Zuj, please don't discount the possibility of him contacting OW. Keep an eye on his mobile phone. My WH used to delete the history so I KNEW he was still in contact. Also, if he starts to hide the phone from you. Obvious really. He has a long, long journey before you can begin to trust him again.

Shame the Aussies didn't upset the Brazillians last night! That would have been a turn up for the books (and the bookies!). Take care. TT

You're a mind reader TT!

She 'contacted' him. I saw the msg first - unread on his phone. I said 'Root has msged you' 'WHAT!' he said, and it was genuine shock.

Anyway - it turns out that she 'accidently' messaged him because his name is directly above the new OM - Mick. This is apparently how M found out about the other bloke the first time - she did the same thing.

However, it of course started the withdrawrals. HE msged her yesterday (the other happened on Tues night) and said 'up to your old tricks'. She msged him back and said 'I understand if you never want to talk to me again, Your a v nice and special man and you should be happy.' He msged her back and said 'happy, hah - I was in a friggen loony bin, now Im on a cocktail of drugs to stop me being in there. The only women I trust now are my children'.

Well - to say I was/am pissed off - is an understatement. I 'found' these msgs on his phone this morning. He deliberately left them there for me to find - typical gutless M - not wanting to tell me that he had contacted her, but wanting me to know because 'he has no hidden agenda now' (his words - not mine).

So I went up to him, woke him up and said 'have you heard from root?' He said 'look at my phone' I said 'I did, how dare you say the only women you can trust are your children - what i have done to deceive your trust, all I have ever done is be here thru this ****** for you, why didnt u tell me you had msged her back' He said 'because you woudl have reacted like this'.

I said 'no - I would have reacted, but not as badly as this because THIS was behind my back, even though u deliberatly left the msgs there for me to see. I just start to step forward on the trust issue and you slam me back into the wall again. What hidden agenda could I possibly have in all of this, YOu're not hte only one on friggen drugs remember, Im taking them too - thanks to you. So is a third of the nation. YOU're not the only one depressed out there in the world.'

Anyway - to say I was an emotional wreck was an understatement. DD21months was at this stage banging on the door so M got up to change her pants, he made a coffee and brought it in to me.

I decided it was time to sms Root myself (unbeknownst to him) and I did. I did believe him about it being an accident about the msg on Tues night - because the msg didnt make sense.

I wrote an epic novel to her saying to pls break all contact with him, that we were moving forward until her 'accidental' msg Tues night. That M had said he wanted a future with me. That living with a depressed partner was a nightmare but one I was willing to slog out - but not if it involved him in contact with her. For her to enjoy her working holiday and get on with her life. And that I had not contacted her in the last 3 months, so for me to be doing so today must show her how serious I am about this. Oh - and to please not tell M I had contacted her because he is so paranoid and anxious atm.'

Well, I didnt know which way it was going to go, but I figured I couldn't just leave it anylonger.

2 mins later I get a msg back from her with profound apologies about how she wishes she had never gotten involved with a married man and that she had already deleted him from her contacts so it wouldnt happen again, and could I go thru Ms phone and delete Micks number. And how sorry she was again for destroying our lives, that she has the man she wants.'

I wrote back and said 'what is Micks mobile number, I will go thru Ms phone and delete it, but it must be under another name, I am glad you are with the man you want, pity you didnt meet him before you meet M.'

She wrote back with the number and said 'Mmm, I agree, I wish I had too, I should never have gotten involved. Please take care of yourself, the children and M. All the best - Root'

She has a friggen HIDE hasn't she!!!

Anyway - I was going out on a 'play date' with my mums group today. I was just getting ready to leave when M said 'which one are you off to? I might ride out and join you for a while.'

I was shocked, here I was, needed that ****** session with my friends and he was going to turn up.

I think it was his way of apologising for his behaviour. Cause this mornign I kept saying 'why cant you TALK to me' and he was replying 'when I have ever been able to about these things' I said 'thats how we got to this in the first place, youve GOTTO talk to me.'

Anyway - he turned up about an hour and half after I arrived, which was good cause I had time to clue hte other mums in, and to get rid of the root texts off my phone and send thme to my friends phone so that if I ever need them i have proof they exist.

He has been very depresssed the last few days, I know depression has its ups and downs, i just doent know much is depression, how much is Root withdrawral and how much is guilt - ya know??

Ironically, only yesterday afternoon did I ring the MC and book in! Our first appointment is 4th July.

I really and truely and really think he doesnt trust me because he thinks I will never forgive him. He thinks that he will get all comfy and 'in love' and 'settled' and I will tell him to p!ss off. I just know that this is what he believes deep down, and this is somethign that I will be bringing up at the MC when we get there.

When he came to the mums group thing today he was very quiet, but friendly with those mums he knows well. He stayed for about 3 hours and then left and I met him at home. He has taken DD7 to dancing, wont be home until 7.30pm.

It makes me so angry. I have made so many changes, for the better - i am glad I have made them, they weren't just for him. But the house is neater, I have the kids in better routines, my work is getting done alot better, we have 'quality time' together and yet all this [censored] still happens.

I know that it's 5 steps forward 2 steps backwards but today seemed to be the other way around.

GRRRRRRRRRR

I do believe Root in that she wont contact him again. But I just dont know if he will try and contact her...

[censored] [censored] [censored]. I should have done a NC letter.

Will see what tonight brings. Im gonna be very distant tonight, see if HE brings anything up - hah.

Zuj - I hope that Root has the decency (!) now to back off and give your marriage a chance. She is calling the shots and he is weak. I believe he is like my WH - basically a good man who fell totally head over heels very very quickly. They become quite pathetic. My WH was totally, willingly manipulated by a passport seeker. She was much stronger than he was and she knew it. When I look back he has been 'in love' 3 times - his first love, me and OW. He gets so emotionally involved he loses all sense and reason. When I first met WH, he was literally crazy about me - much more so than I was with him. His patience and dilligence won me over. That's when it all went wrong!!! That was not meant to sound big-headed - but it's true. So I know what she got from him.

Take care Zuj. Hope you manage to keep your head above the water whilst he withdraws. YUK. TT

zuj...

You gotta pull back from wanting Allll of this fixed today...
you gotta pull back from pushing everything to the front of the plate of an agenda....

it is classic what you are feeling and doing..
lets hurry up and address and fix this..

but you two are on a learning journey process...

here's my advice...
be still
get through day to day...
focus on small tiny moments of tenderness and compassion...

quit
quit
quit
saying things like...

Cause this mornign I kept saying 'why cant you TALK to me' and he was replying 'when I have ever been able to about these things' I said 'thats how we got to this in the first place, youve GOTTO talk to me.'

change all of that..

go tinier steps

don't demand he change
don't demand he talk to you..

teach eachother how to talk...

otherwise he will cling aggressively to he can't and never has....
and you will just escalate the demand to just do it...

talk about this issue in broader terms..

empathize with the his usual pattern of bottling things up..

do exercises for him to come up with five things to tell you....
and then he picks one to share with you..etc..

reward him every time he tells you something...
but you also have to lightened periods where the pressure is off...

also I am concerned about the terms you used to the OW...

and to please not tell M I had contacted her because he is so paranoid and anxious atm.'

this CAN be dangerous territory..if she turns and tell him you are saying things about him like that...it can become fodder for him to deflect the issues....

in other words if I was on tx and meds etc..and my spouse was telling people I was paranoid and anxious and presenting me in an unhealthy way...
I would be very upset...

can you see what I mean...and I am hopeful the OW does never show him or tell him....

the bigger picture is a marriage of love and companionship that is fullfilling..

this is NOT going to happen overnight

be still

be calm

create moments of great relaxation and lightened up..

be wary of how many friends you are sharing the difficulty...for he may feel alienated..build a support group you both share....

recovery is hard hard stuff zuj...

ARK

Please don't count on that woman's decency. It is likely to last only until she and Mick have some problems.

When M has problems, that is when he is most vulnerable, too.

I would strongly recommend changing your phone numbers so she does not have such easy access.

Also, keep Mick's number. You never know if you will need it for exposure.

Hang in there - you'll get through this.

i know it was dangerous to contact Root. But I was just at a place where I thought 'what the fu<k". It just seemed so hopeless and if she told him, she told him.

Well, so far she hasn't. ANd yes, Neak, I agree with you that she could well contact M when she and Mick have problems. Let us hope that does not happen before Septemeber and seh is out of here and back to the UK.

I have kept Micks number.

Ark - your post was great. Thankyou for slapping me down to slow me down. I went and read a few posts about 'recovery from suzette. and it's classic signs what he is doing and what I am doing.

I have emailed M and sent the links - and asked him if he could please read them when he is up to it. I also told him about them, face to face and said 'Id really like you to read them if you would, it explained to me alot of what you may be feeling, and it may explain to you some of what I am feeling' He didnt' say no - but who knows if he will. At least they are there in the email.

TT - She is definately a passport seeker - I dont reckon she'll get it though - too tough, and my sisters friend said she was gonna 'flag' her on the immigration logs - just hope she does....

things have been better today. Still no 'touching' liek there was last week, but we have sat and chatted about the soccer etc - Last nights Auzzie win was a great bonding time! LOL! We could cheer together.

We have a wee friend of DD7 staying over tonight, so DS4 is sleeping at Nan and Pops (so he doesn't get jealous of the girls). So teh girls have been beautiful and not at all noisy or naughty. DD21mths went to bed early so M & I had time on the lounge just to watch tv and vege. Not talk about anything really, cept things that came up in the show - but at least - be together without distractions.

It is pouring here in Sydney, but if it's clear tomorrow I will take the kids to watch him play soccer. He is thinking of riding his bike up to his brothers at the central coast tomorrow morning, depends on the weather. I'll be teaching, so its good to know he's not moping in the house, and he rang his bro to say he'd let him know in the morning if he was coming or not.

We are hoping to go out with friends tomorrow night, or next Saturday night. There is a local club that has a kareoke night every Saturday, and every 2nd Sat is a kids one. It is with the family of the wee girl we've got staying tonight - and M gets on well with her parents.

Ark - we are building a good support group - and this couple are a strong part of it - thank God.

Thankyou for your thoughts and prayers. I was back plan A-ing tonight and it wasn't too hard to do. Made us a nice dinner, sat and watched tele with a cuppa and some dessert. Chatted about incidentals - was good. I did ask, out of the blue, if he'd heard back from Root. I probably shouldn't but I thought 'stuff it, I want to know, and it will build up inside of me if I dont ask, and then it will come out in a gush of tears' So I asked in a calm voice. He said 'no' and I said 'ok' and left it there.

must go to bed, am exhausted after gettuing up at 4am to watch the SOCCEROOS get thru to the final 16! WOOHOOO!!

zuj

Well soccer's been cancelled cause the ground is underwater!! It is a beautiful day here today - but too muddy at the field.

So M left for his brothers a bit later and doesn't have to hurry back. His brother can get very 'narky' so i warned M that the first sign of that - just to say 'ok, ive gotta go' and leave.

I have made good use of the time alone (as in alone with the kids - I wouldn't know what time 'alone' meant!! lol!).

I threw them out into the back yard whilst I cleaned up the loungeroom (where the girls slept last night) Pulled all the lounges out adn discovered disgusting things under there (as you do when u have 3 children under 8!) Have washed up, washed floors, done 2 loads of washing, mowed back yard and put baby to bed! DD7 is making a birthday card for a friend's party tomorrow. DS4 is watching TV (surprise surprise!) Im gonna do a bit of surfing, make myself a cuppa and go and vege on the lounge and watch what I want to watch on tv.

Oh - phone just rang, it was M, just arrived at brothers and wanted me to know he made it ok (first long ride on motorbike). Said he'd give me a ring when he is leaving.

Have a good weekend everyone, hope that we can here - it has started well.

Zuj

So he gets to ride out on his new motorbike and you get to clean up after a sleepover. When did he get the bike? I wanted you to go to Germany!. I know, I know, it's just life with kids but I'm p'd off for you. Hope he normally gives you a hand with all the housework.

Australia have done incredibly well in the World Cup. I'm sure most of your country are suddenly taking a very active interest in soccer. I know it' s mostly AussieRules stuff - right?

Enjoy the rest of your weekend. TT

yep - that about sums it up TT!I am p'd off for me too! He does normally (as in before A) give hand with housework etc, but he is not doing anything atm. Even stuff for himself. He's said almost every night about how he has to go thru his cupboard and purge his shoes etc - still hasnt' done it. Falls alseep on the lounge watching World Cup.

YEs Australia taking great interest in Soccer atm. NSW and Qld are Rugby League followers usually and Victoria and Sth Australia are Aussie Rules mostly.

BUt there are so many people of ethnic extraction that live in Oz - Soccer has always been huge - as a junior sport anyway.

Let's hope the dream continues tomorrow night....! lol

Hopefully these are issues you will be able to address with your MC.

If he is not doing his share, you will be tempted to have even more resentment toward him than you do/will already. That is not good - you will have plenty on your plate without fresh fodder for the anger mill.

(Make the alliteration stop! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> - I could have called it the 'mad mill'...)

How are you feeling, overall?

How am I feeling Neak - FRIGGEN FRUSTRATED!!!!!!

I know that what Ark says above is v v true and things have to move v slowly etc.

However - does v slowly mean a complete stop??

Sure, there is no mention of Root, he is at home, and we are going out as a'family'.

But he is not 'touching' me (and he was a very very affectionate man before all of this), he is barely speaking to me in fact. Not that he is being nasty - he's not - but not a single EN of mine is being filled.

I feel like I am instigating EVERYTHING. I dont know how much is depression, how much is guilt how much is not wanting too....

I am the one who says 'why dont we take the kids out to the park?' "yeah sure" he says. And we do. Im the one who says 'would you like to go for coffee tonight, I can ask mum to come up and watch the kids when they are in bed." 'That sounds good' he says. WHY IS IT MEEEEEEE.

All I want is for him to ONCE say 'would YOU like to go, well I dont care - to the bloody sewerage plant would do - if he was asking'!! lol!

Same as kisses or hugs. I am the one who will reach out and say 'how are you doing today?' and give him a kiss or a hug.

I dont know WHAT TO DO

I can't WAIT until next Tuesday at the MC. I actually said to him this morning 'have you told the IC that we have a MC appointment on Tuesday' he said 'I didnt know what day it was, but I'll see him on Monday so mention it then'.

He brought home alot of 'reading' stuff from the IC - about cognitive behaviour therapy. I read it - he hasnt' yet - of course! He probably wont either - hates that kind of 'mumbo jumbo' as he calls it. But at last he will now SAY that to the IC. But I do hope he does read it.

Anyway - as I say, I am at a loss for what to do. I did LB this morning,he made me a cup of tea and brought it into bed to me, I said 'can I have a kiss' he leant over and pecked me and I said 'and thats the last time i will initiate it' and then rolled over.

I shoudlnt ahve said it - just p'd off that it is ME ALL THE TIME


I KNOW I KNOW

Take it easy - breath - in and out.
SLLLOOOOWWWW DOOOOWWWWNN

I am trying - i really am. I want this to work.

I am just so frustrated.

zuj

Oh Zuj, he sounds like a clone of my WH. Truly he does. Or else it's the way you describe him - I can totally relate to your posts.

He's probably going through withdrawal (are you absolutely sure there is NC?). He has had the end of the A thrust upon him. If it was up to him, despite the guilt, the pain, the heartbreak he has caused, he would still be carrying on with Root. It might go on for some time, but yes, you should start having some of your needs met. Is he possibly tired - too many late nights with the World Cup?

He might not know how to move forward now - might fear rejection. At least he is getting professional help. Mine thinks he's unfixable because nobody could understand him!

Has he had the STD tests and, if so, how long before you can 'proceed'? TT

Zuj, your current sitch is a little out of my realm of experience - AJ was very clingy, but that is unusual. Most, as far as I know, are withdrawn (maybe that's why they call it withdrawal <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) and aloof, so as long as you are sure of NC, that's probably what it is.

It sucks, but just keep on Plan A'ing for now, and be watchful for lapses of contact.

I am not spanking you for this, not even one little bit, because I probably would have given in to my frustrations, too, but the next time he does something for you - anything at all - be very enthusiastic in your thanks, and don't ask for affection.

My gut is that you should continue to be affectionate toward him, expecting nothing in return. Difficult and painful, I know. Don't be pushy, just consistently affectionate, and if he doesn't start to respond at least a little within a couple of weeks, it may be time to do some digging.

If you have passed the first round of STD testing, just get a nice package of condoms and seduce him one of these nights. Even if it is hard, it will reassure him. Be as playful as you can, making it obvious you still find him desirable.

Baby steps, yesiree! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

One can only hope... It'd be sort of pointless, otherwise, wouldn't it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Honestly, and she makes her living with words!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

t&l

It seemed a little awkward, but I had already used difficult. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Even if it is...trying, annoying, frustrating, triggering, causative of a struggle...do it, and you will come out on top.

ROFLMAO!!! Yes - your 2nd one is just as good Neak!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

How are you doing, hunny?

Hi TT,
I didn't have a chance this morning to sit down and answer your post.

Yes I am absolutely sure there is NC. In fact - there is NC btwn him and her - however she bloody msged ME again the other day!!!! TRUE!!!

She said, last ummm.....Monday I think it was.... "Hi Justine, how are ya, hope ya well. Sorry to ask, but where was your husband last night?'

Well - to say I was shocked was an understatement!!!

He was at home, and I wrote so and I asked why.Apparently she has now moved in with the other man and there was a nasty note left on their car in the morning. Now she said "our" car (it is his car that he is v v proud of - rev head apparently) same as she's moved into HIS aparetment which she called 'our appartment.

I wrote to her 'As far as Im aware Mark still thinks you live at PP, have you todl him otherwise, have you been in contact with him since the 'accident' last week.'

Her response was 'no, he doesn't and no I haven't. Dont worry about it, sorry to bother ya - must have just been kids.'

HOW DARE SHE WRITE TO ME - but OMG how cool that she is so paranoid! ROFL!!!!

There is no way I am telling M (at this stage) that she wrote to me - will just send him back again. However, I did forward the msgs to a friend to 'keep safe' for me, in case I need them as proof in the future.

I mentioned it to Marks boss when I was chatting to her last night and she couldn't believe it. Apparently Root has been emailing work left, right and centre, trying to find jobs - stupid thing is that everyone in the office (as in state wide) now knows her name and to steer clear of her! lol

good good good

Now - I agree totally with you that if it was up to him he would still be with Root, I have written as much to him in an email. He is def tired - re the world cup - the last 24 hours he has been much better.

I agree about the fear of rejection too (we sound very similiar TT!) I also wrote THAT in the email to him (before reading your post).

I am lucky that M will go to see a psych - but he does think it's mumbo jumbo. Hasn't looked at his 'homework' yet - goes back on Monday.

He hasnt' had the STD tests done yet - still has the referal in his bag. I mentioned the other day if he'd had it done and he said he has to book into it. I mentioned today 'can u ring and book in for MOnday - we'll be over that side of Sydney anyway.' He said 'oh, yeah' but didn't today.

We are going to the movies tonight. He is much better today - and last night he was much better too. Much better means that I am getting acknowledged! LOL!

Must go, am trying to get this written whilst he is up playing xbox and kids are watching a dvd. But there are just too many distractions - so if this post doesn't make sense - I blame them! LOL

zuj

I made M read this post over on the recovery board tonight. I had 'tried' to have a talk to him this mornign and got the very non-commital responses that I often get. I said "I know that you have problems talking M, and I corner you in the mornings, but night time you are drugged up on your ADs and it's no use speaking to you then.

Anyway, I felt quite down after our 'talk' (which again was very one sided - me asking all the questions and gettting the monosyllabic answers) so came on here to read some posts over on the recovery board before I took the kids off to watch M play soccer (he had already left on the bike)

I read one about 'radical honesty and transparancy' and I thought 'stuff it, Im gonna make him sit next to me tonight and read this out to him'.

So, I raced home from soccer, had the kids fed and in the bath by the time he got in the door. I said to him, can u come down here, I wanna read you something before I chicken out. You know how I use words like 'transparency and fog and withdrawral, and you know how Ive been reading alot of the internet etc whilst all this is going on' and he was nodding 'well, its on this board called MB and listen to this....

And I read him KJs post.

""7142,

Well, I can't guarantee success, but if it's any consolation, the NC plan helped me to feel very accountable for my actions. I am like your H in that I don't like to see (or hear) people get hurt. When you get further into recovery, you begin to come out of the fog and realize the OP isn't hurting, it's YOU who are hurting. You also begin to realize that you will continue to hurt as long as you hang onto ANY part of the fantasy. It becomes clear that your eternal happiness lies with the ones who truely love you; your family.

Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------

Withdrawl stinks and the fog stinks too!!


------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, it sucks, for both spouses. Good news is, it doesn't last long if you are sincerely making an effort to recover using the MB principles. I know I must sound like I'm selling MB stock, but seriously, if you go by EVERY principle of Dr. Harley's, I can't imagine failure occuring. Radical Honesty, IMO, is the one principle many couples do not follow closely enough. I've said this before, but you and your H need to be absolutely TRANSPARENT to each other, ALL of the time, regarding everything from what is your favorite color, to how many times did you have sex with OW? (ouch )

Your H WILL get more assertive with his communication as time goes on, as long as he practices radical honesty.

Take care,

KJ""

I then said to him, so, if expect you to be totally transparent then I should be too. I got a msg from Root the other day. Well he nearly fell over! He said 'WHAT' and I told him what she had written to me and he was gobsmacked. I said "I wasn't going to tell you, but do you see, reading this, why I have felt I needed to.' and he said 'yes'.

And things have been better tonight. Not great - but better. Mind you, he is now dead to the word on the lounge and I said I'd wake him at 2am ready for the soccer!

So I am hoping that that makes a difference. I have tried to get him to read specific threads that I emailed to him, but looking at the 'history' of IE I know he hasn't = as yet. So at least, when I bring stuff up at the MC on Tuesday night he will know what I am talking about.

Anyway - just wanted to share.

zuj.

Very good baby step, Zuj. You should also make clear what you have done to block contact from her in the future, so you both are in NC. That way he can't use that as a lame-o excuse to get back in touch with her. "I had to make sure you were treating her ok." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

That one didn't work for me, either.