Ok. Things haven't really moved on - as such.

I know that most of it IS the depression. He is to be re-evaluated at the GP next week and his meds changed again.

We had our first MC session. Pretty crappy - i knew it would be because it was gonna be a 'fill in' on what has happened for the last 6 weeks.

I can see that for a few sessions at least that the MC is gonna be IC for him with me sitting in!! But if that 'works' and has him address issues I guess it's worth it.

I was gonna post on here and ask 'do you think I should give him the Emotional Needs Survey'. But I really think I do know the answer to that already. I dont think he's ready and my answers are all in the 'negative' atm cause it is all 'give give give.'

Dont get me wrong, I am not miserable - far from it. We are having some good times. But it is still walking on eggshells and it is still me doing 99.9% of EVERYTHING. From kids to house to conversation.

He was very good yesterday - it was a good day> Went and played golf with his mate adn then we went out shopping - retail therapy works for him! LOL!

He actually 'touched' me last night without me grabbing his hand first!

That is what I am missing the most.

M was the most touchy/feely person. So much so that sometimes it bugged me. He would automatically, have his hand on my leg whilst he was driving, or while we were on the lounge watching tv. He would be draped over me in the morning or part way through the night.

Now he doesn't even touch me as we brush past.

I have spoken to him about this and he says he doesn't know why.

Friends who have suffered severe depression have said they felt the same way.

If i knew it was the depression it would be easier to cope with it - but Im scared it's me. Im scared it's the 'guilt' or him 'not wanting' to touch me.

ANyway - it sounds like Im having a bad day and it hasn't been, its just I can 'let it all out' here.

Hugs
zuj

It's still so close to his breakdown that I wouldn't worry about it. Hopefully the new meds will work and he will become his old self.

Hang in there. I know this is very hard on you.

I think as long as you keep checking for contact and there is none, the rest will sort itself out with time.

If he becomes more affectionate, and then slides back into this withdrawn pattern, it would be more worrisome than if he just hasn't gotten back to himself yet. Or if it goes on like this for many months. But it's early days yet.

Long time no chat.

Things not much improved. He is still majorally depressed. Supposed to be changing his ADs, but the Dr didnt do it yesterday - so it will wait at least another week..

But he is still at home and he isn't contacting Root - as far as I can tell - and Ive been looking for signs. I dont have the password to his email though - but he rarely checks it, once or twice a week, so if she was emailing him I am sure he would be checking it more than that.

We have our 2nd MC appointment tonight.....

I have been on quite a few depression websites and boards - OMG - they are just exactly what M is saying and doing! The really scary thing is that it's 18months to 2 years to get back on track. So we have that length of time for the depression, and that length of time for the 'recovery' of the affair - GOD I HOPE I CAN BE STRONG ENOUGH TO HOLD THROUGH IT ALL.

At the moment Im ok - I have my moments of doubt - alot of self doubt atm, as it is me initiating 99.9% of everything about anything. I read on a board the other day 'Ive come to the realisation that I am no longer in a loving mutual relationship but have become a carer instead' and that sums my situation up to a T at them moment.

Anyway, I have to go off for a 'Grammar' meeting this afternoon. Every Tuesday arvo this term - fun fun fun!

I will try and sit down late tonight and write out what I remember of the MC. As much as you may not wanna read it lol! It helps me later when I forget things or am numb.

Hugs
Zuj

Hi Zuj,

Thanks for the update. Funny how when your giver ends up being more of a caregiver than a mate, it no longer sets well with the BS. It's a turning point for you. You are worth more than that. Look forward to your future posts.

take care,
L.

Hi Zuj, I'll be looking for your next post. I can't imagine how hard it would be to combine recovery with severe depression.

Orchid is right, you are worth more than what he is giving you. That doesn't mean you just rush to divorce or anything, but be thinking about what you need in recovery, as it is just as important as his (rather overwhelming right now) needs.

At some point, and the sooner the better for your sake, this needs to become a more equal partnership where you get to take, as well as give.

It's taken me a week to reply. I was so drained after last Tuesday.
Yet again I did most of the talking. I must admit it felt good, but still, it's not supposed to be just me talking in there.

I so dont think he is ready for MC. Its not that I dont think he WILL be ready, Im not giving up on 'us'. I just dont think that at this point in time his brain can handle it. He is barely making it through 'thinking' at all.

Orchid - it is very hard. I love him so much, and he knows it. I have had a 'bad' weekend. We went to a place that was always full of joy and a 'happy family' place for me on the weekend (that sentence was so bad! UMMAH!)

Anywya, we all went. the last time we were all there was in the xmas holidays, it was lovely.
SUnday should have been lovely too - except that I all I had running thru my mind was that the last time that M was there was with Root. The day that i had the bad reaction to the first lot of ADs and he was 'out with the mates from work' and he msged me from there, leaving one pub and going to another and was 'sleeping in the car' that night - of which was all BS - he was out with her and slept with her.

I was msging him because I was so unwell and he wouldnt answer his phone and then he told me in a text that it was too noisy in the club so he couldnt talk. God I am such an idiot - why didnt I see that for what it was.

SO all of this was going thru my mind on Sunday. And it should have been a great day, it was a great place, and we were having fun with the kids - but I just felt sick and depressed and sorry for myself all day.

Didnt help that I tried to wake him 'nicely' that morning and he said 'Ive got to go to the toilet' and so he did, then got straight into the shower. Now if THAT aint a rejection - what is.

I mean, ok - I know that he is worried about us 'being intimate' but come back in and tell me 'Im not ready for this' or 'I can't do this yet' or whatever. Dont not say anything.

BTW - definately no contact with OW. So Im not worried about that. Well, of cours Im worried, but its not what I am thinking all of this is about.

I seriously think he is too scared to 'forgive' himself because he 'likes' (and that's the wrong word but I cant think of the right one) punishing himself for what he has done.

anyway -this is full on rambling - sorry!

He goes back to work next week. .... [censored]!! He is so scared - so am I.

He will only be going back part time at the start, and using sick leave for the other days. There is no way he will cope with full time. He has to have a meeting on Wednesday with the OHS people and his bosses to organise his workplan.

Anyway. Hugs to all

zuj

Sounds like u both need closure. This is an act where you both do something symbolic. For me it was going to the ocean and yelling out my fears. I figuratively threw them away.

When H came back, we did the same again at the ocean. When he was a WS, he took OW to Yosemite (his favorite place in the world). That's a trigger for me. I still shiver when I see 1/2 Dome. Unfortunately I also saw the hotel receipt where they signed in as Mr/Mrs..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, the closure will help both of you.

take care,
L.

FALSE RECOVERY

Can't write any more atm

Too angry

Too scared

Huge fight on Tuesday night when Root contacted me to say that M had tried to contact her thru her mother (just to say goodbye properly)

Quote WS "Im in his face all the time. I send him emails that say blah blah blah, just like the IC. Can't I just shut up and leave him alone."

So I have........

Other than I came *THIS* close to saying fu<k off and sort your friggen head out. I even handed him a list of one bedroom apartments.

He said 'Sometimes I dont want to play happy families"

PLAY>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Im sorry - but you're not PLAYING - it is DOING. We have 3 children. Do you think I always WANT to be woken up at 6am to 'mummy mummy mummy' but if that was ripped away from me, I'd die. Hence the reason I think I need to rip it away from him.

Not gonna know what he is missing till it's truly gone. But its a huge step.

Not ready for it yet. Gotta be angrier and more in control (if that makes sense)

Haven't been 'near' him since that Tuesday. Been very 'nice' but nothing at all 'us' related and all has been well. In fact we were at a friends party last night and I got p!ssed and had a lovely time and was in the hot spa at 2am in a swimming costume I haven't worn in 15 years. I FELT GOOD. Plus I had men (my friends hubbies) laughing and joking with me and M was just standing there watching and looking morose and I thought - GOOD. Can you see that other people DO enjoy being with me.

Then, as we were leaving M comes up to me and puts his arms around me and kisses me and says 'shall we go now'. First time he's touched me in ..... who knows how long.

So Ive gone back to the adage 'Treat em mean - keep em keen.'

I knew I'd read how they slip back in and out of the fog. Far out Orchid man did I need your RB on Tuesday night - you should have HEARD the [censored] he was spinning me - and even HE knew it was [censored] because he would contradict it himself 2 minutes later.

Anyway - he is off picking up a jacket he left at our friends and will be home soon.

I am VERY VERY VERY scared about MC on Tuesday night. I dont know what to do/say/act.

No wonder he told a friend he didnt think IC and MC was working for him - he wasn't wanting them to work - was still thinking that Root would solve the problems.

Oh TT - if you're out there - I just kept thinking of your WH the other night. Everythign was so like what you have said re your sitch.

Must go and 'empty' the history now. Got lots more to day - will share the email he sent to Roots mother when Im in a stronger state of mind. Root sent it to me. M doesnt know that, he just knows she texted me about it, and I told him to get it up on his computer and show me what he sent - which he did.

Anyway - I am rambling.

zuj

Zuj, am in Liverpool right now in local library for my 'fix'! So very sorry to see your stupid man falling backwards. My humble opinion is that he needs a dose of life without the trimmings you provide. He thinks the only thing that will make him feel right is Root. Can't envisage never contacting her again.

One very good thing is that she told you about his attempt to contact her. I hope to God she is not playing games with you. He has literally lost his mind over a woman and I reckon your recovery will be an incredibly long-haul.

Zuj, I would just try to ignore him. Do a complete 180 and be disinterested and indifferent to his needs for a while. Give yourself a time limit and see if it awakens in him a need to be with you. You signed up for a marriage - a partnership. You're in danger of ending up with a fourth child not a husband. He is wallowing in his self-induced misery without a care for your feelings (my WH has never, in 2 yrs, asked how I feel - it's all about him).

I'm glad that you had a great time in the hot tub enjoying the attention of other men, but remember, sexy swimsuit or not, your self-image should not be dictated by this sick man. Look after yourself but don't run circles around him trying to please him anymore. You've done that for a while and it got you precisely nowhere. Look after yourself Zuj and take care of your kids. And yes, I think that to treat them mean keeps them keen in many marriages and I hope it works for you! TT

Wait a minute he tried to contact the OW via her mother to give her a NC note? You didn't know about this?

Hm.... how is he explaining this one or is root making it up? Remember the OWs are on t/b trusted either but when they get desparate sometimes they stretch the truth. I know PBR did. Her speciality was to mix up the dates and times. In her e-mail to me in August 2003, she wrote about stuff they did and said back in Feb 2001. Stupid OW. I had the e-mail where she copied it from. Dumb broad. But that didnt' mean there wasn't contact. There was but not as juicy as the one in Feb 01 so she 'improvised'.

Thinking I'd be dumb enough to NOT find out the truth, she thought and even told the WS that he was being kicked out. (I was over 2000 miles away at my parents house).

Well because I was not completely thrown for a loop, I was more of a raging BS with plan B itching to jump out. I pulled it out and whacked them both silly. Ending result, she filed RO charges and we ended up in court where she got the distinct pleasure of having to lie to the judge with me sitting there knowing the truth. Even the temporary judge didn't believe her. Guess my presence made her neverous. She tried to smile and wave to me.....what a wacho. I am only sorry I didn't trip her on the way out of court. LOL!!! She had passed right by me and I didnt' know it. H neverously let me know. I said, 'really, didn't even feel her presence.' That's when I realized her hold over me no longer existed. She was just a piece of trash. Something, something strong put a wall between us. I swear I didn't see her coming up the ramp and there was no way I could have missed her.

I know it was for my own protection because if I had seen her outside of court, I know what I would have said....my reverse babble skills were quite good by then and it just would have slipped out. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now, don't be afraid fo the MC on Tuesday. Go in, listen and respond to their questions. Carry some tissue but know you have nothing to hide. ok?

Let him squirm. He knows he doesn't have that hold on you the WS in him thought he had. He knows. That just means his hurt will be less until it disappears.

The WS is dying and your H is trying to come out. Let the MC help with that process. If you still want your H after all that, it's up to you. Until then be patient, pray for a clear mind, calm heart and RB as you need. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hugz,
L.

Not too much to add after TT and Orchid's good advice, except to say, remember, you can go back into Plan B at any time if you want.

By all means, try some 180's and see if it helps. As long as you see results, keep it up.

With Plan B always in your pocket if you need it, you will have strength and energy to channel toward helping your WH break his addiction to chocolate. He just must have not hit rock bottom yet.

I know this is hard, and have been there too, but you will get through this with the same grace you have gotten through everything else, with or without him. (And probably with him.)

Thanks guys.

MC last night was good.

I had gone to my Dr on Monday, haven't seen him for a while. He is my counsellor - is just wonderful. Anyway, I let it all out and he really helped me gather up my strength.

His motto to me for Tuesday night was 'talk little'. To try and make M do the speaking.

So that is what I did.

I walked in and the MC said 'ok so we were here, what has happened in the last 2 weeks.' and M looked at me and said 'you wanna fill him in.' and I said in my nicest voice "ive done so much talking at the last 2 of these sessions, I'll let you have the floor tonight.'

Well he hated it - but omg alot came out! Like he didnt remember WHY we had the fight last week - WTF - how could you not remember. So the MC turned to me and said 'could you help out a little here.' and M said 'Im sure she could give details down to the exact minute.' (which of course I could - but I wasn't THAT specific!).

So I told them about the change in the ADs and how I was very upset with the Dr putting him back on old ones and I went for a walk and when I was gone Root msged me etc etc etc.

Then I left it and said 'Im sure that has prompted Mark's memory - he can take it from here.'

So then boy oh boy oh boy. He said how he just wanted to meet up with Root to say 'goodbye' properly and not end on bad terms because he has never ended a relationship on bad terms before (hah - what about ours!!) and that I had told him to have the email up and waiting when I got home (which he did) and that (and I quote M...)

"zuj read the email and of course specific things stuck out with her, and she ignored other things and so of course she raged about those things."

and the MC said 'what things'

and M said 'about how I still love R, but I still love all of the women Ive gone out with, true I didnt have an affair with them, but J just can't see that I can still have feelings for Root.'

And the MC said 'so did you hear back from her.' and M said 'no' and the MC said 'well you did really - thru J didn't you - so that tells u something doesn't it.'

And M said how he didnt remember what Root had said in msgs to me so I got out my phone and gave them to the MC and then gave them to M to read and the MC was able to see how manipulative Root is/was being and how gullible M is/was being.

Anyway, then the MC turned to me and said 'what bits of the email to Roots mother upset you so much.'

And I said 'well, other than the obvious of him saying that he still loved her and had thought he'd found his soulmate in her, and yet was telling me 2 weeks ago still about how Im the best friend he's ever had. Well, other than that, the bit that where he said ...The day we broke up is the 2nd worse day of my life, only followed by the day I had my massive motor bike accident' (and at this point I turned to M burst into tears and screamed - as Idid the night we fought - NOT THE DAY OUR SON DIED.' and M answered as he did on the night 'I forgot about that'. And I screamed HOW COULD YOU FORGET ABOUT THAT - I LIVE WITH THAT PAIN EVERY DAY.

And then I said, also the bit that really sh!tted me was when he went on at the end of the email about Root's 'puddy tats'. M hates cats, I mean, really hates cats. and yet, in the friggen email he said 'I know Ruthie is missing her puddy tat, I hope that they are all very well.'

Like - WTF - what a childish foggish stupid thing to write.

Then I shut up again!

I also mentioned about how he has now gone back to work, and that she is back there (in a different department - dont START ME ON THAT) and so he could email her easily.

So the MCs 'homework' for us is for me to look after myself and think about myself for the next 2 weeks (I said 'yes, I need to be selfish about me' and he said 'no, not selfish - selfFULL - there is a very big difference' and to M he said 'Now, i can't make you do this, but I dont want you to email R. She has obviously closed the door on this, I know you want closure but you must accept this way as closure. You obviously have huge issues (like YEAH) and before they can be addressed you need to close that door behind you.'

So that was very interesting.

Oh and when the MC had said about how I have to think about me and go out for me etc M said 'I try to make her do that, but she doesn't want to, she wants to do things together or she wont leave.' and I said 'because you tell me you can't handle the kids'. And M said 'well, yes sometimes I can't when they get all ferral and screaming but still, you need time alone.' and the MC said 'you can't handle the kids? This is something that you need to deal with - this is life you know.' and M said 'yes, it is something that my IC and I are working on' (well that is the first I KNEW of that!)

Oh M said sometime during the session about how 'since he has come out of hospital he has just tried to move things along but typical J has to take control of the situation just like always and is in my face'.

And I said later 'yes, I am a bit of a control freak but that was only because it was a rudderless ship and it needed steering somewhere, but one of the things I have stopped since last week was being 'in his face'. I am not writing to him, hugging him, kissing him goodnight - nothing. Let him make the first move - and he did the other night, he came up and kissed me and put his arms around me.'

And hte MC said 'when was that'

and I said 'Saturday night'.

Anyway - there is lots more and I am rambling here and I really have to get some housework done, the place is a mess.
M is at work today so I can get stuck into it and try to take my mind off the fact that although they aren't working in the same office they are still in the same organisation - just a keystroke away.....

zuj

Zuj,

I think you are a saint. Just reading your post made me want to slap him myself. Why is it that we have to deal with sloppy seconds after being put through the wringer by the affair? I know that he is in the fog just as my H was and he will come out and be the great guy he was once. But OMG - enough is enough. You hang in there and take care of you. I hope he realizes one day that he should get on his knees and kiss your feet for putting up with this. My prayers are with you.

Nkay

Oh Nkay - Thanks mate. Its true, I agree. WHy should I have sloppy seconds. But then I think of what he was and hope he can be that again.

Today has been interesting. He has texted me 3 times asking how I am or what Im up to.

I made a point last night saying about it's always about 'him' he never asks what Ive been up to or how I feel etc. So maybe something from the $120 sunk in!! lol!

Must go now, am off to the gym!!! A little bit of MMEEEEEEEEEEE time!!

Zuj

Zuj - I thought Root had moved away - what the bejeebers is she doing still working there? His comment about the worst day of his life just reinforces the "ME ME ME" man he has become.

I hope you are continuing to get the love and support from your friends and family you so badly need. Have you got a plan for if he renews contact again?
((((Zuj)))).

zuj,

If it is any consolation to you, I will admit my H was completely self absorbed while in the fog. He didn't seem to care about anyone but himself. He was concerned as well about leaving "her" on bad terms while he didn't even consider how he left me. Before the A, he was sweet, kind and always very concerned about my feelings. I hung on to that memory, hoping I would see that person again. It took a few weeks with occasional shaky moments but now my H is back. It can happen. The person he was while in the fog will seem like a stranger. I think that you may have done the right thing to take back some of your life. I think he needs to think about how it would be without you. He should realize by now that Root was never there for him. She wasn't willing to weather the storm. You were there and you are certainly weathering the storm of the century!

I will pray that he will find his way back to his old self. Hang in there!

Nkay

How funny, I am glad I am not the only one who felt some violent impulses while reading about his behavior. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, that woman can't stay forever on a visa, can she? I know nothing about that sort of thing.

Your life/healing will be much easier if she goes, but is still possible once he starts carrying his share of the weight. You can't recover you, and him too.

I don't think you should go back into Plan B at this time, but I do think you should keep it in mind as a possibility if he does not begin to improve in the near future. He really does not realize what he stands to lose.

Nkay - that does make me feel better, I must say!

TT - She moved in with the new man but it is still in Sydney. The problem is all these government departments have merged so she is now working for one that is merged with M's one. M's boss had ensured that all of their side new about her and what she was like -so she couldnt get a contracting job, but she (Ms boss) doesnt' know all off the poeple in the other departments and Root slipped through there.

Neak - well - apparently the new man and Root are VERY serious (so the grapevine goes) but I think it's only cause she wants a visa here. She is here now until Decemeber. Whether wedding bells will happen before then so she can get residency - who knows......

I too am not thinking plan b ----yet - but I am certainly doing 'me' things.

yesterday I said to him (he doesnt work Thursdays) 'Do you hvae any plans for today' He said 'no' I said 'Ok, good, well I'll leave DD23mths with you and take DS4 to kindy, I'll go the gym whilst Im out and then visit my friend who has just had a baby. I'll pick up dd7 at 3pm and come home from there and we can go out shopping together if you still want to (he had said he wanted to go late night shopping the day before).

He said 'ok, that's fine'.

So I did! Had a full day from 8 - 3.30 away doing 'me' stuff. WEll - with a 4 year old - but still! And he msged me 3 or 4 times during the day asking what I was doing etc.
and telling me what DD was doing at home.

Mind you - I asked him to do 2 things for me - to plug in the lawnmower (we have a rechargable one) and to take the clothes off the line - and he did NEITHER - GRRRRR. And of course today it is p1ssing down with rain and so the clothes are saturated.

I did say to him as we left for shopping 'you got the clothes off the line didnt you?' He said 'oh no, i forgot'. And i just didnt answer...

Anyway - we have a friends birthday party tomorrow night. Lots of his friends gonna be there too - so it will be interesting, First time we've seen them since 'the incident' Hmmmmmm

Well, off to take the kids to playgroup. They have their gumboots and raincoats on and are very excited to go splashing in puddles! LOL (we dont get alot of rain here in Oz!)

zuj
PS - he asked me about the gym yesterday - shock horror!

Ok - so another day further along the steps to recovery.

He did 'ok' at work.

Came home and it was still pouring and I had the kids almost ready for bed so we spent the night on the lounge watching tv. And I asked him to give me a back/neck massage (as Im SOOO sore from the gym! lol) and he gave me a great one for 40mins. Just wish it could have turned into more, but at least it was a nice massage - ya know.

Then I said 'ok, Im really tired now, thanks for that, Im going to bed.' and I slept right through until 7am this morning - now THAT is a first for I dont know how long. I have been waking at 3am or 4am since - well - since the 19th March I guess.

I got up and he was asleep on the lounge (his new bed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) and I told him to go and get into our bed cause Im up now and have to get the kids ready for dancing. So he will probably sleep all morning whilst I teach - but that is fine.

I wanna tell him, without it sounding like 'i need to tell him' that the massage last night really helped me sleep, thankyou.

But I dont want it to look like I 'need' it. Does that make sense? Probably not hey.

We are going to a dress up 'back to the 60's' party tonight. The whole family are going. Hoping that it is a nice night.


I wanna think that we are 'stepping' forward but I just dont wanna get shattered again like I was a fortnight ago. So badly would I like to email Root and ask her if he's tried to contact her through work -but I wont. She'd most likely lie anyway, and I need to establish NC too - I realise that. Just wish I could 'know' what was/is going on in his mind. But this fortnight is to be 'about me' and I dont want it to look like Im bothered about what is going on in his mind.

Now that DOESN'T make sense! LOL!

Must go and shower and get ready to teach.

Have a good weekend everyone.

zuj