Of all the things you mentioned, the only one I think you should say is simply, "It hurts me that you don't wear your wedding ring anymore." Don't say the rest about having given up, because in his mind, he has. He thinks it's you that just doesn't get it. Time will show him how wrong he is, but your reminders need to be with actions, not words.

As to helping out in the mornings, if you demand it like that, he will resist just to be contrary, and go around the rest of the morning thinking how happy he is to be away from the nagging. (Of course it is not nagging, but he will take it that way.)

Back up to square one. When he arrives, ask him if he can help iron and start breakfast for the kids. Say please, and smile at him. Tell him you appreciate his help, and that it means so much to the kids to get to spend this extra time with him.

And if he turns stinky about it, I would recommend just doing it yourself without comment, or at least no more than a surprised, yet neutral, "Oh! I thought you were going to do that. Well, come on, kids, let's go [whatever he didn't do]."

Besides, if you put on a keylogger and let him play on your computer in the mornings, you may find out some helpful info.

You've got to pick your battles, and save your energy for the big things that really count. Honestly, I'm surprised he has been doing as much as he has. Most WS, mine included, seem to forget during the A that they even have children, much less responsibilities around the house.

Also, don't keep on him about coming home. Once in a while, like every week or two, mention that you miss him and that you wish he would come home, but you don't want him to feel that you are pressuring him, or working up to an ultimatum.

Even in my PBL (well, the first one) I made it clear, "I am not making you choose. You can take as long as you like to choose between us, but in the meantime I am making this choice for myself." He needs enough rope to hang himself. If you make the rope too tight, he will run farther away.

Now, if you can be light and fluffy, just taking a happy little stroll down memory lane, you could reminisce about your first date. "Wow, can you believe it's been exactly ___ years since our first date? I still remember that we watched Misery, and that I clung to you, pretending to be scared." **tinkling laugh** "We were so young and cute then..." But then turn the subject and resist the urge to become morose and clingy.

Memories have a lot of power, but when you bring them up it needs to be in a cheerful, nonthreatening way. Being clingy and needy will drive him away, but being attractive and strong will awaken urges to be with you more, even if he does not act on them at the time. This will lead to his becoming even more conflicted and angry, but that is good because that downward spiral will eventually lead to the implosion of the A.

Remember, there is nothing that you, or anyone else, can do to end the A. No single memory, no amount of MC, no questioning, no logic, no love and tenderness, none of that alone will bring it to an end. They will contribute to its downfall, and put you in the best possible place for recovery, but it is still a process that takes time. The disease has to run its course, and there is little except exposure that will run it along any faster.

Keep being strong. Remember, you are the sane one right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok - so what's a keylogger? See WH is the IT expert, not me. IN fact I am very worried that he has found this thread cause stupid me, in all my misery and stress, I wasn't cleaning the history. So he could well have sent himself the link to work and be checking it.

Mind you. Really, it just shows how much I love the stupid bugger.

Today I went to my GP - which is more like a counselling session, so I came out nice and strong. And low and behold there is a msg from WH saying 'Am really struggling today! Just v flat and tired.One month till holidays! Am thinking of going away somewhere by myself for a couple of days to do sweet bugger all.'

I wrote back and said 'Yeah, those days are hard, had one yesterday. 2day Im better tho. Maybe u can take ur golf clubs and go find some course to vege at in your holidays?'

He wrote back straight away to say 'Not a bad idea! By the way, you looked good this morn. Just want u at least to eat small bits so u dont get physically ill, ok!'

Like BLOODY ******! Thanks for noticing but grrrrr. I guess at least he DID notice?! And I wasn't even dressed up, just jeans and a soccer top (maybe it was the soccer top? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He msged my sister today and said 'I know you probabally dont wanna hear from me, and wont forgive me for a long time, if ever but I just wanted to wish you a happy birthday'.

Well actually, it was my OTHER sisters birthday, at that was 2 days ago! lol!

So my sis was thinking 'Hmm,should respond' but has decided at this stage, not to.


Neak, thanks so much for your response. I know I shouldn't be pressuring about coming home. Sometimes it just blurts out before I can stop it. Thats why I said about him 'going away' in his holidays. He will PROBABLY go up to her (because she will probably be up in Ncstl by then) but perhaps that is for the best. It is one month away - which means I will hve been doing plan A for exactly 2 months. So that would mean that Plan B could happen kinda, as he is still getting paid but has left. IYKWIM.

Perhaps the lack of the daily (or almost daily) visual contact with the kids and me and the constant contact with her will be enough to allow the disease to run it course?

I have booked into a local welfare counsellor for tomorrow morning. Free - thank god. And Im lucky, my Dr is medicare (we have free healthcare here in Australia).So 2 days in a row I am going to be able to have someone to talk to. And tomorrow especially I am glad to have it.

If he thinks he's flat today - god help him tomorrow I'd say. But, as someone said, she has probably gotten something BIG planned for tomorrow night especially to use against me/him seeings as it is our anniversary.

Damn, I think I have a mouse under the fridge! Keep hearing clicking noises.... off to investigate.

He even said to teh psych it's not really the sex with her, just the escape from reality. SO HE KNOWS IT>


Well he has to face reality sometime

Heard this on the radio this morning.

Q. How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?

A Only one - but the light bulb has to WANT to change

Let's hope it's soon Aptiva!

Hi Zuj. Hope the anniversary isn't too awful under the circumstances. TT

Have an anniversary...I promise the next one will be better, one way or the other. (And almost certainly with a new, happier marriage.)

Keep looking ahead, past the hard part.

SICK SICK SICK OF IT!

Life has to friggen go on - that is the problem. I dont want it to go on - especially today. But when even a new bloody counsellor says to me 'you are an incredibly strong woman to be able to cope with all that you have, and to actually face Root and have her throw that in your face at the soccer and react the way you did takes incredible courage'

WOO FLIPPIN HOOO.

Where is the strength when I collapse in a heap on the floor after sorting the washing from teh clothes line because there is no 'daddy' pile.

Where is the strength when I roll over in the middle of the night and it's into my DD7's arms and not my DHs.

Where is the strength when I can't concentrate on a conversation my 4 year old son is having with me about dinosaurs and he just comes up to me and says 'i love u the best in the world mummy' and hugs me.

Where is the strength today - TODAY when Im supposed to be excitingly getting ready for a 'night on the town' because it's our big 10 year milestone and instead Im sobbing over a bloody computer screen.

When I get a message from him at 8.30am that says 'Happy 10th Wedding Anniversary Juz. Wish it was under diff circumstances. Please dont get any sort of gift or anything. Save it for when/if things r sorted out, ok? And dont analyze this msg it just says what it says.' And I receive that msg whilst trying to get the kids breakfast ready and have to leave the room to howl for 5 mins.


I AM NOT STRONG. I am bloody so weak and I can't handle this any day but today I really really can't.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

{{{{{{{{Zuj}}}}}}}}}} Sorry, I know this is so hard.

Well first things first, you had a confrontation at soccer??????? Did you already post it and I missed it, or did it just happen? Wow!

Now as to your being strong, you got up this morning, didn't you? You are walking through the fires of ****** and you haven't killed either of the people who are responsible, right? That right there ought to qualify you (and all the rest of us, too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) for a medal at the least. The Amazing Faithful Spouse Award.

You and I could argue all day long about whether it is worse to wake up to an empty bed, or to jump under the covers really quick at 2am and pretend to be asleep because you know your husband has just come to you from his mistress' bed and now is crawling into yours, and you're afraid that if you say one word you will start screaming at him and not be able to stop. (Astute readers may detect a bias. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

My point is that it is not possible to have a My Pain Is Bigger Than Your Pain contest. It's all excruciatingly unbearable, whether they move out or stay, whether they act totally insane all the time or only part of it. It's like trying to argue that one infinity is bigger than another infinity. You are amazing and strong for just being yourself, and for being willing to go through this agony for the hope of the new marriage that is waiting for you on the other end of this.

No matter what happens, you will be able to look back without regret. You were faithful to your vows. You went above and beyond everything you promised to do. You fulfilled your sacred contract even after it had been broken by another. He, on the other hand, will have regrets that last a lifetime, even when he comes back to you. He will look back with shame on the person he once was.

The pleasures of sin last such a short time, and there is a huge price to pay for them after. Someday soon, you will be curled up next to your husband in bed, still hurting but satisfied that your efforts finally paid off. While he lies there in the dark trying to put aside dark images of his betrayal of the one person he loved most. While she clings to the toilet, vomiting because she has been abruptly abandoned.

A BS does feel the most pain, but out of the 3 members of this unholy triangle, it's the only position I would ever be willing to fill.

I got censored again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Zuj - at least he acknowledged the day and has kept the lines of communication open throughout this A. I do feel like he NEEDS to 'chat' with you.

Sorry you were feeling so down yesterday. The highs and lows after an A are relentless. ((Zuj)) TT

Zuj,

I agree with TT - it's good he is keeping contact with you. My feeling is that if he were ready to move on, he would not be in contact, particularly on your 10 yr A.

My heart goes out to you. It hurts so much but I too would not take another position in this triangle. You are the one who can hold your head up high with pride. But I know pride doesn't keep you warm at night.

All I can say is that I had a similar sitch with my son's 18th Birthday in March. It crushed me that my H was not there where he should be and I kept having to excuse myself to go cry so I wouldn't ruin my son's night. I felt completely hopeless and felt things would never be right again. But one week later, my H came home and we are in recovery. Don't lose hope. Be strong and keep doing what you are doing. Root will lose.

Take care.

Nkay

I remember you saying Neak that it would get worse before it got better. Well, I think yesterday was definately a 'worse' for both of us.

He msged me yesterday afternoon to say he had had a very very low day, lowest ever and that the night before he had 'accidently' spent $118 at a restaurant (by himself) and before he knew it he'd had 2 bottles of wine and 2 courses (money we can ill afford but I didnt mention that) and how he is such a ****** and he can't believewhat he has done with me and that he knows i have forgiven him but I will never ever trust him again.'

etc etc etc

Then this morn he rang me again and said that he had had v good chat with woman from work on way up to work site today and she told him he has to a) get into IC and b) go away for a week or so on his own in his holidays and work out what he is doing.

He has now msged me to ask me would I meet him in the city tonight for dinner and a chat - not too heavy but a chat. I know that ROOT is out tonight- and I so want to say to him him 'why am I only good enough when Root is unavailable'. And I probably will say it! lol

I actually did something naughty last night. I got the kids to stay at mum and dads and at 4am I drove into the city and found his work car and I put a card under the wipers. It took me half an hour to find his car!! God knows what I must have looked like prowling around in my car! LOL

But I had found this card that was so perfect. My WH loves golf and it was this card that said 'In golf as in life it's the follow through that makes all the difference'.

And I remembered what you said Neak about how powerful memories are. So I wrote inside it, happy and sad memories from the past 10 years of us.

He was v shocked this morning.

Ok - so tell me what I should do tonight??!!!

TT and Nkay - thanks so much for the hugs. I really NEED them atm. I did try to explain to WH today on the ph that the trust thing has to come from ME, and he can't say I will never trust him again, that's something I have to work out for myself. But at this stage I WANT to be able to trust him again.

Neak - the soccer confrontation was the day I found out about the A. I took DS to go watch him and SHE was there. And she sat down quite happily next to me chatting about MY children. And it was the way she said something that suddenly made me twig and so I asked her outright and she said 'the sex was so good she can't even remember when it all started'. B!tch. But I have then found out that it had started around the 23rd Feb, and she only came to work at the office at the start of Feb.

Zuj - if you go, be prepared for some very fogged up crap that might hurt you a lot.

Do you really believe OW wasn't with him in the restaurant last night and that he spent all that money on himself? And do you really think he wants a week away alone or will she be in the picture?

Trust is something he has to earn by consistent behaviour. At the moment, you MUST doubt him. WS's are liars and cheats. Trust only yourself until the A is over, he is living back at home and has proven over time that he can be the husband and father you all deserve. TT

And here's another hug because my anniversary is coming up and I don't know how to handle it, other than to ignore it! ((((Zuj))))

Well, regarding the restaurant TT, I do believe him, because he told me that he had gotten off the ph from me after soccer, gone into HER house and found her curled up on the lounge asleep. She had heard from her mum that her dad was sick again and she just wanted to be left alone so he went for a walk. Decided to go into a coffee shop for coffee and ended up ordering meal etc.

Now - regarding the week away alone - Well yes - depends on WHERE he goes doesn't it! he did say again yesterday that root has job in Ncstl. I guess what I WANT to ask him is does he expect me to hang around until she is gone because I could well NOT be here when she is gone.

And I will quote you on the trust issue - THANKYOU. I will say to him again about how he can't say I wont trust him that and then quote what you have said.

I know there will be fogged up crap tonight. I KNOW I KNOW. But I really want to see him. I haven't seen him since Tuesday <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

And I do know that we have to talk about stuff - other stuff, like money etc and I think HE is thinking that it is a more neutral environment than here.

He is still coming tomorrow morning to take DS to dancing, and tonight I will ask him if he can spend Sunday with us because the kids haven't had any time with him except for the pick up and drop offs for school - which hardly count as 'daddy time'.

And ((((TT)))))) will your WH remember your anni do you think?

It will be v hard to drive back home tonight without him though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> And you didn't manually strangle her on the spot? You have class, woman! Not to mention iron self-control.

For tonight...as always, look and act your best. P l e a s e don't ask him why you're only good enough when she is unavailable. That is not the strong, confident image you need to portray.

LISTEN to what he has to say. If he wants to chat about trivial stuff, do that. If his idea of chat is to have a bit of R talk, just listen. Then, when he starts winding down, say something like, "That's all very nice, but there isn't much sense talking about it while she is still in the picture."

If he brings up that you won't be able to trust him any more, come back to the same little song. "Of COURSE I can't trust you while she's in the picture. Get rid of her for good, and you will be amazed how quickly you can earn my trust back."

In this way, you gently but firmly let him know what you expect from him. This is the early stage of negotiating NC. It seldom works by itself, but it sets the stage for Plan B, and for an eventual recovery.

At whatever point he is willing to go to NC, then you start talking about the precautions and boundaries, and all the changes you will both have to make to safeguard yourselves. By the time he is willing to NC, he may also be willing to come on here and post. If not, put out a holler for advice and share the responses with him. If he is truly recommitted, he will be willing to do whatever it takes.

He will need to sense that it is you deciding to take him back, more than him deciding to come back.

I say this now, just in case. I don't think he is ready to come back yet, though I'd lay dollars to donuts that he's having second thoughts. But I also know from personal experience that you have to be ready all the time, because it can happen without warning. Whenever it does, take your time.

(I spent all my time after I found MB working to bust up the affair, figuring I would have several months of Plan B in which to study up on recovery. It didn't work out that way, so I have to recommend being ready for anything, any time.)

Everything you are describing from him is a very, very good sign. The more doubts he has, the less pleasant A-land is. The less pleasant A-land is, the more doubts he has. And so on. The spiral keeps getting tighter and tighter, until kablooie! Chocolate everywhere!

Awesome job with the good memories. Take a little time to reminisce with him every now and again throughout Plan A. Jog his foggy memory. AJ specifically mentioned the (many) cards I gave him as being a part of what helped him come back. Keep up the good work - your marriage is soooo far from over.

I love you Neak!! THANKYOU!!!!! You're last sentence has me bawling my eyes out!!!

I agree with you - I dont *think* he's ready to come back yet either, but the signs of doubt are there well and truly. I actually got a XO on the end of a text last night or today (can't remember).

And yes - 'of course I can't trust you while she's in the picture' is such a good line. Just gotta remember all these great lines when the time comes.

Just went up to see what i should wear. Gonna look great but casual. Gotta act with C L A S S. And hey - I can do it - did it with b!tchface, i can do it with the man I love.

When u said Neak that AJ mentioned to you about the cards being part of what helped him come back. Well that is why my sister msged him yesterday.

She hasn't for weeks. He has every so often. Then she said to me yesterday; 'what if he is testing the waters, what if he is looking for a lifeline?'

So she msged him 'the human heart has such a huge capacity for forgiveness Mark, don't forget that. I miss not being able to talk to you.' And that was that. He wrote back to her about how much that meant to him, thankyou so much.

So perhaps that is something else that may help through the fog?

I have to go and try and write a 21st speech now, for tomorrow night. A 21st I have to go to alone <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

OK....

I am dressed. I look great (if I do say so myself! lol!) I fit into pants that I haven't worn since, well, to tell you the truth, Ive never worn! lol! nice and casual but dressy and elegant. They are my sisters! Im wearing her top too! lol! Things that dont fit her anymore!

I think I weighed more than this when I was married and although this HAS NOT been the right way to lose weight it is the only positive in this [email]h@ll[/email] of an existance I am living in atm!

Now - I have stood in front of the mirror for 20 mins and told myself 'YOU ARE NOT A DOORMAT. YOU ARE THE SANE ONE. YOU CAN GO OUT AND SHOW YOUR WH HOW WONDERFUL HIS WIFE IS.'

The kids are sad that they aren't coming out to see daddy but I said that we were going out for dinner to do some talking, and they are excited about going to the babysitters anyway.

Now I need to continue to chant my mantra the whole way into the city (45min drive) and show my WH that my DH is NOT gone forever, that HE can get through this.

I know I mustn't get my hopes up. I KNOW he won't be back yet. But if it just plants those seeds, fertilises them just a little bit - then something has come of it. And, to be totally truthful, I am glad to have a night out with my H, I miss him so.

Where ever you are - say some prayers for me please. For me to be strong and for WH to see the light.

In light and love,

J