J,

Remember what most fertilizers are made from. You though can kill that A with your own BS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Go in with the attitude that YOU choose NOT t/b part of the A and it's tangled web of deceit. Make the choices for yourself.

This will show your H the path, the light he needs to emerge from the death grips of the WS.

Fertilize with RB. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Light the way back to your heart but don't be in a hurry to let just 'anyone' in. U r better than that and he needs to know it. Show your value. Just don't be conceited or stuckup.

Have a fun!

L.

Zuj - how did it go?

It was good TT.

You're all right, there was alot of fog babble there, but I babbled right back.

And Neak, yep, he's not ready yet - but def v v confused. And he had a good night too.

Rel wasn't really mentioned at all, it was just light stuff.

We walked along the harbour and back to where I had parked the car and he held me for a long time. And then said 'thankyou for not talking heavy stuff, I know it must have been hard'

And I said 'no, it was nice just to go out, but you know that nothing can change until SHE is longer in the picture'

Then he msged me all the way home to check I was ok (it was 1am by this stage)

He arrived at 8am to pick up boy from dancing and came up and kissed me, and then pulled back. He then sent me a msg on the way to dancing that said 'sorry I couldn't kiss you. While Im sleeping in someone elses bed it's just not right. Same as sleeping. Not fair or right, hope u understand.'

When he got back from dancing he asked me if I understood and i said 'yes I do, part of me doesn't want you to kiss me because it feels like Im being used, but another part of me has had u kiss me for the last 15 years and I have been missing that these past 6 weeks. Who is it not fair to'.

He said 'Ive been such a heel, it's not right for you or I, it just makes it more confusing'

and we left it at that.

He left about an hour ago, to go for a long drive down the coast road. He saw my dad today and dad spoke to him first, and so when WH came inside he said to me 'im going to msg your parents and thank them for looking after kids so much recently'

And he has. Mum rang me.

He said he'll ring me this arvo to check all is ok. I just wrote him one msg, perhaps not a great one, but one none the less. I had said again this morning about how, whilst root is in the picture there IS no picture.

Oh - when he left this arvo DS4 was sobbing and holding on, 'I wanna come for a drive too daddy, let me come too, please can I come with you, I miss you.' It was great! All the stuff that i had been trying to tell him was happening, but he had never witnessed himself.

He kept looking at me as he left saying 'im so sorry' (meaning about Boy) I know it really really really cut him up to see it.

So this is what I wrote him "Just 1 msg and I will leave u alone I promise! Perhaps see if u can find a public ph at some beach and give that counselling service a call. So its not just going thru your head a zillion miles an hour. I promise 2 keep things light tomorrow for the kids and our sake, so we can have some good family time. When u call later we can talk about it. What P (sister) said in her msg applies to all. Dont forget taht. But everything will take baby steps. I cannot and will not rush headlong back into 'us' and I know u can't either. Please read my letters and cards when u feel most alone, because you're not. I think about you and how this can be made right constantly but BABYSTEPS. and U know what those 1st steps have to be. Have a peaceful drive xo'

And Ive not msged him since, although he has just sent thru that he msged my parents.

Oh - he said last night that he can't forgive his mother for what she said to him, and until she apologises he wont speak to her. Well, I said 'I dont know what she said to you, so i can't judge, but i do know she was totally distraught and no doubt that came across in her conversation with you.' i mean - how dare he think he has the right to ask for an apology from her - mind you - as I say, i dont rightly know what she said - but it was obviously very nasty!! :0

When he was leaving I did ask what he was doing tonight and he said 'oh, I'll see where I end up, but will just go back and see' and I was looking far off and he said 'don't, i know what you're thinking, don't think that, ok.' and my eyes filled up but I maintained my composure.

So yes - last night was ..... interesting. There are just so many games and so much pretense and it makes me so sad.

You know - as much as he has said 'he has been a shi!thead and he has been a heel and he can't believe he's done this to us' he still hasn't looked at me and said 'i am sorry' Well, he did the first night i confronted him, at the soccer at half time when I said 'how could you?', but since then. he's never said it outright. I so need to hear that - but realise atm I prob wont.

Oh - last night he was saying again about getting away for a week and he said because I need to just have time away from everyone, from you and the kids because I know you love me and want to sort things out so there is pressure there, from Root because she's Root (I so wanted to follow that up - but didnt want to interupt him) and from all everyday life.'

I said 'well dont take your phone!' He said ' I need to in case something happens with the kids and u have to contact me.' Then he said 'would u be right if I went away for a week, with not seeing or hearing from me for a week.' And I said 'well, we'll survive im sure.'

Ummm - I think that is all - I think.....

Each day proves such totally different scenarios!

Oh - on a bad note I find out that IF root gets the ncstl job (which is 99.9% happening) then she is able to change her visa to a full holiday visa - F^<K!!!! So she doesn't have to go back in September. She is on some permit visitors thing now - I dont know.. Might go and check out the immigration site I think.

hugs

OH - I just remembered something else.

He said to me 'Im glad we did this, Im sorry I couldn't do it last night (anni) with you.'

I said 'I wouldn't have done this last night, no way. This isn't going out for our anniversary.'

And again today I said to him 'you know, last night wasn't about our anniversary, It wasn't a happy anniversary so that wasnt' why we were going out.'

He said 'i know, we will keep that for when things are right.'

I said 'yes' and I thought *when things are right?!!*

But I know I read waaaay toooo much into everything he says or does or doesnt do. It is a bad trait of mine, which has come to the forefront even more these past weeks.

{{{{{{{{{Zuj}}}}}}}}}}} Still doing great!

It is only reading too much into things if you think that because he said xyz he will be back any second now. I think it is fine to pin long-term hopes on his statements and actions. He is just your typical conflicted WS, maybe even a bit more conflicted than most for how early in the game you are, and all that is good.

If you have the chance, if the subject comes up again as to why he won't kiss you when he's sleeping with someone else, gently remind him, "You know, you can't be unfaithful to your mistress. You can only be unfaithful to your wife."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh Neak - I LIKE that sentence. See - that puts it SO MUCH MORE ELQUENTLY (sp?!) than what I wanted to say but conveys the exact same feeling.

Tonight Ive been at the 21st. It was a good night, I was pretty sad but had lots of friends around me. My DD had a lovely time and didn't want to come home!!

He msged me as I arrived there to say how miserable he was and how upset he was at DS's reaction today to his leaving. It was like - YEP - reality check! You finally are SEEING something.

I got a bit emotional when I had to do my speech, thankfully my friends knew why and were good for me.

One bad/sad thing. Someone I know came up to chat and then said 'so where is M?' Well F^>K that is the first time ive been asked' So I said 'We've actually separated atm, he is off having a midlife crisis.' Well poor woman didnt know what to say and I told her 'look that is the first time ive had to tell anyone, so Im not feeling too good either.'

Funnily enough my mum had the same question pinned on her tonight when she was out with my other 2 children. A friend came up and asked her how her daughter was. She assumed she meant my sister and was replying when it dawned on her she meant me. She was v shocked that this person knew. So mum just said 'Well, he is having a nervous breakdown, if he hasn't already had it and has taken off.'

But it shook her up.

Its now half past midnight and Ive just gotten the kids to bed. Ive taken a sleeping tablet (so if this gets a bit drunk looking you'll know why! LOL) and I am going to put the phones on silent. Hoping I can get a good lie in in the morning.

WH said 'he will see how he feels tomorrow as to whether he visits, if he still feels so sad (over DS) he might not be able to do it!' GRRRR

So, after lunch tomorrow Im going to take kids, and mum and dad up to the local park with the bikes and we'll have a nice arvo. If WH comes around he can msg me and come up to the park. Of course I hope he does but I dont think he will.

It was awful tonight, being out with my friends, who had their husbands and children there (all dancing students of mine) and my husband, who is great mates with these blokes, not being there. It was just soooo sad. He WOULD have had a good time, and if I could have gotten him there it would have been a wake up call with regard to 'family' life. NOt the single fancy free (fantasy) life he is living atm - in which he is still miserable.

ANyway, i can feel my eyes getting heavy - so that's a good sign!

Signing out till the morrow....

On the other hand, once you get back together, any of your friends whose H's have an A will be calling you for help, asking how you got him back, and if there is any hope for them.

Best of all, you will know just what to tell them.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Zuj,
I don't post much but try to keep up with your story. I see a lot of similarities in us.

Four years ago, my H left me & our 3 sons to pursue a hoochi mama that he was having an EA with. He moved in with a single friend of his and began acting as if he was single.

He would go to the kids' soccer games and then help me get them in the van. The kids would cry & beg him to come home with us. Though he looked sad, he would still walk away. Once, my oldest said, "Why don't you kiss Mom goodbye?" My H replied, "No. I've got to go." That burned.

During his MLC, he went tanning, got a tattoo, had his teeth whitened, & dyed the gray out of his hair. Though he was 40, he played on 2 different softball teams made up of 20-something single guys. The boys and I would go days without hearing from him.

I, too, grasped at what I could. I still remember a conversation on the phone when I started to cry. He said, "What's the matter, Honey?" Just calling me "Honey" gave me a glimmer.

Today, 4 years later, my H is at every one of our sons' sports games & meets. He coaches & is the most attentive H & father anyone could ask for.

I still have fear & am recovering. There are issues that we need to deal with, but he is home every night. And you know what else? I get kissed!!! ALOT!!!

There is hope, Zuj. Hang in there!

Tatertot

Oh Tatertot - you give me hope.

I have heard from WH this morning, he is off checking out motorbikes (more of the MLC) and then is coming over and we're all going over to see the Dr and to have lunch on the beach.

I have just rung the drs surgery to ask the doc to ring me back. I wanna talk to him before WH goes in and explain how much of a break down he is having, surviving on 2 hours sleep, etc.

I will tell the Dr all of it and ask him just to tune out/forget whatever he feels he shouldn't hear from me.

Then when we go to the Drs we'll all go in first off, so the kids can get seen to, then I'll leave M in there with him.

The ADs just aren't working. He is worse, he is saying screwy stuff. If we had private cover I'd get him to the private psych hospital to have him assessed but we don't. HOpefully the Dr will take it very seriously. He has been our family dr for 8 years, and WH gets on v well with him.

Just hope the Dr rings back.

Thanks so much Tatertot for writing to me, how long was your WH away for? Unfortunately my WH is not just in an EA, it's a PA as well.

The pain of not hearing from him for days must have been awful. I have trouble not hearing from him for hours <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I wrote him a little letter last night, it was after I logged off here and I still wasn't too tired. I just wrote in it, like a diary. Things that I would normally get to tell him, but cause he's not here I can't. So I will give that to him this arvo as well.

Wish me luck!

Tatertot - one more thing - financially - how on earth did yu cope?

Thats one of our biggest burdens, finance and this of course is just adding and adding to it.

Like today - having lunch on the beach will mean BUYING lunch. We can hardly afford it atm. The same as going out for dinner the other night. I desparetly wanted to, but at the back of my mind all I could think of was 'omg - we can't afford this!'

Zuj,

I have also been following your posts since the beginning b/c our d-days are so close together. You (and everyone on MB) are in my prayers. My sitch is relatively good now since my H is totally remorseful and actually told me on his own about the A when I may never have found out otherwise (but I would've always wondered). We are seeing a MC and he is in a Christian 12-step program, thank God!

What Neak said about you being able to help others really hits home w/me. About 2 years ago a friend of mine was in a very similar sitch as you, except that she was pregnant and had a 3yo boy. It was devastating for everyone and I spent hours on the phone w/her night after night. I wish I had known about MB back then, but apparently I gave her some good advice (she also had a great Christian IC) b/c she held on thru it all and he finally moved home about a year ago and he has been sober for 6 mos.

It truly is a miracle. He was also depressed and extremely selfish like your WH and began to fail miserably in life on his own (arrested for driving under influence, fired from job, etc.) Back then my friend asked me what I would do if I were ever in her sitch. I never thought I would actually have to answer that question for real. :-( She and her FWH are a help to us now and I hope that what you and I are going thru will also be used for the good in some way.

Take good care.

Thankyou 24give. I am so glad for you that your H is remorseful and you are seeing a MC. I pray that it works for you both.

WH just rang and asked if we would meet him at the Drs. I said 'I would prefer to go in the one car' He said 'ok, but it wont be long, there are things I need to do this afternoon.'

I said 'ok, what do you need to do?'

He said 'go looking at other bike shops.'

So - yes, he is willing to go to Drs, spend 'lunch' with kids and I but then takes off.

I know he needs time to himself, but we miss him so much, I wish we could have the day together <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> But the day is already half over adn by the time he gets here, we get to the drs, we get into the drs it will probably be dark and we wont get to 'lunch/dinner on the beach.'

But at least he IS coming for part of the time. I should look at that I guess.

You and Neak are both right about if friends are in the same sitch. I just hope none are, but know that to be a fantasy - there is too much of this out there.

Next Sunday is Mothers Day. He has already said that we will all go out somewhere, so Ive gotta look forward to that I guess, cause there's gonna be alot of fog babble between now and then.

We have our MC appointment next Thurs night. The paraphrasing isn't going well. He can't think of things to say, but we are talking - so I guess THAT is something. Will have to see what the MC thinks about the failure of the paraphrasing. He did say it was very plasic and dif to do.

Thanks for your post 24give and *HUGS AND PRAYERS* to you.

J

Well today was - hmmmm - interesting.

He was very stand-offish when he arrived (Im assuming he got some good sex this morning) and we headed over to the docs.

An hr and a half wait in the waiting room and he was still quite quiet. We get in there and did the kids first, then he went downstairts to the chemist to get the flu vaccine and took the kids and I stayed with the Dr.

Well, when I told the Dr he was LIVID to say the least. He asked 'who knows' I said 'everyone' he said 'and he's still WITH her? Chuck him out J you have too high self esteem, you are a smart intelligent woman, why are you putting up with his crap?' Then he said 'it's not depression he's got - its guilt and I dont want to see him, you're my patient today'.

But i begged for him to see him because that was the sole reason we were going over.

So when WH came out he was very touchy feely with me. We took the kids over to McDonalds for tea and whilst they were playing he was trying to make conversation etc, and was v attentive. I was convo back, but quite calm.

Then we got home and I threw the kids in teh bath and started to get lunches ready for tomorrow and he said 'Im going to shoot thru while they're in the bath, Ok?'

I said 'make sure you go and tell them, Im not having htem come out and ask where you are.'

So he did.

Then he came up to me at the sink and said 'see you later darl and gave me a peck' and I said 'ok, bye'

And that was that.

Then the front door shut and I put my head down on the bench and cried <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I dont know what to do. I dont know if I SHOULD go into plan b (which is virtually what Dr was saying, only give him kids on 2nd weekend, dont ring him/text him. Go see a lawyer to show him what he will have to give you.) or whether I should carry on as I am??

I just dont bloody KNOW.

The dr thinks the MC is a waste of money.

Hey Nkay - I know you did the 'chuck out' and it worked - wondering what strategies you used? I am thinking Im heading down that path in the next week or so.

Oh - I wrote him a wee letter last night (think I said that earlier) anyway, I gave it to him earlier and said 'its not anything heavy, just stuff I would normallys ay to you, but youre not here to say it to.' and as he left he said "I'll read your letter"

SHould I continue to do that?

Anyway - THE RB THAT I NEED...

He wrote this in a text 10mins after he left....

"Sorry for running away tonight but if all 3 were like DS was then that'd send me into I dont know what!"

I wanna write back 'have you run away? I thought you were gone already?' but I think that's too sarcastic?

OMG!Just got this message from him

"you were very quiet after chat with Dr and on way home? U ok? Was he worried about u? He was v quiet with me & just listened & offered small bits of advice & 2 come and see him if and whenever i need it.'

ORCHID - HELP! HELP! What do I say??

Hi Zuj,

I've been reading about everything that's happening to you, and have been sad for you and angry for you.

What your doctor has said makes so much sense it's scary.

If you finally go to Plan B. It'll feel like it's going to kill you. BUT IT WON'T.

Best of luck,

I.A.D

Hi Zuj, I'm no use with reverse babble so hopefully Orchid will come along soon to help you out. Just want you to know I am following your situation but don't always have advice. I hate the way he's playing this - calling you as soon as he's out of her sight and vice versa. He doesn't want to let go of you - that's obvious - but he is totally addicted to OW at the moment. With any luck she'll get her visa and decide she's too young to get caught up in all this crap. I have a feeling it will be her making the decisions, not him.

As for the motorbike - how can he afford it? It's ok for him to get a bike but not for the family to have a holiday? Definitely got HUTAS. Why don't you spend the money before he does? Don't know if that's very MB but the motorbike will be used for OW and him to ride off into the sunset. I'd try and put a stop to it. TT

Hi TT,
Thanks mate.
I agree re the addicted to OW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Regarding the motorbike - dont get me started on that. He knows we dont have the money atm - more of his fantasy. And it's not just a little 250cc he's thinking about either!

Thanks IAD - Plan B is such a scary thought. The thought of gambling it all hurts so much.

Why doesn't he love me like he used to. He adored me, he really did. And I just took all of that for granted cause he was always there, has always been there. To not have that person even physically TOUCH you anymore, after they couldn't keep their hands off you (and I dont mean just sexually) is something that truly frightens me.

Well, it's Sunday night (actually Monday morning) and I have 3 children to drop in 3 different places by myself in the morning <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> If WH was here he would be taking one of the girls but as he's not I have to leave at least half an hour earlier to get to all of the drop offs and get myself to work on time.

Im so tired. Im just so tired

Good to have the Doc on your side.

Now as to plan B. It's got t/b when U R ready for it. Your mind and heart needs t/b in sync. You must be comfortable with your plan A improvements for you. You should have your personal boundaries identified and it is recommended your secure your family's finances (WS' like to spend $$ on the A - selfish toys,hobbies and the OP).

Can you schedule a call to Steve Harley @ MB?

Btw, let him wonder about your visit with the Doc. A type of response c/b:

WS: "you were very quiet after chat with Dr and on way home? U ok? Was he worried about u? He was v quiet with me & just listened & offered small bits of advice & 2 come and see him if and whenever i need it.'

BS: The doc is worried about me also. I will need to visit him later.

NOTE: No more info - re: it is good a WS spends time worrying.....less time for the WS to spend on the A.


Take care,
L.

He's backing away again....

He is supposed to be here this afternoon because of my dance teaching. Wrote to me to say he cant make it.

He can't take DS to preschool tomorrow morn but can pick up DD from dancing.

He then wrote about what he has for work the rest of the week - busy busy busy.

We're supposed to have MC on Thursday night. I hope he remembers. I don't even know if he will ring me tonight. We haven't done the paraphrasing for a couple of days, even tho I have tried. He says he can't think of things to say - good or bad.

I had a bad bad bad night and couldn't get up for work. Kids and I stayed home. Bad I know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

They are currently playing out the back. I crawled out of bed at midday. Poor DD7 made the other 2 breakfast, the darling girl. Ive now spent the last hour trying to find the sink and bench! lol.

Why is he doing this to me? Why is he still there with her? How can he do this to his children?

OH I wish I could fast forward time - usually time goes way too fast as it is, but I just can't bare this agony. At least if time was fastforwarded I would be better - one way or the other.

I was very bad this morning and sent him very needy texts. He hasn't responded with an ounce of emotion to any message today.

I am so scared he has given up on 'us'.

I am back to where I was a week, a fortnight, 3 weeks ago. Why is it 2 steps forward 3 steps backwards.

My DD said to me this morning 'when is mothers day?' I said 'this Sunday'. She said 'well mummy, Im going to make you breakfast....... and Im going to make it for daddy too.' and then she burst into tears and hugged me and wouldnt let go for 5 mins.

Why can't we understand/fathom how they could possibly want to lose/give up all that they have here? How could he change so quickly about his responsibilities to his children, even if he felt that way towards me - of which I had no idea.

Why did SHE have to come on the scene. She has no idea what she has done.

Juz, you must get yourself and the kids ready for work/school. Routine will help you function. If this is starting to destroy you then you must soon remove yourself from his seedy world.

As and when you do, remember it is not the end. He NEEDS his J fix and so far you are available for him. He will miss you more than he knows. You are just as addicted to the phone/text thing as him and it will be hard. But start preparing yourself for a complete break from him. He is playing a wicked game at the moment - damaging you and the children emotionally whilst he gets a cheap thrill. She is NOT the love of his life. You are. I reckon three months of this crap max. Then shut him out. Let him see how it feels to potentially lose the most important person in his life.
He's a bloody fool. I'm so sad for you because he really has changed everything. You might not realise it yet, but you now pull the strings. He WILL want back in but you might want nothing more to do with him. Really hope he wakes up soon. God bless. TT