the kids can get seen to, then I'll leave M in there with him.

The ADs just aren't working. He is worse, he is saying screwy stuff. If we had private cover I'd get him to the private psych hospital to have him assessed but we don't. HOpefully the Dr will take it very seriously. He has been our family dr for 8 years, and WH gets on v well with him.

Just hope the Dr rings back.

Thanks so much Tatertot for writing to me, how long was your WH away for? Unfortunately my WH is not just in an EA, it's a PA as well.

The pain of not hearing from him for days must have been awful. I have trouble not hearing from him for hours <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I wrote him a little letter last night, it was after I logged off here and I still wasn't too tired. I just wrote in it, like a diary. Things that I would normally get to tell him, but cause he's not here I can't. So I will give that to him this arvo as well.

Wish me luck!

Tatertot - one more thing - financially - how on earth did yu cope?

Thats one of our biggest burdens, finance and this of course is just adding and adding to it.

Like today - having lunch on the beach will mean BUYING lunch. We can hardly afford it atm. The same as going out for dinner the other night. I desparetly wanted to, but at the back of my mind all I could think of was 'omg - we can't afford this!'

Zuj,

I have also been following your posts since the beginning b/c our d-days are so close together. You (and everyone on MB) are in my prayers. My sitch is relatively good now since my H is totally remorseful and actually told me on his own about the A when I may never have found out otherwise (but I would've always wondered). We are seeing a MC and he is in a Christian 12-step program, thank God!

What Neak said about you being able to help others really hits home w/me. About 2 years ago a friend of mine was in a very similar sitch as you, except that she was pregnant and had a 3yo boy. It was devastating for everyone and I spent hours on the phone w/her night after night. I wish I had known about MB back then, but apparently I gave her some good advice (she also had a great Christian IC) b/c she held on thru it all and he finally moved home about a year ago and he has been sober for 6 mos.

It truly is a miracle. He was also depressed and extremely selfish like your WH and began to fail miserably in life on his own (arrested for driving under influence, fired from job, etc.) Back then my friend asked me what I would do if I were ever in her sitch. I never thought I would actually have to answer that question for real. :-( She and her FWH are a help to us now and I hope that what you and I are going thru will also be used for the good in some way.

Take good care.

Thankyou 24give. I am so glad for you that your H is remorseful and you are seeing a MC. I pray that it works for you both.

WH just rang and asked if we would meet him at the Drs. I said 'I would prefer to go in the one car' He said 'ok, but it wont be long, there are things I need to do this afternoon.'

I said 'ok, what do you need to do?'

He said 'go looking at other bike shops.'

So - yes, he is willing to go to Drs, spend 'lunch' with kids and I but then takes off.

I know he needs time to himself, but we miss him so much, I wish we could have the day together <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> But the day is already half over adn by the time he gets here, we get to the drs, we get into the drs it will probably be dark and we wont get to 'lunch/dinner on the beach.'

But at least he IS coming for part of the time. I should look at that I guess.

You and Neak are both right about if friends are in the same sitch. I just hope none are, but know that to be a fantasy - there is too much of this out there.

Next Sunday is Mothers Day. He has already said that we will all go out somewhere, so Ive gotta look forward to that I guess, cause there's gonna be alot of fog babble between now and then.

We have our MC appointment next Thurs night. The paraphrasing isn't going well. He can't think of things to say, but we are talking - so I guess THAT is something. Will have to see what the MC thinks about the failure of the paraphrasing. He did say it was very plasic and dif to do.

Thanks for your post 24give and *HUGS AND PRAYERS* to you.

J

Well today was - hmmmm - interesting.

He was very stand-offish when he arrived (Im assuming he got some good sex this morning) and we headed over to the docs.

An hr and a half wait in the waiting room and he was still quite quiet. We get in there and did the kids first, then he went downstairts to the chemist to get the flu vaccine and took the kids and I stayed with the Dr.

Well, when I told the Dr he was LIVID to say the least. He asked 'who knows' I said 'everyone' he said 'and he's still WITH her? Chuck him out J you have too high self esteem, you are a smart intelligent woman, why are you putting up with his crap?' Then he said 'it's not depression he's got - its guilt and I dont want to see him, you're my patient today'.

But i begged for him to see him because that was the sole reason we were going over.

So when WH came out he was very touchy feely with me. We took the kids over to McDonalds for tea and whilst they were playing he was trying to make conversation etc, and was v attentive. I was convo back, but quite calm.

Then we got home and I threw the kids in teh bath and started to get lunches ready for tomorrow and he said 'Im going to shoot thru while they're in the bath, Ok?'

I said 'make sure you go and tell them, Im not having htem come out and ask where you are.'

So he did.

Then he came up to me at the sink and said 'see you later darl and gave me a peck' and I said 'ok, bye'

And that was that.

Then the front door shut and I put my head down on the bench and cried <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I dont know what to do. I dont know if I SHOULD go into plan b (which is virtually what Dr was saying, only give him kids on 2nd weekend, dont ring him/text him. Go see a lawyer to show him what he will have to give you.) or whether I should carry on as I am??

I just dont bloody KNOW.

The dr thinks the MC is a waste of money.

Hey Nkay - I know you did the 'chuck out' and it worked - wondering what strategies you used? I am thinking Im heading down that path in the next week or so.

Oh - I wrote him a wee letter last night (think I said that earlier) anyway, I gave it to him earlier and said 'its not anything heavy, just stuff I would normallys ay to you, but youre not here to say it to.' and as he left he said "I'll read your letter"

SHould I continue to do that?

Anyway - THE RB THAT I NEED...

He wrote this in a text 10mins after he left....

"Sorry for running away tonight but if all 3 were like DS was then that'd send me into I dont know what!"

I wanna write back 'have you run away? I thought you were gone already?' but I think that's too sarcastic?

OMG!Just got this message from him

"you were very quiet after chat with Dr and on way home? U ok? Was he worried about u? He was v quiet with me & just listened & offered small bits of advice & 2 come and see him if and whenever i need it.'

ORCHID - HELP! HELP! What do I say??

Hi Zuj,

I've been reading about everything that's happening to you, and have been sad for you and angry for you.

What your doctor has said makes so much sense it's scary.

If you finally go to Plan B. It'll feel like it's going to kill you. BUT IT WON'T.

Best of luck,

I.A.D

Hi Zuj, I'm no use with reverse babble so hopefully Orchid will come along soon to help you out. Just want you to know I am following your situation but don't always have advice. I hate the way he's playing this - calling you as soon as he's out of her sight and vice versa. He doesn't want to let go of you - that's obvious - but he is totally addicted to OW at the moment. With any luck she'll get her visa and decide she's too young to get caught up in all this crap. I have a feeling it will be her making the decisions, not him.

As for the motorbike - how can he afford it? It's ok for him to get a bike but not for the family to have a holiday? Definitely got HUTAS. Why don't you spend the money before he does? Don't know if that's very MB but the motorbike will be used for OW and him to ride off into the sunset. I'd try and put a stop to it. TT

Hi TT,
Thanks mate.
I agree re the addicted to OW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Regarding the motorbike - dont get me started on that. He knows we dont have the money atm - more of his fantasy. And it's not just a little 250cc he's thinking about either!

Thanks IAD - Plan B is such a scary thought. The thought of gambling it all hurts so much.

Why doesn't he love me like he used to. He adored me, he really did. And I just took all of that for granted cause he was always there, has always been there. To not have that person even physically TOUCH you anymore, after they couldn't keep their hands off you (and I dont mean just sexually) is something that truly frightens me.

Well, it's Sunday night (actually Monday morning) and I have 3 children to drop in 3 different places by myself in the morning <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> If WH was here he would be taking one of the girls but as he's not I have to leave at least half an hour earlier to get to all of the drop offs and get myself to work on time.

Im so tired. Im just so tired

Good to have the Doc on your side.

Now as to plan B. It's got t/b when U R ready for it. Your mind and heart needs t/b in sync. You must be comfortable with your plan A improvements for you. You should have your personal boundaries identified and it is recommended your secure your family's finances (WS' like to spend $$ on the A - selfish toys,hobbies and the OP).

Can you schedule a call to Steve Harley @ MB?

Btw, let him wonder about your visit with the Doc. A type of response c/b:

WS: "you were very quiet after chat with Dr and on way home? U ok? Was he worried about u? He was v quiet with me & just listened & offered small bits of advice & 2 come and see him if and whenever i need it.'

BS: The doc is worried about me also. I will need to visit him later.

NOTE: No more info - re: it is good a WS spends time worrying.....less time for the WS to spend on the A.


Take care,
L.

He's backing away again....

He is supposed to be here this afternoon because of my dance teaching. Wrote to me to say he cant make it.

He can't take DS to preschool tomorrow morn but can pick up DD from dancing.

He then wrote about what he has for work the rest of the week - busy busy busy.

We're supposed to have MC on Thursday night. I hope he remembers. I don't even know if he will ring me tonight. We haven't done the paraphrasing for a couple of days, even tho I have tried. He says he can't think of things to say - good or bad.

I had a bad bad bad night and couldn't get up for work. Kids and I stayed home. Bad I know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

They are currently playing out the back. I crawled out of bed at midday. Poor DD7 made the other 2 breakfast, the darling girl. Ive now spent the last hour trying to find the sink and bench! lol.

Why is he doing this to me? Why is he still there with her? How can he do this to his children?

OH I wish I could fast forward time - usually time goes way too fast as it is, but I just can't bare this agony. At least if time was fastforwarded I would be better - one way or the other.

I was very bad this morning and sent him very needy texts. He hasn't responded with an ounce of emotion to any message today.

I am so scared he has given up on 'us'.

I am back to where I was a week, a fortnight, 3 weeks ago. Why is it 2 steps forward 3 steps backwards.

My DD said to me this morning 'when is mothers day?' I said 'this Sunday'. She said 'well mummy, Im going to make you breakfast....... and Im going to make it for daddy too.' and then she burst into tears and hugged me and wouldnt let go for 5 mins.

Why can't we understand/fathom how they could possibly want to lose/give up all that they have here? How could he change so quickly about his responsibilities to his children, even if he felt that way towards me - of which I had no idea.

Why did SHE have to come on the scene. She has no idea what she has done.

Juz, you must get yourself and the kids ready for work/school. Routine will help you function. If this is starting to destroy you then you must soon remove yourself from his seedy world.

As and when you do, remember it is not the end. He NEEDS his J fix and so far you are available for him. He will miss you more than he knows. You are just as addicted to the phone/text thing as him and it will be hard. But start preparing yourself for a complete break from him. He is playing a wicked game at the moment - damaging you and the children emotionally whilst he gets a cheap thrill. She is NOT the love of his life. You are. I reckon three months of this crap max. Then shut him out. Let him see how it feels to potentially lose the most important person in his life.
He's a bloody fool. I'm so sad for you because he really has changed everything. You might not realise it yet, but you now pull the strings. He WILL want back in but you might want nothing more to do with him. Really hope he wakes up soon. God bless. TT

Thanks TT - I needed that slap across the face! My sister said the same thing to me today.

I really hope he wakes up soon too cause this spiral is killing me. I WILL get myself up and ready for work tomorrow, I will get the kids to school. It'll kill me - but I'll do it.

I had to tell a few more people tonight, at dancing. The weight loss is just too obvious. They were joking about 'hey, tell us your secret!' and I said 'sure, have your husband walk out on you on a little MLC that'll do it everytime!'

Well it shut them up! LOL!

Thanks for writing TT - Its nice to have you out there.

Hugs

Ok- so Im more hurt. He said he'd ring tonight, and he hasn't. It's like a stupid childhood romance for godsake.

but it still hurts.

"Ive had a rough day but I'll call you tonight when u finish teaching"

Still waiting...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

If it rings, don't be available. Tomorrow, don't be available, either.

Plan A does not mean that you have to stir the chaos with your body every second of every day. Take enough mini-vacations from the mess to keep your strength up until you are ready for Plan B. Make him wonder a bit about you, too.

Again, please do not take what he does so personally. Everything he does comes straight from his little donkey heart, and is merely an indicator of who and what he is right now. It does not reflect on you.

Use this time to study up not only on A-busting, but on what you want and need out of recovery. I predict you will not have a whole lot of time during Plan B to do this, so start getting ready now.

Could you make time to take the kids to the park this afternoon? Get out in the fresh air for a few minutes. Push them on the swings. It will be good for them, too.

HE'S HAD A ROUGH DAY - don't you love it? I wish he'd stop whinging about how bad he feels and how rough his life is, blah blah blah. I don't buy it. It is self-inflicted misery. I'm not pretending it's easy to juggle two lives but I hate the denial of any happiness in his life. My WH was EXACTLY the same. They think they are Oscar Wilde - it's all such tragedy.

Zuj, I hope tomorrow you can face the day. The kids need one parent who they can depend upon. TT

Well it's morning - no phone call or text message all night. I do know my sister sent him a text last night that abused him, so that may have something to do with not hearing from him. He may have been 'too low'.

He wrote to her and started it with 'hey P it's your maybe, possibly x BIL here, im worrieda about your sister blah blah blah'

My sis wrote back and said 'frankly Im sick of you both only thinking of yourselves, I love you M but your children are turning into ferrals and my parents are too old to have the responsibility of 3 more children. Leave your Ho and get back to your wife where you belong'

So - umm - yeah - that could be why I didnt hear from him!!!

Neak - where do I study up on what I want/need out of recovery. I have told him, in letters, texts and in person that the first step is broken contact with her.

I just wish he'd ring the damn IC. He still hasn't done it. Talks about it - but doesnt do it.

His work does know, I dont know if he 'boss' knows - I dont know his boss. He just told me that most of the office knows about it.

Hard not to take it so personally Neak, but I do know what you mean.

And yes TT - poor dear - HE has had a rough day. I too am so cranky that he has inflicted this on all of us yet he is still so miserable. I wrote something similar in a text to him yesterday morning. That we are both so miserable in this situation and aren't able to give solace to each other.

There is so much that i write in the texts but I dont know if he just skims them and deletes or if he fog-alien brain can't interpret them atm or if they do strike a chord (hence why he wrote to my sister yesterday after my v needy texts yesterday morning)

Anyway - must shower and GET READY FOR WORK.. hoo hum

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Zuj,

Sorry to be out of touch. We were away for weekend. Trying to spend more leisure time together.

I do feel that my plan B is what made him see OW in a less than favorable light and see how much he missed me. When I realized that he was playing games and not ready to come home, I told him that he needed to be honest with himself before he could be honest with anyone else. And I went underground. I didn't call him, no messages, NC. It was the hardest thing I ever did and I had to fight the urge to call him a 100 times a day. I knew where OW lived and had to force myself not to get in the car and go over there. I slept little but ate more healthy and exercised more. I made a point to make dates with my girlfriends and keep myself busy.

The change came about when I began to feel stronger which could only have come with NC. Not talking to him made me feel stronger. (Although very sad) I was going through withdrawal just as he went through when he finally left OW. I spoke with him after almost 3 weeks and basically said I felt that he thought he could just come back whenever and I would be there waiting. I told him that I valued our M and that I was willing to work on the M with conditions but that this was not an offer that would be on the table forever. I was unemotional and matter of fact with him. I then said simply, "I love you and want you to come home but I get stronger every day". I must have been convincing because he told OW that night that he was going home to his W. She delayed his return by a day by claiming her life was over during which he went to a friend's house who told him "go home to your wife".

I understand your feeling about his indifference and that he may have had good sex that morning. These HO's are desparate to hang on to our men and will do whatever it takes to convince them. They will lie, cry, rant and rave. They have listened when our husbands complain about us which we know is a part of M but they will highlight these complaints over and over to make us look less appealing. When she is the only voice he is listening to and you are not reciprocating, he will realize that she is manipulating him. Take the high road and sit back and let him come to the conclusion himself. When you speak to him which should be only occasionally, continue with the RB and make sure he knows you love him but you are doing fine. NC is not a punishment but a necessary survival tactic. At some point you have to get off the roller coaster or you will get horribly ill.

Hang in there! I agree that your M is far from over!

Nkay

Thanks Nkay for that insight.

After what has happened today I think really really think it's time I went dark.

I got this msg this morning....
"Ive figured out one thing. The past 12 months maybe longer Ive been desperately lonely. That's even with kids, family and friends about. V V lonely. Doesn't help you but I finally been able to put my finger on something. There are others, not sure what, but that def one thing. Came to me wandering city over lunch break today.'

I wrote back and said through my response 'did my cards and letters make you less lonely'

His response -

"The cards and letters tell me things I already know. I know this has been the biggest kick in the guts for you. For that I'm terribly terribly sorry. But they have been making me feel v pressured. I know that's not your intention. But the smallest things atm feel like the world constantly on my shoulders. I'll call u when I can ok? I know what you mean by the cards etc but it still feels like pressure. Same as when DS screamed and didn't want me2 leave. Never did I feel so alone! But walking back inside I'd have crumbled! When i got back to the city R thought I looked suicidal. She was considering calling u she was so worried but i talked her out of it. I went and had a v hot bath and a beer and settled down a bit!'

And the finaly response -
"I'm a different person when Im with R for sure but she does ask me regularly if Im ok. She's always encouraging me to come c u guys and ring, so if I dont call or visit it's def not her putting pressure on me to stay away. Quite the opposite. I have really good days with R just like I do with u and kids. She really isn't the evil person every1 says. Like u, she gives me all the space I need when I need it (the opp of what he said above - note!) I think it's just easier in the city because I can just get up and go for a walk if I need 2 and I do need it quite a lot. HOpe this makes a bit of sense? I'll call when walking up to X from meeting."

So, I think I'd am going to have to get my Plan B letter written NOW ([censored] - I haven't got time!) and tonight, when he drops DD and DS off, hope that he stays for at least a few mins (last week he skipped through before I had a chance to talk to him) and I will tell him that I love him very very much, that I want to still be married to him - but he knows all of this, he has only to see that in my letters. But, for a while, I absolve him from all responsibilities - he can go away and 'think' and not feel pressured and I will do everything with the kids and not contact him unless it is an emergency.

I do think I need to do this v soon because, apart from the above messages I am starting to get so worn down I dont know how much longer I can handle it. He is obviously very very screwed up and until he goes to see an IC and sorts some of his issues out I dont think I can handle anything anymore.

I will quickly go to plan b site and see if I can adjust a letter from there...

Dearest M,

This is one of the hardest letters I’ve ever written. It is with sobbing tears that I sit here and put my thoughts and feelings to paper. It is truly sad what has happened to our marriage and to us. The path that I must take now is not one of choice but one of self-preservation. Let me explain.

I would first like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the demise of our marriage. I have made many mistakes in the past that can not be changed. What I have been able to do is recognize those errors in judgment and have learned from them so that I can take steps to ensure that they will not occur again. I was selfishly caught up in myself, and my whirlwind of a life and with my selfishness and foolishness I helped create a void in our marriage that helped allow this affair to happen. I now clearly see many of those things I was lacking in. I just didn’t understand how important it was to us.

I did not understand what it took to have a successful and fulfilling relationship, or how to meet your needs; especially when you were feeling so terribly alone. I can not sit here today and say that I know all that I need to know about relationships but I can honestly say that I have learned a lot. I want to learn even more about how to be a supportive and loving partner. The type of woman that I hope you would be proud to call your wife; the same pride I felt so many times when I called you my husband.

We had many more good times over the past 15 years than bad times. From travelling all around Tasmania at exactly this time 10 years ago, to travelling all around the world, all the Christmases & Birthdays. Raising three beautiful children, and losing one, looking for a house, our first new car together. Struggling through all the bad financial times and always realizing that even though we didn't have a lot of money we had each other through it all to rely on. Being able to do all those things for you meant everything to me.

Since the 19th March and especially since that awful Thursday night at the soccer, I’ve been trying to give you hope for the marriage by learning how to be a better wife to you; to give you hope that you could return to a marriage that you wanted, and for us to build our family together. But the past few months have been the most difficult time of my life. The pain and emptiness that I endure on a daily basis is almost too much to bear. My only saving grace is the memory of the love we once shared, of all the good times we have spent together, your extraordinary qualities that led me to want to spend my life with you and thoughts of us being together, someday happy again. Unfortunately, I now find those thoughts and feelings eroding away. Before I lose any more of these thoughts and feelings of what was once us, I must take some drastic steps.

Darling M, I am still willing to do whatever it takes to correct the mistakes that we have made in the past and make our marriage stronger and closer than we ever thought possible. With all of my heart, I would like to build a new marriage with you. One in which we both feel loved, safe, cherished and honoured. I simply can not continue my efforts to rebuild our marriage while you are still involved with R. It has become too painful. We can only rebuild our marriage together when you completely end your relationship with R.

Until that point, I feel I must break off all contact with you. I will avoid seeing you or talking to you or communicating with you in any way. Whilst you try and sort out what is going through your head. I do not wish for your bond with the children to suffer and I will be as flexible as possible with visitation, but I must ask that you not have contact with me during pick up and drop off times. I would also like any regular communications between us to be handled through a mutual friend or relative of your choice. If you have any emergency matters, you may call or email me.

I hope that you understand that I am not doing this to hurt you or punish you but to protect my feelings for you. I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know the torturous pain and suffering I have endured because of your relationship with R. I simply cannot be in contact with you any longer, knowing that you and she are together. This separation is a necessity to preserve my love for you and to avoid losing any more of the things we have shared together, and to give our marriage the best chance for recovery!

I will be willing to discuss our future together as soon as you are willing to permanently separate from R and are willing to construct a plan to ensure a total separation. Until that time I will continue to pray for our family and us.

In my mind I will keep the vision of a happy and loving family where our needs are being met and of a relationship that no others could come between. I know it can happen! I still love you today; I just can not be with you or help you as long as you are still involved with R.

I love you so many ways. As my best friend, my boyfriend, my lover, my husband, my soulmate and the father of my children. I still love you today, As always.

I Love you , oooooo
Your loving wife,

U know what is sick? The fact that he writes you and the OW r treating him the same. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> What a line of croc.

IMHO, you give him his line and watch what he does with it. The OW will then begin to reel him in and his world of freedom will begin to crumble.

Your plan B efforts will show you don't want a WS in your life. You want your H back. The OW only wants a WS in her life, NOT your H. This means there is NO WAY u and the OW are alike. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

L.

I know Orchid. It makes me sick to the stomach that he put us in the same sentence <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I don't know that I WILL give it to him tonight, I would like more feedback from wiser folk than I. I will see how it is tonight when he drops the kids off.

I may wait until Mother's Day....

At least Ive started drafting one now.

Oh, I really feel SICK you know.

Keep these points in mind:

1. Who r u writing the letter to? WS or H? Different characters require different letters. Don't mix up the 2. That sends a very confusing message.

2. What is your intent of the letter? To apologize? To let him know your boundaries? Don't send mixed messages.

NOTE: Some apology is legit but too much gives ammo to the enemy.

Recommendation, keep it short and sweet..... don't be over dramtic but don't spend 1/2 your letter telling him you love him and are sorry for causing the A.

1 or 2 sentences on that subject, a paragraph or 2 about how disappointed u r in his current choices and then a couple of paragraphs outlining your boundary with plan B instructions.

At first I started out with a looong letter. It got bashed on MB. LOL!! I started thinking and it took a while but later I realized, the REAL boundary was NOT to have the OW in MY LIFE. If that meant losing the WS....big deal. Didn't do well with a WS in my life anyways. Much rather have my H back. So if H wasn't coming back. WS wasn't that big of a loss.

Let me tell you, when that message hit the WS between the eyes.....he saw stars. LOL!!! Then he saw the light. OW showed her true colors and it was evil.

All the fog started to melt away. The OW shriveled up like the wicked witch in the Wizard of Oz.

My life went back into my control. The WS was still on the lose but was no longer my worry. I could look him in the eye and tell him to leave w/o guilt.

My mind and heart were in sync and there was no stopping me then and now. 1 boundary. That's all it took.

Best to write the letter, sit on it for a few days or so, then read it again and revise as needed. U will know when it is ready. Your clear mind and calm heart will allow to say what is needed and protect yourself from his hurtful babble.

IMHO,
L.

OHHH MYYYYYY GODDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I have gone DARK.

I had to do it. I had to.

He dropped the kids after dancing and then he shot through before I finished teaching. He msged me and said 'sorry, I just can't face you, ring me' So when I came in, I did. He said some things about how he was so upset putting the kids to bed cause they both asked when he was coming home and that they were missing him and that he couldn't stand to see me, he was too gutless.

So I said to him, could you please pull over the car, I need to read you something. He was in a tunnel at that point so said, I'll ring you back in 5.

I had 5 mins to compose myself. Not good - I was a blubbing mess.

I read him my letter........

By a quarter of the way through he was a blubbering mess.

At the end he's was saying 'oh no oh no oh no, Im so sorry, Oh Im so sorry'.

We just stayed on the phone. He said 'this battery is dying, I wont have hung up on you, Im not hanging up on you.'

He said 'so is this it, now, NOOOOOOOOOOO!'

I said 'this is it Mark, this has to be it, I can't continue this way, you see that don't you. You know Im not doing this to hurt you, that I love you.'

Finally, after about 20more minutes of us just sobbing to each other on the phone it cut out...

And you know what. As much as I was/am a mess and I rang my sister, my friend, my mum straight away and was blubbering etc.

I actually feel like a weigh has lifted off my shoulders.

For the FIRST TIME in 6 weeks I AM IN CONTROL OF MY FEELINGS.

I can't believe it, for the first time in 6 weeks I thought 'oh, i have to make a list of all the things I need to do tomorrow.'

My friend msged him to make sure that he got back to the city safely, because it was wrong of me to make him pull over to do it - and I was worried about the rest of his drive. He made it safely but not happy was his response to my friend.

So my friends here - you need to help me be strong.

He was very upset about the children, and I said to him 'DDONT U SEE THAT IS WHAT IT WOULD BE?? FORTNIGHTLY VISITATION ON WEEKEND? INVITATIONS TO BIRTHDAY PARTIES? THAT IS WHAT IT WILL BE IF THIS HAPPENS" and he was crying 'I know I know I know'

He kept saying "im so sorry, what have I done".

So now - to stay dark....and pray and pray and pray.

Wow, hon, wow! At least I'm not the only one who plunges precipitously into things. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How gloriously dramatic, and I mean that in a good way. You may be assured that things are topsy turvy in A-land. Root is trying to comfort him, half annoyed but all pleased that now she finally has him to herself. Not knowing that the end is near.

Well, I was just going to recommend waiting a couple of days to think and make sure everything that might require contact was dealt with ahead of time. Since you cannot do that, I would recommend that you at least pick an intermediary from your own court. Maybe your sister?

For now, just be prepared for him to start calling texting, or whatever to test your boundaries. Be strong, and do not give in!!!

Better start reading fast about recovery, girl, because you don't have much time. Savor every moment of this break and save your strength.

Zuj, Do this Plan B right. Muster every bit of strength in your body and mind and resist the urge to call him or to respond to his calls. Let the kids answer the phone to their daddy; if they are not there ignore it. You must NOT let him back in the house now without your boundaries firmly set in place, otherwise you will begin the hokeykokey of him being in/out/in/out. I've seen it here too many times and it achieves nothing.

I pray this is the kick up the [censored] he needs. He is so needy of you. When he does come back, trust is the big issue. I strongly recommend that you have full access to his mobile phone. My WH used to hide his or delete the call history. When M has nothing to be ashamed of, he won't mind you checking up on him. If he objects, he is still in contact.

Remember, he has to earn your trust. In the meantime, sort out your finances. For a short while, he might think it is cool that he gets to play with OW instead of having his parental duties, but his life will soon seem shallow and pointless without you. Be mysterious and do not be at his beck and call. Let him wonder what Zuj is up to. He's missing you already.

Everytime you feel like calling/texting, post here or call your family for support. Good luck . TT

You just took one huge step towards saving your marriage!

I didn't know of MB 4 years ago, but my IC told me to become "unavailable". Take away the family life. So, I took his housekey & checkbook from him. I started doing his chores, mowing the lawn, picking up dog p<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />p, taking the boys for haircuts...We weren't home when he called. We were at the park, visiting friends, or going for ice cream.

When he found out I took the boys fishing he was soooo hurt! Oh, well!

I decided to do all this after he called one night to cancel a ballgame with the boys. He said he was tired & staying in. I took the boys for ice cream and on the way home, we passed a tattoo parlor. There HE was with his hoochie mama standing on the front steps! I pulled into the parking lot & made quite a scene. I kicked a big ol' dent in his truck & called her some choice names.

I was so ashamed of myself acting that way in front of my sons. I couldn't take the drama anymore. That's when my IC told me to get away from it.

It took him about 3 weeks after that. He showed up at our doorstep at 11:00pm one night crying. He asked if he could come home. We talked all night long. He has been the best H & father since. I have access to his emails & voicemails. I know where he is at all times.

See? IT DOES WORK!!!

Hang in there!

Tatertot

Well, this morning I woke up without the churning in my chest.

It has come back a few times during the day - but nothing like it has been the past few weeks.

My sis talked to me this morning and said how much stronger I sounded, so I pray that I can continue that feeling.

I even left the ph out charging all night - not next to my bed. The first time in 6 weeks I reckon! Sure it ws the first thing i checked this morning, and there was a msg - but it was from my sister.

I wish I could go totally dark and take the kids away for a week. But I can't take DD out of school, or DS out of preschool. I have plenty of sick days, i could have the time off. Perhaps I will need to do this in a week or so if it's getting really hard not to contact him.

In the scheme of things, a week out of school and a holiday is much better for the kids then what our lives could become.

Neak, I will speak to my sis about being an intermediary. She already said last night that she could be one of the 'drop off's'

One thing that DOES worry me now, is that if/when he does take the kids out - root will be with him. That is something I am not happy about, but it probably will happen. I am sure that he wouldn't DARE 'do' anything in front of the kids - but still - the fact that she is there....

Mind you - as has been said before - a full day with the 3 of them might be just what she needs! LOL *eg*

Got stuff done this morning that has needed to be done for the past few weeks but I just haven't been up to it. THe house is a pigsty and Im not up to facing IT today, but give me a couple of days and hopefully that will start sorting itself out too.

Mothers Day will be hard...

Thankyou for your support. It means so much to me. I hope hope hope that it is the shock he needs. What i didn't post last night, was too exhausted and couldnt remember everything was what lead me to finally do it.

Well, there were the points that I said above, about the letters/cards making him feel pressured, about the kids saying goodnight made him pressured,about him being a diff person when he's with root. But the final straw, was when I rang him, sobbing on the phone after he had left and he said he couldn't come home to hug me because it would be worse when he left. And then when I said 'Dont u see you MUST see an IC' and he said 'sometimes yes sometimes no'. WEll - I have learnt in the last 6 weeks that that response means 'no'.

So that was the straw that broke the camels back. That was when I said to him, in a very ragged voice, 'M, I need you to pull over.'

And that is one of my stipulations, not just the total cut off of root but that he must be in counselling, he is very f^>ked up and there is no way he can deal anywhere atm.

Yeah, so, anyway. We'll take a day at a time I guess, but I DO feel stronger, I do. And I hope I have the 'happy' ending of my complete family. I don't think I'll be lucky enough as Nkay and Tatertot that it will only be a few weeks. I think it will be longer than that.

But then again - who knows.

Neak - where do I start reading up on recovery strategies?



Hugs

Quick post, on my way out the door.

How An Affair Should End - Dr. Harley

Restoration

Resentment

Recovery

There are more, but that will give you the basics. Your library may have a copy of Surviving An Affair, which is also good. I'm sure it's other places, too, but in my thread talking about after PBL #2, there is my elongated list of boundaries and extraordinary precautions.

Your WH may be stubborn for a while, but right now he is filled with doubt and wishing he was home safe and not in the middle of this mess that he made.

Glad you are feeling better.

Zuj,

You may be surprised as I was about how quickly it ends with NC. I truly thought my M was over and was trying to sort out my thoughts about moving forward alone when he called and I could feel that he was faltering. That's when I told him how I felt and let him know I wasn't happy about it but I would survive without him.

Believe me, Root will now get a taste of how you felt. She was getting all the sex while you get all the depression and woe is me talk. Both of them existed together with no responsibility. Well, now she can deal with his depression and face the feeling of responsibility for separating a man from his wife and children. The A will no longer be as much fun.

Poor WH - he feels so bad; he feels pressured; he can't handle it. Well, how does he think you feel? Responsibility is a part of life. Especially when you have 3 children. I would not lie for him to your children any longer. Obviously, they can't know all the facts but they are in the same boat as you were. On pins and needles waiting for him to come home. The uncertainty can't be good for them. Maybe if they know he isn't coming home for awhile, they will adjust and will feel a load lifted off their chest as well. As long as they continue to see him and have the stability of you and their home, they will be fine. However, Jus, I am no counselor so please check with the experts. This is just my opinion.

I still think this is encouraging because he sounds devastated to lose contact with you. This should speed up the end of the A.

I agree with Orchid - stay dark - fight the urge to call him or answer his TM; the urge will be overwhelming.

Keep the faith. It will pay off in the end.

God bless you,

Nkay

Yes, tell your children very simply what is wrong. They probably think it is their fault, even if you have said it isn't.

Thankyou Nkay and Neak.

DS heard the front door today when he was playing on the computer, i had put some rubbish out and he called out 'daddy is that you' I said 'no, it's me' he said 'where's daddy' I said 'at work, but he wont be home anymore, for a while'

It hurt to say it.

Then my friend rang me to say that WH msged her today to ask her to be the intermediary. He said something along the lines of 'I need to know about money to live off and when I can see my babies'.

So since then (3 hours ago) I have felt like [censored] again.

And it hasn't even been 24 hours yet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

This is going to be so horribly hard <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Nkay - the urge is already overwhelming. I know I can't but I want to so badly.

Yes Neak, I am going to have to speak to the children tonight. DS said again tonight about missing daddy and when was he coming home because he loved him.

DD said a similar thing this afternoon when I dropped her at ballet.

So, I think that it's time for me to sit down and talk to them. Not fair, but as you say Neak, they may see it as their fault (like i see it as my fault, even though I know it isn't). I am thankful that my youngest DD is too young for any problems, except that after she sees him she walks around for the next few hours asking 'where's dadda'

My darling Mum made dinner and brought it down tonight, and is staying here while I go out and teach at 7pm. Normally I would have the kids, the youngest two in bed before I started teaching, but I haven't had to do that today. Mum bathed them and everything. Isn't she wonderful!

Tonight, when I come in from teaching I have to ring my MIL and tell her what I did last night. I didnt have the strength to deal with her last night, tonight, with mum here I will be better.

No msg from him - he is respecting my request...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

zuj,

I found it best to direct the children so the WS to answer some of the questions. I encouraged my son's freeness of speech (w/in reason of course) and when I felt his father needed to explain his waywardness, I directed my son to his dad, assuring him it was alright to ask his father what was on his young mind.

That direction led my then 6 year old to compose a 4 letter sentence to his father. I asked why the letter and his reply was that he was too embaressed to speak to his dad. I asked him to clarify and he said something to the effect that his dad wasn't being his dad and it embaressed him to see his dad act that way. WOW!!! Out of the mouths of babes. I made sure H heard those words and it did make it, right through the fog. The letter was short but the impact was big. I was very proud of my son having the skill to write such a touching letter.

Mind you all the while the OW was trying to convince the WS that children do better with only 1 parent. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Go figure....only a numbskull nut would fogspeak such nasty thoughts. Good thing that was too much for even the WS to swallow. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

What an awesome mum!

Now don't be letting yourself get bummed because he "respected" your boundary. Soon enough he will be messaging you, and reading between the lines you will correctly read, "Zuj? Are you there? Answer me please! I'm having a really hard time right now because of what you did. (<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) I really really wanted to have both of you fawning over me, adoring me, competing over me, and maybe once in a while you could each rub one of my feet at the same time while I try and decide who gives better massages. And now I can't! WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH"

Ok, now you're done thinking about him for the day. Firmly steer your thoughts somewhere else. What are you going to do with your children, to spice up their lives? I would recommend playing Tornado with them, where you let them whirl around the house picking up their stuff.

I still haven't found a method that works really well, but so far the best results have been from working with one child at a time so they can't escape so easily, then in half hour or so, trade them for the next one. Try to convince them this is a game. (Older children are not fooled, so you are fortunate to have younger ones.)

What nice thing are you going to do after the kids next go to bed? Start planning early so you are not sitting there moping at 9pm.

Baby steps. You are having a much easier time of this than unnamed people that we won't even mention. Which is as it should be.

Thanks Neak, I needed that laugh this morning!

I had a very graphic dream last night that he was in bed with me hugging me, so much so that I woke up thinking he was there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hoping it was an omen that he WISHED he was there and was thinking lots and lots and lots about me at that point too.

I went to bed fairly early last night (for me) 11.30, so have woken fairly refreshed for the first time in a very long time.

DD7 has her cross country race at school today so she is very excited!

I am going out to buy a nice diary.

I have decided that each day I am going to write in it the thoughts and things that happen with the kids, you know, every day stuff like falling over and bumping heads or funny things they say.

So that WHEN he comes home I can give it to him and let him know that he hasn't missed those special things that I would have shared with him.

Must go - gotta get ready for school

hugs

Zuj,

You are doing great. Take this time to get to know yourself. A journal is a great idea. Keep yourself busy and do things you have wanted to do but never got the time. Eat the things you like. It is amazing to find out how much we women arrange our lives around our families like and dislikes. This is your chance to do what you want for a short time.

It will be very hard to resist the urge to call him or see him. Hang in there!

My thoughts are with you.

Nkay

Best wishes and good luck

I think OWomen get a a power surge from the impact (actual or potential) of the a on the w .These 20 somethings are out of the teen dating loop and are regarded by that age group as being rather ancient and past it.

Having a relationship with an older man is a big boost to their self esteem it keeps them feeling young. No matter that their father figure is someone elses daddy.

The less she knows about your state of mind and your intentions the better.She is waiting for you to stack on an emotional scene to make her look like the sane one----------- keep her guessing!!!

I think you are doing all the right things- I am sure it will pay off

And so it has begun.....

My friend, whom he chose to be the intermediary received this msg from him yesterday...

" S, do you mind being the go between for me and J? There's a few things we need 2 sort out? Mothers Day this weekend. I need to get gifts from the kids for J. Also need to organise money matters. I need money to live on but dont wanna leave her and the kids short as well as covering the bills! Also need to organise contact wtih my babies! What a sh!tty mess!"

My friend just wrote back and said 'yes i will.'

Then today she rang me and told me she got this msg.... He is using her like a conduit to me - it's like he thinks she will fwd msgs to me (which she does of course!) and it's almost the same as he msging me. I got SO upset when she read this one out to me, just because 'he doesn't get it'. MY sis thinks its a good thing. She has 'good' feelings. I have learnt to trust her feelings before - but then again - sometimes they are wrong! lol!

This was the msg to S today..

"S, I need to know what's gonna happen on Sunday with Mothers Day? It's v strang not being able to just msg J and just ask? I'm off to BB and the school that she used to visit out there are having a sports carnival! So tiny cause such a small school. Cheers"

??????HUH?????

She got that about 10.30 this morning, but didnt actually read it until after lunch as her phone was in her bag. She didn't respond until about 2.30 this arvo, after she spoke to me. I said to her how I didnt want her to be 'an interpreter' and that is how WH sees her.

She was writing back something along the lines of...

'M, I dont think anything can happen this Sunday, this is from me, I can't ask J about Mothers Day, that's not fair on her. You may have to sit down and organise access visits if this separation continues.'

I just started crying and crying when she rang me and told me. And the thing is, as much as I love her and am glad that WH has chosen her because she is a good friend, she is also very negative about the relationship, as her xh had an affair and she left him straight away (many years ago - no children, together 3 years). So she often says little things, like she did on the phone today about 'I dont know how long it will continue like this while you still pin your hopes on him coming home'. And I was just in no mood to say to her 'he IS going to come home, he IS IS IS.'

Anyway - feeling miserable now and so badly miss him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Zuj,

He can't get to you but will try to use your S. U 2 must be strong.

If u r strong enough to hear the messages and not respond, then fine. It w/b her release valve and she will be yours as the go between. Then it w/b hard for him to blow either of you up since u both have release valves. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He wants her to organize stuff 4 him? Ha! Typical WS style.

Let her lead him on so that when he drops it has a greater impact.

Ex:

Ws: SIL, I need you to get me presents from the kids for J.

SIL: Ok.

WS: Make it nice.

SIL: Ok.

NOTE: SIL does not comply, just says OK. Mother's day comes, no presents for Zuj....you gotta be strong for this. Children will ask their dad....where's our presents for mom? Guess who will get egg on his face? What's he gonna say? I told SIL to get them for me? What a wheeny. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Another example:

WS: I need you to tell Zuj.......

SIL: Ok.

2 days later.....

WS: Did you tell Zuj?

SIL: Tell her what?

WS: TEll her what I said about......

SIL: Oh.

WS: Will you tell her?

SIL Ok.....

....and on it goes.... until one day, he gets it. Plan B!

Now for the legit stuff she needs to tell you and you need to reply but you both need to know what is legit vs an excuse. Reemmber each time he makes contact you have filled enough of his WS need to keep him as a WS.

NOTE: WS' need to feed on the misery of the BS and family.

Last example:

WS: SIL, I need you to help me organize my $$.

SIL: Ok.

WS: When?

SIL: Whenever... but I'm busy right now.

WS: Tomorrow?

SIL: No not tomorrow.

WS: Sunday?

SIL: Maybe.... call me later.

The WS needs to see no one is going to accomodate his schedule.

JMHO,
L.

Thanks Orchid - I just copy and pasted your post to S, to let her know the kind of thing. She doesn't mind being the intermediary she just doesn't quite know what to do - I am sure your post will help her.

THANKS.

Still feeling yucky but chatting on msn with my sis so at least my mind is occupied whilst the kids what the cartoons!

If M is feeling this way about Sunday already - and it' only Thursday, how is he going to feel BY Sunday....

He'll feel like a heel.

Good.

....and they call me mean!?!?!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Btw, let your sister know the objective. It may guide her actions better.

Objective:

1. Don't engage a WS in a convo. It's confusing and gives one a headache.

2. Don't agrue or attempt to reason with a WS. They don't have ears.

3. Take his info and let him leave....if he leaves thinking he's bowled one over you....that's ok. Why? 'Cux we all know that's not true but the WS does not believe anyone but his but.

4. Don't fret. Ws' for the most part, spew and then have to apologize. Be strong enough to stand your ground and don't let him see that he is getting your goat. Give him bull instead. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

5. Like the way you have to turn into the spin to slow the car down.....make the WS think u r on his side just a little, enough for him to let his guard down. When he does, the real H might get a chance to peek out.

6. If your sister can learn to reverse babble, she w/b one powerful allie.


JMHO,
L.

L.

Okay, we're coming up to 2 days of NC and I'm feeling it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

And that's with KNOWING he's contacting friends of mine too.

I found out today that the night I read him my letter he went to the pub and then started msging a friend about how it we were 'very separated' now and he didnt know what to do. She is a good friend of ours and she didnt know what I had done so she thought that HE had decided this. Those texts went back and forth for 2 hours. Then the next day (yesterday) he msged her to apologise for his drunken texts so she rang him (again, not knowing what I had done, i didnt speak to her until today and explain, and thats when I foudn all this out). So when she rang him she said 'so this is it, it's final' and he said '....no' so she said 'well the break is necessary then, but it wont work whilst you're still living with the OW.' and he said 'I know, Im just taking it day by day atm' (babble babble)

This is so damn hard <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I mean I DONT want what I had - god, I couldn't cope with that, I know it, but the withdrawral is so shocking.

Sorry to ramble, no-one to talk to atm and so here I am to chat to you all!

Yes Neak, he WILL feel like a heel! But not enough of one to de-fog I reckon!

How long was AJ in plan B?

Thanks orchid for those points, will pass them on

zuj

zuj, from reading your post i am very hopeful for your situation, stay very very dark. I know its very very hard for you right now. But i believe with all of my heart, that in your situation it will be oh so worth it.

He cant stand it not hearing from you, he is getting more and more miserable, and when he will finally hit bottom, he will know what to do.

Whatever you do, dont contact him, dont break down and message him or write him. Then you will be back to square one. Stay strong, we are all here with you. You are doing a great job, stay focused on the goal, and it will give you the strength to keep staying in Plan B and staying dark.

sending you a big hug

D.

Man oh man oh man

Just got a ph call from his brother. His bro tried to talk to him today, Wh ended up hanging up on him because BIL said 'for gods sake just ring mum and say hello'

Anyway BIL is going to ring the OW tomorrow at work and say 'look, i dont know who you are, or if you realise what you have done, but you come over here from another country and not only do you break up a family with children, but I nnow can't talk to my own brother - he is changed since you came into our lives. Do you realise what you have done.'

My poor BIL was crying on the phone to me he said 'we are so here for you J, we think of you every single day and are praying for you.'

So - EOTR - how right you are about him getting more and more miserable!

Time for everyone else to put more pressure on and for me to be DARK DARK DARK.

HUGS AND THANKS

Juz, do you think he has read MB at all? I am amazed how quickly he has stopped contacting you and is using an intermediary. It's like he knows you're doing Plan B!

Stay dark, keep busy, don't drink too much! I can't tell you how much this reminds me of my WH when he started with OW. He also didn't contact his family because he was ashamed of himself and didn't like their judgment. In fact he just flew to England for the first time in nearly two years. Of course, everyone had plenty of time and sympathy for him now because he's got kidney failure. That has taken over our marital situation.

STAY DAAARRRRKKK. TT

Hi TT,
I don't think he is reading MB, mind you, I was worried about that a few weeks ago because I forgot to clear the 'history' and he could have checked that.

I dont think has contacted me yet because remember, my going dark was a very very very dramatic emotional conversation. I was hysterical, as was he. It was truly appalling. I was in sobbing tears explaining to him that I COULD NOT continue this way, with the constant contact and that although I would miss him terribly, I needed to break all contact with him so that I can get well, and get the kids well again.

And that although I would probably want to call him a million times a day, I wont be able to because it's not fair on me - and it's not fair on the kids and if he was feeling so much pressure with the kids and with me then he needed no contact too.

I then emailed him the letter so that he would ahve a copy, because I didnt know how much he would remember of our conversation - it was so upsetting and draining.

But - he could well be reading MB....

Im not drinking at all! LOL! I only drink recreationally and haven't been out to do that - no - tell a lie - had half a glass of wine when I went out with M on FRiday night - he finished the carafe.

He is the one that is drinking terribly.

I hope that my WH doesn't take as long as yours has to wake up though TT - I may be like you by then, and not sure I want him back at all..

Hugs...

Think how baaaaaad this is for him. You miss him, yes, but you have all of us. *modest blush* HE only has her.....and a bottle of chocolate. Now who would you say is better off???

But seriously, the more miserable he is, the easier it will be for your H to poke his head out through the fog, maybe for a moment at first, then longer periods of time as he starts getting so sick of chocolate.

AJ never experienced the 'joys' of Plan B. The closest he got was about 24 hours without me the first time around. The second time I didn't bother leaving dramatically to be out of the way while he packed; I just confronted him hard and after 4 hours of pleading agreed to put Plan B on hold but with my finger still on the button. But that reaction is very rare. Maybe some of the old-timers have seen it before, but I had not, which is why it surprised me so much.

I doubt your Plan B will be very long. He likes your cake too much, and I bet hers is already starting to taste like sawdust.

Keep being strong for your kids - you are right on track.

Morning Zuj - Day 3. Thinking of you. TT

{{{TT}}} thanks! and {{{{NEAK}}}} thanks!

Day 3 - I know - can u believe it!

After I 'wrote' last night re the BIL phone call I rang my friend S to let her know what had happened and she said 'well, have I got a doozy for you' she then sent me thru this.....

"Thanks S, Could u please tell j to tell s to go take a running leap into whatever. He has managed to turn my problem into his - surprise surprise! I asked him to do one thing for me and he won't. I helped both him and my mother through years of ****** and neither of them remembers any of it now because it suits them. So as far as im concerned they can both bo to ******! Sorry S but I'd send to Juz but am respecting her wishes! Ur a good friend and I know you'll be there for jduring this v difficult time in all of our lives! Love M"


She couldn't believe it because when I rang her she had just read my email that I had cut and pasted from Orchid about what he was likely to do!!! She said "OMG It's TEXTBOOK!"

Well, she didn't respond to him, as much as she wanted to write back and say 'I am NOT your relay service M!' She wasn't even going to tell me, except for my phone call.

So, I was pretty worked up last night, but a friend came over for coffee and i spoke to another on the phone so I calmed myself down. Went to bed at 10.30 and slept until 5.30, when I woke with a start and thought "OMG TT is right - he is reading the boards, thats how he knows about BIL'


For 2 hours I couldn't sleep thinking "Oh no - Im going to have to go dark on MB as well, how will I cope with that, I need you guys.'

So,at a decent hour I msged S and asked what time WH msged her thru with the 'doozy' she said '5.36pm' "PHEW" I thought - that is 2 hours earlier than when BIL even rang me, and 2.5hrs earlier than when I posted about it on here - so he can't have read it.

So - yes WH is now thinking he can tell me 'things' through S.

Then this morning the credit card people called wanting him, I knew the account was o/d. I gave his mobile number. 5 mins later the woman rang back and said 'your husband said it would be best to speak to you about payment of this'.

I said 'ok, not a problem, what is the amount due, ok, will be paid Monday'.

I then msged S later and said 'can u tell M that I will be paying $x off the cc on Monday' she wrote back and said 'he just msged me to ask if you could pay them.'

I said 'good! That means that it sounds like Im only answering him, rather than initiating contact - however benign.' S said 'will do,'

So the youngest 2 and I have been out at playgroup this morning and the mums there, who Ive barely seen the past 6 weeks looked at me and said 'OMG the weight is falling off you - what are you doing?' I said 'thats what happens when your husband walks out on you in a MLC!' so I got lots of 'venting' done there, which is always nice - as you know! lol!

Sad though - we played outside today and the little 3 and 4 year old boys were playing in the cricket nets and I thought 'oh, M would be SOOO proud of DS the way he was playing cricket' but - couldnt say it could I! So, that's something to write in the journal tonight.

DD has her school dance tonight, she is v excited. She said to me in the car this morning bout Mothers Day and how she only had the present she made at school cause Daddy hadn't taken them shopping yet. I said 'your present from school is wonderful darling - that is fine! Daddy wont be taking you shopping this year, daddy doesn't live at home anymore.'

"YES HE DOES" she wailed. So we had a talk about how daddy's head is sick atm and that it wasn't her fault or any of our faults but he wants to live with someone else for a while at least. And that she can go and visit the counsellor at school if she is sad and maybe she would like to write a letter to daddy if that would make her feel better. And she said 'yes I would'

So I hope she is ok at school today.

Now - Boy is sitting watching Peter Pan. Gonna put the Wee One down for a nap and then mop this filthy kitchen floor!!

TTFN

x0x0

I just came REALLY close to ringing him.

DS4 is v v v sad this afternoon. And he just keeps saying 'I want my daddy, I want Daddy, I dont want daddy to be at work anymore.'

It just breaks my heart.

ITS NOT FAIR

I am feeling V lonely and needy atm.

Its Friday afternoon on a grey ole day and for some reason (no doubt to do with the above post and the fact that DD7 was in foul mood when she got home from school and dd20months is being a pain in the neck atm) I am just feeling really really really needy and really really missing him.

And I know he will just go out and get sh!tfaced tonight and try to forget about us here.

Pity party here at home.

I think Im also down cause I read peachblossoms thread about how she has been plan b since xmas. OMG - that is 5 months - OMG - I dont know how to do that. I dont want to even IMAGINE that I will still be doing this 5 months down the track.

I know everyone sitches are different but I just keep thinking that everything happened so quickly with my WH. He only met the OW a few weeks before he started sleeping with her, he told me he wanted a 'trial separation' a few weeks after sleeping with her and now he has been living with her for 6 weeks. Although still coming home a little bit.

But it all feels so useless atm. I am back in the state of shock that I was when it all began, I just can't believe this has happened to us. Our 'happy' family is gone, immediate family and extended family. its all so sad.

My darling son is sitting on my knee at this very moment telling me how much he loves me. And I know he wants to tell his daddy that too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I think Im so down because this will be the first weekend that we won't see him. I know it will be hard on him too - but to know that last Friday night I was meeting him in the city and thinking 'maybe' things were starting to get through the fog, to now - being in plan b - it's such a change.

Ok - Im sorry for the pity party....

It pained me to no end as well, to see the childrens pain and there was nothing i could do about it. My children are older and by now they have detached themselves from their father and it will be a tough road for him to reconnect with the kids, should he ever come back.

For smaller kids this is much harder, they dont understand, they just want it back how it was. I have tried to get my husband to be there more for the kids, when they were in deep pain over their father, it didnt do anything. We ended up in a huge argument, he said he would be with them more, if he could bring OW along with him. ~rolls eyes~ and it was because i am here, that he cant. So it was my fault...

I quit trying to make him see the light about his kids then, i tried to keep the kids positve about their dad, they have talked to him about their feelings over the past months, once he said it was me putting it all in their heads. But it was their feelings, i didnt say anything, if anything i tried to make excuses for WH to the kids, so they would be understanding and patient. By now they have shut down, there was and is nothing i can do about that.

Only he can change that. It hurt like ****** to see the kids suffer through all of this. The only thing we can do is be there for them.

Thanks EOTR. I just needed to know I wasn't alone here.

It's so awful that we are the ones that bare the brunt of their pain as well and the WH doesn't see it.

He told me he feels 'pressured' when the children say how they miss him. Well mate - they are YOUR CHILDREN - YOUR PRECIOUS BABIES.

Hugs

My daughter told him once (she is 15), dad you can have OW for the rest of your life. You will only have us for a few more years (her brother will be 18 this year and is already planning on moving together with his gf then). He reacted angry at this... then she told him, you are choosing her over us, and she was crying at the time.

His reaction was just anger, and then promises that he will spend more time with her, which of course never happened, as a matter of fact, he hardly ever shows up anymore, blames his health for it, saying when he feels better he will come by more. That was months ago, once he gets over one thing healthwise, then its another thing.

So they have given up, its very sad. One day our Husbands will wake up, and it will hurt them very badly to face their children.

Yep, they are his children... children that he claims he loves so much, actions speak louder than words.

The kids are really the ones that are in the middle of all of this, but then a WS only sees their own feelings and they should be understood and validated... even from their children. I used to get angry inside from all of this, now i just feel sadness.. for the kids and him as well.. when he wakes up. I know it will tear him apart...

Yep - I know. My WH says in texts to our intermediary about how he has to work out when he can see his babies. But one of the reasons I went Plan B was because he said about how 'pressured' he feels when the kids ask him when he is coming home and how much they miss him.

Well he can't have both - can he!

And he tells me last week that 'yes he wants to come home' but 'no he doesn't want to come home'

GRRRR - Bloody wake up and see what you are losing!!!!!!!

well, i have been in both shoes WS (online EA) and BS now, and i didnt wake up until i was faced with loosing it all. And from where i stand now, i have lost it all, but i am making amends with my children, i never left them behind, but i did neglect them when i was in my EA. And that alone was very painful to face, i have had many talks with my children and i know it will take time to heal the feeling of emotional neglect that they had.

My husband hasnt said in a long time that he wants to come home or not, i just get an "i dont know yet" or "i dont know what the future brings" out of him. So i am letting go completely, as soon as he gets me those planetickets to get out of here, not sure if he is stalling or if he really is in that deep of a money bind. He said a month last time we talked... well.. been about 1 1/2 weeks. Guess i'll see.

I read somewhere it sometimes takes a crises to get them out of their crises. I guess that would be that wake-up call. Praying for you that it hits him hard very soon.

From what you been writing, it seems to eat at him already, but it has to really sink in... really hit him square in the face, then he has a decision to make.. a permanent one.

I get the 'I dont know yet' and the 'Im taking it one day at a time' as well. But last week, on our anniversary he did say 'YES, I DO want to come home, but I just can't.'

So who the F knows!!

I hope, like you, he wakes up when he realises just how much is at stake. It sounded like it when i was reading out my letter to him, his reaction etc.

But - back into the fog...... or maybe not.....

dunno dunno dunno.

He certainly IS in a crisis, and yes, I know it IS eating at him - but then again - so is she, and she's covered in chocolate! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Keep that WS off balanced. That is what is good for you and your H.

L.

Zuj - just a quickie as I've got to go out.

My WH NEVER called the children once he left. It made him feel bad and guilty so it was easier to pretend they didn't exist. He has permanently damaged his relationship with them - they don't hug and kiss him anymore and really don't talk much together. Your kids are younger so that shouldn;t be a problem. I'm not sure how Plan B works with the children - perhaps they should be allowed to call him each evening before they go to bed?? Or vice versa. Doesn't mean you have to talk to him.

The things in life that matter the most really pale into insignificance when people have affairs. I suppose if it didn't happen that way, they wouldn't be able to detach so easily. Does M not realise that the fact he feels so torn and troubled by all of this is because it is WRONG. Simple.

If I lived near you, I'd pop over with a bottle of wine and watch a stupid movie! My brother is in Sydney at the moment. Did I tell you that already? Must go. TT

TT - Hugs! Would love the wine and movie! and the company! LOL!

M has not rung the kids since he left either. There was that time that I said 'I will get the kids to ring you before they go to bed' he did that night - but that is the only night in this whole long damn time that he did it.

Hope your brother is enjoying Sydney - no doubt he'll go up to the X as it's one of the touristy spots to visit! He might see WH there wallowing in a pub! LOL!

Actually tomorrow night is the FA cup final, isn't it? WH will def be in a pub tomorrow night - I was supposed to be there with him..

It is so sad that your chn dont have that relationship with their dad. So v v sad.

Yep Orchid - I know...

Just gotta stay strong to do it!

Gotta gotta gotta

Dear zuj,
I don't know you but I've been reading your post and lurking.
I'm so sorry. It's so bloody hard. I have found though that there is a wierd sense of peace and calm once WH has gone. (Interspersed with manic house cleaning as well) but nevertheless, that knot in the stomach, awful churning feeling goes.
Is it the same with you? Obviously I can make that awful feeling come back, I just need to start thinking about WH and OW together
- a bit like picking an old wound to see if it still hurts -
but it is easier without him. At least I can half relax.
The kid stuff is heartbreaking. I'm sure that some of the stuff WH's do with regards to "ignoring" kids is mixed up with guilt, and fear of really facing what they have done. If they don't have to see it, then they don't have to face it.
Keep going, you are doing really well. Your friends sound great, coming round to support you when you're on the verge of calling him. Please try not to call. Remember that every tiny crumb you give him, (calling, emailing, touching, whatever) fills in the gaps that OW can't and therefore prolongs the whole A sitch as he is "full up" with attention from both of you. He will only be able to see how flawed and holey the A is with OW when she is all that he has. She will dig her own grave, he will fall into it and then if he has any guts will crawl home to you.
Kate xxx

Zuj,
Just gone back and read some more.
Dartmouth? I'm from England and Dartmouth is the arsehole end of the earth.
All it has is a tunnel (under the Thames) a bridge and a lot of shaven headed men and women who wear white stiletoes and shop, constantly.
Just thought you might like to know the true calibre of the OW!
TT - I thought you were from Pimlico? I just read that you are in Hong Kong. Relocation?

Hi Kate,

I'm a PS teacher too!

I can't believe your WH has started again, a year after - what a horrible thing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You are right about the fact that the churning lessens - I wish that them manic house cleaning would happen here!!! Mine is VERY half hearted house cleaning! LOL!

Not at all surprised to hear what kind of area Root comes from! Explains why she settled where she did in Sydney too. My WH (was) a truly decent man, he won't go for that kind of person for long - once she shows her true colours.

The churning for me isn't in my stomach (although I often dont want to eat, but that is slowly coming back too). Mine is in my chest - right under my sternum. And it is like a knot, like a mini tornado going round and round and round.

And yes - just writing about the thought of him with her brings back that churning.

I am very very lucky that I am the kind of person who CAN talk to people, hence the reason that I have survived this well, so far. Hence the reason he FELL to start with I would say - cause he CAN"T talk to anyone.

My concern is that he WON'T have the guts to crawl out of the grave she digs for him when he falls in it with her.

Thanks so much for writing to me. It helps to know that others understand, even if you wish with all your heart that no-one else was in the same sitch.

HUGS.

zuj

PS - I really like your tag line, It is so true for many situations. This one EXACTLY but also I felt like that when my first child was stillborn. Each pregnancy after that I felt that I had lost my innocence and couldn't enjoy the pregnancy.

Geez, how much crap can one person have in a life?
(I'm referring to your horrible stillbirth experience)
(((((((((((zuj))))))))))
With regards to the gravedigging and crawling.
WHEN your WH finally sees the OW for all that she is (and by that I mean isn't) he will be exhausted and very very disillusioned.
It could be the exhaustion and virtual breakdown state that he is in, followed by depression, that could stop him from coming home. I think that this horrible realisation is what Pep refers to as "not protecting the WS from the consequences of their choices", or something like that.
He needs to feel really bad because it will be the first true and honest feelings he has had for months. The realisation of this truth will knock him sideways. The emotions that he thinks he feels in the midst of the "triangle" that he has with you and stilleto lady are all based on fantasy and extremes. Nothing genuine.
Have you had the "I've never felt so alive," line yet. Naturally I followed it uop with, "and I've never felt so dead." But this "aliveness" and energy that WS "feel",is pure adrenaline and when that runs out, they hit a wall of exhaustion, depression, disillusionment and pain.
I think what you (and I) have to work out is how do we take them back and reassure at the same time as not proteceting them from that pain? They need to feel it. Not from us moralising or chastising, but from themselves.

On another issue, my best mate came over for few glasses the other night and told me a simple thing that I had never thought of before. A light bulb came on for me.
She said, "The things that we like, may not always be the things that make us happy".
A quick analogy is, I like T.V. But if I watch a whole evening's worth, I go to bed feeling a bit emopty and like I've wasted a night. It doesn't make me happy.
I like my WH (somehow) but does he make me happy? Hmmmm.
Think on.
Back to work...(kids are being covered in class and I'm supposed to be planning)
Kate xxx

Zuj,

The weekends are the worst but keep yourself busy. I got my SS (18) to help me organize the yard - something I had been after WH to do for months! It gave me a great feeling of accomplishment. I also went to church with my parents. It helped a lot. You have small ones so keeping busy won't be hard for you. My SS worked so I was very often alone on weekends. Urge to call WH was unbearable. Workweek was easier as I was busy.

I believe he is rethinking his decision and I don't think he will have a problem crawling back after he sees the light. You have made it clear that the door is open and that you love him. It is the separations that end in anger that make it hard to come back. Hang in there. I agree that OW will hang herself. They are not able to meet all needs - if they were, WH would not be conflicted. Once she is all he has, he will see her shortcomings. It is natural that he will then compare OW to you. You will win.

Hang in there! Time to get ready for work....my day is just starting here in Florida.

Nkay

Have a great day Nkay! Always wanted to go to Disneyland (thats the one in Florida isn't it?!)

Im just off to bed. DD7 is watching 'skating with the stars!' but I told her if Im going to bed - she is too! lol!

We're spending the afternoon with MIL tomorrow. I can't see her Mothers Day, it will be too hard - but the children should see her, and so tomorrow we will go over and do it.

Sunday, I'll spend with my parents and my nanna.

Hugs Nkay

x0

Kate - I am from Pimlico but moved here in 1989. Back briefly in Battersea for 10 months in 98 while my WH was in Vietnam (construction) and then back to HK until now. 95-97 I was in Kuala Lumpur. Sounds exotic but very ordinary really - school, kids, work, affairs!

Zuj - my husband can't communicate either and I do all the talking. We'll also be watching the FA Cup final. Come on you Reds. TT Just had a thought - get a babysitter, get to the pub and watch it without him. I bet you could get a friend to go with you. Don't miss out on the fun just because he's 'troubled'.

Be your own entertainment director. Pretend you are on a vacation. Think of all the fun (and free) things that you like to do, but never had time because you had to be there for your H. You have time, so do them.

Take the kids for walks. Get involved in a fun church project. Even think of something you can all do for someone else, like help out in a shelter or visit a nursing home. It will be helpful for all of you to reach out in some way to someone else who is lonely or sad, and give you a few moments to think of someone else's troubles than your own.

At least over here, some of the churches even have day camp during the summer, and you could ask if your children could attend for free on days you are able to help out. Then there is Vacation Bible School, library activities, and lots more.

I don't know your schedule, and I'm sure you are busy already, but if you look to fill your mope time with something different, you will find lots of options to keep your mind occupied.

Brainstorm all you want!

TT - Hey, I could just grab the baby sitters, hop on a plane and come watch it with you 'liverpool liverpool liverpool.'

Got a busy afternoon planned this arvo, only the morning that will be slow - so therefore painful. I had this 'feeling' that WH would text or ring last night - but the feeling didn't eventuate. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Not that I would have answered - but would have liked to have known he was suffering! lol!

Will see my friend in an hour who is the intermediary, so I guess she'll tell me if she's heard anything from him at all in the past 24hours.

Neak - my life used to be very very very full - I think that was part of the problem. The past 6 weeks Ive cut all of that stuff in an effort to show my WH that we can have time together as a family. Unfortunately it was too late. I do have a phone call to return from a lady who would like some highland dancers for some old persons 105th birthday at the end of May!! WOW!

So I will give her a ring today and organise that.

But for the moment, have sent Boy off to dancing with his Poppa, the girls are playing in the lounge room, so Im gonna make a cuppa tea, go back into bed and catch up on my journal. I dont start teaching until 9.30 today, and Ive only got the babies class.

5.30am DS4 crawled into bed with me after wetting his bed. 'Mummy, I miss Daddy'

7.00am DD20months starts calling out from her room 'mamma mamma mamma' and when I didn't answer changed it to 'dadda dadda dadda'

9.30am DD7 said whilst watching cartoons 'Mummy, I just want daddy to come home'

A day in the life....

Zuj,

Your story sounds so much like mine. I was also too busy which opened the door for this A. I have tried to be more available. Tonight I was late getting home and H was a little annoyed. Won't come out and say it - just acts all mopey and injured! I have offered to quit and be a stay home wife but he likes the second income.

I am sorry that your children must suffer so. My son was almost grown so he was upset but understood more of what was going on. He became angry with his father. I just don't understand how a parent can put the children aside. Thank God the kids have you. It is so important that they have a stable life (as much as possible with one parent off pretending to be young again)

I do think that what your WH and my recovering WH have in common is that they are trying to relive their youth. Responsibility isn't as much fun. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

If they only realized that you can have fun and stay young at heart and still live up to your family responsibility. When we are all on our deathbed, no one will remember all the fun times in the pub - they will remember the loving times they shared with their families.

Well, I will climb off my soapbox - it is getting late here. H is already asleep. Tonight was our date night but alas the date ended early.

Hope you have a full and exciting weekend making memories with your children that will keep you through this crisis.

Hugs to you!

Nkay

Well today was a day of revelations...

Firstly my friend S came over this morning. She has been getting pretty constant texts from WH, at least 2 a day and they have NOT been just about kids and finances. Things like 'Tell J i want to text her a dozen times a day about silly things and not so silly things. I miss the litle 1s so much too.'

Well today she wrote back (with my permission) and said 'Ive just spoken with J, you can ring the kids anytime, they miss you terribly. Please remember that I am only here to pass on msgs about finances and children until you sort yourself out.'

He wrote back and said 'I thought I was only writing to you about finances and children ' (omg - go back and look in your sent folder mate!!)

So - I was pretty stirred up about that cause 5 mins later the home ph rang and it was his number so DD7 answered and she really didnt want to talk to him, was crying on the phone and then said 'I'll put mummy on' and I said 'no' and she said 'oh, mummy said no, ok bye' and hung up!

So - my churning was back because I could hear his voice (she had it on speaker phone)

Then - I went to the dance out display that my studio was doing and we picked up my MIL so the kids could see her and spend some time with her (cause we wont see her tomorrow). And she said that something has been eating away at her for weeks, and she finally has to tell me.......

When I went to NZ on the 7.8.9 April (so one wk after D day) I asked MIL to go to the soccer with WH and the 2 younger children (DD7 was with me) and then to the preschool easter concert. Well, APPARENTLY after picking up MIL he headed to the city and picked up ROOT!!!!!!!!!!!

MIL said she was sick. She couldn't talk to her, as soon as she got to the soccer she took the kids away to the swings and wouldnt come back. At half time she came back and M said to her (very sarcastically) 'well mum, you did it, she's caught the train home.Well done'

So THAT is why he isn't talking to his mother. And that explains about HOW bad his mum has been feeling. She said she couldnt' believe her SON could possibly do that - to have HER there in the car with his mother and children, as if it was ok.


And then, apparently he said to his brother 'i just wanted mum to meet her'

And he still expects his mother to apologise TO HIM! And now he's not talking to his BROTHER!! OMG! d!ckhead!

NOw - when she told me this she was so worried Id be angry at her. I wasn't - I was just sick. It was like D day all over again

Thankfully it was a good time for her to tell me because I had alot of responsibility this afternoon and had to keep my mind busy. But omg - I feel so sick that he DARED to do that.

I know that it is over a month ago and it was RIGHT when he was fully fully fully fully fully in the fog, but still... after hearing his voice on the ph this morning...

just made it worse.

I see now why Plan B is soo good - you do work up strength - but then the littlist thing kicks up back down again.

Going up to mum and dads for dinner now.

Just had to get all this out!

OMG Zuj! I'm so sorry you are dealing w/this. That must've been so hard to find out. He truly is an alien, isn't he? Your poor MIL, too. How could he put her in that situation?

I got some revelations after asking for more details last night too and now can't sleep (it's 5am here). You are in my prayers. Please take good care.

(((((((((((((((((((((Zuj))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Well Z, it appears your plan B is working. Keep it up and stay in plan B. Seems he can't tell the difference between whining and Finances/children. Hmm..... 1 day he w/b shocked to know how 'silly' he appeared to all. 'Til then, u remain strong and steadfast.

Sorry your MIL and BIL are having such a hard time also. Just reinforces the fact u all need t/b each others support.

All of you pray for that clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. U r doing good. Quite proud of you.

take care,
L.

He msged S tonight asking what I was going to do about my car (we were talking about selling it because the repayments are so much and petrol costs so much atm and buying a littler/cheaper one). He said 'ask J does she just want my car (11 years old - reconditioned motor) I know what bike I wanna buy and need to know how we're going to do it all.'
Now - we were never going to get rid of his car, how would he be able to take 3 kids out on a bike for goodness sake.
Alien is obviously back again today in full force. I can only imagine that today he has driven around to bike shops and looked at bikes.

He doesn't even HAVE his bike licence yet.

I am NOT in a good mood.

But ORchid I thankyou for your support - I dont know sometimes if it's just what he wants though. One msg today or yesterday said to S 'im trying v v hard to respect Js wishes' How about RESPECT ME and WAKE UP!!!

And 24give. Im sorry sorry you too have had revelations <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> 5am seems to be my daily wake up time these days - problem is Im so miserable I just lie in bed staring at ceiling feeling sorry for myself. Wish I could USE that time productively and clean the house or do yoga or something! LOL!

I think Im scared about tomorrow. i was thinking it would be good to go to my Nans, she has been so wonderful (she got my mum to buy me all these groceries the other day cause she felt bad she wasn't able to help with the kids etc). But my cousins and aunts/uncles will no doubt be there at sometime during the day, and not all of them know and i KNOW they will ask where WH is - and I will just blurt it out - I know it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I just read this over on eav's thread and it so sums up my WH - don't ya reckon....

;;;;; ROMANTIC INFIDELITY

Surely the craziest and most destructive form of infidelity is the temporary insanity of falling in love.

You do this, not when you meet somebody wonderful (wonderful people don't screw around with married people) but when you are going through a crisis in your own life, can't continuing living your life, and aren't quite ready for suicide yet. An affair with someone grossly inappropriate--someone decades younger or older, someone dependent or dominating, someone with problems even bigger than your own--is so crazily stimulating that it's like a drug that can lift you out of your depression and enable you to feel things again. Of course, between moments of ecstasy, you are more depressed, increasingly alone and alienated in your fife, and increasingly hooked on the affair partner. Ideal romance partners are damsels or "dumsels" in distress, people without a life but with a lot of problems, people with bad reality testing and little concern with understanding reality better.

Romantic affairs lead to a great many divorces, suicides, homicides, heart attacks, and strokes, but not to very many successful remarriages. No matter how many sacrifices you make to keep the love alive, no matter how many sacrifices your family and children make for this crazy relationship, it will gradually burn itself out when there is nothing more to sacrifice to it. Then you must face not only the wreckage of several lives, but the original depression from which the affair was an insane flight into escape.

People are most likely to get into these romantic affairs at the turning points of life: when their parents die or their children grow up; when they suffer health crises or are under pressure to give up an addiction; when they achieve an unexpected level of job success or job failure; or when their first child is born--any situation in which they must face a lot of reality and grow up.


The better the marriage, the saner and more sensible the spouse, the more alienated the romantic is likely to feel. Romantic affairs happen in good marriages even more often than in bad ones.


Both genders seem equally capable of falling into the temporary insanity of romantic affairs, though women are more likely to reframe anything they do as having been done for love. Women in love are far more aware of what they are doing and what the dangers might be. Men in love can be extraordinarily incautious and willing to give up everything. Men in love lose their heads--at least for a while.

U see how much the selfishness reigns in the pants of a WS? They think with their azzes, u know. LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Stay strong!

L.

You never know - he might also be pricing 3-seater side cars. Now isn't that a picture! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I really suggest not letting your kids put it on speaker phone. Also, if you can try to have them call him most days before he calls them, hopefully he won't call as much. Or maybe he will, who knows, but he at least won't have an excuse.

Also, as soon as you are able, talk more with your MIL and tell her how wonderful she is for what she did, and reassure her that when her son regains his senses he will see things differently.

That was hard to hear, but it has a happy side, too. Think of the mistress, huffy and in tears, headed back to the city alone because of the marked rejection by the woman she most wants to impress, a woman who loves YOU!

While you're at it, tell her about the chocolate if you have not already done so. It will make her feel worse in one way, that her son could be taken in like that, but it will also confirm her keen judgment that this woman is not a proper person to be around her or the children. Your MIL sounds like a great lady!

Zuj - that piece about "Romantic Infidelity" is absolutely spot on. It comes from a book by Frank Pitman (I think) and the rest is just as fascinating. Someone posted it about two years ago when I was new to this sight. Totally sums up my WH and yours - the MIL saga is classic. How dare he expect her to accept OW one week after Dday. HUTAS. TT

Guess what - he msged! As I knew he would...

"I know I said I wouldn't contact you at all and give u some space but I just wanted to wish you a happy mothers day, ok? S assured me that she would help make it a lil bit special. Liverpool won last night. Ive been v v naughty! I went on a massive bender just stumbling home now! Mustve had close to 25 Guiness. You'd think was because Liverpool won! I was written off before game started! Watched the sun come up at the quay and it was very unspectactular. I do recognise I got a problem. When DD cried on ph 2 me yest that's why I drank so much! DIdn't hlep but needed something.Hope S said how much I missed them! I'll leave u alone and go back thru Sally but had2 send u something today, sorry! M"

Well THANKS VERY MUCH MATE. NOw is that HUTAS at its most extreme?

I KNEW he'd write today, I just knew it.Idiot doesn't realise that it makes it even worse being today~!!

My mum and sister bought be lovely pres for Mothers Day to give me from the kids and my DD made me a gorg keyring at school which i very excitedly put on my keys! LOL!

The kids have been v upset about WH today. GRRRR

LOL NEak = yes, can just picture that lonnnnggg side car, with the baby seat strapped in! LOL

I know MIL will bring it up again, she was so cut up about it, yes I am v v lucky to have such supportive inlaws. I will make sure I thank her again for telling me, she knows about pictures, I dont remember if I told her about the chocolate one, because it disgusted me so.

My BIL and family will be there today, so I might ring in an hour or so, that way I can talk to them all and wish them a happy mothers day.

The speaker phone thing is tricky. Because they are always talking to my Sis in Germany they automatically put the speaker phone on the handset and walk around with it like a 'walkie-talkie' which is why she did it yesterday when speaking to her father. I did try to leave the room, because i couldn't cope with hearing his voice, but she was following me.

Do you really think I SHOULD let the kids ring him first? They dont ask to ring him, they just say they miss him. I think he will be too gutless to ring again for a while, cause it 'cut him so, to hear DD cry' oh - poor him. Not poor 7 year old he is destroying.

Now cause he wasn't stumbling home until 9.30 in the morning he will sleep all day and not have to think of what we are doing without him.

Don't forget the 3 little helmets. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Just keep ignoring him like I know you did. La la la, you're not listening!

Maybe have the kids call him every other day, or sometimes every 2 days. That way it's not all the time, but they still get to keep in touch with him. What I like about having them call is you can mentally prepare for it, as opposed to you being in the middle of doing happy things and the phone rings so you tense because you're not sure if it is him and then ohno-ohno-ohno it is so you've got to grab a kid really quick and put them on and then run away and hide so you don't have to listen, and and and.....

Just try and circumvent the whole thing as much as possible.

I would not want to be in the Chocolate Woman's shoes right now, for reasons besides just them being sticky.

i found it amazing that even in that mothers day message he wrote more about himself than anything else... just goes to show that it is all about him. And maybe when he stops drinking like crazy and starts to think instead, he might actually stumble across his problem and tries to deal with it instead of drowning it out. But it will keep coming back every time he sobers up, one day even a fogged out WH might realize that.

Happy mothers day Zuj, enjoy the day with your children as much as you can.

And keep sticking to no contact, that will force him to confront his problem over and over, and no Guiness is gonna solve it for him, he'll get it.. no worries. Be strong

just spoke to my other friend, that he msged the other night (the one that didnt know I'd done plan b).

Sure enough, he msged her last night at 2am, in his drunken state.

She didnt respond. She thought 'nup, Im not gonna msg him everytime he's p!ssed and depressed'. He said in his msg 'sorry to msg you, just so depressed, Im down at a pub trying to watch the FA cup but had to walk out I feel so bad and could you please tell j happy mothers day for sunday'.

Gawd.......

She did say she fully intended on msging him today and telling him that she didnt like to hear from him only when he's drinking, and that if he's feeling that depressed she hopes he's still on his ADs and that if that is the case, he shouldn't be drinking. Also, she says she's gonna tell him that she wasn't going to spoil the mothers day I was having by passing on his msg to me!

EOTR - I know - it is ALL ABOUT HIM!! I too thought that when i read the msg!

And yes, Neak, I see what you mean about the kids ringing. It will be hard to do though, cause, as I said, they really dont want to talk to him when it comes to the crunch.

Im going out for dinner now with my mum, dad and nanna. It's a bit chilly here tonight - gotta get the kids rugged up.

Happy Mothers Day to all your NOrthern Hemisphere people!!

Zuj,I think he is piling on the 'depression' thing. Doesn't want you to think he could possibly be enjoying any element of this. Which is a load of crap, because if he didn't get some kind of high from all of this, he'd already be home (IMO).

Also, the drink. That amount of guinness would render most people drunk and disorderly, yet he can still send a coherrent text message. He's either trying to blame a lot of his behaviour on the drink (because a stone cold sobre man would not behave like this) or he is an alcoholic. Alcoholism is an expensive and dangerous habit. If he can really put away vast quantities of booze, a condition of returning home should be to get help. All that booze and AD's is a bad combo.

I think you really need to get your finances in order. The car business, the bike and all this drinking will start to drain your bank account (plus the little trip he needs to sort out his head). The very last thing you need right now is more worry about money on top of everything else.

Yea - LIVERPOOOOOOOL! (Not that I saw it, I was in casualty with my daughter for stitches in her finger).

I also think he's got a cheek texting a friend at that time of the morning. She'll get p'ed off being the go between if he does that too often (although she could turn off her phone!) I don't know - maybe she doesn't mind but it's a bit naughty.

I agree TT that it's partially an act. Hoping it may be H's head sticking out of the fog for a few hours last night?

Maybe??? He told my friend in the msg that he'd downed 12 guiness at that point - but could send a coherent text. Lucky my friend doesn't mind the 2am texts - but she is not impressed she always gets pissed ones! LOL!

Also - bank account today tells me he withdrew $60, well, that's not that much for a 'bender'

And re the alcholicism - well he certainly wasnt 6 weeks ago - we were both only social drinkers. I dont know if you can become one that quickly?

OMG about your daughter - is she ok?

OH - also - just noticed a text on my phone.

Remember his friend, H? The one who is also in MC with his wife (he is also my DD7 Godfather)

I think that WH has 'asked' H to 'check up' on me for today..

Anyway - I get a text from him just now. Before I write it, let me just say that H is disgusted with WH behaviour, but H is also the sort of person who doesn't really 'express' his feelings. Ive heard from him only when Ive written to him first throughout this ordeal. He is someone who WH saw as a rolemodel and has been WHs friend since highschool. But, WH is alienating all of his friends atm, whether he realises it or not....

This is the text....

"howdy. Happy mothers day to ya. Did the kids spoil you? Just checking up on ya to see how you're doing. Take care."

As Ive said - as much as I LIKE H, and trust him as a good friend, I just can't believe he would, at 8.30pm, send this message WITHOUT having received something from M today.

What do my oh so clever friends out there in MB land think?

Should I a) answer him tomorrow with a 'im fine, lovely day?' (even though it's BS)

or

'Weird MDay with no M at home, hopefully next year back to normal'

or

"did M ask u to check up on me?'

Or

should I send my sister up to his desk at work tomorrow (as they work in the same office) and get her to explain to him that I am 'dark' atm, but that I appreciate his text and thoughts??


Or
Should I just ignore it all together, which is a little rude, especially if I am just being paranoid (which I dont think I am btw!)

Ok - am off to bed now. Soooo please HELP!!! LOL

If it were me, I would just reply "Thanks." That way you have acknowledged him in case his gesture was a nice one of his own, but have not given any information that might be passed on.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Neak. Have done exactly that.

zuj

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Zuj - did a post to you yesterday that disappeared into cyberspace. So annoying.

My daughter is ok. Finger is stitched and she quite enjoys having a bandage on. Just hope it doesn't get infected. As for her eyes, I can only hope and pray that this is not going to progress to blindness. The problem has been picked up early so that's a blessing but it's very much a watch and wait scenario. At the moment she's fine but will have a special night-time lens fitted that will hopefully stabilize the shape of her cornea. Unfortunately, despite the guy's wonderful medical abilities, his bedside manner with children left a bit to be desired (he mentioned corneas from dead people) so she was incredibly upset. I need to discuss this with him for the future.

Who'd have thought a trip to A&E could have a positive effect! It gave us something else to worry about and distract us from the big issue.

Hope you manage to fill your days with busyness and friends. I also think you should latch onto your MIL's support wholeheartedly - my MIL has been wonderful to me throughout this and is everything a grandma should be too. She's so incredibly upset and disappointed - even now, 2 yrs on - we barely get through a conversation without tears. Must be awful to have witnessed the self-destruction of your child. Hope none of my girls ever dabble in adultery. TT

My WH attempted suicide tonight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

FU<k - i can't believe i am even typing it.

apparently all ended with root yesterday. he packed his car, the kids rang him this morning. S msged him with a msg from me re finances.

Apparently 9pm last night he started texting a work collegue and root and then at 3pm today it got critcial and they rang 000 (our 911) and he was picked up by the police and taken to emergency

he is sedated (was violent) and is having antidotes. The psych team will asssess tomorrow, and hope to god they keep him in.

last thing he said to dr before going under was 'dont let my family know im here' but i had found out thru work. when i got there the dr told me that and said 'he may not see you, that is quite common' i said 'i understand, but please tell hiim im here' he did, M didnt want to see me so i just asked the dr to tell him that i love him.

Have taken a ssleeping tablet, gotta get some sleep - dunno what tomorrow will bring.

PRAYERS PLEASE that my HUSBAND comes out of this terrilbe situationm

zuj

anyone who can let me know the 'right or wrong' things to say - please advise.

We knew plan b wasn't going to go for long. We knew he'd crack - just didnt expect to hear that he was at 'The Gap' (notorious spot for 'jumpers') FUU<<<<<<<K\

But he WAS telling people where he was, so that is a cry for help. He wasn't telling ME though.....

ZUJ...

let the professionals take the lead at this time...

with him in so much inner turmoil and pain it is almost impossilbe to have any real conversations with him right now...

way to volatile and emotional...
full of empty words and promises...

you will need a third party to referree conversations....

and protection from saying and hearing things that aren't meant...

if he is in the hospital he is most likely safe....

sit tight....

ARK^^

(((zuj))) Get some rest, stay strong, your family is in my prayers.

Zuj - I have seen so many similarities with your WH and mine and now this. Incredible. My WH did the same but much later on in the A,(brandy and windowledge) and he was never hospitalised. I didn't find out until after. What was hard to bear was that it wasn't over me and the kids; it was because she'd threatened to leave him. After three days they were back together again.

I am so so so sorry that you are having to suffer this. His troubles are many but my sympathies are with you. He is probably deeply ashamed but he'll also be very foggy still. I think you need to let him know you are waiting to talk with him when he is ready to face you. In the meantime, just let the doctors do their stuff. (((ZUJ))).

Oh me, oh my. You are sure having a time of it! {{{{{Zuj}}}}}}}

I am all at sea for advice on dealing with the kinds of problems he has right now, but just want to reiterate that this is your chance to finishe putting your recovery plan together. Plainly you will need it soon. In a minute here I will pull up my (2nd) list of boundaries and extreme precautions, just to give you some ideas.

Really, I don't mean to always sound like the voice of doom and gloom, but it is better to be prepared than caught off guard. There is a very high chance of him having at least one relapse/breach of NC, and sometimes more. The good news is that it seems to be pretty standard, and you can still recover, especially if you are prepared. (Of course the bad news is that it hurts really badly, and depletes love bank reserves that are already close to bone dry.)

Your chances of a false recovery at least go down with both parties adhering to the extreme precautions recommended by Dr. Harley, and implementing them from the very beginning. But for all that M wants you, wants your family, and is clearly at his wits end for how to put everything back in order, the addiction is very strong yet.

It is going to take time for him to emerge from his hormone-induced labyrinth. Once out, he may choose to stagger back in for a while.

Mentally prepare yourself for what you would do if you discovered renewed C after he commits to NC. Have a plan. That way if it happens you will be hurt, but you will never feel out of control, because you already know exactly what actions you are going to take.

One step at a time is how you will get through this. Someday it will feel like a bad dream. You just have to get through a couple more sets of bumps. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey, does anybody know if Zuj has the new record for shortest Plan B that was actually a Plan B?

Ok, I found it. Hope it helps. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

spoke to hospital at 5am, very non-commital nurse, dont know if it's because it was me, or just the nurse. Said 'i can tell u he is still here and safe.' I asked if he was still sedated and he repeated the above statement.

I asked if he was awake and he said 'yes, he had spoken to him throughout the night'.

I said ' could you please just tell him that J phoned.'

he said 'ok' (whether he does or not is another matter)

My MIL phoned an hour ago. She rang them this morning, got hte morning nurse, was very nice to her. Said he was still on the drip and that he was in a deep sleep, but well rested. He had woken occasionally and was lucid. My MIL told the nurse about the mobile phone (because that will have the texts on it that he sent to work. we all kept forgetting that he had it there) and she said 'yes, we have taken custody of that'.

My friend and I will be driving into the city today to try and find his car, whether near Roots place, or at The Gap. I will ring his work friend later today and see if she can get anything out of Root re where the car may be.

I will ring the hosp in half an hour and hopefully get the same nice nurse that MIL got. I will ask her to ask him if I can see him. He will probably say no <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> but at least he knows that I am there ready to talk to him.

Thankyou for your responses. What a nightmare. I do realise he will be deeply in the fog still, part of the reason that I hope they admit him - he can't have contact with her from there and he can talk to the professionals.

Work has told her NOT to contact him - but whether or not she does is another story.... She may feel so much guilt over this that she tries to initate contact?? I hope that she just leaves the mess she has made alone.

Thankfully he has ALOT of long service leave due and much sick leave, so, financially, we should be ok for a while. HE is in the best place at the moment - as long as they can make him talk and he can get his issues out in the open.

I am so scared. I knew something was wrong yesterday. I was so close to texting himm,and everytime I went to I woudl ring my sister at her work instead - she spoke to me 7 times duringthe day!! I just knew that things weren't right. Now I dont know if my texting would have made any difference, i dont know if the kids ringing yesterday morning (and crying to him) would have been what set him off.

Its the 'dont knows'

And i really really wonder what was in those texts to Rootand work collegue. The work collegue wont tell me.

His actions pushed him over the edge, plain and simple.

You texting him might have made it easier for him right then, but would only have prolonged the time and pain until the inevitable breakdown.

Of course Root is not leaving this mess alone. OW's are not exactly notorious for just walking away. But if they won't let you talk to him, chances are they are blocking her from access as well.

You could see if your MIL would try to get permission from him (through the staff) to take custody of his stuff. He might not think about the msgs and say yes, but just keep in mind that most of what you would find on there would probably be hurtful to you. However, I think you have the right to know, if you want to.

Keep us posted, k? We're all pulling for you.

Zuj - nothing you have done has produced this outcome. It's his personality and hormones that have brought him to this. I hope you manage to find his car (unclamped!).

Isn't it strange how you instinctively know when something is more wrong that usual. The day after my WH's windowledge thing I called him. It was the first phonecall I'd made to him for months, other than on a Sunday to arrange with the kids. Something compelled me that day to pick up the phone. Strange. My WH asked to come home for a few nights so he could sort himself out. The first night he was very open and honest and answered a lot of questions. The second night he clammed up again and I KNEW they'd been in contact. So I just let him go. I really wasn't interested in having him back home with an ongoing A (not after being separated for a year at the time).

((Zuj)) - I've said this all along. You NEED to keep strong. He's lost the plot at the moment and the children need you to hold life together. Even if you are on autopilot, the kids won't know, and whatever the outcome of all this mess, one day you will be a normal, functioning, happy dance teacher again. Blessings, TT

Z,

Sorry to hear about the S scare. That is what WS' tend t/d. Mine put a call into me that sounded like a suicide attempt and when I contacted 911, I was told it sounded the same to them. Of course they (WS & OW) denied it but it also made then spend bo-coo bucks at the swanky Motel6 which they couldn't use because a swarm of police (about 4 - 5) arrived to check on the 'suicidal' WS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You are right t/b working with the hospital. This is something he brought on himself so you need to hold your guilt at bay. Give him that healing time. Make sure the hospital are aware of who 'root' is and what t/d when she attempts contact.

Hug your MIL. It is hard on her also and in turn she can help you.

You have our prayers.

take care,
L.

ok - update - what a friggen day from ******..

Found the car at the Gap, in it, sitting on the dashboard was a family photo. The cards that I had given him were sitting on the passenger seat. Half a bottle of paracetamol was gone, as was half a pkt of ADs.

Also found out......

ROOT has another man! That is what caused the Bender. I didnt find out that from him - found that out from his work friend...

M saw me tonight at the hospital. Saw him for 1.5hrs. He said he wasn't going to jump, just went there to think. (right) said he just wanted to run away and start again.

He looked at me and said "im so sorry" and I said "i know you are."

The psych has spoken to root - but M doesnt know that I know that,and I didnt let on. Root has been told by work that she is to end all contact with him.

He did ask to see Root (he doesn't know I know that either) and she has been told by the work collegue that she is to ring her as soon as she gets out from seeing him - and tells him that YES it is all over. And that she is NOT to leave him hanging - again.

It could well be that the other bloke has been around the whole time - that is something I have to sus out from the work collegue -but carefully.

He is scheduled - so it will take alot to get him out - which is good, he can get well.

He is being transfered to another hospital, we hope closer to home.

He asked me to take his dirty clothes home.

I am being very very careful. I know that he is still DEEPLY troubled and in the fog. I mean, I can hope that the reason he wanted to see Root was so that he could tell her off - but more likely it is to see if there's a chance.


I can't go back to plan b now - but i do know I have to tread very carefully.

He has just msged my sister to thank her for looking after me- that is a big step. He also saw his best friend H, and he wrote to me and said 'Had long chat with H.He had tears in his eyes when he left but wont admit it.Male thing! Pls ring and make sure he gets home in an hr. He's the best mate a guy can have &I shouldve talked earlier! Dont need hiim 2 have an accident while on way home from mental patient!H said the quickest way out now is not 2 be the stubbornsh!t of the past 24hrs. I hate it when he's right!'

Anyway, Im at my sisters, mum has the kids (my mum is a God)

M asked me to ring his work collegue and apologise for being such a pratt and to ring his mum and say that he can't see her atm, but thank her. So taht is a big big step too.

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers - please keep them up, we're a long way out of the woods yet. I know that, but I am hoping I can see a pin [censored] at the end of the tunnel.

zuj

Sounds like sightings of your real H is starting to show. See how hard that virus takes hold of their lives? In a while I'll bet your H won't even be able to remember all the misery he has caused. He will still feel guilty but that is t/b expected. Don't take away his guilt, he has to learn to work through it.

U R correct about not being in plan B. Right now he needs his healing space and it is important to know you are available. He doesn't have to know how available u r, just u know and let the doctors tell you when is best to fit in on his healing process.

L.

Zuj, I think he needs a break from his mobile phone too. Totally addicted.

Withdrawal is next on the cards for him after this painful episode. Expect a lot of misery and self-pity.

Glad your mum is a Goddess. Take all the help you can get - you can pay people back later. This is your hour of need. TT

I would personally think they will take the phone off him when he gets to the psych hospital?

Hope so.

Yes - misery and self-pity is already here - great - more of it to come!! But have definately seen the H head pop out a few times - as did his friend. And he msged my mum too!! OMG that is a huge thing for him to do!

I will wait until tomorrow to ring the hospital now. His mother is also going to ring the hospital tomorrow. I have said to him in a msg that I will bring him over some clothes when we knew where he was going so his bum doesn't hang out of the hospital gown he has on!

As you say Orchid. I wont 'be' there all the time, but I do need to contact the hospital, think I will actually drive over tomorrow - not just ring. Its not that far, only 20mins.

Just got this from him...

"It's like a jail! Can't use my phone unless I ask some1 and they'll get it out if they think it's ok. They they gunna vet incoming and outgoing calls and texts. They're freaks in here and I shouldn't be here! U can visit any time u want, but have 2 call 1st. I need some clothes, just some jeans & a long sleeve tshirt, socks and shoes 2. The freaks sittin around the tv talking absolute sh!te. listenig to that for any length of time would drive me insane for sure. Do NOT bring children here at all. Not happy. Ni Ni"

I wrote back and said "OMG, sounds awful. Do you want me to come now, Im at P's can be there in 15mins' and he just wrote back

"No"

So... I am v glad re the phone. And I am sure he DOES feel that he shouldn't be there. But I am still glad that he is in there where they will take him seriously.

But OMG. He is going to be so cranky.

It must be ****** for you at the moment. What on earth have you told the children?
I am a little scared that you are hoping a little too much. I know you are trying not to, but now that he is a little more in your "control" i.e you know exactly where he is 24/7
it may cause you to feel a false sense of security. I feel terrible saying this, but I really don't want you to get hurt anymore than you already have.
I hope you can get some time off work and some rest too. I REALLY hope that your WH is beginning to see you clearly through the fog and is having massive realisations about how wonderful, caring, truly supportive and lovely you are. (((((((((zuj)))))))) I'm praying for you.
kate xxx

How is Root's going to visit him consistent with her employer's instructions to her not to have any further contact with him? Is anyone going to tell the employer if she goes to see your WH....this is blatant insubordination if she does and, in my company, would get her fired.

Regards,

BB

zuj...
can you explain to me why you are no longer in plan B??

can you write out in words what is different...
and what different expectations you have now than before...

an exercise to process this through...

I am not convinced at this point that you should be in great contact with him...

I am not convinced that this isn't going to bring you great sorrow...

I'm just asking you to work it out with me...

convince me....you should be out of plan b...maybe you shopuld be.......but a shadow suicide attempt over the news that girlfriend has a boyfriend...doesn't quite convince me that you wont be greatly hurt

what I am inviting you to do is an exercise of pros and cons...etc...

to process here

ARK